S07.E13: Their Last Bow

[Morrigan2575]

They got me with the Funeral Fake Out.  Between the hug after the cancer reveal and the last line "as long as we're together, what does it matter?"  I'm quite happy with this episode.  It took me a while to realize this was just a giant epilogue to the "book" but, I'll never turn down a good epilogue.

I'm sad to see this show end but, it ended well.  Although, i think i might have prefered last season's finale as a series finale.  I just loved the idea of Sherlock/Watson's next series being London Detectives.

Edited August 16, 2019 by Morrigan2575

[dubbel zout]

41 minutes ago, basiltherat said:

I sincerely hope that you guys who got stuck with later viewings because of FAKE FOOTBALL THAT DOESN'T COUNT will e-mail, write (don't send Clyde, he's way too slow) and otherwise shower your local stations with complaints.  

It's not the local affiliate's fault, it's the network's contract with the NFL.

I watched the episode on demand today, so it is available.

I love how Joan decorated the brownstone. She warmed it up and made it family friendly without totally erasing Sherlock.

I can't imagine Captain Bell (!!) wouldn't want Joan and Sherlock consulting for him, so that was one of the few moments that didn't work for me.

The Odin Reidenbach story ended with a whimper, but at least it ended in the first ten minutes or so. I was so bored by it this whole season.

All in all, a lovely wrap-up for an exceptional show.

[Gregg247]

I've thoroughly enjoyed this show for the past 7 seasons, and I'm really sorry to see it end.  This was a pretty good ending, as series finales go.  I love that they're back to working "cases-of-the-week", even though we won't be around to see them unfold.

I'm so glad they didn't screw this up! lol

Where was Clyde?  He'll probably get his own series on CBS All Access, which fans will hate because of the cursing, gratuitous nudity, and the complete 180 degree change in Clyde's character!

[Tikichick]

Sorry to see this show end.  I am very glad they did not choose to make Sherlock and Joan a romantic pairing.  The relationship they have is wonderful, special -- and was refreshing for the audience.  

Interesting to see where Sherlock and Gregson's relationship ended up -- greeted with a big hug, and the punch in the gut from Marcus also revealing deep feelings about thinking for a time Sherlock had died.

I'm going to miss this show much more than I expected.     

[rainsmom]

Just watched it a second time and loved it even more.

JLM's acting in this role is simply incredible. Understated, and yet every emotion is there, so close to the surface. The scene where he confronts Joan about her diagnosis just blows me away. His voice, the speed with which he speaks, his eyes, his body language... JLM is a master actor.

I will miss this show so much! I wish it could have kept going forever.

[Loandbehold]

5 hours ago, roseha said:

Did anyone in NYC watch yet, was the whole show run on delay as I hoped?

Really CBS should have had the respect to schedule the series finale on another. night if they have to have preseason football.

I watched it on Channel 55, which is a Long Island station. It was on the regular 10 PM time. It's possible that CBS will run the episode on Saturday night. Since networks often don't have original shows on Saturdays, they sometimes move episodes there which were preempted for some reason.

[Loandbehold]

3 hours ago, mammaM said:

It was WLNY channel 55 that aired the show last night. And CBS is rerunning it at 11:35 (yes, 11:35pm) on Saturday. And I don't know why CBS ran the show after football! Football always runs late, and timing of shows always get screwed up 

It was worse than that. It was only scheduled to run from 10:30 - 11:00 on the original WCBS schedule, so even if the (preseason!) football game ended on time, they still would only have shown the last 30 minutes. I was glad I saw that it would be on WLNY and DVR'd it. At least WCBS will be showing the episode, although late Saturday night sucks.

Edited August 16, 2019 by Loandbehold

[MarkHB]

I, too, was faked out by not-Joan's-funeral and missed the Arthur=ACD reference.  But it was a very satisfying finale for a show that I've watched since the beginning but rarely posted here about.  Sherlock Holmes has been perceived as "difficult" to bring to the screen for years, and this turned out to be one of the best interpretations ever.  I loved how, at the end, Marcus waved Holmes & Watson into his office in exactly the same way that Gregson always did; learn from the best!

Preseason football is handled differently from regular season.  The broadcasts are essentially local (even if WCBS is owned by the network), and it's up to the local station how they handle the pre-empted shows.  So, yes, the local stations' management is where those of you who were affected should direct your ire.

