S02.E18: The Wedding

[anna0852]

2 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

 Who in the hell tells someone not to get married an hour before they are getting married?

I did. with my best friend. I didn't tell her not to get married But I did tell her that if she changed her mind I would drive the getaway car no questions asked. I had concerns. She hadn't known the guy that long and he didn't seem to be doing very well in life and the primary reason they were getting married is because she was 4 months pregnant. Everything has since worked out, they are happily married And are in better career spaces and have two beautiful children. She's never held that against me. in fact, she told me a couple of years later That she was glad I was being practical about it.

[bichonblitz]

2 hours ago, ProudMary said:

Repeatedly, constantly.  Jack, Jack, Jack, JACK! 

Bring it on! I need a Jack in my life. As a husband, a father, brother, dead or alive, I don't care. I love him. 

[Blakeston]

I don't think there's any excuse for Shawna's actions.

In the previous episode, she realized she'd been a crappy parent. Good for her for realizing it.

If she decided she needed to work on herself for a while, and leave Deja with foster parents who are better equipped to raise her, I think that would be very understandable.

But instead, she used her realization as an excuse to bail. Now she could live the unencumbered life she'd wanted ever since Deja was born, and tell herself that she did the right thing.

But the actual right thing would have been to stay in Deja's life, maintaining the mother/daughter bond - even if she wasn't the one doing the daily heavy lifting of parenting. Choosing to terminate your parental rights was inevitably going to feel like a huge rejection to Deja, regardless of how Shawna framed it.

[wonderwoman]

"I don't like that they went from an entire episode about Deja and her mom to a quick bit of dialogue between Beth and Randall about how Deja's mother gave up her parental rights in court. What was the point of taking us through Deja's mother's experiences and having us sympathize with her if she was just going to take off."

don't know why the quote function is so tempermental... but, i agree. deja's mother giving up her parental rights is too big a fucking deal to be revealed in a single piece of exposition. to me it felt as though the revelation was to set up her attack on the car. but it was so compressed, jammed into an already overflowing episode. however, had they ended the deja episode with everyone in court the groundwork would have been laid for her violent reaction. 

[TwoGrayTabbies]

If Deja’s disturbance escalates to deadly violence, it would happen sooner than 20 years.  That, along with Beth’s absence, suggests Beth is the person Randall and Tess are nervously visiting.  Perhaps Beth is waking after 15 years in a coma caused by Deja’s violent assault?  Gah, that would really be a sucky turn for this show.

[Mystery]

2 hours ago, 3 is enough said:

And finally, poor Miguel.  He gets NO respect.  Seriously, Rebecca was not even 50 when Jack died.  Was she supposed to dress in black and mourn him for the rest of her life?  We know that they did not meet up again until at least 10 years after Jack died.  The Big Three had all left the nest by then.  Why wouldn't the kids want her to be happy and not lonely?  I don't get it.

Right? I actually thought that was going to be part of Kevin's speech, like "let's let go of Dad and recognize the man who's been there for Mom since then." 

I don't know what I could have been thinking! One of the Big Three being considerate and thinking of someone else?

[Blackie]

18 hours ago, RogerDodger said:

18 hours ago, Empress1 said:

was thinking it was Deja. Maybe a callback to Beth and Randall's first worst-case scenario where he worried that she wouldn't turn her attitude around and end up in jail.

Maybe Deja murders Beth in her sleep (or not in her sleep).  That might be too dark even for this show.  

Well I was going EVEN darker...Deja murders Beth and Annie.......we lonely see future Tess.  Really not sure if the show would go there or not either

[kili]

Quote

Well I was going EVEN darker...Deja murders Beth and Annie.......we lonely see future Tess.

This like we are all playing Randall's "What's the Worse that Can Happen" game. We'll be playing it all summer.

Maybe it's not so bad. Maybe they are all just visiting the "My Lady" from William's poem and they are all sick and tired of staring at that raggedy-old poster, but Randall is a slave to traditions. They'll all stare at the poster, write a poem, complain to the super and find and ugly cat to adopt. It's how they celebrate National Poetry Day. The next day, they have to make 250 gift bags to celebrate Kate and Toby's anniversary. 

