S07.E08: A Housewarming Divided

[walnutqueen]

21 minutes ago, Drogo said:

Have to say... I'd be pretty pissed if Beau told Stassi her "face is annoying and her hat is annoying and to get away from him because he doesn't want to look at her" so I don't really know why I'm not more pissed at Ariana.  Maybe I have a double standard for the mean things women can say to men. 

Or maybe it's because FI's hat was annoying as hell, as was he.  ;-)

[bichonblitz]

Ariana sure has changed from the girl a season or two ago that hated her vagina, thought it was ugly and didn't like sex to a girl that has no problem climbing in to the back seat of Tom's car with Lala so Lala could go down on her, while Tom is driving! Who is the real Ariana?

The car riding comments to Marina Del Ray were very funny!

Jax seems very serious and pensive this season. I'm not used to this Jax. 

All three guys (Jax, FI and Schwartz) were on WWHL. They all looked incredibly handsome and somewhat grown up. Jax's hate for James is real, though. 

[Carolina Girl]

Jax's hate for James is pathological.  Jax has hurt and embarrassed Brittany far worse than James' ill-advised drunken "rap" that one night, for which he apologized profusely and when I checked, Jax and Brittany accepted.  In fact, Jax has done far worse to the group as a whole, to Stassi, etc. than anything James has done.  Jax can go take a fucking seat with his "hatred".  These clowns have forgiven that walking turd for all the pain he's caused over the years.

I'm not defending James' actions by any means, but for a loathsome shit like Jax to assume the moral superiority role is a little too much for me.

Edited January 29, 2019 by Carolina Girl
clarification may be important here.

[Panda Bear]

Jax just likes that someone else is the bad guy right now. When the focus is on James, it means it's off him. 

[heatherchandler]

9 hours ago, FrankieTankie said:

Ariana is a piece of shit ... she’s stuck and think the world revolves around her ... she treats Tom like a dog and is always telling him what he’s doing wrong... granted Tom is a sissy and he seems more attracted to himself and the other Tom... I really don’t think Ariana even likes Tom ... Tom is always complaining they never have sex and he’s always trying to sleep with her and she’s never in the mood but she’ll hop in the back seat of car and let lala go down on her .... can’t stand her 

YES!

She does not love Tom, she doesn't even like him.  I really hate her - she thinks she is smarter than all of them.  When she was like, "when speaking as an ally..."  SHUT THE FUCK UP, you are not the authority on ANYTHING.  

[Juliegirlj]

Ariana is a phony, and it wouldn’t surprise me if her entire storyline about not wanting kids is fake. No doubt she and Tom both came up with the idea of talking about the Ariana/ Lala hookup. 

I’m glad Lala called Billy out for her extra behavior. 

Billy has surely been through a lot, but she is so unlikeable it is difficult to care. 

[bosawks]

I think Billie is smart enough to realize that making an issue of the moral lapses of any of these people guarantees that she will always be a little bit right even when she's wrong.

[esco1822]

Was James also drinking at the cigar bar portion of Tom's Birthday party? Sure looked like he had a brandy snifter in the "cheers." Also, after Tom told the story about Ariana and Lala, didn't someone ask if he had a threesome and he said he chickened out? I feel like there are a lot of details left out of this story so I can't properly decide how I feel about it. Gut instinct, Ariana is totally right to be upset with sharing the story of what happened. He totally seemed like he was bragging about it. I also tend to think if he was upset about what happened, he should have said something either in the moment, or privately to Ariana after the fact. Instead he used being uncomfortable with what happened as a justification for talking about it with the guys and that is a load of b.s. Of course the timeline is muddled so who knows when this actually happened. Last week, last year, last night? I also agree that both Tom and his hat were annoying. And that he and Ariana need to break up since they clearly want different things. When Jax is the voice of reason, we should all run and had as it is definitely a sign that the apocalypse is near. 

[Pop Tart]

2 hours ago, ghoulina said:

Valid point. I did laugh when Lala was all, "Oh it happened, but I lied to protect Ariana". Yet you're telling everyone in your confessional. Does she really think she's having a private conversation with a priest or something?

I thought that at first too, but then I figured that the confessional must have been recorded after all the discussions had already happened. So Tom gossips to the guys about the event, Jax tells Brittany and Lala (who denies it happened), then at the skating party she confirms with Ariana that she (Ariana) was letting everyone know it was true, and she tells Ariana that she would have kept lying about it if Ariana was doing so as well. After all of that is when I think the confessional had to have been recorded. So if Ariana had denied it happened, Lala would have continued to do so too and not have said what she did in her confessional. That's how I'd guess the timeline went.

I do think Lala had some concern about the story for her own self-preservation in that she'd just been outed as cheating on "My Man" with Ariana, but once the cat was fully out of the bag and Ariana was copping to it all, then Lala knew it was a moot point and declared it so in her talking head.

