S01.E08: This Young Woman Fought Like Hell

[MerBearStare]

1 hour ago, newyawk said:

Why should she stop? Liz Taylor didn't stop after 7 marriages.  Other than money and power, the desire for love is the most driving force there is.

None of Liz Taylor's husbands tried to murder one of her kids. 

The common denominator in all of Debra's failed marriages is Debra. Like others have said, she needs therapy to address the fact that she ignored SO MANY warning signs, that she chose a man over her kids, that she was ok with John threatening to shoot her daughter, that even after her junkie conman husband literally tried to murder her daughter she still wanted to know if their relationship was real ("He looks happy, right?" or whatever she said when she found the wedding photo). She needs to work on herself first. 

Edited January 15, 2019 by MerBearStare

[lezlers]

9 hours ago, DrivingSideways said:

Thank you!  This enraged me too!  Your daughter just barely survived an attack by a grown ass man, and has KILLED SOMEONE.  Can you give her a minute to breathe, you selfish bitch?

Does the hospital really allow the dog to stay with her?  Because I thought that was awesome.  Terra and the dog are the only ones I don't despise on this show.  

Yeah, there's actually a picture out there with the real Terra in the hospital with the dog on her bed.  It's really sweet.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

1 hour ago, Empress1 said:

Yeah, I kept waiting for Terra to mention The Walking Dead and/or zombies during the show. Then when she threw it in as she was talking to the cop I was like "Oh, THAT'S how they're gonna shoehorn it in?"

It was mentioned in the first episode. Terra and her boyfriend were walking their dog to Debra's house for Thanksgiving and talking about the zombie apocalypse. In the second episode, Debra also mentioned that Terra was always talking about zombies (this was in reference to why Debra had "a little bit of cash" stashed at the house for emegencies).

[newyawk]

29 minutes ago, MerBearStare said:

None of Liz Taylor's husbands tried to murder one of her kids. 

The common denominator in all of Debra's failed marriages is Debra. Like others have said, she needs therapy to address the fact that she ignored SO MANY warning signs, that she chose a man over her kids, that she was ok with John threatening to shoot her daughter, that even after her junkie conman husband literally tried to murder her daughter she still wanted to know if their relationship was real ("He looks happy, right?" or whatever she said when she found the wedding photo). She needs to work on herself first. 

 

No doubt she needs to work on herself, but I was responding to someone saying that she just needed to stop dating, which is ludicrous.

In response to lezlers, Terra was hospitalized. She was not under arrest, nor was she in police custody. Had the police decided to press charges, which they declined to do, she would then have been arrested and placed into custody. Thus, the cops were not required to read her her Miranda rights. 

Edited January 15, 2019 by newyawk

[Neurochick]

I enjoyed this show.  Human beings are complicated, we’re not per, we do dumb shit because we’re imperfect humans.  People fall in love with people they shouldn’t fall for.  We’re not robots.  It’s possible for a person to be great in business and dumb in relationships. Happens all the time because we’re not robots.

[HunterHunted]

10 minutes ago, lezlers said:

Not to nitpick but Terra was absolutely in custody for purposes of Miranda at that point.  She was not free to walk out of that hospital until she was discharged.  And we don't know if she was detained or not at that point, I'm guessing she was.  Before a line of questioning like that, she absolutely should have been Mirandized.  At the time of questioning someone had been brutally assaulted and was on life support at the hands of someone else.  That, by itself, creates reasonable suspicion that a crime has occurred independent of whether an affirmative defense  to that possible crime might exist.  So we have a person who put someone else in the hospital on life support.  That person is now a patient at the hospital and has not been discharged.  There is a police officer at her bedside asking her questions about the incident.  That is a textbook situation that would require her Miranda rights being read if for no other reason that to cover the officer's ass. 

I need to clarify a couple of things. My point wasn't to make a judgment about whether the police should have Mirandized Terra or if she was in custody, but to explain to previous posters who thought that the police always have to Mirandize a person before speaking to them and that person's lawyer has to always be present that this is simply not true. And as an attorney, you know that. I was simply explaining why we may or may not have seen some of the things we typically associate with police on tv.

I never said that Terra was or wasn't in custody. I explained the reasons that police might or might not give Terra a Miranda warning. Many departments give it as a matter of course whenever there is a serious injury or death. It's a decent CYA strategy. However, there are strategic reason why an investigator might choose not to give the warning. From the moment someone came to help Terra, she literally could not stop talking. Sometimes stopping to explain their Miranda rights can break the flow of that conversation. An investigator may make the strategic decision to not interrupt that flow. And my point is that people shouldn't rely on tv tropes even if they are grounded in fact and law if they find themselves in trouble in the real world. 

