S03.E09: Don't Let the Good Life Pass You By

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Michael and Janet take an important journey. Eleanor ponders whether she should share a secret.

Original air date: 11/15/18

[Panopticon]

And our quartet’s second run on earth ends... on a closeup of The Puking Moose sign. 

 

Okay, then. 

[Nordly Beaumont]

Every time I look at Jason's face, I realize I could be happy doing nothing but looking at Jason's face.

[Chaos Theory]

Janet’s strait up hottie fight scene alone made this episode so much fun D’Arcy Carden must have had a blast.

[Terrafamilia]

The whole thing with the snail was gold.

[Empress1]

2 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

Janet’s strait up hottie fight scene alone made this episode so much fun D’Arcy Carden must have had a blast.

"Screw this, let's fight!" She was straight brawling!

Ted Danson gave a sexy little head nod when he and Janet teamed up to push the demons through the doors.

[Mockingbird]

Well, that's certainly one way to re-kill all of the humans. I can't wait to see Janet's void. (Do we have to wait to see Janet's void? Are we on hiatus now?)

Last week I was bummed that Bambadjan wasn't one of the demons through the portal. So his showing up first was a delight, for me if not for Eleanor. And welcome back, Chris Baker's abs.

Hope Jeff is cool with a bunch of demons just showing up. 

And, after having relatively little to do for a while, Janet taking out the demons was so great. As was Eleanor and Chidi's reaction after Michael's "We did it!" 

Also, i get that Jason's pretty much just comic relief at this point, AND his evidence explanation made me laugh, but if I'm going to quibble with the writers, it means he's made no ethical progress at all during his time on earth while all of the other humans have shown signs of real growth. (I'm looking at you, Chidi, having all sorts of fun playing a game with absolutely no rules!)

[Empress1]

4 minutes ago, Mockingbird said:

(I'm looking at you, Chidi, having all sorts of fun playing a game with absolutely no rules!)

His delivery is fantastic. The way he simply placed the ball in the pocket and gave himself a million points was great.

[Linny]

Holy SHIT, that was a lot. Right now my brain is stuck in a loop of "FUCK YEAH, Janet!" and "Eleanor loves Chidi!" and "Michael drank someone's piss!" Just, WOW.

Alright, now that that's out of my system, I'm so glad they addressed the faulty point system. It never felt right that the standards to get into the Good Place were so extremely rigorous. Doug stressing himself out over every minute detail was treated by Janet and Michael as debilitating (and it was), but his behavior kind of makes sense given that the Good Place has been painted as a nearly unattainable ideal. If it's true that the system is rigged against humans, it'll be a huge game changer.

Jason deserves special recognition tonight for teaching Chidi to loosen up (Jacksonville style), immediately producing a Molotov cocktail to fight the demons, and for coming to Janet's aid. Love him.

Heee, Eleanor clocked Vicki without even blinking. That's my girl!

Janet and her abilities are teetering on the brink of being a too-convenient solution to the squad's problems, but D'Arcy Carden is so damn likeable I kind of can't complain. Onward to the Void!

[phalange]

Doug Forcett! Michael subtly trying to spit the recycled water back out was great.

Janet kicking demon ass was something I didn't realize I needed until today. But of course Janet would have knowledge of all the best fight moves. I liked her happy smile when Jason helped her. I lost it when Jason hit the guy on the head with a pool ball and yelled, "300 points! Best score ever!" Oh, Jason. 

So happy that Eleanor was finally able to tell Chidi about them being in love in the afterlife and that she might still be in love with him now. As soon as she realized he was being dragged to the door, she jumped right over the bar to help him.

I was wondering how they were going to actually get the humans off Earth, and I didn't foresee them all being taken to Janet's void. I'm really curious to see what that looks like.

Based on what Shawn said about Doug Forcett still going to The Bad Place, I'm starting to think that it isn't just a terrible point system, but that The Good Place doesn't actually exist.

[vibeology]

18 minutes ago, Linny said:

Alright, now that that's out of my system, I'm so glad they addressed the faulty point system. It never felt right that the standards to get into the Good Place were so extremely rigorous. Doug stressing himself out over every minute detail was treated by Janet and Michael as debilitating (and it was), but his behavior kind of makes sense given that the Good Place has been painted as a nearly unattainable ideal. If it's true that the system is rigged against humans, it'll be a huge game changer.

