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S03.E07: Sometimes

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Kevin and Zoe land in Vietnam. In the past, Jack and Rebecca take a road trip to Los Angeles. Jack's war story continues to be revealed.

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Original air date: 11/13/18

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo
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Still don’t care about Jack and Rebecca’s dating, still think Milo V can’t act, still think the Vietnam scenes are uninteresting, still think the show is spinning its wheels.

But any episode with zero Randall, Deja, Kate, or Toby counts as a win in my book.

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5 minutes ago, Armchair Critic said:

Rebecca's blonde friend, why do I keep seeing her as a little girl? What was she in?

Her name is Yvonne Zima; she played Dr. Greene's daughter on ER (as a child; someone else played her as a teenager/young adult).

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I was very annoyed that Jack went to Vietnam to "save" his brother and then decided to plead his case to his CO.  And golly gee, it sort of worked!  

 

But Mandy Moore sings and I forget why I was angry and instead I'm crying.  FOOP!

 

I didn't miss Kate and Randall in this.  I was sort of expecting Zoe's reveal but I have hope for Kevin's story. 

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1 minute ago, ams1001 said:

Her name is Yvonne Zima; she played Dr. Greene's daughter on ER (as a child; someone else played her as a teenager/young adult).

THANK YOU. I just looked at IMDB she played Geena Davis' daughter in 'The Long Kiss Goodnight', that's where I knew her from. That drove me crazy the rest of the show.

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And there are 3 Zima sisters and they are all actors!  And they all look alike.  I get it.

Milo was beautiful this episode.  Just beautiful all around.

I finally now know why Mandy Moore's acting bugs me.  She still speaks like a little kid, so unsure of herself with so much upspeak.  It was like a lightbulb went off in my head.  She says about half of her sentences like they're a question.  She has this overly cutesy voice and it's hard for me to see past.  Couple that with her beautifully perfect dollface and she seems kind of un-"real".

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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I thought Jack's Vietnam scenes were kind of weak in addition to the spider story; him asking Bao if he was good or bad stuck out as awkward writing.  However, I did like Jack's scene with Squirrel's parents and his wanting to keep it all separate from Bec, that all worked much better for me. 

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Wasn't that Vietnamese motorbike rider Dustin N (too lazy to look it up) from the original "21 Jump Street" with Depp?

I love me some young Jack and Rebecca. More please.

Sure would rather watch them than Toby and Kate.

I knew it would be that Zoe's dad molested her. 

She got sick. Well, bat will do that to a person.

38 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I found the cinematography this week to be really lovely. The show always looks nice, but the flashbacks really looked like both old and treasured memories, as something out of the 60s/70s

Agreed, tennisgurl.

46 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Milo was beautiful this episode.  Just beautiful all around.

Agreed, Ms. Blue Jay. They really do a great job on this show with the effects/makeup to reflect the characters' different life stages.

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Yep, I had the tissues out at the end when Rebecca was singing and Jack broke down crying in the car...oh my, poor Jack, after he had to tell the young man's parents about his death.  Jack always wants to be up-front & honest.  And Rebecca's face just glowed with happiness!  She is so happy with Jack, that he accepts her dreams & desires.   Zoe: eating bat: UGH!  But, Kevin is growing up & maturing...he is figuring out this relationship stuff.   My favorite scene, Rebecca&Jack slow dancing together.

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23 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

"Your Pittsburgh good." I cant even explain how they made that sound like the worst possible insult, but...damn. 

In all fairness they were trying to be nice, but Becca kept pushing.  So he had to be truthful without being too mean.  

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I think one of the Vietnamese girls is going to end up in a relationship with Jack's brother. I think she is the one with the necklace. Jack's brother will be killed by one of those makeshift can bombs....that Jack never alerted anyone about....and will forever feel guilty that he killed his brother (just like the soldier playing football). Jack had that necklace because Nicky's local girlfriend gives the necklace to Jack after Nicky is killed.  ? 

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"Turns out, all my mistakes are forgiveable"...that line from Rebecca's song, might as well be on the Pearson family crest. 

Eternally searching for redemption; sentimental and sweet and a little bit obvious.  Much like the Pearsons themselves.  The only moment of tonight's ep that really got to me.

