S08.E04: The Last of the Starks

[raven]

Episode Synopsis:

The survivors plan their next steps; Cersei makes a power move.

Reminder: This is for discussion of the TV show only, no book talk allowed - including saying "but it's different in the books". Any spoiler from outside the books (i.e. previews) should be in spoiler tags.

Edited May 6, 2019 by SilverStormm
Title update!

[Drogo]

Possible episode title while HBO gets their shit together: "Loose Lips and Sinking Ships"

[CeeBeeGee]

Well done, Dany. That is how you build loyalty.  (I was afraid she was gonna have him offed, the way the writing is going.)

Oh my God, the drinking game--BRIENNE AND JAIME SO CUTE

LOVED the conversation between Sansa and the Hound.

Gendry and Arya--I could see that coming a mile away. "That's not me." Beautiful character moment, beautifully acted. 

"This is not the game. This is only drinking." Hilarious!

Awww, Jaime's jealous...AAAAAAAAAUUUUGHHHH!!!!!!! YES YES YES!!!!! GO BRIENNE AND JAIME!!!! Fuck off, Cersei!!!

Finally we hear about Dorne. 

Jon siding with Dany over Sansa...I think Sansa has a point though. But I detest the writers pitting two strong women against each other.

NO, Jon!!!! Oh God word vomit.....WHEN will he keep his mouth shut?!

How the hell did Bronn get allowed into Winterfell?

Sansa, NO. Oh, for fuck's sake.

What?! Poor Ghost!!! You can't just send him north of the Wall! He's bonded to you! God, that is heartless. Come over here, Ghost, I'll take care of you and love you. Poor baby.

Did they say where Sam and Gilly are heading? Are they going to Hornhill?

Oh my God my hands are shaking...

I can't watch anymore oh my poor Rhaegal

[AimingforYoko]

If you thinks this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.

[AuxArx]

Nooo....Jon made his wolf sad.  Bad Jon.

Brienne finally gets some and then the guy leaves, probably to die..

I wonder if Kit Harington ever gets tired of the short jokes?

[sumiregusa]

I just can't anymore. I just simply can't.

[BitterApple]

Holy. Fucking. Shit.

Rhaegal dead. Missandei dead. Jon told Sansa and Arya the truth. Tyrion and Varys know the truth. Dany is about to go full potato next episode.

[scarynikki12]

On a positive note I’m glad to learn they do have Never Have I Ever in Westeros. 

[mojoween]

I am sure Lena Headey is a lovely person.

But holy Christ Cersei getting a crossbow bolt right through the eye would be so incredibly satisfying.

[Drogo]

No no no no no no no no no no. 

[BitterApple]

And can I say, Goddamn you, Jaime, for hurting our sweet Brienne. 

When Missandei said "Dracarys" before she was executed, was that her pledging her final loyalty to Dany, or telling Dany to burn the city to the ground?

Edited May 6, 2019 by BitterApple

[SallyAlbright]

I never thought I'd be so disappointed by this show. The descent into cartoonish "Mad Queen" territory for Daenerys does not really feel earned, nor do I buy into the idea that Jon wouldn't want revenge under the same circumstances. This idea that she is too strong for him to rule together but that somehow makes him the better leader seems a little confusing and the whole thing reeks of "Telling" not "Showing" for me. 

So sad for Brienne. Devastated over Missandei - Nathalie Emmanuel managed to make her into such a beloved character with relatively little screentime over the years. I really look forward to seeing her in other projects. 

Maybe the only happy thing tonight - GHOST LIVES!

[Popples]

RIP 

[WatchrTina]

At this point the line of people who want to murder Cersie is getting REALY long, but right at this moment I hope Grey Worm gets to do the honors.

Edited May 6, 2019 by WatchrTina

[Leroux]

NOOOOOO!!!!! MIssandei !!!!!!!!

I want Cersei to die as painfully as possible. 

[AimingforYoko]

1 minute ago, BitterApple said:

Jon told Sansa and Arya the truth. Tyrion and Varys know the truth. Dany is about to go full potato next episode.

Technically, Bran did. And then they cheated us of the reaction shot.

Varys had a great quote, "If eight people know, it's no longer a secret, it's information."

[Spartan Girl]

RIP Missandei. You and Grey Worm deserved so much better.

I refuse to diss Dany when she was right all along about how Sansa the North would react if they knew about Jon. And all this to shoehorn a Mad Queen storyline when Cersei is is the absolute WORST?

It's time to listen to Olenna: be the dragon.

