S04.E02: The Pool: Part Two

[qtpye]

Was Kate being bullied at the pool? It seems like the girls were just trying to set her up with a boy who likes her, though they should of told her about the real kid. Kate does not seem to have issues attracting guys, which is kind of refreshing to see. It is also nice the guys seem to like her and not in a fetishized way.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, qtpye said:

Was Kate being bullied at the pool? It seems like the girls were just trying to set her up with a boy who likes her, though they should of told her about the real kid. Kate does not seem to have issues attracting guys, which is kind of refreshing to see. It is also nice the guys seem to like her and not in a fetishized way.

I didn't think she was. I read it like Rebecca was worrying too much and it tied into her worrying about Kate present day.

[Biggie B]

I watched this episode via DVR, and fast forwarded through the pool scenes. I didn't need to see the shit show that always ensues when the Pearson family goes there - everyone will be or already is miserable from the moment they arrive to the time they leave. No interest in seeing that, it doesn't in any way enhance my viewing experience.

When I saw Rosalind Chao, I exclaimed out loud, "Keiko O'Brien!" Deep Space 9 was and still is one of my favorite Star Trek series.

Otherwise...it was a bit underwhelming of an episode. I, too, thought that Tess was going to walk out of the salon with some sort of horrendous hair cut, but instead, she looked great. Not quite sure how to interpret her scene at the end, when she put on the hat. I guess we'll see how it plays out - either she is having second thoughts about the hair cut and is regretting it, or something else. I like her character and am feeling more invested in her than the other daughters. Clearly Deja and Malik are destined to get involved - that's gonna be a train wreck, too - more so on Randall's behalf and perhaps Malik's parents, I think.

Toby - sort of sad that he had to hide his gym stuff from Kate, but I get it - the guilt he probably feels, the anxiety, etc. I think Kate will be OK with it once she finds out. 

So now, everyone's in California except Randall and his family. I hope this won't end up as two separate shows running parallel to each other, with little to no integration between story lines.  Do you think the show will ever pursue anything else with William and Randall's bio mother? I guess that ship has sailed.

[Ohiopirate02]

8 minutes ago, Biggie B said:

So now, everyone's in California except Randall and his family. I hope this won't end up as two separate shows running parallel to each other, with little to no integration between story lines.  Do you think the show will ever pursue anything else with William and Randall's bio mother? I guess that ship has sailed.

I would not mind Randall and his family being on the backburner this season.  Let the main story be Kate and Toby adjusting to their new baby with scenes of Rebecca and Miguel and a dash of Kevin working on his sobriety.  For Kate being a character introduced on day one, we know little about her.  Yes she is a daddy's girl with weight issues who has tried to be a singer, but she is the most underdeveloped Pearson.  The flashforward shows that Kate and Toby are not together, so the writers can work on showing us what happened.  I do not believe that the writers mean to kill her off because of her weight.  I think she and Toby divorce at some point. 

[Jillybean]

3 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

She was being set up to kiss a certain person.   A person that those girls knew wasn't going to be there.  They sent a different boy there instead.  A boy that liked Kate.  Kate kissed that boy so those girls wouldn't get the satisfaction of humiliating Kate and the boy she kissed.

Those girls also told Kate that she was wearing a nice coverup.   That wasn't a compliment either.   They were body shaming her.

This is exactly my reading of the situation. The girls lied to Kate and told her that a boy she liked, also liked her. In reality that wasn't true. Thankfully the situation wasn't worse, and ended rather sweetly.

[Lady Iris]

On ‎10‎/‎1‎/‎2019 at 10:02 PM, Lady Calypso said:

I'm gonna pretend that this episode was the premiere, because THIS is the show I've missed.

Last episode was such a waste of time. I didn't need to watch that episode at all, even when those characters show back up. So I'm gonna try my best to scrub it from my memory because, for all of this show's flaws, I think the last episode could have almost potentially ruined the series for me. And I genuinely do enjoy this show, even when it gets on my nerves.

This episode really went back to its roots, after they really derailed last season with whatever the hell they were doing with flash forwards, Randall/Beth marital spats, and a lot of jumbled plot stuff.

So, if they continue with the trajectory that this episode had, I may will end up enjoying this season way more than last season.

I thought I gave up on this show. I didn't watch the last few eps of last season. I watched the first ep mentally yelling, who are these people? why should we care? But, I really loved how it came together at the end and was happy to see the Family Pearson back in action this week.

On ‎10‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 12:24 AM, MadyGirl1987 said:

Baby Jack is so sweet! I don’t think I’ve seen such an adorable baby on TV since The Office(which had a knack for casting adorable babies).

