S15.E07: Week 7: Latvia

[truthaboutluv]

1 hour ago, laschifosavita said:

If part of the concept of the show they signed up for is that they might end up engaged to someone who may have had sex with as many as two other people a week or so before they propose, I don't want to hear them whine about a bit of naked bungee jumping.

Right? Like I said, the whole franchise is weird and creepy.  As viewers we just go along with it and try to pretend it's not completely weird and creepy. So yeah, "boo-hoo Luke, your girlfriend that's dating like six other guys along with you went naked bungee jumping with one of her "boyfriends"". Cry me a river. 

[Arkay]

Ouch, ouch, ouch. This idiot Jed and whatever that squawking was is killing my ears. Clearly Hannah believed she was having a Romeo and Juliet moment while she was up at her window and Jed was attempting to sing and strum for her down below. If, that is, Romeo was actually looking for a contract with some 70th-rate manager while pretending to Juliet that he was there for the right reasons.

I can see how oblivious Luke is, but part of me feels sorry for him. He is causing the turmoil but it still must suck to have every single person against you when he truly seems to not grasp that he's the catalyst.

Goodbye to two more indistinguishable men. Connor and Mike are still there but I only see them in the friend zone. Maybe the babysitter zone, in Connor's case. 

Ok, so Hannah made her own decision to bungee jump in the nude, in public, with cameras around, and she was happy with her decision. Maybe she was, but I think it was a very weird date for the show to even offer. In the same vein, Hannah is making the decision to mount every man like she was doing taxidermy for a living, but I was uncomfortable watching it. Just too intimate.

[Wandering Snark]

17 minutes ago, Arkay said:

Hannah is making the decision to mount every man like she was doing taxidermy for a living

Okay, they really need to bring Kendall in on a consult.

[Refresh]

The only tiny benefit to Luke still being on this show is to illustrate to people how gaslighting controlling men operate. And hopefully that helps others identify it earlier than Hannah has apparently been able to. Maybe it’ll help awaken someone by witnessing it with other people.

I feel zero ounces of pity for that holier than thou controlling asshole.  

[LuvMyShows]

4 hours ago, leighdear said:

Hannah's stylist for clothing, hair and makeup is totally on-point this season.  I haven't disliked a single look or choice that's been made.  

The only thing that has consistently looked bad is when she wears the really dark colored dresses (maroon, black) and they pull back her hair, and do severe make-up..  It makes her evil eyebrows look even moreso!

4 hours ago, talktoomuch said:

So...this is a good idea?...talking about your nude activities with one date in front of a bunch of other guys you're dating? Come on Hannah!

I very much thought the decision to tell the guys was producer-driven.

3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Ok, this Annabelle commercial is kinda funny. 

I laughed multiple times, in spite of myself.  Nick's hair looked like he maybe got those hair plugs....it looked fuller in front where I thought previously he had forehead.

4 hours ago, FlyingEgret said:

Garrett may be falling in love but by admitting he hates football he will never be her F1 - I could see the disappointment written all over her face

I missed this,,,when did it happen and what was being discussed that caused him to say it?

[tinkerbell]

Jed is kind of cute, but with a weird shaped head and face.  Without the beard, he would be one strange-looking dude.

An example of gaslighting -  Luke talking to Garrett  about "staying in your lane."      

When I see what you're doing and it bothers me, I"m still staying in my lane.  But when you say that I"m not allowed to say that what you're doing bothers me, then YOU are the one not staying in your lane.

another example - instead of saying I"m sorry I said that, that's not what I meant, Luke says I'm sorry if I was misunderstood.  It sounds similar to an apology, but it's not an apology. 

Luke, to me, acts like a guy who is there on a bet.  Someone bet him he couldn't get Hannah to keep him until the end.  It's a competition, and he's there to WIN, not to have Hannah. 

Edited June 25, 2019 by tinkerbell

[RealHousewife]

1 hour ago, Arkay said:

Ok, so Hannah made her own decision to bungee jump in the nude, in public, with cameras around, and she was happy with her decision. Maybe she was, but I think it was a very weird date for the show to even offer. In the same vein, Hannah is making the decision to mount every man like she was doing taxidermy for a living, but I was uncomfortable watching it. Just too intimate.

Girlfriend is horny. 

[Hpmec]

I haven't been watching, so tonight was my first exposure to the Hannah shitshow. The naked or almost naked bungee jumping on a one on one with a bunch of other guys still in the running made me squeamish. It was too intimate. Just, no. And is she trying to outblob Blob? Show some restraint, girl! Luke is into her, but he's looking for a virginal type mom will approve of. That's not Hannah. Doesn't matter who she chooses in the end. It won't last. 

[dirtypop90]

3 hours ago, nutty1 said:

I’m on vacation and in the car. I am enjoying your commentary more than I’d probably be enjoying the show!

So they didn’t edit Jed any worse?

They give him villain music when he snuck out to serenade Hannah. They also showed him playing music three times, multiple instruments. 

[EllenB]

1 hour ago, Hpmec said:

I haven't been watching, so tonight was my first exposure to the Hannah shitshow. The naked or almost naked bungee jumping on a one on one with a bunch of other guys still in the running made me squeamish. It was too intimate. Just, no. And is she trying to outblob Blob? Show some restraint, girl! Luke is into her, but he's looking for a virginal type mom will approve of. That's not Hannah. Doesn't matter who she chooses in the end. It won't last. 

Actually, after the Fantasy Suites, Luke will be the only one NOT into her.

And he doesn't care about a virginal type to take home to Mom.  He wants someone to OWN, past, present, and future.  He's a horrible, possessive, controlling POS. 

