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S02.E06: The Bad Mother


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Celeste is blindsided by Mary Louise. Gordon continues to disappoint Renata. Bonnie contemplates a solution to her mother’s suffering and her own ongoing guilt. Ed entertains an unusual proposition before catching Madeline in an unguarded moment. The Monterey Five feel the pressure of increased scrutiny of Perry’s death.

Airing Sunday, July 14, 2019.

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(edited)

Maddie dancing in her wedding dress to Ed’s choice of song...total cheese ball...actually felt bad for Reece.

Master Bation diary...is that a thing?

160K...Juliette...”other services rendered”...16 times or 32 times or 64 times or 128 sexy times with Gordon...guessing $500 a tryst....

My eyeballs rolled out of my head and under the couch..

Best news...next week is the finale...this was not a worthy piggyback to an excellent Season One of big little lies.

Celeste has to mount the white horse and save herself....

Edited by humbleopinion
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So Gordon was paying Juliette under the table to put up with Renata?  I’m still laughing.

I really wonder why ML didn’t have to testify.  If Celeste’s attorney didn’t ask for that then she is really bad.  Did she even ask Celeste if there was anything crazy with ML then why give her a check at all.  

And if I were Jane I would move.  Move now.  If you don’t want to leave town then get the hell out of that apartment.

And I’m hate watching as well.  I just keep watching hoping I’ll get something.  I still love the performances but I want something more.

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So stupid on so many levels.  I know nothing  about custody hearings but I’m 900 percent certain they aren’t open to the public and that they don’t go into huge detail about mommy’s sex life. Strange men in the house yes but the number of people fucked? Would that EVER happen to a man? And ML gets to just...take the kids? As if she’s great? Her son was a raping wifebeater.

everyone else’s stories were fine but this was utter nonsense.

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3 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

And if I were Jane I would move.  Move now.  If you don’t want to leave town then get the hell out of that apartment.

And I’m hate watching as well.  I just keep watching hoping I’ll get something.  I still love the performances but I want something more.

I actually screamed out loud at the TV to tell Jane to move away from this madness. Save herself and Ziggy while she still can.

The Madeline/Ed relationship drama seems like an entirely different show. Madeline just drops by now and then by to have a chat with the rest of the Monterey 5 and show up in court. Did we really need Ms. Boob Job and her lists?

I don’t care about Bonnie’s parents and I’m starting not to care about Bonnie. Yes, I’m sure that she is tormented about pushing Perry but it’s not a compelling storyline right now.

4 minutes ago, saoirse said:

I thought Gordon was paying Juliette under the table for what she was *a-hem* doing for HIM 'under the table'?

That’s EXACTLY what I thought Gordon was paying Juliette for, too. Wonder how they arrived at the figure of $160,000?

I’m hate watching now, too. The great performances can’t save a meandering story. Too many characters. Too many choppy scenes. Too much angst and misery.

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Adam Scott is so underrated on this show. He brings humor and hurt and sadness to his scenes and I really enjoy all of his and Reese's scenes together.

Meryl Streep is overrated. One note character that has been brought in to be this season's baddie. My hope with the cross next week a question that I have been asking all season.

Why would the mother of a known rapist and abuser and criminal be given any time by anyone including the judge? Why wouldn't she be accused of being partially responsible for creating a monster? Wouldn't raising 2 more boys be considered a greater threat than a mother that is taking sleeping pills?

There are really other interesting questions from this season. These questions are given to the audience.

Can we sympathize and feel love and compassion for Celeste but still feel like she is a bad mother? Just because she is a bad mother should she lose her children? Also with love and support from friends and assistance from her therapist will she get on her feet, reclaim her life and become a better mom?

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39 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

So Gordon was paying Juliette under the table to put up with Renata?  I’m still laughing.

As others have mentioned, "stress relief" implied sexual activities.  But all of that was ridiculous.  I know they're rich but what kind of young nanny earns a severance of $72,000?  I would think you'd have to be a family with a lifetime to earn that.  And what kind of bloody fool would try to go on record as providing sex work in an official forum?

