S02.E06: The Bad Mother

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Celeste is blindsided by Mary Louise. Gordon continues to disappoint Renata. Bonnie contemplates a solution to her mother’s suffering and her own ongoing guilt. Ed entertains an unusual proposition before catching Madeline in an unguarded moment. The Monterey Five feel the pressure of increased scrutiny of Perry’s death.

Airing Sunday, July 14, 2019.

[mojoween]

I am full on hatewatching this terrible show at this point.

I could not have clockwatched more than if my eyeballs were made of actual clocks.

[humbleopinion]

Maddie dancing in her wedding dress to Ed’s choice of song...total cheese ball...actually felt bad for Reece.

Master Bation diary...is that a thing?

160K...Juliette...”other services rendered”...16 times or 32 times or 64 times or 128 sexy times with Gordon...guessing $500 a tryst....

My eyeballs rolled out of my head and under the couch..

Best news...next week is the finale...this was not a worthy piggyback to an excellent Season One of big little lies.

Celeste has to mount the white horse and save herself....

Edited July 15, 2019 by humbleopinion

[QuinnM]

So Gordon was paying Juliette under the table to put up with Renata?  I’m still laughing.

I really wonder why ML didn’t have to testify.  If Celeste’s attorney didn’t ask for that then she is really bad.  Did she even ask Celeste if there was anything crazy with ML then why give her a check at all.  

And if I were Jane I would move.  Move now.  If you don’t want to leave town then get the hell out of that apartment.

And I’m hate watching as well.  I just keep watching hoping I’ll get something.  I still love the performances but I want something more.

[CleoCaesar]

What the bleep was that. 50 minutes of sheer idiocy in the courtroom. And pretty much everywhere else.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go find some children I'm tangentially related to and file for full custody because their mother pushed them once and took sleep medication after her husband's violent death.

[Maire]

So bad, so unrealistic and a waste of some great actresses.

[formerlyfreedom]

6 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

So Gordon was paying Juliette under the table to put up with Renata?  I’m still laughing.

I thought Gordon was paying Juliette under the table for what she was *a-hem* doing for HIM 'under the table'?

4 minutes ago, CleoCaesar said:

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go find some children I'm tangentially related to and file for full custody because their mother pushed them once and took sleep medication after her husband's violent death.

I will say, having a sad and tiny bit of experience with family legal situations, this is as silly and ridiculous as we all agree.

But damn if it's not giving us some great work from a few of these women.

[ihartcoffee]

That was so uncomfortable to watch.....

[Paws]

So stupid on so many levels.  I know nothing  about custody hearings but I’m 900 percent certain they aren’t open to the public and that they don’t go into huge detail about mommy’s sex life. Strange men in the house yes but the number of people fucked? Would that EVER happen to a man? And ML gets to just...take the kids? As if she’s great? Her son was a raping wifebeater.

everyone else’s stories were fine but this was utter nonsense.

[Ellaria]

3 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

And if I were Jane I would move.  Move now.  If you don’t want to leave town then get the hell out of that apartment.

And I’m hate watching as well.  I just keep watching hoping I’ll get something.  I still love the performances but I want something more.

I actually screamed out loud at the TV to tell Jane to move away from this madness. Save herself and Ziggy while she still can.

The Madeline/Ed relationship drama seems like an entirely different show. Madeline just drops by now and then by to have a chat with the rest of the Monterey 5 and show up in court. Did we really need Ms. Boob Job and her lists?

I don’t care about Bonnie’s parents and I’m starting not to care about Bonnie. Yes, I’m sure that she is tormented about pushing Perry but it’s not a compelling storyline right now.

4 minutes ago, saoirse said:

I thought Gordon was paying Juliette under the table for what she was *a-hem* doing for HIM 'under the table'?

That’s EXACTLY what I thought Gordon was paying Juliette for, too. Wonder how they arrived at the figure of $160,000?

I’m hate watching now, too. The great performances can’t save a meandering story. Too many characters. Too many choppy scenes. Too much angst and misery.

[sashayshante]

So they teased stuff with Cory and the father's other family and then...nothing?

And they tease Ed sleeping with Tits Mgee and then...nothing?

Like others have said, this was a fucking waste.

[juno]

Adam Scott is so underrated on this show. He brings humor and hurt and sadness to his scenes and I really enjoy all of his and Reese's scenes together.

Meryl Streep is overrated. One note character that has been brought in to be this season's baddie. My hope with the cross next week a question that I have been asking all season.