[Nowhere]

Garrett straight up lied about what Luke said though. I understand that Luke would be jealous about the naked bungee jumping but I think his point was that if Garrett would keep his date to himself, ie “stay in his own lane”, then Luke wouldn’t have to join him in his lane, think about him or his date, or deal with the jealousy that will arise from hearing about someone you really like being naked with someone else, then get treated like he’s not human for expressing those feelings of jealousy. Literally, all he was trying to say was that he didn’t like the thought of it. I’ve said before, Luke can’t win with Hannah. She tells him to open up or else. Now, when he says how he really feels about a situation, nope, sorry, wrong again. Luke just isn’t the right guy for Hannah and he’s in a high stress situation because he’s probably the only guy who is actually here for the “right reasons”, in other words, he actually likes her even if he’s fucked in the head and handling things poorly. No doubt that he likes her. The other guys don’t care that Garret’s naked dick was pressed up against her because they don’t give a shit about her. I’m not saying Luke isn’t a controlling prick. I don’t know if he is or if he’s just getting a terrible edit or if he’s just really bad at explaining his feelings. I do think he is actually emotionally invested and that’s why he’s acting jealous.

I’ve never liked it when the guys choose one to hang up on. They’re like mean girls. They got rid of one by lying about him and picking on him until he saw his way out. They’re doing the same to Luke. They know what buttons to press and they won’t stop until he destroys himself. He’s just too dumb to see that.

Hannah, on the other hand, is enjoyink the arguink with Luke. She loves the attention he’s givink her because she keeps sayink she wants someone who will fight for her. Why would you need anyone to fight for you if you’re all in and not planning on givink that person a really hard time of it? And I hate that she keeps tellink the guys that she’s crazy. Of course Peter says he likes crazy 🙄🙄. Well he won’t like it for long. Crazy may be cute when you just want sex, but it’s not marriage material. Furthermore, she needs to stop straddlink and grindink on all the guys. It’s too much! And stop with the K’s at the end of words that are clearly pronounced and spelled with a G.  I couldn’t hang out with this chick for more than 10 minutes, much less a lifetime. Good luck to whoever wins.

[Ms Blue Jay]

5 hours ago, Refresh said:

I feel zero ounces of pity for that holier than thou controlling asshole.  

It's scary how he seems to evoke sympathy sometimes!  Sympathy for what?  He has all the warning signs of a wife murderer.  Everything he says he pretends he doesn't in a few hours.  Very scary.

Can someone explain the circumstances surrounding the naked bungee jumping? I thought the Bach picked all the activities?  Am I totally wrong?  Hannah shows up to her own activity and then starts screaming and practically crying?  Does the show force the Bach to do stuff they absolutely don't want to do?  I've never heard of something so stupid.  Was she just freaking out about the heights, or was she freaking out about the nudity as well?  For once I'd like someone like Garrett or whomever to say "No, I'm not participating. Pick someone else."

Edited June 25, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[FlyingEgret]

4 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

I missed this,,,when did it happen and what was being discussed that caused him to say it?

IIRC:  During their 1:1 dinner, he was telling her about how his father played football in college and he felt he was expected to do the same; so he ended up hating the sport and it pushed him to golf.

[JenE4]

I dozed off during all of the Luke fighting. I think my body was putting itself into a self-preservation mode. That’s when I know this has gone too far when i’ve had enough of the Wrong Reasons; every episode with Luke is a rehash of the last. All I remember is Luke and Garrett saying “stay in [your/my] lane” ~35 times and then, I don’t know, I probably had a nightmare about a zipper merge gone awry.

Edited June 25, 2019 by JenE4

[JudyObscure]

1 hour ago, Nowhere said:

Luke can’t win with Hannah. She tells him to open up or else. Now, when he says how he really feels about a situation, nope, sorry, wrong again. Luke just isn’t the right guy for Hannah and he’s in a high stress situation because he’s probably the only guy who is actually here for the “right reasons”, in other words, he actually likes her even if he’s fucked in the head and handling things poorly. 

Exactly, and that's why I kind of like him.  He always starts out completely honest with Hannah; he felt jealous about the naked thing, was worried his mom wouldn't like her after that, etc.  Then when it makes her mad, he starts frantically back pedaling, trying to tell her he didn't really say what we all heard him say.  That's what I call immature behavior, saying he didn't steal the cookie while holding the cookie in his hand, bad non-apology where he's sorry she's mad, but not sorry for what he said.  What I don't call it is gaslighting because gaslighting is much more subtle and powerful than Luke's childish behavior.

I don't think Hannah is the right girl for Luke, but I don't think he would be an evil controlling husband.  He would try to get his way, as everyone does,  but back down easily and  there's a chance the two would grow up and set realistic boundaries for each other.   No one gets to do exactly what they want to do inside a marriage not even "strong women."

Hannah is just as self-deluded as Luke is.  She thinks she's a strong woman who no longer tries to please people. Really?  I heard her say she had to go bungee jumping in the nude because "that's what they do here," and if she went to a beach where everyone took their clothes off she would, too.  Strong women follow their own rules, not the crowd's.  

This is a show where you date lots of guys, but that doesn't mean you have to publicly straddle all of them.  She is showing who she is just as Luke is, and I think she might be more suited to Jed than anyone else.  They both like showing crowds of people their bodies, he with his stripping and she on the pageant stage in her little bikini (even her Miss Alabama evening gown was see-through.)  Their only problem would be continually fighting for center of attention. He can't stop singing and she can't walk through a market without jumping up and down screaming.  