[Blackie]

3 hours ago, Snewtsie said:

Since the flash forwards of Randall & Tess are just of them, I have a hunch Deja may be in prison for killing Beth & Annie (accidentally? fit of rage?).  But that might be too easy of an answer, and I would guess there will be a twist.  But I am afraid two of them are dead and the third is responsible.

yes the twist could be that Annie kills Deja and Beth  ETA: that would be a big twist since the little girl who plays Annie is the cutes. sweetest little girl who would be unimaginable as a future murderer

Edited March 14, 2018 by Blackie
eta

[Snewtsie]

10 minutes ago, Blackie said:

yes the twist could be that Annie kills Deja and Beth  ETA: that would be a big twist since the little girl who plays Annie is the cutes. sweetest little girl who would be unimaginable as a future murderer

LOLOLOLOL.  That kid can kill with her sheer cuteness.

[Enigma X]

Could the "she" be Beth,  but she left Randall? I admit it sounds more sinister than that.

[Calamity Jane]

I have forgotten - how old is Rebecca supposed to be in current times?  If she also was 36 when the children were born, then she's 73 now, which would make her 93 in a 20-year flash forward.  That's pretty old, so it wouldn't be unlikely if she had already passed away.   Anyway, it doesn't seem probable that Rebecca is the reference when Randall talks of going to see "her."  My mind went to it being Deja in prison; my daughter thought they were talking about Beth.  With the evidence we have, clearly many different guesses can be made, but they're just guesses. It's a long time until we find out more! 

[debraran]

2 hours ago, Blakeston said:

I don't think there's any excuse for Shawna's actions.

In the previous episode, she realized she'd been a crappy parent. Good for her for realizing it.

If she decided she needed to work on herself for a while, and leave Deja with foster parents who are better equipped to raise her, I think that would be very understandable.

But instead, she used her realization as an excuse to bail. Now she could live the unencumbered life she'd wanted ever since Deja was born, and tell herself that she did the right thing.

But the actual right thing would have been to stay in Deja's life, maintaining the mother/daughter bond - even if she wasn't the one doing the daily heavy lifting of parenting. Choosing to terminate your parental rights was inevitably going to feel like a huge rejection to Deja, regardless of how Shawna framed it.

I think the writing there paled. To have her beg to get her daughter back, fall on bad times, not get help for apartment or utilities, etc.  is lame.  Her daughter loves her Mom, she goes to court and terminates rights? Was Deja there? Did they talk to her, get her therapy? This is too pat and should never have been a line before the wedding.

Randall and Beth might be nice to her, but they aren't family and having a mom in jail for something she did or didn't do is one thing, having a mom that says, "Here, take her, I can't do it" as a teen, I can't imagine what would go through your head.

[WednesdayAddams]

4 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

OMG yes. When the Big 3 headed for their respective rides back to the cabin after Kate 'let go' of Jack's ashes, I was 3000% sure there was going to be an accident. Then the next scene they are all back and getting ready and I thought, okay, then something is going to happen during the ceremony. Conditioned much? Heh. I was v happy to be wrong though.

I kept thinking before this episode that Rebecca was going to have a stroke and that's why she was seeing Jack. This show ruined me. No one can have nice things.

[possibilities]

8 hours ago, GSMHvisitor said:

The actress was in the credits, because she got promoted to series regular starting with s2. But then she got pregnant and thus barely appeared in any episodes. I guess TPTB decided then to drop Kevin/Sophie for good.

 

We could still see flashbacks to their marriage in their 20s. That whole decade has been largely unexplored.

When Zoe said she'd been dropped off at Beth's home when she was 7 or 8, it threw me out of the scene because for sure she'd know how old she was, not make it an estimate.

 

19 hours ago, anna0852 said:

 Is anyone looking forward to Beth reaction when she finds out that Kevin is interested in her cousin?

