S03.E09: Don't Let the Good Life Pass You By

[Rockstar99435]

13 hours ago, phalange said:

So happy that Eleanor was finally able to tell Chidi about them being in love in the afterlife and that she might still be in love with him now. As soon as she realized he was being dragged to the door, she jumped right over the bar to help him.

Something tells me that this wasn't Eleanor's first bar fight.

I loved everything about this episode. Janet was the best. Jason's pool game was the best. The snail funeral was the best. Everything was the best. 

Poor Doug. He tried so hard to be good, but like Gen said in an earlier episode, you have to do good just to do good and not for any kind of moral dessert. Doug is only doing good in order to be rewarded. Plus, some of his "good deeds" weren't very good. I don't think that giving a child everything he wants with no limits just to make him happy is adding Good to the world, but the opposite. And shoving 70+ dogs and wolves into a small enclosure can't be good for them either, especially when you decide to leave them for over 3 weeks so you can relieve your guilt about stepping on a single snail.

[ClareWalks]

9 minutes ago, Rockstar99435 said:

And shoving 70+ dogs and wolves into a small enclosure can't be good for them either, especially when you decide to leave them for over 3 weeks so you can relieve your guilt about stepping on a single snail.

I was wondering WTF the stray dogs are eating. Surely not just lentils and radishes. Seems like a recipe for dog-fights.

[DoubleUTeeEff]

12 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

Being environmentally conscious is nice and all, but it doesn't appear he's actually having much of a positive effect on other people's lives.

Hmmm...I'd argue that since humans needs a habitable place to live in, protecting the environment is probably the number one way to positively affect other people's lives. It not only helps people alive today but all of future humankind. Of course, it's debatable how much Doug is really doing to help environmentally.

I think if there is a Good Place, it's something that people create for themselves--maybe with the help of a Good Place Janet. I don't think you can't really trust what the demons think the Good Place is because they don't know what it takes to get there. I don't think anybody but the people who make it there do. And I'm not even convinced that it is a physical place; it's probably a state of mind.

[projectchristmas]

As soon as the episode opened with the eye and the alarm clock, I knew it was an homage to LOST! Loved every bit of that Desmond-in-the-hatch shout-out, especially the playing of the Mama Cass tape!

[chaifan]

3 hours ago, Paloma said:

I don't usually like to copy long posts, but this is a great analysis by ae2! The only thing I don't see is why/how Jason would be the real Architect.

Agree a million times on the amazing analysis by ae2!  But as to Paloma's question, I can see the argument for Jason as the Architect.  As others have pointed out, he's the only one who hasn't really changed throughout the show.  Maybe that's because he just inserted himself into the game in the least likely spot.  Just a theory.  I'll be honest, it's an interesting concept, but a) I don't fully buy it myself, and b) I hope it's not true.

I also don't want this to be Michael's Bad Place.  Because if that's true, then the whole show has been pretty much the same as a long dream sequence.  And that would really suck.

I would need to go back to one of the earliest episodes (probably Ep 1), where they introduced Doug's portrait, but if I remember correctly he didn't get the system 100% right, he was just the closest any human has come to figuring it out.  I wish they had revisited that, with Michael saying "well, he was only __% right, now we know what happened to the other __%." or something like that.  Just to emphasize that Doug's version of the point system really isn't the way it works, and the "wrong" part is what we're really seeing with Doug.  I also agree with other comments that it would seem that doing good for the sole reason of gaming the point system would not get you into the Good Place. 

I want Janet's void to be plastered with images of Jason.  Teen Beat style posters of Jason.  Jason on Black Velvet.  Mona Lisa Jason.  Cross-stitch Jason throw pillows.  Jason mugs.  Everything, and I mean everything, Jason.  With a "sorry, didn't have a chance to clean up for company" before poof!  it's all gone.

