S04.E17: Null and Annoyed

[Trini]

Quote

Barry and Ralph take different approaches to finding the remaining bus metas before DeVoe gets to them. However, Ralph's cavalier attitude frustrates Barry and the two clash over what it means to be a hero. Meanwhile, Breacher (guest star Danny Trejo) returns to ask Cisco for a favor.

Kevin Smith directed the episode written by Lauren Certo & Kristen Kim

 

 

[Jediknight]

That was beyond filler.

Best things about the episode were Trejo chewing scenery, Jay and Silent Bob, and that ending.  What the hell is going on with Harry?

[GHScorpiosRule]

I hate Ralph SO MUCH. That is all.

Edited April 11, 2018 by GHScorpiosRule

[Primal Slayer]

How many episodes do we have to go through where they have Ralph go through a crisis where he doesnt want to be a hero anymore so they have to prop him up and congratulate him on doing a good job? This is probably Kevin Smith's weakest episode. 

Breacher not being able to access his powers was done poorly, if you want to use the "aging" storyline then at least show him getting exhausted by using his powers. He is still able to breach but he just can't throw a vibe? ok....I would think going Earth2Earth would be more physically/mentally demanding then throwing a vibe. I was disappointed that they didn't make the vampire into a doppelganger of some past character in the Flarrow-verse.

I am 100% over DeVoe...they have made him so uninteresting and vile. Which sucks because he started out with real promise. 

Overall it was a pretty boring episode.

[shantown]

The Flash has been reduced to fart jokes. Been a fun ride, but I'm done with this season.  Best of luck to those sticking around!

[cambridgeguy]

Barry Allen - Is acting a bit like a self righteous asshole.

Ralph - Definitely acting like a childish asshole.

Are we supposed to be rooting for Devoe to kill Ralph?  I'm pretty sure that's not the intent.

[tennisgurl]

Oh Harry, dont start going down that road! Is the helmet making him more like Thawn, or is he just losing it by messing with his brain? or did Thawn or some other evil Wells replace him?

Look, I am in the minority on this board that basically likes Ralph, but oh my GOD can we stop with these "Ralph needs a pep talk to be a hero and everyone props him up" plots? This is, like the 50th one this season, or on some variation! I think when he is a part of the ensemble, Ralph is fine, but him being suddenly the Best and Most Awesome Hero is just a pain. And it has to make Barry look like a big stick in the mud to justify it. 

DeVoe is just creepy now. His wife figuring out that he is drugging and gas lighting her was quite disconcerting, but not enough to make this plot really engaging. I miss when they were an evil super team, and he wasn't just a majorly icky asshole. 

I did think the Breacher and Cisco stuff was pretty good, and I enjoy Danny Trejo a lot when he shows up. Plus, Danny Trejo fighting dinosaurs and medieval vampires? Hell yes! Can we get more of that? Cisco and Gypsy could come! I do think its weird that people can apparently age out of metahuman powers. But vibe powers have always been different from other metahuman powers to an extent, so it doesn't bother me. 

Mostly, this seemed like filler. Not terrible, but nothing very interesting, especially after a return from hiatus. 

Hi Jay and Silent Bob! 

Edited April 11, 2018 by tennisgurl

[Pepper the Cat]

My gosh, that was painful.

Not a fan of fart jokes. And there were so many in this episode.

The acting by the security guards at the museum was just so so bad.

And Ralph’s behaviour in general was obnoxious.

[Maverick]

For the love of Beebo, why are we going down the Thawne road again?  Given that when seemed disappointed that Gideon didn't activate at first, I'm hoping it's just Harry trying to use Thawne's toys (even though, it was established Gideon was gone after the first season).  I really don't want to see a redux of Tom C playing the villain next season.

 Ralph doesn't bug me as much as some, but even I'm tired of his crisis of faith/courage/heroism/love each week.   He does get bonus points, though, for telling Barry to burp his way down like Charlie Bucket.  