I look forward to everything Beth does. I don't really get why everyone thinks Jack is dreamy; for me, Beth is my ideal human.

 

19 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

a little cheesy,

Everything about this show is cheesy. They could re-name it "This is Cheese."

19 hours ago, WednesdayAddams said:

Could future Kevin be adopting from Vietnam, and was just looking at the photo? This show likes its twists.

I would love that.

19 hours ago, SnoGirl said:

I really liked it.  Liked that Kate finally let go of Jack a bit.  And I liked that both Kevin and Randall admitted they put themselves before Kate for awhile now.  I liked that they tried their best to make her wedding day special.

Loved Worst Case Scenario.  I loved the tics that Beth and Randall have with their marriage.  And I loved in the moment, Randall opened up to Kevin and got him to play the game too.  A couple of my friends texted me and asked "so, worse case scenario.  Sounds just like you," LOL.  I'm such a Randall.

I'm concerned about Deja.  I hope they get her into therapy.  I really thought we weren't going to get the angry foster kid story, so I hope they steer clear of the stereotypes with this story.

 

I think Deja is not only letting off her frustration, but also testing whether she will be sent away. She didn't do anything wrong and she views it as Shauna dumped her. I think if Beth and Randall dump her, she wants to have it happen sooner than later. But I do hope they handle it well and continue to steer away from stereotypes and TV tropes, as well.

I love the Worst Case Scenario Game. I wish I had someone to play it with me because it really does work better if you do it in pairs.

19 hours ago, bettername2come said:

I'm worried for future Annie! They're trying to trick us! 

 

That was my fear, too! Honestly, there's no one I want to see it be. I don't want non-stop tragedy.

I thought Randall looked way too old for 10 years OR 20 years in the future. I thought he looked older than William looked. I thought he looked older than imaginary future Jack. At least in his 70s. I know that isn't what the show told us, but it was really confusing.

 

 

17 hours ago, Amethyst said:

On a lighter note, I loved seeing Kevin and Randall actually hanging out and being brothers.  All while trying to help their sister have the day of her dreams.  Between this and the repairing scenes in the apartment tenement, it was nice to see them having fun together.  Hope for more of this next season.

I like the happy siblings scenes, too. I don't need to see them stressed out, fighting, and miserable all the time, or even most of the time. They'd all be as depressed as Toby if their lives were as large a % tragic as the show makes it seem.

13 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

And I think she needs to know that when you destroy the property of the family that has taken you in and been nothing but nice to you, you are taken away and placed elsewhere. Am I being too harsh?

There have been instances where good hearted people adopted children who really showed signs of severe disorders... (I recall a child adopted from Russia who was returned to Russia because he was very destructive to the home and displayed severe bizarre behavior that the parents were unable to fix and they were afraid to live in their own home with him). 

There are limits that a couple has to have and they have to realize that some issues that children have cannot be fixed by a loving and understanding home environment. I think they should cut Deja loose after she took a bat to their car. It's a bad sign. She is a loose cannon and has severe issues. She needs a group home situation where she can receive 24/7 psychological attention. If they keep Deja around, they are putting their own daughters at risk. 

Wow. I'm not saying that what happened isn't serious. But if every parent threw away their child after one serious outburst, there would be a lot more kids thrown away, and not all of them would be foster or adopted kids. I have a hard time believing any parent would react the way you describe to a single incident like this. If they do, God help us. Life's not always easy. We don't know what is coming, but giving up on Deja at this juncture strikes me as extremely premature. They need a serious response, but I think dumping her would only make things worse.

8 hours ago, Mrs. DuRona said:

Am I the only one who thought Rebecca was going to give Kate her necklace?  A way to honor Jack but still move on?  It would have been a nice moment for both of them.

I kept waiting for Kate to ask for it, but I was OK with how things turned out. In a way, if she had asked for it, it would have continued the "I want to be my mom/marry my dad" theme, so even though I expected it at first, I was glad they found a different resolution.