[Leroux]

Euron, I know you are stupid but please do some simple math. 

He had to know that there is no way this baby is his.

He has to know that there is no way Tyrion has heard about it already.  

[ShellsandCheese]

So who set Dany up? How did Euron know exactly when they’d be headed back to Dragonstone? 

Also, tonight’s episode totally proved that Dany is smart - she knew exactly what would happen when Jon told the Starks about his heritage. Dany deserves better, but strong women must be broken. 

Edited May 6, 2019 by ShellsandCheese

[sistermagpie]

3 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

On a positive note I’m glad to learn they do have Never Have I Ever in Westeros. 

Of course since it didn't exist Tyrion had to invent it.

[CeeBeeGee]

1 minute ago, SallyAlbright said:

The descent into cartoonish "Mad Queen" territory for Daenerys does not really feel earned, nor do I buy into the idea that Jon wouldn't want revenge under the same circumstances. This idea that she is too strong for him to rule together but that somehow makes him the better leader seems a little confusing and the whole thing reeks of "Telling" not "Showing" for me

Totally agree. I detested Varys's reasoning and I dislike what they're forcing Dany into, just to amp up the tension. I love Sansa but she acted spectacularly stupidly in this episode--it doesn't make sense, it's just there to create unearned conflict.

[Lemuria]

4 minutes ago, CeeBeeGee said:

NO, Jon!!!! Oh God word vomit.....WHEN will he keep his mouth shut?!

And then he would have gotten reamed out by Sansa and Arya fans for not being forthright with this family.  

The real mistake is still thinking that he can trust Sansa (because Arya seems to have kept silent).

[Scarlett45]

Just now, AimingforYoko said:

Technically, Bran did. And then they cheated us of the reaction shot.

Varys had a great quote, "If eight people know, it's no longer a secret, it's information."

I 100% understand why Jon wanted his sisters to know (yes I consider them his sisters because they were raised as such). Just fucking MARRY Jon & Dany and solve this problem!!! If Sansa doesn’t want to marry their second child can inherit Winterfell. It’s not that complicated. 

My heart was BREAKING for Brienne. Breaking. Do you think Jaime and Tyrion will see each other again?

[kellog010]

Dany being judged and convicted anyway might as well fuck shit up. Jon has a penis so he should rule is bullshit. 

[Scarlett45]

1 minute ago, ShellsandCheese said:

So who set Dany up? How did Euron know exactly when they’d be headed back to Dragonstone?

Yes!! I said this in the live thread!

[Glaze Crazy]

I'm ready to burn KL down just to get rid of the evil that in Cersci. RIP Missandei, you deserved your retirement to the beaches of Naath.

Edited May 6, 2019 by Glaze Crazy

[Eyes High]

Tyrion and Sansa are going to be a thing. Sansa was jealous when Dany complimented Tyrion’s cleverness. We got a reminder this episode that Tyrion hasn’t been with a woman in years (after a previous comment to Jaime about having given up whoremongering). For the first time in quite a while, they addressed each other by their names. And Sansa tattled to Tyrion something like five minutes after she promised Jon she’d never tell a soul.

Jaime/Brienne was the logical conclusion of that relationship. Devastating but accurate.

Missandei’s last word being “Dracarys” was badass.

Good episode for Tyrion, finally.

[bluvelvet]

I don't even know what to think right now..woah!!

But Kings Landing is going to burn based on the look of Dany's face..

Shocked at Rhaegal's death!!

Could have used a better goodbye scene between Ghost and Jon

Also note that Dany said "what is mine" when talking to Jon..

[Leroux]

Jaime, I take away every kind word I said about you.

You are a POS to make my girl Brienne plead and beg. Once a dog always a dog. 

[tennisgurl]

The line of people that want to murder Cersei at this point probably could wind its way around the planet several times...and I bet every one of them has a good reason. First in the line is, of course me. 

This lady needs to DIE. 

[Traveller519]

Anyone refering to Arya as a Mary-Sue needs to take a long hard look at Euron Greyjoy... I wouldn't be surprised if that is somehow actually his child in Cersei's Womb

[Lemuria]

2 minutes ago, AimingforYoko said:

Technically, Bran did. And then they cheated us of the reaction shot.

Varys had a great quote, "If eight people know, it's no longer a secret, it's information."

Well, you know what they say:  "Three people can keep a secret, if two of them are dead."

And I thought the same thing:  You're cutting away now?  You didn't think your viewers wanted to see Sansa's and Arya's reaction to the news?  Really?  