Hannah's face while she was having dinner conversation with Garrett was such weird Hannah.  He was talking quite seriously about something and she was grinning so wide she was actually laughing a little. She is just so ON all the time.

[Zahdii]

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Can someone explain the circumstances surrounding the naked bungee jumping? I thought the Bach picked all the activities?  Am I totally wrong?  Hannah shows up to her own activity and then starts screaming and practically crying?  Does the show force the Bach to do stuff they absolutely don't want to do?  I've never heard of something so stupid.  Was she just freaking out about the heights, or was she freaking out about the nudity as well?  For once I'd like someone like Garrett or whomever to say "No, I'm not participating. Pick someone else."

While the bachelor or bachelorette usually pretend they've planned the dates out, there have been times when it was obvious that they had nothing to do with it.  I'm thinking of Jake and Vienna bungee jumping off a bridge and how she had to talk him down as they were hanging in mid air and he was losing his mind in fear.  Or the bachelorette who had to make her way through a dark room filled with obstacles and birds, and she had a bird phobia.  And who in their right mind would choose a date where their suiters were expected to roast them on stage?  One bachelorette had to suffer through that one.  Most of the guys were understandably reluctant to do that, both because they really didn't know much about her or her sense of humor.  One clod took it to heart and really got mean with her.  His excuse was that he was an aspiring comedian and that's just what they do.  While the bachelorette ended up being consoled by another man, he wandered the streets complaining that no one understood him and either quit the show or was ousted at the next rose ceremony. 

I'm sure there are many other examples of the lead being ambushed by production.

[ljenkins782]

9 hours ago, DEL901 said:

Lol at Tyler at the end doing that dance.... but those tight white short pants and no socks....

He looked straight out of some 1950s movie in the scene, between the hair, the dancing, the ridiculous outfit. He actually could be an actor (looks alone), I could totally see him playing the bully best friend of the male star (you know the one, the guy who's always egging the main character on to be a bigger jerk, the characters Paul Walker used to play back in the 90s.) 

He's super hot, but nowhere near interested in marriage. He's got many years of sockless, tight-panted girl chasing ahead of him and he's clearly good at it. 

Quote

Garrett has a case of "backne" to go along with his nasal voice and smarmy bragging.  

LOL, I noticed that giant patch of backne too. My main thought about the whole naked bungee jumping is that it was cold enough to be snowing, if I were him, I'd be more worried about the shrinkage factor than the drop from the plane. Probably not the way you want a woman to first see your stuff...

Quote

Oh, does Jed sing? I had NO IDEA. He's worse than Luke right now with his obvious fame whoring. At least Luke is genuine in his absolute batshit insanity. 

Jed is just walking secondhand embarrassment at this point. I've been baffled from the start about his choice of career path, the group date song from the first episode was so incredibly off-key and whiny. So every time he pulls the guitar out, I just want to cover my face and peek through my fingers. 

Quote

So long, Dylan and Dustin, we hardly knew ye.

LOL, "hardly" seems generous in this case. I'm not actually sure who is who and one of them definitely had no speaking parts until tonight. 

Could that have been a more suspense-free final rose? Hmmm, will it be Luke, the monster who ate the show OR two completely invisible, heretofore unnamed guys? Which will she choose... 

Quote

One of the guys is sitting on the couch, wearing a scarf around his neck. (Burberry?) He looks cute. I wonder what his name is.

This made me laugh too hard. Whoever they are, they're going to have an uphill battle becoming a "social media influencer" with the complete lack of face time on the show. 

You know how they often do interviews with the villain of the season to discuss how they felt watching the show? Do they ever do interviews with people like this? "So, as you watched the show back, were you surprised that you never saw your face or heard your voice or heard your name spoken aloud in any way? After filming a show for 6 weeks, were you surprised that you weren't actually on TV?" 

Quote

I'm not so sure about Pilot Peter. He seems like such a dweeb and she'd get bored with him. 

His super white teeth always cheesing out of his round, somewhat feminine baby face are very distracting. I can agree with her that he seems like the kind of guy who'd make a good dad, but otherwise, he's a little goofy. 

Also, he looks too much like the guy who played Jamie from Small Wonder and I couldn't stand that kid, lol. 

[jackjill89]

What Luke did to Hannah is what he does with the guys too -- he says something then totally backpedals and says he didn't say that. 

After being around that guy for awhile you'd feel completely looney tunes. Gas lighting is right. It drives me insane just watching it.

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, Zahdii said:

While the bachelor or bachelorette usually pretend they've planned the dates out, there have been times when it was obvious that they had nothing to do with it. .

Thank you @Zahdii.  This show is cruel to their bachelors/bachelorettes.

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, jackjill89 said:

What Luke did to Hannah is what he does with the guys too -- he says something then totally backpedals and says he didn't say that. 

After being around that guy for awhile you'd feel completely looney tunes. Gas lighting is right. It drives me insane just watching it.

Absolutely.  It's a form of emotional abuse to make your target constantly think they're imagining things or going crazy.  Luke is trying to make Hannah question her own sanity by constantly saying "I never said that.  You misunderstood me."  And crazier, it's on camera and it JUST happened.  There's no chance he forgot - the lies are intentional.  There is a lot you can take from or do to a person who isn't sure what gaslighting is or has no idea how to defend themselves from it if you do it to them enough.

If @Zahdii is right, the show forced Hannah to be naked with Garrett and sauna with Peter in a bikini.  So?  It isn't like it was her choice whatsoever.  And Luke berates her for it, calls it a stupid boneheaded mistake or whatever and says he questions introducing her to his family.  How is not an absolute asshole for this.  And even if the events were her choice, which they clearly weren't, she is a single woman who has no attachment or responsibility to anyone.