Why would the mother of a known rapist and abuser and criminal be given any time by anyone including the judge? Why wouldn't she be accused of being partially responsible for creating a monster? Wouldn't raising 2 more boys be considered a greater threat than a mother that is taking sleeping pills?

There are really other interesting questions from this season. These questions are given to the audience.

Can we sympathize and feel love and compassion for Celeste but still feel like she is a bad mother? Just because she is a bad mother should she lose her children? Also with love and support from friends and assistance from her therapist will she get on her feet, reclaim her life and become a better mom?

[txhorns79]

4 minutes ago, juno said:

Can we sympathize and feel love and compassion for Celeste but still feel like she is a bad mother?

Yes.  I think Celeste has made some questionable choices this season, and it's a huge red flag that she appears to be taking medication, blacking out and having lots of random sex.  Having said that, she was terrorized by her now dead husband for what must have been years, which I think would leave almost anyone really messed up.  I sympathize with her heavily over that.

I can't with the courtroom scenes.  Family court custody hearings are rarely, if ever, open to the public.  While a parent's sex life could certainly be an issue that comes up during testimony, I've never heard of a judge in the 21st century allowing for such invasive questioning, much less opining on a parent's sex life in the manner this judge did.  It's just too much.     

[One Imaginary Girl]

I hope this sudden turn at the custody hearing means that Celeste is going to ask about the dead son.

[Irlandesa]

39 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

So Gordon was paying Juliette under the table to put up with Renata?  I’m still laughing.

As others have mentioned, "stress relief" implied sexual activities.  But all of that was ridiculous.  I know they're rich but what kind of young nanny earns a severance of $72,000?  I would think you'd have to be a family with a lifetime to earn that.  And what kind of bloody fool would try to go on record as providing sex work in an official forum?

The whole slut shaming custody hearing was ridiculous.  It reminds me a bit of the first season of Goliath, which David E. Kelly also wrote, and how that went off the rails the closer we got to actual courtroom scenes. 

[Melina22]

Not hatewatching. Sure, this show is completely bonkers on so many levels, but I'm highly enjoying it. Can't wait for next week. 

[chocolatine]

This is all too ridiculous. The judge doesn't even think about assessing ML's fitness as a parent until Celeste asks her to? Baloney!

This episode felt like network television.

[scrb]

Even if they discussed Celeste’s trysts, how would they know and be able to get pictures of these men?

Would have taken private investigators chasing leads for months.

That would be a lot of money.

Then that 3D simulation and ML’s lawyer suggests Celeste pushed Perry?

Apparently ML has a big bank account and this lawyer billed her left and right.

Yeah as soon as they had that scene of the doe-eyed nanny, you knew it was coming up.  What did that guy do, take Renata’s money, buy expensive model trains, promise money to the nanny and then ultimately blow it all on insider trading?

OK, but Renata countenanced it for years, if not fund that lifestyle.

Edited July 15, 2019 by scrb

[WaltersHair]

I just don't understand where the writing went this year.

I do enjoy the performances, the cinematography, the atmosphere.

Re: the court case. I don't think there is any court lawyer that Wouldn't examine the prospective GM-give her psychological tests and put her on the stand to prove that she is better than a child's own mother for custody. The "I will cross her myself" was bunk.

Not done with thinking Corey is going to be a dark horse next week.

[Razzberry]

Was surprised that Celeste was boinking so many guys, but it's irrelevant.   Her lawyer is next to worthless, as messed up as Celeste is she'd still do a better job.  This whole premise has been completely unrealistic from the get-go - and yet, I'm loving every minute of it.  Can't wait for ML to get torn a new one next week.

Bonnie: "Can't we just kill her?"  lol

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, ihartcoffee said:

That was so uncomfortable to watch.....

The Bonnie stuff was very uncomfortable for me to watch.

Like I've complained about the car crashes, the show is way too self-indulgent and intent on shocking viewers with absolutely no outside value.  How many times did this episode pull the "Now we'll show you something really fucking shocking - oh oops it didn't actually happen".  Confessing in court.  KILLING HER OWN FUCKING MOTHER.  Etc. etc. etc. etc.  Pull back.  Oh it's just a dream sequence.  Really, really manipulative.

I did really enjoy Nicole this episode, though, and I normally don't go crazy for her on this show.  And I loved the montage of all the men she, let's say, played around with.

Renata in the car was so funny hahahaha.