Well thanks for that! Now I got Jan in my head crooning "Son of a Preacher Man" to Astrid in my head ;-)

On ‎10‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 8:52 AM, Sarah Heart said:

No. Just groceries, then we see him at the gym

And the guns. It was the Toby Gun Show last night. Who knew!?

And sound the dementia/Alzheimer's death knell for Rebecca with her stumbling for one word while trying to remember some such other.

[greeneyedscorpio]

39 minutes ago, Lady Iris said:

Well thanks for that! Now I got Jan in my head crooning "Son of a Preacher Man" to Astrid in my head 😉

laughed out loud at this!!  

[smartymarty]

Toby should have some excess skin from his weight loss. Not as much as Biggest Loser contestants, but some.

Annoyed me that Jack's speech to Kevin at the pool about being a good person included "taking care of other people." No, Jack, every male does not have to be everyone else's protector. At least it's consistent with Jack's mindset, that he was supposed to be Nicky's Superman, but he threw Kevin right into the same behavior of taking care of other people -- which makes many Pearsons come off as in everyone else's business all the time -- and hurt Adult Kevin by making him try to always be there for others before taking care of himself. And how does the episode end? With him trying to fix Nicky again. (Did appreciate Rebecca pointing some of this out, including something along the lines of "Nicky knows how to work a telephone."

[S.Batts]

While I did like this episode, I did not like that Randall's family was so far removed from the LA Pearson's.   It's like they didn't even know what was going on with baby Jack?   A phone call from Kate, or a text message from Rebecca that led to a conversation between Randall and Beth to let viewers know that they are aware about their nephew.    I think the writers dropped the ball here and could have easily had a 20 - 30 second clip to reassured viewers that Randall does care for his nephew.  

[smartymarty]

42 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

It won't spring back at all over time?   I am not saying look perfectly tight, I mean spring back to a point where he won't feel bad with how his stomach area looks.

Depends on difference between weights. People losing 100+ pounds get surgery to get rid of the excess skin.

 

36 minutes ago, S.Batts said:

conversation between Randall and Beth to let viewers know that they are aware about their nephew. 

Just for a "wow, that sucks"? Yeah, I know what you mean, but these characters are so much up in each other's business already, that I found it refreshing to not have everyone obsessing over this issue. For most of the episode, I thought Kate's failing to get upset over it wonderful -- she got the information and loves her son just as much, leading to the very independent, capable young man we saw in last week's episode.

[Wouldofshouldof]

Interesting - I did a little Googling and found this:

"When the show first aired, Metz revealed that she signed a contract with a clause requiring her to lose weight along with her character. "That was a win-win for me," she told TVLine at the time. "Because it’s one thing to try to do it on your own. But as human beings, it’s an ego thing: We’re more likely to do something for someone else."  However, she later clarified to Harper's Bazaar that there's no goal weight or deadline she's obligated to achieve."

But even more interesting - this shot of her on the cover of her memoir - younger Chrissy looks exactly like Hannah Zeile, the actress who plays teenage Kate.

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, smartymarty said:

Toby should have some excess skin from his weight loss. Not as much as Biggest Loser contestants, but some.

Annoyed me that Jack's speech to Kevin at the pool about being a good person included "taking care of other people." No, Jack, every male does not have to be everyone else's protector. At least it's consistent with Jack's mindset, that he was supposed to be Nicky's Superman, but he threw Kevin right into the same behavior of taking care of other people -- which makes many Pearsons come off as in everyone else's business all the time -- and hurt Adult Kevin by making him try to always be there for others before taking care of himself. And how does the episode end? With him trying to fix Nicky again. (Did appreciate Rebecca pointing some of this out, including something along the lines of "Nicky knows how to work a telephone."

Yes, I thought about this, too.  Jack's advice to kid Kevin was happening sometime around the time when he was having some alcohol struggles, unless I'm not remembering the timelines correctly.  What he said made me think that by directing the focus on helping others Jack was not entirely facing his own emotions.  Now adult Kevin is doing somewhat the same, trying to be at little Jack's every appointment, now going back to Pennsylvania to Uncle Nicky.  It's good that he's doing these things, but he might not be taking a direct look at his own struggles -- I think he alluded to this when he was reflecting on how he feels when the director is telling him what to do and he does it.  Rebecca urging him to keep busy and take more jobs may be good advice as far as it goes, but he probably should be going to lots of meetings and/or therapy sessions, too.