The only thing I blame Hannah for is keeping him around.  She's too young to understand this yet.

Edited June 25, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[b2H]

1 minute ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Absolutely.  It's a form of emotional abuse to make your target constantly think they're imagining things or going crazy.  Luke is trying to make Hannah question her own sanity by constantly saying "I never said that.  You misunderstood me."  And crazier, it's on camera and it JUST happened.  There's no chance he forgot - the lies are intentional.

And, in the final scenes of the night that were clearly taken after the final rose, we could all see Luke smiling, as if to say 'I got away with it again'.  She is a moron, blinded not by her heart or her mind, but by another part of her body.  It's not a good look for her.

[Stats Queen]

3 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

It's scary how he seems to evoke sympathy sometimes!  Sympathy for what?  He has all the warning signs of a wife murderer.  Everything he says he pretends he doesn't in a few hours.  Very scary.

Yes, it is very scary. I don’t understand the sympathy for him either.

His manipulative behavior and messing with Hannah’s mind is classic abuser type behavior. He basically said that he is the arbitrator of right and wrong. This is the beginning of what many abusers do in their relationships- I speak from personal experience. They start with the emotional abuse and mind games. On a scale of 1-10 he is a 6-7 (IMO) of the escalation of overt mental mind games/manipulating emotions. Most abusers start at 1-2 and slowly work their way up. 

My ex husband played all the same mind games with me as Luke has been doing with Hannah (a woman he isn’t even exclusively dating) before we got married. I was naive in terms of intimate, close relationships with men. He took that to his advantage. As soon as we got married his behavior escalated quickly, including locking me IN our own apartment, being sexually abusive and then he decided his new hobby would be beating me up.

If I hadn’t got out when I did, I feel sure I wouldn’t be alive today. When I told him I was leaving I packed a small bag and he tried to prevent me from leaving the house. When I got in my car to leave he threw himself on the front windshield - I drove anyway. When I moved my stuff out I found a loaded gun between the mattresses on his side of the bed.

Every, every part of me gets the creeps with Luke, especially with his manipulative, gas  lighting behavior this past episode. I am really angry with TPTB not removing him from the show. 

(I’ve been happily remarried for almost 25 years 😻)

[TheFinalRose]

2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Exactly, and that's why I kind of like him.  He always starts out completely honest with Hannah; he felt jealous about the naked thing, was worried his mom wouldn't like her after that, etc.  Then when it makes her mad, he starts frantically back pedaling, trying to tell her he didn't really say what we all heard him say.  That's what I call immature behavior, saying he didn't steal the cookie while holding the cookie in his hand, bad non-apology where he's sorry she's mad, but not sorry for what he said.  What I don't call it is gaslighting because gaslighting is much more subtle and powerful than Luke's childish behavior.

I don't think Hannah is the right girl for Luke, but I don't think he would be an evil controlling husband

Judyobscure this is exactly how I see it too. Minus the villain music and shots of Garrett's eye-rolling, Luke doesn't read totally evil/psycho gaslighter to me. Evil was Chad who got physical and had to be restrained. Part of the problem is Hannah ... if she likes the guy, why not enjoy her time with him instead of playing detective as to what is going on in the house?  

Yes, Luke is deluded in terms of his self-esteem and claim to Hannah's heart, but it's almost a romance novel trope at this point: Male protagonist who falls in love at first sight, is bad at expressing himself which leads to numerous conflicts and breakups, but couple is sizzling hot for each other and can't quit the relationship.

Garrett is the secondary character here, riling up the protagonist, vying for the heroine's heart, probably egged on by production with the promise of a first-day entree onto BIP. 

At this point, I'm more turned off by Garrett than Luke.

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 minute ago, TheFinalRose said:

Part of the problem is Hannah ... if she likes the guy, why not enjoy her time with him instead of playing detective as to what is going on in the house?  

I think another poster put it best when they said Hannah was stomping her feet and upset because the other guys in the house don't like her boyfriend.

[TheFinalRose]

1 minute ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

think another poster put it best when they said Hannah was stomping her feet and upset because the other guys in the house don't like her boyfriend.

Yes, and that aligns with her admission that every day is a struggle for her not to be influenced by what others want/think/do. 

[JudyObscure]

Yes, and I still don't think it's gaslighting unless the victim is believing it.  In the movies the man was always a distinguished older gentleman and the wife very sheltered and naive, so she tended to believe everything he said.  Hannah calls Luke on all his double talk, and he usually looks bewildered because he doesn't realize he's doing it.  He believes his own lies and needs a trusted friend to check him every time until he sees it for himself and breaks the habit.. I'm guessing he was a very spoiled little boy.  Luke will never be smart enough to gaslight anyone.  

As for the producers setting up the dates, they do, but I've always heard the star has the right to veto.  When Hannah and Garrett got to the bungee spot, she said she knew it was going to be jumping but not the nude part.  Then when they stepped out on the platform she said they had decided to do the jump naked but knew they didn't have to.  I think she was told to mention that just so the show wouldn't get in trouble.  As Hannah will tell you she's a "grown ass woman," and she knows she doesn't have to jump "butt ass naked" if she chooses not to.

[alexa]

8 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

Yes, and I still don't think it's gaslighting unless the victim is believing it.  In the movies the man was always a distinguished older gentleman and the wife very sheltered and naive, so she tended to believe everything he said.  Hannah calls Luke on all his double talk, and he usually looks bewildered because he doesn't realize he's doing it.  He believes his own lies and needs a trusted friend to check him every time until he sees it for himself and breaks the habit.. I'm guessing he was a very spoiled little boy.  Luke will never be smart enough to gaslight anyone.  

