S05.E09: Crisis on Infinite Earths: Part One

[teenj12]

3 hours ago, Starry said:

I would have liked more emotion from Kara after her mom's death instead of her scene with Clark being focused on hope and the Krypton legacy.

Same.

Seeing as the SG writers have done pretty much squat with the fact that Kara's mother survived, I saw this as them finally rectifying the mistake of bringing her back in the first place since they fumbled it so much. 

I mean, she thought she lost her mother in such a horrific way and was separated from her for over a decade, but after Season 3, we don't even see Kara reaching out to Alura. But I guess we're to assume it happens in offscreen-ville. 

Regarding the scene of Kara and Clark, I found that to be one of the biggest highlights of the episode. Someone said this somewhere else, but I absolutely agree that the scene played out as Kara acting like the big "sister" she was always meant to have been. And it helps that Benoist and Hoechlin (sorry if I misspelled any last names) have such a great chemistry as cousins.

[futurechemist]

I wanted to like this episode, but I found it ... messy,

Crossovers have lots of characters, but many of them felt like pinballs.  People were being teleported left and right, and then being sent on vague quests with relatively little explanation.  And then there was a magic science tower with an army of previously unseen shadow demons?  Basically felt to me like just another warehouse fight.

Then there's suspension of disbelief over the antimatter wave, which is really just the plot device wave.  It can go from E38 to Argo38 to the edge of the universe(!) and back to E38 in a few hours?  But Earth and Argo are the only inhabited planets it destroys before it hops over to another universe? (E37 I guess if E1 is its final destination?)  Is it wiping out all live in each universe, or is it targeting Earth and places with an emotional connection to Earth?  How about the home planets to all of those aliens?

Setting - Supergirl takes place on E38, while the other shows take place on E1.  So by the format of the crossover, hour 1 would take place mostly on E38 while hours 2-5 are mostly on E1.  Which meant we had to go through some plot hoops to make it feel like E38 was important while getting the critical E38 characters to E1.  So this hour did kind of feel like a detour where nothing mattered, especially the trip to alt-Star City 2046..  To be fair, I've criticized some of the past crossovers for not involving the Supergirl team beyond Kara - Kara just pops over to E1 to help out Oliver and Barry.  But it kind of feels like that would have been a better approach than the team coming together and utterly failing to stop the destruction of E38.

Deaths won't stick.  This was true for Avengers too.  Did anyone really think that Spiderman/Black Panther/Guardians of the Galaxy would stay dead/snapped after Infinity War?  Especially with their sequel movies coming out?  No spoiler, but I think it's highly doubtful that the Supergirl team is going to relocate to Earth 1 and upend their entire premise halfway through their season, or that the online shows like Titans are cancelled now.  Clearly there will need to be some un-snappening.  Unless the producers of each show are way more bold and creative than I'm assuming.  And as others mentioned, countries have trouble with thousands of refugees, let alone millions or billions (!)

[UNOSEZ]

38 minutes ago, teenj12 said:

Someone said this somewhere else, but I absolutely agree that the scene played out as Kara acting like the big "sister" she was always meant to have been.

That was me... 😁... 

[jmonique]

Rewatching:

If the towers stopped working due to a lack of solar energy to power them, how did Kara and Kal-El still have their powers? Aren't their powers due to our sun?

I'm assuming they went out of their way to declare the 2046 Star City trip a trip to another dimension to explain the Connor Hawke situation that's arisen by reusing the actor on "Arrow"?

If Alternate Universe Old Man Oliver doesn't resurface in a future episode, I don't get why they wasted valuable air time on his emotional damage.

I ducked out of Supergirl last year, but frankly, if the brilliant, genius-level Lena Luthor wasn't smart enough to figure out Kara=Supergirl, that's entirely on her. I get she's all up in her Luthor-ian feels about this, but Kara might as well walk around her offices in a full cape, she does so little to truly protect her identity.

They might as well have called this a Harry Potter crossover, too, given the Dementors.