[catrice2]

I can't even watch a full episode.  Thanks to all for letting me know I missed nothing.  I dislike this more than Savitar, and that takes some doing. 

[DearEvette]

The episode title should have been Dull and Annoying.  This was really the worst episode of the season.

The Dull

- The Breacher B-plot

- Harry and that damned Hat

- The Meta of the week

 

The Annoying

-Ralph

-Using Iris as a Ralph Apologist

-Ralph morphing into Joe

-Ralph

-How easily a meta can get out of the meta dampening cuffs

-Barry's speed not being fast enough when the plot needs it  (he could have saved the car falling and gotten Null into Star Labs before she could pick the lock on those cuffs)

- Ralph

 

The only interesting thing was Marlize.

[bettername2come]

That was a ridiculous waste of time in the main storyline. I will say Mrs. Devoe is growing more sympathetic in her sci-fi Lifetime movie plot as Devoe grows creepier. It was fun to see Jay and Silent Bob and Danny Trejo. And Original Recipe Gideon!  I wonder if Harry is really Thawne or if that helmet's messing up his brain. And Cisco's hair was on point tonight.

Edited April 11, 2018 by bettername2come

[Lantern7]

Once again: I think Ralph's abilities have affected his mind. He acts like an annoying dork, he gets ripped, he learns from his mistakes . . . and then he's an annoying dork again at the start of the new episode. It's annoying. And I don't want Ralph to be annoying, because the canon version was a quality supporting hero for so many years.

Also annoying: Ralph changing colors. I don't think Plastic Man ever could pull that. I can buy the shapeshifting, but posing as Joe? I'm not angry . . . just perplexed. And annoyed that I'm perplexed. Jesse-as-Ralph-as-Joe was funny, though, though I prefer David Melissa-as-J'onn-as-Kara.

I'm tickled Cliff still has Izzy's accent. On the down side, he's manipulating on a whole other level with the missus, and that's sad, even if she is a bitch. Nothing like recording a warning for yourself, then finding that you did that a lot of times already. Sadly, I think the obvious direction has Cliff saving Ralph for last. He'd probably figure Ralph's body can handle all that dark matter, and his brain can adjust to the massive intellect. Also, he can impress his wife. "I apologize for violating your mind on multiple occasions. I'll make up for it now. You'd better stand back for this one." Then he winks and blows really hard into his thumb.

ETA: Oh, and since it's been shown that Ralph can "do" Cliff, Cliff would "return" looking like himself.

Breacher plot? Whatever. Is Carlos staying on for next season? Because there's no real way Cisco would leave Team Flash, even for Cynthia. Caitlin can't make all those pop culture references, and I doubt Killer Frost could, either.

Damn, Harry is also backsliding into douchedom, though activating Gideon was a nice swerve. Does Maisie play her/it as well.

The writer that had Ralph quipping, "We could call ourselves 'The DC Comics'!" needs to be smacked. Hard.

Edited April 11, 2018 by Lantern7

[Writing Wrongs]

1 hour ago, Pepper the Cat said:

The acting by the security guards at the museum was just so so bad.

Jay & Silent Bob. I think they were supposed to be bad. I don't know, I was fast forwarding a lot.

Edited April 11, 2018 by Writing Wrongs

[tennisgurl]

Can we get the people who did "Enter Flashtime" back for a few more episodes? Please? 

This show has a tendency to overuse its long arcing villains. Maybe more one off episodes would do the show some good? 

[UNOSEZ]

So this is why we could never get anything proper written for kid flash... So we can have episode after episode of Ralph Dibny???... Sure he's doing ok on the waverider.. But seriously.. Joe west doesnt get to bond  with his son so Ralph can make fart jokes...  Madre de dios

[Trini]

So 80% of this episode was trash. But I was kinda expecting that from everything I'd heard about it. Once again, Ralph-focused episodes tend to be the weakest ones. I really hope he's gone after this season.