The whole slut shaming custody hearing was ridiculous.  It reminds me a bit of the first season of Goliath, which David E. Kelly also wrote, and how that went off the rails the closer we got to actual courtroom scenes. 

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(edited)

Even if they discussed Celeste’s trysts, how would they know and be able to get pictures of these men?

Would have taken private investigators chasing leads for months.

That would be a lot of money.

Then that 3D simulation and ML’s lawyer suggests Celeste pushed Perry?

Apparently ML has a big bank account and this lawyer billed her left and right.

Yeah as soon as they had that scene of the doe-eyed nanny, you knew it was coming up.  What did that guy do, take Renata’s money, buy expensive model trains, promise money to the nanny and then ultimately blow it all on insider trading?

OK, but Renata countenanced it for years, if not fund that lifestyle.

Edited by scrb
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I just don't understand where the writing went this year.

I do enjoy the performances, the cinematography, the atmosphere.

Re: the court case. I don't think there is any court lawyer that Wouldn't examine the prospective GM-give her psychological tests and put her on the stand to prove that she is better than a child's own mother for custody. The "I will cross her myself" was bunk.

Not done with thinking Corey is going to be a dark horse next week.

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(edited)
1 hour ago, ihartcoffee said:

That was so uncomfortable to watch.....

The Bonnie stuff was very uncomfortable for me to watch.

Like I've complained about the car crashes, the show is way too self-indulgent and intent on shocking viewers with absolutely no outside value.  How many times did this episode pull the "Now we'll show you something really fucking shocking - oh oops it didn't actually happen".  Confessing in court.  KILLING HER OWN FUCKING MOTHER.  Etc. etc. etc. etc.  Pull back.  Oh it's just a dream sequence.  Really, really manipulative.

I did really enjoy Nicole this episode, though, and I normally don't go crazy for her on this show.  And I loved the montage of all the men she, let's say, played around with.

Renata in the car was so funny hahahaha.

So right after Perry falls down the stairs, somebody is taking pictures of everyone?  hahahahhHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA THAT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN!  There's no way the cops got there that fast.  That was supposedly photos from the partygoers.  

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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I hate Mary Louise so much. Which is the intended reaction, so good job, show. In all seriousness this is my favourite Meryl Streep performance because it's understated and relentlessly unlikable -- something I don't think I've seen her do before.

14 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

For me, the random sex isn't really an issue.  That affects the boys how?  What scares me is the Ambien and the driving.

...

How the hell would a family court lawyer have any expertise for that?  He didn't call any expert to the stand.  Nobody objects to the science?  That made no sense at all.

This is his big moment! His lame custody hearing is turning into a murder trial! (I think what we're meant to infer is that the police are giving him a bunch of stuff because they want to use the custody hearing as a way to flush out evidence about the murder; that's weird and not appropriate, but I think that's what's happening).

For the sex and ambien, I agree with the addition that the ambien is pretty easy to explain. You say, "I was taking ambien and I had an adverse reaction to it that no one predicted, and I woke up in my car one time not knowing how I got there. It was really scary, so I've stopped taking ambien." Done.

I was really, really frustrated by the questioning about her sex life. I don't know how these things go in real life, but I feel like somebody would need to make at least a token effort to explain how this had a substantial impact on her children.

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I laughed out loud when the nanny stated she was owed her "stress relief" payment. When she said that, I also thought she was providing a sexual service to him.

Renata in the car was epic.

Did anyone else think the scene with Celeste applying her makeup was supposed to be immediately after chugging the vodka? I assumed she was fixing herself up to go on a drunken prowel for a guy.

Ed making the cut for Tits McGee's lists 🤣🤣

They've spent too much time on Bonnie's mother's story this season.

I miss Ziggy's cute face and Chloe's eye rolls. 

