S08.E03: The Long Night

[spaceghostess]

2 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

Some dead, came through a wall or some tombs.

I was so caught up, I actually forgot about the "dead rising from the crypts" spec and assumed they were wights. Will have to go back and watch that scene again.

[Stardancer Supreme]

1 hour ago, CherryMalotte said:

Wait - didn't Arya give Sansa the Valerian steel blade before she went into the crypt?  If she did she was using a dragonglass blade on the NK then.   

Arya gave Sansa a dragonglass dagger. She used the valerian steel on the Night King.

[AshleyN]

I haven't been so stressed out watching television since "Ozymandias." The opening in particular was some of the most tense shit I've ever seen.

I literally didn't get until it was pointed out to me that Beric's "purpose" was to save Arya's life lol.

Everyone's complaining about how dark it was, but I didn't have any trouble seeing things? I did have the lights really dim though.

1 hour ago, anamika said:

Sansa - "I am not abandoning my people!"

The dead attack. She hides behind a crypt while her people are getting slaughtered, lol! The Warrior of Winterfell right there!

Eh, I don't think she needs to be a warrior to be brave or a good leader. That being said, I mentioned after the first episode that a lot of Sansa's purported growth feels like regression to me, and I couldn't help but compare her behavior here to the Battle of the Blackwater, where she took charge of the people in the holdfast when Cersei couldn't be bothered, and found ways to use her skills as a "lady" to offer comfort and calm. It bothers me that these writers seem to equate her becoming "strong" with stripping her of her feminine qualities, many of which helped her survive up to this point.

Edited April 29, 2019 by AshleyN

[Stardancer Supreme]

22 hours ago, HeySandyStrange said:

For myself anyway, I thought the Night's King and his Undead Army were going to be the endgame, as far as big bad that the whole of Westeros would have to try to defeat. And considering the NK wasn't taken out by the dragon fire, the most destructive force known, it is a bit shocking that a Valyrian steal knife took him out like nothing. He seemed built up to be much more powerful then the average White Walker. I just feel like something was missing, like how the hell did Arya make it to the tree in time, that I needed for this to make more sense.

The Night King was created by the Children of the Forest shoving dragon glass into his heart.  He was too powerful for dragonfire to take him out, so Valyrian steel was pretty much the only option. It was not too easy to take him out. That was a Hail Mary!  

Edited April 30, 2019 by Stardancer Supreme

[rmontro]

11 minutes ago, spaceghostess said:

I was so caught up, I actually forgot about the "dead rising from the crypts" spec and assumed they were wights. Will have to go back and watch that scene again.

I will too, but I don't think the old dead came back to life.  Otherwise shouldn't there have been a scene with Eddard Stark's bones trying to do something?  I didn't see any skeletons walking around, the wights all seemed pretty fleshy.

[Vella]

3 minutes ago, AshleyN said:

Eh, I don't think she needs to be a warrior to be brave or a good leader. That being said, I mentioned after the first episode that a lot of Sansa's purported "growth" feels like regression to me, and I couldn't help but compare her behavior here to the Battle of the Blackwater, where she took charge of the people in the holdfast when Cersei couldn't be bothered, and found ways to use her skills as a "lady" to offer comfort and calm. It bothers me that these writers seem to equate her becoming "strong" with stripping her of her feminine qualities, many of which helped her survive up to this point.

Yes, that felt so frustrating. Sansa did NOTHING to comfort or guide or anything for the people in the crypt. Those are HER people and she can't bring herself to lead them in any way and when the dead attacked, she ran and hid. So did Tyrion. Varys did more simply by taking a child's hand in comfort. It was so aggravating to watch her be little more than a coward in the face of children screaming for their lives.  Not because she needs to fight like Arya but because she needs to do SOMETHING.

[anamika]

9 minutes ago, AshleyN said:

Eh, I don't think she needs to be a warrior to be brave or a good leader.

I was mocking Sansa's - 'I am not abandoning my people' comment when Arya asked her to go down to the crypts. What was she expecting to do standing there on the battlements when the dead over ran WF? 

[Miles]

Okay who was the dumbass who thought it was a good idea to meet an army of zombies on an open field? Probably the same dude who didn't think about burning the bodies in the crypts of winterfell, before the guy who can raise the dead shows up.

I think it's weird that dragonfire can't kill the Knight King, but simple valyrian steel can. Shouldn't both be about on the some powerlevel? Valyrian steel having the magic of dragonfire imbued in it, I mean. I would say, I'm looking foreward to see how the books resolve this, but we all know, that is never going to happen.

Back to the battle.  So we can all agree that the right strategy would have been to stay in the castle and defend it, right? And maybe have some oil or tar you can pour down the walls and ignite while the zombies were scaling it, yes? Even if you didn't. If you had your full army, the zombies would have been relatively easy pickings, coming up the wall. The two dragons could have lasered some off in places where it got hary.

A potential problem could have been that the army of the dead would have just ignored winterfell. But we already established, that the Knight King has a hardon for Bran and wouldn't pass up an opportunity to kill him. So what gives?

[GrailKing]

Next week looks like they bury the dead and Sansa is left at Winterfell to rebuild.