As for the producers setting up the dates, they do, but I've always heard the star has the right to veto.  When Hannah and Garrett got to the bungee spot, she said she knew it was going to be jumping but not the nude part.  Then when they stepped out on the platform she said they had decided to do the jump naked but knew they didn't have to.  I think she was told to mention that just so the show wouldn't get in trouble.  As Hannah will tell you she's a "grown ass woman," and she knows she doesn't have to jump "butt ass naked" if she chooses not to.

I don't know... I don't think he is as innocent as you are claiming.  I think he knows exactly what he is doing--people like that are very good at trying to act naive and innocent.  I see what you are saying, but I think this is exactly how women get caught up with the wrong men sometimes--they pull his kind of stuff, and they fall for it.  

[LuvMyShows]

3 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Hannah's face while she was having dinner conversation with Garrett was such weird Hannah.  He was talking quite seriously about something and she was grinning so wide she was actually laughing a little. 

I found that so odd, and kept wondering if there was something we missed before that, that had just tickled her so much that she couldn't quite get it out of her head.  We have seen her put on her 'focused and serious' look before, so it's not like she can't do it.

5 hours ago, Nowhere said:

I’ve said before, Luke can’t win with Hannah. She tells him to open up or else. Now, when he says how he really feels about a situation, nope, sorry, wrong again. 

But you can want someone to open up, and still not like what they have to say.  One is not obligated to agree with or be pleased by something, just because someone is opening up about it, but you can still be very glad they told you.  (In fact, Hannah thanked him for opening up, but then said she didn't like what he said, or something like that.)  Hannah needs to have a window into Luke's head, because they are having so many problems.  And that's the first step, just getting him to speak honestly.  Then she can learn how he views things, express her opinion, and see where they do or don't align.  The problem is twofold: One, that she doesn't like what he is feeling and believing, showing that they are so on opposite pages, and two, that he doesn't own what he feels and believes after he says it, and seems to be insincerely and expediently backpedaling and dissembling.

Edited June 25, 2019 by LuvMyShows
add an extra thought

[Starlight925]

Hannah is so young, so she doesn't see his gaslighting for what it is.  

I'm much older than she is, and it took me almost 3 years to get out of my gaslighting relationship.  They are that good at it.

A true emotional abuser (which I'm now believing Luke is) covers himself so well that the victims sees herself as "crazy".  Which Hannah said last night, using that exact word:  "I'm not sure if I'm in love or just going crazy".

Luke is doing a tremendous job of gaslighting, saying one thing, then backpedaling and making it seem like something else, all the while keeping Hannah engaged enough to continue.

When this is all over, I hope she watches the tapes so she can see this for what it is.

[waving feather]

How is Jed a singer? Dude can hardly carry a tune.

[debbie311]

When Hannah was talking to Chris H. at the end, I think during the previews, she said to him "I am either falling in love with Luke or I am going crazy."  Did I hear that right?  It does make me wonder if they are cutting out their make-out sessions.  I don't see the appeal of him AT ALL.

I think this show is losing whatever romantic innocence it once had.  You know, true love and romance. I don't recall Trista behaving that way, with multiple guys. I felt like I was watching porn last night.  I think she is just in it for the sex.  And I am sure many will say big deal to that, guys do it, but it's not what I want to see. I thought the object was to find a husband. By the time they get to the fantasy suite, which at one time was a big thing, she has "straddled and grinded" (as someone else already said) all of them.  And do they tell her she has to jump and wrap her legs around every guy?  Who does that in real life.

She said last night that she believes her husband is in the room.  In the little time she supposedly has with the guys, why isn't she asking questions like, do you want children?  Where do you want to live? How do you feel about finances, handling money?  Oh, I know that those are all boring, not sexy topics.  But they are important if you are picking a life partner.  Oh I know that they have time after they get engaged to discuss these things, which is probably why the majority break up anyway.  It is such a farce at this point. I guess it will just get progressively salacious with future seasons. ABC might want to consider airing it at a later hour, maybe starting at 10 pm instead of 8.

I enjoy the travel shots and I like the home town visits, so I will probably still watch, but there is no one on the show that I really like.

[Koalagirl]

During the bungy jump I kept wondering if Hannah’s French wire earrings would fall out while she was hanging upside down!

[Starlight925]

4 minutes ago, Koalagirl said:

During the bungy jump I kept wondering if Hannah’s French wire earrings would fall out while she was hanging upside down!

Me too!  I even paused it to notice that she didn't even have stoppers in them, but they seemed to have made it!

Did anyone else notice that the bungee crew apparently threw her bra down into the river?

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

Yes, and I still don't think it's gaslighting unless the victim is believing it.  In the movies the man was always a distinguished older gentleman and the wife very sheltered and naive, so she tended to believe everything he said.  Hannah calls Luke on all his double talk, and he usually looks bewildered because he doesn't realize he's doing it.  He believes his own lies and needs a trusted friend to check him every time until he sees it for himself and breaks the habit.. I'm guessing he was a very spoiled little boy.  Luke will never be smart enough to gaslight anyone.  

Abuse is okay as long as the victim is strong enough for it to not have an effect on them?  I disagree.  It's like saying shooting someone is okay if they're wearing a bulletproof vest.  

[Starlight925]

9 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Abuse is okay as long as the victim is strong enough for it to not have an effect on them?  I disagree.  It's like saying shooting someone is okay if they're wearing a bulletproof vest.  

Exactly.

