S08.E06: The Iron Throne

[Athena]

Episode Synopsis:

TBA

Reminder: 

There is open air book talk here. If you are just watching the TV show and you don't want to stumble into any book talk you should leave now. Book Talk assumes you have read all the books to date. Any information from unpublished books, such as preview chapters should be in spoiler tags.

[raven]

Hate it? Love it?  Indifferent?

Keep your comments about the show, the story, the characters, the writers; NOT your fellow posters or other groups of fans.

Thank you.

[Spartan Girl]

Thanks, I hate it.

I liked Sansa's crown though.

[Joan van Snark]

Pretty boring really for a show I've watched since the beginning....

[Sakura12]

Well that was as lacklusters as I figured it would it would be. At least Dany's way would've been more exciting to watch. 

[Scarlett45]

Jon killing Dany so early was a surprise. But BRAN as king?!! Wtf. Jon never wanted power so I think he will be happy and fulfilled at The Nightswatch. Sansa can still visit him sometimes. I’m fanwanking that Arya will have adventures and come home one day. 

[screamin]

Bleh.

[raven]

Drogon out-acted Kit Harrington in the post-Dany's death scene.   Sorry, Kit, you're still pretty.

The episode looked gorgeous; the shot of Drogon shaking the snow off when Jon approaches looked so good; as did the shot of Drogon on top of the building.

It would have been excellent if the last scene was Bran, by himself, standing up from his chair and cackling wildly.

[AuxArx]

Well, it ended with a whimper, not a bang.  But that's okay, there were enough bangs leading up to the finale. 

Best part:  Ghost got his boy back!

Where were Jon and all those people headed at the end?

Laughed at the conversation about the merit of brothels or not.

Worst part:  Tormund needed to go comfort Brienne.

All in all, a pretty satisfactory end.

[Sakura12]

Now they can wait for Drogon's kids to come back and burn everything to avenge Dany. Lol 

[Captain Carrot]

Sansa being Queen of the North makes sense. Jon going north of the wall makes sense. Bran being king, kinda makes sense. (Probably more a failure in execution since the show runners never figured out how to show why Bran was important).

But when did Arya ever indicate a desire to sail or explore the world?

[anamika]

So the North get special privileges and independence over kingdoms like Dorne and the Iron Islands? fucking lol! But hey, D&D got to make Sansa queen like they always wanted. 

Jon and Ghost was the only good thing about this episode for me. That and Arya leaving this mess of a story.

Brienne writing Jaime's conclusion. What a joke.

That bro council at the end, ugh.

Tyrion getting off  free after making Jon do his dirty work. No consequences to his shitty decision making skills for three seasons.

Edited May 20, 2019 by anamika

[Eyes High]

I thought they were going somewhere with Sansa/Tyrion this season, but I guess he was in love with Dany the whole time...? Oh, well.

Tyrion’s argument for King Bran was bullshit. I assume they had to get to Book Bran’s endgame, but still. Why wasn’t Jon’s claim brought up during that discussion? I assume Varys told everyone.

I never thought Sansa would be endgame QITN in the books. Badass costume, though.

The bit with Brienne filling out Jaime’s entry was lovely. And I love that Pod is a kingsguard, too.

Edited May 20, 2019 by Eyes High

[meligator]

Bran being king is bullshit. Did the Dothraki really just say -okay, peace - and leave?

[SeanC]

That was so, so very dumb. Any claim this series had to be about a drama about politics and power went out the window about fourteen different times there.

And that’s without going into the incredible hit-job on Jon’s character.  That he needed Tyrion to slow-walk him through all the reasons he had to kill Daenerys even after she massacred an entire city is...I don't even know.

I wish that, after the prolonged argument with Tyrion, he had emerged from the cell to find that Arya had already killed Daenerys while he was moping.

I did laugh at Tyrion giving his speech about the end of hereditary rule meaning the breaking of the wheel, followed immediately by Sansa declaring that the North was going to secede.  Sansa's plot powers are so strong she can even defeat the overarching moral of the show.

[mac123x]

That was thoroughly whelming.  Didn't help that I'd watched the New Rockstars' "prediction" video that was so on the nose it was obviously based on spoilers.

Robin Arryn grew up hot.  I wonder who a couple of the other lords were (like the dude between Sam and Edmure) at the Not-So-Great Council.  Sansa shutting down her uncle made me genuinely laugh out loud.

2 minutes ago, Captain Carrot said:

But when did Arya ever indicate a desire to sail or explore the world?