One of the EP's was live-tweeting on the Elementary Writers account during the show, calling out things like a couple of callbacks to the pilot, etc. Worth checking out when you have a chance!

[dubbel zout]

10 minutes ago, MarkHB said:

Preseason football is handled differently from regular season.  The broadcasts are essentially local (even if WCBS is owned by the network), and it's up to the local station how they handle the pre-empted shows.  So, yes, the local stations' management is where those of you who were affected should direct your ire.

Good to know! Thanks, @MarkHB.

[preeya]

Good ending although I kept getting vibes from some of the dialogs they were setting up a possible spinoff.

Nice to see Joan Lunden once again.

OT: I watched Lucy in "Why Women Kill" and she's really a hoot in her totally different role.

Edited August 16, 2019 by preeya

[gail56]

2 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

They got me with the Funeral Fake Out.  Between the hug after the cancer reveal and the last line "as long as we're together, what does it matter?"  I'm quite happy with this episode.  It took me a while to realize this was just a giant epilogue to the "book" but, I'll never turn down a good epilogue.

I'm sad to see this show end but, it ended well.  Although, i think i might have prefered last season's finale as a series finale.  I just loved the idea of Sherlock/Watson's next series being London Detectives.

This finale was great [made me cry] but I also would have preferred for them to be back in London!  I would have liked to have seen Moriarty also.  I read an article that they decided not to actually have her in the episode as not to take away anything from Joan and Sherlock, since ND is such a powerful presence.

[Bobbin]

I went through a dozen tissues just reading these comments.

Johnny Lee Miller has come a long way since "Zero Cool"/"Crash Overdrive" ("Hackers", 1995). Alot of top notch character studies along the way.

Sherlock never seems to care about the impact he has on other peoples' lives (including when he shot Marcus). But after his last drug relapse, it wasn't that he nearly died that provided the needed cold slap in the face, but the thought of young Arthur finding his body with a needle stuck in his arm.

So many fake-outs and false advertising.  But it all came together nicely at the end. To borrow a phrase from Pres. Josiah Bartlet, "What's next?"

Edited August 16, 2019 by Bobbin
Typo

[shapeshifter]

34 minutes ago, MarkHB said:

One of the EP's was live-tweeting on the Elementary Writers account during the show, calling out things like a couple of callbacks to the pilot, etc. Worth checking out when you have a chance!

Link?

[kieyra]

Zing! On the timing of that crack about Reichenbach avoiding having the government have him murdered in person. (A mostly throwaway line by NSA dude.)

[Morrigan2575]

1 hour ago, gail56 said:

This finale was great [made me cry] but I also would have preferred for them to be back in London!  I would have liked to have seen Moriarty also.  I read an article that they decided not to actually have her in the episode as not to take away anything from Joan and Sherlock, since ND is such a powerful presence.

While watching I was annoyed that they killed Moriarity off-screen. Then I figured the episode would be about Sherlock vs Moriarity and I was disappointed because I wanted the focus on Holmes and Watson. 

In the end, I really liked that Moriarity was a presence in the story (which is fitting for a Holmes finale) but, not actually present/taking over the show. I also liked that the show ended with Holmes/Watson going back to work and the knowledge that Moriarty is still out there and, will pop up in their lives again (as she should).

[Loandbehold]

2 hours ago, gail56 said:

This finale was great [made me cry] but I also would have preferred for them to be back in London!  I would have liked to have seen Moriarty also.  I read an article that they decided not to actually have her in the episode as not to take away anything from Joan and Sherlock, since ND is such a powerful presence.

Since they brought back Morland, if this was what concerned them, they could have had ND come back in the prior episode to make her presence felt, but then not seen in the actual finale. [minor grumble at what was an excellent finale]

[MisterGlass]

16 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

I did feel like they left the door slightly open if they ever do a TV movie or a possible revival (because that is happening more and more often) down the line, with Moriarty getting name-checked and her operation thriving.

It occurred to me that if they want to skip ahead twenty years, they could have the detective adventures of Arthur Watson and Archie Winter.  They even have the same initials.  Watson & Winter.  They could even have Clyde around helping solve futuristic mysteries, and of course get the occasional assist from their mothers and Sherlock.

20 hours ago, Magnumfangirl said:

Wasn't everything supposed to go to Joan if Sherlock died?  What'd she do with all that money??

Last year Morland visited New York and was putting his affairs in order in case of his death.  I remember some discussion about what would happen with his money.  Sherlock requested that most of it go to charity.  I think Joan was also in favor of this.  I believe Sherlock arranged a small bequest or trust for Joan.