I did like the subplot with Cisco and Breacher - with a shoutout to Trejo's Donuts! But Cisco and Caitlin did get sidelined. Again. For Ralph. ::sigh::

What's going on with Clifford and Marlize is horrible! And I don't think it advanced anything, really? But at least they showed that Marlize was smart enough to figure out what was going on (several times), and Clifford has gone stone cold.

Huh?? How did Harry get access to Gideon? I'm pretty sure Gideon left with Eobard.

Edited April 11, 2018 by Trini

[Misslindsey]

Quote

Look, I am in the minority on this board that basically likes Ralph, but oh my GOD can we stop with these "Ralph needs a pep talk to be a hero and everyone props him up" plots? This is, like the 50th one this season, or on some variation! I think when he is a part of the ensemble, Ralph is fine, but him being suddenly the Best and Most Awesome Hero is just a pain. And it has to make Barry look like a big stick in the mud to justify it.

I like Ralph as well. I agree that they need to stop with the same Ralph plots in practically every episode. I think he basically had one episode where he was worried about Devoe being after the bus metas since he was one of them. That I could understand more, but the constant Ralph questioning himself on how to be a hero got old pretty fast.

Not much else to say about the episode since it was pretty unremarkable. 

[Richness]

The stupid, it burns. Hated this episode and everything about it.

[thuganomics85]

So, Jay and Silent Bob apparently live in this universe?  That raises so many questions.  Frankly, questions that are more interesting than a lot that is going on right now.

For Beebo's sakes, we have another freaking plot about how Ralph clashes with the team, but it all ends with him getting a pep talk and then saving the day?  Only this time, it felt like the show actually wanted me to take his side over Barry's, which, really?  OK, maybe Barry was being a humorless downer (which I can't really blame him, at this point), and there is likely some truth to Barry needing to learn to think on his feet more, but I was totally with him on Ralph's lame jokes and need to go off half-cocked.  Half of the time, Ralph's "improve" was unnecessary and gain them nothing, so Barry isn't wrong for thinking it was stupid.  In the end, I just don't get why the show is trying so hard with him, and it feels like he's been a bigger part of this season than Iris, Caitlin, Cisco, and Joe.

Fun to see Breacher again, and Danny Trejo was a blast as always.  I doubt anything will come out of the "Will Cisco leave the team to take over for him and work with Gypsy" plot, but considering how he's been used this season, Cisco would honestly fare better there, I imagine.

Null was Dull.  Nothing to see here.

The stuff with DeVoe and Marlize was creepy, but might have been my favorite part, since Kim Engelbrecht is really selling it.  I hope it ends with Marlize finding a way to counter it, and turning on him.

Harry definitely seems to heading back to the dark side, I see.

Stupid episode.  Can't believe this season actually started out promising.  And, of course, I think it's still the highest rated show on The CW.  Go figure.

[MarkHB]

8 minutes ago, Trini said:

Huh?? How did Harry get access to Gideon? I'm pretty sure Gideon left with Eobard.

I was wondering if that jewel had something to do with it.

I was aware of Jay and Silent Bob, but I had never actually seen them (or any of Kevin Smith's stuff outside of these shows) before.  For those who don't know, Silent Bob, the short, fat one, is actually played by Kevin Smith himself.

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

oh my GOD can we stop with these "Ralph needs a pep talk to be a hero and everyone props him up" plots?

I agree.  Those are Barry's plots. :)

[ruby24]

This was a terrible, really boring episode. It feels like they're treading water now, until something bad happens to Ralph next week (my guess). I think they knew they had nothing and no one had any ideas, so they were just like, well how about Ralph makes jokes and annoys Barry. LAME.

You know what? If they have nothing for a week with a filler episode, why not have an entirely different subplot for the main characters? How about Barry and Iris go to the movies and something happens with a love spell meta? Occasional scenes with the DeVoes to show what's going on with them sure, but not EVERYTHING has to tie back to that every week.