7 hours ago, Katy M said:

Why would that be a hardship to go see her?  Whoever it is, I don't think they (or just Tess?) was avoiding her because of health issues.

There are lots of people who have trouble facing illness, death, injury, etc. I have decided not to guess what's going on because they left it too wide open. But I have seen people be very reluctant to visit sick or dying people enough times that I think it's plausible, even if I don't really have a theory about whether that's the story they will wind up telling here.

RE Shauna and her motives: I thought it was a mix of things. I think she believes it's best for Deja. I also think she is tired of the pressure to be better and swim upstream against obstacles (even if she was less dysfunctional, it's still a struggle to be a single mom with few resources), and to choose between the part of her that loves Deja and the part of her that is still a child herself and wants to be free. I think she has very low self-esteem, which is why she doesn't think she can get her act together and why she throws herself down the drain over boyfriends. In many ways, she has been shown to be better than she was when G.G. first died, but worse than she was earlier in Deja's life. I think that, just like Deja told Randall in the previous episode that she's tired, Shauna was also tired. It wasn't just one thing, it was all of it.

I had hoped she would stay involved in Deja's life, but maybe it's also too painful for her. She feels guilty and worthless for giving up (and probably also envious of Deja and Beth/Randall) so convinces herself that it's in the best interests of Deja to stay away. 

I'm not defending her. Just trying to say what I think her point of view might be.

This show drops too many stories. It leaves me wanting more in some areas and less in others.

[SimoneS]

Good finale. First off, Toby's parents and I are clearly engaged in a Vulcan Mind Meld. Almost from day one, I have thought that Kate's emotional baggage and demanding behavior was over the top and that he was a saint to put up with her. I even speculated that maybe something was off with him to put up with her. Nailed it! Toby said that he was a bad place after his first wife cheated on him, but he never said that he suffered from depression. Kudos to his parents for speaking up although it was too late. Honestly, I think that Kate is way too self-involved to be married to someone who suffers from a mental illness. She can barely see beyond her issues in any given moment although I give her credit for a moment of self-awareness with Rebecca before the wedding. Of course, she took a step back walking up the aisle with Jack's screwdriver. In contrast, Beth is far more emotionally stable which allows her to cope with Randall's mental illness. Kate looked lovely in that dress. Kudos to wardrobe for making her look good and not frumpy. 

Deja's story is tough which is why I am loving it. Too often shows like to soft soap these foster kid stories. Deja's fury at her mother's abandonment and resentment towards Randall and Beth is realistic making it difficult to watch. I think that Adult Tess and Randall were referring to Deja. I wouldn't be surprised if she was in prison or rehab, but hell, I hope that I am wrong.

Randall and Kevin playing the worse scenario game went from funny to heartbreaking fast.

Kevin continues to be the weak link, IMO, but his relationship with Zoe has promise. She feels like the stabilizing force that he needs in life. Maybe they were going to Vietnam to find out what happened to Jack's brother, maybe they have Vietnamese relatives there now.

I loved Miguel reassuring Rebecca that no one was more unwanted at the wedding. He is another saint putting up with Randall, Kevin, and Kate's resentment. Miguel lost Jack too. They should not begrudge Rebecca and Miguel their happiness. Grow the hell up! 

Edited March 15, 2018 by SimoneS

[dlyn]

I never watched Lost so I haven’t seen Flash Forwards play out on TV before, but it seems really risky on the part of the show. What if something, god forbid, happens to one of the actors? Like John Ritter? Or maybe SKB just takes his buckets of awards and decides to go full steam into movies. They’ve already told us what what the future holds. It seems like they’re painting themselves into a corner. 

[Clanstarling]

8 hours ago, ZeroDiscipline said:

That sure looked like Toby was suffering from severe depression, not "going to die" kind of sick. So the tables have turned, and now Kate has to be strong for Toby. That is how marriage works. But a total bummer to see that this is her future, when we are still on her happy wedding day. I didn't like that.

