S37.E07: There's Gonna Be Tears Shed

[ProfCrash]

6 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

No, not Dan. The other Goliath member of that alliance is Alison. Dan is part of the Goliath Strong group.

Thanks, I thought I misremembered the third Goliath member. I knew it wasn't John and Dan made sense to me because of his connection with Christian. That is what I get for building the Lego Winter Fire Station while watching Survivor...

Alison makes sense by way of Gabby.

[CountryGirl]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

No, not Dan. The other Goliath member of that alliance is Alison. Dan is part of the Goliath Strong group.

I forgot to mention how much I loved that Elizabeth/Angelina scene. It legit looked like a reenactment from like that ID channel. I was rolling. And then the scene of Angelina's teary, "I got this" was hilarious, too. A lot of great comedy this season. Hopefully that continues if (when) the game continues down a dull, predictable path.

Which, in the end, is exactly what the Davids did so the Goliaths got exactly what they wanted. So frustrating to watch.

 

Yes and maybe it's because Gabi, Christian and Nick are thinking of their secret six alliance (i.e. let the non-six Goliaths think they are in control by cannibilization of some of their own), and while I would love to see that six go all the way, I have attempted to kick far too many footballs in far too many seasons before and don't have high hopes of the six actually doing much of anything.

Edited November 8, 2018 by CountryGirl

[Jextella]

4 hours ago, violet and green said:

Bugger. I was hoping Elizabeth would get to stay.

There was one fantastic moment at tribal when Gabby flicked a tear so hard it must have hit Angelina several feet away, like a glassy little shintaro star-knife.

Must rewatch to see the tear moment.

I like Gabby, but the crying is too much.  I'm not an Angelina fan, but Gabby would do well to gain some of that confidence.

[SuburbanHangSuite]

  Dan really is still the insecure, chubby kid under that buff exterior.  It was highly amusing to watch him target his fellow Brochacho with the, "Why not John?!  Why aren't they floating HIS name?" whining when he found out he was a target.  I really expected him to go storming into camp to confront Elizabeth and anyone else who dared mention him for consideration.  And did he really need to share his 2nd idol discovery with his Survivor girlfriend?  I hope she doesn't end up playing him.  I fear his heart would not recover.

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, ProfCrash said:

Mike seems to be playing the best game right now. He is not a threat physically. He is tied into both the Davids and the Goliaths.

I agree; everyone likes him.  When he quickly lost immunity I wasn't worried about him at all.

[Haleth]

1 hour ago, threebluestars said:

 

I thought I heard Gabby say something earlier in the episode about booting Elizabeth being good for them since it puts Goliath at ease and makes them think the Davids are downtrodden,

 

The Goliaths are going to be at ease for the next five TCs as they take out the David's one by one. 

Edited November 8, 2018 by Haleth

[eel2178]

15 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

I loved Gabby’s paranoia at the merge feast thinking about there being an idol hiding somewhere,

I'd be willing to bet that there was one there, but nobody put in the effort to find it.

[blackwing]

45 minutes ago, SuburbanHangSuite said:

  Dan really is still the insecure, chubby kid under that buff exterior.  It was highly amusing to watch him target his fellow Brochacho with the, "Why not John?!  Why aren't they floating HIS name?" whining when he found out he was a target.  I really expected him to go storming into camp to confront Elizabeth and anyone else who dared mention him for consideration.  And did he really need to share his 2nd idol discovery with his Survivor girlfriend?  I hope she doesn't end up playing him.  I fear his heart would not recover.

I don't think he was targeting John.  He was just surprised that he was the target.  His reasoning was that they must be going after physical threats, and I think it was very natural for Dan to wonder "why not John", since John is the biggest physical threat.  John struts around shirtless all the time and he's clearly in peak physical condition. 

I've been wondering why Dan always keeps his shirt on, then we saw him without it on last night, and he really doesn't look like he's in great shape.  Maybe he put on extra pounds knowing he would be starving?  Alec looks like he's in better shape than Dan.

I really don't think Kara will turn on him... she really does seem to think of them as a team, from the way she was saying that "we" have two idols.

We know that Carl has the nullifier although nothing has been said about it at all since.  I'm wondering exactly how it works.  If Dan and Kara hear about the nullifier and suspect it will be played on Dan, when and how exactly does the nullifier get used?  When Jeffy asks for idols before reading the votes, does Dan play his, and then Carl plays the nullifier?  When does the nullifier get revealed?  Does it only nullify one idol?  What if, knowing that Carl will nullify an idol, Dan gave the second one to Kara, and they both played an idol on Dan?  Would the nullifier nullify all idols on Dan, or just one?

[eel2178]

1 hour ago, Jextella said:

Must rewatch to see the tear moment.

I like Gabby, but the crying is too much.  I'm not an Angelina fan, but Gabby would do well to gain some of that confidence.

Give her a break. She's been off her Prozac for three weeks now.

[MisterBluxom]

3 hours ago, phlebas said:

Was "momentum" the right word there?  It's been awhile since I took physics.

LOL. I was wondering how to bring this up. I have no idea what Jeff meant by "momentum". I wasn't paying a whole lot of attention when Jeff first explained the challenge. I often just mute the sound whenever Jeff is speaking. He annoys me to no end. Did he define what he meant by "momentum"? Did he explain to the contestants just what it was?