This show's writers and creative team are gods to me.  If I learned the guy/gal sitting next to me on an airplane or wherever was on this team, I'd go all fan girl on them.  Probably more than if it were Kristen Bell or any of the other actors.  If they were single, I'd propose on the spot. 

Edited November 16, 2018 by chaifan
silly typo

[ae2]

3 hours ago, Paloma said:

I don't usually like to copy long posts, but this is a great analysis by ae2! The only thing I don't see is why/how Jason would be the real Architect.

I have zero supporting evidence for this theory, and it is admittedly insane, but somehow it just makes sense in my head.

Plus, if Jason is the Architect that makes the entire show his Bud Hole

And thanks! :)

[cleo]

@PalomaI'm Canadian and I'm not aware of anything in particular about Doug's name. Tbh I'm not sure why they bothered to be in 'Canada' bc I expected alot of jokes/ stereotypes about Canada and there were none that I noticed. It was odd bc there could be a joke somewhere about Doug's striving for points and being so nice to everyone and how 'nice' Canadians are. 

I enjoyed the ep, I just felt  disappointed they didn't really use the setting at all. The could have been anywhere.

[ClareWalks]

6 minutes ago, cleo said:

I expected alot of jokes/ stereotypes about Canada and there were none that I noticed.

The one thing I noticed is that the sociopathic kid called Doug et al "hosers."

[RainbowBrite]

8 minutes ago, cleo said:

@PalomaI'm Canadian and I'm not aware of anything in particular about Doug's name. Tbh I'm not sure why they bothered to be in 'Canada' bc I expected alot of jokes/ stereotypes about Canada and there were none that I noticed. It was odd bc there could be a joke somewhere about Doug's striving for points and being so nice to everyone and how 'nice' Canadians are. 

I enjoyed the ep, I just felt  disappointed they didn't really use the setting at all. The could have been anywhere.

I was honestly SO relieved that they did not use all of the Canadian tropes, accent, maple syrup...UGH. The Puking Moose was fine. It wasn't too much.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

4 hours ago, Paloma said:

I have a question about Doug Forcett: is his character some kind of inside joke about Canadians? This is the impression I've gotten from a few comments but hadn't heard the name before and have no idea what the joke is (if any) about his name.

Doug Forcett was first mentioned in the very first episode of the show during Eleanor’s orientation meeting. Michael has a picture of Doug hanging  in his office. 

Eleanor: Um, so who was right? I mean about all of this?

Michael: Well, let's see. Hindus are a little bit right, Muslims a little bit. Jews, Christians, Buddhists, every religion guessed about 5%, except for Doug Forcett.

Eleanor: Who's Doug Forcett?

Michael: Well, Doug was a stoner kid who lived in Calgary during the 1970s. One night, he got really high on mushrooms, and his best friend, Randy, said, "Hey, what do you think happens after we die?" And Doug just launched into this long monologue where he got like 92% correct. I mean, we couldn't believe what we were hearing. That's him, actually, right up there. He's pretty famous around here. 

[cleo]

43 minutes ago, RainbowBrite said:

I was honestly SO relieved that they did not use all of the Canadian tropes, accent, maple syrup...UGH. The Puking Moose was fine. It wasn't too much

Yeah fair enough, but I wasn't really expecting anything like that. It is a clever and creative show, so I expected something clever and creative in relation to Canada, but there was nothing other than the hoser comment. I think the other reason it bothered me is that none of it seemed like Canada to me, much less like Calgary. It's like they wanted Doug to be somewhere 'other' so that randomly chose Canada and then did nothing with it. 

Anyway, it was a fine ep overall .....*wanders off to have some Canadian bacon with a side of Canadian maple syrup and watch SCTV*...

Edited November 16, 2018 by cleo

[Bruinsfan]

They did have him feeding rescue wolves among the stray dogs. The former are still pretty rare in the US compared to Canada, aren't they?

[possibilities]

I don't know how much they used the Arizona setting, either, but I thought they were joking about how Canadians are supposedly super-polite and inoffensive.