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(edited)
16 minutes ago, Slovenly Muse said:

I'd be tempted to say all the action has shifted over to the men, but that's not true either! Ed, Nathan, Jane's new boyfriend... none of them have DONE anything, and the only one who DID do something is Gordon, and he did it off-screen, so he's now a passive spectator to the consequences of his actions

I understand your frustration about the season.  I think it's obvious the writing is a lot worse too, since the first season was actually based on something, but I also think that a lot of what you're talking about is supposed to be explained by the women dealing with the aftermath of Perry being murdered either in front of or by them, and Celeste dealing with the grief of Perry's death.  They are all supposed to be traumatized by the murder, and unraveling.  So that's why they've "changed".  They telegraph it hard with Bonnie, and somewhat with Madeleine, especially Bonnie's remarks to Madeleine here and there.

I've been complaining about the Gordon story since the first episode of this season. It's never going to be fully explained exactly what's going on, what Gordon or Renata's actual jobs are/were and those kind of details being left out drive me insane.

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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14 minutes ago, answerphone said:

I miss Ziggy's cute face and Chloe's eye rolls. 

Was Ziggy's face ever shown? I honestly feel like they got a body double and dubbed in Ziggy's lines after so that they could pass child labour laws.  It was the weirdest scene ever.

I feel like it was out of character for Ed to call Mrs. McGee, and I don't really get it.  I "get" that Madeleine is acting weird and he's supposed to be upset by it, but I still really don't think that this is him.

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55 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

This episode felt like network television.

So much word. I get that it's TV, plus I'm a lawyer, so I'm used to suspending disbelief in the interest of telling a good story. But this was just too much. The packed courtroom, the random photos of the guys, and the simulation video. What even? I assumed it came from Det. Suspicious Minds, but even so, that just cannot happen, in any case.

Speaking of which, what was up with the detective showing interview footage to Mary Louise? I get that she wants to solve the mystery, but she's interfering in a private custody matter in a way that could have far-reaching consequences. Does she not get that her end game - presumably putting pressure on the Monterey 5, especially Celeste - could result in the twins being raised by the parent of the physically violent guy whose death she's trying to solve?

One of the big problems with this season is that the detective is such a cypher you could assign any number of reasons for her extreme interest in this situation. And any of them would be more interesting than the big fat zero in terms of characterization that we have now. Maybe - in an amazing plot twist - the detective is actually investigating the death of Perry's brother, and this is all just part of an elaborate ruse to lure Mary Louise to Monterey!

I did like the juxtaposition of Bonnie's conflict with her own "bad mother" with the more obvious focus on Celeste's actions. I'm still looking forward to next week when (I hope) Celeste reduces Mary Louise to ash with a merciless examination. 

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41 minutes ago, SourK said:

For the sex and ambien, I agree with the addition that the ambien is pretty easy to explain. You say, "I was taking ambien and I had an adverse reaction to it that no one predicted, and I woke up in my car one time not knowing how I got there. It was really scary, so I've stopped taking ambien." Done.

Well, that would be perjury.  

The entire episode, Celeste told the truth no matter how hard it was for her and no matter how much she was "publicly" humiliated and on the stand and was incredibly painstaking about avoiding committing perjury - until the part where she was asked how Perry died.  That's why Bonnie was so visibly upset and why she kept fantasizing about standing up in court and confessing and why the episode ended with her actually confessing to her mother.  

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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27 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I understand your frustration about the season.  I think it's obvious the writing is a lot worse too, since the first season was actually based on something, but I also think that a lot of what you're talking about is supposed to be explained by the women dealing with the aftermath of Perry being murdered either in front of or by them, and Celeste dealing with the grief of Perry's death.  They are all supposed to be traumatized by the murder, and unraveling.  So that's why they've "changed".  They telegraph it hard with Bonnie, and somewhat with Madeleine, especially Bonnie's remarks to Madeleine here and there.

I hear you. I think my frustration really is that, while they may be unraveling, this is not translating to action. The investigation that could expose them has almost no sense of urgency. They aren't taking actions to cover up what they did, or respond to their fears and traumas in active ways. I want to see the psychological effects of losing an abusive father on those twins, and how Celeste relates to them now. I want to see how watching her rapist die in front of her has helped (or worsened) Jane's paranoid desire to sleep with a gun under her pillow in constant fear of an intruder. I want to see the classroom dynamics at school and how ALL the kids involved are dealing with each other. I want to see Madeleine realize that with all her prying and sticking her nose into other people's business, she never knew her best friend was being abused, and how that affects her pathological need to involve herself in every situation, since she obviously wasn't involved ENOUGH with Celeste. I want to see Bonnie worry that because she committed an act of violence, SHE might be turning into the violent mother she resents, and struggling even harder to relate to Abigail and Skye as a result. I want to see Renata in a position to lose everything she's worked for because of something SHE did (or helped cover up), not just something her worthless excuse of a husband did behind her back.