How did Brainy know to open a portal from future AltUniverse Star City to Earth 1 Star City?

Also also, Brainy is a lot.

Edited December 9, 2019 by jmonique

[Rushmoras]

Spoiler

Guys, guys, guys, don't worry. By the end of this cross-over festival, I guarantee that everything will be back in its place (aka deus ex machina reverse everything), just like everytime. I seriously doubt that any of the major characters will stay dead (considering, for one, Arrow still has two episodes left to go until the end of the season (what they are going to do without their lead star for 80 minutes?) after the Crisis (true, AFAIK, in the comics, Supergirl and Flash dies during these events, but..., as I've mentioned before, neither of the respective shows are ending (apart from Arrow)).

And, for this reason, I better like that the cross-overs would be done after the end of respective seasons of each show; that way, there would be more suspense in everything. Will they really die or not? Now, che-che-che, sorry, I just can't with serious mind think that they will die.

[marketdoctor]

I loved the opening cameos.  Only points not yet noted:

1.  Was Burt Ward's Robin walking Ace?  (Batman's dog; he shows up occasionally in the comics.)  If so, that's a nice touch, unless you realize what happened to them.  This is one of the great six-degrees-of-DCeparation episodes, as a crossover could be.

I'm also glad they got the fan service out of the way early, and with enough of a dark twist that it prepared for the more serious parts of the episode.

2.  I wondered if that was Wil Wheaton (guy with the end of the world sign, if you missed it) reprising one of his other roles, or if it was a new character for the show.  I'd love for Earth-38 also to be The Big Bang Theory universe, and it's that Wil Wheaton who got a call from one of his NASA friends that things were going to go badly, so he tried to warn everyone.  That, or it's the Best. Tabletop. Crossover. EVER.  Those aren't the only two options, of course.

3.  I liked how Supergirl and Superman figured out that solar panels could be temporarily recharged with heat vision.

4.  I liked how Lena tried to draw the line between antagonist and (super)villain--she sees herself as a good person.

I'm also wondering which Arrow dies, and both where and how they're going next, so on those fronts, well played, show.

[dmeets]

I really hope they didn't kill off Ray (and presumably Leo) on Earth-X, but it sure looks like they did. The Arrowverse and CW in general seem to be doing a decent job of lesbian representation lately, not so much on the gay male side though.

Does Harbinger have a role aside from emotionless expositions and warping a select few people across the multiverse? Seems she and Monitor could have done a better job recruiting for their first "last stand" on Earth-38. Cisco's powerless now, but why not bring over Killer Frost, or Laurel, or better yet why only Sara and Atom from Legends when I'm pretty sure Nora and Constantine know a few spells that could have been a big help dispatching those wraiths or whatever they were.

Highly doubt they'd kill off Oliver without Diggle or William around. I know Mia's the favored child (by the showrunners at least), but still.

[Velocity23]

21 minutes ago, dmeets said:

I really hope they didn't kill off Ray (and presumably Leo) on Earth-X, but it sure looks like they did. The Arrowverse and CW in general seem to be doing a decent job of lesbian representation lately, not so much on the gay male side though.

Does Harbinger have a role aside from emotionless expositions and warping a select few people across the multiverse? Seems she and Monitor could have done a better job recruiting for their first "last stand" on Earth-38. Cisco's powerless now, but why not bring over Killer Frost, or Laurel, or better yet why only Sara and Atom from Legends when I'm pretty sure Nora and Constantine know a few spells that could have been a big help dispatching those wraiths or whatever they were.

Highly doubt they'd kill off Oliver without Diggle or William around. I know Mia's the favored child (by the showrunners at least), but still.

The Ray was confirmed to be alive and will be one of the core 4 characters in the tie in comics that take place during Batwoman Act 1.