While Jon and others leave for Cersei.

I don't see her or Arya at the feast.

She doesn't look " bitchy " concern maybe staying at WF ?

[MrWhyt]

1 hour ago, nikma said:

I think this is great.

yes, just because there is a prophecy doesn't mean it is true. God damm this was a tense episode, though far less named characters died than I expected. 

[GrailKing]

1 minute ago, anamika said:

I was mocking Sansa's - 'I am not abandoning my people' comment when Arya asked her to go down to the crypts. What was she expecting to do standing there on the battlements when the dead over ran WF? 

Everyone has fear, look at Sam.

But I thought they have her and Tyrion lead people out , but they cut it as the dead dropped dead for good.

[yellowfred]

Okay, so I guess I'm in the minority, but I went into this episode fully expecting the whole Night King and Army of the Dead stuff to be dealt with by the end of the episode.  Like, I get that the White Walkers were a huge threat, and one that's been building in power since the beginning of the series, but, as an enemy, they're also just not that interesting.  For a couple seasons now, the refrain has been "nothing matters if we don't defeat the White Walkers," which, while true, doesn't make for a particularly nuanced story.  I'm not saying we're gonna get that with the fight for the Iron Throne, but there's at least a lot more potential for it. 

I do feel like the scenes in the crypts had a lot of wasted potential.  I think the basic premise of the biggest battle in history happening right above your head while you can't do anything is an interesting one.  I think back to the scenes with Cersei and Sansa in the holdfast during Blackwater, which, in my opinion, were some of the best scenes in that episode.  By comparison, the scenes in the crypts just felt underwhelming. 

As far as Arya being the one to kill the Night King, I thought it was perfect.  Like, as much as Jon was responsible for bringing these armies together, Arya's the one who's established herself as maybe the best fighter in Westeros, and the one most likely to be overlooked by the Night King until it was too late.

[anamika]

I am also damn glad that wight viserion ripped that stupid, heavy cloak off Jon while the dragons were fighting. Like, why was Jon fighting with that shit on? Where is the light armor that he wears to battle? Dany and her flashy winter coat. They did not look like they were dressed for battle.

Edited April 29, 2019 by anamika

[Minneapple]

23 minutes ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

Arya gave Sansa a dragonglass dagger. She used the valerian steel on the Night King.

In a bit of “circle of life” moment, it was the dagger that Bran gave Arya last season; the same dagger that was sent with an assassin by Littlefinger to kill Bran in season 1. So the dagger that almost ended Bran’s life wound up saving it.

Just now, yellowfred said:

I do feel like the scenes in the crypts had a lot of wasted potential.  I think the basic premise of the biggest battle in history happening right above your head while you can't do anything is an interesting one.  I think back to the scenes with Cersei and Sansa in the holdfast during Blackwater, which, in my opinion, were some of the best scenes in that episode.  By comparison, the scenes in the crypts just felt underwhelming. 

Yeah, I was not a fan of the crypt scenes and normally I like Sansa scenes. These seemed lazy and poorly done. You’d think they would at least give Peter Dinklage better material.

[FemmyV]

I'm still digesting this, mostly but some randoms:

Arya fucking Stark. I think many of us - or at least a handful, weren't at all taken by surprise, that she was the one to do the deed. We'd been spec'ing hard, ever since Bran gave her that dagger, that it would be the perfect way to get in close and dislodge that Dragon Glass. The exchange with Mel, about closing blue eyes confirmed it.

I did like the exchange between Sansa and Tyrion; I did ship them a little in S2, but for the past several seasons, it was more like a canoe and well, trying to ship Sansa with *anyone* but Jon was an invitation for grief in any forum. 'nuf said, there. I wouldn't speculate anything, at this point, but I still wouldn't mind it if something did happen.

It took them 4 tries to get the NK: Dany with fire, Jon wasn't able to get close, Theon got himself killed. It just wasn't one long protracted fight, is all.

And it was interesting, isn't it, that Jon wasn't the omnipotent hero of the episode? I liked that, it was a nice change to give everyone else the chance to shine.

Poor Lyanna M.  I was so hoping she would make it out alive. House Mormont is completely gone.

I'm not a big fan of the more violent stuff, and war scenes tend to bore me, but all this was simply beautiful and frightening, at the same time, to watch. One of the most beautiful night shoots AND war shoots in film history. As far as the darkness goes, I felt like that was the point: the NK wanted never ending night, and he was bringing it with him. I thought that was pretty brilliant, actually, showing us how hard it was for our heroes to fight him and fight the Long Night.

Arya. You're just so fucking badass.

[spaceghostess]

I don't know how to feel about Bran at the moment. If, as the show apparently wants us to believe, his scope for "helping" was so limited, then why was he all like, "The NK wants me. I'll act as a decoy!" last episode? His peacing out at the weirwood went exactly nowhere. Oh wait, he hitched a virtual ride on Wight!Viserion for like, three seconds. So helpful.

That right there and the wholesale slaughter of the Dothraki right out of the gate are the only two things I really didn't like.

Edited April 29, 2019 by spaceghostess
Punctuation

[Raachel2008]

50 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

I know it is from Star Trek. I just don't get how it applies here. Dany saved tons of lives including Jon's while he almost killed her several times. 