So right after Perry falls down the stairs, somebody is taking pictures of everyone?  hahahahhHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA THAT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN!  There's no way the cops got there that fast.  That was supposedly photos from the partygoers.  

Edited July 15, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

Yes.  I think Celeste has made some questionable choices this season, and it's a huge red flag that she appears to be taking medication, blacking out and having lots of random sex.  

For me, the random sex isn't really an issue.  That affects the boys how?  What scares me is the Ambien and the driving.

1 hour ago, Melina22 said:

Not hatewatching. Sure, this show is completely bonkers on so many levels, but I'm highly enjoying it. Can't wait for next week. 

I thought it was "better" than last week I guess.  Last week, nothing happened, and this week, they made EVERYTHING happen.  The juxtaposition between Bonnie fantasizing about killing her own mother every 5 minutes and Celeste's court scene was way too much for me to take.

The rest, Renata, Tits McGee etc. is the much needed comic relief.

 

22 minutes ago, scrb said:

Then that 3D simulation and ML’s lawyer suggests Celeste pushed Perry?

How the hell would a family court lawyer have any expertise for that?  He didn't call any expert to the stand.  Nobody objects to the science?  That made no sense at all.

[scrb]

BTW, Bonnie had all this pent-up anger towards her mother and unleashes it on Perry.

Simulate that!

[SourK]

I hate Mary Louise so much. Which is the intended reaction, so good job, show. In all seriousness this is my favourite Meryl Streep performance because it's understated and relentlessly unlikable -- something I don't think I've seen her do before.

14 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

For me, the random sex isn't really an issue.  That affects the boys how?  What scares me is the Ambien and the driving.

...

How the hell would a family court lawyer have any expertise for that?  He didn't call any expert to the stand.  Nobody objects to the science?  That made no sense at all.

This is his big moment! His lame custody hearing is turning into a murder trial! (I think what we're meant to infer is that the police are giving him a bunch of stuff because they want to use the custody hearing as a way to flush out evidence about the murder; that's weird and not appropriate, but I think that's what's happening).

For the sex and ambien, I agree with the addition that the ambien is pretty easy to explain. You say, "I was taking ambien and I had an adverse reaction to it that no one predicted, and I woke up in my car one time not knowing how I got there. It was really scary, so I've stopped taking ambien." Done.

I was really, really frustrated by the questioning about her sex life. I don't know how these things go in real life, but I feel like somebody would need to make at least a token effort to explain how this had a substantial impact on her children.

[Slovenly Muse]

This is my first time checking in on this forum, so forgive me if I'm just repeating everything you guys have been complaining about all season, but YEESH.

With the news that broke this week about the behind-the-scenes drama of this season, I'm not surprised it's a mess, but there's more at work here than just stylistic or editing issues. The writing this season is TERRIBLE.

I had the interesting experience of rewatching season 1 last week while on vacation with someone who wanted to see it, and it really puts this season into perspective. So much of season one was built on mystery, intrigue, and a sort of intensity that was genuinely difficult to watch at times. Celeste's scenes with her therapist were heart-wrenching, but also sensitive and nuanced, and one of the most human and complex portrayals of "the battered woman" that I've ever seen. That was all 100% Lianne Moriarty. It took Celeste all last season to come to terms with the fact that her husband was a monster, and he wasn't going to get better. This season, we're almost at the end, and it seems she's only now STARTING a journey of figuring out what her hazy healing/grieving process has even been. Last season, she wanted to go back to work and reclaim her life. But I guess the idea of her having a life outside her family was just dropped?

Last season, Madeleine was a holy terror. She had a hundred projects on the go at once, to make herself feel better about being a stay at home mom. She was an insufferable busybody with her nose in EVERYONE's business. This is a woman who intentionally ruined a child's birthday party, because of a slight by the child's mother. She intervened to try and track down her new friend's rapist, even though no one asked her to, because she couldn't bear to do nothing and pathologically had to solve everyone else's problems. This season? She's spinning her wheels trying to convince her husband not to leave her and doing almost nothing else.

Last season, Renatta was losing her damn mind being one of the most powerful people in Monterey who STILL didn't have the power to protect her daughter at school. Watching her slow but steady breakdown as she failed again and again to solve this problem through sheer force of money and personality, was a thing of beauty. This season? She hasn't DONE anything. Her husband did something (because he's now cartoonishly evil I guess), and now she's just caught up in the consequences, basically watching it happen. What a waste of an amazing character.

