S39.E03: Honesty Would Be Chill

[Ms Blue Jay]

2 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I thought it was one of the men. But it's virtually impossible to tell who it was based on what we heard/were shown. That was absolutely hilarious though.

I thought it was a man, like a big man.

Jamal, Tom, or Dan.  It was Jamal and Dan's tribe, right?

I was told I scream in my sleep once, so I loved that scene too.  

[Ms Blue Jay]

19 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

I don't think Sandra was blinded by anything.  She mentored him as best she could to sneak into the other tribe's camp and steal fire (ash), which he successfully did.  Her mentoring (and Rob's) did exactly what it was supposed to do - get Vince an idol.   How could either of them possibly know they actually had to tell him to USE the damn thing lol?

The mentoring was to be cool under pressure.

The flaw in the mentoring is to not be so cool that you make a huge mistake by not seeing a glaring danger right in front of you.

The mentoring on Vince absolutely didn't help his game last night.  It hurt it.

Edited October 10, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[blackwing]

17 minutes ago, TaraS1 said:

I know we joke every season about never having seen some of these people before, but I swear I'd never laid eyes on Dean in my life before last night.

I think to me he was always the "pasty pale white dude" on that tribe but I didn't know his name.  I think he looks like a young Liam Neeson.

[fishcakes]

Rob: We're teaching Vince how to be stealth but Sandra's taking it too far.
Sandra: [hiding behind giant palm frond, as if they grow vertically out of the ground]

The tribe was pretty cold-hearted about Karishma's injury seeing as how she was doubled over on the ground not ten feet away with a handful of pooled blood -- and even if she was drama-queening it up, which I'm not sure she was, it was still cold as hell. But then she turned out to be annoying, so it would have been fine with me if she'd left. She lost me when Vince asked her what she wanted, and she said she just wanted people to play, which invariably means, "I don't understand why everyone is not helping me to win this game." Even so, on the surface it seems dumb that the women's alliance got rid of Vince, who was a number for them, over Tom, who's not, but it's also possible that the women's alliance is not really as strong as they're making it out to be. If it turned out that the real alliance is Janet, Elizabeth, Tom, and guy whose name I don't know, I wouldn't be shocked.

[Bryce Lynch]

1 hour ago, Lamb18 said:

I'm watching right now and Vince just got his Idol. If those immunity idols expire they would make good fake idols for later.

Or, they can make great souvenirs  

[Lantern7]

43 minutes ago, fishcakes said:

Rob: We're teaching Vince how to be stealth but Sandra's taking it too far.
Sandra: [hiding behind giant palm frond, as if they grow vertically out of the ground]

Sandra: See this? This is okay camouflage. If you up and build an entire structure for the purpose of infiltration? Then you're a dumbass.

Rob: Aw, c'mon, Tony did good with the Spy Shack. He won!

Sandra: Oh, wow, totally the same as us. Well, maybe the same as your win. And if Woo had a damn brain, he would've taken Kass with him to the final!

[HurricaneVal]

2 hours ago, Nashville said:

I believe the actor you’re referencing is Kyle McLaughlin.

Wow.  Thanks.  Both Kyle and Dr. Will need to lay off the botox and fillers.  Yikes! 

I've been thinking (I do that sometimes).  Maybe Vince's Mission Impossible infiltration of the enemy camp wasn't quite as difficult as we are thinking.  I'll bet that if the sleepers heard anyone creeping around camp, they would just automatically assume it is one of the camera operators getting night vision filler shots.  They are specifically instructed not to look at the cameras and pretend they are not there.  There is every possibility they all heard Vince in the camp, but were consciously ignoring him because they thought he was just part of production.  There is also every possibility that a lot of those night vision shots of the sleepers without Vince in the frame were taken at a different time in the night, so the stirrings and nightmares we saw might have been hours earlier or later than Vince's mission, then all edited together.  Still, what he did was ballsy, and he was all in so that was fun to watch.  He just failed with the follow-through at Tribal Council.

I had a soft spot for Vince, in some ways he reminded me of Big Brother 21's Ovi.  He seemed to be an all-around good egg, well-meaning but on the outs with the rest of the group.  He was kind to Karishima when it appears nobody else was.  Except...he was at IOI when she cut her hand, right?  I would like think that Vince at least would have gone to sit with her to wait for medical if he were around when she hurt herself.

