S03.E06: Tywysog Cymru

[Nire]

I really wish they'd introduced Charles sooner.  The actor did a great job.  I really enjoyed seeing him and Anne relate to each other.  

[Umbelina]

6 minutes ago, Nire said:

I really wish they'd introduced Charles sooner.  The actor did a great job.  I really enjoyed seeing him and Anne relate to each other.  

I think they waited since last time we saw Charles he was in short pants, and by the show's timetable that was only 2 or 3 years ago.  So they wanted us to get used to the older cast before we actually see Charles I suppose.

Something tells me we will see plenty of him in season 4 and forevermore.  

[Nire]

Just now, Umbelina said:

I think they waited since last time we saw Charles he was in short pants, and by the show's timetable that was only 2 or 3 years ago.  So they wanted us to get used to the older cast before we actually see Charles I suppose.

Something tells me we will see plenty of him in season 4 and forevermore.  

I agree he's being set up to have a larger role.  However he wasn't even mentioned for almost half a season.  And Anne was even younger last season but they introduced her sooner (not that I'm complaining about her being introduced early).

[Cheezwiz]

On 11/17/2019 at 6:28 PM, Umbelina said:

I have always wanted to learn Welsh, so it was fun for me to watch the lessons.  Ha, I know I have a touch of Welsh in my ancestry, but I have exactly no talent for even knowing where to begin with that language!

I have Welsh heritage as well, so I enjoyed the bits with the language, and hearing it spoken throughout the episode. But good Gawd, you couldn't ask for a wackier language - not quite enough vowels (except 'y') and a surplus of double-consonants! Difficult pronunciation, and as typical with Celtic languages, NOTHING sounds anything like the way it's spelled! Awhile back, I did stumble on some fun YouTube videos that teach some basics of Welsh language, which broke it down into manageable bits. (As an aside,  I've always felt that it was the ultimate revenge of both the Welsh & Irish that they wound up much more eloquent and poetic with the invading English language, than the English could ever hope to be themselves!)

As for the rest of it, I loved this episode - I thought it was interesting and touching. 

They have absolutely NAILED the casting for Charles and Anne - both actors are doing a spectacular job, and both have a slight resemblance to their real-life counterparts.

The Queen's response to Charles's speech was absolutely savage. Just brutal. She was definitely pissed that he was using the plight of Wales to subtly air his own family grievances (even though the public would never have picked up on it). I'm not sure how closely the show's speech hews to the real thing, but it seemed thoughtful and empathetic rather than divisive.

I enjoyed the scenes with Charles in his tutor's home - where he witnessed parents interacting in a loving manner with their child. The wonderment on Charles's face as they both put their little boy to bed was poignant.

[Constantinople]

Too bad they didn't let us know if Charles kept it up with Welsh

[Paloma]

On 11/19/2019 at 12:45 PM, iMonrey said:

I must say they've done a splendid job in casting young Charles and Anne. Not only do they bear a passing resemblance to the real thing, they're both really good actors too. What a stroke of luck for the show.

This episode put the Queen in a horrible light, frankly. She came off very badly in that final scene. It's the first time I can remember in this series actively disliking her.

I am the same age as Anne and mostly remember what she looked like at that age; maybe it is partly the hair, but I see a strong resemblance. The actor playing Charles, not so much, but his performance was good enough that after a couple of scenes the lack of resemblance didn't bother me. 

Like many posters here, this episode made me feel sympathetic and understanding toward Charles (contrary to my previous feelings). Sure, it would be nice to live in the lap of luxury and have all your needs taken care of, but as a parent I don't think it's fair to blame children and teenagers (and I think Charles here is supposed to be no more than 20) who grow up in this situation but are unhappy because they want "normal" lives.   

I also lost most of my sympathy and understanding of the Queen in that final scene. Of course, this may not be the way she really acted toward Charles, but it would have been nice to see a reaction that was more nuanced.

I was so excited to see Caernarfon Castle as the setting for the speech. We visited Wales in 2004 and that was one of our favorite sites--watching this made me go back to our old travel photos to reminisce. (I tried to attach one here but the file size was too big.) 

[Umbelina]

2 minutes ago, Paloma said:

Like many posters here, this episode made me feel sympathetic and understanding toward Charles (contrary to my previous feelings). Sure, it would be nice to live in the lap of luxury and have all your needs taken care of, but as a parent I don't think it's fair to blame children and teenagers (and I think Charles here is supposed to be no more than 20) who grow up in this situation but are unhappy because they want "normal" lives.   