Yes, it was sad, particularly that it is so soon. But then if any of us flashed forward (on our wedding day) to one of the "for worse" days in our future, we might never get married.

7 hours ago, DearEvette said:

I liked this episode.  The only thing I could have lived without were false 'memories' of Jack and Rebecca's vow renewal.  I get it that Kate is a Daddy's girl and would be thinking of Jack on this day, but it would have felt more organic if she had fantasized about him giving her away and him being there on her day.  Although I will admit, the scene of Jack dancing with Tess and Annie kinda got me.

I didn't like it much either. I had a (faint and stupid) hope that we were seeing Rebecca and Miguel's wedding - though Rebecca was made up too old for that.

6 hours ago, biakbiak said:

I really want a Miguel focused ep.

Me too. He's a rock, who is willing to be second best, and disrespected. And yet seems to have no grudge, only love for the extended family.

 

5 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I would love to see a dementia story because I'm going through it with my mother and it's really tough, like you said.  But we're talking Beth, right, not Rebecca?  57 is super young for dementia, unless they make it the result of a stroke that was just a freak thing. 

I'm sorry you're going through that. It's been four years since I dealt with it, and I am only now willing to think about watching dementia stories (the new Donald Sutherland movie). I avoided them all like the plague for the years I was dealing with my father.

4 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I went to college with a woman whose mother told her, on her wedding day that if she really didn't want to do it, it was okay.  That was because her mom was worried she was getting married because she didn't want to disappoint people, who'd been waiting for the wedding for years.

Boy, I wish my parents had done that when I was getting ready to marry my first husband (pretty much because I didn't want to make a fuss and cancel everything). Turned out, once I left him, they told me they never liked him, never thought he was good for me. Never said a word, even though most of my life before (and after) they had opinions about every damn thing.

11 minutes ago, possibilities said:

When Zoe said she'd been dropped off at Beth's home when she was 7 or 8, it threw me out of the scene because for sure she'd know how old she was, not make it an estimate.

I guess we are all different on how we mark time. I have to calculate how old I was for any given event (even big traumatic ones, and I've had a few) - but I always remember what grade I was in.

[bichonblitz]

I'm surprised Randall's girls weren't the ones bashing in car windows. They have been put through a lot having Deja and her attitude thrust upon them and now the parents are going to adopt Deja? That's a lot for those kids to deal with.

[ShadowFacts]

32 minutes ago, possibilities said:

Wow. I'm not saying that what happened isn't serious. But if every parent threw away their child after one serious outburst, there would be a lot more kids thrown away, and not all of them would be foster or adopted kids. I have a hard time believing any parent would react the way you describe to a single incident like this. If they do, God help us. Life's not always easy. We don't know what is coming, but giving up on Deja at this juncture strikes me as extremely premature. They need a serious response, but I think dumping her would only make things worse.

I second this.  Kids aren't throwaways.  Deja essentially feels like she is, though, hence the anger.  She has been let down by adults.  She has been well-behaved, minus shoplifting at Raven's encouragement.  To decide not to adopt based on one jarring incident, no.  Deal with it swiftly and follow-up with whatever is necessary.  It was Beth who steered Randall toward an older child, and it turns out Beth has some experience with an abandoned cousin, so they should not be shocked that there will be rocky times.  In fact, I would be surprised if a child who was given up by their parent they have been with and loved and been loved by for 12 years didn't have significant problems.  It's not something you just shake off because you are in a cushy environment now.  It must feel like you are nothing, worthless, don't matter, and who is equipped to deal with that alone, at any age? 

[J-Man]

I didn't notice Miguel in the dream/vow renewal scenes. Since he was Jack's best friend, wouldn't he have been there? But then I guess since it was Kate's dream, she might've unconsciously omitted him.

Has it ever been established where Toby's parents live? Or whether or not they'd met Kate prior to the wedding?

I have to admit that when they first mentioned that Kevin was going to Vietnam (and before they showed the picture of Nicky), I thought he might be going there for a movie (either for his expanded part in the Ron Howard one or a future endeavor.)