Speaking of Karishima, I think that when Karishima said she could see bone, she was actually seeing a white piece of coconut laying in her hand at the cut site.  I can see how she could think that in the panic of the moment--especially if she's squeamish about blood and injuries.  But she repeated it at Tribal Council, though she had been seen by medical by that point, and they presumably would have told her it was superficial and not that deep.  If it were that deep of a cut, she would have had to at least had stitches or possibly reconstructive surgery if she did cut tendons.  That would have taken her out of the game.  As I understand it, if you require medical attention--even if from the official Survivor medics--that goes beyond what any parent or school nurse with a well equipped first aid kit could do on site, you're out.  Anything that would require a trip to the ER--even just for stitches--you are out.  You are obviously given an option--like the guy who had the horrible infection near his knee--but all they can do is first aid, maybe with antibiotics, if you want to stay in.  Karishima doesn't strike me as someone who is capable of really gutting something out, so I doubt she had to deliberate between medical treatment and going home, or staying in and potentially risking losing function in her hand.  I think they patched her up with that big bandage and skedaddled.  If it had been a bigger deal, we would have had all kinds of footage featuring the handsome doctor with the accent and Jeff hovering all concerned to give her the choice.  We didn't get that, so her injury--which no doubt was painful--wasn't that bad. 

Karishma was very, very lucky that everyone was afraid Vince had an idol, and that Vince did not play that idol. 

[Nashville]

26 minutes ago, HurricaneVal said:

There is every possibility they all heard Vince in the camp, but were consciously ignoring him because they thought he was just part of production. 

That, or they assumed Vince was part of the local wildlife.  Rats and iguanas and snakes and such are climbing all over everything in and around camp day and night from Day One, so after the first few nights I doubt the occasional rustle or other noise even registers any more unless it’s right on top of you. Vince’s odds for surviving undetected were probably pretty good, so long as he didn’t absolutely faceplant it within the camp confines - or fall on top of someone. 😉 

[OldWiseOne]

18 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

She really annoys me.  All the crap about being different and being in her underwear.  The tribe is very diverse, so everyone is different and it is Survivor, so if you don't want to be in your underwear don't apply.

Or put your pants on. Nobody stripped you down to your underwear and then made a pantsless on the beach rule.

[enoughcats]

3 hours ago, Nashville said:

but an overcast rainy night in the woods with no light source is some of the blackest black you will ever experience -

Let's assume that the lightening storm off in the distance happened the night of the stealth fire snatching. (Or were the editors just using some really great footage they'd shot sometime on some island?)

On pitch black nights, lightening storms make for a lot of illumination, especially if you can remember what you've seen from one flash to the next. 

Not knowing where stealth is from, I probably shouldn't make that assumption.  But serious hunters I know could navigate really easily with that much light to get to their deer stands.

[Jobiska]

Elizabeth (Olympic swimmer) was swimming against Janet (lifeguard) and Janet wasn't really that far behind.  I commented while watching that she is shorter/shorter arms than Elizabeth, and Olympic swimmers succeed with speed alone whereas lifeguards need speed but also strength and endurance, which is what Janet's body type looks like it excels at.  

Where she slowed them down was the untying of the keys, and I have thought for umpteen seasons that one of those things that is most difficult to make equal (other than factors of nature where a heavy breeze or wave might hit someone first) would be the knots.  If two different production assistants tie them, one might tie a bit more tightly.  If the same one does, they might be more tired creating the second batch of knots.  Anyway, I don't think it was Janet's swimming that was the problem!  And the other team's puzzle ineptitude more than made up for that lag.

Unpopular opinion:  I don't mind the whispering at TC.  

I would guess that Vince was told he could not actually take a camp possession as proof.  Imagine the ruckus that would cause if they got up and the pot or the machete was gone!

[MissEwa]

5 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Yea, she's definitely like that, but that makes the fact that the others didn't even bother to pretend to care even dumber. A good player would recognize that about Karishma quickly, hell a mediocre one should since her hang-ups are super obvious. Just from a game play stand point it's so stupid to not show her any concern.

I miss @KimberStormer.

This. Maybe she's being annoying and playing it up for sympathy but this is a game about relationships so... give her sympathy? Even if you're inwardly rolling your eyes while you do it, you do it and then when it comes time to organise the vote she's in your pocket, because clearly she just wanted someone to care and you did. As annoying as she is (maybe) she's being pretty clear in what she wants from her alliance mates, so it's weird that nobody's even bothering to give it to her. 

And same. 

8 hours ago, Haleth said:

If this happened we should have seen it.  Bad editors!

Yep. But it could have been one of those pivotal conversations that would have made the vote really obvious, so they edited out to keep it suspenseful. Still bad editing IMO, but nothing they haven't done before. 

4 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

All the talk about Elizabeth wanting Vince out because he might blow her IOTI cover, but she does realize that other people are going there, right?  What’s she doing to do, vote off everyone that comes back because they might have an idol or blow her lie?  

I had actually typed your last sentence almost verbatim in my last response, then I edited it out. I agree though - if (big if) this is what happened, it's very short-sighted. 

On the other hand, maybe she's assuming that the next IotI person will be from the other tribe, so it keeps the secret safe for a while longer, and it's likely there will be a switch in there, so it might be even longer. It wouldn't be the first time someone decided on a strategy to get through the next couple of episodes without thinking beyond that. 