This is the first time I've ever really considered it, but how do we know the Good Place exists? Have we seen any actual proof? Sean seemed pretty confident that even Doug Forcette would end up in the Bad Place. Is it possible that there is no actual Good Place and everyone from the afterlife is a demon or is being lied to?

[tennisgurl]

Janet beating up demons really is just too sexy. I would be horny witnessing that too, even when about to be dragged back to Hell. That was so freaking awesome, I was full on cheering! 

So Doug Forcett had become super neurotic and obsessed with getting Good Place points, and now we still have no clue how to deal with the point system! And with Shawn's ominous comments about how he is going to get even Doug Forcett into the Bad Place, I wonder if Shawn and the demons have gamed the system somehow, so that they get almost everyone in the Bad Place, or are planning something. 

Thats certainly one way to get the humans off Earth and back to the afterlife! Into Janet's void to escape the demons! Cant wait to see The Accountants, I love exploring the Afterlife! So, maybe soon we will meet some actual Good Place agents? 

Look at Chidi, playing a silly game with no rules! And Elanor confessed that she fell in love with Chidi in another timeline! And Jason with the pool balls, and Tahani with her tweleve years of fencing! Team Cockroach kills it! And Eleanor just full on clocked Vicki, thats my girl!

[albinerhawk]

So it seems like based on tonight's episode, we've set the stage for the end game. With the pace that this show goes at, they could reach a satisfying conclusion by the end of season 3. They would probably spend about one episode in Janet's void, one episode locating and mining info from the accountants, another episode confronting Judge Gen or her superior (the burrito?) to finally rectify the faulty point system and then one or two more episodes giving a nice grand conclusion and real glimpse at The Good Place with our four happy humans, one ex-demon and not-a-girl or robot. I would assume that tonight's fight has finally pushed Shaun, Vicky and her cohorts who exited via Michael's door are gone for good. Judge Gen was not happy with Trevor's actions, and she would probably similarly dispatch the other demons for their illegal door. I'm pretty sure I would be happy with a tight three season Good Place.

However, what the fork is all this talk about a season four? I'm not sure I can see much more storyline, but then I have learned to trust Schur with this show.

[Samsnee]

You’re gonna have a bar fight and not use that opportunity to rip off Chidi’s shirt?

 

Bets on the casting for the accountant? I’m hoping it’s Kevin from The Office. 

[Mockingbird]

2 minutes ago, vibeology said:

This is the first time I've ever really considered it, but how do we know the Good Place exists? Have we seen any actual proof? Sean seemed pretty confident that even Doug Forcette would end up in the Bad Place. Is it possible that there is no actual Good Place and everyone from the afterlife is a demon or is being lied to?

In the video for Mindy, Trevor and a supposed representative from The Good Place were explaining why she ended up in the Medium Place. I feel like the existence of a Medium Place is sort of evidence that there are Good Place representatives at work. And Judge Gen has no reason to lie about the actual existence of a Good Place. I'm guessing, though, that the points system is so royally forked up that the Good Place is pretty nearly empty.

[meatball77]

I've thought for a while that there's no one actually in the Good Place.  That's why everyone is in the Bad Place and why there were so many Good Janets in a warehouse not being watched.

[TheOtherOne]

"We did it!"

"Well, she..."

❤️

I love this show very, very much. 30 minutes of joy I need every week.

Edited November 16, 2018 by TheOtherOne

[tennisgurl]

19 minutes ago, Samsnee said:

Bets on the casting for the accountant? I’m hoping it’s Kevin from The Office. 

Holding out for Jerry/Gary from Parks and Rec! 

[taragel]

29 minutes ago, vibeology said:

This is the first time I've ever really considered it, but how do we know the Good Place exists? Have we seen any actual proof? Sean seemed pretty confident that even Doug Forcette would end up in the Bad Place. Is it possible that there is no actual Good Place and everyone from the afterlife is a demon or is being lied to?

I was just thinking the same and that it's a little weird Michael is such a staunch advocate (now) of getting them to The Good Place when he doesn't seem to know anything about it or what it's like right? (It's possible Judge Gen has also never seen/been to the good place.) 