Last season, Bonnie was inexperienced as a parent of a teenager, struggling to be a stepmom to Abigail and navigate the complicated boundaries involved in their step-relationship. This season? She's been looking sad a lot and remembering things that happened last season.

Last season, Jane was trying to start a new life, but also try to track down and confront her rapist while dealing with her fear that Ziggy might turn out like his father. This season? She's dating a piece of cardboard who respects her boundaries.

I'd be tempted to say all the action has shifted over to the men, but that's not true either! Ed, Nathan, Jane's new boyfriend... none of them have DONE anything, and the only one who DID do something is Gordon, and he did it off-screen, so he's now a passive spectator to the consequences of his actions. Even Mary Louise hasn't really done much, besides petition for custody, but that took 5 episodes!

ALL the urgency, action, mystery, intrigue... all the layers of character development, and the sticky explorations of complicated family dynamics, the relationships between parents and children (and children/children, parents/parents), the reason the show existed in the first place, it has all been unceremoniously dropped for... a very thin courtroom battle of laughable realism?

My expectations could not be lower for the finale, and that is a real bummer after enjoying so much of what the first season set out to accomplish. This dull, pointless season has absolutely no vision, and as far as I'm concerned it has long missed its window to justify its existence.

Edited July 15, 2019 by Slovenly Muse
To provide the link to the article I alluded to.

[answerphone]

I laughed out loud when the nanny stated she was owed her "stress relief" payment. When she said that, I also thought she was providing a sexual service to him.

Renata in the car was epic.

Did anyone else think the scene with Celeste applying her makeup was supposed to be immediately after chugging the vodka? I assumed she was fixing herself up to go on a drunken prowel for a guy.

Ed making the cut for Tits McGee's lists 🤣🤣

They've spent too much time on Bonnie's mother's story this season.

I miss Ziggy's cute face and Chloe's eye rolls. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

16 minutes ago, Slovenly Muse said:

I'd be tempted to say all the action has shifted over to the men, but that's not true either! Ed, Nathan, Jane's new boyfriend... none of them have DONE anything, and the only one who DID do something is Gordon, and he did it off-screen, so he's now a passive spectator to the consequences of his actions

I understand your frustration about the season.  I think it's obvious the writing is a lot worse too, since the first season was actually based on something, but I also think that a lot of what you're talking about is supposed to be explained by the women dealing with the aftermath of Perry being murdered either in front of or by them, and Celeste dealing with the grief of Perry's death.  They are all supposed to be traumatized by the murder, and unraveling.  So that's why they've "changed".  They telegraph it hard with Bonnie, and somewhat with Madeleine, especially Bonnie's remarks to Madeleine here and there.

I've been complaining about the Gordon story since the first episode of this season. It's never going to be fully explained exactly what's going on, what Gordon or Renata's actual jobs are/were and those kind of details being left out drive me insane.

Edited July 15, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[Bama]

Mary Louise needs killing.

That’s all I’ve got.

[Ms Blue Jay]

14 minutes ago, answerphone said:

I miss Ziggy's cute face and Chloe's eye rolls. 

Was Ziggy's face ever shown? I honestly feel like they got a body double and dubbed in Ziggy's lines after so that they could pass child labour laws.  It was the weirdest scene ever.

I feel like it was out of character for Ed to call Mrs. McGee, and I don't really get it.  I "get" that Madeleine is acting weird and he's supposed to be upset by it, but I still really don't think that this is him.

[freebie]

55 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

This episode felt like network television.

So much word. I get that it's TV, plus I'm a lawyer, so I'm used to suspending disbelief in the interest of telling a good story. But this was just too much. The packed courtroom, the random photos of the guys, and the simulation video. What even? I assumed it came from Det. Suspicious Minds, but even so, that just cannot happen, in any case.

Speaking of which, what was up with the detective showing interview footage to Mary Louise? I get that she wants to solve the mystery, but she's interfering in a private custody matter in a way that could have far-reaching consequences. Does she not get that her end game - presumably putting pressure on the Monterey 5, especially Celeste - could result in the twins being raised by the parent of the physically violent guy whose death she's trying to solve?

One of the big problems with this season is that the detective is such a cypher you could assign any number of reasons for her extreme interest in this situation. And any of them would be more interesting than the big fat zero in terms of characterization that we have now. Maybe - in an amazing plot twist - the detective is actually investigating the death of Perry's brother, and this is all just part of an elaborate ruse to lure Mary Louise to Monterey!