Back in Braavos after she got stabbed and that actress was nursing her back to health, she said basically the same lines about wanting to find out what was west of West.

[SeanC]

2 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

I never thought Sansa would be endgame QITN in the books. Badass costume, though.

I have no idea why Bran would become king of everywhere except the North.

[HeySandyStrange]

As much as I've had my share of issues with the show,  I am sad to see it go. 

Danny's death was pretty sad. When you get down to it, in a sea of tragedy, hers was in some ways the most tragic story. It was particularly sad to see poor Drogon trying to nudge her awake.

Greyworm sailing to Naath without Misandei...damn, the room got dusty.

Arya becoming an adventurer seemed to fit.

Nice to see peeps like Edmire and Robyn Arrayn again.

Thank jeebus Brienne wasn't knocked up and was on the council. Could've done without that cutthroat Bronn getting what he didn't deserve .

Jon leaving with the Wildings seemed right.

Edited May 20, 2019 by HeySandyStrange

[SeanC]

Brienne seriously wrote that Jaime "took Riverrun from the Tully rebels"?

I'm pretty sure Catelyn is going to come back to life just to kill her.  We'll get Lady Stoneheart after all!

[phoenix780]

Not sure how I feel about it, much like I felt after last week. This series gave me a lot of great moments, it didn't drag on too long, and the finale wasn't terrible, so that's good. But...I think I'm still rooting for Dany, because it was a little too rushed for me to not only believe she was wrong (even with the speech tonight and slaughter last week) and believe that the mysterious three eyed raven is somehow now the right one to define good and bad. Why is it better? It knows more, but it also didn't exactly act to save innocents from dying. 

I'll figure out if I liked the end whenever I can make up an answer for that, I think. 

I really hope they leave it alone now, no sequel series. 

[Enigma X]

Jon in the books and on the show has always been my favorite character.  I am glad he lived but hate this ending and season. I cried but not because this episode gave me melancholy feels but because nothing about this season was what I hoped.

And having Dany dressed in black leather was a bit cliche now that the writers had her unconvincingly slip to the dark side. Just because she was dressed like a medieval dominatrix does not convince me she earned the evil portrayal of her. 

Edited May 20, 2019 by Enigma X

[Sentient Meat]

So his brother is King of Westeros, his sister is Queen of the North, his other sister is Christopher Columbus... and Jon Snow still has to stay with the Night Watch? Grey Worm needs to get a grip...

I predicted Sansa and Tyrion would rule at the end so I was satisfied that I sort of got it right.

Decent ending that seemed to build up to the possibility of a sequel so I can't complain.

Thanks to all involved for such a great show!

[mac123x]

1 minute ago, SeanC said:

I have no idea why Bran would become king of everywhere except the North.

Oh oh, I know!  It's because that's one of the bullet points GRRM gave D&D for various character end games, but being hacks who were obviously tired of this gig, they had no way of writing his story to get him there logically.

[jcin617]

I'm going to assume GRRM told them Bran's on the throne when all is said and done.   And it makes a certain kind of poetic sense, if you assume "the true war" never stopped until the 3ER sat the throne (life) versus the NK (death).

Did Dany stop to realize her vision in the House of the Undying about the ruined Throne Room covered in snow came true because of her?   I wasn't sure she realized that, or was just in awe of the throne itself.

Edited May 20, 2019 by jcin617

[anamika]

All that Nazi imagery with Dany and the Unsullied, damn. D&D really are tone deaf.

They keep wanting me to give a damn about Dany's soldiers killing Lannister soldiers, but I am just not caring at this point about evil Dany because it's done so badly.

[galaxygirl76]

So Jon died, was resurrected, found out who his parents are, all to go back where he started. Alrighty then.

[tomsmom]

Nah. Too much Tyrion walking, speechifying and wait....rearranging furniture??? Still got mad love for you show but....Nah.

[dargosmydaddy]

Ugh.

My one enjoyment was that Pod lived, and became a knight. Too bad Ser Pod's duties are pushing Bran out of council meetings.

Otherwise... just no.

[Jextella]

LOVED IT!

[raven]

1 minute ago, SeanC said:

Brienne seriously wrote that Jaime "took Riverrun from the Tully rebels"?

Ugh, I hated that whole scene.  Way to continue to prop up Jamie and make Brienne look foolish.

Though Peter Dinklage was acting his ass off, I had to laugh when he uncovered Jamie and Cersei, so very dead but still looking good, with the pure light shining down on them.  Never mind that it was their incest and gross, unhealthly obsession with each other (actually, Jamie's for Cersei, since she has been shown to take other lovers, no problem) that caused a whole lot of carnage.