I also remember one scene with Jane in a totally white room/backdrop in S1 and that was her void. So it's basically a white screen episode, I'd imagine.  Do we have to wait till January at this point? I'm not ready for a hiatus!

[Wandering Snark]

I just have to say I'm terribly upset that we didn't end with something "Hey there dinks!" From Bad Janet as she came in.

Other than that though this episode seemed to last about 4 minutes. I guess that's a good sign.

Poor Doug... "Oh no, now I'm yelling!"

Janet was truly kick ass in this episode, in so many ways.

Didn't we see Janet's void when she 'made' her boyfriend and they lived there?

[ItCouldBeWorse]

11 hours ago, phalange said:

Based on what Shawn said about Doug Forcette still going to The Bad Place, I'm starting to think that it isn't just a terrible point system, but that The Good Place doesn't actually exist.

Michael sent Sean back through the portal just as he was about to reveal something even more surprising, it seemed, then what he had said about Doug going to The Bad Place, with the excuse that they didn't need to hear more mean things.  It seemed to me as if Michael was hiding something that Sean was about to reveal.

11 hours ago, vibeology said:

This is the first time I've ever really considered it, but how do we know the Good Place exists? Have we seen any actual proof? Sean seemed pretty confident that even Doug Forcette would end up in the Bad Place. Is it possible that there is no actual Good Place and everyone from the afterlife is a demon or is being lied to?

Edited November 16, 2018 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Bruinsfan]

26 minutes ago, Samsnee said:

You’re gonna have a bar fight and not use that opportunity to rip off Chidi’s shirt?

Chris Barker had dibs on that. And said something about working out when he stripped it off, the running joke continues! I wish Vicki had actually had some lines though, rather than just getting beat down by Eleanor. She was a funny part of Season 2, it's a shame she's been almost entirely sidelined this year.

 

29 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

So Doug Forcett had become super neurotic and obsessed with getting Good Place points, and now we still have no clue how to deal with the point system! And with Shawn's ominous comments about how he is going to get even Doug Forcett into the Bad Place, I wonder if Shawn and the demons have gamed the system somehow, so that they get almost everyone in the Bad Place, or are planning something.

I suppose it could just be that the other squad of demons intended to throw Doug through the doorway to the Bad Place along with the main characters. Also, I question how much good Doug is actually doing, if his every deed is performed with concern about racking up afterlife points. Being environmentally conscious is nice and all, but it doesn't appear he's actually having much of a positive effect on other people's lives.

[Rinaldo]

5 minutes ago, taragel said:

I also remember one scene with Jane in a totally white room/backdrop in S1 and that was her void.

That was S2, E6, "Janet and Michael," and the white room wasn't Janet's void, it was the Janet Warehouse, where one acquires an inanimate Janet before activating her. When one Janet is removed, another takes her place. Her personal void is somewhere else.

8 minutes ago, taragel said:

Do we have to wait till January at this point?

According to The AV Club, only till December 6, after two weeks off.

[thuganomics85]

Michael McKean as Doug Forcett ended up being some brilliant casting.  And I'm impressed that he was somehow both very similar and very different to McKean's Chuck from Better Call Saul in various ways.  Loved his interactions with Michael and Janet, and I'm curious over they basically used him to show that there is something finicky with the "point system", and that there has to be more to it.  Does an actual "Good Place" even exist?

Never would have predicted a bar fight (in Canada!) between Janet and a bunch of demons was coming down the pipeline, but I'm certainly glad it did!  That was all kinds of awesome!  Obviously, she deserves the majority of the credit for that, but I liked how the rest of the gang got involved like Jason throwing a pool ball (Jacksonville rules!), Tahani using her fencing skills to... well, actually cheat and knock the demon out, and, of course, Eleanor just cold-cocking Vicky.  Ha!

Did like seeing Chidi loosen up and hang with Jason for a bit.  Those two usually don't interact too much, so that was nice.  Plus, it led to some bonding between Eleanor and Tahani, which I always enjoy.

So, now, everyone "dies" again, in order to escape the demons and go into Janet's avoid.  Plus, Bad Janet is back!