[MarkHB]

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Link?

It starts here...

[roseha]

7 hours ago, mammaM said:

It was WLNY channel 55 that aired the show last night. And CBS is rerunning it at 11:35 (yes, 11:35pm) on Saturday. And I don't know why CBS ran the show after football! Football always runs late, and timing of shows always get screwed up 

Thanks to both of you.  I can’t believe it wasn’t shown complete here, and I couldn’t find channel 55 where I’m staying.  Thanks for the heads up about tomorrow night at 11:35 at least!

[possibilities]

I loved this show, and am not interested in football, but I figure they made football the priority because it gets higher ratings.

I actually thought they left the ending ambiguous about the nature of the Holmes-Watson relationship-- all that gazing into each others' eyes and then him taking her hand. I preferred them as partners but not lovers, but I thought they did toss a fantasy hint to shippers who wanted that, while still not breaking their promise to the rest of us.

I also thought it was a bit ridiculous for Joan to be nervous about whether Marcus would take them back. C'mon! Since when has Joan been trembling and insecure about their working options? Never. But they felt the need to diminish her in order to build Sherlock up. Sad.

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

While watching I was annoyed that they killed Moriarity off-screen.

I thought we were to conclude Moriarty is NOT dead:

Quote

WATSON: So, how was it?

HOLMES: It was interesting.

WATSON: Interesting? That's it?

HOLMES: You were expecting more?

WATSON: Yes, I was expecting more. It was Jamie Moriarty's funeral, for God's sake.

HOLMES: I told you, she's not dead.

WATSON: Right, and of course you would know.

HOLMES: She's obviously taken a page out of our book. She wants law enforcement to think she's dead so she can carry out some agenda.

WATSON: Is that why you spent almost $500 on a floral arrangement?

HOLMES: Do we still own a shovel?

WATSON: - Why? - Why do you think? You are not digging up her grave.

HOLMES: You're the one who seems to want proof she's alive. 

[pennben]

I had thought they ruined a perfect finale when they renewed for this shortened season. I was wrong. This finale was deeper and more satisfying.   

There were two moments that struck me:

1.  When Sherlock said to Joan he was going to pay respects to the captain, then the anticipation in his voice when he suggested dinner with her and Arthur after. Just wonderful to see that understated (of course), almost frightened to be rejected, excitement at spending time with her son.

2. When he gasped (or whatever the sound was) as he asked Joan if she was just going to let him leave knowing her diagnosis. There are just involuntary sounds we make when grasping grief. That was played beautifully. 

Farewell friends, keep solving cases of the week for well into the future!  

[LennieBriscoe]

Sherlock is not merely a one-woman man; he is thoroughly, notoriously, and eternally so. There is only "The Woman." And Joan Watson knows it. 

Plus, besides betraying the canon, why would the writers want to risk the common "romance between the two leads ruined the show" curse ("Moonlighting," e.g.)? This show was not a cliche.

Deep Platonic love is a television rarity, and IMO we were lucky to have seen it portrayed so brilliantly, so movingly, so honestly. 

[Morrigan2575]

6 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I thought we were to conclude Moriarty is NOT dead:

Read my whole post

[JayDub]

On 8/15/2019 at 10:57 PM, Writing Wrongs said:

I kept waiting for Moriarity to show up. And was disappointed.

What are we supposed to do now for a Sherlock fix?😞

Go to Amazon and buy the season CD's. I did and I love once a year going back and watching. 

[JayDub]

Great ending to one of my all-time favorite shows. Until I bought the 6 season CD's I've never gone back and watched a show but this is one I will go back and watch this evening to catch all the subtle nuances with the finale.

Again overall a great ending.

[LennieBriscoe]

I bought the videos through Amazon Prime. 

I never got into the Clyde thing. Nor Sherlock's rehab peeps. Nor Joan's family issues. And I really disliked the Kitty arc; she grated on me. 

But Mycroft as MI-6? Irene Adler as Moriarty? Morland as sacrifice? Gregson as romantic figure? Everyone?

Please, sir; I want some more.

Edited August 17, 2019 by LennieBriscoe

[paigow]

14 hours ago, Bobbin said:

Sherlock never seems to care about the impact he has on other peoples' lives (including when he shot Marcus).

Sherlock never shot Marcus...A suspect was shooting at Sherlock, Marcus jumped in front of the bullet. 