[wingster55]

‪Why did Oliver mention he sacrificed himself for Barry and Kara? Is that even necessary to say in his “last moments”? And for what? To make the other two feel guilty? Plus it’s not even true. ‬

Never mind the fact that him having an arrow that can somehow stop the Monitor (all the eye rolling), I don’t get why said Monitor didn’t just transport him away instead of trying to reason with him. The amount of stretching they do to make Oliver the bestest hero ever (at the expense of all those with powers) is ridiculous. 

[Bruinsfan]

9 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

With respect to Henry Cavill, Tyler Hoechlin continues to be the best current Clark/Superman.

For me he's the best Clark ever, but he's just not selling me on the Superman aspect. He's hampered by poor production values/costume design and always having to play second fiddle to Kara, but I also think Tyler just doesn't bring the gravitas to the role that Superman needs to be taken seriously.

I haven't been watching this year prior to the Crisis. I assume Brainy has changed his appearance to fit in better (and he's replaced Jeremy Jordan's Winn as the DEO resident tech nerd?), but why the hell is Jesse Rath speaking like Art Fern from Johnny Carson's Tonight Show?

[tessaray]

 I debated watching this in real time - hate the idea that it's split in 2 but they kept me watching with both Burt Ward and Wil Wheaton.  And Sara/Oliver. Anyway, I don't watch Supergirl anymore or Batwoman at all (though I'm dvr'ing with an option to change my mind) but I could follow it, so no complaints there.  

Also wondering if Harbinger and Pariah are permanent changes.  Because I'm all for it if it means less Tom Cavanaugh (I like the actor but  Harrison Wells has worn out his welcome long ago) and totally against it if it means no more regular Lyla in the Arrowverse.  I guess we'll find out eventually. 

[tennisgurl]

There were about a billion cameos, but I was happy to see Spike the alien pet lizard, apparently freaking out about Crisis coming. Awww what a good scary alien boi!

[shantown]

15 hours ago, quarks said:

Is this all just going to get handwaved, or will Supergirl be doing something with it - and if so, how does that fit with Batwoman, which has so far been sticking fairly hard with the grounded vigilante approach?

Arrow started with the grounded vigilante approach too, and that only lasted until the next year when Barry Allen showed up, so my guess is Batwoman was gonna go beyond the basics after not too long anyway! I do like always having that one character who is just like "WTF?!?!" on their first crossover!
 

15 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

Could we see an ending to Crisis that involves bringing in Multiple Ollies to bring down the big bad? Could 2046 Ollie have somehow taken E-1 Ollie's place here?

Thinking back on Sara's speech about how she's known a lot of Ollie's and their all good men, maybe that was a bit of foreshadowing about an Oliver Army coming through to save the day at the end. Though, hasn't Sara only met like 3 Ollie's? And one was a nazi?
 

10 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

I agree. Up to this point, there was this vague "anti-matter wave" threat, but then Lilah- err, "Harbinger"- mentions offhandedly that the Anti-Monitor is sending goons to break the Quantum Tower that staves off the waves. First mention of the Anti-Monitor so far, and it just gets casually dropped, with no follow up.

Then at the very end Nash- sorry, "Pariah"- shows up and says he let the Anti-Monitor loose. Which I take to mean was the entire point of his otherwise pointless appearances on the Flash this season where he spent nearly the entirety of them hanging out in the sewers alone and occasionally in the company of other people who just happen to find a reason to go down there.

Yeah, I was able to follow along because I watch all the shows so had an idea the Crisis was coming thanks to Arrow and The Flash. And it helps that I regularly post/lurk here so I knew a lot of the background info and what to expect. But if I was a casual viewer of any show besides Arrow? Or didn't follow conversation about the shows online? Nothing in this episode would have made any sense. They were zipping way too fast between celebrity cameos and zapping people in and out of earths to let any of the scenes breath. The emotional scenes needed more time to have a real impact and all the scifi scenes needed a second to have the info be explained more / sink in.
 

1 hour ago, wingster55 said:

The amount of stretching they do to make Oliver the bestest hero ever (at the expense of all those with powers) is ridiculous. 