But family!! Tyrion loved them!!! LOL.

[mac123x]

2 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

And having Danny dressed in black leather was a bit cliche now that the writers had her unconvincingly slip to the dark side.

I haven't seen the "Behind the Scenes" thingy yet, but I guarantee someone references Leni Riefenstahl for Dany's speech to the army scene.  Just my opinion, but "this is an homage to 'Triumph of the Will'" is getting to be a tiresome cliche.

[Captain Carrot]

5 minutes ago, mac123x said:

Back in Braavos after she got stabbed and that actress was nursing her back to health, she said basically the same lines about wanting to find out what was west of West.

I had forgotten all about that. I wouldn't want some corny exposition to remind the viewers of that scene, but they really should of had at least one line at some point this season where she mentions that she liked traveling.

[Sakura12]

Drogon showing up the minute his mother died was the only thing that got to me this finale. Then he just burned that stupid chair. Well he did listen to her, she wanted to burn everything down that includes the throne that she never actually sat in. 

Bran being King is so dumb. They want a King that will never make any decisions because he's not supposed to give spoilers. That council was a joke. Tyrion is still making stupid mistakes as Hand. Who in their right mind would make Bronn the Master of Coin? He cares about no one but himself. 

I'll also roll my eyes at Jamie getting a hero edit in his Knight page. So basically if you are a Stark or a Lannister you can be as cruel and terrible as everyone else but you get everything you ever wanted. 

Sansa wanted to be Queen as much as Dany did. That's why she would never bow to her. She didn't care about anything else. She wanted the North for herself. 

The only Stark I liked at the end was Arya. 

[anamika]

So did we get the ending to the joke about the honeycomb and the jackass?

Jon and Arya at the end. The good bye was nice. At least something of an ending for these two considering how much I like their relationship in the books.

[Oscirus]

So Sansa's qitn and shes going to lose that in about a year. They barely respected her with Jon there, I can't imagine they'll do so when she doesn't even have protection of the crown anymore.

You put a mercenary as your master of coin. Yea I don't see how that's gonna go off the rails.

Jaimes knight guard entry being lengthened was the only thing I called, even if it wasn't Brienne I saw doing it.

So Aryas entire arc was to kill the night king. That's it, nothing else apparently.

Tyrion being kingsmaker was weird as hell, though I didn't hate the fact that being hand is more of a punishment for him now.

The end of hereditary rule and the beginning of election by council is likely not going to end up well. This is the exact sort of thing that'll allow a littlefinger type to become king. Also I love that Bran is abandoning council meetings to go watch tv now.

Nights watch will be about rebuilding the wall I assume.

[Sakura12]

It was also dumb that Jon being a Targaryen meant nothing in the end. 

[stagmania]

I was spoiled for this, and somehow it was still worse than I expected. More than all the ridiculous plot points and problematic character turns, this finale will go down for the biggest sin of all: being excruciatingly boring.

[jcin617]

1 minute ago, Sakura12 said:

It was also dumb that Jon being a Targaryen meant nothing in the end. 

Well, he was the only one who could stop Dany, I suppose.     He's probably the only one Drogon would let through.

[nodorothyparker]

So ... I guess that happened.  All the soaring score from seasons past couldn't make it more than it was, basically here's the surviving Starks and some minor lords we may or may not recognize who were so inconsequential to the story that they somehow survived it deciding to make the weird kid king for ... reasons.  Oh, and we'll just let the North randomly decide to go free on its own but we'll continue to send people to the Wall beyond it again for ... reasons.  All that drama about Jon the secret Targaryen, well, never mind.

I liked Brienne finishing Jaime's page even if I'm not thrilled with her pissing her life away on a kingsguard when she's an heir in her own right.  She's putting her own spin on things because she's the one who lived to write it in the same way the official Song of Ice and Fire (which is just too precious for words) apparently left Tyrion out of the story since the man who made so many bad decisions across the board throughout the wars is still de facto running the place.

[HerLadyship]

3 minutes ago, jcin617 said:

Well, he was the only one who could stop Dany, I suppose.     He's probably the only one Drogon would let through.

This was pretty much my thought when he went by. Also, I don't know that there is anyone else that Drogon wouldn't have killed after. 

[PatsyandEddie]

I totally enjoyed it. Gasped, cried and smiled. 

Drogon and Dany broke my heart though  

[Oscirus]

3 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

It was also dumb that Jon being a Targaryen meant nothing in the end. 