I studied Physics in college. It wasn't my best subject - for sure. But I remember the definitions of energy and momentum and I remember studying the forumlae for pendulums. AFAIR "momentum" has nothing to do with pendulums. I'm not even sure you can really call those contraptions "pendulums" anyway.

Jeff makes me puke.

7 minutes ago, eel2178 said:

Give her a break. She's been off her Prozac for three weeks now.

We should start some kind of Gabby fan club and send her flowers or something on the Finale night.

Edited November 8, 2018 by MissBluxom

[iMonrey]

Maybe I'm just not paying enough attention this season but I think they've done a poor job defining a lot of the players. I really do not have a strong grasp on who a lot of them are, let alone which Tribe they were originally on. That's the problem with mixing them all up after only a few weeks, you don't get a firm grasp of where these people were originally. 

I don't think I could pick Alison or Kara out of a lineup if you put a gun to my head, and I know Carl and Davie are there but until I start reading through this forum I have no idea what their names are. I know there's a wrestling guy but not his name, and I don't know the difference between Nick and Alec and Dan. I mean - I know them by sight, but not by name.  

Yeah I know who Christian is, and Gabby, and Angelina, because the show has spent a lot of time showcasing them. I know Mike from The Amazing Race. Everyone else is sort of a mixed blur to me.

Speaking of Christian, I do not find him the least bit endearing or entertaining. He knows a lot of big words, that's for sure, but his over-use of them makes him just seem strange. He said something in this episode that didn't even make a lot of sense. It's like he uses big words just to try to sound as smart as possible even when they aren't necessary, like he's speaking in metaphor when he actually isn't. It's kind of dumb.

[tvfanatic13]

I know that we see who votes for whom, but do the players know? This vote was obvious, but people talk about not wanting to piss off so and so by voting for them. How would they know (other than at Ponderosa).

[ProfCrash]

35 minutes ago, blackwing said:

We know that Carl has the nullifier although nothing has been said about it at all since.  I'm wondering exactly how it works.  If Dan and Kara hear about the nullifier and suspect it will be played on Dan, when and how exactly does the nullifier get used?  When Jeffy asks for idols before reading the votes, does Dan play his, and then Carl plays the nullifier?  When does the nullifier get revealed?  Does it only nullify one idol?  What if, knowing that Carl will nullify an idol, Dan gave the second one to Kara, and they both played an idol on Dan?  Would the nullifier nullify all idols on Dan, or just one?

Carl plays the nullifier when he votes. He writes the name of the person he wants to nullify on the nullifier and drops it in the urn. Probst asks if anyone is playing an idol, if a person plays the idol Probst will say if it has been nullified or not. I don't know how it works with two idols though, if Dan would be able to play a second idol after the first is nullified. My guess is no because it would have to be played after the nullifier has been played. But that is speculation on my part.

10 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Maybe I'm just not paying enough attention this season but I think they've done a poor job defining a lot of the players. I really do not have a strong grasp on who a lot of them are, let alone which Tribe they were originally on. That's the problem with mixing them all up after only a few weeks, you don't get a firm grasp of where these people were originally. 

I think they have done a decent job this season. Alison is the only person I am having minor trouble with but I suspect that won't last long. Honestly, I know the vast majority of folks back story, what their original tribe was, what their swap tribe was and who they are working with. An occasional lego diversion mistake here and there but for the most part, it is has been a good season for remembering players.

4 minutes ago, tvfanatic13 said:

I know that we see who votes for whom, but do the players know? This vote was obvious, but people talk about not wanting to piss off so and so by voting for them. How would they know (other than at Ponderosa).

No they do not know. If someone wants them to know they voted a certain way they will leave a symbol on the paper. I suspect that most players figure out handwriting and the like but they are not told who vote for who, it is something the players have to figure out.

[Ms Blue Jay]

For me they've done a great job.  I know who everyone is and I know which original tribe everyone is from.  There was a season recently where it was IMPOSSIBLE for me to do that.  It took a few mentions of Laurel here for me to even remember who that was.

Edited November 8, 2018 by Ms Blue Jay

[blackwing]

16 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

For me they've done a great job.  I know who everyone is and I know which original tribe everyone is from.  There was a season recently where it was IMPOSSIBLE for me to do that.  It took a few mentions of Laurel here for me to even remember who that was.

Then you're doing better than me, because I have absolutely no recollection of who Laurel is haha.  I can't even remember what season she is from.

[Special K]

4 minutes ago, blackwing said:

Then you're doing better than me, because I have absolutely no recollection of who Laurel is haha.  I can't even remember what season she is from.

Haha!  Wasn't she the "third" in the alliance with Dom and Wendell?  With the braids?  Often buddied up with Donathan.

[Bryce Lynch]

13 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

I was struck by the way Jeff kept repeating, "Focus. Focus. Focus. You must keep your focus. Always keep your focus. Focus. Focus. Focus. "

Jeff Probst. What a kind and considerate fellow. Helping all those contestants to keep their focus by nattering in their ears repeatedly. That's the best way to help them keep their focus.

Isn't it?

It is kind of like repeatedly telling someone, in a pressure situation,  "No pressure." 