[MelGoLightly]

Did anyone else during the what-could-have-been sequence where we first see Jack as an older man and realize they're renewing vows think "GEORGE and you f'ing CROCK POT, you ruin EVERYTHING.

Asking for a friend.

[Mystery]

1 hour ago, dlyn said:

I never watched Lost so I haven’t seen Flash Forwards play out on TV before, but it seems really risky on the part of the show. What if something, god forbid, happens to one of the actors? Like John Ritter? Or maybe SKB just takes his buckets of awards and decides to go full steam into movies. They’ve already told us what what the future holds. It seems like they’re painting themselves into a corner. 

This is just what I was thinking. 

[JudyObscure]

1 hour ago, debraran said:

I think the writing there paled. To have her beg to get her daughter back, fall on bad times, not get help for apartment or utilities, etc.  is lame.  Her daughter loves her Mom, she goes to court and terminates rights? Was Deja there? Did they talk to her, get her therapy? This is too pat and should never have been a line before the wedding.

Randall and Beth might be nice to her, but they aren't family and having a mom in jail for something she did or didn't do is one thing, having a mom that says, "Here, take her, I can't do it" as a teen, I can't imagine what would go through your head.

  I don't know, I think we're being a little too hard on Deja's mother.  She has tried and failed over and over, she has lost confidence in herself as a mother and feels like Randall and Beth will give Deja a better life than she  can.  I just think her self-esteem has been so beaten down that it's hard for her to realize that her presence and her love mean more to Deja than all the material things and security that the Pearsons offer.

54 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

Boy, I wish my parents had done that when I was getting ready to marry my first husband (pretty much because I didn't want to make a fuss and cancel everything).

Me, too.  I think a lot of people have second thoughts during all the stress that lead up to the big day.  Sometimes it's just stage fright but other times it's a series of red flags that should be heeded, and that's when it's good to have someone remind us that it's not too late to call it off.

[Dejana]

1 hour ago, Calamity Jane said:

I have forgotten - how old is Rebecca supposed to be in current times?  If she also was 36 when the children were born, then she's 73 now, which would make her 93 in a 20-year flash forward.  That's pretty old, so it wouldn't be unlikely if she had already passed away.   Anyway, it doesn't seem probable that Rebecca is the reference when Randall talks of going to see "her."  My mind went to it being Deja in prison; my daughter thought they were talking about Beth.  With the evidence we have, clearly many different guesses can be made, but they're just guesses. It's a long time until we find out more! 

Rebecca is younger than Jack. The Big Three were born on his 36th birthday and I think Rebecca was 30. She'd be 67 now and 87 in 20 years, so still old if not quite nonagenarian.

Was I just thrown by finally seeing Old Jack, or was his ageing makep better than usual for this show?

[AriAu]

Quote

Randall and Kevin playing the worse scenario game went from funny to heartbreaking fast.

Best line was Randall to Kevin-"You're good at this game". Actually laughed out loud.

I think the flashforward is Beth in nursing home with Alzheimers or something similar. There is just no way they could heap that much misery onto the Pearsons to have Deja kill Beth or Annie. Seriously, the level of misery is almost unbearable!

[possibilities]

8 minutes ago, Dejana said:

Was I just thrown by finally seeing Old Jack, or was his ageing makep better than usual for this show?

I thought so, too. It looked more natural than what they do with Miguel or Rebecca.

[qtpye]

21 hours ago, mtlchick said:

I see that Wendie Malick and Dan Lauia were called in to play this episode's "Hey!  I know these actors and they're playing a mom and dad!" 

"This room's full of a whole lot of damn."  Oh Sterling "Kathleen."  You're totes adorbs. 

My sister's one comment: "Why is (Deja) Lemonading?"  I was hoping Future Randall was going to drop a hint in the final seconds.

See you in the fall! 

 

21 hours ago, aw86 said:

Kate was way too old to be asking Jack to marry her

 

21 hours ago, Armchair Critic said:

I agree. I liked what Jack said to her but even though Kate idolized Jack she would be old enough to know you can't marry your dad.