Oliver started this whole world and has been a greater leader to everyone on this team (and everyone on their respective teams). He's had personal relationships with a lot of them and he has been shown to be the most strategic (because he's can't rely on super strength or running really fast). So I don't mind that even if he's not the most powerful he's the most respected and the de facto leader that they're all looking up to.

[bmoore4026]

2 hours ago, Rushmoras said:

  Hide contents

Guys, guys, guys, don't worry. By the end of this cross-over festival, I guarantee that everything will be back in its place (aka deus ex machina reverse everything), just like everytime. I seriously doubt that any of the major characters will stay dead (considering, for one, Arrow still has two episodes left to go until the end of the season (what they are going to do without their lead star for 80 minutes?) after the Crisis (true, AFAIK, in the comics, Supergirl and Flash dies during these events, but..., as I've mentioned before, neither of the respective shows are ending (apart from Arrow)).

And, for this reason, I better like that the cross-overs would be done after the end of respective seasons of each show; that way, there would be more suspense in everything. Will they really die or not? Now, che-che-che, sorry, I just can't with serious mind think that they will die.

Hopefully this all ends without any need to rewrite continuity and mess up history like the comic book story.

2 hours ago, marketdoctor said:

Was Burt Ward's Robin walking Ace?  (Batman's dog; he shows up occasionally in the comics.)  If so, that's a nice touch, unless you realize what happened to them. 

60s Robin got wiped out along with Bat-Hound!?  Noooooo!  Doggie!

Avenge Bat-Hound, Krypto and Rex the Wonder Dog.  Avenge him!!!

[wingster55]

15 minutes ago, shantown said:

Oliver started this whole world and has been a greater leader to everyone on this team (and everyone on their respective teams). He's had personal relationships with a lot of them and he has been shown to be the most strategic (because he's can't rely on super strength or running really fast). So I don't mind that even if he's not the most powerful he's the most respected and the de facto leader that they're all looking up to.

Why didn’t the Monitor not poof him away instantly like with everyone else. 

[Lambsilencer]

34 minutes ago, shantown said:

Oliver started this whole world and has been a greater leader to everyone on this team (and everyone on their respective teams). He's had personal relationships with a lot of them and he has been shown to be the most strategic (because he's can't rely on super strength or running really fast). So I don't mind that even if he's not the most powerful he's the most respected and the de facto leader that they're all looking up to.

Absolutely. It felt very natural to me that, of all the heroes, based on his experience in battle, along with the fact that Oliver stood his ground with all of them without having any kind of superpower, that the other heroes are letting him take the lead. And he has proven more than once that he deserves it.

This crossover, to me, should be some kind of turning point, not only in all those shows, but to episodic television in general. 

I know it probably won't happen, but it would be pretty powerful if this was indeed the last appearance of Stephen Amell as Oliver Queen - and him dying not even on his own show, no less. But "Crisis on Infinite Earth" is such a huge event that you can throw out all the rules, and I mean ALL the rules. 

I would even go that far as to completely mix up the casts at the end. Caitlin now on "Supergirl", Diggle on "The Flash", Sara in Gotham City with Batwoman, and so on, and so on. And the most important part - stick with it, never go back. This would truly be something that would go down in TV history, for sure. And it would do justice to the big comic event that was, and now again, is "Crisis on Infinite Earths".

But, we'll see if they have the guts to go there.

[shantown]

38 minutes ago, wingster55 said:

Why didn’t the Monitor not poof him away instantly like with everyone else. 

In my opinion? Anyone who chooses that haircut is not a good decision maker. 🤣

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

The only real questionable thing for me was in the final minutes - aside from the obvious "oh, 3.5 billion (more) people just showed up on this Earth.".  Which brings up, are the humans among these new 3.5B people all new humans or are most of them doppelgangers of already existing E1 humans??