[JudyObscure]

I keep wondering why they went to the trouble to tattle on Angelina if they weren't hoping the Goliaths would be angry enough to change their vote from Elizabeth to her.  How did they know it hadn't worked?  For all the Davids knew the whispering at Tribal was for that very reason.  If that had been the case, six Goliaths would have voted for Angelina and six Davids (plus Angelina) would have voted their own, Elizabeth, out. 

I didn't have a speck of physics in my Liberal Arts heaven but I would have called that challenge centrifugal force.

[Nashville]

39 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I keep wondering why they went to the trouble to tattle on Angelina if they weren't hoping the Goliaths would be angry enough to change their vote from Elizabeth to her.

Sowing seeds of future dissent, maybe?  Bet the discussion’s gonna be lively when they get back to camp.  ;)

 

39 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

  How did they know it hadn't worked?  For all the Davids knew the whispering at Tribal was for that very reason.  If that had been the case, six Goliaths would have voted for Angelina and six Davids (plus Angelina) would have voted their own, Elizabeth, out. 

In that scenario it would’ve been Angelina leaving, not Elizabeth: 6 Goliaths+Elizabeth beats 5 Davids+Angelina.

[Kenzie]

6 hours ago, Eolivet said:

I almost think that makes it worse, because while I agree her edit is bad, you can see it playing out in her mind, thinking how smart she is, and what a brilliant move this or that was. I don't like to throw around the word "delusional," but I feel like a majority of our reality villains have an awareness about them -- yeah, I'm bad, I know it, "I'm not here to make friends!" Or "you people are fools for believing me," "I can't believe they bought that lie," etc.

It's interesting you bring up Michaela -- who was the ultimate "I am what I am, and I apologize to no one for it." I find Angelina almost the polar opposite. "But how could you possibly go against my amazing plan, because I'm only looking out for you, and you totally don't realize I'm manipulating you myself." Except it is obvious. Could that be editing? Maybe. But she's so patently bad at this part of Survivor that if the edit told me they were buying what she was selling, I'd feel like we were in Redemption Island 2.0 because nobody can be that stupid, right?

Chrissy was the last woman who was arguably edited into a villain, but she ruled her alliance with an iron fist. Angelina's supposed role models, Parvati and Natalie Anderson had strong relationships, and mostly made themselves aware of the goings on of the tribe. By contrast, Angelina has little real power, little evidence of a strong alliance or anyone who trusts her implicitly, and yet she thinks she's running the show. In her mind, she's a great hero. The edit wants us to buy her as a villain. I don't think she has character enough for either.

I see her as much better fitting in on what Millennials vs Gen X was supposed to be rather than David vs Goliath. Her key attribute isn't her success. Rather, she is what every Internet troll who rails against millennials thinks of them --  someone who's been told she's special all her life, believes it, and is absolutely convinced that everyone else sees it, too.

I've struggled to put her entitled, selfish personality into words but you nailed it.

[BarneySays]

4 hours ago, Nashville said:

If you’re (a) in the David minority and (b) know the Goliath majority is unilaterally targeting one individual for the eviction vote, someone please enlighten me as to how voting against that majority bloc advances your game - unless of course you are employing a daring new strategy which involves painting a barn-sized target on your back, in which case I’d say you’re doing fine.  :)

Elizabeth’s departure was a fact; there was no saving her, so throwing a sympathy vote at an alternate target accomplishes little except to give that alternate (and the alternate’s alliance) justification to target you or someone else in your alliance.

I disagree.  There is a lot that could have been accomplished.  First, not sure if putting votes behind someone's name has an impact down the line (it used to do).  More importantly, the davids could have created drama by voting for say, the formerly fat guy.  That vote could have wrought havoc, which could create a crack or opening to switch things up.  Secondly, a unified vote would have potentially weakened the covert alliances or brought them into the open.  For example, the little twerpy guy (more on him in a minute) would have had to have voted for formerly fat or he would have exposed his alliance to the entire tribe.  All of these possibilities are much better than remaining silent and obedient- and cowardly.

As for casting, I am tired of the adorable little eunuch character we seem to be stuck with since the unbearable twerp corchran darkened our tv screens.  The fetisihization of the extremely slight in stature and build, socially awkward, verbose man in search of his balls is getting creepy at this point.  It's the converse to the glorification of the "stud" that survivor used for years, much to jeff's unabashed delight.  Enough already with the objectification and diminishment of these people and the perverse virtue-signaling pleasure these characters grant to some of the viewing public.       

As for Ms. Waterworks, she strikes me as a very crafty emotional manipulator.  She's a mastermind at sucking up the attention of others, usually through a pitiable display.  I knew someone like this in college.  When she'd start her shtick, I eventually got to the point of simply walking away.  My indifference drove her mad.  Waterworks's type is one to stay away from.  They will exhaust you.  There is no helping this type because they don't want help or support- they want your undivided and constant attention.

[ghoulina]

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

I keep wondering why they went to the trouble to tattle on Angelina if they weren't hoping the Goliaths would be angry enough to change their vote from Elizabeth to her.  How did they know it hadn't worked?  For all the Davids knew the whispering at Tribal was for that very reason. 

Maybe the rest of them were fine with voting Elizabeth off, but didn't want to tell her. So they just let her do her thing, in the hopes that it would help them out down the road? 

That's all I got...