They hit serious problems at this time of the season every single year. The answer is to come up with more radical standalone plots (go back and watch Buffy, writers, seriously) and play more into the main characters personal lives. We never see Barry and Iris in their loft anymore. 

MOVE THE SHOW OUT OF STAR LABS. I am SO sick of looking at that set. I hate it. I want them to make a commitment to get rid of it entirely for next season, just as an experiment. Go back to CCPD, set the show there, have Barry do his day job more, have Cisco work there, Iris can be there a lot as a reporter (if they're going back to that), and have Wells and Killer Frost go evil.

I'm 100% serious. I want Star Labs jettisoned. Do it for ONE season- see if it rejuvenates the show.

Edited April 11, 2018 by ruby24

[Jack Kerouac]

The one thing I noticed more than anything else in this episode was how SHORT Null was. When she was parading around like an idiot at that party, she looked a foot shorter than anyone else.

Also, during that party, why didn't the rich people's security just gun her down? It's not like she could have stopped them.

[Trini]

1 hour ago, thuganomics85 said:

The stuff with DeVoe and Marlize was creepy, but might have been my favorite part, since Kim Engelbrecht is really selling it.  I hope it ends with Marlize finding a way to counter it, and turning on him.

Oh yes; I really want her to be part of taking down DeVoe.

[ruby24]

Another thing about moving the show out of Star Labs- I really think it can be good for a show to change settings, especially if it's going to be a long running show, which The Flash is.

Not to bring everything back to Buffy, but on that show it was the school library for the first three seasons, Giles's house in Season 4, and then the Magic Shop for the next two (final season was mostly set in Buffy's house I think).

But the point is, I really would have gotten sick of the library if it had been set there for all seven seasons. This is four seasons in a row of staring at these people in the same, gray, drab settings of that damn lab. I need them to be outside more, interact with the people of the city he's supposed to be protecting.

Edited April 11, 2018 by ruby24

[KirkB]

You can keep trying all you want show. You're never going to get me to like Ralph.

Danny Trejo, on the other hand, can stay as long as he likes. Even if he's just sitting in the back of the scene in his flower print shirt and shorts, eating donuts. It'd still be more fun to watch than Ralph.

I loved Thawne. I liked Zoom, at least initially. Savitar was a Transformer, which at least was interesting to look at. But Thinker, I really want to punch him in the...whatever is most appropriate for whatever body he's in at the time.

I knew Thawne's vault was still there, and the files, but for some reason I didn't think Gideon herself still was. Who was her voice? It wasn't still Morena Baccarin was it? I couldn't tell.

Edited April 11, 2018 by KirkB

[cambridgeguy]

7 hours ago, ruby24 said:

I think they knew they had nothing and no one had any ideas, so they were just like, well how about Ralph makes jokes and annoys Barry. LAME.

A comic book show should never run out of ideas.  There are hundreds of issues of the Flash and I find it hard to believe that not one of them could have been adapted into something better than this

[Quark]

Decent episode. Ralph is terribly annoying, but I really enjoyed the Breacher storyline, as well as Marlize's scenes in the episode.

Breacher's line about seeing his reflection in his knife was absolutely hilarious. In fact, most of his and Cisco's lines were very amusing. More of this humour please, rather than fart jokes writers.

I think it's about time we hear more about this "Enlightenment" that Devoe keeps banging on about. 

[Starry]

Terrible episode to come back to after a hiatus.

I'd rather watch 40 minutes of Cisco, Caitlin and Breacher than whatever was going on in the A plot. And it's not like their scenes were that great either.

I hate that they use Iris to prop up characters who have been horrible to her, first Killer Frost now Ralph. The show wants me to be on her and Ralph's side but I was on Barry's.

I feel for Marlize and miss the original DeVoe. The Izzy actress can't replicate Neil's mannerism.

I'm over the Thinking Cap. Harry puts it on and comes up with every solution. Boring.