This is like saying that theft is ok as long as the person the thief stole from doesn't realize the item is missing.

Or that it would be ok to physically abuse someone in a coma, who cannot feel it.

The onus for abuse belongs solely on the abuser, not on the abused.  

Yes, Luke, I'm speaking about you, you crazy-making Mo-Fo.

Edited June 25, 2019 by Sterling

[LuvMyShows]

20 minutes ago, debbie311 said:

When Hannah was talking to Chris H. at the end, I think during the previews, she said to him "I am either falling in love with Luke or I am going crazy."  Did I hear that right?  It does make me wonder if they are cutting out their make-out sessions.  I don't see the appeal of him AT ALL.

I think this show is losing whatever romantic innocence it once had.  You know, true love and romance. 

In the little time she supposedly has with the guys, why isn't she asking questions like, do you want children?  Where do you want to live? How do you feel about finances, handling money?  Oh, I know that those are all boring, not sexy topics.  But they are important if you are picking a life partner.  Oh I know that they have time after they get engaged to discuss these things, which is probably why the majority break up anyway.  It is such a farce at this point. 

The show is playing to an audience that I guess exists, that wants drama and Real Housewives type of antics.  But what most of the Primetimers seem to want, myself included, is the love and romance aspect, and to get to know ALL the characters, not just get bombarded with the chosen few.  And to essentially be able to put ourselves into the lead's shoes, by being given enough insight into what they see/learn/experience with the contestants, so that we can play along at home essentially.

The contestants absolutely do have those conversations about real-world things, but TPTB choose not to show it.  In fact, it is apparently the conversations that Hannah and Luke had about religion and political beliefs, that led to their great connection, but we weren't shown any of it!  For some good insight into what it's really like on the show, check out the blogs of Sharleen Joynt (the opera singer from Juan Pablo's season).  (Also, her site has a link to the interview with Chris Harrison where he mentions the religion/politics connection with Hannah and Luke.)  Either we really are in the minority for wanting to hear those kinds of conversations, or TPTB is just blind to what most people really want.

[RealHousewife]

1 hour ago, debbie311 said:

I think this show is losing whatever romantic innocence it once had.  You know, true love and romance. I don't recall Trista behaving that way, with multiple guys. I felt like I was watching porn last night.  I think she is just in it for the sex.  And I am sure many will say big deal to that, guys do it, but it's not what I want to see. I thought the object was to find a husband. By the time they get to the fantasy suite, which at one time was a big thing, she has "straddled and grinded" (as someone else already said) all of them.  And do they tell her she has to jump and wrap her legs around every guy?  Who does that in real life.

She said last night that she believes her husband is in the room.  In the little time she supposedly has with the guys, why isn't she asking questions like, do you want children?  Where do you want to live? How do you feel about finances, handling money?  Oh, I know that those are all boring, not sexy topics.  But they are important if you are picking a life partner.  Oh I know that they have time after they get engaged to discuss these things, which is probably why the majority break up anyway.  It is such a farce at this point. I guess it will just get progressively salacious with future seasons. ABC might want to consider airing it at a later hour, maybe starting at 10 pm instead of 8.

I didn’t watch this show in the beginning, but I thought there was supposed to be a “romantic innocence” to it. I’m not seeing a whole lot of that this season. I can’t imagine some of the Bachelorettes behaving like Hannah just based off what I’ve seen of them in interviews. Maybe that’s because they’re a bit older now and married? I don’t know. I get that the whole premise of the show is ludicrous and that it’s not a normal way to date someone, but why make it even more outrageous? Can we at least limit the physical stuff to a little kissing? I would be really grossed out if I were to be engaged and my fiancé had just slept with two other people. I was quite shocked by the fantasy suites when I started watching the show. 

I want to see the people on the show having conversations with more depth and having it be a two-way thing. It shouldn’t be just about what the Bachelorette or Bachelor is looking for. What the contestants are looking for in a wife/husband matters too. I want more romance, more innocent flirting, more talk about how they see marriage and family. 

I guess I prefer seeing somewhat of a Charlotte York type of gal on this show. And I know she’s kind of a caricature of a romantic woman who wants to get married. But I do want someone who’s serious and mature. Less pageant smiling, scolding, and straddling. There’s already so much raunch on TV. Having some handsome gentleman court a pretty lady would be refreshing. 

I know I sound like a prude old lady that could be her grandmother, but I don’t even have a decade on Hannah.   

It’s a shame there were all these guys who we hardly got to know. I also don’t know why they’d edit out serious conversations if Hannah is in fact having them. Religion and politics are important to many of us. Those conversations can make for some really interesting TV. I’m not saying I want it to get political or like we’re watching the news, but your political and religious views matter, just as whether or not you have sexual compatibility.

I agree with all the Tyler love. He looks like he was plucked out of some old movie. The show casts attractive people. But there’s attractive, and there’s Tyler. He’s really, really ridiculously good-looking. I can’t get over it.

Edited June 25, 2019 by RealHousewife

[DEL901]

Quote

“I’m shocked,” he says gravely. “Her body is her temple, and to expose it to anyone who isn’t her husband… That’s a slap in my face.” 

This Luke quote is from the EW recap.  It shows just how delusional Luke is.  Why is it a slap in his face more than any other of the final 9?  He considers that she's his and he can't understand why she's still dating all these other men.  I hope the show has a restraining order ready to be invoked if she doesn't choose him in the end.