[MisterGlass]

Past seasons are also currently on Hulu.

11 hours ago, possibilities said:

I also thought it was a bit ridiculous for Joan to be nervous about whether Marcus would take them back. C'mon! Since when has Joan been trembling and insecure about their working options? Never. But they felt the need to diminish her in order to build Sherlock up. Sad.

I didn't see that moment as diminishing Joan.  I think she was a little uncertain about herself when she first became a detective.  I think it is realistic to be a little uncertain when restarting her career, especially after cancer treatment.  That changes people physically and mentally.  To other people, she is always confident, and her strength is unquestionable.  To Sherlock, a partner, she can express little uncertainties.

[Clanstarling]

On 8/15/2019 at 8:05 PM, aemom said:

Yes, we should have gotten Clyde and Alfredo at some point.  Other than that, great ending.

I read a little too fast and saw "Clyde Alfredo" and thought "wicked sense of humor!" LOL

On 8/16/2019 at 5:55 AM, Trey said:

Loved Marcus becoming captain after Gregson retired.  Also liked Marcus punching Sherlock - he did deserve it.

Reminded me of Sherlock's post-Reichenback Falls revival in other series - when Watson pounded on him a bit (or am I mis-remembering?)

22 hours ago, Steven Roussos said:

Yeah, FU to WKRC in Cincinnati. Finale of one of the best series EVER shunted off to 1:37 AM Sat (after midnite today, Friday.)

At first I wondered why you were FUing a 70's sitcom, I'm a bit dense this morning...

16 hours ago, preeya said:

Nice to see Joan Lunden once again.

Oh, that's who she was. I could not place her.

15 hours ago, kieyra said:

Zing! On the timing of that crack about Reichenbach avoiding having the government have him murdered in person. (A mostly throwaway line by NSA dude.)

Yeah, I paused and replayed that moment.

The ending, unfortunately, didn't have as big an impact on me, because I missed most of the lead up to it from the previous episode. But I thought it was a good series finale, nevertheless.

[SaneBrain]

On 8/15/2019 at 10:59 PM, chitowngirl said:

Satisfying ending. I thought for sure the lawyer in the beginning was Sherlock in disguise!

So I guess Moreland really is sincerely dead.

Yeah, especially with him putting an obscure quote as Joan came down.

[SaneBrain]

On 8/15/2019 at 11:06 PM, aemom said:

My husband said "Oh my God, she died!"

I said "No, that is Moriarty's funeral.  They would not do that to us.  Joan will be at home."

Thankfully, I was right.

The title gave it away for me. I knew they would be in the last scene together like they were, entering Captain Bell's office for an assignment.  But my eyes did widen for a moment.

[SaneBrain]

On 8/16/2019 at 1:38 AM, Bobbin said:

I'm sure Arthur is adopted. He's at least six and it's been just three years since the last episode. An episode a couple of seasons ago involved Joan wanting to adopt, didn't it?

A fitting series wrap-up. All good things, etc. Dang, the title theme playing as Sherlock and Joan meet with Captain Bell -- the game is afoot, and we can't be in on the chase!

Actually Sherlock talks about Joan telling him that the adoption was about to go through. It was a major factor on why he broke it off as he told Gregson on the bench.

What bothers me is the actual number of times this great show had 13 episode seasons instead of 23.  It got good numbers on some bad nights. No wonder the old networks are starting to fail.  You can't keep shortening your shows or lowering the number of shows.  I plant to start watching season 1 again soon, if I can find it.

[seacliffsal]

This series has really been my favorite adaption of Sherlock Holmes.  I admit there were (many!) tears in my eyes while watching this episode.  Like others, I missed Clyde.  Otherwise I thought it was just perfection.  It continually amazes me how many wonderful actors and shows are overlooked by the Emmys (oh well).  I thought all of the actors were tremendous throughout the series and hope they all continue to have many wonderful career opportunities, although I doubt that the chemistry all of them had together will ever be replicated.  

On a lighter note, Joan finally did what I have wanted to have happen to the brownstone for 7 years-painted and redecorated!  She did leave the media room for last (that's the discussion she had with her assistant about a super high estimate), as that was the tie-in to how the brownstone looked throughout the series.  Loved that she has Arthur enrolled in martial arts class (never too early to start!).  

I will imagine that Sherlock and Joan will have many more years together solving crimes and raising Arthur (well, and Clyde).  I will miss this show and hope that CBS and other networks will continue to develop amazing series like this; I know they don't come along often, but I am most appreciative when they do.