[smartymarty]

36 minutes ago, Wouldofshouldof said:

"Because it’s one thing to try to do it on your own. But as human beings, it’s an ego thing: We’re more likely to do something for someone else."

That's scary. I would think meeting a goal would only work if she does it for herself.

[Pallas]

4 hours ago, Biggie B said:

Do you think the show will ever pursue anything else with William and Randall's bio mother? 

I'm pretty sure that meeting Malik will take Randall there. Especially if Kevin remains near Pittsburgh with Nicky (and Cassidy). Randall would interact with all three if he came to Pittsburgh to look for Laurel's family.  

[ams1001]

14 hours ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

I dunno, I just wish there were more commercials. 

Especially those "exactly one minute" commercial breaks. I love those. (They know it's not worth getting up to do something else while the commercials play if we know we only have a minute; instead, we'll just stay and watch. Manipulative jerks.)

1 hour ago, smartymarty said:

That's scary. I would think meeting a goal would only work if she does it for herself.

In the short term, at least, it's easy to blow off plans when the only one missing out is yourself. That's why a lot of advice on how to exercise more suggests working out with a friend. You're less likely to give in to the temptation of your couch, or an extra hour in your nice comfy bed, when you know someone is waiting for you at the gym. (Or your paycheck may depend on it...)

Edited October 3, 2019 by ams1001

[BoogieBurns]

On 10/1/2019 at 9:26 PM, Scarlett45 said:

Long hair on girls is associated with youth in the USA, and for black women even more so. I wasn’t allowed to cut my hair until I was 21- yes TWENTY ONE, given I was being supported and educated I chose my battles. 

Fellow black girl here. My dad said no hair cuts until we were 18. But when my parents got divorced, my mom let me chop off about 4 inches (I was 13). My dad cried when she dropped me off at his house. I'm the baby of the family and he took it like he had no more little kids left.

[doodlebug]

6 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

It won't spring back at all over time?   I am not saying look perfectly tight, I mean spring back to a point where he won't feel bad with how his stomach area looks.

It depends on how the weight was distributed initially, how old the person is and how much elasticity their skin has.  Also, remember that the actor playing Toby has never weighed as much as Toby did; he has always worn padding to play the role.  They'd have to use prosthetics to give him excess skin since he has never undergone a weight loss like Toby has.  It would be a lot tougher to make him look like his skin was hanging off than it was to pad his belly.'

This show has had far worse continuity errors than this.

Edited October 4, 2019 by doodlebug

[BoogieBurns]

On 10/2/2019 at 9:05 AM, Empress1 said:

got called an Oreo too, when I was a kid. It hurts. I felt for Randall.

I was called an inside out Oreo because I am light skinned, but very black on the inside. 

Kids aren't super creative. To be fair, this didn't hurt me because confirming I was black on the inside was all I cared about. 

[spinxella]

[buckboard]

Interested in finding out in coming episodes whether Kevin skipped out on the Chicago film and flew to Pennsylvania to be with Uncle Nicky.  Or did he stop by Nicky's AFTER keeping the Chicago appointment?

[Forsaken]

On 10/2/2019 at 12:08 PM, Blakeston said:

A lot of good moments here, but man was a lot of it cringeworthy!

I get that a big theme of the episode was kids having painful experiences while their parents watch helplessly. But even things like Kate's dumb joke in front of the blind baby counselor, with Madison awkwardly cheering her on - and Randall talking about "meat sweats" - were just painful to watch.

Even the commercials were rough (at least in my part of the country.)

The scene where Kevin talks about helping the kid pick up girls, or boys. Kind of meh and try hard. The overprotective Randall. The cool whatever Randall's wife's name is.

On 10/2/2019 at 12:17 PM, Jaclyn88 said:

My guess is Toby is getting into shape not because of stress but because he’s scared something will happen to Kate because she’s obese and has been eating to excess 

for some reason I’m just not interested in anything with Randall and his family . 

I think it is a combination of a few things. Realizing he is overweight and wanting to get fit as well as just wanting some time away. Exercise kicks in endorphin's which makes you feel better too. He is exercising as a coping mechanism which also happens to be the opposite of Kate's binge eating coping mechanism. 

On 10/2/2019 at 12:56 PM, tomsmom said:

Good God that was boring. I can’t think of one thing that happened. Oh wait, Tess got a haircut. 🙄

Yeah, they rode on a bus, Toby did some exercise. Another Pearson family flashback. 

On 10/2/2019 at 2:21 PM, mommalib said:

Kid Kevin was a real jackass. I know he was a kid but his insecurity about Randall was pathetic.

Of course Randall and family run up the rocky steps, such a Randall thing to do. That's why he's my favorite character.