I also lost most of my sympathy and understanding of the Queen in that final scene. Of course, this may not be the way she really acted toward Charles, but it would have been nice to see a reaction that was more nuanced.

I think liking Charles and disliking the Queen (her coldness, especially towards Charles) has been the entire point of most of season 3.

To me, it's not only heavy handed, it's distasteful.

Edited November 21, 2019 by Umbelina

[tennisgurl]

This episode reminded me a bit of when I studied abroad in Ireland, and I tried to learn some Gaelic before I got there, and it made my tongue actually hurt! Its a beautiful language and I think the efforts that have been taken to preserve the language, especially after cruel efforts to stamp it out in the 19th and early 20th century, are wonderful, but its one of the most daunting languages I have ever tried to pick up! I can imagine Welsh is rather similar. 

Edited November 21, 2019 by tennisgurl

[Umbelina]

13 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

This episode reminded me a bit of when I studied abroad in Ireland, and I tried to learn from Gaelic before I got there, and it made my tongue actually hurt! Its a beautiful language and I think the efforts that have been taken to preserve the language, especially after cruel efforts to stamp it out in the 19th and early 20th century, but its one of the most daunting languages I have ever tried to pick up! I can imagine Welsh is rather similar. 

There are free youtubes out there on learning Welsh (or at least some Welsh.)  I may give them a try when my life slows down a bit, it's more than a tad hectic right now.

What's strange is that I studied Russian for 5 years, and while my grammar was always questionable with Russian, I've been told my pronunciation is excellent by several Russians.  Russian too often strings a bunch of consonants together, but somehow I found that easy.  With Welsh?  It's just so daunting, almost as if those particular consonants simply don't belong together or something!

I'm definitely going to try the youtubes though.  I loved those parts of this episode, and though completely impractical and definitely not "cinematic" there was a part of me that wished I could see the individual words he was learning in print at the bottom of the screen, in Welsh of course!  Ha.

[freeser]

5 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I think liking Charles and disliking the Queen (her coldness, especially towards Charles) has been the entire point of most of season 3.

To me, it's not only heavy handed, it's distasteful.

I understand the Queen being regal, controlled, etc. during her public outings.  The family's motto of 'never complain, never explain' states how they feel they should act when the world is watching. 

But as someone mentioned in another post, I have always heard that in private the Queen was funny, caring and showed emotion to her grand kids and extended family.  That was what I felt was totally lacking in this season 3.  Olivia/Queen rarely ever smiled or looked pleasant in any circumstance.  The dour/sour look was almost pasted on her face.  There were plenty of opportunities to show the more carefree happy side of her personality in these episodes.  In fact, I think that would have been such a good way to let viewers see the two sides of her - the public vs the private.  But she did not seem to act much differently from one instance to the other in this series. 

Olivia could only work with the script she was given - so maybe the point of the season was for us to dislike her.  But I don't know why the writers would have chosen that course.  I would have much rather watched a Queen that showed different sides to her personality instead of the rather unpleasant one we saw in the show.  

Edited November 22, 2019 by freeser

[Umbelina]

13 minutes ago, freeser said:

Olivia could only work with the script she was given - so maybe the point of the season was for us to dislike her.  But I don't know why the writers would chose that course.  I would have much rather watched a Queen that showed different sides to her personality instead of the rather unpleasant one we saw in the show.  

I watched all of them about 3 times, specifically looking for that though.  Olivia was given the same amount of "solo" time, alone usually, long stretches in many cases, taking off her jewelry, etc.  Those WERE the moments Foy always used to show us "the woman behind the mask."  The difference is that Foy DID, Olivia just doesn't.

As you say, it's almost always the same look on her face, dour, staring, frowning.  I thought of one of the lines Foy had, when she was getting injections in her cheek during the Australian tour because her muscles had seized up from all the smiling.  "I have the kind of face that looks like I'm angry/unhappy in resting pose, so I HAVE to smile."  (not a direct quote but the gist of it.)  Well, Colman really does have that kind of face!  

Her portrayal is just not working for me, and it's the lack of the subtle ways Foy ALWAYS showed us her inner thoughts, even though her outward appearance to others in the scene was composed.  It was like a secret language, and she did it so well, and so skillfully, usually in the same kind of moments the script allowed Colman this year, but often in actual scenes as well.  I happened to just re-watch the scene when Foy goes to the Opera to see the dancer Philip is boinking, the one he carried a photo of on his world tour.  To anyone who glanced up at the Queen, she looked appropriate, and very Queen like.  To US?  We saw the emotions in her eyes, in her breathing, in a tiny little jerk of her head, a small movement in her mouth.

