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  1. Starry

    Caitlin Snow

    I think Wallace inherited a character with a lot of baggage and he's trying to make the best out of it. The previous showrunners have ran this character into the ground. Between the retcons and whitewashing I am not sure what Frost is supposed to be. This means she can be anything, including the rebellious artist who's learning how to function in the real world. As usual, I found it telling that the team could go on without Caitlin. This irks me. I don't know why the other person even suggested it when that's not how the multiverse works. Caitlin can't have one set of parents on one Earth and a different set of parents on another Earth and still look like DP. They went out of their way to not include Nora in Elseworlds because they couldn't explain how Grant's Barry and Stephen's Barry could both produce a daughter that looks like Jessica's Nora. That would have been too much even for a comic book show. Joan can have a daughter named Caitlin Snow with a split personality named Killer Frost. She just can't look like DP.
  2. I am not talking about the length of the relationship but the character's personality. Patty Spivot = quirky, nerdy, "cool girlfriend" who worships at the altar of the hero/heroine while the Pilot love interest is unavailable. I am not invested in any character but this upsets me because it seems like they are self-sabotaging with Sophie. Taking their time with their Pilot OTP is perfectly fine. Using the obstacles that they put in there ( a marriage, a secret, whatever ) as an excuse to sideline the couple and focus on a fan service-type character and her romance with the lead is not. I am afraid that this is going to end up like a Patty/Barry situation where all the focus is on them while the Pilot love interest disappears from the show. I look forward to being proven wrong. The only Pilot love interest who wasn't replaced is Iris. James was replaced. The Hawks were written off the show altogether. Outside of the Arrowverse, Gotham replaced its Pilot love interest. The circumstances may vary but Laurel seems to be the rule and Iris the exception. If this new character is successful, Sophie will be in real danger.
  3. I don't want to be negative but if this character is Patty Spivot 2.0 I'm out.
  4. I wonder if Black Siren isn't the reason why Earth-2 got destroyed on Arrow. The multiverse may have been introduced on Flash but the Flash Earth-2 characters were either one-offs or got written off the show in season 4 ( Harry and Jesse ). Arrow has a series regular who could be affected by the Earth-2 destruction way more than anyone on Flash. I am speculating as I have stopped watching Arrow mid-season 5 and have no idea if Black Siren knows about what happened to her home Earth or if she even cares. I think they need to mention it on Flash though. Harry was the team's friend and Jesse was also someone who teamed up with them a couple times and was romantically involved with Wally. The Flash fans deserve to know what happened to these characters.
  5. I hope that Barry and Iris deciding to "make every moment count" doesn't mean they'll prepare the team for the Crisis but won't have time for themselves. They aren't just responsible for the team. They are a married couple in love and these could be their last months together. I need the show to give them moments that are just about them. The scenes they've had in this episode were beautifully done. It's a start. The Crisis plot with Barry, Jay and Joan was really good. Jay makes every episode better for me. He's probably the only recurring character I am always excited to see. The B plot introduced an interesting concept and potential storyline about an organization that recruits metas for shady reasons. My only problem is that I hate Cecile's powers and I can take or leave Cecile as a character. I also don't get how they went from "this aspiring reporter girl is not a murderer" to " this aspiring reporter girl totally deserves to get an internship". But it's not the worst thing the show has done. I can live with that. Frost isn't as cute and endearing as the show wants me to believe. I find it strange that Joe gave Barry a whole speech about heroism without knowing anything about the sacrifice he was supposed to make. It's odd that he wasn't curious to find out more about it.
  6. Starry