With the whole Billie thing - which is beyond tiring at this point - I think the true reason that she was not included in the planning is because the other women don't see her as a full cast member and probably barely gave her a second thought (not to invite her to help nor to make her feel unincluded) and that's what really sticks in Billie's craw. Billie is clearly determined to get on the show (hey it worked for Mallory on RHOA, so worth a shot) as a full-time cast member and you can just see her in every single scene striving to be as relevant and interesting as possible. But like Sheana I'm not sure it will be possible. The original core group is tight with each other - they've had their ups and downs (like to the nth degree sometimes) but they always circle back to being the group that is: the Toms, Katie, Ariana, Kristin, Stassy and Jax (and their partners whoever they may be in the moment).

When I watched the behind the scenes of the first season this was the group - with perhaps different partners at the time. Scheana was brought into the cast as a spoiler, but while she's had ups and downs and ebbs and flows with the group, she's never quite made it in. Nor has Racquel. And I don't see it happening for Billie either. 

James and Lala are kind of outliers in this breakdown - but I think that's because they're meant to be the court jesters/dramatic catalysts driving story for the core group.

[nexxie]

Unless they have an open relationship, Tom should dump Ariana asap. She’s mad at him?! He’s apologetic because she’s confused/entitled about her sexuality. Girl, bye.

[jmcd44]

I actually always thought Tom and Ariana had an open relationship.  She never seemed too concerned about Miami Girl (I know that wasn't confirmed) and they had a more grayish area.  I find Tom to be super annoying and lame so just because of that I'm on Ariana's side (I am also petty).  They seem like really asexual people who are good friends.  Or stay together for the show.  

I find Billie to be obnoxious a lot of the time (all having to do with her personality) and I like Katie time to time, but she really messed up last night.  When Billie came to apologize to her (which I thought was very well done), Katie was a real jerk about it.  She could've upped her personal likability with the viewing public (which seems to be low) by accepting and then offering her own explanation and apology about how she did not understand Billie's feelings (because I'm not sure I would've thought about it too until it was pointed out) and will do better to learn and be more inclusive in the future and yes of course Billie should help plan the next one and go do a shot and move on.  Then Billie gets closer to the Witches, which alienates James, which is a Witches goal.  I'm just saying Katie-play the LONG CON here.  And stop being a jerk.

[HunterHunted]

25 minutes ago, Pop Tart said:

Billie is clearly determined to get on the show (hey it worked for Mallory on RHOA, so worth a shot) as a full-time cast member and you can just see her in every single scene striving to be as relevant and interesting as possible.

Her name is Marlo and she's never been more than a friend. The best examples for bootstrapping yourself into a main castmember are Kathryn Dennis (Southern Charm), Brandi Glanville (Real Housewives of Beverly Hills), and James and Lala.

25 minutes ago, Pop Tart said:

But like Sheana I'm not sure it will be possible. The original core group is tight with each other - they've had their ups and downs (like to the nth degree sometimes) but they always circle back to being the group that is: the Toms, Katie, Ariana, Kristin, Stassy and Jax (and their partners whoever they may be in the moment).

When I watched the behind the scenes of the first season this was the group - with perhaps different partners at the time. Scheana was brought into the cast as a spoiler, but while she's had ups and downs and ebbs and flows with the group, she's never quite made it in. Nor has Racquel. And I don't see it happening for Billie either. 

James and Lala are kind of outliers in this breakdown - but I think that's because they're meant to be the court jesters/dramatic catalysts driving story for the core group.

I guess Scheana is a bit of a spoiler, but she was also the audience's way in too. They spent a significant amount of time on Beverly Hills acclimating the audience to Scheana so that at least when she and we met this cast of assholes there was at least a couple of people that we knew.

I don't think we would have seen as much resistance to Scheana if Stassi hadn't been part of the cast. Scheana actually had been friendly with the others when they worked at Villa Blanca. A lot of this crap was Stassi and unsurprisingly, this was Stassi's 3rd reality tv show (Amazing Race: Family Edition and Queen Bees and Wannabes). She's also very fame hungry and manipulative. Part of what motivated her quitting between season 2 and 3 was that there were whispers that she might get her own show. If fucking Scheana over helps Kristen or Katie, Stassi might do it. If fucking Scheana over helps Stassi, then Stassi will absolutely do it.

[Pop Tart]

7 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

Her name is Marlo and she's never been more than a friend. The best examples for bootstrapping yourself into a main castmember are Kathryn Dennis (Southern Charm), Brandi Glanville (Real Housewives of Beverly Hills), and James and Lala.

Ha! Thanks for the correction. I knew Mallory was not right as I was typing it, but I didn't feel like looking it up. And I've only watched the Atlanta season intermittently this year so I couldn't tell if Marlo had made it onto the cast or not (she seems to be on allllllllll the time).