I really miss that.  I miss having an actress who lets us see, not just the "outer" Queen, but the "inner" Queen.

While I agree that the writing is ... questionable to say the least, especially in this episode?  She WAS given the time to "do more than what is on the page" and it was quite a lot of time.  She just...didn't.

(I love Colman in other roles by the way.)

ETA, Jack Nicholson did an outstanding commentary on the DVD of SOMETHINGS GOT TO GIVE that was amazing, along with discussing the movie, he shared his thoughts on acting, on contributing, on adding more to a film, on movies in general, and it was almost like listening to a master class on acting.  (I highly recommend it.)  Anyone, one of the things he says in response to a question from the director on why he tossed a rock up and then caught it in a scene, that it wasn't scripted but was perfect.  He said "moving pictures MOVE" and goes on to say that the rock was a symbol of other things, so he knew it was important to call attention to it.

Unfortunately, Colman mostly seems to just stand and stare and frown, very little movement or subtlety in this role at all.  It's really kind of shocking to me, especially since, in THE FAVORITE she was simply a master at that, those tiny flickers in the eye, the pursed mouth at just the right moment, a hand or leg movement.  She obviously CAN do it, she just, for whatever reason, isn't.  

I needed help  understanding her motivation, especially in the scenes with Charles.  Honestly, all I got from her was that she hates him, or is incapable of doing the same things she lamented in earlier seasons, effectively training Charles for the job he would someday do.  She had SO much help, and understanding, or at least kindness.  Her grandmother was stern and demanding, but kind and understanding as well.  

I needed something from Colman about WHY she would not do that for Charles, other than the obvious, she hated him.  I don't believe the Queen really hated Charles, so WTF?

Edited November 21, 2019 by Umbelina

[Razzberry]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

This episode reminded me a bit of when I studied abroad in Ireland, and I tried to learn from Gaelic before I got there, and it made my tongue actually hurt! Its a beautiful language and I think the efforts that have been taken to preserve the language, especially after cruel efforts to stamp it out in the 19th and early 20th century, but its one of the most daunting languages I have ever tried to pick up! I can imagine Welsh is rather similar. 

I hope Welsh is faring a bit better than Irish as far as preservation goes.  My grandparents spoke Irish as a first language, but I read recently that despite massive efforts and years of compulsory classes, most Irish students just aren't proficient and it continues to be threatened with extinction.  It's very sad.   

The Queen Mum's hat -

[katie9918]

2 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I think liking Charles and disliking the Queen (her coldness, especially towards Charles) has been the entire point of most of season 3.

To me, it's not only heavy handed, it's distasteful.

That’s exactly how I saw the way Philip was portrayed in seasons 1 and 2, that he was so awful it made her look positively saintly.

[Umbelina]

16 minutes ago, katie9918 said:

That’s exactly how I saw the way Philip was portrayed in seasons 1 and 2, that he was so awful it made her look positively saintly.

Except he was depicted as the one to play with his children, and though probably misguided on his part, I did see his (mistaken) reasoning to send Charles to the school that both toughened him up, and gave him a home during his own childhood struggles.

I didn't see Philip as completely the bad guy in the first two seasons though, or even in this one.

[Cheezwiz]

4 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I think the efforts that have been taken to preserve the language, especially after cruel efforts to stamp it out in the 19th and early 20th century, are wonderful, but its one of the most daunting languages I have ever tried to pick up! I can imagine Welsh is rather similar. 

Oh, Irish is such a gorgeous sounding language when spoken (much softer  than Welsh, which has a preponderance of the guttural sounds we see Charles practicing in this episode). I am fascinated by both languages, as they nearly became extinct, but holy cats, all Gaelic language is baffling!

4 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I'm definitely going to try the youtubes though.  I loved those parts of this episode, and though completely impractical and definitely not "cinematic" there was a part of me that wished I could see the individual words he was learning in print at the bottom of the screen, in Welsh of course!  Ha.

Ha! I was thinking the same thing as I was watching! I kept wishing there were subtitles showing the spelling of the words Charles was trying to pronounce. Not that it would have made anything clearer since the spelling does not give any hint as to pronunciation! The YouTube videos are quite fun - the ones I found broke things into bite-sized chunks, but I didn't keep up with them and forgot the rudimentary basics I learned ("hello", "my name is").