[meep.meep]

13 hours ago, HeShallBMySquishy said:

 

ITA. I don't find Gabby's tears as irritating as others, but I sure found her "upset and tearful" performance to be exactly that. She just came across so phony, like she woke up that day and decided, "I'm going to be an actress today!" And that was her very first acting performance ever. It was cringey!

I'm not sure if Gabby's tears are strategy, or just her go to move, but they are really obvious and manipulative.

 

5 hours ago, preeya said:

And I don't get Angelina's little secret speech to Elizabeth before TC. They targeted Elizabeth, and everyone voted for her. What was the purpose of the talk?

The rest of them thought that it was Angelina's attempt at jury manipulation.  She was the one who "kindly" told Elizabeth so that she would be prepared, therefore when Elizabeth goes to vote as a member of the jury, she'll remember that and vote for Angelina to win.  I don't think that's going to happen.

[violet and green]

7 hours ago, Eolivet said:

I almost think that makes it worse, because while I agree her edit is bad, you can see it playing out in her mind, thinking how smart she is, and what a brilliant move this or that was. I don't like to throw around the word "delusional," but I feel like a majority of our reality villains have an awareness about them -- yeah, I'm bad, I know it, "I'm not here to make friends!" Or "you people are fools for believing me," "I can't believe they bought that lie," etc.

It's interesting you bring up Michaela -- who was the ultimate "I am what I am, and I apologize to no one for it." I find Angelina almost the polar opposite. "But how could you possibly go against my amazing plan, because I'm only looking out for you, and you totally don't realize I'm manipulating you myself." Except it is obvious. Could that be editing? Maybe. But she's so patently bad at this part of Survivor that if the edit told me they were buying what she was selling, I'd feel like we were in Redemption Island 2.0 because nobody can be that stupid, right?

Chrissy was the last woman who was arguably edited into a villain, but she ruled her alliance with an iron fist. Angelina's supposed role models, Parvati and Natalie Anderson had strong relationships, and mostly made themselves aware of the goings on of the tribe. By contrast, Angelina has little real power, little evidence of a strong alliance or anyone who trusts her implicitly, and yet she thinks she's running the show. In her mind, she's a great hero. The edit wants us to buy her as a villain. I don't think she has character enough for either.

I see her as much better fitting in on what Millennials vs Gen X was supposed to be rather than David vs Goliath. Her key attribute isn't her success. Rather, she is what every Internet troll who rails against millennials thinks of them --  someone who's been told she's special all her life, believes it, and is absolutely convinced that everyone else sees it, too.

Great post.

She sure has given the editors a lot to work with, with her confidant talking heads.

I'm sure she's not a total asshole, and feel a bit sorry for her watching the season, but she's still in my view an asshole.

Mind you, I was told last week I was just a dumb rube who didn't grasp editing...

Still I keep coming back to exhibit A - those terrible pants. She must have really rubbed someone up the wrong way to be gifted with those pale dirt-catching thigh-expanders.

[303420]

Gabby, I get you. I too am a crier, and when I cry I know people are judging me for crying and that frustrates me, which just makes me cry more. I know other badasses who are the same way. You are in good company. 

A+ to the editors. Watch the part again where Carl takes the beer bottle from Alec at the merge feast. Alec is goofily partying and Carl matter-of-factly grabs the bottle from him in a way that's hilariously Carl. Christian and the piece of wood. Dan and Angelina self-motivating out loud. I love this season and I love these people.

 

14 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

The vote made perfect sense to me.  In a hypothetical situation where all members of Former Tribe A are still loyal to one another, they would definitely want to vote out a member of the minority Former Tribe B.  The B’s would not want to vote out one of their own, but without the ability to turn an A, they would go along with the vote in hopes of earning a way in, or  thinking “at least it’s not me”.  We’ve seen this happen many times.  

This time, we know that some members of Goliath are not, in fact, still loyal. But the other Goliaths don’t know that.  In order for the Gang of Six (look at me, making more dreaded nicknames) to hide their alliance, they must vote in a way that does not draw suspicion. The only way to do that is to vote is to follow the paradigm, and vote out a David.  The Davids in the alliance may have liked Elizabeth, but they couldn’t afford to make waves. They had to vote for a David anyway; why not her?  As for the Davids and Goliaths who are not in the Six, they WERE just following the paradigm.

5 hours ago, Special K said:

The mixed-6 alliance said that the plan was to pretend to pursue a David pagonging for a few votes, until the 6 had the numbers to begin picking off the Goliaths.  That way the "true" Goliaths aren't wise to the "betrayal" of the Goliaths in the mixed-6.  Unfortunately, Elizabeth's ouster was just about that long-range plan and not really about her personally (except for maybe Carl's vote and, eventually, Angelina's). 

THIS.

What's more, Angelina was exactly right to be concerned when the target changed from Christian back to Elizabeth. From Angelina's perspective, it shouldn't matter which David gets voted off, and the fact that her supposed alliance-mates prefer one to another suggests that their preference is a threat to her game. Which it actually is. 

I don't hate Angelina. She's abrasive af, bless her. But her only real option was "Goliath strong." Even if she really had a connection with Elizabeth, Elizabeth didn't have a connection to anyone else, so it was all but useless. Still, in trying, however pathetically, to keep her only option open, she was only doing what the other Goliaths were doing by saying no to Christian: trying to protect her asset. This edit, though. She won't last long.