Jason has shown a little growth. He decided his dad wasn't capable of being morally improved, so he tried to help Pillboi instead. I'm not sure if he previously would have had enough judgment or perspective to really notice in the past.

We didn't meet Chidi's family or explore the origins of his neuroses! I love how the show is constantly re-inventing itself and never letting things get stale, and I love that they always surprise me. I'm still curious about Chidi's background, but I'm content to just keep moving and maybe they will come back to that again in a different way.

[Virtual]

I think Michael being in a Bad Place of his own the whole time may have been the case while he was under the pretense of running a "Good Place" (the one thing I noticed is that he always failed, which seemed to be a huge anxiety for him), but there's no way he is now, or no way he has been since he decided to help the gang.

If Tahani's efforts got discounted because the motivations weren't right (by Michael and Gen), I can only assume Doug's will be as well. Tahani only wanted to one-up her parents and sister, and Doug was directly seeking a ticket to the Good Place.

Janet sure has bad-ass fighting skills! Thought she was a Cobra Kai character for a minute. I guess her lifting Shawn by his throat and throwing him in last season's finale was a preview to what we saw here.

[EdnasEdibles]

I remember in the first season I posted something about the John Milton quote, "The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven."

And it is my prediction that this will come to play eventually. I could totally see them learning that the Bad Place can become a Good Place. They were in the Bad Place but because of each other they enjoyed themselves. They were all initially matched to torture each other but instead partnered together. This entire show is them making a heaven of hell. 

[Miles]

This show continues to move at break neck pace. Every other show would have milked at least a season out of the soul-squating on earth. Not this show. Like two episodes and we are out. I love it.

 

19 hours ago, vibeology said:

This is the first time I've ever really considered it, but how do we know the Good Place exists? Have we seen any actual proof? Sean seemed pretty confident that even Doug Forcette would end up in the Bad Place. Is it possible that there is no actual Good Place and everyone from the afterlife is a demon or is being lied to?

I mean Mindy got her medium place, since the good and bad place people fought over her. Also there are good palce Janets, so the good place has to exist. But the point system seems to be increadibly scewed. Maybe it wasn't always that way though, maybe the demons messed with it at some point.

Edited November 16, 2018 by Miles

[Empress1]

8 hours ago, Wandering Snark said:

The poor guy has been eating only lentils and radishes for who knows how many years! You could see why he was so on edge thinking everything affected his points!

I love lentils - I am having a leftover curried lentil dish with coconut milk for dinner tonight - but radishes are so fucking useless. They're a garnish vegetable! Nobody says "You know what would hit the spot? RADISHES." We got radishes in the CSA and I would get so mad. "Who needs this many damn radishes?" Is there any sadder diet than lentils, radishes, and your own filtered waste?

[Wandering Snark]

8 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

Jason meaningful contribution was showing Chidi a good time.  Jason can make even Chidi have fun....points for him right there.  

Whooo! 3 million points!

[WAnglais1]

31 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

I love lentils - I am having a leftover curried lentil dish with coconut milk for dinner tonight - but radishes are so fucking useless. They're a garnish vegetable! Nobody says "You know what would hit the spot? RADISHES." We got radishes in the CSA and I would get so mad. "Who needs this many damn radishes?" Is there any sadder diet than lentils, radishes, and your own filtered waste?

Radishes taste like dirt to me.

BadAzz!Janet was a great and happy surprise. Michael McK a delight in the part. Best episode of the season!

[arc]

Radishes are a delight and pickled daikon (a Japanese root vegetable that’s basically a giant radish without the color) are even more delightful.

but even so, Doug’s life is horrifying.

[Chaos Theory]

1 hour ago, Miles said:

 

I mean Mindy got her medium place, since the good and bad place people fought over her. Also there are good palce Janets, so the good place has to exist. But the point system seems to be increadibly scewed. Maybe it wasn't always that way though, maybe the demons messed with it at some point.

Shawn is a naughty bitch. 