Edited November 22, 2019 by Cheezwiz

[PRgal]

I just finished the episode and wanted to give Charles a big hug (as I did when he was sent to that gawd-awful school (for him, anyway)).  

[benteen]

"No one."

Oof, that was brutal.

Just want to echo how great a job Josh O'Connor did.  They really hit some home runs with the younger cast.  Erin Doherty has been great as Anne and the two share a wonderful interaction.

I was annoyed at the tutor early on, as it felt like he was half-assing his teaching too.

[TV Diva Queen]

I feel that Coleman is doing an excellent job.  She's older and the work is getting harder.  Everyone is against her and its starting to wear on her.  Foy had the fun, "let's fall in love, oh look, I'm the queen" era.  Coleman gets the "this shit is real" era.  This season is much "darker" both in content and in the actual lighting of the show, and IMO Coleman represents that pretty well.  Season 1 and 2 are way different than Season 3.  I enjoy them all for different reason.  [headed over to the SVU page to tell those folks that Stabler STILL isn't coming back]  /said with much love

Edited November 22, 2019 by TV Diva Queen

[Razzberry]

I loved the scene where Charles recites all the tongue-twisters as his tutor sits there biting his own.   Josh O'Connor is amazing.  His Charles is sympathetic yet he captures that quality of being not quite right that makes people uneasy, including his parents.

[ajsnaves]

This episode does an excellent job showing three competing facets of Elizabeth and Charles' relationship. First we see the Mother/Son relationship fighting to come through, but will always lose in the end. (Because the Crown always wins after all.) Then we see the Employer/Employee relationship with the Queen  as the boss, and Charles as the employee (in training).  She is literally training her replacement.  Which finally leads to the Sovereign and Heir.  In a very real way, Charles is a symbol of Elizabeth's mortality.  Throughout history, we see that tension between the monarch and heir. (It seems George VI and Elizabeth is an exception to that rule.)

This all comes to head in that final conversation.  She is clearly the pissed off boss, trying to teach him what his role is, and should be when he's King, completely forgetting to be his mother too. I also think she's jealous of his freedom.  She wants to go to school, and wants to act in a play. And mad that he does not realize how much freedom he has. I also think she is frustrated and at a loss trying to figure out what they want from the Royal Family today, as opposed to what was expected 10 or 20 years ago.

[lavenderblue]

On 11/21/2019 at 7:23 PM, Cheezwiz said:

Ha! I was thinking the same thing as I was watching! I kept wishing there were subtitles showing the spelling of the words Charles was trying to pronounce. Not that it would have made anything clearer since the spelling does not give any hint as to pronunciation! The YouTube videos are quite fun - the ones I found broke things into bite-sized chunks, but I didn't keep up with them and forgot the rudimentary basics I learned ("hello", "my name is").

If you turn on captioning, some of the Welsh from his lessons is indeed written out on screen!

[abertawe]

I'm Welsh and of a similar vintage to Carlo Bach (Little Charlie, also Chuck, or Dumbo because of the ears). I remember the investiture well, as a Swansea schoolgirl at the time (we got the afternoon off school for our stop on the royal tour referred to in the episode; I think we were supposed to line the route and do loyal cheering, but we went to the pictures instead). What struck me about this account - very affectingly played by Josh O'Connor, I thought, made me feel some sympathy for the lad for the first time in 50 years - was how played down the politics was. Unless I missed it, no-one mentioned the botched bombing the night before (at least one of the bombers blew themselves up, but I think someone innocent was also killed or hurt - I haven't checked and my ageing memory may be at fault) or the fact that the whole shebang was partially in response to a growing undercurrent of Welsh nationalism at the time. My recollection is that the 'learning Welsh' thing was well received. That song at the end was by Dafydd Iwan, a big name in nationalist circles at the time (and still with us, I think) - it was widely circulated at the time but I've never heard it since until now. The horror of the queen's hat has never left me, though. The recreation somehow does not quite capture its full Cyberman appallingness. 

Apropos the perceived incomprehensibility of Welsh, once you have learned the alphabet it is pronounced as written. English speakers get thrown when they encounter what they think are consonants (w and y) but in Welsh are vowels. I am not a Welsh speaker but can pronounce anything I see written because we were taught the alphabet. There was a clever subtlety in the actor's performance in that his Welsh was more fluent behind the scenes with the man from Plaid Cymru than it seemed to be when delivering the speech for real. Someone asked how the Welsh language is doing these days. It's thriving. The arrival of a dedicated TV channel and acceptance that it should have equal official status with English stopped much of the rot. Incoming English people choosing to learn it and have their kids learn it also helped.