And Jon’s saved tons of lives, and they both almost killed themselves and each other because they couldn’t see.

[ShellsandCheese]

Just have to add that Theon was a total badass defending / protecting Bran.

And props to Dany for doing her best to fight alongside Jorah. Ditto for Grey Worm who was a total boss the entire episode. 

Edited April 29, 2019 by ShellsandCheese

[SimoneS]

I really liked that Dany picked up a sword to help Jorah. She took out a few wights who were coming for his back. Jorah is a real loss. After losing Ser Barristan and leaving Daario behind, Jorah was one of the two remaining good loyal fighters at her side. He looked up at Drogon and followed the sound to make sure that she was protected. Now Dany only has Grey Worm.

Edited April 29, 2019 by SimoneS

[AshleyN]

25 minutes ago, spaceghostess said:

I don't know how to feel about Bran at the moment. If, as the show apparently wants us to believe, his scope for "helping" was so limited, then why was he all like, "The NK wants me. I'll act as a decoy!" last episode? His peacing out at the weirwood went exactly nowhere. Oh wait, he hitched a virtual ride on Wight!Viserion for like, three seconds. So helpful.

Bran being almost completely useless in the fight against the White Walkers is so weird to me, and makes his entire arc seem pretty pointless in retrospect (which, as someone who actually really likes the fantasy elements of the series, is disappointing). 

I assumed he would give them something crucial in terms of how to defeat the Walkers but his contribution basically amounted to...giving Arya the dagger? And sitting there as bait. At the very least they could have had him do some powerful warging (I always wanted to see him warg a dragon).

But really, I've always gotten the sense that D&D were significantly less interested in the White Walker storyline (and the North in general really) than the Kings Landing politicking and this episode, as much as I enjoyed it, doesn't really dissuade me from that.

Edited April 29, 2019 by AshleyN

[ShellsandCheese]

HBOGO is now referring to this episode title as “The Long Night”. 

[MrWhyt]

1 hour ago, Cammi said:

I always figured Cersi would die in this last childbirth. After all, her baby is technically her “little brother” no? 

no. It would be her daughter-niece or son-nephew (assuming jamie is the father)

[WatchrTina]

I thought it was so amazing I turned around and watched the whole thing a second time.  On second viewing I learned two things:

1. The picture on my iMac is better than on my flat-screen TV for watching night scenes.  Add my Bose noise-cancelling headphones to the mix you've got yourself a real theater experience.
2. Something went wrong with my TV upon first viewing and the episode SKIPPED about 10 minutes of the battle.  Specifically it skipped the Night King raising the dead, including them breaking out of their tombs in the crypt which I PREDICTED last week.  So when it happened on my second viewing I was SO confused.  Also terrified.

That was amazing.  Do you realize how little dialog there was?  I think there were 10 lines, tops.  What an action-packed episode!

I was fairly sure someone was going to kill the Night King and that that was how the battle would end, but I didn't predict Arya so that came as a delightful surprise.

[Glade]

I loved that effect at the beginning when Mellisandre lit the Dothraki's weapons on fire and turned them into glowing dots in the distance. Otherwise, there was a lot of helms deep here. I felt frustrated that John and Dany never exchanged any words when they were up in the air fighting the ice dragon, not even 'what the fuck?' Did they already know the dead dragon had revived? Those scenes could have been shortened.

Why were those zombies so interested in the library with Arya? Can they read? I'm not sure a lot of the quiet scenes really worked here, not sure if it was totally cohesive in the end. I'm really sad about poor Theon, but I was moved by Bran's final words to him, and I suppose it's for the best he couldn't rise as a white walker. Last episode made me fantasize about him marrying Sansa and being happy, though. I love Theon so much, Rip my brother!

I'm thrilled that Arya killed the Night King, who was too afraid to fight John. I was really worried for Bran. It is very LOTR, though, when Eowyn killed the Witch King. I'll be pissed off now if Arya/Gendry don't inherit the throne. And it leaves me feeling confused, wondering if it's really over. Certainly we'll get some more lore from Bran next week.

Mellisandre's death felt anti-climactic, couldn't she have sacrificed herself to save Theon or Jorah? I call dibs on her necklace if Davos isn't going to pick it up (in which case I guess we'd get on-screen text next episode: "The role of Davos Seaworth will now be played by Henry Cavill"). A sad night for the Mormounts, are there any left?

I felt more genuine fear for the animals. Are both of the dragons still alive? And what the fuck happened to Ghost? It pissed me off to see him charging into battle at the beginning of the episode without John, and not even wearing any special armor, dragonglass crown to head-butt zombies with, etc. He should have been down in the crypts, after Summer we know the direwolves can't really beat white walkers. Nymeria didn't show up with her pride either…especailly if Ghost is dead she better show up later.

[mmal]

I really hope that D&D didn't just flush the whole "prince/princess that was promised" storyline right down the toilet.

I'm hanging on to the fact that Ned was never king, so Arya can't be a princess. Of course, D&D might just make up something to explain it away.

[voiceover]

1 hour ago, anamika said:

 Like, why was Jon fighting with that shit on? 