I don't get how Ralph morphing into Barry would trick the Thinker. He'd soon realize that only one of them has super speed?

[mxc90]

I'll give Kevin Smith a pass if he directed this episode after his heart attack. Probably wasn't thinking straight.

The Mechanic/Thinker story was a little more interesting than anything else this episode.

[Lady Calypso]

So, I tuned in for at least the second half to see what I've missed, since I basically stopped watching, besides the Iris Speedster episode, and yeah, I'm still not making this show a priority to watch.

I got annoyed when Barry got the hero pep talk about 50 times in the first season (or two). It pisses me off more to see Ralph be reset so he can get it every episode he's in. 

53 minutes ago, mxc90 said:

I'll give Kevin Smith a pass if he directed this episode after his heart attack. Probably wasn't thinking straight.

This was before his heart attack, so no pass on him. Just a bad episode for him to be directing.

The Marlize/Cliff stuff really is hard to watch, with Marlize trying to go all Memento and Cliff continuing to erase her memory. 

The Breacher/Cisco stuff was...tolerable, I guess. We know Cisco isn't going to leave, so it'll only be a dilemma until the end of the season. However, since Cisco can vibe anywhere he wants in seconds, it would be a good second job for him. It would get him out of Star Labs. 

That ending confused me. I don't get Harry's response to Gideon, as if he's already talked to her before. Has he gone completely nuts now? It makes no sense for him to greet Gideon as if they're old friends and as if he's Eobard Thawne. It's only being done for dramatic effect; otherwise, the dialogue doesn't work. 

I'm really glad this is a show I am not putting effort in to watch anymore. Once a show of mine resorts to fart jokes, that's where I check out.

[ALMoDe]

Has anyone else thought that it was odd how precise Wells was when he mentioned it had been 1087 days since he last spoke to Gideon? I took a look at this and if you were to go back 1087 days this would be around the 20th April 2015 by looking at the episode guide interestingly enough there are two episodes which could help to shed some light on this Wells mystery.

On the 21st April 2015 “Who is Harrison Wells” quite an apt reference given everyone is now asking this.  In this episode it featured a meta who could, wait for it shape-shift into anyone he touches. He is captured and placed inside the Pipeline, coincidentally we now have a bus-meta called Melting Point who can transfer powers to another, wonder if this will feature at all or is linked?

Interestingly enough the episode aired on the 14th April 2015,  “All Star Team Up” Dr Tina McGee revealed that Wells personality changed after his wife’s demise which during the episode was the reveal that Wells was in fact Thawn, who had killed the Earth 1 Wells. What is curious is that we also know that Harry Wells from Earth 2 has lost his wife and it has affected him to the point that impacted on his relationship with his daughter Jessie Quick.   

[benteen]

I'm not one to defend Barry here but how the hell is he in the wrong?  Ralph was annoying as hell in this episode and goofed off throughout it.  Once again, we are "treated" to another freakin episode where Ralph doesn't want to be a hero because the writers literally cannot stop writing the same damn story week after week!  Enough!

Speaking of character traits they don't abandon, Barry being a control freak and not listening to other point of views.  The writers do love reusing the same plot points over and over again although he wasn't wrong with Ralph in this episode.

Wells going evil again...well, at least it's better than the Wells who literally cannot string two words together anymore and have an actual conversation.  Team Flash creates another villain for themselves!

[Mellowyellow]

I enjoyed the episode.  I thoroughly enjoyed the Cisco/Breacher stuff! I thought it was great fun.

I really hope Marlize gets to kick DeVoe's ass! This episode really made me feel sorry for Marlize. Sure she's evil too but I do hope she gets her revenge on DeVoe.

Didn't mind the Barry/Ralph stuff either. I think more than anything this episode highlights for me how much I enjoy the supporting cast on the Flash. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, ALMoDe said:

Has anyone else thought that it was odd how precise Wells was when he mentioned it had been 1087 days since he last spoke to Gideon? I took a look at this and if you were to go back 1087 days this would be around the 20th April 2015 by looking at the episode guide interestingly enough there are two episodes which could help to shed some light on this Wells mystery.