I love these comments. It's very interesting to me to see how Americans see British programmes - often very insightful. For the record, I also prefer Foy to Colman. 

[pasdetrois]

Quote

Also, Elizabeth was trained with KINDNESS, both from her father and from her grandmother.  Even her mother was never that harsh with her, and Winston guided her as well. 

I hadn't thought of that and it's a great observation.

It's Charles' understandable neediness that is repulsing his parents. The neediness is justified, but it's hard to tolerate, especially by these stiff upper lip folks. My observation has been that the upper classes essentially ignore their children.

I love Josh O'Connor and believe he will have an awesome career. He carried this episode.

My gawd, the ugly hats. My mother wore a few humdingers in her time.

[PeterPirate]

I did like the moment when Anne sat up during Charles' performance.  Even she was captivated.  

Also, I had to look up the play that was being performed.  Since no one else has done it, I will enter into the record that it was Richard II.  Yes, they are being obvious with the choice, but I think there is value in reminding us that the themes of this show were being written about 500 years ago by Shakespeare.  

Then again, it could be said that the Immortal Bard, like Peter Morgan, was writing to please the royals of his day.  The more things change, the more they stay the same.  

Edited November 23, 2019 by PeterPirate

[Bunnyette]

On 11/21/2019 at 4:18 PM, freeser said:

I understand the Queen being regal, controlled, etc. during her public outings.  The family's motto of 'never complain, never explain' states how they feel they should act when the world is watching. 

But as someone mentioned in another post, I have always heard that in private the Queen was funny, caring and showed emotion to her grand kids and extended family.  That was what I felt was totally lacking in this season 3.  Olivia/Queen rarely ever smiled or looked pleasant in any circumstance.  The dour/sour look was almost pasted on her face.  There were plenty of opportunities to show the more carefree happy side of her personality in these episodes.  In fact, I think that would have been such a good way to let viewers see the two sides of her - the public vs the private.  But she did not seem to act much differently from one instance to the other in this series. 

Olivia could only work with the script she was given - so maybe the point of the season was for us to dislike her.  But I don't know why the writers would have chosen that course.  I would have much rather watched a Queen that showed different sides to her personality instead of the rather unpleasant one we saw in the show.  

Agreed, where’s the scenes of the Queen putting her younger two to bed & playing them...this according to numerous biographers.  Excellent portrayals by Josh & Erin on Charles & Anne.

[GaT]

I was bored again, I am not enjoying this season anywhere close to the first two.

[Margo Leadbetter]

On 11/19/2019 at 3:20 PM, Ohiopirate02 said:

I appreciate the fact that the costumers chose to recreate that hat.  I really cannot believe that someone made that hat and told the queen it was fashionable.  

All I could think of when I saw that hat was Lime Cat. 
 

[Capricasix]

12 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

Also, I had to look up the play that was being performed.  Since no one else has done it, I will enter into the record that it was Richard II.  Yes, they are being obvious with the choice, but I think there is value in reminding us that the themes of this show were being written about 500 years ago by Shakespeare.  

A few years ago, the BBC did an absolutely outstanding version of Shakespeare’s history plays (Henrys IV and V, Richards II and III) with Ben Whishaw, Rory Kinnear, Jeremy Irons, Tom Hiddleston, Benedict Cumberbatch, Tom Sturridge, Sophie Okonedo, Adrian Dunbar, and a bunch of others I’ve no doubt forgotten. It’s available for purchase on iTunes, but it’s not on Netflix or Amazon or Hulu AFAIK.

Oh! And by way of connecting this post with The Crown, Ben Daniels (Tony Armstrong-Jones) and Ben Miles (Peter Townsend) also appeared in the series.

Edited November 24, 2019 by Capricasix

[Magnumfangirl]

I agree with all the comments here that the Queen is becoming unlikeable, but it's probably on purpose.  Maybe she was bored and tired of it all in IRL during this era.  I don't think she hated Charles because she seemed pleased that he was enjoying Cambridge and she was ok with him having some leeway in his speech.  I think she was just pissed that he was airing dirty laundry.  The thing is, if she recognized he was referring to himself in the speech; then Charles had already been heard. That's what she should have said to him instead of the dressing down she gave him.  

Josh O'Connor was excellent playing Charles as the navel gazer that he is, but still keeping him likeable which he also is.  That was a great song choice on Anne's record player, but I wish we could have seen more of her room.

