S37.E07: There's Gonna Be Tears Shed

[MisterBluxom]

19 minutes ago, marys1000 said:

<snip>

Dan doesnt strike me as much of a player

<snip>

Dan strikes me as very confused.

[Silver Raven]

I'm glad Angelina got called out for pretending to know military strategy when it's her husband that's in the Marines, but I wish it had been to her face.

They were calling Elizabeth "the chaos", so there must have been something about her that they didn't like.

[TaraS1]

Dan is the Jethro Bodine of Survivor. I eagerly await his eventual blindside. 

And I definitely agree that Elizabeth should have went to work on outing Angelina before they went to tribal. Her big plan had basically no chance of working after that. 

Glad Nick found his way into what could be a strong alliance going forward!

[Eolivet]

I'm trying to come up with an appropriate, descriptive adjective to describe Angelina, and I keep landing on:

She's so extra.

(also second unanimous post-merge vote in a row, and with 90% of Survivor winners in the majority in the first vote at the merge ... anyone -- ugh, anyone -- could still win!)

[ByaNose]

Yeah, unanimous vote with a lot of theatre. Was the whole Gabby & Angelina show an act? If so, they sure went through a lot of trouble. It’s like the producers said “We know it’s a unanimous vote but you could guys add some drama to Tribal Council?”  

[princelina]

1 hour ago, North of Eden said:

With that said what Elizabeth did was in all honesty pretty low down...Angelina was trying to save her and help her if only to get her way about Christian but the fact remains her intent was to keep Elizabeth in the game. For Elizabeth to turn around and do what she did...well it just casts her in a bad light.

I am curious (not snarking) as to what you think Elizabeth should have done with that information to save herself and stay in the game?  To me, telling on Angelina was her best move but she should have done it before they were all locked into their votes at TC.

 

30 minutes ago, Cutty said:

I don't understand Gabby's dog and pony show at tribal if she was just going along with voting out Elizabeth. Aggressive tear wipe! 

Jury management of course :D

[cooksdelight]

Angelina was hot and sweaty. If Elizabeth had looked at her and asked “You still need a jacket...dear?”

I’d be nominating her for an award for best reality show comeback.

[TVFan1]

It was kind of obvious that Elizabeth was going tonight. What was surprising was that the vote was unanimous for Elizabeth. Surprised that all of the Davids voted for her, but I guess I shouldn't be because it was probably "anyone but me".

I was trying to like Angelina, but after tonight, my opinion of her goes way down. She seems to be so entitled. It's either her way or the highway.

Alison won the first individual immunity challenge! Loved seeing her win. When she got emotional about her family seeing her win, I thought "Aw, I'm sure they are proud of you". I know I am!

[MisterBluxom]

I was struck by the way Jeff kept repeating, "Focus. Focus. Focus. You must keep your focus. Always keep your focus. Focus. Focus. Focus. "

Jeff Probst. What a kind and considerate fellow. Helping all those contestants to keep their focus by nattering in their ears repeatedly. That's the best way to help them keep their focus.

Isn't it?

[30 Helens]

The vote made perfect sense to me.  In a hypothetical situation where all members of Former Tribe A are still loyal to one another, they would definitely want to vote out a member of the minority Former Tribe B.  The B’s would not want to vote out one of their own, but without the ability to turn an A, they would go along with the vote in hopes of earning a way in, or  thinking “at least it’s not me”.  We’ve seen this happen many times.  

This time, we know that some members of Goliath are not, in fact, still loyal. But the other Goliaths don’t know that.  In order for the Gang of Six (look at me, making more dreaded nicknames) to hide their alliance, they must vote in a way that does not draw suspicion. The only way to do that is to vote is to follow the paradigm, and vote out a David.  The Davids in the alliance may have liked Elizabeth, but they couldn’t afford to make waves. They had to vote for a David anyway; why not her?  As for the Davids and Goliaths who are not in the Six, they WERE just following the paradigm.

Other notes:

I am quite sure that sign at the feast that said “everything you want is right here” was a clue to an advantage.  The camera just made too much of a point of zooming in on it.  It looked like the paper was loosely glued to the wood— I was thinking the clue was on the back of the paper. Too bad Gabby couldn’t stop crying long enough to actually look for it. (I like Gabby, but damn, girl, pull it together.)

Dan’s personal pep talk was silly, but also kind of endearing. I imagine a guy who goes through the kind of transformation he did must need a lot of self-motivation along the way. To my ears, it was just Fat Dan telling Ripped Dan he was worthy.

[Nashville]

2 hours ago, OutOfTheQuestion said:

The little picture of the "here" being under a tree makes me think it's a map.  But yeah, I 100 percent think that's a clue to an advantage or an idol.

Personally, I’d be looking to see if there’s anything on the other side of that “everything you need” piece of paper....

[blackwing]

16 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

I was struck by the way Jeff kept repeating, "Focus. Focus. Focus. You must keep your focus. Always keep your focus. Focus. Focus. Focus. "

Jeff Probst. What a kind and considerate fellow. Helping all those contestants to keep their focus by nattering in their ears repeatedly. That's the best way to help them keep their focus.

Isn't it?

Jeff simply loves the sound of his own voice.  He can’t simply allow the challenge to play out, he seems to feel like he needs to talk at all times and he comes across as a blustery blowhard.  “You need to concentrate, just one break and you’re out.  You gotta keep it moving without hitting the bar and losing momentum.  It just keeps getting harder and harder as your arm gets tired and your feet get tired.  But you just have to keep going.”   STFU Jeff.  

I’m also going to blame Jeff for the “newfangled” less predictable, surprise editing.  I get that they know viewers know the editing tricks but this was awful.  Elizabeth dig her own grave because Carl already disliked her.  Then she thought of herself as power player extraordinaire and targeted Dan.  It got back to Dan so then Dan decided to target her.  