Kevin is an attention junkie and also craves validation. Hence why he is always so eager to help, he wants a pat on the head. Note how he turns up at his Uncle's trailer with the stupid pot plant?

On 10/2/2019 at 10:46 PM, icemiser69 said:

This was a decent episode, but I find watching these parents hover over their kids suffocating.

"Nice coverup", is rarely a compliment.   I knew Kate was being set up for something.

It was nice to see her kiss the boy, and and not give the jerks that set her up the satisfaction of wallowing in the enjoyment of their cruelty.

Adult Kate is becoming more and more a stress eater.

Toby is burning off his stress through exercise, a much healthier choice.   I hope he can convince Kate to go down that same path.

Yeah that was so obvious, the mother knew it and tried to tell Kate but Kate always knows better. The girl who plays Kate looks so smug as well. 

You can't tell Kate anything and if you try she self harms herself in some way to get back at you and reinforce her sense of autonomy. 

On 10/2/2019 at 10:52 PM, Ohiopirate02 said:

Toby working out as a form of self-care makes a lot of sense.  He needs this, but unless he opens up to Kate she is going to be hurt by it.  Toby does need to take care of Toby in order to be present for his wife and son.  

One thing that bothered my about Toby and Rebecca in this episode.  They ask Kate if she is okay knowing that she isn't.  Kate answers yes, and they leave it there.  Then they whisper behind her back that they are "concerned" for her.  Toby knows she is eating her feelings, but he doesn't do anything about it.  I don't want to continue to watch this happening.  Quit talking and do something about it.  Arrange with Madison to take Kate on a spa day while you watch Baby Jack.  Have Kevin talk to Kate if she continues to live in denial.  I think Kate is on her way to be a great mother to Jack, but she needs time to process her feelings instead of burying them.  I did like that Kate almost lost it when talking about Baby Jack watching Steelers games.  That felt natural for her to realize her son will not be able to watch the games that mean so much to her in the same way a sighted child would be able to.  

It's looking more and more likely that Kate dies of a weight related illness. Or possibly depression related like self harming. 

Kate doesn't let things go which is part of why she over eats as well. She stores her feelings so to speak. We saw in first season how she just kept blaming herself for her dad's death, she is still mourning him. 

She is difficult to help though as she just gets emotional and shuts down. So I think everyone around her just walks on eggshells and hopes for the best. Her own husband has resorted to something very out of character to cope - exercise.

[debraran]

1 hour ago, Forsaken said:

The scene where Kevin talks about helping the kid pick up girls, or boys. Kind of meh and try hard. The overprotective Randall. The cool whatever Randall's wife's name is.

I think it is a combination of a few things. Realizing he is overweight and wanting to get fit as well as just wanting some time away. Exercise kicks in endorphin's which makes you feel better too. He is exercising as a coping mechanism which also happens to be the opposite of Kate's binge eating coping mechanism. 

Yeah, they rode on a bus, Toby did some exercise. Another Pearson family flashback. 

Kevin is an att

It's looking more and more likely that Kate dies of a weight related illness. Or possibly depression related like self harming. 

Kate doesn't let things go which is part of why she over eats as well. She stores her feelings so to speak. We saw in first season how she just kept blaming herself for her dad's death, she is still mourning him. 

She is difficult to help though as she just gets emotional and shuts down. So I think everyone around her just walks on eggshells and hopes for the best. Her own husband has resorted to something very out of character to cope - exercise.

The producer said we had to remember Toby's heart issues and he is supposed to keep in shape. Having Jack reminds him the way a sick parent might kick someone else in the butt to get in better shape. He did say the Crossfit was secret but more to protect Kate from feeling worse.

I was hoping for Christy's contract/story line, to continue until the end and thought they wouldn't have her die from weight related issue so we will wait and see on that. It is a realistic issue but I didn't think TIU would do that because it seemed like "you wont lose weight, fine, we will write it in". The baby coming early was realistic and Jack having issues is common with any preemie and that is caused by many issues. I will see how they do it but I'm sure it was with discussion with Christy first.

[JudyObscure]

As soon as we knew the baby was blind I was afraid Kate would blame herself -- and she does.  It's heart breaking.  It's sad  enough to see your child suffer but to know that at some level it is, if not exactly  your fault is still something you might have prevented, is just devasting.  Kate has felt endless guilt over her father's death and now this.  I'll be expecting a full on melt down before the season is out.