Until now, I had always thought that ugly hat was some sort of ancient ceremonial helmet that she had to wear.  Can't believe that was a fashion choice!  

Edited November 24, 2019 by Magnumfangirl

[chitowngirl]

Charles is getting to the age Elizabeth was when she became Queen. Perhaps she is envious of the freedom he will have that she was denied because her father died sooner than expected.

[AZChristian]

9 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

Anything would have been better than that hat the Queen wore to Charles's investiture. It looked like she was gearing up for a game of water-polo. Anything. A simple pillbox, a widebrim, a beret. That milliner should have been taken to the royal dungeon!

Perhaps that's what happened.  Goodness knows, we never saw anything that ugly again.  Most of her hats these days seem to be cut from a similar pattern - in fabrics and colors to match any given outfit.

Just did a quick search and found this description of her outfit:

"Worn by The Queen for the Investiture of Prince Charles as Prince of Wales at Caernarfon Castle, 1 July 1969, this ensemble of pale primrose yellow comprises a silk crepe long-sleeved coat and matching tunic, both applied with pearl and bugle bead embroidery. The striking hat of the same pale primrose yellow silk consists of a crown entirely embroidered with pearls and bugle beads. To the crown is attached a panel of silk with lines of embroidery which covers the back of the head to the nape of the neck. The hat appears to have been inspired by Tudor prototypes and was a style repeated on several occasions in different colours and materials."

Not that I remember ever seeing again.  Thank goodness.

[Caoimhe]

On 11/21/2019 at 3:55 PM, tennisgurl said:

This episode reminded me a bit of when I studied abroad in Ireland, and I tried to learn some Gaelic before I got there, and it made my tongue actually hurt! Its a beautiful language and I think the efforts that have been taken to preserve the language, especially after cruel efforts to stamp it out in the 19th and early 20th century, are wonderful, but its one of the most daunting languages I have ever tried to pick up! I can imagine Welsh is rather similar. 

To each their own, I was delighted to see the back of it after Leaving Cert and barely have a few words any more.  Not that I was ever truly fluent, but I’d no interest and have always maintained it should be a choice for students and not a requirement.  /soapbox!!  

That hat was awful, it really does look like a dressed-up helmet.

[JustDucky]

Can we just concentrate on the younger royals from here on out?  Not only are their "characters" more captivating, but their actors are nailing it.  (I especially want to see Princess Anne tell off her would-be kidnapper, because I think her actress would deliver "not bloody likely!" perfectly.)

I can see where the Queen was coming from in her last rant tirade speech.  The delivery sucked, though.  Another reason I want to spend more time on the young royals now.

[tennisgurl]

That hat is so ugly, the hat maker should be tried for treason to the crown! 

[kwnyc]

Quote

A few years ago, the BBC did an absolutely outstanding version of Shakespeare’s history plays 

I thought I remembered who played Richard II in the BBC plays, and I was right: Sir Derek Jacobi (aka Uncle David.) He has now played two British Kings who abdicated (centuries apart.)

[seewillrun]

As Queen, I don't think she has a relationship with Charles as her son at all.  He's the future King and she seems to only want to deal with the heir, in a training sort of way, not with Charles, as his mother.  

Someone upthread mentioned that she is required to do as the government advises, but she argued against the government advise as to issues with Phillip, but seems like it isn't worth the effort to advocate for Charles.  Also, if you are sending your son into what it seems like was known "hostile territory", why wouldn't you send him with someone  to help bridge the cultural gap.

Several people have mentioned how the Queen in Season Three seems much colder than in Seasons 1 and 2 and have wondered if it was due to the change in actors, but I think it has been a conscious decision to portray her as harder, colder and showing much less emotion.  She has been queen for almost 2 decades and the experience has hardened her.  

When Phillip was talking her out of allowing Charles to add his own words to the speech, it was easy to see that neither of them think much of Charles and as far as has been shown, he has never really let them down, he just has different priorities than they do.  

[jschoolgirl]

21 hours ago, Margo Leadbetter said:

All I could think of when I saw that hat was Lime Cat. 
 

I remember watching on the teevee at the home of the woman who did my mom's hair and cut mine (a shop in her home), and I couldn't believe there would be a hat like that.

And from the photo above, the queen looks younger than Colman.

[Magnumfangirl]

4 hours ago, jschoolgirl said:

And from the photo above, the queen looks younger than Colman.

From pics and video from the late 60s, she looked much better than OC.  I don't get why they are making her look so old and frumpy.  QEII still looked pretty youthful during this era.  Claire Foy could have easily continued to play her this season.