Basically the only thing it meant was that  Sansa was able to use that information to cause turmoil in Danys inner circle. It literally did nothing else.  He didn't even come close to the throne

[FemmyV]

20 minutes ago, Captain Carrot said:

But when did Arya ever indicate a desire to sail or explore the world?

Fan service, courtesy of a throwaway line from Season 6.

[WatchrTina]

I'm weighing in without looking at what anyone else has written to say WELL DONE SHOW!  It was bittersweet, as we all knew it would be, but it did what needed to be done.  It had the flavor of the last few chapters of Lord the Rings (The Scouring of the Shire).  Everyone was damaged, some beyond repair, but it was a new beginning too.

I squealed with joy when I saw Ghost and Tormund though I'm not 100% clear what was going on in that last scene up north.  Is John going to live out his days with the Wildlings?  I thought he was back in his role as Lord Commander fo the Night's Watch. Maybe he's just escorting that group back to their home.  I do wonder what the point is of having a Night's Watch when the White Walkers are gone and the Wildlings have made peace with those who live south of the wall.  I guess the presumption is that the Wildlings would go back to their raiding ways again.

NOTE:  I'm almost certain that two of the actors who played giants in earlier episodes were there in the crowd of Wildings headed north (the taller-than-average-but-clearly-not-giant dudes.)  

Arya sailing into the West is SO Frodo I can't hardly bear it.

So . . . Sansa is "da Queen in the norf!"  Well, good for her. She always wanted to be a Queen.

And Bran sits on the Iron Throne.  That's one ending I did NOT see coming.  At least, not until I heard that a betting site had him as the front-runner (someone on this board posted the info.)  Damnit!   It is IMPOSSIBLE to avoid spoilers these days.

So . . . we've got a Stark sitting on the thrones of the North and the South AND running the Night's Watch.  A new dynasty.  I'm betting whoever Sansa marries (IF she marries) will have to take the name Stark.

As for Dany . . . yeah, sorry about that your Grace.  But you done lost your damn mind.  You had to go.  That being said, I hope Drogon deposited your body in a beautiful location.

And as for Tyrion . . . yeah dude, you helped make this mess so now you get to help clean it up.  With Bronn, Davos, Brienne, and Sam to help you, you should do alright.

Good luck to Gendry as the new head of House Barratheon.

Hmmmm, now I think about it, Tyrion is the new head of House Lannister.  Looks like he'll need to get married again and make some heirs.  (So will Sansa.)

Someone needs to come up with a listing of all the people at that gathering in the DragonPit that we didn't recognize.  They guy in yellow has to be the new Prince of Dorne. Robyn Arran's grown up a bit. But who were the others . . . OH MY GOD I almost forgot the biggest surprise . . . Black Jack Randall Edmure Tully.  I'd completely forgotten about him. Still a jerk.

I'm sorry Grey Worm is so bitter but I'm glad the people of Missande's island will now have their own Unsullied Army to make sure that no matter what wanker is in charge in Mereen or Astapor or Yunkai, they don't get any ideas about raiding that particular island any more.

And speaking of Mereen, alas poor Daario . . . I wonder how he's faring.

Sigh.  That was a good run.  But now my watch is ended.

Edited May 25, 2019 by WatchrTina

[Oscirus]

8 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

liked Brienne finishing Jaime's page even if I'm not thrilled with her pissing her life away on a kingsguard when she's an heir in her own right. 

To be fair it was either be lord commander or be Sansa's guard in winterfell. This was a promotion for her.

[CherryMalotte]

I was spoiled, so no surprises here even though I thought D&D would throw a couple our way but didn't.  That's okay - it wasn't spectacular, but I'm....okay with it.  I'm sad I have nothing to rave about, except for the conversation during the counsel meeting.  That I actually enjoyed.  And really Bran being King, it's just a title in a way, he's just there to guide the other parts of Westeros, like an honorary degree.  

6 minutes ago, mac123x said:

That was thoroughly whelming.  Didn't help that I'd watched the New Rockstars' "prediction" video that was so on the nose it was obviously based on spoilers.

Robin Arryn grew up hot.  I wonder who a couple of the other lords were (like the dude between Sam and Edmure) at the Not-So-Great Council.  Sansa shutting down her uncle made me genuinely laugh out loud

Yeah, Lino...he's very attractive in that lanky way.  I'm impressed.  I think one of them had to be Lord Manderly,  then the Prince Whoeverthehell from Dorne but there was one other as you say, sitting between Sam and Edmure.  