But what was missing was at least a snippet of how and why all the other Davids gave up on trying to oust a Goliath.  No reasoning at all.

Angelina truly sucks.  Dan wanted Elizabeth out.  Angelina says no, she’s not a threat.  (It seemed to me that she was, since she was trying to band the Davids together.).  She says Christian and kind of assumes that they all agree.  They didn’t, it was obvious based on what John and Dan were muttering to each other as everyone walked away.  They decide on Elizabeth.  They tell Angelina.  Then she cries because “how can you do this to me, we all agreed, how can you make this decision when I wasn’t even there for it or consulted”.

She is as delusional as Natalie.  She forced the Christian decision on others with little discussion or consensus.  Then she gets upset when others don’t agree.  She complained about Natalie being bossy yet she is exactly the same way.

[MisterBluxom]

14 minutes ago, blackwing said:

<snip>

She is as delusional as Natalie.  She forced the Christian decision on others with little discussion or consensus.  Then she gets upset when others don’t agree.  She complained about Natalie being bossy yet she is exactly the same way.

<snip>

It's real interesting how so many things these people say turn out to apply mostly to themselves.

Elizabeth says, "I hate stupid people". Then she's voted out because she does something stupid.

Someone (very sorry I forget who it was) posted that Natalie was her own pet peeve - which was a great way to put it. The reason? Natalie behaved in a way that was exactly what she said in her bio that was her pet peeve.

Now this douchebag complains about Natalie being bossy yet she is just as bossy as Natalie (although in a different way).

I wonder how many times people on this show complain about a kind of behavior that is identical to their own behavior. Talk about being "willfully blind".

[GaT]

13 hours ago, Cutty said:

I don't understand Gabby's dog and pony show at tribal if she was just going along with voting out Elizabeth. Aggressive tear wipe! 

I'm very confused by that also, I'm confused why all the Davids voted out Elizabeth. The whole thing is confusing. I think Elizabeth should have said something to the Goliaths that afternoon, & not waited for TC. She caught everyone unawares, & they had no time to really think about it. If she had given them enough time to change their minds, they might have voted out Angelina instead.

Edited November 8, 2018 by GaT
word

[EllenB]

I hope Gaby never has to build a fire at TC.  All her weeping would dampen the tinder.

[MissEwa]

That was confusing and disappointing. I don't get what Gabby was going for if she then voted for Elizabeth anyway. I also don't get why any of the special chosen alliance Davids were fine with the Goliaths in their alliance being all 'oh, we're going to flip, but first we're going to vote out a couple of Davids so you guys will have less power when we do'. They're not *actually* with you if they openly say they're voting against your best interests, even if it is only for now, just getting rid of a couple of your other options now, but later... 

I kept waiting for a David to even suggest that the Goliaths could flip right away and none of them did. Is Gabby right? Are they all just content to play as Davids and take the scraps and be grateful it's not them?

(As an aside, WHY did Nick insist on naming all his meaningless two-person "alliances" but not his ACTUAL alliance? It makes posting about it so much more word-consuming.)

I can only assume there was more to the Elizabeth story than we were shown. I feel like you don't get unanimously voted out like that for no reason, especially when Angelina was RIGHT THERE as an option that would not have surprised anyone or burned any bridges for any of the Davids. I try to avoid the spoiler thread but if anyone has insider intel, I'd love to hear it. It just doesn't make much sense to me otherwise. 

Angelina is gross and a hypocrite. Her little 'I'm a good person, I would never just do something for jury votes' thing, only a couple of episodes after jacketgate? Lol. I want her downfall to be brutal. 

[HeShallBMySquishy]

5 hours ago, ghoulina said:

Tears were shed alright. I'm a cried and even I'M getting tied of Gabby's. I do admire how fiery she is, not willing to just lay down and die. But she's got a secret alliance, so maybe she should chill some.

It would have been awesome to see Angelina go. She was totally pandering for a jury vote. But I didn't think the Goliaths would vote her out just yet. She better watch her back, though. 

Overall, this was a great episode in what has turned into a really great season. There's just do many interesting players and people are PLAYING. I'm kind of excited about this strike force alliance. I really just like so many people, it's going to get hard real soon. 

Funniest moment - Dan pep taking himself during the challenge. "Keep telling yourself you're awesome." Dude, wow.

 

5 hours ago, Haleth said:

What the????  What was that whole performance at TC when everyone voted for Elizabeth anyway?  What was with Gabby's tears when she voted out her own tribe mate?  

Ugh, Angelina is a brat.  So is Dan.

ITA. I don't find Gabby's tears as irritating as others, but I sure found her "upset and tearful" performance to be exactly that. She just came across so phony, like she woke up that day and decided, "I'm going to be an actress today!" And that was her very first acting performance ever. It was cringey!

I strongly disliked Angelina from the start, with her reaction to seeing the Davids for the first time in the premiere, and that hasn't changed much. But I find it fascinating in a trainwreck way how she manages to look even more obnoxious every time she opens her mouth. I'm actually wanting to see how far she sticks around, just to see how long the other fools on the tribe are willing to put up with her bossy know-it-all attitude, and then turn around and not vote her out.

Dan can go anytime. He's a good-looking guy who wears underwear well and I'd be willing to put up with him if that's all he was (a lunkhead in his underwear), but I find him super-annoying, and have since he completely dismissed Kara's very sensible suggestion that he bury his first idol. I like Kara alot though, and I hope she goes further in the game. She's certainly far more level-headed than the lunkhead who is crushing on her, but then you could say that about any piece of driftwood, bobbing aimlessly.

[loki567]

For such an obvious boot, I loved the episode. I love when the editors give us an episode where they actually depict what really playing a game of Survivor would look like. You have: 

An easy target that everybody knows is the easy target.