[Mr. Miner]

1 hour ago, esco1822 said:

Also, after Tom told the story about Ariana and Lala, didn't someone ask if he had a threesome and he said he chickened out?

I wonder what MyMan thought of this? If this happened on the PJ would MyMan chicken out?

[biakbiak]

I am curious when the Ariana/Lala hookup happened. They were talking about their partners past relationships and Tom said “I never told you about this...” which seemed to me that this was not something that happened recently.

Tom seemed more upset that he had to take care of two wasted girls not that his girlfriend was hooking up with someone so it seems like they have an open relationship.

[DeeReynolds]

I think Sandoval's hat and stripped shirt outfit was part of his "Cuban" costume since they went to the cigar bar. I mean, if you don't dress to the occasion, did it really even happen?

[HunterHunted]

Marlo has been a friend and a guest,  but never a main.

Unsurprisingly, dating or pretending to be romantically interested in another cast member is the fastest way to become a fulltime cast member. It worked James when he dated Kristen, Lala when she spent the entirety of season 4 flirting with James, Jax, and Schwartz and otherwise being messy. It worked for Kathryn who pole vaulted (or more accurately vaulted poles) past guest to main by screwing most of the male cast. To a lesser extent, Naomi Olindo and Chelt-sie moved from friend to main based on who they were dating.

Scheana is so thirsty for fame. However, she's completely unwilling to compromise herself like Lala does to achieve wealth and stability. Lala practically does a credit check on every dude she's actually been involved with. Whereas as Scheana is an immature princess. She wants a guy who is hot and around her age and famous and wealthy and has cool famous friends and so on and so forth. You just want to yell "Grow the fuck up Charlotte Yorke."

[ninjago]

I think this show has pretty much eaten itself at this point.  

The cast are just young enough to be able to parlay the show into big money hawking weight-loss shakes on Instagram and making appearances at clubs, none of which can be covered on the show without breaking the fourth wall.  But that's what most of them are really doing in their real life, so the show is left to made up squabbles that are, at root, about who gets to be on the show and who doesn't.  Only the Toms and Jax/Brittany have anything substantial going on outside the show.

 I've always thought the histrionic MEN are what makes this show different than a million other reality shows, so I'd be happy to restart at TomTom Club, with Tom and Tom and a new cast of pre-fame famewhores.

[Drogo]

1 hour ago, Mr. Minor said:

I wonder what MyMan thought of this? If this happened on the PJ would MyMan chicken out?

Would he have to change his name to OurMan?

[ghoulina]

5 hours ago, Drogo said:

Have to say... I'd be pretty pissed if Beau told Stassi her "face is annoying and her hat is annoying and to get away from him because he doesn't want to look at her" so I don't really know why I'm not more pissed at Ariana.  Maybe I have a double standard for the mean things women can say to men. 

Or maybe that hat really WAS that annoying; and someone lambasting Sandoval for his fashion choices was long overdue?

[ghoulina]

3 hours ago, Panda Bear said:

Jax just likes that someone else is the bad guy right now. When the focus is on James, it means it's off him. 

Exactly. And going after James so hard makes him look like a "hero" to Brittany. He thinks it will repair his rep. And....it's kind of working. 

[yourmomiseasy]

2 hours ago, nexxie said:

Unless they have an open relationship, Tom should dump Ariana asap. She’s mad at him?! He’s apologetic because she’s confused/entitled about her sexuality. Girl, bye.

While I agree with the first part, I don't necessarily agree with the second.  If he was talking to his bros about how he was upset that Arianna cheated on him it would be okay, but he brought it up to titillate and brag.

24 minutes ago, ninjago said:

 Only the Toms and Jax/Brittany have anything substantial going on outside the show.

 

Stassi has her podcast and a book and apparently the relaunched james.mae is possibly doing well -- I think I heard Kristin say they did $9k in one day.  Kristin, Katie, and Stassi have their wine coming out this week, but IDK how big that is  It looks like it is through a wine club that does a new "celebrity" branded wine each month.

[DrSparkles]

1 hour ago, DeeReynolds said:

I think Sandoval's hat and stripped shirt outfit was part of his "Cuban" costume since they went to the cigar bar. I mean, if you don't dress to the occasion, did it really even happen?

Oh my god, you are so right 🤣🤣🤣

[HunterHunted]

51 minutes ago, ninjago said:

I've always thought the histrionic MEN are what makes this show different than a million other reality shows, so I'd be happy to restart at TomTom Club, with Tom and Tom and a new cast of pre-fame famewhores.

RHoNJ had a very long stretch where the husbands were messy and really histrionic: Joes Gorga and Giudice, Rich Wakile, and Jim Marchese. But the show where all of the men are disastrous messes who largely drive the action of the show is...Southern Charm. The men on that show are catastrophes and excluding Kathryn and Ashley, you know you could hang with any of the women and have a perfectly nice time. But those guys? Yeesh! We've got the two drug using rapists, Mother-boy, perennial 25 year old frat boy Shep, a copy of a copy (Austen), and flaky Craig.