Basically, I'm fine with a season about the "Monterey 5" unraveling, but I want to know what that MEANS, not just what it looks like.

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54 minutes ago, answerphone said:

They've spent too much time on Bonnie's mother's story this season.

I'd have to agree with this, and Bonnie's mother has been completely inert in a hospital for most of it!

This season is definitely not up to par with Season 1 (and I was saddened to see that HBO wrested control from Andrea Arnold who is an amazing director). The main problem is with the writing, so yeah, we're looking at YOU David E. Kelley. Much of this season feels like bargain basement scripts from "The Practice".

That being said, I'm still enjoying the performances from all of the actresses.

Renata sure picked a winner didn't she? In addition to blowing through all of her earnings, her husband was boinking the nanny and promising payment for extra services rendered! 

Zoe Kravitz did a great job with the scene reading from her confession book in the hospital, but I wish her Mom would either wake up, or pass away or something. Having a whole plot line based on a comatose character is tiresome. Clearly that diary is going to wind up in the wrong hands somehow.

Also bored with the Madeline/Ed will they won't they stay together storyline. Don't really care if Ed boffs Chesty McChesterton at this point.

Nicole continues to knock it out of the park, even with the ludicrous courtroom writing. I was hoping we'd get more layered insight into Perry's past, but I guess we're going to have to wait and see if Celeste drags it into the sunlight in her cross-examination (which is an admittedly ridiculous plot point that no judge would probably agree to). Regardless, I want to see her annihilate Mary Louise next court date, and I hope she dredges up something good!

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As I feared, David E. Kelly loves courtroom dramatics. This sucked so hard other than Kidman did her best and I love the character actress playing the judge. And Renata's snarled comment to Celeste's crappy, silent lawyer.

I do like that Perry's death didn't "heal" Celeste and that she is clearly working through some major issues. The random sex would be okay if it made her feel better,  but bringing strange men home and getting blackout drunk/drugged around the boys is concerning. She needs a lot of help. 

Jane gives me hope. She does seem the one who can take on Mary Louise. But damn, how on Earth did she get Ziggy to tell her about the gun???

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(edited)
3 hours ago, juno said:

Why would the mother of a known rapist and abuser and criminal be given any time by anyone including the judge? Why wouldn't she be accused of being partially responsible for creating a monster?

This was my biggest problem, throughout the episode. And it's a shame that it was held back for a big dramatic ending, because not having it, not being shown Celeste documenting all of ML's manipulations and stalking - yes, stalking - is such a huge departure from reality. She stalked Jane and Ziggy, she paid someone (we assume) to stalk Celeste. ML crossing the line has been addressed repeatedly, but not to the lawyer? No buy.

And again, contrived so we can have the big payoff of Celeste representing herself and turning the tables on ML in the courtroom. *sigh*

2 hours ago, One Imaginary Girl said:

I hope this sudden turn at the custody hearing means that Celeste is going to ask about the dead son.

Next week's description indicates that's exactly what's going to happen.

2 hours ago, scrb said:

Even if they discussed Celeste’s trysts, how would they know and be able to get pictures of these men?

Was it just me, or did the guy in the last photo resemble Keith Urban? Bit of a gag, no?

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

The Bonnie stuff was very uncomfortable for me to watch.

Very uncomfortable but I'm glad it's there. I'm glad the show is depicting the effects of domestic abuse in so many various ways: showing what victims go through, what they do to themselves, and how resolution doesn't come wrapped up in a few weeks/months of therapy.