An obvious majority alliance that while being in complete control, can't help but over-complicate things with passive-aggressive sniping.

Members of that majority alliance who are doing some gaming on the sly to prepare for the next stage of the game. 

The minority group who are frustrated by not being in the decision making but have to accept the majority's decision and pray it's not them. 

Finally, desperate flailing by the eventual bootee. 

 

This season has just been so well-edited, with such good development of all the various characters and relationships that it all makes sense. 

[KimberStormer]

I am loving this season.  I am, especially, loving this new, avant-garde (for Survivor) editing.  The little snippet of Angelina taking a deep breath and saying to herself, "I got this," -- smash cut to black, roll commercial -- that felt like it was from some prestige drama on HBO, not stolid old Survivor.

I am also loving the cast, which is really that upon which any Survivor season lives or dies.  Theme, twists, locations, nothing really matters except casting; a good cast will make the stupidest theme look good, and no twist no matter how abstractly interesting can survive a collision with a bad cast.  Natalie was an amazing casting coup but Angelina is right up there, because of the fascinating combination of her determination to be devious and her complete and utter transparency in everything.  Every emotion is nearly as obvious on her face as on Michaela's.  Her attempts to curry favor with the voted-out are hilariously overt.  She thinks she's being subtle controlling the vote ("People dictating is exactly what we were trying to avoid!" she says, after dictating the vote to her entire alliance) but everyone is painfully aware of it.  It's also great that her ideas are good but execution horrendous, in "you're not wrong, Walter, you're just an asshole" fashion.  I would be remiss if I didn't point out that she is geing a lulu of a negative edit and people should be mindful of that when deciding just how much they hate her stupid face...that's what you're supposed to think, you know?

But what's nice is a lot of people are being active players, even if badly.  Alec is such a doof and his Natalia move was so bananas, but he impressed me somewhat this episode.  He was much more effectively subtle than Angelina when it came to changing the vote for his own benefit, and was canny in identifying that if he allowed the Christian vote and burned his new secret alliance then his credibility would be shot with everyone.  He's arrogant and being edited smug and it's hard to imagine him succeeding in his master plan, but I can enjoy the thinking and the effort.  Allison, having been airdropped onto the island last episode, proves to be just fine herself, smart and competent, the sort of player the producers think is boring, but I'm intrigued to see more.  I was loving Dan and John's dismay at the prospect of voting out Christian, and Dan's pep-talk to himself during the challenge was just a wonderful detail -- almost like something out of Total Drama Island, but in real life!

If I'm honest, the Goliaths are much more interesting to me than the Davids currently.  The Davids are just as dysfunctional but not in an interesting way.  Carl throwing Elizabeth under the bus was I suppose understandable, but like....who does Carl have?  Nobody, right?  And during the whole episode we see Elizabeth constantly talking to him, trying to work with him.  We didn't hear anything out of Davie or Nick this episode, and really not much from Christian either.  We did hear from Gabby...

5 hours ago, Cutty said:

I don't understand Gabby's dog and pony show at tribal if she was just going along with voting out Elizabeth. Aggressive tear wipe! 

Good episode. Anticlimactic boot. 

What's interesting is, most of Elizabeth's plan was actually Gabby's.  She's the one who suggested blowing up Angelina's game.  As @princelina mentions, Gabby too has a jury to think about...but did she orchaestrate the whole thing to keep the target on Elizabeth???  Or something?  I mean usually it turns out that schemes are never actually complicated on Survivor even when they seem to be (unless Cirie is involved) but I almost wonder if it wasn't an elaborate form of throwing Elizabeth under the bus, in a way that drags Angelina under the wheels as well...

I will say that, at the time, when I thought she was with Elizabeth, I thought her performance at tribal was just totally terrible.  Angelina seemed legitimately thrown off-balance by Elizabeth's aggressiveness...but Gabby's weeping brought her fully back in control.  I speak from the bitter experience of someone who cries and crumples at any sort of conflict: this sort of show of weakness just puts your opponent on stronger footing, as we saw here.  When Gabby was done with her aggressive tear wiping, Angelina was comfortable and confident again, and I thought Gabby had just absolutely torpedoed Elizabeth's game and any hope for the Davids coming out on top.  But since everyone voted Elizabeth, the only thing that makes sense to me is that it was simply exactly what Angelina was doing, a ploy for Elizabeth's vote.

5 hours ago, LanceM said:

Twelve people don't all decide to vote the same person at tc . This was a plan that was obviously put in place before they got there.  So no, Angelina was not trying to save Elizabeth. 

Well, there was an awful lot of whispering and walking around during tribal (and not one complaint about it here, to my amazement!)  I'm sure they were all just telling each other "don't worry, stick to the plan" or something, but it's weird it came to that.  I don't know how to guess what actually went down here.  Which is annoying, but I suppose we'll hear about it in exit interviews, and it will turn out to be dreadfully boring and disappointing.

1 hour ago, MissEwa said:

(As an aside, WHY did Nick insist on naming all his meaningless two-person "alliances" but not his ACTUAL alliance? It makes posting about it so much more word-consuming.)

Well, my guess is he doesn't want his alliances to know he's been naming other alliances -- it's supposed to be their own special secret handshake.  Since two of his named alliances (or more?  I forget who was in the one before Mason & Dixon?) are in this new alliance, he can't really make a new named alliance without removing the special secretness of the old ones.

As for Elizabeth, it seems she was another in a long line of weird unsatisfying merge boots, though at least she didn't go down without a fight.  She was so strong early on, but seemed to really lose it last episode, which I can only blame on her back pain, and losing Lyrsa last week surely hurt her chances of getting numbers on her side.  At least she remained active, trying to determine her own fate in the game instead of shuffling to the slaughter -- but I mean, "DAN AND KARA ARE A PAIR!  BOOM!" as a revelation?  Carl reacted as anyone would have: "uhhh....yeah, we know."