I also explained that even if they had Mirandized Terra, she never seemed to invoke her right to counsel and continued to answer questions. So one can't simply use it as a shield if they don't really understand how it works. Heck, you can invoke your right to counsel and still continue to babble away unsolicited by the police.

Finally being discharged from a hospital is entirely separate from being in police custody. Admission and discharge from a hospital has nothing to do with being in police custody; they have literally nothing to do with each other. Without an arrest, a lawfully executed emergency detention order by law enforcement, or a court order, a hospital cannot keep you. You are fully free to walk out the door. It's called a discharge against medical advice. I don't want to say that people do it all the time, but it happens often enough that there is a term and reporting codes for it. I do practice health law. This is something I'm knowledgeable about although the details of criminal law aren't my areas of expertise.

[absolutelyido]

20 hours ago, DrivingSideways said:

This was beyond cheesy, sub-Lifetime level viewing.  Wouldn't have believed it if it wasn't true.  But this episode in particularly was incredibly corny in the pacing, filming, acting, all of it. 

Oh, and I strongly dislike Debra Newell.  Seeing the resolution of this story, and then remembering her giggling behind the bar on Andy Cohen's cheesy talk show?   Awful.  I hope she has put herself on a moratorium from dating ever again, because her instincts cannot be trusted.

When Debra heard that John was still on dating sites, I couldn't help but wonder if she got a pang of jealousy.  She was probably about to run back into his arms.  Also, why didn't she tell the doctors to unplug John?  She couldn't even end it at that point.

Not sure why I'm having such an intensely negative reaction to this show.  But it really took my less than flattering opinion of Debra and dropped it way lower than expected.

I enjoyed Debra overhearing what an idiot she was in the bathroom at the end, although I would have preferred the attorneys to use stronger language to describe how less than smart she is.  And I kept waiting for Jean Smart to suggest they all take flowers to John's grave, right after she completely absolved Debra of any blame in the situation.

It wouldn't have surprised me if Debra had sat in vigil at John's deathbed. Because, you know, he looked so happy when they got married. And the romance!

10 hours ago, DrivingSideways said:

What was with the scene of Terra's boss (?) questioning her about her weekend activities?  Was she set up to do that by DJ?  Did I blink and miss something?  It seemed disconnected from the rest of the show.

Terra is EXTREMELY lucky.  She's lucky John attacked her in broad daylight, she's lucky she had the dog helping her (from what was on the show, that dog saved her life, not sure if it was fictionalized).

I think whoever wrote this script just rushed this last episode.  Roni and Terra both sounded insane and incoherent... with Terra it could definitely be forgiven, but Roni was so extremely rude to her Uber driver, and then sounded like a crazy person at the end rattling off a list of names and trying to enter a building that for all the driver knew, could be a stranger.  And what kind of power move was it when she jumps into the Uber and talks for about ten minutes in her horrible voice about how she doesn't want to be spoken to?  First of all - shut up, and don't flatter yourself; second of all - I have to admire her delusion to order everyone around as if she's a captain of industry or Miranda Priestly, when she is... not.

I hate to trash the victims, but Debra's assault on her family only continued when she immediately called the LA Times - she opened up her family to ridicule and questioning.  I get an uncomfortable famewhore vibes from her.  Glad to be done with this story.

I found this whole episode so odd. John was barely in it. All the time spend with Ronnie and the Uber driver was just dumb. I think the revisiting of prior events in John's life that took up the first half of the last episode would have worked better in this episode. Showing all the despicable things he had been doing, as they did in the revisit, would have led better into his attack on Terra, as it showed that he really was capable of anything. 

[Dance4Life]

2 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

No. It's not great publicity for Chanel to be synonymous with a woman too dumb to realize she was being conned her grifter husband. If they were sincerely going to place their product in this show, it would be limited to Ronnie because she was the most admirable of all of the women in the Newell circle. The reality is that Debra had a ton of money, she lived in a very material wealth obsessed community, and she happily and freely spent her money on expensive labeled items. Her designer purses, expensive cars, and any other signifiers of wealth that we saw in the show were likely included because it was an accurate reflection of her life.

You can file, but you can also be penalized for filing a lawsuit in bad faith. Many lawyers don't like doing this because it really can imperil their licenses. You can't just file a lawsuit to harass someone and think that you won't end up paying damages and the other side's fees. By most accounts, John retained attorneys for claims with merit. Once he received a settlement, he'd begin a pro se action against the attorney. Courts tend to give pro se parties a lot of latitude because they don't have licensed counsel assisting them. Even if his claims weren't meritorious he'd get a wider berth to continue to harass his attorney and make them miserable. While they were dealing this nonsense, he'd use the confusion and exasperation as a cover to disappear.