D'Arcy Carden was definitely the highlight in this episode (besides the fighting scene, her reactions during all of the Doug stuff was pure cold.)  And, as usual, I enjoyed seeing more of Shawn being a deadpan prick in the way only Marc Evan Jackson can!

[taragel]

29 minutes ago, Rinaldo said:

That was S2, E6, "Janet and Michael," and the white room wasn't Janet's void, it was the Janet Warehouse, where one acquires an inanimate Janet before activating her. When one Janet is removed, another takes her place. Her personal void is somewhere else.

According to The AV Club, only till December 6, after two weeks off.

Aw, the Warehouse! I forgot about that. 

I imagine there'll be another twist/cliffhanger/change of location after the void. 

32 minutes ago, Bruinsfan said:

 I wish Vicki had actually had some lines though, rather than just getting beat down by Eleanor. She was a funny part of Season 2, it's a shame she's been almost entirely sidelined this year.

It might be because she had a recurring role on Supergirl (which films in Vancouver) until last week's episode--maybe they filmed at the same time.

[Ohiopirate02]

19 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

Michael McKean as Doug Forcett ended up being some brilliant casting.  And I'm impressed that he was somehow both very similar and very different to McKean's Chuck from Better Call Saul in various ways.  Loved his interactions with Michael and Janet, and I'm curious over they basically used him to show that there is something finicky with the "point system", and that there has to be more to it.  Does an actual "Good Place" even exist?

Never would have predicted a bar fight (in Canada!) between Janet and a bunch of demons was coming down the pipeline, but I'm certainly glad it did!  That was all kinds of awesome!  Obviously, she deserves the majority of the credit for that, but I liked how the rest of the gang got involved like Jason throwing a pool ball (Jacksonville rules!), Tahani using her fencing skills to... well, actually cheat and knock the demon out, and, of course, Eleanor just cold-cocking Vicky.  Ha!

Did like seeing Chidi loosen up and hang with Jason for a bit.  Those two usually don't interact too much, so that was nice.  Plus, it led to some bonding between Eleanor and Tahani, which I always enjoy.

So, now, everyone "dies" again, in order to escape the demons and go into Janet's avoid.  Plus, Bad Janet is back!

D'Arcy Carden was definitely the highlight in this episode (besides the fighting scene, her reactions during all of the Doug stuff was pure cold.)  And, as usual, I enjoyed seeing more of Shawn being a deadpan prick in the way only Marc Evan Jackson can!

I'm not surprised that Michael Mckean did well in this role.  He was giving me shades his character Lenny from Laverne and Shirley.   And the more I think about it, Jason is the 21st century Lenny just less creepy.   

[DrScottie]

50 minutes ago, Bruinsfan said:

I wish Vicki had actually had some lines though, rather than just getting beat down by Eleanor. She was a funny part of Season 2, it's a shame she's been almost entirely sidelined this year.

I thought that her perfecting the Australian accent was going to play a role too. Maybe Tiya was filming Alex Inc at the same time so she couldn't be there earlier in the season. 

1 hour ago, phalange said:

As soon as she realized he was being dragged to the door, she jumped right over the bar to help him.

It wouldn't be the first time Eleanor jumped over a bar. 

I liked when Eleanor gave the same speech / bluff to Shawn about Michael and Janet being ten steps of him like Indiana Jones gave to Donovan in the Last Crusade movie about Marcus Brody blending in and disappearing. Not even close. 

Edited November 16, 2018 by DrScottie

[Loandbehold]

1 hour ago, Bruinsfan said:

I suppose it could just be that the other squad of demons intended to throw Doug through the doorway to the Bad Place along with the main characters. Also, I question how much good Doug is actually doing, if his every deed is performed with concern about racking up afterlife points. Being environmentally conscious is nice and all, but it doesn't appear he's actually having much of a positive effect on other people's lives.

Given that Doug was doing these things just to make sure he went to The Good Place, wouldn't that cost him points? Much like Tahani, who raised tons of money for charity, but ended up being docked points b/c she did it to stroke her ego. Maybe Shawn realized this and that's how he knew Doug was destined for The Bad Place. Doug may have grasped the methodology for getting to The Good Place, but that doesn't mean he's actually headed there. 