[Loandbehold]

4 hours ago, cleo said:

Tbh I'm not sure why they bothered to be in 'Canada' bc I expected alot of jokes/ stereotypes about Canada and there were none that I noticed. It was odd bc there could be a joke somewhere about Doug's striving for points and being so nice to everyone and how 'nice' Canadians are. 

Let us not forget that inside The Puking Moose there were 11 Molson signs. Also, the bar was left open for the Soul Squad w/o any bartenders. I assume b/c Canadians are so nice and honest. Unless they're hosers. 

Edited November 17, 2018 by Loandbehold
Because "Puling" and "Puking" are not the same thing.

[Desperately Random]

12 hours ago, ae2 said:

Jason is the real Architect of the entire thing. This is something I predicted from early in S1 that still fits in a weird way.

That would be an interesting twist that I hadn't thought of before now. It would be kind of like a Keyser Soze ending where Jason changes his facial expression, body language and demeanor to become this very intellectual person/demon

The show always surprises me. I never know where it's going to go next. Now that they're no longer on Earth, I guess we're going to be seeing them trying to change how the point system works. I enjoyed seeing them on Earth but I'm ready for them to be in a new environment. Seeing how all the points are added up and the accountants and how Michael tries to change the system will be fun to watch.

 I was curious about one thing. Were there any employees at that bar?

[tominboston]

10 minutes ago, Desperately Random said:

 I was curious about one thing. Were there any employees at that bar?

No. Right? I don't remember seeing any. So could the Puking Moose actually have been some sort of constructed supernatural space, rather than a real bar that the gang happened to wander into while waiting for Michael and Janet to finish their visit with Doug Forcett? How else would the demonic hit squad have known where they were?

[Zuleikha]

The ending of this episode further deepened my feelings that this season lost the specialness of the first two seasons. This season has been a fun and frothy sitcom, but IMHO, it hasn't been smart. The events either don't matter or they're done to get characters from Point A to Point B. Too much of the character development and character relationships are happening off screen. I sort of buy that Eleanor is in love with Chidi right now, but I also sort of don't. Because IIRC, they haven't interacted as a twosome since Chidi broke up with Simone. Prior to that, there were some glimpses of Eleanor/Chidi having a particular bond, but the show seemed to want to be explicit that it was platonic (at that point) with no hint of anything else.

Likewise, Tahani and Eleanor may have developed into close friends during the montage year. But in terms of what we've actually seen on screen? Not really so much. Tahani's interactions have mostly been with Jason, and neither Tahani nor Eleanor were present for each other's most important growth moments this season. 

I'm glad the show has gotten back to questioning the point system, but that's also where this season began. I do have faith that all the various elements that we've seen so far are going to tie into the ultimate argument against the points, but I wish it was clearer how the characters' experiences in Life 2.0 play into this. Because right now, it's not clear at all. 

I also feel that the comedic potential of demons on Earth was wasted, much like the comedic (and philosophical) potential of Janet not being a Janet anymore has been wasted.

Quote

That makes sense, although it's possible that trying to earn points for The Good Place doesn't lose you as many points as doing good things for mostly selfish reasons.

Isn't it explicitly canon that trying to earn points to get into the Good Place does not actually earn points? I thought that was established back in s1 with Eleanor and emphasized again by Gen at the end of s2. I actually commented to my husband about how poor Doug was acting rationally based on what he saw but that what must have been in the 8% that he missed was that his choices weren't going to help him at all. Even if it doesn't lose points, you're still not going to get into the Good Place without gaining points. So I was not surprised by Shawn's comments. Also,  now that I think about it, based on what we saw with Mindy St. Clair, Doug would have been much better off doing something like corporate law or finance, investing his money, and then founding a successful foundation. So maybe he wasn't acting rationally since he wasn't really maximizing his points efficiently. Poor Doug!