Or, maybe Vince played it wrong. Huge spec, but what if she approached him after he got back from IotI to compare notes and work together, and he completely brushed her off and threatened to tell people she had an idol, and that's why she targeted him. Maybe she is willing to work with IotI people who will keep a secret, but Vince didn't? I don't know. It all comes back to us not knowing what went down between then when he got back.

And maybe nothing did. Maybe they didn't speak and Elizabeth voted for him because she likes Tom and wants to keep the women's alliance. We have no actual proof that Elizabeth's vote had anything to do with IotI at all. 

[meep.meep]

17 hours ago, North of Eden said:

Episode one I wondered  how fair it was to have an Olympic swimmer on the team...tonight answered it....not very.

But the team with the Olympic swimmer lost the challenge.   Mainly because Jamal is a demon at solving puzzles, and none of them can solve one to save their lives.  Certainly neither Karishima or Dean can.

[Charlesman]

13 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

It was really idiotic to not play the idol.  He received votes at the last TC, he knew people suspected he had an idol, he knew there was a women's alliance, he knew Karishma didn't fully trust him and he watched her whisper in all the womens' ears at TC.   

How could he possibly feel secure enough not to play it, especially when it was only good for 2 TCs?

I can take a guess at factors in play, the largest of which that Vince would have "no tomorrow" if he saved himself with an idol. That is, he's already burned the men and if was going to be voted out by the women, he has no one to work with anymore anyway. So getting all (or even just some of) the girls' votes this tribal and canceling them out wouldn't mean much. 

So using the idol means he has to root for a tribe swap the next day, instead of going home to where he knows he's on the outs with everyone. Retaining the idol means he can use it next tribal (maybe necessary after a tribe swap), or, keep it and use it as a fake idol later.

Factor in his confidence in getting his Tom ploy to work and I guess he just did the math and found it was better to hope he stays, than use the idol and stick around and play with seven or eight sworn enemies for the rest of the game, however long he lasts in that situation.

[Nashville]

18 hours ago, North of Eden said:

Episode one I wondered  how fair it was to have an Olympic swimmer on the team...tonight answered it....not very.

I saw Elizabeth’s Olympic swimming background as providing an advantage solely in the area of swimming distances quickly, NOT in terms of such things as underwater agility (untying knots underwater) or underwater breath-holding, although Elizabeth’s overall Olympian physical conditioning could probably improve her capacities greatly in that respect - which was pretty much what we saw in tonight’s episode.  Elizabeth covered the swimming distance more quickly than Janet, although truthfully not THAT much more quickly (kudos Janet!).  Janet’s real bog-down wasn’t in the swimming, but in the underwater knot-untying - and IIRC each of Janet’s first two attempts at untying the knot involved Janet staying down MUCH longer than Elizabeth did on her single attempt.  Either Janet had a more difficult knot, Janet is simply that much worse at knots than Elizabeth, or Elizabeth simply got lucky on her first try.  

I did not see anything, though, which indicated Elizabeth’s Olympic background gave her an insurmountable advantage over Janet - and frankly, I was kinda rooting for Janet.  I don’t know many 59yos who would stack up that favorably in a physical comp against a 26yo Olympian, but Janet pretty much held her own.

[Bryce Lynch]

6 minutes ago, Charlesman said:

I can take a guess at factors in play, the largest of which that Vince would have "no tomorrow" if he saved himself with an idol. That is, he's already burned the men and if was going to be voted out by the women, he has no one to work with anymore anyway. So getting all (or even just some of) the girls' votes this tribal and canceling them out wouldn't mean much. 

So using the idol means he has to root for a tribe swap the next day, instead of going home to where he knows he's on the outs with everyone. Retaining the idol means he can use it next tribal (maybe necessary after a tribe swap), or, keep it and use it as a fake idol later.

Factor in his confidence in getting his Tom ploy to work and I guess he just did the math and found it was better to hope he stays, than use the idol and stick around and play with seven or eight sworn enemies for the rest of the game, however long he lasts in that situation.

I don't think he would have no tomorrow.  He could have voted for Karishma and said he was with the men all the time.  It would then be 4 men and 4 women, and both sides would need him.  

When did he previously burn the men?  All the remaining men, except Aaron were in on the Ronnie vote.  With a tribe swap likely coming soon, I suspect it would have been fairly easy to build a 7-1 consensus to boot Aaron.  

Either that, or he could have tried to work with the guys and through Tom, try to get Elaine and Elizabeth to flip on the women's alliance.  Either way, he would have had plenty of options.  