[Constantinople]

On 11/21/2019 at 5:40 PM, Razzberry said:

I hope Welsh is faring a bit better than Irish as far as preservation goes.  My grandparents spoke Irish as a first language, but I read recently that despite massive efforts and years of compulsory classes, most Irish students just aren't proficient and it continues to be threatened with extinction.  It's very sad.   

The Queen Mum's hat -

Hundreds or thousands of years from now the "Queen's" hat will be used as "proof" that humans were contacted by Ancient Aliens

[teddysmom]

On 11/17/2019 at 9:47 PM, Umbelina said:

Fantastic choice of a play for Charles to do at the end.  Nothing like Shakespeare to finish this.

What was that play? 

 

On 11/20/2019 at 11:35 PM, Cheezwiz said:

I have Welsh heritage as well, so I enjoyed the bits with the language, and hearing it spoken throughout the episode.

I just found out I have Welsh in my background too! Edwards from Cardiff Glanmorganshire. He came to Surry VA.  So I found this very interesting.  I've always had an affinity for that area of GB. 

I don't get why the Queen dislikes Wales.  Isn't she supposed to be "nice" to the people of her realm? 

I'm sorry you can be Queen, and need the family to step up sometimes without being such a jerk about it.    You can't even say thank you? Because we just have to do what we do and no one thanks us.  They thank you by paying taxes to fund your lifestyle and your palaces.

That's bs. 

 

On 11/24/2019 at 5:52 PM, seewillrun said:

When Phillip was talking her out of allowing Charles to add his own words to the speech, it was easy to see that neither of them think much of Charles and as far as has been shown, he has never really let them down, he just has different priorities than they do.  

I'd say a cat is a better parent to her litter, but that's rather insulting to a cat. At least they nurture their kittens and look out for them. It seems to  Phillip & Elizabeth the kids are just a pain in the ass. She wants to focus on horses, and he wants to do his polo and lunches at the club and what not. 

I don't get why she's such a hard ass with the kids.  It's not because she's a Royal.  Her father adored the two girls, and Diana altho not of the family, was able to show William and Harry how a real parent behaved. 

Phillip does seem to have a soft spot for Anne. BTW the actress playing Anne could be her twin.  

[WatchrTina]

On 11/25/2019 at 11:56 AM, teddysmom said:

I don't get why the Queen dislikes Wales. 

I have no idea if the real Queen dislikes Wales and I'm no expert on British politics but wasn't the Welsh teacher in the episode depicted as being a Welsh Nationalist -- someone who wanted to sever ties with England and its monarch?  I can imagine that sticking in the Queen's craw.  

I just looked at a website listing countries/territories that have declared their independence from Great Britain during Elizabeth's reign and there have been 50 so far with 24 of those losses coming between her ascension to the throne and Charles' investiture as Prince of Wales. Losing a small, island nation like Vanuatu is one thing.  The Welsh independence movement was a whole different thing.  Wales is geographically contiguous with England and has been a part Great Britain for hundreds of years with the last serious revolt taking place (I think) in the 16th century (but don't quote me on that).  I can understand why the continuous rumblings of Welsh nationalism that the Queen heard throughout her reign (and which, perhaps, became louder around the time of Charles' Investiture as Prince of Wales) might be something that left her feeling somewhat cool toward the Welsh population.

Edited November 29, 2019 by WatchrTina

[PeterPirate]

After reading these comments, it occurs to me the show missed out on a terrific plot twist.  

Elizabeth is known to be not sympathetic towards Wales.  Her wayward son is spending time there, getting to know the population, and learning the language.  Might she not be worried those pesky Welsh peasants will stage an uprising, and put her son on the throne in her place?  After all, we know that his favorite great-uncle conspired to do just that.  

So now I'm thinking, that full body-body jacket could have been lead-lined, and that hat could have been concealing a steel helmet.  Just in case.  A shot of the inside of the hat would have been a great way to end the episode.  

(Just having fun.  It's a TV show, after all.)

ETA:  Indeed, it would have been even better for Charles to pick up the hat while visiting his mother's room, only to discover that she had taken precautions against a possible usurpation.  The Crown must win, yo.

Edited November 29, 2019 by PeterPirate

[Magnumfangirl]

I have to wonder why she was dressed like this at all.  When she gave Phillip a more formal title and he got all pissy about kneeling, she was wearing all her royal finery: a formal dress, a tiara, and a royal sash with all the broaches and medallions.  What she wore to Charles investiture looked more like something she would wear to Sunday church service.  A formal ceremony in a medieval fortress seems like a time to show up looking like a Queen.