Edited November 17, 2018 by Zuleikha

[BobH]

I liked this one overall. I did wonder why Janet would be surprised by Doug, since her knowledge of all thing in the universe (up until she stepped through the door) should have included everything about Doug, as he clearly didn't just go over the edge in the last year. Maybe they're in the wrong letter of "Jeremy Bearimy" for her to know...

The fight was a lot of fun, especially watching it again after listening to the podcast, which had the stunt coordinator on. Hilarious that Janet's stunt double was also one of Wonder Woman's stunt doubles.

Am I the only one who thought, when Janet went through the portal and then Janet came out seconds later that maybe it wasn't the same Janet, similar to the Good Janet / Bad Janet fakeout last year (which also resulted in Shawn being thrown across a room). Maybe another Bad Janet, or maybe a different Good Janet working for the Judge? Probably not, but that's going to be in the back of my head next episode.

[Cerulean]

Does Janet have free will?

This episode especially shows her initiating some pretty large events. 

While the first season shows her being incredibly helpful, offering advice, and even getting married, last season she *made* a person. 

We’ve had it confirmed that all the resets have made her the most complex Janet. 

Could the Janets be an experiment of some type?

[bros402]

20 hours ago, Amarsir said:

That would be interesting, but he's at Mindy St. Claire's. Even if the demons who invaded there did something to him, I can't imagine Janet's Void would be the result.

Maybe Janet has some Dereks in her void that she was working on to try to correct her mistakes making the first one :D

[Dowel Jones]

13 hours ago, cleo said:

Tbh I'm not sure why they bothered to be in 'Canada' bc I expected alot of jokes/ stereotypes about Canada and there were none that I noticed.

 

9 hours ago, Loandbehold said:

Also, the bar was left open for the Soul Squad w/o any bartenders. I assume b/c Canadians are so nice and honest. Unless they're hosers. 

Maybe The Good Place is just a bar in rural Canada.  No bad jokes allowed.

[Conan Troutman]

On 11/16/2018 at 3:52 AM, Samsnee said:

Bets on the casting for the accountant? I’m hoping it’s Kevin from The Office. 

My money's on the accountant from P&R. 

[Luckylyn]

All of Doug’s actions are ultimately selfish because he’s focused on getting points to get into The Good Place.  Nothing he does is really altruistic.  

Still the point system seems too rigid.  There’s no room for improvement or forgiveness of mistakes.

[Blakeston]

I'll admit it - this was one of my least favorite episodes.

Most of the episode was devoted to Doug Forcett. And as much as I enjoyed seeing Michael McKean, that plotline was basically one gag repeated over and over again - long after we'd gotten the point. And it didn't feel very fresh, because they'd already covered very similar ground with Chidi. I was half-expecting Doug to ruefully admit he'd been drinking almond milk.

It was fun watching Janet kick some ass, but it also felt like fanservice. And I was hoping that the demons had a more interesting plan for bringing them back than just attacking them like that. It was a huge waste of Bambadjan and Vicky.

Also, just a few episodes ago, Michael explained that you can't accrue points once you've learned about the point system. So why doesn't he think that would apply to Doug?

[cleo]

7 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

Maybe The Good Place is just a bar in rural Canada. 

I know it's my Good Place. 

 

17 hours ago, Loandbehold said:

Also, the bar was left open for the Soul Squad w/o any bartenders. I assume b/c Canadians are so nice and honest.

When I was a teenager we lived in a small town, pop 600. It had a liquor store, and one day the employee forgot to lock it when they left for the night. I think some other teenagers did steal some booze, but then some adult found out and went and sat in the store until the employee came back to lock it up. 

[meep.meep]

20 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I love lentils - I am having a leftover curried lentil dish with coconut milk for dinner tonight - but radishes are so fucking useless. They're a garnish vegetable! Nobody says "You know what would hit the spot? RADISHES." We got radishes in the CSA and I would get so mad. "Who needs this many damn radishes?" Is there any sadder diet than lentils, radishes, and your own filtered waste?