I don't think you understood my example. Although the divorce process had begun, it is halted and terminated the moment one of the parties (my uncle in my example and John Meehan in this case) dies. Debra didn't get a divorce settlement nor could John's kids claim they were entitled to his "divorce settlement" because there legally was no such thing. Debra and his kids got what they were entitled to under the law as the spouse and the heirs of someone, John, who died without a will. That's it. Furthermore, his kids can't just sue. They can sue if they believe Debra has hidden or destroyed a valid will. They can sue if they believe she's hiding or misrepresenting John's assets from before their marriage. His children are entitled to nothing from his community property arising from his marriage to Debra as he had absolutely no will or pre or post nuptial document indicating that there should be a deviation the statutory allocation. I'm not really going to say any more because it's not germane.

 

Ok.  I don’t like these broad comments because they confuse women then it makes them afraid to seek help.  Did you read my story?  My dad died while my parents were getting divorced.  My mom didn’t get to keep everything just because my dad died.  Everything my dad was entitled to in the divorce went to me plus then some. 

 

People can make legal claims if they are entitled to my dad’s money.  We even had to put an announcement in the newspaper and wait.

 

 I am not sure why you are saying people can’t file claims.  If people do file claims the court will see it as harassment and punish you. Isn’t that the point of a lawsuit? To explore if you are entitled to money.  I think your wording is a little harsh and one size fits all!  Lol!  

 

If his children want to poke about their dad’s business beyond that shitty trailer which includes his marriage.....they lawfully can.  

Just because people don’t leave a will it doesn’t mean their children get nothing. People collect on these cases all the time.  It just takes longer and more expensive.

 

If the children did come around.....Debra can either offer them money....or, tell them....bite me, take me to court!

This is not harassment.

 

This is the court’s job.  Get to work!!!

 

Let’s agree to disagree to keep the board clean.

Edited January 15, 2019 by Dance4Life

[HunterHunted]

10 minutes ago, Dance4Life said:

Ok.  I don’t like these broad comments because they confuse women then it makes them afraid to seek help.  Did you read my story?  My dad died while my parents were getting divorced.  My mom didn’t get to keep everything just because my dad died.  Everything my dad was entitled to in the divorce went to me plus then some. 

People can make legal claims if they are entitled to my dad’s money.  We even had to put an announcement in the newspaper and wait.

 I am not sure why you are saying people can’t file claims.  If people do file claims the court will see it as harassment and punish you. Isn’t that the point of a lawsuit? To explore if you are entitled to money.  I think your wording is a little harsh and one size fits all!  Lol!  

If his children want to poke about their dad’s business beyond that shitty trailer which includes his marriage.....they lawfully can.  

Just because people don’t leave a will it doesn’t mean their children get nothing. People collect on these cases all the time.  It just takes longer and more expensive.

If the children did come around.....Debra can either offer them money....or, tell them....bite me, take me to court!

This is not harassment.

This is the court’s job.  Get to work!!!

I have said none of this. It's pretty clear you've misunderstood my prior posts. We can take it to small talk or DM, but it's not relevant to discussion of the episode.

[Dance4Life]

41 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

I have said none of this. It's pretty clear you've misunderstood my prior posts. We can take it to small talk or DM, but it's not relevant to discussion of the episode.

 Didn’t see you quote this part.  ‘Let’s agree to disagree to keep the board clean.’

 

No mas!  Ok?  I am fine talking about other shows on other topics....just not this anymore because this is what other are seeing when they read our posts. 

[msblossom]

The first episode was the best and went downhill from there. For me, the way this series was produced and all the jumping back and forth from past to present was clumsy and hard to watch. I’m glad this series is over and that both daughters survived the hell their mother put them through. I hope the youngest daughter is able to work through the trauma, heal and find her place in whatever makes her happy. 

Edited January 15, 2019 by msblossom

[chocolatine]

4 hours ago, 65mickey said:

This is just saying that she can't be happy and fulfilled without a man.

Judging by the four failed marriages - and who knows how many relationships - prior to meeting John, she can't be happy and fulfilled *with* a man either. I don't think she's actually interested in a real-world (i.e. mundane) relationship; she wants the "fairytale" where a handsome man anticipates her every need and worships the ground she walks on. Most other women find daily smoothies and water temperature adjustments creepy and stifling, but she ate it all up.

[CaliCheeseSucks]

5 hours ago, Empress1 said:

Yeah, I kept waiting for Terra to mention The Walking Dead and/or zombies during the show. Then when she threw it in as she was talking to the cop I was like "Oh, THAT'S how they're gonna shoehorn it in?"

It was actually mentioned in E1 or 2... Terra and her boyfriend are walking (with her dog) up to the new digs Debra and John have moved into, and Terra is talking about zombie killing on the way. When they get to the door, John is pushing a mattress inside and basically tells them both to get lost.