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I enjoyed the writing for the most part.  The parallel stories of long road trips. One by car, the other by plane of people from very different backgrounds in very new relationships.  Jack holding back and Zoe holding back their traumas.  I enjoyed watching new relationships being tested by the intensity of a road trip with a virtual stranger.

And the episode managed to weave in the Vietnam mystery and further that story.  Jack is so hopeful that he can help his brother and Nicky is so far gone that he is embracing personal destruction.  If Jack felt guilty for Squirrel's death because he took his eyes off him, I can only imagine what he feels inside about his brother's death.  

I liked the part of after we see the medal being made by hand, Kevin discovers that they are now common in any market.  The soldier buying it as a gift for a girl,  the Vietcong soldier taking it and then "the girl" taking if off the solder's body was a surprise and something that Kevin will never know but we know.

I agree it seemed weak writing for Jack to ask Bao if he was good or bad but I suppose they will cross paths again and Bao will have to decide if he is good or bad.

Milo and Mandy have such great chemistry but I have to say it again that Kevin and Zoe have no chemistry that I can see.

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I like the Rebecca/Jack storyline. It’s fun watching their chemistry in the early days. When he started crying while she sang, it was sad.

I really felt for Zoe.

The Vietnam flashbacks were the weak part to me.

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2 hours ago, mansfolly said:

Wasn't that Vietnamese motorbike rider Dustin N (too lazy to look it up) from the original "21 Jump Street" with Depp?

 

Dustin Nguyen! He looked familiar to me too, and according to Wikipedia, he is based in Vietnam now, still acting, so it could be him. Thanks @mansfolly for giving me great 21 Jump Street memories!

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I loved this episode. I love every episode... but when Zoe told Kevin she was sexually abused I thought: they have to fit in every single trauma into the show. They put everything in, what condition or horrible thing is left that hasn't been assigned to one of the characters in the show? 

I love Jack. 

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4 hours ago, Kira53 said:

Milo and Mandy have such great chemistry but I have to say it again that Kevin and Zoe have no chemistry that I can see.

Couldn't agree more about Kevin and Zoe. There is no chemistry whatsoever. The weird thing is they had the actors do a chemistry read together before the actress was cast. Did nobody pick up that it's not working? Just because they're both pretty people doesn't mean they also work well in front of the camera.

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8 minutes ago, ZuluQueenOfDwarves said:

Also, regardless of anyone’s personal opinion about Mandy Moore, she started off with a singing career, so she’s obviously LA good. Yes, the tastes of the late 90’s were different than the early/mid 70’s, but still. I hate the cliche of someone who clearly made it being cast as someone who doesn’t have the chops. Couldn’t the reason have been that they’ve got more pretty, earnest folk singers than they can shake a stick at, and she’s not worth expending the effort? Because that’s more believable. 

I was afraid for a second that there was going to be a hint of a casting couch type situation, so I was glad it didn't go there.  I took from it (besides being an explanation for why her singing career took a big stall) that sometimes recording executives are dead wrong. 

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Ugh, the spider story. As soon as Jack started, I was like fuuuuuuck, another Jack Pearson monologue so he can try to get his way with a stranger.

7 hours ago, ProudMary said:

Who played Squirrel's mother?  IMDb has a listing for the father but not the mother.  I definitely know her as an 80s/90s actress.

The credits at the end of the show list her as Peggy Goss.

8 hours ago, mansfolly said:

Wasn't that Vietnamese motorbike rider Dustin N (too lazy to look it up) from the original "21 Jump Street" with Depp?

Yes, he was listed in the opening credits of the episode.

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Is the song Rebecca sang to Jack the same song we hear on the show each week with just music (no words)?

I am growing tired of the Vietnam story with Jack and his brother -- not of Kevin/Zoe -- I feel like they should have wrapped it up much faster.  I am losing interest in it.  Now Kevin/Zoe - all kinds of interesting.  But seriously, bat?   There is a fine line between adventurous and stupidity....  