[Ohiopirate02]

5 hours ago, Forsaken said:

Kevin is an attention junkie and also craves validation. Hence why he is always so eager to help, he wants a pat on the head. Note how he turns up at his Uncle's trailer with the stupid pot plant?

Yeah that was so obvious, the mother knew it and tried to tell Kate but Kate always knows better. The girl who plays Kate looks so smug as well. 

You can't tell Kate anything and if you try she self harms herself in some way to get back at you and reinforce her sense of autonomy. 

It's looking more and more likely that Kate dies of a weight related illness. Or possibly depression related like self harming. 

Kate doesn't let things go which is part of why she over eats as well. She stores her feelings so to speak. We saw in first season how she just kept blaming herself for her dad's death, she is still mourning him. 

She is difficult to help though as she just gets emotional and shuts down. So I think everyone around her just walks on eggshells and hopes for the best. Her own husband has resorted to something very out of character to cope - exercise.

Kevin craves the attention that his other siblings received from Rebecca and Jack.  The writers have done a good job of showing this in the flashbacks.  I am still chuffed and both Rebecca and Jack on how they treated Kevin in the episode where they were at the cabin.  Randall loses his glasses and it is immediately Kevin's fault.  I also noticed in this episode that Kevin was the first one to tell Jack that nothing happened with the tape.  He knew that he was going to take the blame if he was honest.  

I think Kate is the way she is because of Jack's over-protectiveness.  He keeps on telling her she is perfect so that when Rebecca is concerned Kate is immediately defensive.  Again we saw this in the Cabin episode.  Rebecca asked Jack to back her up with Kate eating junk food, and he takes her to get ice cream.  Not to mention, any time someone tells you the are "concerned" it is always super patronizing.  This could be my experience bleeding through, but I just roll my eyes whenever my mother mentions that word.  

I don't see the writers killing off Kate because of her weight.  They are smart enough to predict the backlash that would follow.   If she is dead in the future, I bet it will be some kind of accident.  I am still thinking it will be that she and Toby are divorced.  Toby was reluctant to go see Rebecca in the future.  

[Forsaken]

51 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Kevin craves the attention that his other siblings received from Rebecca and Jack.  The writers have done a good job of showing this in the flashbacks.  I am still chuffed and both Rebecca and Jack on how they treated Kevin in the episode where they were at the cabin.  Randall loses his glasses and it is immediately Kevin's fault.  I also noticed in this episode that Kevin was the first one to tell Jack that nothing happened with the tape.  He knew that he was going to take the blame if he was honest.  

I think Kate is the way she is because of Jack's over-protectiveness.  He keeps on telling her she is perfect so that when Rebecca is concerned Kate is immediately defensive.  Again we saw this in the Cabin episode.  Rebecca asked Jack to back her up with Kate eating junk food, and he takes her to get ice cream.  Not to mention, any time someone tells you the are "concerned" it is always super patronizing.  This could be my experience bleeding through, but I just roll my eyes whenever my mother mentions that word.  

I don't see the writers killing off Kate because of her weight.  They are smart enough to predict the backlash that would follow.   If she is dead in the future, I bet it will be some kind of accident.  I am still thinking it will be that she and Toby are divorced.  Toby was reluctant to go see Rebecca in the future.  

Toby and Kate being divorced is a sure thing I would say. Having her die due to weight would cause a backlash I agree. 

[nexxie]

Glad this episode is back to the show I tune in to see - a more gradual addition of new people/storylines works better imo

Edited October 4, 2019 by nexxie

[debraran]

7 hours ago, Forsaken said:

Toby and Kate being divorced is a sure thing I would say. Having her die due to weight would cause a backlash I agree. 

I agree, the producers said to lose, then took it back and must have discussed the avenues that would follow depending on the outcome. I can't see them saying, "Chrissy we want you to lose weight and we will pad you or show it on air as you lose, BUT if you don't lose, that's fine but we will have you have a stroke or heart attack by season 5.

[Colleenna]

On 10/1/2019 at 11:00 PM, bybrandy said:

I doubt it.  She's female in the future.  Short hair does not mean a woman isn't a woman.  It doesn't even mean that a woman is a lesbian.  Some of us just prefer short hair.

Yeah, but didn't she "come out" last season? 

I've worn my hair short for the last 50 years, and I am definitely straight. In the words of Bruce Villanche (sp?) I prefer d*cks, not chicks. 

[Colleenna]

9 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I don't see the writers killing off Kate because of her weight

Unless Chrissy Metz herself flops over dead from her weight.....

[Ohiopirate02]

41 minutes ago, Colleenna said:

Unless Chrissy Metz herself flops over dead from her weight.....