[Bryce Lynch]

2 minutes ago, Nashville said:

I saw Elizabeth’s Olympic swimming background as providing an advantage solely in the area of swimming distances quickly, NOT in terms of such things as underwater agility (untying knots underwater) or underwater breath-holding, although Elizabeth’s overall Olympian physical conditioning could probably improve her capacities greatly in that respect - which was pretty much what we saw in tonight’s episode.  Elizabeth covered the swimming distance more quickly than Janet, although truthfully not THAT much more quickly (kudos Janet!).  Janet’s real bog-down wasn’t in the swimming, but in the underwater knot-untying - and IIRC each of Janet’s first two attempts at untying the knot involved Janet staying down MUCH longer than Elizabeth did on her single attempt.  Either Janet had a more difficult knot, Janet is simply that much worse at knots than Elizabeth, or Elizabeth simply got lucky on her first try.  

I did not see anything, though, which indicated Elizabeth’s Olympic background gave her an insurmountable advantage over Janet - and frankly, I was kinda rooting for Janet.  I don’t know many 59yos who would stack up that favorably in a physical comp against a 26yo Olympian, but Janet pretty much held her own.

I was surprised that Elizabeth did so much  better than Janet on the underwater knot untying.  I was thinking that, as a lifeguard, Janet would have better practical water skills, and would ace the not untying, while Elizabeth might just be great at getting from one end of the pool to the other, very quickly.  I couldn't have been more wrong.  

[Nashville]

3 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I was surprised that Elizabeth did so much  better than Janet on the underwater knot untying.  I was thinking that, as a lifeguard, Janet would have better practical water skills, and would ace the not untying, while Elizabeth might just be great at getting from one end of the pool to the other, very quickly.  I couldn't have been more wrong.  

That pretty much paralleled my thinking.  As I said earlier: barring some kind of KnotGate - or Janet simply being shitty at knots - all I can surmise is Elizabeth simply got lucky with the knot on her first try.

[ByaNose]

BTW! The teeter totter challenge was awesome. I know they’ve done a straight bar challenge similar to this but not on this level. You got give props to the challenge people. Two bags, too. Impressive!

[peachmangosteen]

5 hours ago, Otherkate said:

I see everyone talking about a Chelsea but I still have no idea who this is?

Chelsea has had a confessional in every ep. She is the one that found the idol while getting firewood.

5 hours ago, fishcakes said:

Even so, on the surface it seems dumb that the women's alliance got rid of Vince, who was a number for them, over Tom, who's not, but it's also possible that the women's alliance is not really as strong as they're making it out to be. If it turned out that the real alliance is Janet, Elizabeth, Tom, and guy whose name I don't know, I wouldn't be shocked.

Janet is on purple but I assume you mean Elaine, who I also keep getting confused with Janet for some reason. Anyway, I also think there's a strong possibility Elizabeth and Elaine are in a trio with Tom and that they're more tied to that alliance than the women's alliance. I think the only women that are actually interested in the women's alliance are Chelsea and Missy. I wouldn't be surprised to see Karishma, Elaine, and/or Elizabeth drop it soon.

[violet and green]

11 hours ago, BusyOctober said:

It obviously was a serious cut with all the blood, but we saw no intervention from medical!

My favorite part of the 'I can see bone!' injury was the extended close-up on the hand with the tiniest trickle of blood coming out, very slowly! It was not a serious cut - though no doubt it was alarming for her; it's never pleasant to cut yourself.

I am so cross Vince has gone - and gone out like that, with an idol in his water flask. God bless Vince. I found him so sweet and funny and would have loved to see him stick around for a swap or the merge.

Of course the women don't know this, but we heard Karishma say they think she's with them, but she's not... Not sure what this means, for the future.  But I am bummed the women's alliance (minus Karishma) couldn't see around we've got strong guys, older guy with strengths who we like, and Vince who is also in our alliance of six, and someone has to go - to my mind, it was Karishma who should have been the target, and they'd still have the majority, plus the dumb and the obnoxious male 'strength', plus their/Elaine's friend Tom. So they needed to split the votes and get the men to vote Karishma, while claiming they'd vote Vince, and then all vote Karishma. Bye-bye drama, bye-bye whiny bad puzzle solver.

Plus, for all her complaints that she's older and they're 'a sorority' - she's 37, and doesn't look it. How would they necessarily know she's so 'old'? And Elaine is 41, so hardly a fair complaint, based on actual age. And then, after bitching about supposed ageism, she suggests Tom as the boot, because he's 'old'!

I'm surprised people don't recognize Chelsea. I took a strong dislike to her in ep one, for no reason, and then she found an idol (too easily), so every time she speaks I think, ugh, there's that Chelsea!

[Ms Blue Jay]

I definitely remember the idol moment, but it was all in night vision, and I had no recollection of her real face or name, so when Chelsea popped up this episode, I was like What??????

[kaygeeret]

4 hours ago, OldWiseOne said:

Or put your pants on. Nobody stripped you down to your underwear and then made a pantsless on the beach rule.

Actually I believe that production dictates what they wear.  I can't believe anyone would willingly show up in some of the junk they wear otherwise.