[Ellee]

Lol at the Goliaths deciding which David to vote out .... wait a minute ... let me finish ... let me finish ... ( :D ) Christian  it is ... flash to Angelina messing with Christian’s hair and talking with Christian.   Decision changes to Elizabeth and then Angelina tells Elizabeth it’s Elizabeth going complete with worked up tears ...

If Angelina wants to manage the jury, she might be better positioned to do so as an early member of the jury. Just saying. 

Another thought ... Elizabeth was having trouble with her back and sleeping ... maybe she was ready to go and willing to set up Angelina to be the next.  It will be interesting to see the changes if any Angelina makes or if she reads the votes as a plus for Angelina being Angelina.

[violet and green]

Bugger. I was hoping Elizabeth would get to stay.

There was one fantastic moment at tribal when Gabby flicked a tear so hard it must have hit Angelina several feet away, like a glassy little shintaro star-knife.

[JudyObscure]

9 hours ago, PaperTree said:

Sorry Dan, your're not "the man". 

And he stood there fuming and almost crying while calling Elizabeth childish.

8 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Tonight was the first time I believed that Gabby could manufacture those tears at will.

Her tears are starting to seem pretty manipulative to me, it makes me wonder how many times in her life she has used them to get her way.  I really think she might have messed it up for the Davids at Tribal. After Elizabeth squealed on Angelina the Goliaths were all  indignant, muttering that Angelina was already playing to the jury.  Then Gabby started to cry and whine about how mean the Goliaths were and I think the criticism  renewed their sense of solidarity.

8 hours ago, North of Eden said:

With that said what Elizabeth did was in all honesty pretty low down...Angelina was trying to save her and help her if only to get her way about Christian but the fact remains her intent was to keep Elizabeth in the game.

Yes, it only took about two seconds for someone to talk her into throwing Angelina under the bus when for all she knew Angelina had been  sincere.

[Haleth]

I'm hoping from the point of view of the 6 person Counter alliance that the whole kerfuffle of Angelina vs Elizabeth was to deflect attention from Christian.  I'm not sure Gabby can pull off that kind of sneaky performance but we know she has a mad crush on Christian.  Still I can't understand why she was fighting so hard for Elizabeth and the Davids and then turned around and voted for Eliz anyway if it was not a scripted part of their scheme.  (That's one vote Gabby won't get from the jury.)  The result of making the Goliaths suspicious of Angelina was good for the Counters.

I like this new Allison person. 

Dan can just shut it with his righteous indignation about his name being brought up.  Has he never watched the show?  Flaunting your relationship (be it with Kara or John) is not going to sit well with others.

I will be shocked to hear if the "All you need!" note didn't have a clue on the back.  It seemed so obvious.

Edited November 8, 2018 by Haleth

[Kenzie]

5 hours ago, MissEwa said:

That was confusing and disappointing. I don't get what Gabby was going for if she then voted for Elizabeth anyway. I also don't get why any of the special chosen alliance Davids were fine with the Goliaths in their alliance being all 'oh, we're going to flip, but first we're going to vote out a couple of Davids so you guys will have less power when we do'. They're not *actually* with you if they openly say they're voting against your best interests, even if it is only for now, just getting rid of a couple of your other options now, but later... 

I kept waiting for a David to even suggest that the Goliaths could flip right away and none of them did. Is Gabby right? Are they all just content to play as Davids and take the scraps and be grateful it's not them?

(As an aside, WHY did Nick insist on naming all his meaningless two-person "alliances" but not his ACTUAL alliance? It makes posting about it so much more word-consuming.)

I can only assume there was more to the Elizabeth story than we were shown. I feel like you don't get unanimously voted out like that for no reason, especially when Angelina was RIGHT THERE as an option that would not have surprised anyone or burned any bridges for any of the Davids. I try to avoid the spoiler thread but if anyone has insider intel, I'd love to hear it. It just doesn't make much sense to me otherwise. 

Angelina is gross and a hypocrite. Her little 'I'm a good person, I would never just do something for jury votes' thing, only a couple of episodes after jacketgate? Lol. I want her downfall to be brutal. 

I have to admit I really enjoyed watching her sweat and squirm when she was called out by Elizabeth.

[cooksdelight]

I would love to know if they had to stop and reset the challenge, given the fact Jeff couldn’t keep his mouth shut. It happens, but we never get to see the great and mighty Jeff Probst screw up a challenge.

[ProfCrash]

Thoughts on the Goliaths:

I would have been thrilled if Angelina went home. She is not a villain, she is not a mastermind. She is a bland player who thinks she is something else. I am not sure what she is, I just want her gone. The idea that she was going to use military strategy because her husband is a Marine so she knows military strategy was offensive. And arrogant. But I was offended by her arrogance.

Dan did not exactly play that all that smoothly either. He is someone who wants to be a mastermind but doesn't quite have the ability to be a mastermind. Alec falls into the same camp.

That said, at least the three of them are playing the game. I'll take people who are trying to do things even if they are not as good as they think they are over the folks who sit in the background and do nothing.

John and Mike are playing good games. They are involved in the decision making and setting up alliances without being totally obvious. There is a smoothness to their play that is fun to watch. John is smoother then Mike but that could be that we have not seen John have to maneuver much for tribal.

Alison had a nice win at the immunity challenge and some good comments at Tribal. She might have been in the background simply because she did not form an adorable misfit bond like John and Christian and her tribe really has not gone to challenges. I suspect we are going to see more of her now that the merge has happened.

Kara is invisible.