I was over on Reddit. There were a lot of complaints there about how stagnant the show feels. It really does.

Edited January 29, 2019 by HunterHunted

[PhilMarlowe2]

6 hours ago, Jel said:

 I don't see any perfect behavior in this scenario, Billie gave as good as she got, but would it have killed them to say sorry I didn't think about how their unintentional exclusion could have made Billie feel...at some point... like Ariana did? Maybe they did say that, and good for them if they did. 

But I will say this: I'm a middle-aged, Canadian suburban housewife, and I know what cis-privilege means; the fact that Lala doesn't, or refuses to admit she does, tells me something about her.

Yeah, Billie is not a saint in this situation, but Lala comes off looking and sounding like a total asshole for being so dismissive of her. Not that it's a surprise, but Lala's "woke-ness" is showing the strain of its very limited mileage.

[gritz]

Beau's shorts looked like he rubbed them in dirt before putting them on. I like the guy okay, but he always looks kind of ripe.

Billie, again with an accusation of "privilege" when it had nothing to do with the issue at hand (LaLa getting up and leaving). LaLa can't help she's cis-gendered any more than Billie can't help that she's not, and all of that resentment and victimhood isn't good for the soul.

TomTom turned out great!

[politichick]

5 hours ago, nexxie said:

Unless they have an open relationship, Tom should dump Ariana asap. She’s mad at him?! He’s apologetic because she’s confused/entitled about her sexuality. Girl, bye.

I don't think she's confused at all, she just wasn't trying to put it on blast for all the world to know. Also, Jax very conveniently forgot that he started the whole stupid conversation by saying that Brittany has visited the lady pond. Tom is entitled to have his feelings about the Lala hook up, but he should not be gossiping about it with his boys.

[Carolina Girl]

46 minutes ago, gritz said:

TomTom turned out great!

No doubt because the Toms were taken out of the design equation.  But it really DOES look fabulous.  I did love that Alain told Lisa that he did not want to deal with them on the day they were supposed to come and view.  They sure did make an impression in Vegas, didn't they?

[nexxie]

51 minutes ago, politichick said:

I don't think she's confused at all, she just wasn't trying to put it on blast for all the world to know. Also, Jax very conveniently forgot that he started the whole stupid conversation by saying that Brittany has visited the lady pond. Tom is entitled to have his feelings about the Lala hook up, but he should not be gossiping about it with his boys.

Ariana has had this whole storyline about her confusion/discomfort regarding her body, and specifically her vagina - I don’t think the real story is clear yet.

[ParadoxLost]

16 hours ago, langford peel said:

Correct me if I am wrong but haven’t we had whole seasons of drama about cheating? Ariana cheated on Tom right in front of his face and he is supposed to like it because why? Because it was a same sex hook up so that doesn’t count?

Wait a minute.... she cheated on him behind his back. He was in the front seat.

Never mind.

Its not that I think Tom shouldn't be bothered by it.  I just think Sandoval is more image conscious and likely to try to hide stuff unless he is upset and unhappy enough that he is thinking about getting out.  To me, Sandoval wanting to get out of a relationship will make sure a light is shined on his his partner's transgressions and that he appears the totally innocent party.

[HunterHunted]

4 hours ago, PhilMarlowe2 said:

Yeah, Billie is not a saint in this situation, but Lala comes off looking and sounding like a total asshole for being so dismissive of her. Not that it's a surprise, but Lala's "woke-ness" is showing the strain of its very limited mileage.

I think I've made myself abundantly clear about how I feel about Lala. Nearly everything out of her mouth is beyond suspect. From her continuous use of a "blaccent" despite being a white girl who grew up in Utah to her willingness to fuck over the POC in her life when they disagree with her even slightly (like pulling a knife on Faith or dropping her music producer and talking shit about him because he indicated that he'd be willing to work with Scheana), she has demonstrated that her wokeness is an inch deep. Furthermore, Lala's refusal to even let Billie explain why she reacted the way she did, also shows how shallow her understanding and support of these issues is.

3 hours ago, gritz said:

Billie, again with an accusation of "privilege" when it had nothing to do with the issue at hand (LaLa getting up and leaving). LaLa can't help she's cis-gendered any more than Billie can't help that she's not, and all of that resentment and victimhood isn't good for the soul.

The issue isn't so much that Lala is privileged. The issue is whether Lala chooses to act on her privilege or is aware of when she benefits from her privilege when others wouldn't. It's also a matter of whether Lala chooses to take affirmative steps to alleviate disparities and discrimination. On a whole host of issues, Lala has demonstrated that she has only 30 seconds of "give a fuck."