But the thing that kinda threw me a bit, was yes Oliver was dying, but 'Pariah' comes out with he let the Anti-Monitor loose, but the collective reaction is ....... "Oh.  Ok.  Cool.".  I just thought it funny that after hearing that they'd lost their home, a whole world [+ Argo] and over 4B people, that neither Kara nor anyone else didn't have the slightest bit of an angered reaction - even if just momentarily - to that.

[GHScorpiosRule]

6 minutes ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

The only real questionable thing for me was in the final minutes - aside from the obvious "oh, 3.5 billion (more) people just showed up on this Earth.".  Which brings up, are the humans among these new 3.5B people all new humans or are most of them doppelgangers of already existing E1 humans??

From what I can recall during the show where Barry made a guest appearance (first season), Kara had no clue who Barry or Oliver were--as there was no Flash/Barry or Oliver/Green Arrow on her Earth. So, if the show runners remember that, then these would be all new humans.

Edited December 9, 2019 by GHScorpiosRule

[PWHCHCH]

Anyone else find Ruby Rose incredibly hard to understand ?

I picked up on less than half of what she was saying.

[srpturtle80]

11 minutes ago, GSManiac said:

Anyone else find Ruby Rose incredibly hard to understand ?

I picked up on less than half of what she was saying.

I’ve never had an issue, but I do watch Batwoman so maybe I’m just used to her by now? 
 

I enjoyed it but also it felt super rushed. Arrow is the only show I don’t watch so I didn’t feel an emotional attachment to Oliver, so that scene didn’t hit me that hard. Also how is his daughter around? Is it like the Nora situation over on the Flash and she’s from the future? And where is Felicity? 
 

I was most happy to see Ray and Sarah, as Legends is my favorite of the Arrowverse shows and I hate that they always start mid-season so I’ve been having withdrawals! Can’t wait for the rest of the Legends gang to show up. Also Ray is my fave and it made me extra sad about what the future holds for him over on Legends. 😞 

Looking forward to part two tonight!! 

[jmonique]

5 minutes ago, srpturtle80 said:

I enjoyed it but also it felt super rushed. Arrow is the only show I don’t watch so I didn’t feel an emotional attachment to Oliver, so that scene didn’t hit me that hard. Also how is his daughter around? Is it like the Nora situation over on the Flash and she’s from the future? And where is Felicity? 

It is like Nora. Felicity is in hiding with baby Mia, while Adult Mia, her brother, and Diggle's adopted son Connor have been brought from the future to the past by the Monitor.

[Quark]

The pacing of this episode was extremely fast. If every scene had had a little bit more breathing space, it could have been a lot better.

The Sara scenes with the Oliver from a different Earth on a different timeline were completely pointless. 

Brainy was hilarious.

I really liked Will Wheaton's cameo.

[Primal Slayer]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

From what I can recall during the show where Barry made a guest appearance (first season), Kara had no clue who Barry or Oliver were--as there was no Flash/Barry or Oliver/Green Arrow on her Earth. So, if the show runners remember that, then these would be all new humans.

Except Bruce is on both worlds so there has to be a certain amount of overlap. And with Ray also being Clark on another Earth, Oliver/Barry could be different people on E38. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

From what I can recall during the show where Barry made a guest appearance (first season), Kara had no clue who Barry or Oliver were--as there was no Flash/Barry or Oliver/Green Arrow on her Earth. So, if the show runners remember that, then these would be all new humans.

We can only discern from that that neither Barry nor Oliver had become public superhero figures known to Kara at that point. There still could have been Earth-38 versions of either or both who had yet to show up in their hero guise. There could have been an Ollie Queen who decided that he'd rather hook up with Sara at a swanky Metropolis hotel than aboard the Queen's Gambit and who never became stranded and turned into GA, or an Ollie Queen who played things more mysterious and under the radar, etc. etc.

IMO. there would almost have to be a lot of doppelgangers among 3 billion people. Even if just 1 percent of them are doppelgangers, that is 30 million. 

5 hours ago, jmonique said:

Rewatching:

If the towers stopped working due to a lack of solar energy to power them, how did Kara and Kal-El still have their powers? Aren't their powers due to our sun?