I did like the juxtaposition of Bonnie's conflict with her own "bad mother" with the more obvious focus on Celeste's actions. I'm still looking forward to next week when (I hope) Celeste reduces Mary Louise to ash with a merciless examination. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

41 minutes ago, SourK said:

For the sex and ambien, I agree with the addition that the ambien is pretty easy to explain. You say, "I was taking ambien and I had an adverse reaction to it that no one predicted, and I woke up in my car one time not knowing how I got there. It was really scary, so I've stopped taking ambien." Done.

Well, that would be perjury.  

The entire episode, Celeste told the truth no matter how hard it was for her and no matter how much she was "publicly" humiliated and on the stand and was incredibly painstaking about avoiding committing perjury - until the part where she was asked how Perry died.  That's why Bonnie was so visibly upset and why she kept fantasizing about standing up in court and confessing and why the episode ended with her actually confessing to her mother.  

Edited July 15, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[Slovenly Muse]

27 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I understand your frustration about the season.  I think it's obvious the writing is a lot worse too, since the first season was actually based on something, but I also think that a lot of what you're talking about is supposed to be explained by the women dealing with the aftermath of Perry being murdered either in front of or by them, and Celeste dealing with the grief of Perry's death.  They are all supposed to be traumatized by the murder, and unraveling.  So that's why they've "changed".  They telegraph it hard with Bonnie, and somewhat with Madeleine, especially Bonnie's remarks to Madeleine here and there.

I hear you. I think my frustration really is that, while they may be unraveling, this is not translating to action. The investigation that could expose them has almost no sense of urgency. They aren't taking actions to cover up what they did, or respond to their fears and traumas in active ways. I want to see the psychological effects of losing an abusive father on those twins, and how Celeste relates to them now. I want to see how watching her rapist die in front of her has helped (or worsened) Jane's paranoid desire to sleep with a gun under her pillow in constant fear of an intruder. I want to see the classroom dynamics at school and how ALL the kids involved are dealing with each other. I want to see Madeleine realize that with all her prying and sticking her nose into other people's business, she never knew her best friend was being abused, and how that affects her pathological need to involve herself in every situation, since she obviously wasn't involved ENOUGH with Celeste. I want to see Bonnie worry that because she committed an act of violence, SHE might be turning into the violent mother she resents, and struggling even harder to relate to Abigail and Skye as a result. I want to see Renata in a position to lose everything she's worked for because of something SHE did (or helped cover up), not just something her worthless excuse of a husband did behind her back.

Basically, I'm fine with a season about the "Monterey 5" unraveling, but I want to know what that MEANS, not just what it looks like.

[Cheezwiz]

54 minutes ago, answerphone said:

They've spent too much time on Bonnie's mother's story this season.

I'd have to agree with this, and Bonnie's mother has been completely inert in a hospital for most of it!

This season is definitely not up to par with Season 1 (and I was saddened to see that HBO wrested control from Andrea Arnold who is an amazing director). The main problem is with the writing, so yeah, we're looking at YOU David E. Kelley. Much of this season feels like bargain basement scripts from "The Practice".

That being said, I'm still enjoying the performances from all of the actresses.

Renata sure picked a winner didn't she? In addition to blowing through all of her earnings, her husband was boinking the nanny and promising payment for extra services rendered! 

Zoe Kravitz did a great job with the scene reading from her confession book in the hospital, but I wish her Mom would either wake up, or pass away or something. Having a whole plot line based on a comatose character is tiresome. Clearly that diary is going to wind up in the wrong hands somehow.

Also bored with the Madeline/Ed will they won't they stay together storyline. Don't really care if Ed boffs Chesty McChesterton at this point.

Nicole continues to knock it out of the park, even with the ludicrous courtroom writing. I was hoping we'd get more layered insight into Perry's past, but I guess we're going to have to wait and see if Celeste drags it into the sunlight in her cross-examination (which is an admittedly ridiculous plot point that no judge would probably agree to). Regardless, I want to see her annihilate Mary Louise next court date, and I hope she dredges up something good!

[jeansheridan]

As I feared, David E. Kelly loves courtroom dramatics. This sucked so hard other than Kidman did her best and I love the character actress playing the judge. And Renata's snarled comment to Celeste's crappy, silent lawyer.

I do like that Perry's death didn't "heal" Celeste and that she is clearly working through some major issues. The random sex would be okay if it made her feel better,  but bringing strange men home and getting blackout drunk/drugged around the boys is concerning. She needs a lot of help. 