Sooo...I read this as,

"...why was Jon fighting with that shirt on?"

-- and I was all, Hell yeah!

Oops.

[Miles]

2 hours ago, Vella said:

And then it just kind of ends. Arya comes screaming out of the night, mmmkay, and then stab and done.

I have to say, I really didn't like that. I would have loved if we had seen the Night King looking at Bran, him suddenly shattering and revealing that Arya was standing behind him, with the dagger in her hand. That would have shown off her increadible stealthing ability. Jumping at him screaming seems so out of character for her.

[Happy Harpy]

Alfie Allen and Emilia Clarke just killed me. I sobbed like a baby in spite of watching after being spoiled, as always. Jorah honorable and knightly until the end, Theon's face when Bran called him a good man (damn, I have something in my eye again) Lyanna Mormont going down at an Olenna level of awesome...

What had me cheer the most? Arya defending Davos like a fucking badass. He looked so impressed. Please give me a Team Stormlands with Arya/Gendry/Davos/Brienne, thank you.

I had a feeling that the Lord of Light people would have a connection with Arya, but I sure didn't expect this one.

Yes, it's anticlimatic that the threat over 7 years + was dealt with in one episode; and didn't invade all of Westeros or almost. OTOH, it's extremely ballsy and probably the most subversive option the show could have chosen, imo. There were so many hints in S7 of how Arya was going to kill the NK, in hindsight. Bran giving her the dagger, the left-right hand trick during her fight with Brienne, Beric's purpose speech. The "blue eyes" back in S3, too. I wonder if I'll find others.

It isn't new that the NK brings the storm, so using it to impede the dragons even for Plot was OK with me. It didn't come out of nowhere either.

I liked that every fighter did they part in the battle. Everyone was useful, in their own way and within their own capacities, everyone took one for the team, everyone had a moment to shine. It might not have been "in your face", but Jon and Daenerys annihilated a shitload of wights and the defense of WF wouldn't have stood without their intervention; same when fighting Viserion or the NK, they earned time that was crucial for everyone's survival. Arya's biggest strength is stealth, the way she killed the NK was right in her alley (reminiscent of Lyanna Mormont with the giant half an hour before, and weirdly I didn't see the same objections...). The Hound floundered but saved Arya with Beric -LOL at the Mary Sue thing, she is clearly not invincible. Greyworm stepping it and the Unsullied protecting Melisandre to light the trenches. Jorah, Jaime, Pod, Brienne, Tormund, Gendry got the brunt of the assault and sustained it vs the main body of the AOTD. It was teamwork, and they can all be proud of themselves...I know I am.

Well, everyone but Sam. Boo. Talk about biting more than you can chew. Too bad that Edd had to bite it, period, because of that craven moron. The more I think of it, the more pissed off I get. I don't think there's anyone dead in the alliance whom I wouldn't exchange for Sam right now, including Melisandre. He better not be a whinging little shit after this battle.

I'm glad that no one I liked and who was in the crypt was killed off, since I was very afraid for Missandei in particular, but the red-shirt trope was strong in that part of WF. Missandei was fierce and delivered a well-deserved smackdown, so much for her detaching from her queen. Tyrion, like in the previous episode, was touching.

Going from the insane noisy action outside to the horror movie-like silent eeriness inside, with Arya, was fabulously done. Like in 7x06, though, at times one couldn't see who was doing what; not even because it was too dark, more because of the smoke. I guess it was on purpose, to convey the confusion?

Also, Gendry made it yaaaas! Sex doesn't kill, trope averted! Well, it seems to be love anyway...

Edited April 29, 2019 by Happy Harpy

[tangerine95]

My biggest problem with the episode was that it was so dark,I literally couldn't see until I turned up the brightness on my TV lol.

I thought it was great,the battle scene were amazing and terrifying.You could really feel the desperation and how hopeless it seemed most of the time.

I was expecting more deaths tho.The ones that died were pretty emotional.Jorah dying in Dany's arms while Drogon curled up around her made me cry.Theon desperately trying to protect Bran and being told that he's a good man.Never thought I'd care about Theon so much but that was an earned redemption for sure.I really wasn't expecting Lyanna to die and tho she died a badass I still think that was pointless and she should have been in the crypts.I don't understand why Sam was on the battlefield,he's a bad fighter and he spent most of the battle crying and almost getting killed.He also should have been in the crypt and maybe poor Edd wouldn't have been focused on protecting him.

Loved all the stuff with the dragons,I knew they would make them somehow unable to be at full strength tho.The storm was a good way to do that.We didn't get much of the Dance of Dragons with undead Viserion but the stuff we got was stunning imo.When Drogon was attacked by all those wights I really thought that was it for him.

Sansa was kind of a mess this episode.I genuinely can't find excuses for her seeing the army of the dead,seeing Dany's people dying to save them and then still going into the crypts and complaining about Dany with so much disdain.She wasn't even doing her own job,even 15 year old Sansa knew to comfort the women and children during a battle but she doesn't now.