5 minutes ago, mac123x said:

I guarantee someone references Leni Riefenstahl for Dany's speech to the army scene.

That was the first thing I thought of.  Awful as it is Leni knew how to point that camera. 

Really, Arya got the best ending here.  And perhaps Jon will be able to find some peace beyond the wall.  I liked that they had that grass peeking up thru the snow, to me that was a glimpse of something to come...while there's some green beyond the wall maybe they are due for a thaw.  

I can't help but still feel after this that they still needed those couple more episodes to pad it out a bit.    

[Scaeva]

Bran as king is dumb. A king that can't produce an heir is a king whose death is going to birth a civil war. 

Simply saying that a council of great lords will elect the most worthy among them king or queen will not make it so. In Westeros? 

Bran may as well channel Alexander the Great when he dies and will his kingdom "to the strongest." because there is no way war does not decide who succeeds him.

[SeanC]

Sansa at least understands that a monarch needs to have a cool chair and got herself one to sit in, rather than that ugly, plain setup that the show has been using for the Winterfell great hall in previous seasons.

[stagmania]

29 minutes ago, SeanC said:

I have no idea why Bran would become king of everywhere except the North.

So we could get the fan service ending for Sansa. I laughed at the scene of her declaring her independence - while everyone else had to swear fealty to her brother. No way in hell does Yara Greyjoy just sit there and take that.

25 minutes ago, galaxygirl76 said:

So Jon died, was resurrected, found out who his parents are, all to go back where he started. Alrighty then.

I will never get over this. What a waste.

[MKL122788]

Okay, so first off...my major issue with what happened.

Everything before the slight time jump.

Last episode, King's Landing and the red keep was reduced to, basically, nothing. Or so it seemed. Tyrion walks through it, mostly intact. Some devastation, but not a ton. Furthermore, in the crypts where Cersei and Jamie died, there was almost no rubble on the ground. Had they hid in a single dragon skull, they would've lived. I swear that I watched that entire red keep basically implode on itself. Did I delude myself or is that just absolutely god awful consisency in the story?

So, Dany never went all mad queen. The narrative in her head that we do not get to see in the show must be the Dany the conqueror/liberator. This is a much more believable transformation...she became overzealous in her belief that she alone knew what a better world was. She believes that she has to break every society in order to make way for the new one. That would've been a much better buildup into her actions last episode. I look forward to getting to read the inner monologues in the book. That said, with proper advising, this is the kind of shit that would be completely avoided. Intentionally making all of Dany's intelligent advisors act stupid and lead to this runaway thought processes? Not great.

Tyrion having to talk John into believing that she was a big threat to society? This kid is utterly useless. He was so resistant. A nice callback to Aemon, though. Fitting that John is now the Targaryen alone in the world.

Drogon letting John live? Fine. Flying away with Dany? Fine. That dragon is a good boy.

Arya really served no purpose for being in King's Landing, did she?

Pacing was seriously sleep inducing...but at least that is better than the rushed blaze of previous episodes.

After the jump:

Why is everyone bending to Tyrion's will at the trial when he is literally on trial? Oh look, Tyrion says it has been weeks. Oh look, King's Landing is basically already completely rebuilt. That was conveniently fast for it being completely decimated. It also appears to be bustling. Guess too many people didn't die then.

Grey Worm...letting someone who clearly doesn't want either of his prisoners harmed get elected to...do exactly that. Okay, fine. Going to Narth...a tribute to Missandei. Too bad they will all die there.

Bran as king? Meh. Another male character who was literally useless all season failing upward. If he knew all this shit was going to happen and didn't make any attempt at all to stop it, that is some true, next level, power hungry shit. Tyrion becoming hand? Another male character failing upward. John being LCotNW? Same. Having a penis really does matter in Westeros. Honestly, I am meh on most of that. At least he greeted Ghost.

Sansa claiming the north is independent? When she didn't get to be queen, I guess she had to hold on to some power some way. I am meh on this too. She did work hard for the money.

Arya doing her own thing. Alright then.

Brienne finishes Jamie's story was sweet. The new council...ah, boys club. Nice to see change...oh wait. Oh look, more bad jokes. Poor Brienne having to listen to that garbage.

Overall:

Whatever, this episode didn't suck. Some mild irritation that, really, just exposed some maddening inconsistencies in the last 2 seasons of plot and character development. These inconsistencies reached a pinnacle this season. I am okay with this episode relative to the last few for sure.

I am thankful it is all over.

Edited May 20, 2019 by MKL122788