[dirtypop90]

22 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

I didn’t watch this show in the beginning, but I thought there was supposed to be a “romantic innocence” to it. I’m not seeing a whole lot of that this season. I can’t imagine some of the Bachelorettes behaving like Hannah just based off what I’ve seen of them in interviews. Maybe that’s because they’re a bit older now and married? I don’t know. I get that the whole premise of the show is ludicrous and that it’s not a normal way to date someone, but why make it even more outrageous? Can we at least limit the physical stuff to a little kissing? I would be really grossed out if I were to be engaged and my fiancé had just slept with two other people. I was quite shocked by the fantasy suites when I started watching the show. 

I want to see the people on the show having conversations with more depth and having it be a two-way thing. It shouldn’t be just about what the Bachelorette or Bachelor is looking for. What the contestants are looking for in a wife/husband matters too. I want more romance, more innocent flirting, more talk about how they see marriage and family. 

What’s so interesting is the fact that the guys are trying to have real conversations with her, even HotTyler.  I noticed last episode they are talking on the couch, and she drags him to the bed.  This ep, he asks a question about her (her favorite topic) and she cuts him off with a kiss.  She’s not even trying to listen to anyone that isn’t Luke.  She lets Jed sing but he doesn’t do much talking to her either.

Now this could be because she knows her choice, Luke.  So no need to let the others speak.  But then Luke has a point—why is she straddling men, i.e. Tyler, Peter, or going topless with them, Garett, if they don’t have a chance?  She can’t both be looking for a husband, whom she found in Luke AND trying to make up for the the fact that she only had two boyfriends before this.  You can’t do both at the same time.  Either you want to play the field or look for a husband.  And if it’s the latter it’s confusing she is so sexually aggressive with men that have no shot at being her husband (good for them).

Edited June 25, 2019 by dirtypop90

[ljenkins782]

55 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Quote

Yes, and I still don't think it's gaslighting unless the victim is believing it.  In the movies the man was always a distinguished older gentleman and the wife very sheltered and naive, so she tended to believe everything he said.  Hannah calls Luke on all his double talk, and he usually looks bewildered because he doesn't realize he's doing it.  He believes his own lies and needs a trusted friend to check him every time until he sees it for himself and breaks the habit.. I'm guessing he was a very spoiled little boy.  Luke will never be smart enough to gaslight anyone. 

Abuse is okay as long as the victim is strong enough for it to not have an effect on them?  I disagree.  It's like saying shooting someone is okay if they're wearing a bulletproof vest.  

I don't think that was the OP's point. Gaslighting is an intentional act and it reads to me like the OP questioning whether Luke is really doing it. Also, I don't think Hannah is necessarily questioning her sanity in terms of what he says vs what she hears, I think she's confused by why she still likes this guy. It can be hard to let go of an initial attraction once you find out the person isn't what you thought/hoped they'd be.

I'm not sure where my feelings fall, a lot of the scenes involving Luke seem like a really badly acted play. He appears to be projecting to the back row, which always sets off my fakeness meter. 

[Biosynth]

14 hours ago, adhoc said:

That's Jed's singing? I hope he has a "Plan B" career lined up.

My deaf husband asked me if his singing was any good.  I told him that he plays guitar and piano well and can write a cute song, but his singing isn't that good.

[MissPriss]

Musician here. He plays the piano well. Period. Everything else is mediocre or below. 🥴 He’ll never have a career with his music. And this show certainly won’t upgrade his resume. 

[mishap]

I just watched this episode of the Bachelorette - Soft porn/ driver's education edition.  

I agree that she seems to want to make out with them more than talk with them.  I say 'soft porn' because of how they always seems to be perfectly arranged, whether on the bed, in the sauna, or on a pool table.   I guess it seems like they probably say 'cut', and rearrange the shot, to get the best angles.  It seems more like a show and it's fine with me.  I don't really want to see people making out like that , for real.  Oh, and the giant pickle.  Not surprised that this show  can go tacky, but it still got an eye roll from me.  

I have lost all confidence in my driving abilities.  What if I really need to change lanes?  Can I look in the other lanes?  I don't know what to do!!!  

[Ms Blue Jay]

39 minutes ago, ljenkins782 said:

I don't think that was the OP's point. Gaslighting is an intentional act and it reads to me like the OP questioning whether Luke is really doing it. Also, I don't think Hannah is necessarily questioning her sanity in terms of what he says vs what she hears, I think she's confused by why she still likes this guy. It can be hard to let go of an initial attraction once you find out the person isn't what you thought/hoped they'd be.

I assume you're responding to me.  Either way, it is my opinion that gaslighting is damaging to somebody whether the action is "intentional" or not, and that's why I don't think it's a good thing to do to someone whether you intend to or not.  Point is I don't really care about Luke's intentions and they don't matter.  Hannah should have dumped him Ep 1. 

Regardless of his intentions he:  gaslights, lies outright again and again and again, is manipulative, is possessive, is controlling, is jealous.  And they're not even a couple.  I also think he has weird issues surrounding a woman's autonomy and women's choices with respect to their own bodies.

Edited June 25, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[saber5055]

11 minutes ago, MissPriss said:

Musician here. He plays the piano well.

I did like the piano, and thought that was sexy. But the guitar ... and the singing ... yoiks! He dispelled any rumors he came on this show to promote that career.

12 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

Nick's hair looked like he maybe got those hair plugs....it looked fuller in front where I thought previously he had forehead. 

It took me almost the entire Annabelle commercial to figure out that was Nick. Not sure if that's a good or bad thing. Maybe his name being shown on screen helped me?

[the eskimo]

So am I the only one who saw an insane amount of chemistry between Hannah and Pilot Peter? I came out of that date thinking he has been the secret frontrunner all along. Just the way she was talking to him....some of the things she said seemed like "code" when she was talking about how excited she is to see what happens with them. Plus that sauna makeout session made it seem like they've made out before. Am I losing it?