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2 hours ago, ZuluQueenOfDwarves said:

 

Also, regardless of anyone’s personal opinion about Mandy Moore, she started off with a singing career, so she’s obviously LA good. Yes, the tastes of the late 90’s were different than the early/mid 70’s, but still. I hate the cliche of someone who clearly made it being cast as someone who doesn’t have the chops. Couldn’t the reason have been that they’ve got more pretty, earnest folk singers than they can shake a stick at, and she’s not worth expending the effort? Because that’s more believable. 

 

What really bothered me about that is Rebecca immediately went back to Pittsburgh after the meeting.  She didn't even try to book a gig in LA.  She is never going to get a record contract if she stays in Pittsburgh.  She needs to permanently move to somewhere where record company personnel can hear her live.  She has already tried singing in bars in her hometown and that has not brought her desired outcome.  I'm listening to the Pretenders while typing this and am thinking about the difference between Chrisie Hynde's music career and her brothers.  Chrissie moved to London from the Akron area and was able to make it big.  Her brother Terry stayed in Akron and music is a side job for him.  I used to know Terry back when I lived in Ohio.

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11 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

And there are 3 Zima sisters and they are all actors!  And they all look alike.  I get it.

Milo was beautiful this episode.  Just beautiful all around.

I finally now know why Mandy Moore's acting bugs me.  She still speaks like a little kid, so unsure of herself with so much upspeak.  It was like a lightbulb went off in my head.  She says about half of her sentences like they're a question.  She has this overly cutesy voice and it's hard for me to see past.  Couple that with her beautifully perfect dollface and she seems kind of un-"real".

one of those sisters was the youngest kid on the Nanny.  That's basically all I got for comments on this episode.  Getting ready to tap out.... I'm not there yet, but I see it coming.  

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10 minutes ago, nkotb said:

...so will a pregnancy. Was I the only person who thought that? I may not have, if we hadn't just had the huge anvil of Kate saying "I'm the only one who can carry on a piece of Dad." Um, Katie girl, my money is on your brother beating you to carrying on that piece of your dad, which your other brother did over a decade ago, biology be damned. 

I really hope they don't go down that road.  To me, Zoe has not worked through her issues enough to be a mother.  She is just starting to open up to Kevin.  I want to see them grow as a couple before adding a baby to the mix.  They already rushed Kate and Toby, I don't want that happening again.  Also, a magical Pearson baby is not going to fix all of Kevin and Zoe's issues no matter what the writers may think.

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11 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Sometimes, I enjoy having an episode without Kate and Randall. And sometimes, it turns out to be a stronger episode without them. It turns out if Kevin was the only kid Pearson, I'd be pretty damn happy with this show being about Jack, Rebecca, and their son Kevin, with his girlfriend Zoe and cousin Beth. 

I think this was the first Jack-centered episode I've liked in a long time. I'm usually extremely critical of Jack, but this was an excellent episode for his character. 

I gave a like to what you said and haven't even watched it yet!!  I'll do that tonight.  I've just been reading recaps for the past 3 or 4 shows as I am just sick of looking at Randall and Katie-girl!

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11 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

She still speaks like a little kid, so unsure of herself with so much upspeak.

I've said this before but one of the most frustrating things to me about Mandy Moore's late-60s acting is that she doesn't change her voice at all. 

20 minutes ago, nkotb said:

...so will a pregnancy. Was I the only person who thought that? I may not have, if we hadn't just had the huge anvil of Kate saying "I'm the only one who can carry on a piece of Dad." Um, Katie girl, my money is on your brother beating you to carrying on that piece of your dad, which your other brother did over a decade ago, biology be damned. 

Nope, I thought "I hope she's not pregnant" when she was sick. She and Kevin just decided they go together for real ten minutes ago, they don't need to be parents. I hope it was just the food and the heat.

I wasn't expecting the Zoe reveal either but I'm glad we know. It explains a lot about her - if she was a man-eater before, as Beth said, it may have been because she didn't trust men after her father betrayed her trust in the worst way.

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7 minutes ago, nkotb said:

Totally agree, @Ohiopirate02, & maybe I'm wrong, but that was my first thought. I was shocked that no one else on this board had mentioned suspecting a Zoe/Kevin pregnancy. 

I immediately thought it but I honestly don't want it to be true, and I don't want to assume that every woman who throws up on TV has to automatically be pregnant. Yet it happens 95% of the time...so I'm hoping this is the 5% that has her actually just genuinely sick from the foreign food plus the long flight. 