Here's the thing about Elizabeth: she explicitly said that she's not taking anything personally because it's a game. I absolutely believe her that it was hard for her to throw Angelina under the bus, but it was her only game option. And it was good for all the other Davids to encourage her to sow dissent among the Goliaths to create reasons to target other Goliaths before them. There are a lot of long games going on and it absolutely delights me.

2 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

For me they've done a great job.  I know who everyone is and I know which original tribe everyone is from.  There was a season recently where it was IMPOSSIBLE for me to do that.  It took a few mentions of Laurel here for me to even remember who that was.

You may have misheard her name as "Yanni."

I'll show myself out.

[MisterBluxom]

8 hours ago, ghoulina said:

<snip>

That being said, I do think you're on to something with the pettiness. She wanted Christian and they all went against her and settled on Elizabeth. So she was all pissed off and thought, "Fine. You want to vote Elizabeth, I'll just let her know." 

<snip>

Very well done. You summed up that entire exchange in a way that I would consider to be "just perfect"!

That had to be the most incredibly thoughtless and stupid thing she could ever do. If you are correct - and I'm pretty certain that you are bang on correct - she reacted in response to some very nasty emotions without ever taking the time to think about it one tiny little bit. That is almost a certain recipe for disaster. IMHO, the only good thing about her not being voted out yesterday is that we may get to see another episode where she is voted out and it will be just full of Angelina trauma and a whole lot more of Angelina's regret. If I'm correct about that, I expect it will look real good on her. Very well deserved.

Edited November 8, 2018 by MissBluxom

[Special K]

I'm enjoying watching Dan because even though he has two idols, he seems to be too emotional to really think straight about anything.  I can't wait to see how he gets hoisted by his own petard (idol)!

[Gummo]

Unfortunately for us as viewers, a Pagonging really is the best plan for the Goliaths. Any David who survives from here to the end would have all sorts of underdog cred, plus the fact that the jury will be stuffed with Davids. Plus, if you can pick off 5 people -- that's over two weeks of survival in Survivor time -- with no threat to yourself or anyone you're allied with, why not do it?

But luckily, there appear to be a couple of people itching to make a big move and shake things up, whether it's smart or not -- good! (For us, that is.)

I get Gabby's frustration at Tribal. If you're targeted and you know it, you're damned if you try to do something about it and damned if you don't. 

But I do love that this whole cast are players who not only know Survivor but know that everyone else there knows Survivor, so they're talking openly about stuff that was always alluded to (in ridiculously roundabout ways) in previous seasons' Tribals. So Gabby's exclamation (Of course we're trying to shake things up! Of course we're trying to exploit fractures!) was a breath of fresh air compared to those stupid wink-wink tribals of yore when no one would say anything in a straightforward way.

Not the best merge episode ever (Elizabeth going was pretty much a foregone conclusion) but I'm still enjoying this season. 

[amazingracefan]

10 minutes ago, Gummo said:

Not the best merge episode ever (Elizabeth going was pretty much a foregone conclusion) but I'm still enjoying this season. 

Most of the cast seem ok, but yeh it was pretty obvious once Elizabeth didn't win immunity that her days were numbered.

[MisterBluxom]

17 minutes ago, Special K said:

I'm enjoying watching Dan because even though he has two idols, he seems to be too emotional to really think straight about anything.  I can't wait to see how he gets hoisted by his own petard (idol)!

Right on!

[susannot]

I'm expecting a boring Pagonging from here on out.

[amazingracefan]

16 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

I was struck by the way Jeff kept repeating, "Focus. Focus. Focus. You must keep your focus. Always keep your focus. Focus. Focus. Focus. "

Jeff Probst. What a kind and considerate fellow. Helping all those contestants to keep their focus by nattering in their ears repeatedly. That's the best way to help them keep their focus.

Isn't it?

I thought that, but isn't that really part of his whole shtick, to be annoying to the players at challenges?  It's like an extra hurdle they have to get over. 

[CloudySky]

This cast is pretty darn amusing. It's so refreshing not to have total assholes on the island.

I find myself feeling bad for people I would usually be annoyed with.

Angelina is so obvious with the execution of her strategy that I find myself feeling second hand embarrassment for her and thus feeling slightly sympathetic for how she's coming across because I don't think she's totally evil.

Dan is a doofus with a showmance but he's so over the top it's more funny than annoying. Kara's talking heads save her from being portrayed as a dumb girlfriend goat because she is self aware.

Christian should be an annoying Cochran 2.0 in theory but somehow he pulls it off to be endearing defying his casting trope.

John is a kindhearted and funny jock who somehow manages to stay under the radar despite being the only jacked guy on there.

Alec is a smug flipper but he's clever enough that you're intrigued to watch it play out.

Alison is the quiet underdog.

Gabby is either ubermanipulative or uberemotional and I can't quite figure out which so I'm intrigued. Her tears at tribal reminded me of the time she was playing Christian on the beach by being very vulnerable.

Nick and Mike are in a great position right now. Likeable, alliances on both side, will probably end up being the deciding vote a couple of times. Nick has several bigger targets before him (Dan, John, Alec, Christian) and is phycial enough to snag immunity when he's left with people like Mike, Gabby, Davy, Alison,...