Thoughts on the Davids:

Christian has a larger target on his back then he knows. His fractals (sp) comment at tribal was great. And then Alison's acceptance of the term and Dan's joking "that is what I was going to say" and John's "Yup, Dan just whispered that to me, you couldn't hear him." It was fun. They all seem to embrace Christian's knowledge and inability to not blurt out a concept that few people really know or understand. I suspect that Christian's likability makes him a target and I hope he is not counting on his various alliances to shield him.

Gabby is in a weird place. I don't think the tears are going to help her in the long run. I suspect that people see her as weak. She seems to carry her weight at camp and get along fine with folks but her continued "playing from the bottom" and it is so sad spiel is not going to win her points. She comes off as desperate and not a fighter. I understand where she is coming from but she clearly does not understand how to navigate, or try to navigate, a complex social environment.

Nick is willing to use his alliances but he is playing about as smoothly as Angelina and Dan and Alec. He is making an effort and working hard but there is an edge to how he is playing.

I have no idea what Davie is doing.

I do not like Carl. I don't like his attitude or how he responds to things. His anger over Elizabeth's trying to fix the shelter, because her bamboo splitting interrupted his nap, was selfish and over the top. I don't find him expressive, I find his passive aggressive and annoying. I think I might want him gone more then Angelina. At least I can see how Angelina is playing the game, Carl is sulky and vindictive.

I am not sure what Elizabeth did to annoy Carl and Davie so much. It has to be more then the bamboo in the shelter. Carl seemed annoyed that Elizabeth had did what everyone else had done and seemed to think she was so awesome but I can't say that we saw any of that. We did see the whole horse conversation with Kara but they both rode the same type of horse and were excited about a shared hobby. There has been time to show more of Elizabeth being annoying so I suspect it is more Carl being passive aggressive then Elizabeth being that annoying. I think that she was a challenge threat and an easy target because Carl and Davie were willing to target her. I don't think she had a tight bond with anyone else from the Davids, which indicates that she had failed at the early social game.

[cujo]

Looks like Angelina is back on the releasing statement trail trying to spin last nights events again:

"My husband and I are aware that he's in the Marines and I am not. But we're one. So while he's deployed I watch highlights of great moments of military history on YouTube and Netflix. While it is unfortunate that Elizabeth can't handle the truth she was the vote I made a misstep when my brain felt the need, the need for speed and overreacted when I told her she was going to be the boot. It still confounds me when all of the General Goliaths went against me, Sergeant Major, in their efforts of saving Private Christian."

 

*EDIT: not an actual statement from Angela... just making a spoof of her original statement from "showmance gate" and I did a similar one on "jacket gate" thread ;)

Edited November 8, 2018 by cujo

[Rachel RSL]

Is she delusional? She thinks watching You Tube and Netflix is “being one” with someone who is actually deployed? Good lord, woman!

(Edited because the post above me was changed. That's not what was written there when I responded so I guess my post just looks dumb now.)

Edited November 14, 2018 by Rachel RSL

[Eolivet]

3 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

I would be remiss if I didn't point out that she is geing a lulu of a negative edit and people should be mindful of that when deciding just how much they hate her stupid face...that's what you're supposed to think, you know?

I almost think that makes it worse, because while I agree her edit is bad, you can see it playing out in her mind, thinking how smart she is, and what a brilliant move this or that was. I don't like to throw around the word "delusional," but I feel like a majority of our reality villains have an awareness about them -- yeah, I'm bad, I know it, "I'm not here to make friends!" Or "you people are fools for believing me," "I can't believe they bought that lie," etc.

It's interesting you bring up Michaela -- who was the ultimate "I am what I am, and I apologize to no one for it." I find Angelina almost the polar opposite. "But how could you possibly go against my amazing plan, because I'm only looking out for you, and you totally don't realize I'm manipulating you myself." Except it is obvious. Could that be editing? Maybe. But she's so patently bad at this part of Survivor that if the edit told me they were buying what she was selling, I'd feel like we were in Redemption Island 2.0 because nobody can be that stupid, right?

Chrissy was the last woman who was arguably edited into a villain, but she ruled her alliance with an iron fist. Angelina's supposed role models, Parvati and Natalie Anderson had strong relationships, and mostly made themselves aware of the goings on of the tribe. By contrast, Angelina has little real power, little evidence of a strong alliance or anyone who trusts her implicitly, and yet she thinks she's running the show. In her mind, she's a great hero. The edit wants us to buy her as a villain. I don't think she has character enough for either.

I see her as much better fitting in on what Millennials vs Gen X was supposed to be rather than David vs Goliath. Her key attribute isn't her success. Rather, she is what every Internet troll who rails against millennials thinks of them --  someone who's been told she's special all her life, believes it, and is absolutely convinced that everyone else sees it, too.

[cujo]

29 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

Is she delusional? She thinks watching You Tube and Netflix is “being one” with someone who is actually deployed? Good lord, woman!

Sorry to confuse you. That's a fake statement from Angelina ;).

[MisterBluxom]

53 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

<snip>

I am not sure what Elizabeth did to annoy Carl and Davie so much.

<snip>

I'd like to take a guess at this. I can't know for sure. But I get the feeling that Elizabeth never talked to Carl or Davie - never engaged them at all. That may have set up the suspicion in their minds that she was more than just a "redneck". Maybe they thought she had something against them for some unspoken reason?  Maybe they felt it? Maybe it was true even though it was something she never said?

I'm afraid of saying just what that "unspoken something" might have been.  It seems to me like that subject may just be a "Taboo" with many people.  But if people ever want to overcome something, don't they have to talk about it?

[ghoulina]

11 hours ago, dkb said:

I think that Angelina is just petty. She probably thought by telling Elizabeth that it was her, that maybe Elizabeth would go and try to change the vote to someone else from David. Then there would be more drama and discussion and then she could be like, I told you it was the easy thing to do to vote Christian. Cause if this was jury management she isn't very good at it.