It wasn't Wells who said that; it was Gideon.

1 hour ago, benteen said:

I'm not one to defend Barry here but how the hell is he in the wrong?  Ralph was annoying as hell in this episode and goofed off throughout it.  Once again, we are "treated" to another freakin episode where Ralph doesn't want to be a hero because the writers literally cannot stop writing the same damn story week after week!  Enough!

Speaking of character traits they don't abandon, Barry being a control freak and not listening to other point of views.  The writers do love reusing the same plot points over and over again although he wasn't wrong with Ralph in this episode.

Wells going evil again...well, at least it's better than the Wells who literally cannot string two words together anymore and have an actual conversation.  Team Flash creates another villain for themselves!

TEAM BARRY ALL THE WAY ESPECIALLY IN THIS EPISODE. And the ending was all kinds of bullshit, because this is WELLS, not THAWNE. Sure a more jerky version of Wells, since we know the original Wells from Earth One was a nice guy who THAWNE MURDERED and made himself into Wells' image. Just stop with the bullshit, writers!

And Barry knows what he's talking about, because he's speaking from experience and the same mistakes he made. I don't know how an ASS like Ralph, treating everything as a joke because his own ASS is afraid of dying, and Barry trying to get him to take things seriously, makes Barry the wrong guy or the asshole in this scenario. Shut up, Iris.

1 hour ago, Mellowyellow said:

Didn't mind the Barry/Ralph stuff either. I think more than anything this episode highlights for me how much I enjoy the supporting cast on the Flash. 

Ralph is just a "funnier" crack jokes version of Wild Dong. Without the hostility. And this show's "version" of Dibney is a fucking INSULT to the comics/DCAU version, who was so much more likeable. They should have just made his ass Plastic Man, who WAS/IS an ASS.

So, has Devoe been ruff'ng Marlize since the beginning? Or since he took over the first meta? The sound was so awful I couldn't understand, if Marlize truly did love the original Devoe, or if he'd been drugging her from the beginning.

 

9 hours ago, ruby24 said:

Another thing about moving the show out of Star Labs- I really think it can be good for a show to change settings, especially if it's going to be a long running show, which The Flash is.

Not to bring everything back to Buffy, but on that show it was the school library for the first three seasons, Giles's house in Season 4, and then the Magic Shop for the next two (final season was mostly set in Buffy's house I think).

WORD. You don't even have to go back as far as Buffy. Smallville knew how to use different settings, film OUTSIDE as well, and re-use the same settings to look like different settings! And their budget wasn't nearly as much as these current shows. Like I stated elsewhere before, the reason for filming in Vancouver is because it's cheaper, yet it seems too expensive to use or retool the same sets to look like different settings? And the CGI wasn't bad on Smallville, yet it could utilize their sets to make them look different instead of being in the Watchtower all the fucking time.

Edited April 11, 2018 by GHScorpiosRule

[Primal Slayer]

 How us Breacher going to vacation on other Earths when it's illegal to to go to other Earths? That's been his and Gypsys big thing. Hunting world jumpers. 

[Starry]

2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

So, has Devoe been ruff'ng Marlize since the beginning? Or since he took over the first meta? The sound was so awful I couldn't understand, if Marlize truly did love the original Devoe, or if he'd been drugging her from the beginning.

He's been drugging her since he took over Becky's body. Their relationship has reached a point of no return. Too dysfunctional.

I couldn't agree more that they need to get out of STAR Labs. It's the only main set we saw in this episode. Of course they can't spend time at CCPD now that Barry is not working there anymore. Joe is not important enough to show him at work without Barry there ?

[marketdoctor]

Quote

I think Ralph's abilities have affected his mind. He acts like an annoying dork, he gets ripped, he learns from his mistakes . . . and then he's an annoying dork again at the start of the new episode.