When all is said and done, no, I'm not hate-watching. This is nowhere near the debacle of what happened with GoT.  (Actually, I'm having fun right this moment, imagining EC's Dany on that stand. "Tell us why you flipped ..." would have been so much more than D and D gave viewers.)

So, I'm watching to see Celeste make ML her bitch next week, assuming she will and even knowing it's been contrived; to see how Bonnie works out her shit; and to see if Ed takes his revenge fuck.

ETA: Has there been an episode this season, where Renata hasn't set off a metal detector?

Edited by FemmyV
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(edited)

Nanny is nuts.  Claiming 160,000 for "relaxation" services rendered outs her as somebody who will sleep with the dads for cash.   Something tells me she's not getting hired anywhere else like ever.  Okay, she'll probably get hired by Renata after she axes Gordon, but still... this was absurd.  

Although Renata's fucking post reveal rant was fucking brilliant.

Edited by bybrandy
two ns are better than one.
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19 minutes ago, zobot81 said:

want to know who's calculating fall physics for the prosecution -- because a 1 foot difference in distance doesn't seem calculable.

That's exactly what I thought, only way less succinctly. 

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7 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

For me, the random sex isn't really an issue.  That affects the boys how?  What scares me is the Ambien and the driving. 

She's bringing some of these men into her home without knowing much, if anything, about them.  For all she knows, the guy could be dangerous and harm her or her sons.  At best, that's reckless behavior.  And yes, I know that she was married to someone who did physically harm her, so getting to know someone first isn't always a good screen, but to just bring home randoms is a bad idea as well.    

31 minutes ago, zobot81 said:

I want to know who's calculating fall physics for the prosecution -- because a 1 foot difference in distance doesn't seem calculable.

There was a 48 Hours episode a few years back where the police were trying to determine whether a woman had slipped or was pushed, while she fell off the side of a cliff while hiking.  I may be wrong, but I do think they were able to do the calculations as to where she would be in a situation where she slipped versus being pushed, even though the distance between the two was not huge. 

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Oh, Celeste.  How could she not have known ML was going to find out about all the men?  Is she that naive?  Glad she will have her chance to question ML next week.

Oh, Gordon.  How could he not have known Renata would find out about the little French nanny?  That was really, really stupid.

So after all that discussion last week Corey isn't a cop.  (Or is he lying?)  Either way he needs to stay away from Jane for a while.  Was that a different child playing Ziggy?  We never really saw his face so maybe the young actor was too busy with his other show?

6 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

Zoe Kravitz did a great job with the scene reading from her confession book in the hospital, but I wish her Mom would either wake up, or pass away or something

She'll probably wake up.  The tear indicated she heard every word.

6 hours ago, FemmyV said:

ETA: Has there been an episode this season, where Renata hasn't set off a metal detector?

No, it's been a running joke.

I expect next week will be Meryl's Emmy submission.

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Her attorney really sucks

Really, you can just randomly, in the middle of a hearing that has nothing to do with his death, introduce a "computer simulation" and suggest he was murdered?  Computer simulation based on what, and done by who?  Was that able to be examined by the other team?   How would that EVER fly in a courtroom?  SO MANY reasons to object, which she did, weakly, but come on?  That is the most ridiculous thing to put in the case.  AT that point as a lawyer, I would immediately say, "He is badgering the witness, we have not been allowed to review this "simulation", its not relevant to this hearing and the idea he was pushed is purely speculative with no other evidence than this "simulation".......I move this questioning stop, now and the entire line of questioning be stricken from the record". 

I did like the end though, where she decided to cross examine her mother in law under oath.  That should make for some great drama

Also the one who had a stroke.......bugs me they are just so vague about it.  What are her deficits?  How bad of a stroke?  Its not so bad she needs to be on a ventilator, but it is so bad she wants to die and is incapacitated, I guess?  SHe doesn't seem to be able to talk.  Can she comprehend anything?  I guess that would be key if she suddenly comes around now after the confession?  And most importantly, can she eat on her own?  She has no feeding tube.  This is the relevant question for her living will and care.  If she cannot eat on her own and doesn't not want a feeding tube, and truly wants to die, then you can bring up the question of withdrawing IVF and feedings.  Never got into any of that, just can of leave it as this vague limbo about everything. 