I don't think Debra sought the fame that the podcast would bring (who could have known that anyways?) but my sense - from this series, the interviews around it and now the Oxygen special - is that attention the story is getting her is akin to the attention John was giving her. She's a woman who lives for attention, regardless of how positive or negative. I think many people might agree to a podcast/newspaper story and/or movie adaptation without it becoming their new full-time occupation. I don't think Debra is that person.

[yourmomiseasy]

On 1/13/2019 at 8:33 PM, Madding crowd said:

Here they had Terra tell the cop John was trying to take her mother away and they didn’t emphasize the self defense angle. 

 

I might be misremembering, but I'm pretty sure this is true to life according to the podcast.

On 1/13/2019 at 9:28 PM, Lady of nod said:

I'm sorry, but this show was really disappointing to me. I liked the first episode all right but it went downhill after that. It was too long. Much of it was boring. I thought the acting sucked (except for Eric Bana). I don't get all the Connie Britton love - God that voice and puppy dog looks. I thought the podcast was great - as said upthread - this was a Lifetime movie.

Watching the Real Dirty John (not sure of title) on oxygen now. Much better.

Did enjoy watching Terra stab that bastard though. 

The breathy giggly voice and puppy dog eyes are all Debra.  Connie is just doing a fabulous job of portraying her.

 

13 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

Unless they are in the same room, Debra already isn't able to"track her"--and even if she were, what is Debra able to do do to protect her that Terra, the adult, couldn't do herself?  

We don't know what--or if--she'd be drinking or whatever.  And if it's like Coachella, then, like I said, good luck to DJ in even finding her among the 12 bazillion people there.

They are adults! And, no, as dumb as she was, she did not "invite" this into her life. Ugh.

I think they were trying to make it seem like she was going to the Stagecoach Festival, which is like Coachella, but about half the size and country music.  As someone else said, she was really just going to a concert at Irvine Meadows.  It's an amphitheater of fairly decent size.  I don't think it holds as much as a stadium, but it's pretty big, so maybe like 20k people. 

12 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

He also met this wealthy author who had just had brain surgery. He pretended to be her anesthesiologist. They started dating. He convinced her to transfer $37 million into his accounts until one of her friends stepped in and stopped her from going through with it.

I feel like you're extra vulnerable after surgery because drugs.  I can only imagine that brain surgery can in instances make one even more vulnerable.  

8 hours ago, newyawk said:

Why should she stop? Liz Taylor didn't stop after 7 marriages.  Other than money and power, the desire for love is the most driving force there is.

Shes dangerously bad at it and for her it doesn't seem like practice is making perfect.  

8 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

The daughter was 25, and seemingly self supporting ( the age matters more) . She didn’t live with Debra. Debra couldn’t have stopped her from going to the festival.    I’ve read about people  who have tried to stop their daughters wedding by preventing her getting to the ceremony and have landed in serious legal trouble.  

I felt the attack scene was badly done.  Based on Terra’s injuries as shown, her self defense was pretty over the top by the time she got done.  In real life, she was much more badly injured and I’m guessing the attack wasn’t stopped so quickly.   

Its hard to know what parts of this show were real and what was drama. I cannot imagine a Lyft or Uber driver doing any of that.  Especially the stay in front of the apartment building all night. 

You have to wonder what caused John to attack Terra. What did he gain? On the other hand- we see idiot exes ( of either gender) attacking their supposed love, or that loves’ new partner for unknown reasons a lot. 

Just based on personality, we were shown that he was extremely vindictive and was taught by his dad that when someone pisses you off you go after their family.  That combine with him being a shitbag is alone enough to make it make sense to me.  According to the Oxygen special the theory among those involved is that he was going to use Terra to lure Debra and then kill them both.  The change from psychological warfare to physical was attributed to his failing health.

[talktoomuch]

9 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I enjoyed this show.  Human beings are complicated, we’re not per, we do dumb shit because we’re imperfect humans.  People fall in love with people they shouldn’t fall for.  We’re not robots.  It’s possible for a person to be great in business and dumb in relationships. Happens all the time because we’re not robots.

We all assume that Debra was great in business because she was very wealthy and had been in business a long time. But the lack of information on any of her past marriages coupled with her appalling lack of her refusal to acknowledge the actual facts she and her daughter's PI discovered lead me to believe there is no way she built and sustained a successful business on her own. I am convinced one of her wealthy ex-husbands bought her that business and left her with all that money. Or maybe a combination of wealthy ex-husbands and society contacts who keep using her business because "they" all do.

What I'm saying is, the decisions and acumen one displays as a successful business owner are not completely divorced from decisions and acumen about love. The same instincts that make one good at business still exist in the same brain. It is a willful override to ignore and abandon them because "this is love" and "it's different!"