She's always for girls/womens empowerment and against denigrating women when it's about how James treats women, sometimes when it's about how Jax treats some women, and never when it comes to how she treats other women. So it's completely ok for her to call Raquel a dumb ho rather trying to sit down and have a thoughtful conversation about Raquel's defenses of James.

Living with the resentment isn't healthy, but I take exception to the idea Billie is wallowing in her victimhood. She's never really been able to share her story on this show. Furthermore when Jussie Smollett can be attacked in an apparent racist homophobic attack just a couple of hours ago, who am I to say that Billie is wallowing or dwelling in her victimhood when this garbage show hasn't cared enough about her to bother letting her recount her story.

And as I've said before, the show barely cared about any queer people enough to let them show enough of their lives for viewers to even describe any personality traits to them. Try to describe Jesse Montana without using gay, asian, hairstylist, Scheana's friend, or works at SUR despite him being present at nearly every filmed event season 2 and part of the cast since season 4.

[janie2002]

Watching this just reinforces that Brit got oral from Kristen. I think they are all kinky and think girl on girl is not cheating. The face Jax made when he said Britney has been in lady pond was like you remember.

[dosodog]

Girl on girl is "different".*

It reminds me of how men are uncomfortable with male on male porn, but can't understand why I, as a woman, have no interest in watching woman on woman porn.

We still have a ways to go, baby. 

*Sarcasm.  Heavy, dripping sarcasm. 

I wonder if Herman and Lala would still be together if it had been Flat Iron and not Ariana.

[vmarsissmart]

Why does Billie Lee always look like she is entering a room like a cat looking for her prey.  

When she approached Lala, when she approached Kristen and Katie at her brunch.  

I get why she's angry, but her actions were defamatory to Katie and the other girls. To the point they are still getting bashed online because of Billie's "liking" tweets.  

If I were Katie, I would want nothing to do with her.  

"I never said transphobic" is bullshit.  When you imply something it doesn't make you any less guilty of something.  Just because you didn't say it directly doesn't mean you didn't put out that message by what you like online.  Look at that Garret guy who won the bachelor. He ate shit for liking tweets that were hating on immigrants (or something) and had to release a statement.  Liking something is endorsing the message. I don't care who you are.  She liked those posts, she knew people would see it. She's endorsing that message.  I would be pissed as fuck.  Apologizing in this case does not take away the damage or the intent of your message.  That shit is going to follow Katie forever.  

[IntrovertRed]

31 minutes ago, janie2002 said:

Watching this just reinforces that Brit got oral from Kristen. I think they are all kinky and think girl on girl is not cheating. The face Jax made when he said Britney has been in lady pond was like you remember.

Totally got that as well.  Why not just admit to it when it was brought up?  And maybe I"m a total prude and lame, but I guess I don't get girlfriends getting drunk and just going down on each other.  This group is definitely open to everything.  Also I feel like Brittany's facade is fading a bit.  Maybe it's the engagement, but she seems more on edge and just not the sweetest person ever.  I mean, someone has to be kind of an asshole to be able to fit in with all these yahoos so easily right?!

Jax definitely felt like the 'old man' of the group last night.  I've been rewatching the earlier seasons and they just seem so OLD now compared to the first couple seasons.  All the partying and drinking, plastic surgery and the LA lifestyle is rough man!  He definitely is coming across more mature this season.  Still can't picture him being a dad though.

Tom and Ariana - yawn.

God help me, but I felt the show was a dull with so little Stassi.

[Petunia13]

11 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Her name is Marlo and she's never been more than a friend. The best examples for bootstrapping yourself into a main castmember are Kathryn Dennis (Southern Charm), Brandi Glanville (Real Housewives of Beverly Hills), and James and Lala.

There is a Mallory on RHOA. She’s Cynthia’s sister. 

[Jel]

6 hours ago, vmarsissmart said:

Why does Billie Lee always look like she is entering a room like a cat looking for her prey.  

When she approached Lala, when she approached Kristen and Katie at her brunch.  

I get why she's angry, but her actions were defamatory to Katie and the other girls. To the point they are still getting bashed online because of Billie's "liking" tweets.  

If I were Katie, I would want nothing to do with her.  

"I never said transphobic" is bullshit.  When you imply something it doesn't make you any less guilty of something.  Just because you didn't say it directly doesn't mean you didn't put out that message by what you like online.  Look at that Garret guy who won the bachelor. He ate shit for liking tweets that were hating on immigrants (or something) and had to release a statement.  Liking something is endorsing the message. I don't care who you are.  She liked those posts, she knew people would see it. She's endorsing that message.  I would be pissed as fuck.  Apologizing in this case does not take away the damage or the intent of your message.  That shit is going to follow Katie forever.  