[violet and green]

3 minutes ago, kaygeeret said:

Actually I believe that production dictates what they wear.  I can't believe anyone would willingly show up in some of the junk they wear otherwise.

Production chooses their outfits, as I understand it, but they don't insist people strip off.

[GenerationX]

Random thoughts on episode 3 "Split the Votes"

• Nothing says "can't be discrete" like publicly alerting a splitee to their coming votes
• How much easier was the Big Ash Heist because of the background weather noise?
• This is pre-jury.  No need to draw the disingenuous sad face on your vote.

I can't believe I am actually missing some of the standard Peachy patter. 

[Otherkate]

2 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Chelsea has had a confessional in every ep. She is the one that found the idol while getting firewood.

Ah yes, thank you.

[truthaboutluv]

A day late (birthday dinner plans got in the way of my viewing last night), so I'm sure it's all been said already. But I just had to throw in my two cents about so much of the bone-headed game play on display in the episode. 

First we have Dean, Mr. "we'll split the votes", with everyone in the tribe, save for Vince, present. I literally laughed out loud when the one woman quietly said to him, "um, we're all here". Then because he still thinks his big split the vote in front of everyone is "so revolutionary", in the voting confessional, he goes, "as a famous person once said..." Really dude, whatever. 

Then there's Jamal and his arrogance which is surely going to be his downfall. I was one hundred percent with him on the whole letting it go but not forgetting because absolutely, in the game of  Survivor, if someone already screws you over once, it's smart to be wary of them. But then the easiest thing to do at that point is to NOT draw any attention to yourself, quietly take your lump and just work you way back into the fold to where no one's looking at you.

Kind of like what Jack did. But no, everyone's happily discussing how annoying Noura is (because she is) and she'd be an easy vote if they go to tribal and rather than just lay back and say nothing, he decides to try and make a move on Dan, thereby putting the spotlight squarely back on him and further convincing the players that he cannot be trusted and is playing the game very hard.

Great plan genius. Thing is, he's shown himself to be a boss this season on the puzzles so I can't see them getting rid of him if they lose next week. But I can definitely see people gunning for him right before the merge. 

As for Vince, I'm not even sure what to make of that. The thing is, great blindsides work because the other tribe members do a great job of convincing another player they have nothing to worry about. And I can understand Vince's mindset that with the idol good for two tribal councils, better to save it when he truly believed he was absolutely safe and make a big move or in case things flip on him in the next three days, use it then. 

Still, this is Survivor and you should NEVER assume you're safe and the idol was only good for two tribal councils so no point holding onto it like it was something that could be used further down the game.  That said, I feel like we missed something with the Vince vote. Because the editing made it seem like the tribe just went, "oh he's going to Island of the Idols, so he's going to have an Idol and so we need to vote him out now".

Like the hell? So they're just voting people out as soon as they know they have an idol? It makes no sense. Like is the thinking, no one in the tribe is supposed to have an idol? And the immediate reaction made even less sense because Elizabeth had been to IOTI and we didn't see any talk about immediately getting rid of her. So that just made no sense to me and so I'm convinced there was more behind that Vince vote that the editing just didn't show. 

Edited October 11, 2019 by truthaboutluv

[Steph Sometimes]

ignore. misread something.

Edited October 11, 2019 by Steph Sometimes

[deirdra]

6 hours ago, Jobiska said:

Where she slowed them down was the untying of the keys, and I have thought for umpteen seasons that one of those things that is most difficult to make equal 

Wet knots and knots tied by a leftie if you are righthanded are much harder to undo.

Noura seems to always be talking with her mouth open and cheek full of food.

Edited October 11, 2019 by deirdra

[amazingracefan]

14 hours ago, Maverick said:

Boston Rob's face during Vince's blubbering was priceless.  You could tell he was put off but trying hard (and failing) not to show it.  

His confessional was definitely more positive than I expected.

9 hours ago, BusyOctober said:

I missed Karishma actually cutting her hand, but heard "I can see bone", and I saw the rest of her tribe just lounging around while she tried to not faint.  I don't doubt she thought the cut was deep and pretty bad, and her team should have mustered up an ounce of compassion between them to at least yell over, "Hey, you OK?". But...if her cut were that deep, and bone was showing, wouldn't that mean she cut through muscle & tendon too??  Wouldn't the camera man or PA or someone behind the scene call in medical help? Wouldn't stitches be in order?  And if she did that much damage, would she be "healed" in time to got TC?  If it were down to the bone, won't it affect her ability to swim, grasp, gather wood, carry water....? I'm befuddled by her injury!  It obviously was a serious cut with all the blood, but we saw no intervention from medical!

I thought the edit seemed more against her than for.  Although they showed the others lounging, they didn't show medical rushing in to help either.  And that combined with her earlier comments that she didn't feel part of the group didn't look good for her.  When I saw her on the puzzle I immediately suspected it wouldn't go well and she'd be in trouble.