So here, either Debra consistently and willfully pushed away her good instincts in the face of objectively strong evidence of Dirty John's true nature (his record, his lying about his profession, his drug use, his nastiness and threats to her family), or she doesn't really have those instincts to begin with. Her track record with men indicates she doesn't. And we don't have enough information about her real track record in business to determine if she has them there either. We just know she's rich with a long-running business. Which, in the So Cal society circles she moves in could truly mean that "success" was bought and paid for by someone else.

[IDreamofJoaquin]

Very anti-climactic ending.  While reading through the forum throughout the show I wasn't sure why the zombie apocalypse kept being brought up.  Now I know.  How funny that saved her life.  

Debra should be ashamed of herself that her daughter has to live the rest of her life having killed someone and that could have been avoided if Debra wasn't such a stupid twat waffle. 

[Ninny]

18 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

Unless they are in the same room, Debra already isn't able to"track her"--and even if she were, what is Debra able to do do to protect her that Terra, the adult, couldn't do herself?  

We don't know what--or if--she'd be drinking or whatever.  And if it's like Coachella, then, like I said, good luck to DJ in even finding her among the 12 bazillion people there.

They are adults! And, no, as dumb as she was, she did not "invite" this into her life. Ugh.

They may have been adults but, a mother's instinct is to protect her children - no matter how old they are.

[4N6MAL]

21 hours ago, EdnasEdibles said:

In reality I think she stabbed John 13 times and on this it was like twice.

I knew there were supposed to be 13 stab wounds and I counted each and every one that she put into that bastard! Lucky #13 was right to the eye!

[Mr. Miner]

21 hours ago, DrivingSideways said:

I hate to trash the victims, but Debra's assault on her family only continued when she immediately called the LA Times - she opened up her family to ridicule and questioning.  I get an uncomfortable famewhore vibes from her.  Glad to be done with this story.

I hate these people so much that I haven't even watched the finale. If this was fiction and not a true story. My rewrite would include two more deaths, Debra and her mother.

[TattleTeeny]

57 minutes ago, Ninny said:

They may have been adults but, a mother's instinct is to protect her children - no matter how old they are.

Agree, and I have not once said otherwise. But considering Debra and her less than stellar instincts, she probably thought she already was doing everything she could (and, again, considering Debra, I can't see what difference her immediate presence would have made anyway). Also, let's consider that the adult chicks, with lives, autonomy, and agency of their own, maybe wanted to carry on with their lives as best they could and not hide out with their mother; if they'd wanted to do the latter (or if they wanted matching wigs, haha!), they would have likely said so. Clearly they did not, as they were carrying on in their own respective residences and even the meeker of the two had plans to go to some event. 

Edited January 15, 2019 by TattleTeeny

[TattleTeeny]

10 hours ago, Dance4Life said:

 Didn’t see you quote this part.  ‘Let’s agree to disagree to keep the board clean.’

 

No mas!  Ok?  I am fine talking about other shows on other topics....just not this anymore because this is what other are seeing when they read our posts. 

As an aside, this fucking image makes me ill.

[DrSparkles]

13 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

...I think he thought Terra was most vulnerable. Veronica, Debra's son, and Debra's nephew were openly suspicious and antagonistic towards him. I think he knew that there was a decent chance that the guys might kill him if he attacked them. Veronica, while small, HATED him. She was going to go honey badger on him and there was a solid chance that she'd beat him off of her. If he attacked Debra, Veronica was never ever ever going to let it go and she was going to hunt him to the ends of the earth. I think he went after Terra because he thought she'd be docile and easy to subdue. I believe all of the Newells and the LA times writer think John was hoping to ransom Terra back to Debra...

DAMN! Ransom her, but also kill her? Bc he dug that grave in the desert?!

[Vivigirl10]

Quote

It wouldn't have surprised me if Debra had sat in vigil at John's deathbed.

Or that Grandma Dearest hadn't joined the vigil all while ignoring Terra, because, forgiveness you know.  

[GracieK]

Regarding Debra being stupid in love and smart in business... I think she just has drive to get what she wants.  If the scene regarding her negotiation to obtain the waterfront property was any indication, she knows how to be no nonsense and very savvy to negotiate for whatever goal she has in mind.  I'm sure the same is true for her business especially as that is where her natural talent seemingly lies.  She wanted to be with John.. she was determined to be with John.. she loved his attention, she loved his doting, she loved the "romance" and she was going to make it work despite the warning signs.... because when it comes to love and relationships, she doesn't make the intelligent decisions she makes in business where she can be less emotional.  I think part of this was brought about by being raised by a mother who clearly put having a man in your life on a pedestal... that you aren't worthy without that, and that unhealthy, stalking, overbearing behavior is really just code for "that's how much he loves you".  