[shapeshifter]

20 hours ago, MisterGlass said:

It occurred to me that if they want to skip ahead twenty years, they could have the detective adventures of Arthur Watson and Archie Winter. 

This ^ sounds great to me, but, of course, only if it's done right.
--But I doubt I'll be around to see it, so I won't be vulnerable to disappointment.

[theatremouse]

On 8/16/2019 at 4:48 AM, aemom said:

They said he was adopted. But he can't be six because at one point, Joan said that he was at nursery school,  so he's younger than kindergarten age at least.

I thought he looked four the first time he showed up on screen, but he was adopted two years ago and was conspicuously older than 2 so I don't think there was any real sincere effort at a fakeout on his parentage.

On 8/16/2019 at 10:48 AM, iMonrey said:

If he doesn't want anyone to know he's still alive why is he just walking around in public undisguised?

Same reason he didn't bother with any disguises at all at the start of this season when he was not supposed to be in the country? (by which I mean: there is no good reason. This whole season left me wanting good sneaky Sherlock disguises and gave me NOTHING.)

[possibilities]

Sherlock in an Elmo costume taking photos with tourists! Sherlock as a masked DJ! Sherlock playing the Wizard in Oz behind the curtain!

[Driad]

Are we sure that was really Sherlock?  Maybe it was Clyde in a good sneaky Sherlock disguise.

[Calvada]

2 hours ago, Alistaire said:

1) Agree 101%.

2) Agree 101%.

3) Miller and Liu were the Burr and Hale of our time, and in that respect, brought noir to television in a way it hasn't been present in a very long time. They accomplished the impossible, keeping the audience guessing about the nature of their relationship until the very last minute. If CBS doesn't bring this show back until they're both white-haired, I will be watching 60 Minutes and 60 Minutes only. 

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you mean by guessing about the nature of their relationship, but to me it was a friendship, a partnership, which developed into a deep love for each other.  But always a platonic love and for me, there were never any indications it would be anything else, which is one of the reasons I so enjoyed the show.  The show runners said from the beginning it wouldn't be a romantic/sexual love, and they kept to that and showed there's more than one type of love between two people.  

[marina707]

I wasn't quite sure what to think in the beginning since my favorite part of the show has always been the main characters' relationship and they were apart for so long and weren't on the greatest of terms at the beginning, but I ended up loving it. I was surprised about the existence of Arthur because between interviews with the showrunner and a line from Joan in an episode this season, I thought they'd changed their minds about her having a kid, but I like the idea of the three of them being a happy little non-traditional family. And I loved the end, that they're going to continue having adventures and solving crimes even though we won't get to see it. I'm really going to miss this show.

On 8/16/2019 at 3:15 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Even though it might not be a romantic one, I'm glad Gregson used to word "love" to describe what Sherlock and Joan feel for each other, because that really is what they have.  Again, it might be different from the norm (for TV land, at least), but it truly is an unbreakable bond between the two.

Definitely. I thought briefly during that conversation that they were going to end up going the romantic route, given Gregson's (paraphrased) "what did I do? I married her" comment, but I'm glad they didn't, and I loved that their relationship was treated in that conversation as equally as important as Gregson's marriage.

On 8/16/2019 at 10:34 AM, EAG46 said:

It was a good ending, and important to show two people that love each other without it being romantic or sexual.  Thank you CBS and show people for keeping it that way.

Absolutely. This type of relationship is so, so rare in media and I love that they kept it true to what it was up through the end. I don't mind romance (at least well-written ones; there are far too many predictable, lazy, cookie cutter ones out there) but I love relationships like this and they're almost non-existent in media.

On 8/16/2019 at 9:29 PM, possibilities said:

I actually thought they left the ending ambiguous about the nature of the Holmes-Watson relationship-- all that gazing into each others' eyes and then him taking her hand. I preferred them as partners but not lovers, but I thought they did toss a fantasy hint to shippers who wanted that, while still not breaking their promise to the rest of us.

I thought he took her hand, too, and also thought they were trying to be ambiguous, but I noticed when watching the second time that he just briefly touched her arm and then let go; you can see that their hands aren't touching when they're walking (at least if you're talking about the scene at the end in the police station, if you're talking about a different one I missed it entirely!). But yeah, I agree with the "partners but not lovers" thing. In the interview with the showrunner I link below, the interviewer describes them as being "a couple without being romantic" which I thought was an interesting characterization.