I don't feel comfortable talking about the health of an actress I only know from a TV show.   Her health is a personal matter to be discussed with her doctors.  None of know that she is more unhealthy than her castmates.   Just because she is overweight does not mean that she is going to die in the next 5 years from a heart attack or stroke.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 10/2/2019 at 4:56 AM, Blackie said:

I didn't think Tess would grow her hair all summer just to shave it off so I was expecting some kind of style

I’m one of those weirdos like Tess who likes to grow out my hair and then chop it off. I like there to be a visible change if I’m going to get my hair done so I often grow it down to my waist and then cut it above my shoulders. I can’t make myself go every six weeks for a trim. 

On 10/3/2019 at 9:43 AM, Biggie B said:

So now, everyone's in California except Randall and his family. I hope this won't end up as two separate shows running parallel to each other, with little to no integration between story lines.  

Well, don’t forget that Randall is also the one who has no problem dropping everything and flying to California at the last minute! 

[ams1001]

6 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I can’t make myself go every six weeks for a trim. 

This is the reason I have long hair - you can't tell when it grows out. It's generally anywhere from about shoulder-blade length to just above my shoulders. If I get it cut 4 times a year that's a lot. Usually I decide when I get there how much I'm gonna chop off and whether to add layers or not. From there I just kinda let my hairdresser do whatever she wants (I've been seeing her for years and her hair type is similar to mine so I trust her).

[Ohmo]

On 10/1/2019 at 10:09 PM, CleoCaesar said:

I'm just here for scenes of Justin Hartley cuddling baby Jack.

I thought that was great, too.  I wasn't as averse to the premiere, so when Kevin told Jack that he was the one who would help him pick up girls, I thought "Yeah, Jack's got to get ready to find Lucy."  The scenes between Kate and Kevin were great because they affirmed that however much Kevin's life is a mess, he is devoted to his biological twin, and she is bonded to him as well.

A lot of what Kate said about the circumstances of Jack's birth was very real and true for a parent.  My mother quit watching TIU years ago because the time shifting always threw her off, and I'm genuinely glad about that.  She still struggles with some of the issues that Kate addressed, and I'm now well into adulthood.  Jack's birth is going to leave an imprint on Kate.

Also, I like the dynamic between Randall and Deja.  I don't know if it's because of Sterling and Lyric, their characters, or both, but their scenes always seem to convey that, Randall is often an overprotective nerd at times, it's coming from a place of love.  I think Deja knows that and can convey that she appreciates that, which allows him to be able to back off a bit like he did with the bus.

ETA:

Quote

That almost seems like a way to use your own weight loss to concern troll your wife.

That's not the impression that I have.  I agree with those who believe that Toby is worried about Kate, but I also think that Toby is desperately trying to find something for himself that is within his control.  He can't control anything that's happening with Jack right now.  He can't restore his sight.  He's now got strangers in his house telling him what to do to keep his son safe, and, Jack isn't even walking yet.  Toby's life now has to include looking into the future in a way that other parents do not, so his addiction to exercise seems like a stress outlet to me.  Not something that he's intentionally directing at Kate.

ETA:

Quote

Quit talking and do something about it. 

But that was not the time or the place to get into that with Kate.  I understand what you're saying about the whispering, but I think it's wrong for Toby and Rebecca to decide what Kate's bandwith is to handle stress.  The moment that Rosalind Chao's character was there was not it, and to confront Kate in that moment would have been unwise.

Edited October 5, 2019 by Ohmo

[Dejana]

On 10/3/2019 at 2:14 PM, smartymarty said:

Toby should have some excess skin from his weight loss. Not as much as Biggest Loser contestants, but some.

I follow a couple on Instagram who collectively lost 400 pounds: the woman lost over 300 pounds and had major loose skin issues but her husband, who went down about 95 pounds and is more about weightlifting than cardio, doesn't (he's posted shirtless pics). I know that in reality, Chris Sullivan was wearing padding, and now the makeup team doesn't want to give themselves even more work. Still, whether a person has loose skin after weight loss depends on many things, like how much weight was lost, age, individual skin elasticity, how long the person was obese before, the type of exercise, diet/water consumption, etc. 

*

20 hours ago, debraran said:

I agree, the producers said to lose, then took it back and must have discussed the avenues that would follow depending on the outcome. I can't see them saying, "Chrissy we want you to lose weight and we will pad you or show it on air as you lose, BUT if you don't lose, that's fine but we will have you have a stroke or heart attack by season 5.