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I enjoy this show.. the only thing that annoys me is that the characters do the most cliche things and I always know what's gonna happen by the end of the episode. The beginning of every episode always starts off with a character not wanting to talk about something serious in their lives and they deflect and joke around about something else. But you know by the end of the episode, they're going to end up opening up and having a 5 minute monologue about what is bothering them to their significant other or whoever is in the room. I also feel like Zoe is going to end up being pregnant because for some reason on television, every time a character gets nauseous or throws up, it means they're pregnant.

I liked Randall the best season 1.. but now I really couldn't care less about any of his storylines between De ja, his career, politics , or any of his grand statements that he has to make every episode. Out of the 3 siblings, I actually enjoy Kevins the most. Kate is very annoying and self-centered and Randall always needs to make a big deal about everything. I love anything Jack, especially how he looks in his Vietnam days. Yum. Rebecca is ok sometimes.. but that sweet baby voice she does that is her major factor in trying to play a younger Rebecca is too forced.

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13 minutes ago, nkotb said:

Totally agree, @Ohiopirate02, & maybe I'm wrong, but that was my first thought. I was shocked that no one else on this board had mentioned suspecting a Zoe/Kevin pregnancy. 

That was my first thought when she threw up.  I figured the show was either going to make her pregnant or have cancer.  Luckily, it looks like it was just regular ol' bat-induced food poisoning.

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I definitely don't want them to be pregnant, & I hope it's not true, but I'm holding firm. I hadn't even thought of the angst, but what if Kate doesn't carry to term, & Kevin via Zoe does? That will bring all of the angst & make it allllllll about Katie girl & how unfair life is (not to make light of a miscarriage, I'm just saying that Kate knew the risks of IVF). However, they could also go the other way, & have Kate's & Kevin's babies due at basically the same time, sort of like a next generation of quasi twins. Or, if Kate has twins ~ didn't she have 2 viable babies? ~ & Kevin/Zoe have 1, it could be the new big 3. The possibilities are endless.

I really think Zoe is pregnant. I'm not endorsing it, & I'd rather have Kevin continue to grow up like he has been, & have the relationship between Kevin & Zoe grow without adding a baby, but I think all signs point to a pregnancy.

ETA: just to reiterate, I've actually been thinking that Kevin would have a baby before Kate, since Kate said early in the season that she was "the only one who could pass on a piece of Dad". That to me was the biggest anvil. Couple that with Zoe being suddenly-sick, & I think that's what's happened.

Edited by nkotb · Reason: I'm forgetful.
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3 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I immediately thought it but I honestly don't want it to be true, and I don't want to assume that every woman who throws up on TV has to automatically be pregnant. Yet it happens 95% of the time...so I'm hoping this is the 5% that has her actually just genuinely sick from the foreign food plus the long flight. 

Yes, I thought it, too, and agree that this is has a high probability of being a writing tip-off.  Why else have her be sick like that, they could have chosen other ways to have her be feeling vulnerable and ready to have a revelatory conversation with Kevin.  I hope it is a red herring, though.  Having the twins procreate at the same time would probably nauseate me. 

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They made a pretty big deal about Zoe eating the bat and Kevin not eating it so I'm inclined to think that the bat is just a bat and not a surprise pregnancy.

I enjoyed the break from Randall and Kate. I dislike those two at this point.

I really liked Zoe telling Kevin that the reason she was telling Kevin about her father is because she didn't want it to wreck their relationship. That and Kevin telling Zoe why he wanted to know about her but it being her decision what she tells him was really great. Now I'm a little more invested in their relationship.

For me, the problem with showing Rebecca and Jack's back story is that now we know how involved Jack was in Rebecca's dream to be a singer in the beginning. That makes his behavior with wrecking her singing career later that much worse. It's like he was being supportive and driving to LA with her just to land her and then once he got her, she was supposed to only do what he wanted her to do. It's probably not supposed to come across like that but I can't forget how awful he was when she started singing again. He knew how into it she was and probably how hurt she was to hear she was "Pittsburgh good" yet he doesn't care about how she feels to get the chance to sing again? It's all about him.

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