[WatchrTina]

On 11/25/2019 at 10:56 PM, Magnumfangirl said:

A formal ceremony in a medieval fortress seems like a time to show up looking like a Queen.

I think the key issue here is that that Charles's investiture was outdoors. We've never seen the Queen in "full battle dress" outdoors (other than the short time between exiting a carriage and walking into Westminster Abbey for her coronation or when she walks to the doorway of a building to wave a people.  Charles, on the other hand, has the whole kit on (crown, ermine trimmed robe, the works.)  The focus was supposed to be on him so it makes sense to me that the Queen was not in royal robes.

Furthermore, if you go back and look at that scene where Philip is elevated to Prince of the United Kingdom, all that pomp (crowns, robes, the queen in full battle dress) had a whiff of trying-too-hard about it -- especially in that relatively small throne room (small compared to the Abbey or Caernefon Castle.) I always thought that Philip looked a bit silly in his full regalia at the end of that ceremony and I think that was the intention of the scene (as in "can you believe what we have to go through to salve this man's ego?")

Edited November 27, 2019 by WatchrTina

[Blakeston]

The more I think about it, the more I think that the professor was a dick.

So Charles actually smiles once, while doing tongue-twisters in English, and the professor decides that means Charles isn't taking Welsh seriously?

And he's really going to hold it against Charles that he hasn't entered the library, when he doesn't even speak Welsh yet? He probably would have explored the campus more if people weren't so hostile toward him.

At the dinner, when Charles didn't know who Llywelyn ap Gruffudd was, it seemed like the faculty was primarily embarrassed that the professor hadn't taught him yet - not that they were angry with Charles.

[Ohiopirate02]

12 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

The more I think about it, the more I think that the professor was a dick.

So Charles actually smiles once, while doing tongue-twisters in English, and the professor decides that means Charles isn't taking Welsh seriously?

And he's really going to hold it against Charles that he hasn't entered the library, when he doesn't even speak Welsh yet? He probably would have explored the campus more if people weren't so hostile toward him.

At the dinner, when Charles didn't know who Llywelyn ap Gruffudd was, it seemed like the faculty was primarily embarrassed that the professor hadn't taught him yet - not that they were angry with Charles.

One thing that I didn't get in this episode is how IMHO rudely the college treated Charles.  I would have expected them to provide a student ambassador to welcome Charles to the campus, show him around, get a bite to eat together, etc.  Not all of the students would have been Welsh Nationalists who would sooner spit on Charles than shake his hand.  I also felt the same way last season with Charles at Gordonstoun.  Yes, kids can be bullies, but Charles is the future king.  Wouldn't there be at least one student who can see that and want to cozy up to him.  I don't believe that the entire student body of the university would be hostile towards Charles.

[LilWharveyGal]

22 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

So Charles actually smiles once, while doing tongue-twisters in English, and the professor decides that means Charles isn't taking Welsh seriously?

I thought that was going to be the moment the tutor realized he could tap into Charles' interest in tongue twisters and oration/acting to teach him the Welsh language in a way that would be easier and more engaging for him.  Nope.  Silly me.

[Atlanta]

Only about halfway through this ep but distracted by the actor's slumped posture. I haven't noticed Charles having a slump. It makes him see already beaten down.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

While I felt bad for Charles being used as a pawn by his family and the government, once they said he would only be in Wales for three months I felt considerably less bad for him. I mean, it still sucks that he was perfectly happy at his current school and they were forcing him to spend a term somewhere else (and where he didn't know anyone) but it's not like they asked him to move to Siberia for a decade.

Honestly, it seems kind of silly that no one thought to send him there sooner to learn Welsh (especially since it's easier for younger children to pick up languages). If they had sent him there for the summer when he was younger, they could have hired a tutor to help him keep up his Welsh skills when he was older.

I know it was all about PR but it seems if you're going to be the Prince of [insert any country here] and technically rule over a group of people, the least you could do is fly/take the train/drive and go see it and learn some basic conversational language skills.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

16 hours ago, LilWharveyGal said:

I thought that was going to be the moment the tutor realized he could tap into Charles' interest in tongue twisters and oration/acting to teach him the Welsh language in a way that would be easier and more engaging for him.  Nope.  Silly me.

I thought the same thing too! It seemed a wasted opportunity not to use something that Charles was familiar with and skilled at to help him with his Welsh pronunciation.