On 8/17/2019 at 5:24 AM, Alistaire said:

I don’t understand the hostility—true animus—not to mention energy expended on rejecting Elementary as a love story in the traditional sense of the word. The online obsession with two people NOT being in love strikes me as pathological specifically because it overlooks exactly what you cite. The type of obsession started probably with The X Files; it simply was not a “thing” before the internet.

I wouldn't call it hostility or animus (and certainly not "pathological"). I think it comes more from frustration at the way media has for so long operated under the assumption that if they're telling a story about strong feelings between a man and a woman, they must be romantic. Like multiple other people have pointed out, this relationship was completely unlike anything else on TV.

I understand that for people who love romance, it might be annoying that they didn't go that route, but there are so many other shows out there where things turn romantic between the male/female leads (and even in the same genre--pretty much every procedural show with male/female cops/detectives/whatevers [who are both single and interested in the opposite sex] has relied on a 'will they/won't they' dynamic between the two; this is literally the only example I can think of where they didn't).

Also, I don't consider it to be people "rejecting" the story as a romance or "being obsessed with them not being in love", that's just acknowledging the reality of the relationship as it was written. The showrunner has been clear about that from the very beginning, and reaffirms it again in this article.

And people valuing platonic relationships before the internet absolutely was a thing, but the internet gave people a place to talk about it (as well as talk obsessively about all other aspects of TV shows!). Plus in the last few years the sheer amount of shows has grown exponentially (due to Netflix and other streaming services developing their own content) but there are still very few strong platonic male/female relationships, so the people who value those types of relationships are obviously going to be frustrated by the lack of them.

All that said, I DO consider the show to be, at its core, a love story (just as I considered X-Files to be even before the relationship between the leads turned romantic; as I consider Supernatural to be [at least assuming nothing major has changed within the past couple seasons as I'm a bit behind on that show]), it's just not a romantic one (at least not in the traditional/conventional sense; people's definitions of what's considered 'romantic' vary).

On 8/17/2019 at 5:54 AM, LennieBriscoe said:

Sherlock is not merely a one-woman man; he is thoroughly, notoriously, and eternally so. There is only "The Woman." And Joan Watson knows it.

I know you're talking about Moriarty, but I've felt since the first season finale that Joan has essentially replaced her as The Woman to Sherlock (or not even necessarily as The Woman because that title seems to focus, at least in my interpretation, on her gender/status as a love interest, but rather Most Important Person). Obviously in an entirely different way as the types of feelings he had for the two of them were very different, but I felt like his feelings for Watson had definitely become stronger by the end than his feelings for Moriarty had once been.

8 hours ago, Calvada said:

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you mean by guessing about the nature of their relationship, but to me it was a friendship, a partnership, which developed into a deep love for each other.  But always a platonic love and for me, there were never any indications it would be anything else, which is one of the reasons I so enjoyed the show.  The show runners said from the beginning it wouldn't be a romantic/sexual love, and they kept to that and showed there's more than one type of love between two people. 

I agree. There were a couple times throughout the show (and even in tonight's episode) that I thought maybe they were going to go that route (and was disappointed because, like you mentioned, the showrunners always said they wouldn't go there) just because I can't think of another show that's portrayed such a deep love (between an unrelated man and woman) without it turning romantic. I was glad they stuck to that, and that their relationship was treated as just as important as other characters' romantic relationships (and I loved that throughout the show they were almost never referred to as anything other than "partners" and didn't feel the need to clarify business/professional partners because the partnership obviously extended far beyond that even though it wasn't romantic). The "as long as we're together" line at the end pretty much said it all. You never see relationships like this in media and I love that there's at least one example showing that relationship dynamics beyond the traditional/conventional romantic one exist.

(And wow, this was long, obviously I have a lot of feelings on the subject!)

Edited August 18, 2019 by marina707
Messed up one of the quotes!

[mtlchick]

Random thought; was Arthur Lucy's real life son Rockwell?  Some of the photos on the fridge looked like some I've seen on her Instagram page.

[dargosmydaddy]

12 minutes ago, mtlchick said:

Random thought; was Arthur Lucy's real life son Rockwell?  Some of the photos on the fridge looked like some I've seen on her Instagram page.

According to IMBD he was played by Jonathan Han... but that doesn't mean they didn't use real life pictures of Rockwell as set-dressing.