Davy and Carl are getting no significant screen time but hold some power with an idol and nullifier.

Elizabeth was stupid to wait until tribal to try something. Carl seemed to hate her but he appeared to be her closest ally with Lyrsa gone...No self awareness. Gabby basically flat out said Elizabeth is going but throwing Angelina under the bus to help her fellow Davids during tribal council.

[Nashville]

8 hours ago, Eolivet said:

I almost think that makes it worse, because while I agree her edit is bad, you can see it playing out in her mind, thinking how smart she is, and what a brilliant move this or that was. I don't like to throw around the word "delusional," but I feel like a majority of our reality villains have an awareness about them -- yeah, I'm bad, I know it, "I'm not here to make friends!" Or "you people are fools for believing me," "I can't believe they bought that lie," etc.

It's interesting you bring up Michaela -- who was the ultimate "I am what I am, and I apologize to no one for it." I find Angelina almost the polar opposite. "But how could you possibly go against my amazing plan, because I'm only looking out for you, and you totally don't realize I'm manipulating you myself." Except it is obvious. Could that be editing? Maybe. But she's so patently bad at this part of Survivor that if the edit told me they were buying what she was selling, I'd feel like we were in Redemption Island 2.0 because nobody can be that stupid, right?

Chrissy was the last woman who was arguably edited into a villain, but she ruled her alliance with an iron fist. Angelina's supposed role models, Parvati and Natalie Anderson had strong relationships, and mostly made themselves aware of the goings on of the tribe. By contrast, Angelina has little real power, little evidence of a strong alliance or anyone who trusts her implicitly, and yet she thinks she's running the show. In her mind, she's a great hero. The edit wants us to buy her as a villain. I don't think she has character enough for either.

I see her as much better fitting in on what Millennials vs Gen X was supposed to be rather than David vs Goliath. Her key attribute isn't her success. Rather, she is what every Internet troll who rails against millennials thinks of them --  someone who's been told she's special all her life, believes it, and is absolutely convinced that everyone else sees it, too.

Or, in short - Angelina is a total Destiny.  ;)

[amazingracefan]

20 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

Dan and his 2 idols can go next. I don’t care that he used to be fat, I find him obnoxious. Angelina is also on my last nerve but I like her in the sense that she’s sort of an old-school reality show villain. The kind you love to hate, as opposed to Russell who you just hate.

Though Russell did win two favourite player awards.

19 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I think gender is always almost a factor in the votes.  Somebody tosses out Elizabeth's name "Oh yeah that's an easy vote."  Somebody tosses out Christian's name "Now wait a goddamn minute........"  This kind of stuff happens every vote IMO.  Women are easy to shred, men give everyone pause.

Men do create alliances with each other, the most consistent strategy for women in the past might have been showmances.

 

18 hours ago, North of Eden said:

There is an Alison? I swear she was invisible this season right up until her win.

 

Part of me thinks its behind the sign that said: "everything you need is right here". Oh, well if she didn't find it better than Dan the Brochero or Douchero or whatever that name is. I'd forgotten all about the Ken and Barbie thing he had going on with the blond that has no name.

I haven't remembered all the names yet but there are some characters there at least.  On the invisibility topic that gets brought up I think John is one who I don't really know.

I also thought there may have been a clue behind the sign, because there was a big close up of it at one point.  But it's possible the producers think there are enough idols in play that they don't want more at this point?  I'm sure there will be something at a reward to come later anyway, maybe a merge feast is more a time for some of them to get to know each other or renew older bonds. 

18 hours ago, Wandering Snark said:

I was just thankful for a challenge that didn't end with "and you will then take the pieces you have gathered to solve a puzzle..." Nice to see something different.

It's individual immunity now though and they tend to be balancing strength challenges not like tribal immunities which are more puzzle/throwing, though I hope they put in some other things at times to mix it up.

 

18 hours ago, blackwing said:

I’m happy that Elizabeth is gone.  I found her irritating.  She seemed to think she was this powerful force that was destined to win the game, because she’s a tough country girl that kills squirrels with her bare hands, and nobody puts baby in a corner. 

I did find her irritating like she thought she was a special good person, her little speech to Probst before she left was a bit boring.  However she did have a funny moment at tribal when she talked of knowing about the stories of goliaths and how they got their heads chopped off.

[SuburbanHangSuite]

4 hours ago, blackwing said:

I don't think he was targeting John.  He was just surprised that he was the target.  His reasoning was that they must be going after physical threats, and I think it was very natural for Dan to wonder "why not John", since John is the biggest physical threat.  John struts around shirtless all the time and he's clearly in peak physical condition. 

 

I agree.  I didn't mean to insinuate that he was targeting John for a vote.  I just found it funny that he didn't see himself to be the same level of threat as John hence why I think he still feels very much like pre-SWAT John.  To the untrained eye, Dan and John are pretty equal---big, strapping guys who look to be very much the prime physical threats in the game.  

They just need to leave my Christian out of their plotting.

[Nashville]

2 hours ago, BarneySays said:

I disagree.  There is a lot that could have been accomplished.  First, not sure if putting votes behind someone's name has an impact down the line (it used to do).