There is no sadder diet, this is true.

But to those of us on low carbohydrate diets, radishes are a good thing.  You can roast them with garlic and butter and they taste not radishy, but very similar to potatoes.  They are also great pickled.

I was disappointed that we didn't get to see Good Janet vs. Bad Janet.  She was there, arriving in the second or third round of demons.

[SomeTameGazelle]

4 hours ago, Blakeston said:

Also, just a few episodes ago, Michael explained that you can't accrue points once you've learned about the point system. So why doesn't he think that would apply to Doug?

As far as we know, Doug wasn't insider trading. At least, he wasn't told about it by anyone, he just thought it up and was less than 100% accurate. That could explain why Michael didn't assume his knowledge counted against him. But maybe Shawn knows that isn't relevant, or that a supernatural insider did communicate the information to him while he was taking mushrooms.

[Loandbehold]

4 hours ago, cleo said:

When I was a teenager we lived in a small town, pop 600. It had a liquor store, and one day the employee forgot to lock it when they left for the night. I think some other teenagers did steal some booze, but then some adult found out and went and sat in the store until the employee came back to lock it up.

When I went to Hawaii, we saw stands where flowers were sold, but nobody was actually at the stand. People just took a bouquet and left the money in a jar.

 

5 hours ago, Blakeston said:

Also, just a few episodes ago, Michael explained that you can't accrue points once you've learned about the point system. So why doesn't he think that would apply to Doug?

Doug didn't know about the point system. He just guessed it (with 92% accuracy). Whereas Michael told the soon-to-be Soul Squad about the system, thereby tainting any subsequent points they would thereafter score. 

[Trillium]

11 hours ago, Conan Troutman said:

My money's on the accountant from P&R. 

That would be Adam Scott who’s already played Trevor on this show. 

[Amarsir]

Apparently there's a deleted scene with the bartender so there being no employees was more of a squeeze for time than any message. (I know this from the podcast; no deleted scenes published yet.)

[Ikki]

1 hour ago, Trillium said:

That would be Adam Scott who’s already played Trevor on this show. 

That was my first thought too, but I think they might have meant John Balma, who played Barney on Parks and Rec, the guy from the accounting firm who kept trying to hire Ben and fangirled over him.

[companionenvy]

2 hours ago, SomeTameGazelle said:

As far as we know, Doug wasn't insider trading. At least, he wasn't told about it by anyone, he just thought it up and was less than 100% accurate. That could explain why Michael didn't assume his knowledge counted against him. But maybe Shawn knows that isn't relevant, or that a supernatural insider did communicate the information to him while he was taking mushrooms.

I don't see why it would make a difference, though. As long as Doug fully believes it, his motivations are no purer than that of the Soul-Squad. The same would be true for someone with a far less accurate idea of the afterlife - as long as someone genuinely believes that access to heaven or some heaven-equivalent is dependent on how much good you do, their motives are compromised.

[Desperately Random]

12 minutes ago, companionenvy said:

I don't see why it would make a difference, though. As long as Doug fully believes it, his motivations are no purer than that of the Soul-Squad. The same would be true for someone with a far less accurate idea of the afterlife - as long as someone genuinely believes that access to heaven or some heaven-equivalent is dependent on how much good you do, their motives are compromised.

I agree. Doug isn't doing these good deeds for any altruistic purpose. He's doing them because he's trying to rack up enough points to get into the Good Place. Everything he does is with that goal in mind. He's not trying to help anybody except himself. His whole life has been about collecting points. It's the same reason Tahani didn't get into the Good Place. She did a lot of charitable works but her reason for doing them was to impress her parents and show that she was as important as her sister.

[EyewatchTV211]

10 minutes ago, Desperately Random said:

I agree. Doug isn't doing these good deeds for any altruistic purpose. He's doing them because he's trying to rack up enough points to get into the Good Place. Everything he does is with that goal in mind. He's not trying to help anybody except himself. His whole life has been about collecting points. It's the same reason Tahani didn't get into the Good Place. She did a lot of charitable works but her reason for doing them was to impress her parents and show that she was as important as her sister.