Well, I definitely don't think she's as smart as SHE thinks she is. I do believe she has been trying to keep herself on people's good sides. She was all syrupy sweet with Natalie when the latter was on her way out. 

That being said, I do think you're on to something with the pettiness. She wanted Christian and they all went against her and settled on Elizabeth. So she was all pissed off and thought, "Fine. You want to vote Elizabeth, I'll just let her know." 

11 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

Looking at the big picture, Elizabeth seemed like a stupid vote.  She literally had no one.  Maybe she annoyed people, but why her?

I think the Goliaths know they aren't going to stay solid forever. They want to keep the numbers; but, as individuals, they probably all have different people they don't want to piss off in case they need them down the road. When they're ready to make a move. Elizabeth not having anyone was probably why it was easier to just go with her. 

 

11 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Speaking of people potentially blowing up their game - um Dan, the point of Survivor is to vote people out and be the last one standing. Dude's reaction to Elizabeth throwing out his name was so ridiculous and Kara's reaction to it was spot on

That sealed the deal for me with Dan. I cannot stand people who take the game so personally and take such umbrage at their name being thrown out. Don't want your name brought up? Don't fucking go on Survivor. 

[phlebas]

Was "momentum" the right word there?  It's been awhile since I took physics.

[Ms Blue Jay]

5 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

If I'm honest, the Goliaths are much more interesting to me than the Davids currently.  The Davids are just as dysfunctional but not in an interesting way.  Carl throwing Elizabeth under the bus was I suppose understandable, but like....who does Carl have?  Nobody, right?  And during the whole episode we see Elizabeth constantly talking to him, trying to work with him.  We didn't hear anything out of Davie or Nick this episode, and really not much from Christian either.  We did hear from Gabby...

The Davids have been a huge disappointment to me.  I like Carl and Davie, but they are just about playing the worst games.  What's their plan?  To be Pagong'd after Elizabeth?  It's so terrible so far.  This Outside 6 or whatever the hell they call themselves, of course I don't really care about any of those players besides maybe Christian.  Honestly I don't understand Carl going after Elizabeth.  It makes zero sense.  In a crowd of (what is it 13?) someone annoying is so much easier to ignore.  Just ignore her and convince someone to vote out a Goliath.  At least try.  He's way too shortsighted.  

[JudyObscure]

1 hour ago, ProfCrash said:

I would have been thrilled if Angelina went home. She is not a villain, she is not a mastermind. She is a bland player who thinks she is something else. I am not sure what she is, I just want her gone. The idea that she was going to use military strategy because her husband is a Marine so she knows military strategy was offensive. And arrogant. But I was offended by her arrogance.

I was  offended by her arrogance only.  My husband spent 22 years in the military but I never heard him talk 'military strategy," yet all that stuff Angelina spouted was familiar to me due to all the action movies I've had to sit through, just as her business-speak about using intentional words, etc. was familiar to me even though I'm not part of that world.  Unfortunately hard driving business words have trickled down to church committees these days, thanks to books like, "The Purpose Driven Life."  That's where Angelina's amazing arrogance comes in, she clearly thinks she's the only one who has encountered any of this stuff.  She must be an instructor's dream because she's like a sponge for it all and spews it back like it's revelations from a Tibetan mountain top.

[Nashville]

If you’re (a) in the David minority and (b) know the Goliath majority is unilaterally targeting one individual for the eviction vote, someone please enlighten me as to how voting against that majority bloc advances your game - unless of course you are employing a daring new strategy which involves painting a barn-sized target on your back, in which case I’d say you’re doing fine.  :)

Elizabeth’s departure was a fact; there was no saving her, so throwing a sympathy vote at an alternate target accomplishes little except to give that alternate (and the alternate’s alliance) justification to target you or someone else in your alliance.

(Just not understanding all the David-directed vitriol...)

And as a side note: While her histrionics may have been more than a little OTT, I’d say Gabby did a helluva lot better job of jury management than Angelina ever thought of.  ;)

 

30 minutes ago, phlebas said:

Was "momentum" the right word there?  It's been awhile since I took physics.

“Inertia!  Inertia!”   ;>

[peachmangosteen]

7 hours ago, MissEwa said:

I also don't get why any of the special chosen alliance Davids were fine with the Goliaths in their alliance being all 'oh, we're going to flip, but first we're going to vote out a couple of Davids so you guys will have less power when we do'. They're not *actually* with you if they openly say they're voting against your best interests, even if it is only for now, just getting rid of a couple of your other options now, but later... 

Fucking right! Goliaths: "OK guys, we're totally an alliance, but lets vote a bunch of former Davids out first and keep all the Goliaths because that's totally best for all of us!" Davids: "Sounds like the perfect plan!" Fucking idiots.

This ep really ramped up my fear that this season will be just like last season with a frustratingly dull and predictable post-merge and finale. Sigh.

Gabby will be the new Laurel, having a confessional every ep about how she needs to make a move against the Goliaths but never going for it and instead just being a weak follower all game. Boring.

Carl is an asshole. It's still kinda funny though.

Dan and Angelina are both equally awful, but somehow still entertaining and interesting at the same time. Dan's pep talk to himself had me rolling. But every other minute of him in this ep was awful. I loved Kara's eyeroll over him losing it over Elizabeth targeting him.

I still think this is gonna be a boring, predictable pagoning of most of the Davids, but at the same time they really seem to be setting both Dan and Alec up for epic blindsides. I hope so!

Edited November 8, 2018 by peachmangosteen

[Nashville]

47 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Fucking right! Goliaths: "OK guys, we're totally an alliance, but lets vote a bunch of former Davids out first and keep all the Goliaths because that's totally best for all of us!" Davids: "Sounds like the perfect plan!" Fucking idiots.