I remember a lot of balking at Chrissy's revelation about being contractually obligated to lose weight. Whatever thoughts viewers had about her size, the implications of TPTB having some sort of diet clause in a contract for this show, raised enough objections that it quickly stopped being brought up. Isn't the Kate character based on the headwriter's sister? If he's got a close family member with significant, long-term weight issues,  he should have known that a diet clause was always an iffy propostion to actually work in the case of Chrissy/Kate. This was not like some actor getting ripped in 6 weeks to be in superhero shape. If the reason Kate's storylines have generally been the weakest of the Pearson siblings is because the wtiters had a "Kate drops 200+ pounds-how does she cope?" plot all mapped out for S1-S2 but not much else, then that is on TPTB.

However, TPTB seem to want fans to like them. Kate's weight is addressed and she is shown with personal hangups about it,  but it isn't presented as an impossible barrier that holds her back from having a full life: she doesn't get a singing gig because her voice isn't good enough, not her size; the fertility specialist has misgivings about treating her at first but relents, and Kate ends up having a baby.  If Kate is dead before Rebecca, an obesity-related cause (from these writers) would surprise me. 

*

Kevin is great with kids in "fun/sensitive uncle" way but going to all of Baby Jack's medical appointments seems a bit much. Toby is probably too overwhelmed to be resentful of Kevin like he normally is.

[theatremouse]

On 10/2/2019 at 10:06 AM, gonzosgirrl said:

I know we saw Kevin heading for the airport after his talk with Kate, but then he shows up at Nicky's trailer. Are we to assume he turned down the film role then?

 I took it he flew from LA to PA and Nicky instead of to Chicago and the movie.

[alexvillage]

I think I am the dissenter here but I love Randall's family storylines.

He can be insufferable but I can see why, and OMG those girls are gorgeous! Kudos to whoever is in charge of casting the kids in the show. They are doing a very good job. Obviously, kudos to the kids themselves!

I loved the episode. I even liked the way they are dealing with the baby being blind. *There seems to be the right amount of grieving - because disability is not something that people look forward to - and acceptance - because disability is a natural part of being human and needs to be de-stigmatized. And the story fit the family dynamics. Hopefully it will continue to be played well. Extra points for making the point that narrating is a good accessibility tool. That's why blind people have been asking Netflix and others to include narration and to internet sites to include image descriptions.

*I am speaking as a non-disabled person, being on the outside of the disabled community but part of the larger disability (friends and family) community. I might be seeing things differently from someone who is blind, and if so I will totally listen to their insider perspective.

[Driad]

From one whose hair is not like Tess's:  are those little braids or little twists?  What does she have to do every morning to keep her hair looking like this?

[Brookside]

On 10/2/2019 at 6:31 PM, Marley said:

I get Kate is overweight and they said she’s overeating but like didn’t she just have the baby? She does need to do something tho because being that overweight is not healthy. I’m pretty sure she will be dead in the future tho.

I'm not overweight, but I'm pretty sure I'll be dead in the future too.  🙂 

[MBayGal]

On 10/3/2019 at 12:23 PM, Wouldofshouldof said:

But even more interesting - this shot of her on the cover of her memoir - younger Chrissy looks exactly like Hannah Zeile, the actress who plays teenage Kate.

Talk about false advertising.  I really dislike this cover.  If the title is “this is me,” the photo should look like the person it claims to be.  Must be the most intense photoshop session ever.  

[Joana]

A totally embarrassing confession coming up: I had seen some promos/caps of the season premiere and I thought Samira Wiley was now a part of the cast, which I thought was very interesting and was really looking forward to it. So, I spent the entire episode wondering when the hell she was going to show up, which took me out of it quite a lot, and when in the end it didn't happen, I was rather confused.

And then it hit me - my "Samira Wiley" was actually the teen baby dady. *hides* Although, it does make me feel a bit better to read that the actors actually are blood-related.

Edited October 6, 2019 by Joana

[Chewy101]

On 10/2/2019 at 8:43 AM, Tikichick said:

I'm wondering if Toby isn't actually covering up the beginning of a manic phase.  What worries me is the seeming compulsion to exercise -- he must get out to the gym, secretly.

I don't think we have been exposed to exercise manic yet. I think he is just unwilling to tell her where he is because they used to be weight loss partners and only one of them is following through right now. He is scared for her, and scared of her feeling passive aggressively shamed or left behind, and all he can do is take of himself and be there for his family ( and NOT go to his normal vices for consolation). When SHE was on board with fitness and weight loss, he jumped ship with the weight loss and they have exchanged roles. Two addicts trying to be on the same page isn't easy. So much emotional baggage involved. 