[gotta watch]

I thought the actress who played Terra played that scene perfectly. Her survival instinct kicked in when John attacked her and she did everything that was necessary to Not be a victim. When she goes into shock afterwards, thinking she'd killed him, man that gave me chills. I haven't seen anything like this in real life, but that is exactly how I would expect a person in Terra's position would act. 
God I hope that Debra and her daughters are doing therapy, both group and individual.

[vmcd88]

OMG that scene where John attacks Terra was so intense.  I had to look away.  I knew it was coming but I still was not prepared for it.  I'm sure John though Terra would be an easy victim.  Boy did he underestimate her.  This story is so damn crazy and I was fascinated every step of the way.   

[AnnieHeights]

I enjoyed this series.  I ended up really liking Veronica.  I have a friend that is similar in personality (not nearly as privileged) and she will tell it like it is regardless which obviously can rub people the wrong way but there is nobody more loyal than her and she has your back for life if she likes you.  Veronica seems to be the same type of person.  Terra was extremely lucky and I was in awe of how her survival instincts kicked in when it came down to her or John.  I am sure she still has a lot of issues from this but in my book she is a total hero and probably freed more people than she will ever know from the terror of that man.  Debra......I am really torn here....given the era she was raised in and her family background you can see where she willfully chose to ignore some of those neon red flags but after 4 marriages already under her belt marrying for the fifth time after two months is ludicrous......no matter how much someone romances you in the beginning.  I personally would be very suspicious of someone telling me they loved me so soon and the term 'soul mate' needs to be taken out of our vocabulary.  I agree with a previous poster who said she is in love with the idea of love.               

[kicksave]

16 hours ago, newyawk said:

Why should she stop? Liz Taylor didn't stop after 7 marriages.  Other than money and power, the desire for love is the most driving force there is.

I don't think using Liz Taylor as an example of looking for love and having seven marriages is really a good one...I agree with the poster that suggested Debra needed intensive therapy before putting her feet in the dating pond again. Any woman who puts a man before her children has issues. And in this case, not only did she dump her kids and not listen to them, after she realized John was a fraud SHE WENT BACK TO HIM! She's in love with love...she loves the idea of love and being a "couple"...there's a certain immaturity about her, almost like a young teenager who believes she's in love with her first boyfriend who is manipulating her to have sex. She needs therapy and time alone. She needs to learn to be alone and not hate it. She's had five marriages and almost lost her life and her daughter's life...take a break and work on yourself and find some inner peace and joy. She really needs to believe that she doesn't need man to complete her. If she meets someone and decides to date him, then please, please, please Google him or hire someone to look into his background before going forward. We all should learn from our mistakes...Debra is no exception.

[Ninny]

16 hours ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

I just can’t get over Debra not kicking John’s ass to the curb after his first “joke” about putting a bullet in her daughter’s head. That alone would have earned him a world of hurt from me. 

Yep.  That's what did it for me and the way she giggled on the podcast when she talked about it.  I would have shown him the door so fast his head would be spinning.  That pretty much told me all I needed to know about Debra.

[Pickles]

I wonder what Debra would have done if John survived? Would she have nursed him back to health? I almost believe she would.

[Vivigirl10]

I wonder what the timeline was for Debra's multiple marriages and how they fell in line with her children still being young and in her home?  It must have been difficult to have had a revolving door of new "Daddies".  I shudder to think that Debra could have been one of those women to allow a child abuser/molester into her home and then side with the man when her children made accusations.

Again I'll say, she's mighty lucky her kids seem to have inherited the family forgiveness gene.  I think many would have (rightly so) estranged themselves from such a mother.  

[chocolatine]

34 minutes ago, Kiki620 said:

I wonder what the timeline was for Debra's multiple marriages and how they fell in line with her children still being young and in her home?  It must have been difficult to have had a revolving door of new "Daddies".  I shudder to think that Debra could have been one of those women to allow a child abuser/molester into her home and then side with the man when her children made accusations.

In the Christmas episode, during the mother-daughter therapy session, Terra talked about the revolving door of husbands/boyfriends and said that it was terrible for her to get attached to someone over and over only to have them leave. There was no mention of abuse or molestation, but when you bring that many men into a home with young girls, the likelihood of it happening definitely goes up. (I shudder to think what Arlane's reaction would have been if it had happened. She'd probably "forgive" the molester in a heartbeat and urge Debra to do so as well.)

[Jillybean]

On that topic, how many children does Debra have? I went creeping on her Facebook profile and she had a photo of three blonde daughters, none of them Jacquelyn or Terra. 

Edited January 15, 2019 by Jillybean

[Tabbygirl521]

6 hours ago, Ninny said:

Yep.  That's what did it for me and the way she giggled on the podcast when she talked about it.  I would have shown him the door so fast his head would be spinning.  That pretty much told me all I needed to know about Debra.