[seawind]

I am so profoundly disappointed, I can't even process what I'm feeling right now. I can't even appreciate anything that happened in the early part of the episode, because everything that happened the second the ambush began was ridiculous. Dany would never risk flying her dragons so close until they made sure the coast was clear. Not after everything that's happened. This was just the show forcing things in order to kill another dragon and then Missandei, two more things Dany loves, so that we could get the "mad queen Dany." I can't even be sad about Rhaegal and Missandei, because THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE DIED. (I'm not even going to get into the absolute absurdity of those weapons working the way they were shown.)

Show, you did something far, far worse than anything you may have done in The Long Night. You broke my heart. 😞

Edited May 6, 2019 by seawind
Edited because I was so distracted by the absurdity of the plot that I mistook Dragonstone for King's Landing.

[Neurochick]

Does Euron really think Cersei’s baby is his?  If so, he’s too dumb to live.

OMG Missandei...that was brutal.  Die Cersei, Die.  Hopefully Jamie will do the honor.

[bmoore4026]

Missandei...

Tyrion, when will you fucking get it?

[Smad]

Why do D&D hate women so freaking much? This episode was awful to pretty much every female character except Gilly and Cersei. WTF is happening?

Brienne basically got a pity fuck and then dropped like a hot potato and betrayed. Missandei, only woman of color, gets fridged for the nonsense that will be Dany's villain arc while advocating to kill everyone. The Stark girls reaction to the parentage reveal and Sansa snitching to Tyrion. Sansa being glad for being raped and brutalized to become strong.

Well I'm glad that D&D listened to all the complaints about 'women on top' and doing their best to fix the issue. Very much appreciated. /s

Edited May 6, 2019 by Smad

[AuxArx]

Poor Tormund...although he seemed to rebound pretty quickly.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

Dany HAS TO torch Kings Landing. Collateral be damned. I am that pissed

The blood of every life lost is on Cercei and Cercei alone. I dare anyone who says otherwise 

[Growsonwalls]

Omg. I'm not sure I have the intestinal fortitude to finish out this series.

The beginning of the episode had so many wonderful moments that I knew something horrible was going to happen.

But the good moments:

1) Jaime and Brienne finally consummate their relationship in a post-Armageddon keg party! Woohoo!

2) Gendry asked Arya to be his lady and she gently turned him down.

3) We see Sansa and Hound talking.

4) Tyrion and Jaime having a post-sex debrief was too cute. So like what close brothers in real life would actually do.

5) Yay Ghost is still there!

6) And Gilly's knocked up! I'm sure the baby will be adorable and cherubic.

7) "Vomiting is not celebrating." Tormund: "Yes it is." Drunk Tormund looking for a booty call might have been the funniest thing I've seen on GoT since drunk Tormund told everyone about suckling giant milk.

NOW TO THE BAD STUFF:

1) Oh Jon. Now everyone knows the secret. I understand why he told his family, but still ...

2) On the other hand, oh Dany. She doesn't get it that once someone knows something like what Jon knows, it "doesn't matter" what he wants. You cannot put the genie back in the bottle. You cannot expect someone to just keep having aunt-nephew sex and keep that sort of thing a secret.

3) I know this Sansa v. Dany thing is eating the internet alive, but considering how piss poor the plan to take King's Landing was, Sansa's right. Jon probably is better. Dany's plan was awful from start to finish.

4) Jon not saying goodbye to Ghost? Unforgivable.

5) Tyrion and Varys NO ... Don't be traitors. But you know in their mind, they've already turned against Dany.

6) Jaime riding off on his kamikaze mission to kill Cersei and leaving behind Brienne broke my heart.

7) Missandei 😞 So horrible that Greyworm and Dany had to see her die.

😎 Rhaegal 😞 Down to one dragon.

9) And dammit, Cersei is awful, but as we've seen this episode, being humane means awful things happen to you. 

10) I just can't think about next episode. I feel like Tyrion, Jaime, Dany and/or Jon are goners.

[Yodabeesh]

Worst. Kept. Secret. Ever.

[Smad]

GET MARRIED ALREADY.

asdfghjklkjhgfds

Edited May 6, 2019 by Smad

[seawind]

3 minutes ago, CeeBeeGee said:

Totally agree. I detested Varys's reasoning and I dislike what they're forcing Dany into, just to amp up the tension. I love Sansa but she acted spectacularly stupidly in this episode--it doesn't make sense, it's just there to create unearned conflict.