7 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

How is Elizabeth's only real alliance not Tom over Vince who she was desperate to save?  They all claimed he's their father figure.

I hate flashforwards on any show - like the Bachelor franchise.  I have no idea what the point of spoiling the later parts of the episode at the beginning is.  It pisses everyone off.  It's supposed to hook viewers in but I think it just punishes real fans.

Flashforwards and previews are for the casuals who need every enticement to watch.  I hate that catering to people who aren't even those who keep the show going anyway.

4 hours ago, treeofdreams said:

This is a bad set-up.  Everyone who is sent to the Idol Island will automatically be a target when they come back because everyone knows they had a chance at getting an idol.  That doesn't seem fair.  (Yeah, I know...Survivor...not fair...still it's a bad set-up.)

I said from the start that the chance aspect of who gets picked is ridiculous anyway.  They didn't actually show the pick this time.

19 hours ago, Lamima said:

He could have started his own fire. That's what I was thinking they meant when they said think outside the box or whatever they said. Or stolen their flint.

Stealing their flint would have revealed to the tribe that he had been there, not really the point of it.

I thought this was a decent audience blindside, I was surprised anyway.  I definitely thought Karishma was going, the whole edit looked that way, particularly with the information she felt apart from the younger women at tribal.

[amazingracefan]

2 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Still, this is Survivor and you should NEVER assume you're safe and the idol was only good for two tribal councils so no point holding onto it like it was something that could be used further down the game.  That said, I feel like we missed something with the Vince vote. Because the editing made it seem like the tribe just went, "oh he's going to Island of the Idols, so he's going to have an Idol and so we need to vote him out now".

Like the hell? So they're just voting people out as soon as they know they have an idol? It makes no sense. Like is the thinking, no one in the tribe is supposed to have an idol? And the immediate reaction made even less sense because Elizabeth had been to IOTI and we didn't see any talk about immediately getting rid of her. So that just made no sense to me and so I'm convinced there was more behind that Vince vote that the editing just didn't show. 

I wonder If they had known it was only valid for two tribals would that have changed their attitude.

The idea was probably to go for him straight away before he had any suspicion he was on the outs in the tribe.  And at a time when there was enough agreement on the tribe that a split vote was possible.

[SVNBob]

4 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

First we have Dean, Mr. "we'll split the votes", with everyone in the tribe, save for Vince, present. I literally laughed out loud and the one woman quietly saying to him, "um, we're all here". Then because he still thinks his big split the vote in front of everyone is "so revolutionary", in the voting confessional, he goes, "as a famous person once said..." Really dude, whatever. 

I took the bolded as him making fun of himself for the italicized.

[peachmangosteen]

6 hours ago, SVNBob said:

I took the bolded as him making fun of himself for the italicized.

His pre-show bio makes me think otherwise, but it's hard to tell because we haven't seen enough of him imo to get a gauge on what his personality is like.

[Nashville]

13 hours ago, amazingracefan said:

Stealing their flint would have revealed to the tribe that he had been there, not really the point of it.

When I saw the sad state of the other tribe’s fire, I personally thought Vince’s best grandstand play would have been one of these:

1. Restart/rebuild their fire FOR them, then steal a piece of it.
2. Use their flint to build at least enough fire to light the torch he was carrying.

😁

Edited October 11, 2019 by Nashville
Typo

[tvfanatic13]

To me it seemed like Vince didn’t care if he was voted out and therefore didn’t play his idol. 

[goldil]

I was hoping Vince would have stolen one of their torches. But I'm sure production would have put a stop to that.

In addition to no "Get a look at the new tribe, Molly voted out at the last tribal council," we also didn't hear Boston Rob give the "We're not playing, we can't vote, we can't win" jabber when Vince got to Big Head Island.

[peachmangosteen]

28 minutes ago, goldil said:

In addition to no "Get a look at the new tribe, Molly voted out at the last tribal council," we also didn't hear Boston Rob give the "We're not playing, we can't vote, we can't win" jabber when Vince got to Big Head Island.

Thank goodness for that. I hope they don't bring it back. Having to go through that in every ep would have been so stupid.

[NutMeg]

Three episodes in, so far so good, mostly.

The casting is good, and we see more of player dynamics than on earlier seasons.

BUT we do lose a lot of airtime getting invested in people who will go to Big Head Island (TM @goldil), and as this episode showed it can be all for nought. Spending how many minutes of a 45 min episode on the 3rd person voted out is excessive (only makes sense if all newbie seasons are now casting opps for future returnee seasons). Especially as we didn't even see how Vince and Elizabeth interacted or not about Big Head Island, or why Vince was really voted off, or why it was Elizabeth, the only one who'd been to Big Head Island, seemed to lead the charge against Vince because of his probability of having an idol.