People like posts for their own reasons -- I assume it's often because they agree, but at least in my case, sometimes it's because they don't, but the reader feels the poster is a civilized person with good intentions, who has brought up an important point, something worth discussing, some other perspectives to consider,  etc. Sometimes the motivation is simply an attempt to keep the discourse civil, and to keep it going because civil debate is always preferable to the alternative, imo. Occasionally minds do change, but you need to keep the debate going a while (and keep it civil) for that to happen.  And sadly, sometimes it's assholes liking assholism, but that's not us Vmarsissmart :) 

I haven't read the tweets and I don't know what Billie liked, so I can't really speak to what she liked or didn't.  (Does Billie get credit for *not* liking tweets that said Katie was a transphobe?) I do know that Katie is voluntarily on tv, calling people whores, yelling that others' dicks don't work, shunning, shaming -- she's done and said plenty in the pre-Billie years, and she's redeemed herself.  She also had an opportunity (and still has) to just say something kind like, "I just didn't think about how that (unintentional exclusion) might have made you feel, Billie, and I'm sorry for that".  For the life of me I can't understand why she wouldn't do that. Saying so does not negate the fact that she didn't like the insinuation that she's a transphobe, a few words of kindness and understanding is not an admission of guilt; it's a show of compassion.  An apology for not thinking about how it might have made Billie feel would not be *proof!* that Katie is a hater, it'd be proof that she isn't: evidence that she's capable of empathazing with someone who's had a very different life experience than her.  She'd show herself to be someone who's willing to step outside her own perspective and life experience for a moment to think about what it might be like to be someone else.  How could that be bad or weak?  Does anyone think Katie is transphobic? I sure don't, but insensitive and self-absorbed? Afraid so. And let's not forget that no one handled the situation very well, Billie could have easily said "I'm annoyed as hell at Katie right now, but she's no transphobe".  If she hasn't already, I hope she does say something like that.

Being excluded from girl stuff is a hot button issue for Billie. Don't we all know people who have things they are extra sensitive about, and out of kindness we just don't do or say things that will cause them pain? And if we unintentionally do cause harm, we apologize? This is Adulting 101.  Katie is sensitive about her weight -- she's not really fat, (and geez, not like that's a crime anyway) but she felt shamed by James. Billie is sensitive about her gender assignment at birth -- she wasn't excluded because she is trans, but the exclusion felt like rejection. This is exactly the same kind of energy in both situations. 

The irony of the whole thing for me is that I do think Katie excluded her because she was pissed at her about other stuff, (none of which had to do with her gender identification) and Billie was simply getting the full mean girl.  And Billie confounded the whole thing by telling Lisa that she could pull the trans card, which made her come off as manipulative.  Boo Billie. But do any of us really believe that Billie hasn't endured some real pain and hardship because she is trans? And that that has left her scarred and sensitive so that she may overreact because of it a bit from time to time?  Can't those of us (like Katie) who haven't got all that baggage to carry around just cut her a little slack for that, maybe err on the side of kindness or understanding or something? To whom much is given, much is expected.

[snarts]

Let's be real, Billie is pissed that she's not main cast member, a point which was reinforced when she wasn't included on the tweet about Girls Night.  (Key note that none of the other female SUR workers that night were included either)  Billie took it personally because she fancies herself a cast member.  She took that anger out on Katie and not only liked, but retweeted,  a number of comments accusing Katie & others of being transphobic.  Not cool. 

Billie's actions last year when warned about Ariana's brother showed me all I need to know about her and what's she after.  I don't blame anyone from not trusting her and/or avoiding her. For her to turn on Lala like she did, just shows how much she's chasing the camera. Lala was the one who befriended her and brought her into the group in the first place. 

[The Mighty Peanut]

Quote

I suspect that you're right and that this is why he's seems so pissy about everything (more so than usual) this season. He's taking all his negative feelings about his relationship and projecting them outwards.

Quote

 

 

 

Ok I really messed up the quote function; my apologies.

Anyway, I agree with all of this, except none of these guys can end their codependent relationships directly and will instead act like a monster until she does the actual breaking up. We can expect Tom to cheat soon. I do wonder if we will see it on TV--neither of them want Kristen to be right. 

The writing is on the wall. Tom wants to have sex with Ariana and she doesn't want to, plus she specifically doesn't want oral performed. Then what does Lala do? Have oral sex with Tom's girlfriend. Tom is pushing 40 and wants to get married. Ariana is hanging on to her youth and at this point doesn't want to get married possibly ever. Tom says kids are a non-negotiable factor, Ariana is phobic of pregnancy and doesn't want kids. Tom is loyal to his friends to a fault, Ariana doesn't really care for them and sees them as a duty for the show. The only major red flag they don't have (that we know) is handling money issues.