[UncleChuck]

So Joan's secret signal to contact Sherlock (in hiding) was to smash his headstone?  So how would he know that if he was solving mysteries in Tuscany, Tibet, Rome and wherever?  Perhaps he set up some sort of fancy CCTV operation to watch the grave (but in a public cemetery?).

Oh well, it doesn't make sense, but it worked and somehow he saw the signal so...

But I must say--how strong is Joan Watson that she can break a huge chunk off of a granite headstone with one swing of a shovel?  A SHOVEL??

[LennieBriscoe]

Wow. I missed that gravestone-smashing scene entirely!

[MaryHedwig]

1 hour ago, UncleChuck said:

So Joan's secret signal to contact Sherlock (in hiding) was to smash his headstone?  So how would he know that if he was solving mysteries in Tuscany, Tibet, Rome and wherever?  Perhaps he set up some sort of fancy CCTV operation to watch the grave (but in a public cemetery?).

Oh well, it doesn't make sense, but it worked and somehow he saw the signal so...

But I must say--how strong is Joan Watson that she can break a huge chunk off of a granite headstone with one swing of a shovel?  A SHOVEL??

Isn't headstone-smashing on public property a felony?

[paigow]

3 hours ago, MaryHedwig said:

Isn't headstone-smashing on public property a felony?

Only if it is classified as a hate crime....

[AnimeMania]

6 hours ago, UncleChuck said:

So Joan's secret signal to contact Sherlock (in hiding) was to smash his headstone?  So how would he know that if he was solving mysteries in Tuscany, Tibet, Rome and wherever?  Perhaps he set up some sort of fancy CCTV operation to watch the grave (but in a public cemetery?).

Oh well, it doesn't make sense, but it worked and somehow he saw the signal so...

But I must say--how strong is Joan Watson that she can break a huge chunk off of a granite headstone with one swing of a shovel?  A SHOVEL??

I am sure if a grave site is vandalized, the cemetary would notify someone in the family of that fact. They probably gave Sherlock a call to let him know.

[shapeshifter]

6 hours ago, UncleChuck said:

So Joan's secret signal to contact Sherlock (in hiding) was to smash his headstone?  So how would he know that if he was solving mysteries in Tuscany, Tibet, Rome and wherever?  Perhaps he set up some sort of fancy CCTV operation to watch the grave (but in a public cemetery?).

Oh well, it doesn't make sense, but it worked and somehow he saw the signal so...

But I must say--how strong is Joan Watson that she can break a huge chunk off of a granite headstone with one swing of a shovel?  A SHOVEL??

I think my brain did a nanosecond fanwank of it being a veneer of cement over papier-mâché, but that seems more like an actual prop for the show; a trick-gravestone with a vulnerable spot seems more Sherlockian.

57 MINUTES AGO, PAIGOW SAID:

4 HOURS AGO, MARYHEDWIG SAID:

Isn't headstone-smashing on public property a felony?

Only if it is classified as a hate crime

16 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

I am sure if a grave site is vandalized, the cemetary would notify someone in the family of that fact. They probably gave Sherlock a call to let him know.

And now I'm picturing a Bat Signal.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 8/16/2019 at 4:07 AM, unicorn23 said:

The Sherlock and Joan relationship was showcased perfectly and THIS is how you write a beautiful relationship between a man and a woman without it turning into a sexual relationship. Elementary is proof that you can make a compelling show and not have the male and female characters be involved. It all comes down to how you write said characters and from the very beginning, this show has excelled in adding in so many layers to this relationship and it has paid off many times over during the show's run.

On 8/16/2019 at 8:26 AM, Loandbehold said:

Absolutely this. You see TV PTB, you can have a platonic yet loving relationship b/w two main characters, even if they are of the opposite sex. (Because we've seen many shows where main characters are the same sex and don't end up in a relationship.)

ITA - almost every other tv show has the main characters fall in love or at least hook up at some point, so it's been nice to have the Holmes/Watson relationship stay strictly platonic. You can love and support someone without developing romantic feelings or having sex. The last male/female friendship I remember seeing on tv that never wavered in staying platonic was Veronica and Wallace on Veronica Mars. Like Joan and Sherlock, it was clear that they loved each other and would risk their lives for each other but it was also clear that they were never interested in having a romantic relationship or having sex with each other, which I really loved.

[chitowngirl]

AND both characters were heterosexual. If there is a male/female platonic relationship shown, one of the two is gay.