I knew Janet was a BAMF. Loved Chidi and Jason bonding, which gave us some nice Eleanor-Tahani moments. 

To the Void (and beyond?)!

[Anela]

Poor Doug. Michael And Janet just upset his whole way of life, after so many years. I thought he was going to freak out over the fact that he could have been having a lot more fun, all that time. 

That scene with Janet swinging back through the portal, made me laugh out loud. I love her. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

2 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

So, now, everyone "dies" again, in order to escape the demons and go into Janet's avoid.  Plus, Bad Janet is back!

So, will their four bodies be discovered somewhere?  Will Kamilah, Donna Shellstrop, Donkey Doug or Pillboi find out that they died? Would they really care? Simone probably would.  Larry Hemsworth?

[AnimeMania]

Best episode ever! Crouching Janet, Hidden Dragon

Crying Emoji - splashing the beer on the beautiful pool table.

Great Scene: Janet being slammed face first onto the bar, interrupting Chidi and Eleanor's heart felt conversation.

[bros402]

That was great. I hope we get Derek next episode.

 

1 hour ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

So, will their four bodies be discovered somewhere?  Will Kamilah, Donna Shellstrop, Donkey Doug or Pillboi find out that they died? Would they really care? Simone probably would.  Larry Hemsworth?

I think they will all just end up on Wikipedia's List of people who disappeared mysteriously: post-1970

[Amarsir]

So I instantly recognized Michael McKean from the back of his head and knew he was playing Doug Forcett. And I did predict the demons would be the catalyst for getting off Earth. Yet my biggest takeaway is how unexpected everything was. 

A massive fight scene? Going to Janet's void? Doug being miserable? No employees at the Puking Moose? I didn't call any of that.

This was another great episode for me. Undoing what we thought we knew, shifting the status quo, philosophical discussion, character advancement, and some really funny lines too. Plus Kung Fu Janet! Now I want her action figure for Christmas.

3 hours ago, bros402 said:

That was great. I hope we get Derek next episode.

That would be interesting, but he's at Mindy St. Claire's. Even if the demons who invaded there did something to him, I can't imagine Janet's Void would be the result.

[bethy]

7 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Michael McKean as Doug Forcett ended up being some brilliant casting.  And I'm impressed that he was somehow both very similar and very different to McKean's Chuck from Better Call Saul in various ways.

Who would've thought Lenny would have such a long, varied career ahead of him?

[Xena]

9 hours ago, Terrafamilia said:

The whole thing with the snail was gold.

".... and we learned the limits of scotch tape."

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I have always been terrible at pool. I understand the angles needed for shots but I am unable to make them actually happen due to my lack of actual skill. But obviously my mistake was not playing pool JACKSONVILLE STYLE! Three million points!

[Amarsir]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I have always been terrible at pool. I understand the angles needed for shots but I am unable to make them actually happen due to my lack of actual skill. But obviously my mistake was not playing pool JACKSONVILLE STYLE! Three million points!

Damn Homey, you're good at this!

[Notwisconsin]

10 hours ago, phalange said:

Based on what Shawn said about Doug Forcett still going to The Bad Place, I'm starting to think that it isn't just a terrible point system, but that The Good Place doesn't actually exist.

it turns out they explained this earlier in the season: As soon as one finds out the system, the clock stops. This is why our four heroes cannot go to the good place after they saw the portal. Doug saw the whole system while he's still an amoral stoner, and his points haven't moved since he had his vision.

[Paloma]

8 hours ago, Loandbehold said:

Given that Doug was doing these things just to make sure he went to The Good Place, wouldn't that cost him points? Much like Tahani, who raised tons of money for charity, but ended up being docked points b/c she did it to stroke her ego. Maybe Shawn realized this and that's how he knew Doug was destined for The Bad Place. Doug may have grasped the methodology for getting to The Good Place, but that doesn't mean he's actually headed there. 

That makes sense, although it's possible that trying to earn points for The Good Place doesn't lose you as many points as doing good things for mostly selfish reasons. 

 

9 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Michael McKean as Doug Forcett ended up being some brilliant casting.  And I'm impressed that he was somehow both very similar and very different to McKean's Chuck from Better Call Saul in various ways. 