The general approach to Superman/girl's powers is that they are living solar batteries. Even when cut off from yellow sun energy, they generally retain their powers off "reserve," if you will.

So they could be better at storing solar energy than the tower. They fed it solar energy in the form of heat vision, depleting their stores in the process. And once normal skies were going, they were able to power up again.

[Daisy]

I still don't get why Lena is so stupidly mad at Kara and friends, especially that Kara did tell her when she felt ready. 

however this is amazing considering i don't know anything but 1 1/3 seasons of Supergirl. what show is Crisis #2? Batwoman? 

[tennisgurl]

You know, its all kind of lost in the drama of Oliver's (alleged, hello denile my old friend) death, but a TON of people died last night when the multiverse started tearing apart. I mean, Argo and all of the people there, everyone in the Justice Leaugue universe (Doom Patrol noooo!) probably all of the Martians we have ever met other than J`hon, considering its the whole universe being eaten and not just Earth, everyone (except The Ray I think) from Earth X, everyone from the Keaton Batman and the Adam West verses, tons of people and aliens from Kara's world (also has anyone checked on Nias family? Alex and Karas mom? JAMES!?!) and with all of this going down, I am really going to need to have the characters take a second to have it really hit that, holy shit, this is mass death on a degree presumably unseen with countless people they know being possibly disintegrated. I mean, we still dont even know if Jessie and Harry Wells from Earth 2 are alive! 

Edited December 9, 2019 by tennisgurl

[phoenics]

6 hours ago, futurechemist said:

Then there's suspension of disbelief over the antimatter wave, which is really just the plot device wave.  It can go from E38 to Argo38 to the edge of the universe(!) and back to E38 in a few hours?  But Earth and Argo are the only inhabited planets it destroys before it hops over to another universe? (E37 I guess if E1 is its final destination?)  Is it wiping out all live in each universe, or is it targeting Earth and places with an emotional connection to Earth?  How about the home planets to all of those aliens?

The antimatter wave is wiping out all universes in the multi-verse.  Each universe has its own Earth and also its own alien planets.

When the wave destroyed Argo and E-38, it destroyed E-38's entire universe... that means the remains of E-38s Krypton were also destroyed, along with every planet and star system in E-38's universe.  I'm assuming the wave destroys the Earth of each multiverse it destroys last, so that's why they could see on E-38 that the wave was gonna hit Argo.

We don't really know how the Multiverse universes are laid out spatially and we don't know if the anti-matter wave is going "in order" the way that we have labeled the universes.

All we really know is that E-1 is the originating universe and apparently it will be destroyed last.

I guess the anti-matter wave begins at the perimeter of the universe and works its way in until it wipes out the particular Earth at the center?

When I think too hard on this stuff it falls apart.

The order the wave is taking out universes feels arbitrary and yes, like a plot device.

[phoenics]

4 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

You know, its all kind of lost in the drama of Oliver's (alleged, hello denile my old friend) but a TON of people died last night when the multiverse started tearing apart. I mean, Argo and all of the people there, everyone in the Justice Leaugue universe (Doom Patrol noooo!) probably all of the Martians we have ever met other than J`hon, considering its the whole universe being eaten and not just Earth, everyone (except The Ray I think) from Earth X, everyone from the Keaton Batman and the Adam West verses, tons of people and aliens from Kara's world (also has anyone checked on Nias family? Alex and Karas mom? JAMES!?!) and with all of this going down, I am really going to need to have the characters take a second to have it really hit that, holy shit, this is mass death on a degree presumably unseen with countless people they know being possibly disintegrated. I mean, we still dont even know if Jessie and Harry Wells from Earth 2 are alive! 

I'm still beyond pissed that Barry still doesn't know that Earth-2 was wiped out.  The Flash characters had deep, multiple season long relationships with characters from Earth-2 and they've been left out of that loop completely.  Like - it doesn't even make sense.