    Caitlin Snow

    I don't get this either. How aware is Caitlin of what's happening when Frost is behind the wheel and vice versa? Because in season 4 they made it look like they needed to exchange notes to understand what the other was up to. Frost used to show up in the middle of fights without understanding how she got there. She used to act surprised upon finding out what Caitlin was wearing after taking over, etc. Then they used that device to communicate more easily with each other. Now the shows canon says that Frost was always aware of what was happening with Caitlin when Caitlin was the one in control. It's like Frost was a spectator in Caitlin's life. Ralph made a list of all the things that happened to Caitlin and Frost's reply was "I know, I was there". Despite the continuity issues you mentioned, at a certain point Caitlin and Frost started to communicate during fights. But when did this change? When did they go from "We need notes/a device to communicate and know what's happening while I am not the one in control" to "I always know what's happening, even when I am not the one behind the wheel"? Is there a scene I missed? Is this another retcon? Frost knows everything about Caitlin's personal life because she was always there but Caitlin needs to have a private convo with Frost like she is suddenly unaware of what's happening when Frost is in control? It's impossible for me to make sense of this character.
  7. The big group is on a Legends set but I think they were filming for the Flash hour. I don't know about the guest stars but I wonder if they aren't purposefully hiding something about Oliver's role. Last year Stephen posted a lot of BTS pics and the paps also got enough photos of him filming outside. This year there's barely anything. Also, didn't Stephen say that he was supposed to play more than one character?
  8. Good episode. The cast had great interactions. There was an energy there that I think was missing during season 5. All of them were also seamlessly incorporated into the plot. Chester was fun. Barry making sure he got back Nora's jacket for Iris was a sweet romantic gesture. The Monitor knows how to ruin the mood. That's exactly what he wanted. I believe Cisco mentioned something about the new suit being almost ready. I don't think this new costume was supposed to be a surprise for Barry so there wasn't much fanfare sorrounding its reveal. I felt the same way. Except when they were talking over coffee I feared he was going to catch feelings for her because she reminded him of his mother which is just gross. I was relieved when he pretty much admitted he just wanted something from her.
  9. I don't think their backstory is as bad as Lauriver's but they could have made the whole thing less angsty. There was already enough drama with what happened at the academy back in the day. There was no need to also give Sophie a husband. I never write off a couple after one episode. If I could give Lauriver a chance I can definitely do the same here. Regardless of what happens with the relationship, I hope they'll write Sophie well. I don't want her to end up like Laurel or James from Supergirl. I think they can also have a good thing with the mom. She seems obsessed with image which should provide an interesting contrast to Mary's personality.
  10. Not bad. I am not a comic reader so the final twist did surprise me. Alice is shaping up to be an interesting villain and I love her overall look. I get that Kate trained a lot before coming back to Gotham City but I was a little taken aback by her ability to do all that on her first mission as Batwoman. Kate and Mary seem to have an interesting relationship. It's like Kate finds her stepsister both annoying and endearing. I hope they won't wait too long before they start fleshing out the supporting cast, Luke and Sophie especially. Giving Sophie a husband right off the bat and having her reject Kate in the flashbacks is not going to endear the audience to her. I think giving the character more to do and a rich POV can help fix those issues. Kate seems to really love her. The dad telling Kate that she's all he has left. Good to know that his wife and stepdaughter are nothing to him. Bruce/Batman and his guilt over not being able to save his aunt and little cousin seem to play an important part in the story which is strange considering that I don't think they'll ever really introduce the character.
  11. Starry

    Caitlin Snow

    Guns being the operative word. Are officers of the law allowed to throw lightning bolts at people? If Barry can throw lightning bolts at villains Frost can stab them with icicles. Same thing. Also, officers of the law can use their weapons when necessary. Joe fired his gun at Harry Wells the second he saw him in STAR Labs. Harry himself murdered Turtle. My problem with this conversation is that you are still coming up with examples from season 3. Since she's been a part of the team Frost hasn't killed anyone nor has she randomly stabbed innocent people. She only throws icicles at villains. She's using her personal weapon during fights like everyone else on Team Flash. Some of them fire guns, Barry throws lightning bolts, Ralph can turn his hands into knives which he uses to stab his opponent. They can do all this but Frost has to let the Cicadas or whatever villain she's helping fight have the upper hand because her weapon is somehow worse than a gun, a knife or a lightning bolt?? We are arguing different things. I agree that Frost shouldn't have been accepted into team Flash without a proper redemption arc. I agree that she's committed those felonies. My problem is with the moniker. Killing one person makes you a killer. Killing one person doesn't give you the right to name yourself Killer Something because for that moniker to make sense you have to kill on a consistent basis. Jack the Ripper didn't earn that moniker because he "ripped" only one person or committed a series of crimes that didn't involve ripping people to shreds. And if you think killing Black Flash is enough for Frost to earn the Killer Frost moniker, then why do we need a storyline about losing the "killer" part of her name? Once a killer always a killer, right? This storyline is 1) coming two seasons too late and 2) useless because she hasn't earned the Killer Frost moniker in the first place ( in my opinion ) or once a killer always a killer ( in your opinion ).
  12. It does. It doesn't mean you've earned the right to name yourself Killer Something. If I hear of a meta named Killer Frost I expect said meta to be lethal, menacing and kill on a regular basis. All Frost has done is kill someone who was already dead. Black Flash was a freaking zombie. Metas on these shows are more likely to use lethal force than not but the only one who pompously names herself Killer Something is the one who only managed to kill one meta. Monikers have to make sense. Barry is a CSI. Flash is not an officer of the law and has killed more than one person in season 2. Everyone on the team, Caitlin, Iris, any version of Wells, literally everyone shows up to fights with some sort of weapon. They can fire their weapons at their opponents but Frost can't stab them? I'd get this argument if she were stabbing innocent people but since she's been a part of the team she's only been violent during Team Flash fights. She shouldn't have been so easily accepted as a part of Team Flash but that's a different argument.
  13. She hasn't. In order for the "killer" part to make sense she has to actually kill people, not just be violent in the general sense or assist others while they do the killing. I never claimed that Frost is a better person than Barry or that she's a good person in general. That wasn't what I was arguing. I am personally not interested in a story where a character who hasn't killed anyone in two years loses the "killer" part of her name. This woman should have never been called Killer Frost in the first place. I think she's a lost cause no matter who's writing for her but hopefully you'll be satisfied with her storyline. How is Frost stabbing people any different than Barry throwing lightning at people or Joe shooting them?
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