Honestly I don't really care about the other relationships and if they survive, the other couples.  I just want to see how the custody battle ends and if they find out how he died. 

Diddling the help.......the cherry on top for Renatta's whole situation.  And $72000 just in back pay?  They haven't been paying her for longer than just the time this bankruptcy has been going on I am guessing.  That has to be a years pay or more.  Even if you don't include the, uhhh, "stress" pay. 

 

18 hours ago, SourK said:

I hate Mary Louise so much. Which is the intended reaction, so good job, show. In all seriousness this is my favourite Meryl Streep performance because it's understated and relentlessly unlikable -- something I don't think I've seen her do before.

This is his big moment! His lame custody hearing is turning into a murder trial! (I think what we're meant to infer is that the police are giving him a bunch of stuff because they want to use the custody hearing as a way to flush out evidence about the murder; that's weird and not appropriate, but I think that's what's happening).

For the sex and ambien, I agree with the addition that the ambien is pretty easy to explain. You say, "I was taking ambien and I had an adverse reaction to it that no one predicted, and I woke up in my car one time not knowing how I got there. It was really scary, so I've stopped taking ambien." Done.

I was really, really frustrated by the questioning about her sex life. I don't know how these things go in real life, but I feel like somebody would need to make at least a token effort to explain how this had a substantial impact on her children.

In regard to the ambien, yes, she may not have had any control over that.  Its a known parasomnia of that medication, doing weird things while taking it, often times people don't remember.  What you do is stop taking it, which she did.  Problem solved

Also I guess it was severance, not back pay, the maid/nanny was asking for, in addition to her special services provided

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I felt that Celeste's attorney should have questioned ML as to why she hired a PD to spy on Celeste in the first place.  Celeste can't share custody with this monster, who questions the children about every little thing.  No way would ML be satisfied with weekend custody.  She also is clearly planning to go after Jane next. in order to add Ziggy to her collection of boys to ruin.  The custody hearing has been very odd from the start.  

I think that was definitely another actor portraying Ziggy.  

I'm not exactly hate watching.  I just want this to be over.  Despite all of the problematic writing, there is a lot that I like about this show.  I'm looking forward to the finale and hope that we get some answers!

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33 minutes ago, DrSpaceman said:

Her attorney really sucks

Really, you can just randomly, in the middle of a hearing that has nothing to do with his death, introduce a "computer simulation" and suggest he was murdered?  Computer simulation based on what, and done by who?  Was that able to be examined by the other team?   How would that EVER fly in a courtroom?  SO MANY reasons to object, which she did, weakly, but come on?  That is the most ridiculous thing to put in the case.  AT that point as a lawyer, I would immediately say, "He is badgering the witness, we have not been allowed to review this "simulation", its not relevant to this hearing and the idea he was pushed is purely speculative with no other evidence than this "simulation".......I move this questioning stop, now and the entire line of questioning be stricken from the record". 

And another thing ...

The detective reviews the interview tapes on an OPEN INVESTIGATION with ML?  This makes no sense and quite frankly regardless of who ends up charged with the murder they can use this in their defense.

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1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

There was a 48 Hours episode a few years back where the police were trying to determine whether a woman had slipped or was pushed, while she fell off the side of a cliff while hiking.  I may be wrong, but I do think they were able to do the calculations as to where she would be in a situation where she slipped versus being pushed, even though the distance between the two was not huge. 

Fair enough (and I do love a good 48 hours reference)!  The problem for me is that the prosecution presented a simulation in which Perry literally fell further down the stairs, just because he was pushed.  They didn't show him clearing the flight of stairs and launching to his death from a forceful push.  And at the very least, I do not understand how the blessed hell they can distinguish between a fall or a push based on a difference of landing twelve inches up or down the stairs.

It took a giant suspension of disbelief for me to go along with that piece of evidence.  I'd also like to add that, being a true crime insane person, prosecutions seem to always struggle to convict the "pushed from a high place" murder case.  There's so much room for doubt without any witnesses.

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