What the hell else are the Davids gonna say -  “Gee, Goliaths, we think it would be better for everybody if y’all were to vote out a couple of your own first”???  Not a lot of alternative responses available which are likely to promote game longevity in that conversation.  ;>

 

ETA: nvm - totally missed the context of the quote.  I plead caffeine deprivation.

Edited November 8, 2018 by Nashville

[seacliffsal]

Part of the joy for me in watching last night's episode was Angelina's total lack of self-awareness being exposed.  In the very first episode she spoke about what a master manipulator she was and how she could get anybody to do anything she wanted-and she used getting out of tickets as an example.  Well, I certainly hope that all of the police and highway patrol officers in her area are getting to know who she is and will never let her go again.  Anyway, back to Survivor... The episode in which Natalie was voted out and Angelina made a play for her jacket-first by hugging her and then by begging-was epic in that Natalie did not fall for her theatrics.  Then, during this episode, she tried to manipulate her alliance through the use of military terms and "strategies" which several players identified as attempts to manipulate them even while Angelina was interviewing about how smart she was to intentionally use those terms.  Then, after believing that she had chosen Christian as the target she was taken aback and had a mini-tantrum once she found out that, no, that target was actually Elizabeth.  And then, in her final manipulative act of the episode she told Elizabeth that she was the target.  I believe that it was both jury manipulation as well as hoping that Elizabeth could get the target put back on Christian.  Angelina's response once Elizabeth spelled the beans showed that she had no idea that her great plan would come back to haunt her.  So, in other words, no Angelina, you are not a master manipulator.

As to why the Davids all voted for Elizabeth, I would imagine that they tried to float a Goliath's name but did not find any takers from the Goliaths, and in not wanting to put targets on their own backs, went along with the plan.  I don't think Carl wanted to change his vote away from Elizabeth as he has mentioned several times within the last couple of episodes that he didn't like her and wanted her gone.  When the group of six spoke about their alliance, they stated that their plan was to whittle down the numbers until they had the majority and then they would go into action.  

I am so enjoying this season!

[peachmangosteen]

8 minutes ago, Nashville said:

What the hell else are the Davids gonna say -  “Gee, Goliaths, we think it would be better for everybody if y’all were to vote out a couple of your own first”??? 

I mean, yea. That's exactly what Mike/Alec/Alison did so why can't the other members of this supposed alliance suggest an alternate plan? If the alliance is real (it's probably not really), then the Golaiths should be willing to listen at least. For Nick/Christian/Gabby to just easily agree to getting out a bunch of people who could help them later to let Alec/Alison/Mike have their pick of people they could work with later is asinine. At least suggest it to see how they react and get a feel for if they're really in on this or not! Otherwise you're just another fucking Laurel and this is just another Ghost Island.

Edited November 8, 2018 by peachmangosteen

[blackwing]

4 minutes ago, Nashville said:

What the hell else are the Davids gonna say -  “Gee, Goliaths, we think it would be better for everybody if y’all were to vote out a couple of your own first”???  Not a lot of alternative responses available which are likely to promote game longevity in that conversation.  ;>

Why not?  We saw that some of the Davids were close to some of the Goliaths.   Alec and Mike in particular seemed like they could have been swayed to work with the Davids.  Especially Alec.  He had already picked out his endgame alliance of three from each tribe.  He was clearly willing to vote out Goliaths at earlier tribals so I don’t understand why the Davids he was close to wouldn’t have tried to get him to go along with an Angelina vote.

Although for all we know, the Davids did try, in which case I’d say that’s poor editing.

It was hilarious how Angelina talked in the confessional about how her husband is a Marine so she knows all the military jargon so she purposely spouted out that military jargon because she thought that would make her idea appealing to the macho brohunks John and Dan.  Then Dan talks about how he saw right through her.  Hah.

[preeya]

8 hours ago, MissEwa said:

That was confusing and disappointing. I don't get what Gabby was going for if she then voted for Elizabeth anyway. I

And I don't get Angelina's little secret speech to Elizabeth before TC. They targeted Elizabeth, and everyone voted for her. What was the purpose of the talk?

[ProfCrash]

2 minutes ago, preeya said:

And I don't get Angelina's little secret speech to Elizabeth before TC. They targeted Elizabeth, and everyone voted for her. What was the purpose of the talk?

Jury Management, which everyone identified at Tribal. Allison very clearly said that Angelina was trying to get Elizabeth's vote at final tribal council. The problem is that Angelina is as smooth as gravel and everyone saw what she was doing for what it was.

[Special K]

The mixed-6 alliance said that the plan was to pretend to pursue a David pagonging for a few votes, until the 6 had the numbers to begin picking off the Goliaths.  That way the "true" Goliaths aren't wise to the "betrayal" of the Goliaths in the mixed-6.  Unfortunately, Elizabeth's ouster was just about that long-range plan and not really about her personally (except for maybe Carl's vote and, eventually, Angelina's). 

I like the 6 and hope they can pull it off.

I really hate Angelina.  The editors are having a field day making her look like a fool, though.

Gabby can quit with the histrionics and tear-flicking any time now.

[Nashville]

21 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I mean, yea. That's exactly what Mike/Alec/Alison did so why can't the other members of this supposed alliance suggest an alternate plan? If the alliance is real (it's probably not really), then the Golaiths should be willing to listen at least. For Nick/Christian/Gabby to just easily agree to getting out a bunch of people who could help them later to let Alec/Alison/Mike have their pick of people they could work with later is asinine. At least suggest it to see how they react and get a feel for if they're really in on this or not! Otherwise you're just another fucking Laurel and this is just another Ghost Island.

 

16 minutes ago, blackwing said:

Why not?  We saw that some of the Davids were close to some of the Goliaths.   Alec and Mike in particular seemed like they could have been swayed to work with the Davids.  Especially Alec.  He had already picked out his endgame alliance of three from each tribe.  He was clearly willing to vote out Goliaths at earlier tribals so I don’t understand why the Davids he was close to wouldn’t have tried to get him to go along with an Angelina vote.