Jane gives me hope. She does seem the one who can take on Mary Louise. But damn, how on Earth did she get Ziggy to tell her about the gun???

[FemmyV]

3 hours ago, juno said:

Why would the mother of a known rapist and abuser and criminal be given any time by anyone including the judge? Why wouldn't she be accused of being partially responsible for creating a monster?

This was my biggest problem, throughout the episode. And it's a shame that it was held back for a big dramatic ending, because not having it, not being shown Celeste documenting all of ML's manipulations and stalking - yes, stalking - is such a huge departure from reality. She stalked Jane and Ziggy, she paid someone (we assume) to stalk Celeste. ML crossing the line has been addressed repeatedly, but not to the lawyer? No buy.

And again, contrived so we can have the big payoff of Celeste representing herself and turning the tables on ML in the courtroom. *sigh*

2 hours ago, One Imaginary Girl said:

I hope this sudden turn at the custody hearing means that Celeste is going to ask about the dead son.

Next week's description indicates that's exactly what's going to happen.

2 hours ago, scrb said:

Even if they discussed Celeste’s trysts, how would they know and be able to get pictures of these men?

Was it just me, or did the guy in the last photo resemble Keith Urban? Bit of a gag, no?

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

The Bonnie stuff was very uncomfortable for me to watch.

Very uncomfortable but I'm glad it's there. I'm glad the show is depicting the effects of domestic abuse in so many various ways: showing what victims go through, what they do to themselves, and how resolution doesn't come wrapped up in a few weeks/months of therapy.

When all is said and done, no, I'm not hate-watching. This is nowhere near the debacle of what happened with GoT.  (Actually, I'm having fun right this moment, imagining EC's Dany on that stand. "Tell us why you flipped ..." would have been so much more than D and D gave viewers.)

So, I'm watching to see Celeste make ML her bitch next week, assuming she will and even knowing it's been contrived; to see how Bonnie works out her shit; and to see if Ed takes his revenge fuck.

ETA: Has there been an episode this season, where Renata hasn't set off a metal detector?

Edited July 15, 2019 by FemmyV

[bybrandy]

Nanny is nuts.  Claiming 160,000 for "relaxation" services rendered outs her as somebody who will sleep with the dads for cash.   Something tells me she's not getting hired anywhere else like ever.  Okay, she'll probably get hired by Renata after she axes Gordon, but still... this was absurd.  

Although Renata's fucking post reveal rant was fucking brilliant.

Edited July 15, 2019 by bybrandy
two ns are better than one.

[Armchair Critic]

Bonnie said she married a man she doesn't ------ (love?!?)

[answerphone]

Did anyone wonder if Jane will use that gun in the finale?

[zobot81]

I want to know who's calculating fall physics for the prosecution -- because a 1 foot difference in distance doesn't seem calculable.

[Melina22]

19 minutes ago, zobot81 said:

want to know who's calculating fall physics for the prosecution -- because a 1 foot difference in distance doesn't seem calculable.

That's exactly what I thought, only way less succinctly. 

[txhorns79]

7 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

For me, the random sex isn't really an issue.  That affects the boys how?  What scares me is the Ambien and the driving. 

She's bringing some of these men into her home without knowing much, if anything, about them.  For all she knows, the guy could be dangerous and harm her or her sons.  At best, that's reckless behavior.  And yes, I know that she was married to someone who did physically harm her, so getting to know someone first isn't always a good screen, but to just bring home randoms is a bad idea as well.    

31 minutes ago, zobot81 said:

I want to know who's calculating fall physics for the prosecution -- because a 1 foot difference in distance doesn't seem calculable.

There was a 48 Hours episode a few years back where the police were trying to determine whether a woman had slipped or was pushed, while she fell off the side of a cliff while hiking.  I may be wrong, but I do think they were able to do the calculations as to where she would be in a situation where she slipped versus being pushed, even though the distance between the two was not huge. 

[sashayshante]

8 hours ago, WaltersHair said:

Not done with thinking Corey is going to be a dark horse next week. 

Same.

[Haleth]

Oh, Celeste.  How could she not have known ML was going to find out about all the men?  Is she that naive?  Glad she will have her chance to question ML next week.

Oh, Gordon.  How could he not have known Renata would find out about the little French nanny?  That was really, really stupid.