I'm impressed with him also--he was totally convincing as Chuck, but even with my having watched BCS recently and initially being surprised when I realized who they cast as Doug, MM was believable as that very different character.

[Ohiopirate02]

I really enjoyed the conversation between Eleanor and Tahani tonight.  It struck me when Tahani was so happy for Eleanor to confide in her, that Tahani has never had any real friends.   She has a huge circle of acquaintances,  but this is the first time she has real friends.   Just another way her parents did a number on her. The same goes for Eleanor. 

[Chaos Theory]

Chidi actually looked like he was having fun playing a game with absolutely no rules.  Jason and his reckless abandon may actually be good for him.

Loved watching Michael Mckean as Doug Forcett it was brilliant casting.  I loved the idea about a guy so freaked out about figuring out his the after life works that he gets the same kind of complex Chidi has.  He is unable to make simple decisions or mistakes without going overboard to make them right. 

Still the Janet fight was my favorite part.

[Wandering Snark]

8 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

Loved watching Michael Mckean as Doug Forcett it was brilliant casting.  I loved the idea about a guy so freaked out about figuring out his the after life works that he gets the same kind of complex Chidi has.  He is unable to make simple decisions or mistakes without going overboard to make them right. 

The poor guy has been eating only lentils and radishes for who knows how many years! You could see why he was so on edge thinking everything affected his points!

The kid on the bike reminded me of Bad Janet.

[Catfi9ht]

11 hours ago, Mockingbird said:

Also, i get that Jason's pretty much just comic relief at this point, AND his evidence explanation made me laugh, but if I'm going to quibble with the writers, it means he's made no ethical progress at all during his time on earth while all of the other humans have shown signs of real growth. (I'm looking at you, Chidi, having all sorts of fun playing a game with absolutely no rules!)

I had a very similar thought this episode. Although Jason is a good-natured dullard, he still brought something to the team other than being a butt of everyone's jokes. I also thought Michael's comment toward Jason about needing 30 seconds was a little mean-spirited, and I don't remember that occurring before. I hope they show Jason having a meaningful contribution soon because I think the character deserves being shown in a positive light.

Other than that, I continue to love this show and each episode is so smart, funny, and meaningful toward advancing the plot. It's rare to see all three of those characteristics in a show, and I look forward to watching it and listening to the podcast each week. On a slightly tangential topic, I've had a run where I've not liked shows lately and I thought I was in some type of pre-holiday funk, but this show completely snapped me out of it.

My favorite line this episode was D'Arcy's delivery of "Yes...No..." when Doug asked if anyone knew snail CPR. I love the way she changes her delivery with lines like that. Her facial expressions crack me up every time. I'm glad we got to see more of her this episode.

[albinerhawk]

11 hours ago, Mockingbird said:

Well, that's certainly one way to re-kill all of the humans. 

Did they really die or will this be a loophole in their comings and goings in the afterlife world?

[Rinaldo]

2 hours ago, bethy said:

Who would've thought Lenny would have such a long, varied career ahead of him?

Michael McKean has indeed established himself over the decades as just a superb, skilled actor. I've seen him do outstanding work onstage too: in a musical (the efficiency expert in Pajama Game), as the Stage Manager in Our Town, with a British accent in Pinter's The Homecoming...the list goes on.

30 minutes ago, Notwisconsin said:

it turns out they explained this earlier in the season: As soon as one finds out the system, the clock stops. This is why our four heroes cannot go to the good place after they saw the portal. Doug saw the whole system while he's still an amoral stoner, and his points haven't moved since he had his vision.

Maybe that applies to Doug, but it would also be possible to argue that he doesn't know the cosmic point system, he just supposed it while stoned, and happened to be mostly right, so his points since then are no more invalid than those of any other person living according to a belief system. We'll see; it could be argued either way, I think.

[Chaos Theory]

Jason meaningful contribution was showing Chidi a good time.  Jason can make even Chidi have fun....points for him right there.  

[ae2]

10 hours ago, vibeology said:

This is the first time I've ever really considered it, but how do we know the Good Place exists? Have we seen any actual proof? Sean seemed pretty confident that even Doug Forcette would end up in the Bad Place. Is it possible that there is no actual Good Place and everyone from the afterlife is a demon or is being lied to?