I can see how Hannah would be appealing to a lot of guys. She has a body to die for, seems like she has a decent sense of humor, etc. But her insane energy would drive me nuts in about 20 minutes. All of the "woo"-ing and hands in the air celebrations when she accomplishes...well, pretty much anything. I can imagine her going to take a poop and running out of the bathroom with her hand in the air, yelling "wooo! I did it! I did it better and faster than you did! woooo!" and thinking she's just the cutest thing ever. Is this what 24 is these days?

[JenE4]

1 hour ago, LuvMyShows said:

The show is playing to an audience that I guess exists, that wants drama and Real Housewives type of antics.  But what most of the Primetimers seem to want, myself included, is the love and romance aspect, and to get to know ALL the characters, not just get bombarded with the chosen few.  And to essentially be able to put ourselves into the lead's shoes, by being given enough insight into what they see/learn/experience with the contestants, so that we can play along at home essentially.

The contestants absolutely do have those conversations about real-world things, but TPTB choose not to show it.  In fact, it is apparently the conversations that Hannah and Luke had about religion and political beliefs, that led to their great connection, but we weren't shown any of it!  For some good insight into what it's really like on the show, check out the blogs of Sharleen Joynt (the opera singer from Juan Pablo's season).  (Also, her site has a link to the interview with Chris Harrison where he mentions the religion/politics connection with Hannah and Luke.)  Either we really are in the minority for wanting to hear those kinds of conversations, or TPTB is just blind to what most people really want.

I think we’re 50/50 Wrong Reasons/Right Reasons watchers. (I think this group used to skew more toward Wrong Reasons, but we’ve seemed to have dropped regulars over the last handful of seasons.) But this is too Wrong Reasons even for me! This just isn’t fun watching the “Lane Changing with Luke” or “Hannah Puts Down Her Foot...Then Tip-Toes Away” hour week after painstaking week. Give me “villians” like Jed—here for his music career and with a girlfriend back home—don’t put emotional abuse on my TV and tell me it’s “entertainment.” Harrison needs to give Hannah an intervention. Meanwhile Hannah said last week in the Very Special Recap show that Luke was the best kisser—I guess to explain how she was so dickmatized as to why she didn’t send him home, but we’ve SEEN these full-on makeout sessions with multiple guys, so she obviously has physical chemistry with these other dudes, too.

[ljenkins782]

16 minutes ago, JenE4 said:

I think we’re 50/50 Wrong Reasons/Right Reasons watchers. (I think this group used to skew more toward Wrong Reasons, but we’ve seemed to have dropped regulars over the last handful of seasons.) But this is too Wrong Reasons even for me! This just isn’t fun watching the “Lane Changing with Luke” or “Hannah Puts Down Her Foot...Then Tip-Toes Away” hour week after painstaking week. Give me “villians” like Jed—here for his music career and with a girlfriend back home—don’t put emotional abuse on my TV and tell me it’s “entertainment.” Harrison needs to give Hannah an intervention. Meanwhile Hannah said last week in the Very Special Recap show that Luke was the best kisser—I guess to explain how she was so dickmatized as to why she didn’t send him home, but we’ve SEEN these full-on makeout sessions with multiple guys, so she obviously has physical chemistry with these other dudes, too.

For me, I'm 100% wrong reasons. The 1-1 dates bore me to tears, I always look forward to the return to the house so the drama can kick back up again. It's just not that interesting to me to watch someone's love story unfold, but it's very interesting to me how this unnatural dynamic causes tension and how people respond to it. 

But it gets boring when it's one person sucking up all the air in the room. And when that one person has one line that he can't stop repeating (anyone using "Stay in your lane/our lanes" as a drinking game would be hospitalized by the end of the show), it's especially dull. 

I'm finding it hard to identify who's going to be there at the end, because I honestly don't think it'll be Luke. It's an extreme rarity that the over-the-top villain wins, but they can sometimes hang on as long as F4, so I'm not totally shocked that he's still there, but I'm not sure who I think will be in the finals because no one else is getting enough air time to tell. 

[Biosynth]

Having been on the receiving end of gaslighting and abuse from a former husband, I can say that Luke really exhibits all those qualities.  It's almost like a flashback when I watch this show.  Only Luke is moderately better looking than my ex. 

When she picked Luke, my now husband looked at me with his jaw dropped.  I blame it on Hannah's inexperience, her age, and production.

When Luke starts demanding that she drop all her family and friends, I hope that she has the strength to tell him to pack his bags.

[nlkm9]

14 hours ago, TheFinalRose said:

I'm getting more convinced that after every conversation between Hannah and Luke they are locking lips for about twenty minutes and we are not seeing it. Hannah spent a whole one-on-one date telling Luke to open up but when you beg people to tell you what they're thinking sometimes what they are thinking is going to piss you off.  Despite what we're seeing, she's more emotionally into him than any other guy.

I think the producers got to the guys and told them to step in up because Hannah wasn't feeling it in Latvia. That's why they were over energetic on the group date (and man, wasn't Hannah drunk on that? Can we talk about the pickle?) buying her flowers, uber-make-out sessions, running over to her balcony and strumming tunes. All of a sudden there were a lot of "gestures."

I'm not so sure about Pilot Peter. He seems like such a dweeb and she'd get bored with him. I still want Tyler for the next Bachelor and then, of course, he'll go from there to Dancing with the Stars. Done deal. 

I think too, we are missing makeouts--there is no way she would keep him just on conversation--its wierd and we all know how production likes to mess with us.