So after all that discussion last week Corey isn't a cop.  (Or is he lying?)  Either way he needs to stay away from Jane for a while.  Was that a different child playing Ziggy?  We never really saw his face so maybe the young actor was too busy with his other show?

6 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

Zoe Kravitz did a great job with the scene reading from her confession book in the hospital, but I wish her Mom would either wake up, or pass away or something

She'll probably wake up.  The tear indicated she heard every word.

6 hours ago, FemmyV said:

ETA: Has there been an episode this season, where Renata hasn't set off a metal detector?

No, it's been a running joke.

I expect next week will be Meryl's Emmy submission.

[Chaos Theory]

I think people a missing a huge point that people who aren’t hate watching or finding the show ridiculous have been saying about the show from the start.   We don’t believe women unless we see it with our own eyes.  If we hadn’t seen Perry beat Celeste or knew for a fact that he raped Jane there there would most defently be an entire faction of people who would be saying “I bet one or both of them are lying.”      

We also see Celeste being questioned on things a man would never get questioned on.  What man would get questioned on his sex life?  Look at Renata.  Her husband CHEATED ON HER.  And she is still being played up as a strident bitch.  

I think this episode pass or fail tried to explain what some people where saying about Perry’s death. .  Who would believe the ladies if they told the truth?  Hey Celeste weren’t you going to leave him?   Jane did you ever report being raped?  Wouldn’t it be more an affair if we were being honest?   This was more a fight that got out of hand and one of you ladies....pushed him.  

The only thing I found silly was that the judge didn’t question Mary Louise from the start.  But then we need a final episode don’t we?

Edited July 15, 2019 by Chaos Theory

[lala2]

I'm a family lawyer, and where I practice, family cases are definitely open to the public. They are not closed proceedings so anyone can sit in the courtroom and observe. Again, where I practice, if a judge has scheduled a single custody hrg for the day, the courtroom is usually not packed though ppl can still observe. It's not packed because most ppl have better things to do with their time than watch random ppl's custody proceedings. That said, I saw nothing unbelievable about the open courtroom. I could also see a lawyer bringing up the number of sexual partners a parent has and his/her drug use as a way to show the court that the parent is unfit. Bringing a lot of random men/women around your kids could be problematic. The most problematic thing Celeste did was bring this random man to her home. He could have molested her children while she was passed out or robbed them. It's just not a good look in custody court. 

I have no idea why this hearing was concluding without ML getting on the stand. That made no sense to me and was the most unbelievable thing about this hearing. This was not a child abuse/neglect proceeding, which would be closed to the public; this was a custody hearing. ML would definitely testify. And that's assuming ML even has standing to petition the court for custody, but I am not familiar w/CA laws so I assume she is able to file. 

Celeste can definitely represent herself in this case, and is probably better off doing so. I did notice all her friends were in the courtroom, and I thought they were supposed to be witnesses so they shouldn't have been sitting in there. 

That said, this hearing is weird. In a case like this, there would have been depositions, discovery, a pretrial conference to go over witnesses and evidence that will be presented....but there doesn't appear to have been any of that. 

Edited July 15, 2019 by lala2

[DrSpaceman]

Her attorney really sucks

Really, you can just randomly, in the middle of a hearing that has nothing to do with his death, introduce a "computer simulation" and suggest he was murdered?  Computer simulation based on what, and done by who?  Was that able to be examined by the other team?   How would that EVER fly in a courtroom?  SO MANY reasons to object, which she did, weakly, but come on?  That is the most ridiculous thing to put in the case.  AT that point as a lawyer, I would immediately say, "He is badgering the witness, we have not been allowed to review this "simulation", its not relevant to this hearing and the idea he was pushed is purely speculative with no other evidence than this "simulation".......I move this questioning stop, now and the entire line of questioning be stricken from the record". 

I did like the end though, where she decided to cross examine her mother in law under oath.  That should make for some great drama

Also the one who had a stroke.......bugs me they are just so vague about it.  What are her deficits?  How bad of a stroke?  Its not so bad she needs to be on a ventilator, but it is so bad she wants to die and is incapacitated, I guess?  SHe doesn't seem to be able to talk.  Can she comprehend anything?  I guess that would be key if she suddenly comes around now after the confession?  And most importantly, can she eat on her own?  She has no feeding tube.  This is the relevant question for her living will and care.  If she cannot eat on her own and doesn't not want a feeding tube, and truly wants to die, then you can bring up the question of withdrawing IVF and feedings.  Never got into any of that, just can of leave it as this vague limbo about everything. 