They have been intentionally vague about the existence of the Good Place. The best supporting evidence for it is

• Demons think it exists and have talked about it when not around the 4 humans.
• In the first season we learned all U.S. presidents except Lincoln are in the Bad Place.
• There is a warehouse for Good Place Janets. The very existence of a Good Place Janet seems to indicate the existence of a Good Place.
• Mindy St. Claire is in a Medium Place, which seems to indicate the existence of a Good Place.
• There's a Judge who determines people's fate, and accountants who tally up their lives.
• Everyone going to a Bad Place regardless of how they live seems to contradict the philosophical teachings of the show.
• The title of the show is literally The Good Place.

Some of these can be explained away. And in fact, many of them were presented in a way that seems to intentionally keep the Good Place just out of sight.

The Good Place Janet Warehouse was not located in The Good Place.

The non-existence of the Good Place could be hidden even from the demons.

President Lincoln could be in some sort of Medium Place, or Michael was simply lying still at this point, or it could be a continuation of the lie being told by the Super Demons to keep the demons in line.

Maybe Mindy is not actually in a Medium Place, but her own personal Bad Place. She seemed to be tortured the entire time. (Until Janet sent her some company anyway. Wind chimes!)

I think Jacksonville Style Pool has a lot of symbolic meaning for the show. Everyone is just making up points on the spot. There are no rules.

Maybe even go a step further with it - since you make up your own points, whether you win or lose depends completely on you.

Did you live a life that you're happy with, or were you completely miserable while trying to live to someone else's standard? Doug Forcett is going to the Bad Place because he tried to live to according to the point system and made his own life miserable.

This meshes pretty well with what we're learning about the characters this season. Tahani always tried to please her parents and live up to her sister's reputation, but could never be happy living that way. Eleanor made herself miserable because she was angry at her mother, so her entire life was essentially wasted. Chidi attempted to weigh every decision according to every moral and philosophical principle he knew (which were often conflicting) but could never finish his own thesis.

Jason is the only one that's more difficult - he was certainly influenced into his lifestyle by Donkey Doug but I never felt he was anything less than happy with his life. Well, except he never got to see the Jags be a good team.

All that said, I have a feeling we're in for a big twist at the end of the season. What the twist is may depend a little on whether the show is renewed for a season 4. It's certainly not as easy to predict as the season 1 twist, but here are a few crazy theories:

• As said above, there is no Good Place. This makes most sense if there's a season 4 because I don't see the show giving us such a grim conclusion. Eleanor's Super Demon theory comes into play. (People have been suggesting this is really Michael's Bad Place since Season 1. It could easily be his Bad Place or his Good Place.) OR
• There is no Good Place, but Michael convinces the Judge to let him build one using his refined architect skills. This would make a good series finale because it would be difficult to show a satisfying Good Place, and better to leave it to the imagination. (Eternal torture is much easier to write than Eternal bliss.)
• Michael succeeds in rewriting the Point System. I'm not sure what this actually looks like, or exactly how the Brainy Bunch would be involved.
• They have actually been in the Good Place the entire time! The four six of them have continually been saving each other. They've continually been falling in love. And overcoming their weaknesses. And growing as people. If the standard vision of a Good Place is sitting around fat and content and happy for eternity - that seems like something that would one would grow weary of. Where repeatedly experiencing these things for the first time seems exciting. I.e. the difference between "falling in love" vs "being in love."
• Jason is the real Architect of the entire thing. This is something I predicted from early in S1 that still fits in a weird way.

[JessDVD]

OMG, this show! This episode was great, absolutely one where I had to pay total attention because I literally had no idea how it was going to turn out.

Doug Forcett! I'm so glad we got to see him and am unsurprised that his life is what it is, I'm expecting some kind of shake-up involving the points system (and I wouldn't be surprised if there were no actual Good Place at all but we'll see), but really, no matter what it'll be great.

Janet's badassery. Jacksonville style pool. Eleanor and Tahani. Eleanor and Chidi. I can't handle that we have two weeks off now and I really can't handle that we're off until January after that.

[Notwisconsin]

23 minutes ago, JessDVD said:

I can't handle that we have two weeks off now and I really can't handle that we're off until January after that.