Although for all we know, the Davids did try, in which case I’d say that’s poor editing.

It was hilarious how Angelina talked in the confessional about how her husband is a Marine so she knows all the military jargon so she purposely spouted out that military jargon because she thought that would make her idea appealing to the macho brohunks John and Dan.  Then Dan talks about how he saw right through her.  Hah.

Y’all are right, and don’t mind me.  Never hit “Submit” in the morning if you haven’t already hit some caffeine first.

[ProfCrash]

4 minutes ago, Special K said:

The mixed-6 alliance said that the plan was to pretend to pursue a David pagonging for a few votes, until the 6 had the numbers to begin picking off the Goliaths.  That way the "true" Goliaths aren't wise to the "betrayal" of the Goliaths in the mixed-6.  Unfortunately, Elizabeth's ouster was just about that long-range plan and not really about her personally (except for maybe Carl's vote and, eventually, Angelina's). 

I like the 6 and hope they can pull it off.

And that works great for Alec, Mike and Dan (I think he was the other one) but not so good for Nick, Christian and Gabby. Alec, Mike and Dan will have more people that they can work with while Nick, Christian and Gabby end up more and more tied to the Goliaths. And Nick, Christian and Gabby look like back stabbers because they voted out people from their original tribe. So how is this good for them?

Nick could have easily said "Hey, I voted out Lyrsa to help you last week Mike. This week we vote out a Goliath. How about Angelina?" The Davids seem to be willing to accept that they are low in the numbers and as such have no leverage. We did not see any of them attempt to change the vote. If the six had approached Elizabeth, they could have voted out Angelina. They could have even justified it by saying "Angelina told Elizabeth that she was the target hoping that Elizabeth would be able to switch the target. Angelina is not with us."

For all we know there was some of that happening and we were not shown it. But right now it looks like the Davids are simply accepting that they are screwed. It doesn't help that Davie and Carl have largely been absent and had a grudge for some unknown reason against Elizabeth.

But I am not impressed with the Davids. They rolled over and showed their bellies. Christian is fully caught up in the mastermind mindset and totally willing to buy into elaborate plans because they sound cool. Gabby is meek and unwilling to make a move on her own. Nick is more interested in naming alliances then actually attempting to lead.

On the Goliath side, Dan and Alec are trying to play but are not the best at the game. They are trying though and see that they can't stick with the Goliaths. Dan was annoyed that Elizabeth targeted him. I get being annoyed at being targeted. Yes, it is part of the game but why should Dan be ok with it? No one seems to have a problem with the idea that people defend themselves in the game, that is what Dan was doing. Elizabeth targeted Dan. Dan went on the offensive to remove the person targeting him. I see that as legit play and smart play. Remove the person trying to remove you. Good tactics there. Alec is playing for the big moves, hence voting out Natalia. Not the brightest game but at least he has a good enough read on the Goliath alliance to know he should look elsewhere.

Mike seems to be playing the best game right now. He is not a threat physically. He is tied into both the Davids and the Goliaths.

John is hurting his game by staying Goliath strong. He is too big a target and the other Goliaths are legit physical threats. Dan and Alec can challenge John. He has good in roads with Christian and maybe Gabby but he is not using those.

[CountryGirl]

I have to admit, I was really hoping to see Queen Bee Angelina go, but at least got to watch some of the entitled smuggery wiped off her face (until it was obvious Elizabeth was the one going). She can also lose me with her husband being a Marine somehow vicariously making her one. Girl, bye.

I can't fault Elizabeth's fellow Goliaths for making it a unanimous vote - I mean, they had absolutely nothing to gain, not having the numbers so might as well fall in line this go-round.

While Gabi and her waterworks can grate, I did cheer for her when she blasted Angelina and the Goliaths with the statement that what were they (Davids) supposed to do, just take being picked off? I so hate when the majority alliance is not only smug about pa-gonging people but expect them to just lie there and take it.  

[peachmangosteen]

Quote

And that works great for Alec, Mike and Dan ...

No, not Dan. The other Goliath member of that alliance is Alison. Dan is part of the Goliath Strong group.

I forgot to mention how much I loved that Elizabeth/Angelina scene. It legit looked like a reenactment from like that ID channel. I was rolling. And then the scene of Angelina's teary, "I got this" was hilarious, too. A lot of great comedy this season. Hopefully that continues if (when) the game continues down a dull, predictable path.

3 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

I so hate when the majority alliance is not only smug about pa-gonging people but expect them to just lie there and take it.  

Which, in the end, is exactly what the Davids did so the Goliaths got exactly what they wanted. So frustrating to watch.

Edited November 8, 2018 by peachmangosteen

[threebluestars]

I thought I heard Gabby say something earlier in the episode about booting Elizabeth being good for them since it puts Goliath at ease and makes them think the Davids are downtrodden, so I thought her tears at Tribal were trying to play that up - I mean, badly because she wasn't a very good actress - but I thought it was a show to advance their idea of their side being on the outs to hide their 6 person alliance.

[RedbirdNelly]

13 hours ago, mojoween said:

I don’t understand why, if Elizabeth was determined to blow up Angelina’s spot at TC, Elizabeth didn’t say that Angelina was lying her face off when she completely misrepresented how the whole “Angelina told Elizabeth they are voting her out” scenario went down.  

I mean, Angelina told several lies all in a row and Elizabeth didn’t do anything about it.

I was very puzzled by this as well. Why just sit there? did it get edited out? Very odd to me.

Gabby--I don't hate you and I want to root for you but you've got to cry less and chill more. You have to come across as a stable alliance-member or you are toast, and I'm running out of patience.