Honestly I don't really care about the other relationships and if they survive, the other couples.  I just want to see how the custody battle ends and if they find out how he died. 

Diddling the help.......the cherry on top for Renatta's whole situation.  And $72000 just in back pay?  They haven't been paying her for longer than just the time this bankruptcy has been going on I am guessing.  That has to be a years pay or more.  Even if you don't include the, uhhh, "stress" pay. 

 

18 hours ago, SourK said:

I hate Mary Louise so much. Which is the intended reaction, so good job, show. In all seriousness this is my favourite Meryl Streep performance because it's understated and relentlessly unlikable -- something I don't think I've seen her do before.

This is his big moment! His lame custody hearing is turning into a murder trial! (I think what we're meant to infer is that the police are giving him a bunch of stuff because they want to use the custody hearing as a way to flush out evidence about the murder; that's weird and not appropriate, but I think that's what's happening).

For the sex and ambien, I agree with the addition that the ambien is pretty easy to explain. You say, "I was taking ambien and I had an adverse reaction to it that no one predicted, and I woke up in my car one time not knowing how I got there. It was really scary, so I've stopped taking ambien." Done.

I was really, really frustrated by the questioning about her sex life. I don't know how these things go in real life, but I feel like somebody would need to make at least a token effort to explain how this had a substantial impact on her children.

In regard to the ambien, yes, she may not have had any control over that.  Its a known parasomnia of that medication, doing weird things while taking it, often times people don't remember.  What you do is stop taking it, which she did.  Problem solved

Also I guess it was severance, not back pay, the maid/nanny was asking for, in addition to her special services provided

[BetyBee]

I felt that Celeste's attorney should have questioned ML as to why she hired a PD to spy on Celeste in the first place.  Celeste can't share custody with this monster, who questions the children about every little thing.  No way would ML be satisfied with weekend custody.  She also is clearly planning to go after Jane next. in order to add Ziggy to her collection of boys to ruin.  The custody hearing has been very odd from the start.  

I think that was definitely another actor portraying Ziggy.  

I'm not exactly hate watching.  I just want this to be over.  Despite all of the problematic writing, there is a lot that I like about this show.  I'm looking forward to the finale and hope that we get some answers!

[QuinnM]

33 minutes ago, DrSpaceman said:

Her attorney really sucks

Really, you can just randomly, in the middle of a hearing that has nothing to do with his death, introduce a "computer simulation" and suggest he was murdered?  Computer simulation based on what, and done by who?  Was that able to be examined by the other team?   How would that EVER fly in a courtroom?  SO MANY reasons to object, which she did, weakly, but come on?  That is the most ridiculous thing to put in the case.  AT that point as a lawyer, I would immediately say, "He is badgering the witness, we have not been allowed to review this "simulation", its not relevant to this hearing and the idea he was pushed is purely speculative with no other evidence than this "simulation".......I move this questioning stop, now and the entire line of questioning be stricken from the record". 

And another thing ...

The detective reviews the interview tapes on an OPEN INVESTIGATION with ML?  This makes no sense and quite frankly regardless of who ends up charged with the murder they can use this in their defense.

[Johnny Dollar]

There’s only one episode left and HBO has already said there won’t be a S3. This won’t end well for the viewers. Literally every main character has their own major storyline, in addition to the original BLL. How the hell are they going to be able to wrap up all of these loose ends in less than an hour?  Particularly since half of each episode consists of someone in their car listening to bad cover songs. 

[zobot81]

1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

There was a 48 Hours episode a few years back where the police were trying to determine whether a woman had slipped or was pushed, while she fell off the side of a cliff while hiking.  I may be wrong, but I do think they were able to do the calculations as to where she would be in a situation where she slipped versus being pushed, even though the distance between the two was not huge. 

Fair enough (and I do love a good 48 hours reference)!  The problem for me is that the prosecution presented a simulation in which Perry literally fell further down the stairs, just because he was pushed.  They didn't show him clearing the flight of stairs and launching to his death from a forceful push.  And at the very least, I do not understand how the blessed hell they can distinguish between a fall or a push based on a difference of landing twelve inches up or down the stairs.

It took a giant suspension of disbelief for me to go along with that piece of evidence.  I'd also like to add that, being a true crime insane person, prosecutions seem to always struggle to convict the "pushed from a high place" murder case.  There's so much room for doubt without any witnesses.