As a Flash fan, I've been incredibly disappointed with how The Flash has built into Crisis and even how Crisis is playing out w.r.t. Flash established characters now that it's begun... 5+ years waiting for that Crisis storyline that was teased on The Flash since its pilot but all the action happened on another show.

Just doesn't sit right.

Before this thread and some spoiler comments, I wasn't thinking this might end in a reverse snap situation... but maybe it will and the universes will be restored?  Going into Crisis, I thought everything was gonna end with all the multiverses combined into one huge one, a la new 52, but now I'm not so sure....

I hope tonight's episode is a little easier to follow and that they allow more beats for reality to set in about all of these deaths.

[Trini]

Quick thoughts before reading the rest of the thread;

Ha! I knew they'd get a Titans clip in there somewhere! But Hank and Jason? Still cool, though. As well as the other cameos.

Glad more Supergirl characters (and elements) got to have some significant scenes, unlike previous crossovers. But no budget for J'onn's Martian form?

They really got to start making those Kryptonian escape pods family-sized.

But Lena still being awful and Alex apologizing to her? -- UGH

Was not so impressed with the 'half dozen supers versus CGI' fights.

Disappointed that Barry and Oliver didn't really get to talk about Oliver's deal and catch up, etc. Even if they weren't going to use Barry's power set, I would have liked to see more of him interacting with other characters.

LOL - Oliver/Mia - must be bring your daughter to work day.

Would have felt better about Oliver dying if I wasn't sure we'll be seeing him again (in some form or way) very soon.

[quarks]

14 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

Regarding the trip to Earth-16 2046.....I’m confused.  That is not the 2046 timeline that Sara and the Legends visited back in season one.  I know Sara initially thought it was (for some reason), but.....no.  That Oliver knew Sara didn’t die on the Gambit, and that she returned to Star City only to leave on the Waverider with the other Legends in 2016.  This Oliver has no knowledge of Sara having survived the shipwreck.  They can’t be the same universes.  Do the writers want us to believe they are?  Is this a “we’ve done our best to forget everything about season one and we hope the viewers have too” thing? 😂

The real villain here is Anti-Continuity, a power that nothing in the Arrowverse - apparently - can stop!

[NeenerNeener]

Wil Weaton shows up in the strangest places. And I LOLed when I recognized Burt Ward after all these years. One of these days I'm going to have to rewatch this closely just to see all the cameos.

ETA: Hey, if they're really going to

Spoiler

bring in Clark and Lois from Smallville, will Berlanti also adhere to the Gough & Millar "No flights, no tights" rule for Welling? It might not be a bad idea since Welling has sort of...bulked up...over the years.

[Primal Slayer]

33 minutes ago, NeenerNeener said:

ETA: Hey, if they're really going to

Spoiler

bring in Clark and Lois from Smallville, will Berlanti also adhere to the Gough & Millar "No flights, no tights" rule for Welling? It might not be a bad idea since Welling has sort of...bulked up...over the years.

Spoiler

Welling refuses to wear a Super suit so I dont think they'll have to worry about that.

[BaggythePanther]

2 hours ago, phoenics said:

We don't really know how the Multiverse universes are laid out spatially and we don't know if the anti-matter wave is going "in order" the way that we have labeled the universes.

I believe it was in episode one of the Flash this season that Jay Garrick showed Barry a multiverse map. By the looks of it there’s no rhyme or reason to the movement of the anti-matter wave. It seems like it’ll just be dictated by plot.

The best part of this episode were the various character interactions. I understand why Lena is hurt, but she is being so over dramatic about the whole thing. It looks worse considering in this episode we have Kate, who figured out Kara was Supergirl after knowing her for five minutes, when Lena couldn’t figure it out for three years.

[Terrafamilia]

If only there were, somewhere in the multiverse, a green-skinned alien computer man with a penchant for shrinking whole populations and stowing them away in space-saving bottles.

[nuraman00]

This was a good opening episode.

I liked the different groups that teamed up.