Jon had less to do than I expected but I was okay with it and him not being the one to kill the NK didn't bother me.He fought bravely like usual and it was really amazing to see two dragon riders in battle.Dany was a total badass,I love that she fought both on the ground and in the air.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

2 hours ago, SeanC said:

The main characters' plot armour has only shone brighter and brighter the further we've gone into D&D's own material, and it was gleaming like Valyrian steel this week.  The high point being when the zombies get lose in the crypts and seemingly kill everyone but all the named characters who are all huddling together in a corner.

And I have no problem with that.

These characters have been through hell and back. Death is only one form of punishment. 

They all deserve to survive and live a normal life like they deserve 

[SimoneS]

9 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

Well, everyone but Sam. Boo. Talk about biting more than you can chew. Too bad that Edd had to bite it, period, because of that craven moron. The more I think of it, the more pissed off I get. I don't think there's anyone dead in the alliance whom I wouldn't exchange for Sam right now, including Melisandre. He better not be a whinging little shit after this battle.

Seriously. WTF was that? I will never look at Sam the same again. That wasn't courage that was stupidity to the umpth degree. Sam endangered people's lives staying on the battlefield. If he had gone into the crypts, he might have been able to save those red shirt women from the awoken dead. Instead he gets Edd killed, he might have killed a few wights but he basically laid there crying while everyone kept fighting for their lives. I was glad that Jon saw him and just kept going or he might have died also.

[voiceover]

If I was back in high school now, ready to graduate, and there were still such things as actual book yearbooks, I would totally sign every one with the following:

"Stick them with the pointy end."

[bubble sparkly]

1 minute ago, SimoneS said:

Seriously. WTF was that? I will never look at Sam the same again.

I know right!  After this episode I actually had the thought that horrible Randyl Tarly was right about his cowardly son all along.  If Sam was just going to piss his pants and cry, he should have done it in the crypts rather than endanger the other people around him who were trying their damnedest to fight.

[FozzyBear]

2 hours ago, GrailKing said:

Everyone has fear, look at Sam.

But I thought they have her and Tyrion lead people out , but they cut it as the dead dropped dead for good.

I agree. That scene felt really poorly edited. Like Sansa and Tyrion agreed to do something that would probably get them killed, then we cut to some people hiding in the corner, then the NK dies and the episode is over. I think they were implying that Sansa and Tyrion would use her knife to fight them off as long as they could, but it really wasn’t clear and I think something got left out that would make the crypt scene make more sense.

[loki567]

Obligatory, "Please God, George, finish the books before I/you die." 

This episode felt like GoT at it's most frustrating to me. I'm suppose to be in awe of the spectacle but after about 20 minutes, I don't care. It's all CGI and action and those can get boring after awhile.

I care about story and characters and these big battles episodes always neglect those. Particularly there feels like there's a gigantic amount of the Night's King/Bran story we're missing. I don't know if GRRM decided to keep that for the books (which to be fair would be kind of shitty thing for him to do) but the end of this story has to have more than what we saw tonight, right? 

For the last time, this episode hammered home to me that I really wish someone else besides D&D had adapted this series. These guys are borderline passable writers adapting one of the greatest series in literary history and they're giving us borderline passable results. 

Much preferred the first two episodes, which were written by two people. In fact, I'd go as far as to say I wish Cogman had been in charge. 

[RobertDeSneero]

I could tell Arya was going to kill the NK because of the storytelling.  They kept checking in on every character except Arya after she said "Not today".  She was clearly being saved as a surprise to save someone.  I think it effective pacing that probably drew a lot of watchers into the stories of other characters so they weren't wondering where she was because they assumed she was barricaded in a room with no way out.  They had the Theon attack which reminded me of Spike at the end of Buffy season 6 and they left him moving on the ground  so that the audience could wonder if he might make a last gasp attack on the Night King from behind.  There was always the possibility that Bran had a trick prepared but, no, it was going to be Arya.

They foreshadowed it with Mellisandre telling her that Beric had a purpose that he fulfilled, but let's not forget that after Beric fulfilled that purpose, he died.  If Arya has fulfilled her purpose, will the universe feel free to discard her as soon as the next episode?  I think we were supposed to be reminded of Lyanna vs. the giant and be worried that Arya was going to kill the Night King with her dying blow.

People have brought up comparisons to Tolkien.  That was a massive war that turned out be a more of a distraction so that the real task.  The war keeps Sauron engaged so that Frodo can sneak into Mordor.  The battle draws the Night King out into a situation where he can be attacked. 

The main reason that Peter Jackson's trilogy wasn't a complete triumph for me was the excising of the Scouring of the Shire.  We get that now with the resumption of the fight for the Iron Throne.  While post-war was messy for the hobbits, it is less messy for everyone else in the book.  I think ASOIAF is meant to show the aftermath for everyone.

[GrailKing]

Re watching at this moment, when the dead came out of one of the crypts, it looked like Maester Lewin.

They all start to flee Tyrion yelling come, on, come on.

Dany stayed way too long on the ground, when Jon ran for Bran.

[Solace247]

4 hours ago, maystone said:

I don't really understand why some posters feel that it was easy to kill the NK. Thousands of people died in that battle. Winterfell was destroyed. The plan to destroy him with dragon fire failed. There was nothing easy about trying to kill him. He was always going to be taken out by either dragon fire, dragon glass, or Valyrian steel. And it was one of those that finally did kill him. I'm thrilled that it was Arya who did it, too.