This may not end up making sense once I finish writing this up, but I think there's a slight distinction between the two examples. The podcast addressed the difference between the Soul Squad KNOWING with certainty how the afterlife works versus Doug believing/theorizing how it works. They compared it to the belief in various religions. People firmly believe it's true and try to follow the tenets of those religions but don't 100% know that their beliefs are the real deal. So him doing good things thinking it might help without knowing for sure can still earn him points because it isn't rigged in his situation.

HOWEVER, I do see his situation as similar to Tahani. He's doing good things selfishly because he believes that it will help him in the afterlife. This could be why Shawn knows he won't get into the Good Place. Unless it's balanced out somewhat by the fact that Doug is sacrificing his human life for the afterlife. He's miserable now in order to have something great later. Maybe he should go to the Medium Place. 

[Trillium]

1 hour ago, Ikki said:

That was my first thought too, but I think they might have meant John Balma, who played Barney on Parks and Rec, the guy from the accounting firm who kept trying to hire Ben and fangirled over him.

Oh yeah, how could I forget Barney! Maybe to get into the Good Place you have to win Cones of Dunshire! 

[The Companion]

On 11/16/2018 at 7:14 AM, Ohiopirate02 said:

I really enjoyed the conversation between Eleanor and Tahani tonight.  It struck me when Tahani was so happy for Eleanor to confide in her, that Tahani has never had any real friends.   She has a huge circle of acquaintances,  but this is the first time she has real friends.   Just another way her parents did a number on her. The same goes for Eleanor. 

I loved when Tahani just assumed they had always been besties, both confirming her regard in this life and assumption it had always been that way. It was sweet.

On 11/16/2018 at 7:34 AM, Wandering Snark said:

The poor guy has been eating only lentils and radishes for who knows how many years! You could see why he was so on edge thinking everything affected his points!

The kid on the bike reminded me of Bad Janet.

Yes! I am dying at the mental image of Bad Janet in his place.

On 11/16/2018 at 7:57 AM, Chaos Theory said:

Jason meaningful contribution was showing Chidi a good time.  Jason can make even Chidi have fun....points for him right there.  

I agree! Poor Chidi is so wound up all the time. It was fun to watch him play beer pong with a pool ball. I think Jason's genuine sweetness makes him a great character. Of the four, his problem is less a personality trait and more the impulsive decision to do bad things without playing them out in his head. Personal growth for him probably just looks like not performing criminal acts and thinking before acting. Maybe considering a non-Molotov cocktail solution.

On 11/16/2018 at 9:39 AM, Rockstar99435 said:

 

I loved everything about this episode. Janet was the best. Jason's pool game was the best. The snail funeral was the best. Everything was the best. 

 

The snail funeral was amazing.

On 11/16/2018 at 1:51 PM, RainbowBrite said:

I was honestly SO relieved that they did not use all of the Canadian tropes, accent, maple syrup...UGH. The Puking Moose was fine. It wasn't too much.

Some part of me wants their version of New Orleans (where I live). We all know Eleanor has been here.

[chaifan]

1 hour ago, Ivydoom said:

I just remembered but when they were trying to revive that snail I was sort of hoping Michael would suggest to Doug to try salt on the snail. I miss Michael's (inner)demon.

Doug's situation is an odd one. It has been established that you cannot earn points once you know about the point system. Technically, Doug doesn't know about the point system, he only believes in it. I don't know if this slight difference will make any difference to the tally. But I also see a difference with him and Tahani. Doug isn't looking for aproval, or looking for fame. To me it seems he just wants to live his life quietly doing good according to what he believes in.

I dunno, maybe the 3-week walk is gonna bite him in the arse; who knows what good he could have done in that time.