100%. The double Ds totally forced this, and it sucks big time. I'm so intensely disappointed right now I have a huge pit in my stomach. They just blew it. Completely. 😞

[dbell1]

Where to begin? I don't think Jaime believes he deserves happiness. He's tormented, tortured by years of bad choices, and just so ready to walk away from the best woman for him.

Amazing acting by Gwendolyn. Brienne has always broken my heart.

Jon, you gave away Ghost. You're an idiot. Leaving him at Winterfell would have been kinder.

I knew Arya would turn down Lord Gendry. Maybe those two would have had a chance without a war.

Missandre was a dead woman from the time they fished her out of the water. Way to go out like a loyal badass.

Poor Raeghal, that was nasty.

[bluvelvet]

Euron must know the kid isn't his

I think Jaime is going back to kill Cersei and die himself, not to side with her. 

Yeah send Ghost up North, at least he will live.

2 Dragons down..they should have waited and planned better

yeah and totally feel cheated from the reaction to Jon's parentage.

Edited May 7, 2019 by bluvelvet

[Lillith]

Poor Brienne, but I'm glad both she and Jaime got to be with someone who loved them. I think he's off on an atonement suicide mission. He doesn't feel he deserves better. 

Torumund seemed to get over Brienne fast after he got some serving girl booty.

Dany has shown hints of Mad Queen and tyrant but this descent seems a bit rushed at this point. 

At least Varys was up front with her, but we know he's gonna die soon.

I'm torn on Sansa. Did she say something out of genuine concern that Dany is not fit (whether that's true or not) or out of spite because she dislikes her? 

Still no clue what the hell Brann's doing. 

And at least we truly know Bronn is a sellsword still, through and through. The Lannister brothers only lived because he's betting on Dany he has no affection toward either of them. 

Poor Missandei. But we had to know either her or Grey Worm was going to get it after making retirement plans. 

Guess they were busy making anti dragon ballistics in KL while the North was preparing to fight the undead. 

[WatchrTina]

I think the Bronn story makes no sense.  How did he get to Winterfell that fast?  And how did he gain admission to Winterfell and into the presence of Jamie & Tyrion?  I guess I can fan-wank that security at Winterfell is shot all to hell right now what with all the strangers and all the dead but Bronn was apparently walking around Winterfell with a loaded cross-bow asking for directions to the Hand of the Queen and Jamie and people just sent him on his way.  Damn, the people fo Winterfell really DO hate those two.

[Stardancer Supreme]

11 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

And can I say, Goddamn you, Jaime, for hurting our sweet Brienne. 

When Missandei said "Dracarys" before she was executed, was that her pledging her final loyalty to Dany, or telling Dany to burn the city to the ground?

She was telling Daenarys to burn that shit to the ground. Sigh. Poor Grey Worm.  

[JennyMominFL]

Dany  and Cersei acting just like I knew they would. Neither one deserves the throne

[Leroux]

What is perplexing about this rightful heir to the IT to me is that not for one second did it cross Daenerys mind the idea of asking Jon to rule with her, to make him understand that they will be stronger together as co-rulers. A marriage of equals would be the best but that is obviously not what she wants, she wants him to not ever say a word and act just like her consort. 

Why? 

Why she is so hell-bent on being the only ruler? Jon definitely will let her do all the ruling and only make her consider her most drastic decisions. I am sure she loves him and wants to marry him but she doesn't want to share power with him? 

She should have never asked him to keep his identity a secret just so she can claim the throne alone. That was awfully selfish. 

[mikal768]

6 minutes ago, seawind said:

I am so profoundly disappointed in the show, I can't even process what I'm feeling right now. Everything that happened the second after Dany flew the dragons DIRECTLY OVER KING'S LANDING IN BROAD DAYLIGHT WHEN THEY KNOW THAT CERSEI HAS WEAPONS THAT FUCKING KILL DRAGONS and everything that happened AFTER THEY SAILED RIGHT UP TO KING'S LANDING IN BROAD DAYLIGHT was a complete waste. There is absolutely NO WAY IN HELL, NOT IN ANY UNIVERSE, that that would have been something that Dany or Tyrion or any of them would have done. This was just the show forcing things in order to kill another dragon and then Missandei, two more things Dany loves, so that we could get the "mad queen Dany." I can't even be said about Rhaegal and Missandei, because THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE DIED BECAUSE THE WAY THEY CAME UPON THE CAPITAL WAS ASININE.

Show, you did something far, far worse than anything you may have done in The Long Night. You broke my heart. 😞

Small FYI the ambush happened off dragonstone not at Kings landing