Whilst there are definitely people disappointed that Jon didn’t finish off the NK, I think some are just disappointed in how it was done. I have no problem with the idea itself. However,  the scene with Arya in the library established that blood dripping on stone was evidently louder than scuffling around, killing wights, and closing oaken doors. Yet in the godswood, Bran is surrounded by a circle of wights, all the NK’s lieutenants, and the NK himself, and Arya somehow navigated the snow-laden ground and said obstacles in order to leap out of the night and land the single, critical blow. It’s a cool visual, but somewhat undermined by it’s construction. In this case, I suppose we’re to think !ASSASSIN!... end scene.

[paramitch]

I thought this was a gorgeous episode, and I was really happy with pretty much all of it. Those we lost went bravely and with redemption, and those who survived (far more than I expected) were courageous and loyal beyond measure (well almost all, *cough*Sam*cough).

I loved the outcome we got here, and thought Arya as destroyer of the NK was both absolutely telegraphed for years now (in the best way), and shone a spotlight on all the women in the episode, who were pretty much amazing. From Dany fighting dragonback with Jon (and then even more bravely on foot with Jorah) to Brienne (WHO LIVES! YES!), to little Lyanna (RIP), to Sansa quietly preparing for death in a lovely moment with Tyrion... the women were amazing here.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned, and that I loved here, was the way it showed how little human moments can lead to mythical greatness. Each step in the chain contributed to the victory and everyone mattered in some way:

1. Bran gives Arya the dagger
2. The dragons, Melisandre, Grey Worm, Dothraki, and ground troops held off several waves and enabled a surprising number to get into position for the endgame (and to survive the night at all)
3. Jon distracts the NK (to the extent that by the time NK enters the clearing, he's assumed victory is his because Jon is elsewhere)
4. Arya saves the Hound
5. The Hound saves Arya
6. Beric saves Arya and the Hound
7. Theon delays the NK
8. Arya kills the NK with Bran's dagger

So the Hound saved the world. Melisandre saved the world (although I still will not forgive her for Shireen). Theon saved the world. Jon saved the world; Beric saved the world. And Arya saved the world. But she wouldn't have without them. And Jorah may have saved Westeros (by saving Dany), etc. I loved that. And it was intriguing that Melisandre's "fire" may have drawn from all the literal fires she lit through all these years -- so maybe those deaths meant something at last.

Meanwhile, for those complaining that Sansa wasn't brave enough or awesome enough in the crypts, her situation here was completely different than Blackwater, where she was a child prisoner awaiting a likely political outcome in a human conflict. The stress level was utterly different, as were the stakes. Sansa didn't want to leave her people and openly resisted going to safety until Arya ordered her to do so several times, and she then had to sit in the crypts waiting for the end of the world. Unlike Blackwater, this was basically an "Everybody dies" scenario. So I cut her and everyone else there some slack.

I loved all her conversations with Tyrion, especially that they had evolved enough that she even addressed their marriage and his real kindness -- as well as his situation now. I didn't think she was being "mean" to bring up Tyrion's divided loyalties to Dany. Like everyone else, she can see that Tyrion adores Dany on multiple levels, and Sansa is always going to be 100% for the North. And I don't blame her for her loyalty to her home and her people—she's gone through hell for both. So I thought Sansa did the best she could, and she showed bravery in the end with Tyrion. And to echo others, I have never shipped them (especially not when she was a literal child), but that final look between them here, and Tyrion's kiss to her hand was pretty swoonworthy.

I loved every moment of the dragon battles, and especially appreciated the way you could see here -- more than ever -- how physical and exhausting riding a dragon would be. You could really feel the effort for both Dany and Jon here, as well as for Drogon and Rhaegal (so glad they lived!!). The moments of the dragons high above the clouds in the moonlight were breathtaking.

I wish Bran had done more, and was disappointed that he didn't use his warging skills more strategically. I kept expecting him to warg into Viserion and crash him, or that he'd warg into Ghost -- anything that helped turn the tide of the battle. I find Bran fascinating but was a little disappointed in him here. I guess he helped set the chessboard for that final moment, but he did so little.

 Still, I thought overall this was a pretty fantastic episode, and I was falling to pieces constantly because there were so many characters I cared about and I didn't want to lose them. And I really liked that sometimes fear simply got the better of them -- real courage isn't the absence of fear, but to strive even in the face of it. I know it wasn't noble but Sam's terror was understandable, as was the Hound's. And for him to find his courage in order to save Arya one more time was so rewarding and moving. And seeing Arya scared -- ARYA -- was terrific because I was really worried for a few moments that they might actually do it, and kill her off.

And finally... Drogon curling around Dany as she cried over Jorah broke my heart. Iain Glen was so fantastic here, and I'm glad that if he had to die, he did so in his Khaleesi's arms, after defending her one last time.

Edited April 29, 2019 by paramitch
forgot one thing (SHIREEN)

[Notwisconsin]

14 minutes ago, paramitch said:

I guess [Bran] helped set the chessboard for that final moment, but he did so little.