I very well may be projecting my own issues, but hear me out. I have never desired kids and will not be disappointed if it never happens for me. But when I was married I was VEHEMENTLY against them. It took until after I was divorced that I realized I wasn't that opposed to kids, I was opposed to kids WITH HIM. Now, I have no drive to try for a baby, but no longer live in fear of being attached to my partner for life by a child. I think that might be going on a bit with Ariana.

This post is way too long, but one last thing: ever notice when Ariana is on the wrong side of Tom over anything it's due to a deeply rooted phobia? Phobic about her vag, phobic about marriage, phobic about pregnancy. I think she's looking for a reason not to have a conversation, too, so she makes it impossible to argue with her without seeming like an asshole for being insensitive to her fears.

Edited January 30, 2019 by The Mighty Peanut

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

Ariana was never that into Tom, she just got an ego boost from him being so infatuated with her.  She could talk about not wanting to marry all she wants, but if she ever met a guy she was crazy-mad in love with, of course she would.  She's just never been insanely in love with a guy who was never that into her.  It does feel different.  I remember Tom looking like the cat that got the cream in season 3 when he was telling Schwartz about waking up and just getting down to it and how he'd already had sex with Ariana that morning.  Ariana was definitely taking the role of The Cool Girl.  It was all bullshit.

The Lala thing is kind of strange to me, but I don't know about all this, considering she lives with him (I assume--unless that's just for the purposes of this show). Maybe it "feel different" for some, but she's far from the only woman--person--on earth that doesn't feel the need to get married, even if she is madly in love with the person she's with. In fact, I'm one of those people; I wouldn't love my own boyfriend more than I do now if I were married to him. 
 

Edited January 30, 2019 by TattleTeeny

[tvfanatic13]

11 hours ago, dosodog said:

Girl on girl is "different".*

It reminds me of how men are uncomfortable with male on male porn, but can't understand why I, as a woman, have no interest in watching woman on woman porn.

We still have a ways to go, baby. 

*Sarcasm.  Heavy, dripping sarcasm. 

I wonder if Herman and Lala would still be together if it had been Flat Iron and not Ariana.

Why are people assuming that the Lala/Ariana encounter occurred when she was dating her man. It could have been before. 

[RHJunkie]

I'll say it again, Billie was dead wrong for the way she addressed her hurt feelings from being excluded and she was dead wrong for retweeting and/or liking tweets that insinuated that Katie and the others were transphobic. That said, Billie seemed to have recognized where she faltered and she attempted to civilly address the issue but she wanted to be clear about her feelings in that moment because that was a legitimate trigger for her. Lala went from 0 to 60 without listening and Katie was completley dismissive and made herself into the victim without acknowledging the role she played in hurting someone else's feelings. It was all about her. If Katie had addressed the issue initially the way Ariana handled it, the problem would have likely de-escalated quickly. And I also felt Katie was being disingenuous by making it seem like Billie's exclusion was simply an oversight. Katie was likely still bitter about Billie's comments to Kristen at brunch and she had no desire to include her. Instead of just saying 'hey, I didn't include you because you pissed me off at brunch with you defending James and blaming Kristen for his behaviour it would have been a more fair representation of where Katie's head was at at the time. She just isn't ringing authentic in the way she's handling this situation which is disappointing because I thought she had taken real steps forward last season but I guess she still needs to work on dealing with issues when she's one of the people at the centre of those issues.  

It was a shitty thing for Sandoval to tell the others about Ariana and Lala hooking up but Ariana seems like a pretty shitty girlfriend and I'm not sure why Sandoval is holding on for such dear life. I get that some couples participate in open relationships and that's all well and good but it seems like common decency and respect toward your primary partner that you have discussions with them first when you're interested or going to participate in another relationship. The fact that Ariana just did it and did it right in front of Sandoval without any consideration for how he would feel only makes her look like a selfish bitch who cares only for her own needs and Sandoval is just along for the ride. Jax is right, they are too far along in their relationship to not be having important conversations especially around topics that are potential deal breakers for one side. There is nothing wrong with either of their needs, but it's a disaster waiting to happen when their needs to don't align with one another. Sandoval is too old to be scared to address these issues with Ariana and make an adult decision about his own future.

I genuinely don't understand Scheana's neediness when it comes to men. Like it's absolutely baffling to me. Does she have daddy issues or something? I know of men who pretend like they're good being single but really they want a relationship and put up with a lot to keep that relationship but Scheana can't even play it cool and at least pretend like she's got some chill. So effing embarrassing watching that girl.

[dosodog]

20 minutes ago, tvfanatic13 said:

Why are people assuming that the Lala/Ariana encounter occurred when she was dating her man. It could have been before. 

I'm going with Lala dating Herman during the encounter because it's what the pop up blurb said on the left, bottom corner of my tv during the 2nd repeat. 

Edited January 30, 2019 by dosodog

[Drogo]

Are Herman and Her Man one person or separate people?