Then I watched the Oxygen special where they talked to the real Debra and she mentioned this THIRD mention of killing her daughter as being “the last straw.” Sheesh. 

[seacliffsal]

I agree that Debra wanted a "fairy tale" romance.  This became clear when she was talking to her mother (?) and said that Jon just knew what she wanted whereas her other husbands told her that if she had only told them what she wanted, they would have done it.  This is an expectation that I just really dislike-the assumption that if someone loves you or cares for you, they will 'automatically' know what you want.  This is what sealed the romance with Jon for her, and it's what she is still looking for.  Rather than communicate her needs, she expects others to just know them. 

I feel sorry for the children-especially Terra (or whatever her real name is).  While healing from her PTSD, the events of her past and the attack are all over various media outlets.   

[newyawk]

12 hours ago, kicksave said:

I don't think using Liz Taylor as an example of looking for love and having seven marriages is really a good one....

It was appropriate in that I was responding to someone who was criticizing Debra for having married 5 times, and who was saying she just needed to stop dating. 

[nexxie]

That calm detached voice Connie used throughout this show seemed completely unrealistic to me, and Veronica was played in such an unlikable way. Are the real people like this or what?

(I really hope Debra didn’t call the reporter back without discussing it with her daughters first.)

Edited January 16, 2019 by nexxie

[TattleTeeny]

13 minutes ago, nexxie said:

That calm detached voice Connie used throughout this show seemed completely unrealistic to me, and Veronica was played in such an unlikable way. Are the real people like this or what?

Kind of, I guess--though the way Terra talks is, unfortunately, more annoying in real life. 

[lezlers]

On ‎1‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 7:10 PM, HunterHunted said:

I need to clarify a couple of things. My point wasn't to make a judgment about whether the police should have Mirandized Terra or if she was in custody, but to explain to previous posters who thought that the police always have to Mirandize a person before speaking to them and that person's lawyer has to always be present that this is simply not true. And as an attorney, you know that. I was simply explaining why we may or may not have seen some of the things we typically associate with police on tv.

I never said that Terra was or wasn't in custody. I explained the reasons that police might or might not give Terra a Miranda warning. Many departments give it as a matter of course whenever there is a serious injury or death. It's a decent CYA strategy. However, there are strategic reason why an investigator might choose not to give the warning. From the moment someone came to help Terra, she literally could not stop talking. Sometimes stopping to explain their Miranda rights can break the flow of that conversation. An investigator may make the strategic decision to not interrupt that flow. And my point is that people shouldn't rely on tv tropes even if they are grounded in fact and law if they find themselves in trouble in the real world. 

I also explained that even if they had Mirandized Terra, she never seemed to invoke her right to counsel and continued to answer questions. So one can't simply use it as a shield if they don't really understand how it works. Heck, you can invoke your right to counsel and still continue to babble away unsolicited by the police.

Finally being discharged from a hospital is entirely separate from being in police custody. Admission and discharge from a hospital has nothing to do with being in police custody; they have literally nothing to do with each other. Without an arrest, a lawfully executed emergency detention order by law enforcement, or a court order, a hospital cannot keep you. You are fully free to walk out the door. It's called a discharge against medical advice. I don't want to say that people do it all the time, but it happens often enough that there is a term and reporting codes for it. I do practice health law. This is something I'm knowledgeable about although the details of criminal law aren't my areas of expertise.

As to your last paragraph, I totally agree and get that.   I'm a defense attorney so I'm naturally always formulating arguments to show why someone isn't free to leave with respect to Miranda.  The standard isn't whether or not a person COULD leave, it's whether or not a reasonable person would FEEL FREE to leave.  I don't think a reasonable person, under those circumstances, would think they could just say "I'm leaving" get up and try to walk out.  I think we agree on more than it appears.  :) 

Edited January 16, 2019 by lezlers

[nexxie]

15 hours ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

Then I watched the Oxygen special where they talked to the real Debra and she mentioned this THIRD mention of killing her daughter as being “the last straw.” Sheesh. 

Wow - nice parenting!

[kicksave]

12 hours ago, newyawk said:

It was appropriate in that I was responding to someone who was criticizing Debra for having married 5 times, and who was saying she just needed to stop dating. 

Liz wasn't looking for love...she married men instead of living with them first. She had many substance abuse issues and it clouded her judgement. The only men she truly loved were Mike Todd (he was the love of her life) and Richard Burton. Her first marriage to Conrad Hilton, Jr. was a disaster. He physically and emotionally abused her... she was barely 18 when she married him and did not have much experience in relationships. I think her predilection for marriage was another addiction for her. If Mike Todd hadn't died at such early age I think she would have stayed married to him until her death. 