Also, the Coming up section before the episode has to go. Because there are no credits or previously on, it's hard to skip without missing the beginning of the episode.

In summary: good cast, so so edit, bad gimmick that takes away for more important gameplay.   

[violet and green]

13 minutes ago, NutMeg said:

Especially as we didn't even see how Vince and Elizabeth interacted or not about Big Head Island, or why Vince was really voted off, or why it was Elizabeth, the only one who'd been to Big Head Island, seemed to lead the charge against Vince because of his probability of having an idol.

She said at one point to camera that she had to get rid of Vince in case he exposed her lie re Big Head, also.

[deirdra]

On 10/10/2019 at 5:27 AM, Fake Jan Brady said:

"You don't know where you're from?"

With the awkward pauses I was expecting Vince to blurt out something like "I was abandoned as a baby or captured by pirates, so no, I don't know where I'm from" and start blubbering more. I wasn't sure if Rob was asking him which Survivor tribe he was from or where he lived before coming on Survivor (Merced, California) or was actually asking the question that many non-white Americans find objectionable - "where are you from?" as in "you're foreign, not one of us, explain yourself".  Though in the end it seemed Vince was just star struck and nervous.

Edited October 13, 2019 by deirdra

[TVFan1]

According to Vince's exit interviews, he and Elizabeth did talk briefly about Island of the Idols, but it was never shown on screen.

[himela]

Tommy continues to get the winner's edit. Could it BE more obvious?

Elaine and Elizabeth are supposed to be in a women's alliance but want to keep Tom as well because they know he will be a vote for them. This is not an alliance girls. If I was the rest of the three girls I would vote them out. They are clearly looking after themselves and not the alliance. This is not big brother.

What is the matter with Jamal? Everyone loved him pre season and now he seems like a jerk. Is it the edit maybe?

[SVNBob]

8 hours ago, goldil said:

In addition to no "Get a look at the new tribe, Molly voted out at the last tribal council," we also didn't hear Boston Rob give the "We're not playing, we can't vote, we can't win" jabber when Vince got to Big Head Island.

Given that Vince himself became unable to win in this episode, it was irrelevant to his story that we hear the Oath of the Idols again.

6 hours ago, NutMeg said:

Especially as we didn't even see how Vince and Elizabeth interacted or not about Big Head Island, or why Vince was really voted off,

True that.  While it appeared that Vince was a sacrifice vote because he got selected to go to IotI, there is a secret scene that shows the seeds for voting him out were planted before the boatman ever arrived.

[MNDancemom]

I would have to re watch the episode and pay closer attention, but I feel that annoying or not, the tribe should have shown some concern for Karishma. I have been around many people I didn't care for, who have gotten hurt, and its human decency to say "Are you okay"? That is without being in a game. I would need to see how far she was from everyone and how loudly she spoke. But even Elaine, who seems to be Americas Sweetheart this season, seemed to not notice. It was just really weird. The fact that the next thing we saw, was it was nicely bandaged, also seemed off. Generally we see medical come and attend to people. Her cutting herself was part of the storyline, so therefore, we should have seen an outcome.

I was glad to see Tom did not get voted out. I tend to root for the 40 plus age group, since that is mine age group. Tom seems strong and also seems to have common sense and treats everyone as if they are valuable to the team.

If Vince was allowed to take something of substance from the other tribe, he should have, he could have come back and said, "There was a personal challenge for me, and I was able to win something for our entire tribe, so I won us this Flint, or Machette, or some spices....."

Dean.....insert foot in mouth....everyone has done that in their lifetime, his just happened to be on TV. HAHA, and he sucked at the puzzle just as much as Karishma.

As far as drawing names from the bag, is everyone's name in the bag, so you can potentially draw a name of someone from your own tribe? Or is only the competing tribes names in that bag?

I hope Idol Island doesn't take up a ton of time each episode. While I don't hate it, my reason for watching the show is the challenges, and I would hate for there to only be one challenge an episode, because of the individual challenges on the island with Sandra and Rob.

As far as clothing choices, I feel like in seasons long gone, about midway thru, the contestants all of a sudden had swimwear. Not sure if it happened at the merge or what the rational was for it. Seasons of late have been scrappy underwear, and why they think the general public likes that is beyond me. However, Karishma could leave her pants on, I notice that Elaine does, and there was a girl last season that wore her leggings the whole time, so she didn't have to be in her underwear. I would not have pegged her as being 37, she looks much younger than that.

[peachmangosteen]

6 hours ago, MNDancemom said:

Tom ... treats everyone as if they are valuable to the team.

And if you're a woman he'll make sure to give a confessional about how pleasantly surprised he is that you can actually be valuable.

Quote

As far as drawing names from the bag, is everyone's name in the bag, so you can potentially draw a name of someone from your own tribe? Or is only the competing tribes names in that bag?