As to the Chess analogy, Bran and the NK were "kings" and in chess, kings don't do much. Queens on the other hand...

[paramitch]

42 minutes ago, Notwisconsin said:

As to the Chess analogy, Bran and the NK were "kings" and in chess, kings don't do much. Queens on the other hand...

Beautifully said! And I agree. I was just hoping for Bran to use his superpowers a bit more in the battle itself. But I was so proud of all the women, and was seriously impressed when Dany stepped up and fought the good fight right alongside Jorah. 

Although I was also screaming "The white coat! Don't get blood on that gorgeous white coat, Dany!"

(Sorry. I really, really love that coat.)

[Friendly kitty]

5 hours ago, Glade said:

Mellisandre's death felt anti-climactic, couldn't she have sacrificed herself to save Theon or Jorah?

I felt more genuine fear for the animals. Are both of the dragons still alive? And what the fuck happened to Ghost?

Agree. Here Melisandre played the role of the piano in the bushes. All she did was talk to Arya and light the fire at the army. Here only this fire did not help in any way in battle and the army was quickly killed. And when it was over, Melisandre simply committed suicide by removing the necklace. This is very strange and ridiculous.

Dragons are alive and Ghost too. Can only they are injured. So now they will lick their wounds, and then again they will be fine.

[BooBear]

6 hours ago, AshleyN said:

Bran being almost completely useless in the fight against the White Walkers is so weird to me, and makes his entire arc seem pretty pointless in retrospect (which, as someone who actually really likes the fantasy elements of the series, is disappointing). 

I assumed that his trance was a way to distract the night king so the NK wouldn't see Arya coming in the future. Bran being so insanely calm makes me think he saw the entire thing happening year ago.  I don't feel he was useless. He was key.  But I don't think they explained that well. 

[Haleth]

6 hours ago, AshleyN said:

I assumed he would give them something crucial in terms of how to defeat the Walkers but his contribution basically amounted to...giving Arya the dagger? And sitting there as bait. At the very least they could have had him do some powerful warging (I always wanted to see him warg a dragon).

Yeah, I think a lot of fans were expecting Bran to warg a dragon.  It is disappointing he didn't do something a little more proactive than glare at the NK.  RIP, Theon.  I've always thought Alfie Allen was one of the finest actors on the show, even without much dialog his scenes were superb. 

6 hours ago, Glade said:

I loved that effect at the beginning when Mellisandre lit the Dothraki's weapons on fire and turned them into glowing dots in the distance. Otherwise, there was a lot of helms deep here.

I agree with both statements.  Much as I loved every minute I couldn't help but think much of it was copied scene for scene from Helm's Deep.

It was completely in character for Sam to be overwhelmed with fear.  Even though his inability to fight contributed to Edd's death (sob!) I would have rolled my eyes if he had suddenly turned into a bad ass fighter.

The pacing and cinematography were brilliant.  There has never been anything like this on tv.  I'll be thinking about this for a long time.

It's a legitimate question, re which battle/foe is more important--  NK and his army vs Cersei and hers?  I think if the good guys had dispatched Cersei first and then fought the NK there would be just as much dissatisfaction.  Personally I think they got it right.

Edited April 29, 2019 by Haleth

[jcin617]

6 hours ago, mmal said:

I really hope that D&D didn't just flush the whole "prince/princess that was promised" storyline right down the toilet.

I'm hanging on to the fact that Ned was never king, so Arya can't be a princess. Of course, D&D might just make up something to explain it away.
 

No, but Robb was, and the sister of the King might be considered a Princess.   But, that said, they pointed out before that the word for "prince" is gender-neutral, but perhaps as a prophecy it had a duality to it as well:  Jon is the literal prince, destined to save the realms from their own darkness by uniting the people together, whereas Arya is the more spiritual princess, the one to save the realms from the darkness of death itself.

[Hana Chan]

Wow... this is the kind of episode where there was just so much going on that I really needed to take the night to think and absorb what I'd just seen. Because by the end of the first viewing, I was mentally and physically drained. There were so many amazing moments of action, heroism, chaos and even calmness that I was on edge the entire time. There were moments that made the D-Day invasion of "Saving Private Ryan" look like a walk in Central Park on a nice spring day and and others where I felt like I was watching a scene from "Friday the Thirteenth." It was a visual and emotional roller coaster.

The opening scene alone is Emmy worthy. To feel the tension of the soldiers waiting to face the AOTD and not having any real clue over what they were facing. To see the Dothraki riding out with their flaming blades and then see them totally overwhelmed by the AOTD and the lights going out in the distance was chilling and made it clear that no matter what happened, we were in for a total blood bath. And it set the stage for the moment when the best laid plans (at least as good as they could have) start to fall apart when Dany mounts Drogon and enters the fray too early because her Dothraki were totally wiped out.

Every "advantage" that Team Alive had on their side was quickly overcome. Two dragons? Create a massive blizzard where they can't see anything and collide with one another. Fire moat? Use your own troops to create a corpse bridge so the wights can get past it. How do you fight an enemy who can grow his army exponentially and use your own fallen against you? No one, not even Jon (who out of anyone has the best knowledge of what they're facing) had any idea how to really fight this kind of enemy.