I say Toby should keep going.

And I really hope Kate is wearing padding, because this is getting really distressing.

It's so hard not to project onto a person with a disability, like they are missing out, even when they don't know any difference. But Kate is doing a great job recognizing that smells and sounds and touch go such a long way, and that there are so many means to recognize, learn, communicate, and feel safe. I think this episode would have been too hard to take if they had not softened us first with the last episode and now we know that Jack is ok. 

[tennisgurl]

Kevin really seems to be basing so much of his recovery on helping other people, be it Baby Jack/Kate or Nicky, and I think that ties into the conversation he had with Jack at the pool. I don’t think Kevin still really thinks of himself as a good person, so he’s helping other people to try and be “better”, which is admirable to do, but it’s probably not healthy in the long term, especially with his issues with addiction. Also, if they’re going to pair him off with the army woman, wouldn’t it be kind of complicated to have two recovering addicts in a new relationship together?

[Ohmo]

3 hours ago, Chewy101 said:

I think this episode would have been too hard to take if they had not softened us first with the last episode and now we know that Jack is ok. 

+1.  I think that's exactly why adult Jack was cast and an entire storyline written for him.

[Calvada]

My pet peeve for all shows - showing text messages that I can't read.  I sit about 10 feet from my 40-inch TV, I wear corrective lenses, get my eyes checked on an annual basis, but I am unable to read these when shown on screen.  Jane the Virgin did this ALL the time and it drove me crazy.  I have to pause and walk up to the screen to read the message.  If they won't stop this (and I'm sure they won't), at least put the text in the captioning.  

[Brookside]

On 10/3/2019 at 12:23 PM, Wouldofshouldof said:

But even more interesting - this shot of her on the cover of her memoir - younger Chrissy looks exactly like Hannah Zeile, the actress who plays teenage Kate.

If your memoir is titled "This Is Me: Loving the Person You Are Today" shouldn't the cover photo be current and untouched, not some twenty-year-old (?) glammed-up one?

[Neurochick]

On 10/2/2019 at 12:24 AM, MadyGirl1987 said:

I was glad Randall finally agreed to the bus. I was exactly Deja’s age (Freshman in high school) when I first started taking the city bus around by myself (One line went directly to my school from a half block away from our house) and it was fine. Especially when there is so many other people on it. It’s not like she was taking a nearly empty bus in the middle of the night.

I didn't get this.  I live in NYC and everybody either takes the bus or the subway.  WTF is the big deal, Randall?

[CrystalBlue]

18 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

I didn't get this.  I live in NYC and everybody either takes the bus or the subway.  WTF is the big deal, Randall?

Randall didn't grow up in the big city or on the mean streets of anywhere; he was mollycoddled by his parents and lived a cushy middle class life.  Randall gets anxious about everything, so of course a new experience in a big city involving one of his kids is going to freak him out.  Deja has more going on in street savvy than he does!

[Neurochick]

Just now, CrystalBlue said:

Randall didn't grow up in the big city or on the mean streets of anywhere; he was mollycoddled by his parents and lived a cushy middle class life.  Randall gets anxious about everything, so of course a new experience in a big city involving one of his kids is going to freak him out.  Deja has more going on in street savvy than he does!

I know that, but I don't get the impression that Randall is ignorant.  I'm sure he knows that in big cities, people take public transportation.  

[izabella]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

I know that, but I don't get the impression that Randall is ignorant.  I'm sure he knows that in big cities, people take public transportation.  

He's worried something bad might happen to her.  That's why he jumped to sit next to her when the weird guy sat next to her - he's protective.  He knows bad things happen to girls and young women everywhere - Deja herself has already been in a lot of bad situations in her life. 

If you're asking why he thinks riding the bus could be a potentially bad situation, I think it's just because he's a over-protective worrywart.  Just like he will worry something bad might happen to her when she starts driving a car. 

[debraran]

5 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Kevin really seems to be basing so much of his recovery on helping other people, be it Baby Jack/Kate or Nicky, and I think that ties into the conversation he had with Jack at the pool. I don’t think Kevin still really thinks of himself as a good person, so he’s helping other people to try and be “better”, which is admirable to do, but it’s probably not healthy in the long term, especially with his issues with addiction. Also, if they’re going to pair him off with the army woman, wouldn’t it be kind of complicated to have two recovering addicts in a new relationship together?

That's why my gut wants her to be Nicky's daughter, estranged from a previous early relationship. Who knows what producers wants but way too much addiction episodes. Jack and Nicky and Kevin and Cassie and Kate if food can be considered an addiction (and it is usually)