This would be remotely redeemable if DeVoe was erasing Ralph's memory as well.  I suspect they're building to Ralph needing to give Barry a pep talk, but there are better ways to get there. 

Marilze's look of confusion growing to horror when she discovered there was already a file called "New Lemonade Recipe" was brilliant acting.  It was like a time loop story, but without the actual time loop.

[Trini]

10 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

A comic book show should never run out of ideas.  There are hundreds of issues of the Flash and I find it hard to believe that not one of them could have been adapted into something better than this

They don't even need to go back to the comic books; they could do things with just the mythology they've already set up. (I think "Enter Flashtime" was a good example of this.)

 

6 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

 How us Breacher going to vacation on other Earths when it's illegal to to go to other Earths? That's been his and Gypsys big thing. Hunting world jumpers. 

Different rules for Collection Agents/vibers?

[ottoDbusdriver]

On 4/10/2018 at 9:16 PM, tennisgurl said:

Mostly, this seemed like filler. Not terrible, but nothing very interesting, especially after a return from hiatus. 

 

Yet filler all the same. 

AND enough with the pep talks already.  They've already filled their quota of pep talks for the season, how about some actual story.

As mentioned upthread, Null was noticeably shorter than everyone in the room, and not bullet-proof.  So Flash was not even required to take her down.
 

On 4/10/2018 at 10:14 PM, DearEvette said:

-Barry's speed not being fast enough when the plot needs it  (he could have saved the car falling and gotten Null into Star Labs before she could pick the lock on those cuffs)

How come the metacuffs are as easily picked as regular handcuffs ?  That seems like a really big screw up by Cisco.

And yeah, Barry could have done both.

And the producers really need to update the intro since Barry no longer works for the CCPD.

Edited April 12, 2018 by ottoDbusdriver

[Katsullivan]

What a horrible episode. They sent Wally West off so they could write nonsense like this to prop up their Recurring White Male of the season. Also, why is Harry here? Harry is redundant. Harry's presence requires Barry to stupid to make Harry relevant. Run faster? Seriously? S1!Wellsobard made sense. He wasn't just smart, he was also an experienced speedster albeit an evil one. The problem with Team Flash is that there are just too many metas and too many "smart people" whatever that means. I have no idea with Caitlin did in this episode either. Again, why is she here? 

The most interesting part was the Mechanic's arc and even then, I felt that I was watching a different show. I'd really love the Flash writers to get their act together. This season has had some great episodes, but the overall quality sucks. 

[Cekrypton1]

Some thoughts and questions.

The presence of Ralph as comic relief is frustrating, because it further pushes Barry into the uptight, control freak leader role. I know that he is worried about things these days, but I miss the old, "I know it's serious but I can still have fun and enjoy myself while doing it." You know who was espousing that in this episode? Ralph. We already have an Oliver Queen--Let Barry have fun!

Questions:

1. Have they ever explained the connection (is there one?) between Star Labs Gideon (voiced by Morean Baccarin) and the Gideon of the Legends' time ship (voiced by Amy Pemberton)?

2. Who pays for Caitlin and Cisco's salaries? Who funds Star Labs?

3. Why in the early eps of S2 did they show Barry repairing the damage caused by the breach in the finale, and yet he never repaired the Star Labs building?

4. How they heck does the Pipeline jail work? Who cares and feeds all the metas?

[benteen]

I know they don't want to make Barry looks too powerful in dealing with criminals but good lord, there are times where he could just knock out the metas or cuff them and instead he just stands in front of a meta, waiting until they attack him.  It's too much to ask these writers to fix it and it's been that away forever.

[GHScorpiosRule]

One thing that Barry could have done, has done in the past, but didn't do this week, because...PLOT! CONTRIVANCE! was to spin/circle his hands, creating those tornado like thingies, to prevent himself from floating away, when he was essentially filled up with helium.

[DearEvette]

2 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Yet filler all the same. 