In Survivor’s early seasons a player’s cumulative tally of eviction votes cast against them used to be the primary tiebreaker criterion at TC; when two players were tied for eviction, the player who had accumulated the most eviction votes over the course of the season was the one who got their torch snuffed.  TPTB dropped that years ago, though, preferring instead to go with the simpler drawing-rocks option.

 

2 hours ago, BarneySays said:

  More importantly, the davids could have created drama by voting for say, the formerly fat guy.  That vote could have wrought havoc, which could create a crack or opening to switch things up. 

Or - it could have firmed up resolve amongst the Goliaths to clear out the troublemakers (i.e., the Davids).

 

2 hours ago, BarneySays said:

Secondly, a unified vote would have potentially weakened the covert alliances or brought them into the open. 

I’m guessing here that by “unified vote”, what you meant was “unified David vote against a Goliath”?  Because what happened WAS a unified vote - against Elizabeth - and it did a pretty good job of concealing David/Goliath cross-alliances, not exposing them.  :)

 

2 hours ago, BarneySays said:

For example, the little twerpy guy (more on him in a minute) would have had to have voted for formerly fat or he would have exposed his alliance to the entire tribe. 

And Christian - or Gabby - or Nick - would want to do that why, exactly?  They’re all engaged in a David/Goliath cross-pollinating alliance as well, and they constitute half the David voting bloc.  Why would they choose to blow up their own games?

 

2 hours ago, BarneySays said:

All of these possibilities are much better than remaining silent and obedient- and cowardly.

But they aren’t likely to win you Survivor.  ;>

[nlkm9]

6 hours ago, Jextella said:

Must rewatch to see the tear moment.

I like Gabby, but the crying is too much.  I'm not an Angelina fan, but Gabby would do well to gain some of that confidence.

hahah that part made me laugh--she does seem sooo sad and insecure tho:(

[Jextella]

My favorite expression coming out of this season is "sketch ball" :)

....I have a crush on Nick.

[MisterBluxom]

37 minutes ago, amazingracefan said:

<snip> I haven't remembered all the names yet but there are some characters there at least.  On the invisibility topic that gets brought up I think John is one I don't really know. <snip>

I also found it very difficult to remember their names - until I made the following list.  There were originally 20 contestants. They were (in alphabetic order):

DAVID - Bi, Carl, Christian, Davie, Elizabeth, Gabby, Jessica, Lyrsa, Nick, Pat    GOLIATH - Alec, Alison, Angelina, Dan, Jeremy, John, Kara, Mike, Natalia, Natalie

The eight people who have left so far are (in the order they left): 1 Pat 2 Jessica 3 Jeremy 4 Bi 5 Natalia 6 Natalie 7 Lyrsa 8 Elizabeth

I hope this list will help you and I wish you Happy Trails!

Edited November 8, 2018 by MissBluxom

[MisterBluxom]

1 hour ago, amazingracefan said:

I thought that, but isn't that really part of his whole shtick, to be annoying to the players at challenges?  It's like an extra hurdle they have to get over. 

I suppose you may well be right. I just don't get it though. What would be the point?

[BarneySays]

16 minutes ago, Nashville said:

I’m guessing here that by “unified vote”, what you meant was “unified David vote against a Goliath”?  Because what happened WAS a unified vote - against Elizabeth - and it did a pretty good job of concealing David/Goliath cross-alliances, not exposing them.  :)

Yes, that was my intent- the davids voting together.  And yes it did allow those with cross-alliances to keep them hidden. 

 

18 minutes ago, Nashville said:

 

Quote

  More importantly, the davids could have created drama by voting for say, the formerly fat guy.  That vote could have wrought havoc, which could create a crack or opening to switch things up. 

Or - it could have firmed up resolve amongst the Goliaths to clear out the troublemakers (i.e., the Davids).

Yes, of course, but those not in an alliance are on that course anyway.  My comment was intended to relate to the average david- ie, one without a sepoarate lliance going on, whose trying to survive[sic].   

Quote

Secondly, a unified vote would have potentially weakened the covert alliances or brought them into the open. 

I’m guessing here that by “unified vote”, what you meant was “unified David vote against a Goliath”?  Because what happened WAS a unified vote - against Elizabeth - and it did a pretty good job of concealing David/Goliath cross-alliances, not exposing them.  :)

Yes, that is what I mean.  You highlight my point- instead of possibly exposing those alliances or creating some doubt in them, the inaction approach allows them to carry on unchallenged.

Quote

For example, the little twerpy guy (more on him in a minute) would have had to have voted for formerly fat or he would have exposed his alliance to the entire tribe. 

And Christian - or Gabby - or Nick - would want to do that why, exactly?  They’re all engaged in a David/Goliath cross-pollinating alliance as well, and they constitute half the David voting bloc.  Why would they choose to blow up their own games?

Of course they would not want to do that.  But the others, who do not have similar arrangements should want to do that.  Recall- your comment that I responded to indicated that it wouldn't make sense for the davids...  Those with an alliance were acting in their best interest.  The others, however, were not.  For them, the inaction course was their worst option.  My comment is an attempt to explain why.   

Quote

All of these possibilities are much better than remaining silent and obedient- and cowardly.