[teapot]

On 1/14/2019 at 1:30 PM, Empress1 said:

Yeah, it's not about online dating at all. I can think of at least six married couples I know personally off the top of my head who met online; I'v been a bridesmaid in several Match.com weddings. It's increasingly become how people meet nowadays, at least people in my generation (I'm on the older end of the millennial generation). (I ran into a high school classmate at a mutual friend's party last year and she was newly married. Her husband was there too. I asked how they met and he said "How does anybody meet these days?" and mimed typing.)

I asked my boy-child that once, about dating apps.  "did your friends talk you into it?  how do you decide that's what you wanna do?  it's crazy!"  (mind you I'm a thousand & I realize that's the way the world works, it's just crazy to me who has been w/my mister since 1986.  anyway...)

his response?  "THAT's CRAZY?  You guys would talk to TOTAL STRANGERS!"

touche'

[Mahamid Frauded Me]

On 1/14/2019 at 7:05 PM, MerBearStare said:

None of Liz Taylor's husbands tried to murder one of her kids. 

The common denominator in all of Debra's failed marriages is Debra. Like others have said, she needs therapy to address the fact that she ignored SO MANY warning signs, that she chose a man over her kids, that she was ok with John threatening to shoot her daughter, that even after her junkie conman husband literally tried to murder her daughter she still wanted to know if their relationship was real ("He looks happy, right?" or whatever she said when she found the wedding photo). She needs to work on herself first. 

Maybe if she had a hunky therapist like him, he would tell her to just stay single and date.  I have a friend who reminds me of dum-dum Deb, she goes from relationship to relationship ( not great ones to start either) because she doesn't want to be alone, she just keeps winding up with these duds who have drinking, money or baby mama drama.

[crgirl412]

22 minutes ago, Mahamid Frauded Me said:

Maybe if she had a hunky therapist like him, he would tell her to just stay single and date.  I have a friend who reminds me of dum-dum Deb, she goes from relationship to relationship ( not great ones to start either) because she doesn't want to be alone, she just keeps winding up with these duds who have drinking, money or baby mama drama.

I lol'd while reading your post about your friend and Deb being dumb as you possibly have the winner of the 'dumbest one award' as your avatar/username!  No one could ever make up a character like Danielle! 

[hottesthw]

21 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

 

I feel sorry for the children-especially Terra (or whatever her real name is).  While healing from her PTSD, the events of her past and the attack are all over various media outlets.   

Don't feel too bad. She seems to be enjoying the fame.

[MaryPatShelby]

On 1/13/2019 at 11:28 PM, Lady of nod said:

I don't get all the Connie Britton love - God that voice and puppy dog looks. 

 

Connie was playing a role. I think she did a good job if you don't get why people love her!

I've read all the comments and I still don't know why John was digging a hole, and why that hole had to be in an exact location. Anyone?

[Starlight925]

2 hours ago, MaryPatShelby said:

I've read all the comments and I still don't know why John was digging a hole, and why that hole had to be in an exact location. Anyone?

One theory the police had:

This wasn't shown, but what they found in John's car was alarming.  Zip ties and the chemicals to make chloroform, plus more knives.  It could be that he wanted to kidnap Terra, not kill her, using the knife in his hand as his way to scare her.  Once in his car, he was going to zip tie her, put her to sleep with chloroform, and bring her to that hole to then record it & show Debra, at which time he'd demand she transfer her entire life savings.  Since he was digging in the middle of the desert, there would obviously be no way for police to find him.  

Remember they showed him disconnecting the brake lights?  This I guess was so that she couldn't do anything, if she was in the trunk and awoke from the chloroform, to signal drivers.

Edited January 17, 2019 by Sterling

[MaryPatShelby]

Thank you!  Funny though, I thought he was reconnecting the taillights, knowing that Veronica would describe his vehicle to Terra and Debra as having no taillights.  So when they saw a vehicle that might have been his, they would disregard it if it had working taillights.

[Starlight925]

2 hours ago, MaryPatShelby said:

Thank you!  Funny though, I thought he was reconnecting the taillights, knowing that Veronica would describe his vehicle to Terra and Debra as having no taillights.  So when they saw a vehicle that might have been his, they would disregard it if it had working taillights.

Another great theory about the taillights!

[CaliCheeseSucks]

On 1/16/2019 at 10:19 PM, hottesthw said:

Don't feel too bad. She seems to be enjoying the fame.

I think that's a bit harsh. Terra was almost murdered and - like the episode title says - fought like hell to live. She didn't ask to be a part of her mother's screwy relationship with John Meehan and, at least to me, she's the biggest victim in his predatory attack on her family. I hope she's finding some peace through talking about her experience. I honestly don't judge her.

Debra, on the other hand....