Sure you can. Thanksgiving.

[Paloma]

56 minutes ago, ae2 said:

12 hours ago, vibeology said:

This is the first time I've ever really considered it, but how do we know the Good Place exists? Have we seen any actual proof? Sean seemed pretty confident that even Doug Forcette would end up in the Bad Place. Is it possible that there is no actual Good Place and everyone from the afterlife is a demon or is being lied to?

They have been intentionally vague about the existence of the Good Place. The best supporting evidence for it is

• Demons think it exists and have talked about it when not around the 4 humans.
• In the first season we learned all U.S. presidents except Lincoln are in the Bad Place.
• There is a warehouse for Good Place Janets. The very existence of a Good Place Janet seems to indicate the existence of a Good Place.
• Mindy St. Claire is in a Medium Place, which seems to indicate the existence of a Good Place.
• There's a Judge who determines people's fate, and accountants who tally up their lives.
• Everyone going to a Bad Place regardless of how they live seems to contradict the philosophical teachings of the show.
• The title of the show is literally The Good Place.

Some of these can be explained away. And in fact, many of them were presented in a way that seems to intentionally keep the Good Place just out of sight.

The Good Place Janet Warehouse was not located in The Good Place.

The non-existence of the Good Place could be hidden even from the demons.

President Lincoln could be in some sort of Medium Place, or Michael was simply lying still at this point, or it could be a continuation of the lie being told by the Super Demons to keep the demons in line.

Maybe Mindy is not actually in a Medium Place, but her own personal Bad Place. She seemed to be tortured the entire time. (Until Janet sent her some company anyway. Wind chimes!)

I think Jacksonville Style Pool has a lot of symbolic meaning for the show. Everyone is just making up points on the spot. There are no rules.

Maybe even go a step further with it - since you make up your own points, whether you win or lose depends completely on you.

Did you live a life that you're happy with, or were you completely miserable while trying to live to someone else's standard? Doug Forcett is going to the Bad Place because he tried to live to according to the point system and made his own life miserable.

This meshes pretty well with what we're learning about the characters this season. Tahani always tried to please her parents and live up to her sister's reputation, but could never be happy living that way. Eleanor made herself miserable because she was angry at her mother, so her entire life was essentially wasted. Chidi attempted to weigh every decision according to every moral and philosophical principle he knew (which were often conflicting) but could never finish his own thesis.

Jason is the only one that's more difficult - he was certainly influenced into his lifestyle by Donkey Doug but I never felt he was anything less than happy with his life. Well, except he never got to see the Jags be a good team.

All that said, I have a feeling we're in for a big twist at the end of the season. What the twist is may depend a little on whether the show is renewed for a season 4. It's certainly not as easy to predict as the season 1 twist, but here are a few crazy theories:

• As said above, there is no Good Place. This makes most sense if there's a season 4 because I don't see the show giving us such a grim conclusion. Eleanor's Super Demon theory comes into play. (People have been suggesting this is really Michael's Bad Place since Season 1. It could easily be his Bad Place or his Good Place.) OR
• There is no Good Place, but Michael convinces the Judge to let him build one using his refined architect skills. This would make a good series finale because it would be difficult to show a satisfying Good Place, and better to leave it to the imagination. (Eternal torture is much easier to write than Eternal bliss.)
• Michael succeeds in rewriting the Point System. I'm not sure what this actually looks like, or exactly how the Brainy Bunch would be involved.
• They have actually been in the Good Place the entire time! The four six of them have continually been saving each other. They've continually been falling in love. And overcoming their weaknesses. And growing as people. If the standard vision of a Good Place is sitting around fat and content and happy for eternity - that seems like something that would one would grow weary of. Where repeatedly experiencing these things for the first time seems exciting. I.e. the difference between "falling in love" vs "being in love."
• Jason is the real Architect of the entire thing. This is something I predicted from early in S1 that still fits in a weird way.

I don't usually like to copy long posts, but this is a great analysis by ae2! The only thing I don't see is why/how Jason would be the real Architect.

I have a question about Doug Forcett: is his character some kind of inside joke about Canadians? This is the impression I've gotten from a few comments but hadn't heard the name before and have no idea what the joke is (if any) about his name.