I only remember when Elizabeth picked it and she was told she was picking someone from the other tribe.

[violet and green]

16 hours ago, himela said:

Tommy continues to get the winner's edit. Could it BE more obvious?

Tommy? I think he is getting the reasonably articulate narrator's edit, and will be given the chop at some point circa or shortly after the merge.

[kaygeeret]

9 hours ago, MNDancemom said:

I would have to re watch the episode and pay closer attention, but I feel that annoying or not, the tribe should have shown some concern for Karishma. I have been around many people I didn't care for, who have gotten hurt, and its human decency to say "Are you okay"? That is without being in a game. I would need to see how far she was from everyone and how loudly she spoke. But even Elaine, who seems to be Americas Sweetheart this season, seemed to not notice. It was just really weird. The fact that the next thing we saw, was it was nicely bandaged, also seemed off. Generally we see medical come and attend to people. Her cutting herself was part of the storyline, so therefore, we should have seen an outcome.

I was glad to see Tom did not get voted out. I tend to root for the 40 plus age group, since that is mine age group. Tom seems strong and also seems to have common sense and treats everyone as if they are valuable to the team.

If Vince was allowed to take something of substance from the other tribe, he should have, he could have come back and said, "There was a personal challenge for me, and I was able to win something for our entire tribe, so I won us this Flint, or Machette, or some spices....."

Dean.....insert foot in mouth....everyone has done that in their lifetime, his just happened to be on TV. HAHA, and he sucked at the puzzle just as much as Karishma.

As far as drawing names from the bag, is everyone's name in the bag, so you can potentially draw a name of someone from your own tribe? Or is only the competing tribes names in that bag?

I hope Idol Island doesn't take up a ton of time each episode. While I don't hate it, my reason for watching the show is the challenges, and I would hate for there to only be one challenge an episode, because of the individual challenges on the island with Sandra and Rob.

As far as clothing choices, I feel like in seasons long gone, about midway thru, the contestants all of a sudden had swimwear. Not sure if it happened at the merge or what the rational was for it. Seasons of late have been scrappy underwear, and why they think the general public likes that is beyond me. However, Karishma could leave her pants on, I notice that Elaine does, and there was a girl last season that wore her leggings the whole time, so she didn't have to be in her underwear. I would not have pegged her as being 37, she looks much younger than that.

Once again, it is my understanding that production takes all the clothes that the contestants have brought with them - and they specify what ti bring in the first place - and then doles out what they want you to wear.

I believe that if Karishma had a choice she would be in pants, but production does not want her to be in pants.

There may be some leeway since I first read these rules a while ago, but you don't get to dictate what you wear.

[nutty1]

On 10/10/2019 at 3:27 PM, Nashville said:

That, or they assumed Vince was part of the local wildlife.  Rats and iguanas and snakes and such are climbing all over everything in and around camp day and night from Day One, so after the first few nights I doubt the occasional rustle or other noise even registers any more unless it’s right on top of you. 

Ripping up Survivor application as I read this........

[Bryce Lynch]

12 hours ago, kaygeeret said:

Once again, it is my understanding that production takes all the clothes that the contestants have brought with them - and they specify what ti bring in the first place - and then doles out what they want you to wear.

I believe that if Karishma had a choice she would be in pants, but production does not want her to be in pants.

There may be some leeway since I first read these rules a while ago, but you don't get to dictate what you wear.

I think production decides what clothes they get to keep.  But, I don't think they leave anyone with nothing but underwear.  

She was wearing a t-shirt during part of the water scene, during the talking head where she complained about being in her underwear.  

In the scene where she cut her finger "to the bone", she was wearing a long, long sleeved, yellow top (might even be a dress) that came down to the middle of her thighs.  She was wearing the same top, and I believe long black pants (a bit hard to see on the video) at the 1st TC.

I think what often happens is that the more modest clothing options players are left with are not practical for challenges and can be too hot and uncomfortable to wear in the heat of the day.  

[Bryce Lynch]

On 10/13/2019 at 1:24 AM, himela said:

Tommy continues to get the winner's edit. Could it BE more obvious?

Elaine and Elizabeth are supposed to be in a women's alliance but want to keep Tom as well because they know he will be a vote for them. This is not an alliance girls. If I was the rest of the three girls I would vote them out. They are clearly looking after themselves and not the alliance. This is not big brother.

What is the matter with Jamal? Everyone loved him pre season and now he seems like a jerk. Is it the edit maybe?

Yes, Elizabeth and Elaine seem to be well positioned.  Ostensibly they are part of the solid women's alliance, but they are also close with Tom, which gives them more options. 

Jamal is smart, personable and a puzzle wizard, but he handled the blindside horribly.  He needs to get over himself, and act more like Jack did. 

How to handle a blindside should be one of the lessons on IOTL, but I doubt they will do it, since there is probably no way to do an idol challenge based upon it.