Arya being the one to kill the NK was a stroke of pure genius and she deserves all the props as MVP. But everyone who fought and died gave Arya the opening to make that kill shot. It makes total sense that the only way to kill the NK was by stealth.

Like others, I was a little surprised that we didn't lose any of the really big mains , but the deaths we had were pretty devastating. Lady Mormount went out like a total boss (RIP Little Bear) and Jorah died defending the woman that he loved. I outright cried when Edd died (His watch is ended) and Theon... 

 Am still processing things and I'm going to want to watch the ep a few more times just because there was so much to absorb. It really was probably one of the most masterfully staged battles that I've ever seen. I can't quite shake the feeling that the NK story isn't totally over even though he's dead, but we'll have to see.

Edited April 29, 2019 by Hana Chan

[ACW]

1 hour ago, jcin617 said:

No, but Robb was, and the sister of the King might be considered a Princess.   But, that said, they pointed out before that the word for "prince" is gender-neutral, but perhaps as a prophecy it had a duality to it as well:  Jon is the literal prince, destined to save the realms from their own darkness by uniting the people together, whereas Arya is the more spiritual princess, the one to save the realms from the darkness of death itself.

As someone else said somewhere: Maybe the Prince was Joffrey?  After all, he's the one who provided that dagger...

P.S.  The showrunners said in the aftershow that the reason the Valeryian steel dagger killed the Night King was that it stabbed him in the heart, where the shard of dragonglass used to create him was.

Edited April 29, 2019 by ACW

[ACW]

6 hours ago, RobertDeSneero said:

They foreshadowed it with Mellisandre telling her that Beric had a purpose that he fulfilled, but let's not forget that after Beric fulfilled that purpose, he died.  If Arya has fulfilled her purpose, will the universe feel free to discard her as soon as the next episode?  .

I have a strong feeling that A Man came over with the Golden Company, to deal with A Girl. Either because she's *really* broken the rules now (I mean, the Faceless Men literally *work for* the God of Death); or because she was trained specifically for this mission, and now it's done.

Either way, I wonder if the last word Arya will hear (or say) is "Today."

[benteen]

I thought they did an amazing job with this episode and for the most part I really liked it.  But the end just didn't work for me, I'm afraid. 

For seven years, they built up this unstoppable threat and then it just ends.  If the Dead never get past Winterfell, then they ultimately weren't much of a threat.

As much as I like Arya, I wasn't feeling having her be the one to kill the Night King.  I really felt like that should have been Jon but D and D have CONSISTENTLY undermined and neutered Jon in these moments.  They had Sansa inexplicably withhold information from Jon about LF's army prior to the Battle of the Bastards, forcing him to go into the battle blind.  He didn't contribute much to that battle there and D and D made sure to constantly mention that Sansa had won the Battle of the Bastards.  In this battle, Jon contributes very little to the overall victory.  Seriously, he's the main character on the show, the true heir to the Iron Throne whom was brought back from the North and he contributes next to nothing in these big moments.  It just feels like Show Jon gets moved around by other characters from place to place when needed.  It's like he has no agency at al.

I strongly suspect in the books that the battle against the Dead will be the final battle and the most important battle.  I'm positive that Arya will not be the one who strikes the decisive blow.  To me, having her kill the Night King just feels like D and D trying to contrive another "grrrrrl power" moment.

Then again, it's not like we're ever going to read GRRM's version of events.  He's never going to finish the books and has lost whatever interest he had left in writing this story.

But for the most part, there was a lot to really like about this episode.  The Dothraki swords lighting up and then disappearing was a fantastic sequence.  While the picture was often dark, there were some amazing visuals and I think they did a great job with the fighting sequences.

I predicted Jorah, Theon and Beric would die (they definitely wimped out on bigger deaths here).  Theon got the best death scene and everything with him and with him and Bran was gold.  Alfie Allen was always an underrated performer on this show and I thought he should have got an Emmy nomination in Season 2.  If D and D hadn't screwed up the Reek storyline, I think he could have got one for his later work.  But Theon's last stand is poignant and awesome.

I loved how viciously Sam ended up fighting.  I think even his father would have been proud.

I was glad we got dragon-to-dragon fighting but I wish we would have had something out of the Duel from Harrenhal with Jon jumping from his dragon to the Night King's dragon to fight him.

Night King raising the dead was awesome.

Sansa and Tyrion had some good scenes together although the show is trying to contrive them back together (a political marriage between those two would probably make sense).  Sansa did nothing to try to comfort "her people" down in the crypts except complain about Dany.  I thought the crypts were a lot bigger than that too.

RIP House Mormont.

Like I said, for the most part I really enjoyed it and thought they did an amazing job.  But how quickly the threat ended really undermined that long-simmering storyline.  Plus, D and D have rendered their main character Jon Snow irrelevant once again for no reason whatsoever other than to contrive another grrrrlr power moment like they did with Sansa at BOTB.

Can the show stick the landing from here?  We'll see.

[Hanahope]

7 hours ago, mmal said:

I'm hanging on to the fact that Ned was never king, so Arya can't be a princess. Of course, D&D might just make up something to explain it away.

Well, Jon is/was King in the North, and they are related.