This was also fairly self-contained.  And they gave a decent preview and explanation of the situation at the beginning.

I don't think it's that easy to get humans to evacuate.  There will be people that either don't believe in the danger, or would rather stay on Earth until the end.

[Chyromaniac]

More dangerous to release: the anti-monitor... or the Snyder cut?

[Wishing Well]

23 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

Regarding the trip to Earth-16 2046.....I’m confused.  That is not the 2046 timeline that Sara and the Legends visited back in season one.  I know Sara initially thought it was (for some reason), but.....no.  That Oliver knew Sara didn’t die on the Gambit, and that she returned to Star City only to leave on the Waverider with the other Legends in 2016.  This Oliver has no knowledge of Sara having survived the shipwreck.  They can’t be the same universes.  Do the writers want us to believe they are?  Is this a “we’ve done our best to forget everything about season one and we hope the viewers have too” thing? 😂

Also!  By the time the team left, Oliver and John Diggle Jr were having a blast tag teaming it, and Oliver had some semblance of purpose again.  I wonder if this is time trying to fix the John Jr v Connor Hawks issue?

Should’ve just left Baby Sara.

[Delphi]

If the Monitor saved The Ray only to have his husband die on Earth X, I'm totally booking a flight to Vancouver to punch MG in the face.   There I said it. 

[benteen]

Good start.  I think it will get better with episode 2.

Greatly enjoyed the cameos in the beginning, especially Batman-89 (Burt Ward one was pretty great too).  I would have been happy if they had just been bouncing from Earth to Earth.

Definitely some great stuff on the Oliver and Sara front.  Those two always worked so well together.

I'm not buying this was Oliver's final death (I suspect he won't make it out of this crossover alive either) though the scene was well done.

"You're the best of us, Barry."  Let's see, Oliver just died saving a billion people (which admittedly is silly how one man can buy enough time to save a billion people by fighting thousands of ghosts in hand-to-hand combat).  But let me start over, Oliver just died saving a billion people and Barry once risked the fate of Earth and potentially the galaxy to go back in time to save his mother.  Barry wiped Sara Diggle out of existence to save his mother.  Barry is a selfish prat.

It's always fun getting to see these characters interact.  Ray with Batwoman as one.  Nice to see Ray finally back in his Atom costume...the Legends budget certainly wasn't allowing that.

[Rushmoras]

As an afterthought, the fact that they can travel to the future means, what, that the Crisis was stopped. At least in my books. 🙄 Cause it was specifically stated this anti-matter wave means the end of everything.

Edited December 10, 2019 by Rushmoras

[Bruinsfan]

I'm not sure if the TV event is keeping the mechanics exactly the same as in the comics, but there

Spoiler

each universe was being destroyed throughout its history all at once—past, present, and future. So previous interactions with possible futures (and past eras) didn't mean that they were safe from destruction.

[teenj12]

Forgot to mention this, but I actually think it was the right idea to start the crossover off with Earth-38 being threatened by the anti-matter wave rather than Earth-1. After years of Kara coming over to help the Earth-1 heroes protect their world, this time the entire Arrowverse assembled to help her protect her world. So I thought that was pretty cool in a thematic sense.

[Jenniferbug]

1 hour ago, teenj12 said:

Forgot to mention this, but I actually think it was the right idea to start the crossover off with Earth-38 being threatened by the anti-matter wave rather than Earth-1. After years of Kara coming over to help the Earth-1 heroes protect their world, this time the entire Arrowverse assembled to help her protect her world. So I thought that was pretty cool in a thematic sense.

I hadn't thought of it that way! That is really cool!

[AudienceofOne]

That was kind of generic and banal until they tried to make me think they killed off Oliver in the first episode of the crossover, which is an episode of Supergirl.

The worst thing is - after some of the nonsense they've pulled the last few years - I'd believe them entirely capable of it. 

The only other thing I got is - thank God they finally put Kara in a proper uniform rather than that sexist 1960s intergalactic cheerleader nonsense.