My one quibble with this is that I didn't get the sense that Doug wants to live his life as he is doing, but instead he feels obligated because if he doesn't he's damned to eternal hell.  He sounded resentful of his lifestyle most of the time.

I wonder why he couldn't ride a bicycle?  A used one, that he saved from a landfill, and has eco-friendly tires, of course. 

My personal opinion is that Doug is still eligible for points, for reasons many others have stated.  But, he is likely not accruing many due to a) his motivations, and b) his actions are relatively small in the whole scheme of point accumulation, and therefore probably will not have enough to get into the Good Place.  I like the idea of him also getting into the Middle Place, though.

[Kel Varnsen]

On 11/15/2018 at 10:12 PM, tennisgurl said:

Holding out for Jerry/Gary from Parks and Rec! 

I always thought this show needa a Steve Carrell cameo at some point.

On 11/15/2018 at 10:20 PM, Wandering Snark said:

I just have to say I'm terribly upset that we didn't end with something "Hey there dinks!" From Bad Janet as she came in.

The fact that we didn't get any Bad Janet dialogue was the only let down in an awesome episode.

On 11/16/2018 at 11:53 AM, projectchristmas said:

As soon as the episode opened with the eye and the alarm clock, I knew it was an homage to LOST! Loved every bit of that Desmond-in-the-hatch shout-out, especially the playing of the Mama Cass tape!

That was a pretty great shout out and I wondered if anyone else caught it. I remember when The Good Place started Mike Schur said he spent a bunch of time talking with the Lost showrunners about things like the after life, alternate universes and how to have an end game for a show like this. So he is obviously a fan or at least appreciated that show. Foe anyone who hasn't seen it here is that scene, Desmond was a pretty big game changer:

[AnimeMania]

13 hours ago, Blakeston said:

It was fun watching Janet kick some ass, but it also felt like fanservice. And I was hoping that the demons had a more interesting plan for bringing them back than just attacking them like that. It was a huge waste of Bambadjan and Vicky.

I don't think the demons have any power of earth, they have to drag them back to the bad place if they really want to punish them.

[possibilities]

On 11/16/2018 at 5:01 PM, Miles said:

the point system seems to be increadibly scewed. Maybe it wasn't always that way though, maybe the demons messed with it at some point.

Maybe the Russians hacked it.

2 hours ago, chaifan said:

  I like the idea of him also getting into the Middle Place, though.

Doug and Mindy and Derek would make quite a threesome.

[companionenvy]

7 hours ago, VMepicgrl said:

This may not end up making sense once I finish writing this up, but I think there's a slight distinction between the two examples. The podcast addressed the difference between the Soul Squad KNOWING with certainty how the afterlife works versus Doug believing/theorizing how it works. They compared it to the belief in various religions. People firmly believe it's true and try to follow the tenets of those religions but don't 100% know that their beliefs are the real deal. So him doing good things thinking it might help without knowing for sure can still earn him points because it isn't rigged in his situation.

If it was in the podcast, I guess that's what the show is going with, but this doesn't really make sense to me. Functionally, if you believe in an afterlife that rewards goodness, it isn't any different than knowing that there is an afterlife that rewards goodness. In either case, you're doing your good deeds for "moral dessert." 

I suppose in most cases, even religious people who theoretically believe in that kind of system don't necessarily live their lives as an attempt to rack up "points," probably because their concept of heaven and what it takes to get there is fairly abstract and distant. But Doug clearly does live his life with the point system in mind, so again, I'm not seeing why his actions would be meaningfully different than the Soul Squad's.  

[chaifan]

10 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I remember when The Good Place started Mike Schur said he spent a bunch of time talking with the Lost showrunners about things like the after life, alternate universes and how to have an end game for a show like this. So he is obviously a fan or at least appreciated that show.

uh oh.  For me, that is not a good sign.  I feel the Lost showrunners started out with a great concept, and then ran it into the ground.  So I really hope Schur took everything they said with a healthy dose of skepticism when it came to any discussions about how to end the series.