But they aren’t likely to win you Survivor.  ;>

Well, in actuality, very little is likely to win any of them the prize.  There is a lot of randomness and fortune in winning this show.  There is nothing one can do when confronted with immature and irrational people at the end, for example.  I never find the argument "but they would have lost if they had..." to be compelling.  Ultimately, being silent and obedient is less likely to get you a win than taking some risks, just as that wet noodle from the last season (or two) who was too afraid to make a move, while simultaneously convincing herself she was playing smart.  YMMV.

[Neveragain]

20 hours ago, North of Eden said:

With that said what Elizabeth did was in all honesty pretty low down...Angelina was trying to save her and help her if only to get her way about Christian but the fact remains her intent was to keep Elizabeth in the game. For Elizabeth to turn around and do what she did...well it just casts her in a bad light. 

Why?  Elizabeth was playing survivor.  Which is what she’s supposed to do.  She was told she was the one going home, so she did the only thing she could do which was to try to make some noise and chaos and hope it worked.  Also nothing is low down, at all, the point is to outplay outwit outlast the others. This isn’t play nice kindergarten.

20 hours ago, North of Eden said:

I know people don't like Gabby crying but that just endears her to me even more because she's genuine and wears her heart on her sleeve. I have a real issue with people that are reserved to the point that its pathological. ...but getting back to Gabby...she's so real, so emotional...she's just awesome

Funny I feel the opposite.  To each their own, I guess.  She was annoying me to the point of distraction.  Plus her closeness to my fave Christian endangers him if she makes herself, and thereby him, a target.  She needs to learn when to lay low and not call attention to herself unless it’s absolutely necessary.  

[peachmangosteen]

42 minutes ago, Nashville said:

But they aren’t likely to win you Survivor.  ;>

Being a silent, obedient coward won't get you the win either.

[truthaboutluv]

26 minutes ago, Neveragain said:

She needs to learn when to lay low and not call attention to herself unless it’s absolutely necessary.  

That was really it for me. As annoying as her tears were in the other times, they were somewhat more understandable because they were moments where she was worried about her place in the game and thinking she may be going home. However, there was NO attention on Gabby at the tribal council last night. This was all about Elizabeth and her desperately trying to save herself and her going after Angelina. Not to mention that as of right now, unless Alec and company betray them, Gabby knows she's in a six person alliance with three Goliaths who are just waiting for the right moment to strike and turn on their fellow Goliaths. 

So I just didn't understand where all that histrionics came from, complete with tears and dramatics. I literally watched the moment thinking, "what is she doing"?  Especially because Elizabeth, along with Alison's help who seemed really pissed at Angelina, was doing a pretty good job of selling the idea that Angelina was clearly thinking jury management already and so couldn't be trusted. Gabby's blubbering about "we're on the bottom and of course we're going to do anything to save ourselves" only served to remind the Goliaths that anything Elizabeth was saying was useless because she was just trying to save herself and keep the Davids in. She was creating the opposite of what Elizabeth wanted. Hell the cynical part of me almost wondered at one point if she was trying to screw Elizabeth over.

It was just weird. And on the complete flip side, there's Christian as silent as a mouse unless Jeff directly asked him a question. I just think she's starting to come across too emotional and overwrought and in this game that breeds so much paranoia, it can lead to a person's demise in the game.

[Lamima]

I kinda wondered if Gabby heard that if it wasn't Elizabeth it would be Christian so she made that statement to the effect of 'I do believe Angelina had good intent with telling Elizabeth. I really don't think she meant it any other way. But what is Elizabeth supposed to do? Just let everyone vote her out?'. Almost a sabotage of her and Elizabeth's plan to set up Angelina (which was actually Gabby's plan). So I am guessing Gabby (Nick and Christian) learned that Christian was runner up so they backed down. If so, Christian's mixed group will probably gun for Angelina next week (as she was the only one gunning for Christian).

Edited November 9, 2018 by Lamima

[LanceM]

15 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

I would be remiss if I didn't point out that she is geing a lulu of a negative edit and people should be mindful of that when deciding just how much they hate her stupid face...that's what you're supposed to think, you know?

 

Yep.  Survivors loves their villains and Angelina is certainly giving them plenty of material. But I find it interesting reading through all the exit interviews, including Elizabeth's today and with the exception of Natalie nobody seems to have a bad thing to say about her other than she is playing the game really really hard (which I don't know if that is really a negative). Mike in particular was gushing about her in a mid season interview the other day. Weird.

[KimberStormer]

11 hours ago, Eolivet said:

It's interesting you bring up Michaela -- who was the ultimate "I am what I am, and I apologize to no one for it." I find Angelina almost the polar opposite.

Exactly, which is why it's hilarious to me that she's equally terrible at hiding her emotions! 

[MVFrostsMyPie]

I wish Alec didn't resemble an ex-boyfriend of mine. I simultaneously like him and also want to punch him in the face.

Angelina, meanwhile, reminds me of a few ex-friends I've had in my life, including my manipulative shady ex-BFF from HS, who would basically insult you but insist she was doing it out of love and because she cared. Having a Marine husband is doing her no favors. 

I loved Gabby flinging her angry tears off her face. I tend to cry out of anger rather than sadness, so I feel ya girl!

But seriously, fuck you Angelina and your fugly gray leggings.

[EllenB]

I have a difficult time remembering Mike's and Nick's names because I think of them as Statler and Waldorf.