[dosodog]

7 minutes ago, RHJunkie said:

I'll say it again, Billie was dead wrong for the way she addressed her hurt feelings from being excluded and she was dead wrong for retweeting and/or liking tweets that insinuated that Katie and the others were transphobic. That said, Billie seemed to have recognized where she faltered and she attempted to civilly address the issue but she wanted to be clear about her feelings in that moment because that was a legitimate trigger for her. Lala went from 0 to 60 without listening and Katie was completley dismissive and made herself into the victim without acknowledging the role she played in hurting someone else's feelings. It was all about her. If Katie had addressed the issue initially the way Ariana handled it, the problem would have likely de-escalated quickly. And I also felt Katie was being disingenuous by making it seem like Billie's exclusion was simply an oversight. Katie was likely still bitter about Billie's comments to Kristen at brunch and she had no desire to include her. Instead of just saying 'hey, I didn't include you because you pissed me off at brunch with you defending James and blaming Kristen for his behaviour it would have been a more fair representation of where Katie's head was at at the time. She just isn't ringing authentic in the way she's handling this situation which is disappointing because I thought she had taken real steps forward last season but I guess she still needs to work on dealing with issues when she's one of the people at the centre of those issues.  

 

I agree, Katie is trying, but she has a long way to go.  A very long way to go.

Twitter can be incredibly nasty and I really do think we missed out on a huge chunk of why there was so much anger and hurt and bitterness from everyone involved in Billiegate.

Right now, Katie can't post anything without being dragged all over the place.  People defending James, call her fat, ugly, nasty, etc.  Tell her to get off the show, get a life. I wonder how bad it was in real time.  Because it's really nasty right now.

7 minutes ago, Drogo said:

Are Herman and Her Man one person or separate people?

A fellow poster came up with Herman because it sounded weird for us to call him Myman when he wasn't Ourman.

[dosodog]

Double post 

Edited January 30, 2019 by dosodog

[Carolina Girl]

Lala is another one that can have a seat, by the way.  I took James' comments about her "getting her freak on" and "handstands" as pretty much throwwaway lines going in the mode of the locker room type talk the guys were engaging in, and several other comments about her were made by others.  On the "Vanderpumped" rewatch, though I did catch that he said to Jax, "well, YOU know", to which Jax said "no, no I don't."  Since we know Jax is an inveterate LIAR, it made me wonder (1) if Jax and Lala DID hook up and he doesn't want it to get back to Brittany, as I seem to recall the two were quasi together at the time, or (2) either he or Lala intimated to James at one point that he did.  In either event, the manner in which he described James' comments to Lala seemed downright dishonest.  He made it sound as if James did a matter of fact retelling of Lala's sexual encounters with James, which he did not do.  If Lala should be angry with anyone, it should be Sandoval.  But no, let's make James the villain in all this.  But seriously, the woman who never shuts up about sex, wears a candy penis around her neck at the skating rink and tells people to get their freak on is offended over James saying "handstands"?  Sit down, girlfriend.  

Oh, and someone asked if James wasn't holding a brandy sifter at the cigar sit down.  Yes he was, but it was empty.  He used it to do the birthday toast.  

As I've said, I'm no real fan of James; I find him narcissic and nasty, especially when he's drunk, and has a real elevated opinion of himself.  But I'm growing tired of the piling on when every one of these assholes, especially Jax and Kirsten, have a documented past of being equally horrific.  

[Wicked]

Perhaps Billie has, I don't know, but if she hasn't, she needs to apologize to Katie as publicly as she attacked her.  She put it out there on social media, she needs to fix in there too. (as much as she can, trolls gonna troll regardless)

[tvfanatic13]

1 hour ago, dosodog said:

I'm going with Lala dating Herman during the encounter because it's what the pop up blurb said on the left, bottom corner of my tv during the 2nd repeat. 

Thanks for the clarification!

1 hour ago, Drogo said:

Are Herman and Her Man one person or separate people?

The same person

[RHJunkie]

54 minutes ago, dosodog said:

I agree, Katie is trying, but she has a long way to go.  A very long way to go.

Twitter can be incredibly nasty and I really do think we missed out on a huge chunk of why there was so much anger and hurt and bitterness from everyone involved in Billiegate.

Right now, Katie can't post anything without being dragged all over the place.  People defending James, call her fat, ugly, nasty, etc.  Tell her to get off the show, get a life. I wonder how bad it was in real time.  Because it's really nasty right now.

1

I don't know what Billie or Katie has said via social media as I don't follow or keep up with either but I think both should be apologizing to each other because both were hurt by actions of the other. Billie isn't justified in insinuating an unfair label onto someone just because she was reacting out of hurt. I think Billie has attempted to address her feelings first in order for them to be acknowledged before she apologizes for how her part came across but wrong is wrong. If either one of them is the bigger person, they should be willing to apologize without the condition of receiving an apology first. They were both wrong and they both need to own it.