Yes this was a horrible filler episode.  But filler episodes don't need to be inherently bad. 'Enter Flashtime' (the one with nuclear bomb) was a great filler episode. 

Sigh.  This season started so strong!  With Barry coming out the of the speedforce and the Devoe's being great adversaries.  But the writers are committed to making everything a big damn mystery so we'll (supposedly) be ZOMG! Surprised when everything is revealed.  But they've lost control of the story...again. It was a terrible decision to kill off the original DeVoe actor.  He and his relationship with Marlize was what made the DeVoe's so interesting.  Not a single on of the actors who were put in place as the  avatar of DeVoe has been in any way as interesting or compelling as the original actor.  They actually make the scenes rather silly.  Only Marlize is still holding that down.  Also why continue to hide their plan from the audience?  Why not let us clue in a little earlier one what the whole deal is?  In order to spin wheels until they reveal all we are getting derailed by too much pointless Ralph drama and now they are throwing in some Harry drama at the last minute.  Ugh.  It is like they can't help themselves.  They can't let themselves be great.

[dkb]

Can't believe I feel so bad for Marlize; I mean she is in on the whole ruin other people's lives business with Clifford too, but I guess now she's feeling more guilty. I wonder when she'll figure out that she needs to pretend to be going through the routine again and then run the hell away from that place.

[Trini]

On 4/12/2018 at 10:50 AM, Cekrypton1 said:

1. Have they ever explained the connection (is there one?) between Star Labs Gideon (voiced by Morean Baccarin) and the Gideon of the Legends' time ship (voiced by Amy Pemberton)?

They're (supposed to be) the same entity. The Flash hasn't said anything about Time Ship Gideon, though. I don't know if Legends has said anything about it.

 

On 4/12/2018 at 11:27 AM, DearEvette said:

Sigh.  This season started so strong!  With Barry coming out the of the speedforce and the Devoe's being great adversaries.  But the writers are committed to making everything a big damn mystery so we'll (supposedly) be ZOMG! Surprised when everything is revealed.  But they've lost control of the story...again. It was a terrible decision to kill off the original DeVoe actor.  He and his relationship with Marlize was what made the DeVoe's so interesting.  Not a single on of the actors who were put in place as the  avatar of DeVoe has been in any way as interesting or compelling as the original actor.  They actually make the scenes rather silly.  Only Marlize is still holding that down.  Also why continue to hide their plan from the audience?  Why not let us clue in a little earlier one what the whole deal is?  In order to spin wheels until they reveal all we are getting derailed by too much pointless Ralph drama and now they are throwing in some Harry drama at the last minute.  Ugh.  It is like they can't help themselves.  They can't let themselves be great.

Despite Ralph, I also thought the season had a good start. They learned at least one lesson by showing the audience the villains at the start, and giving them some backstory. But then, it's the middle part of the season where they still flounder. Trial of the Flash could have been interesting, but they mainly just wanted Barry in prison.

Edited April 13, 2018 by Trini

[Chyromaniac]

Look- it’s not just that “the bus metas” is a terrible name for a group of characters, but I hate that both the Devoes and Team Flash have decided to call them that.

[KirkB]

15 hours ago, Trini said:

They're (supposed to be) the same entity. The Flash hasn't said anything about Time Ship Gideon, though. I don't know if Legends has said anything about it.

I don't think any of the Legends know Thawne's time vault with the Gideon computer (that Barry supposedly built, somehow) in it even exists. From what I recall the people who know are Barry, Cisco, Caitlin, probably Joe and Iris, apparently Harry, Thawne wherever he is, and Oliver Queen. I don't think the Legends would know to ask if that Gideon is connected to the one on the Waverider. I don't see how it could be.

[sarthaz]

I don't understand this episode at all.

1) Breacher can't access his powers but can breach at will?

2) Barry learns how to improvise from Ralph after 4 seasons of literally improvising every single week?

Dafuq is this shit?