I figured depression too

Yeah, it was really strange for me, because it is something a toddler would say, not a girl that age. I am also sick of the way Jack tells young Kate she is the most special greatest most awesome person on earth.  What exactly has she done to earn so much praise? It's one thing to love your daughter to pieces ( I know I love mine), but it is almost like he puts Kate up on a pedestal and enjoys worshipping her. It's a little weird, even for a daddy's girl.

I am glad that Kate admitted to her mother that her issue, was that she always wanted to be her, but did not feel like she could live up. I hope Kate has the confidence to stop comparing herself to other woman and enjoy her life, going forward.

One thing hasn't Kate repeated said she hates to be called Bug?  Why does Rebecca all her grown daughter a name she hates?

21 hours ago, RogerDodger said:

I think the flash forward with Randall/Tess was referring to Beth and they were talking about visiting a grave.

I don't think even a well adjusted teenage girl would enjoy being told she looks like Randall.

I guess Sophie's gone for good.  I don't know how the actress got her name in the opening credits considering how few episodes she was in. I do like Beth's cousin.

I'm trying to figure out what balsamic lavender ice cream would taste like.

 

21 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I totally cried. I have had a terrible day. I was already feeling depressed (got some bad news today and am also prepping for a funeral this weekend) and in my feelings. But there were so many little sweet moments in the episode that made me tear up. I loved how Kevin and Randall were working so hard to be good brothers. (I should show my brother - who actually is awesome - this episode.)

There were also funny moments, like "room full of damn" and both worst-case scenario games.

I was thinking it was Deja. Maybe a callback to Beth and Randall's first worst-case scenario where he worried that she wouldn't turn her attitude around and end up in jail. I know a couple who adopted a kid out of foster care when the kid was a teen, and let's just say the kid did not take advantage of the opportunities he got. He did end up in jail, for burglary.

I mean, to her, her mother abandoned her. She's been fighting hard to get back to her mother and her mother just gave up. I'm sure that's how it feels to her. I was pretty surprised that Shauna would terminate her rights. She has the right to be upset. I don't blame her for being angry. My mother would have said "You have the right to be upset. You do not have the right to be rude." But I can see Beth and Randall feeling like the situation was already really precarious and not wanting to come down hard on her.

Why? I look like my dad. My dad looks like his mom (sometimes people skip my dad and say I look like my grandmother, which is also true). Sterling K. Brown is FINE.

Agreed. Ten is old enough to know how marriage works. My best friend's daughter used to tell me she wanted to marry me when she was about three, and we would pretend-plan our wedding. "What kind of cake should we have? Will there be lots of music?" We thought it was funny and I thought it was really sweet, because to her marriage just meant a party with someone you love, so hey, why not marry Auntie Empress1? But Kate was too old for that.

 

21 hours ago, RogerDodger said:

Brown's a good looking guy, no doubt.  Its just that most of the teenage girls I know are so image conscious that I don't think they would appreciate being compared to a middle aged man.  I could see saying it to a son.

Maybe Deja murders Beth in her sleep (or not in her sleep).  That might be too dark even for this show.  

 

18 hours ago, doLLish said:

Your sister is my new favorite person. I laughed SO hard at this lol

Deja has ruined the entire dynamic of Randall's family, a family that pretty much everyone loved, and I'm so over it. Her storyline is a dark cloud hanging over the show and its really enough. I thought last week's all Deja episode was beautiful. Lyric Ross is a great actress. But this character just does not fit. Its a complete force and I don't know how they're going to get rid of her but they just have to. The way the storyline ended originally was perfect. And if anything happens to Beth I will revolt. 

Zoe and Kevin are cute. I liked Zoe a lot and look forward to her expanded role in season 3.

 

15 hours ago, Lily H said:

I'm sure this will be an unpopular opinion, but I can't stand Kate and I can't stand Deja. Adult Kate is selfish beyond belief, and younger Kate had a creepy and inappropriate relationship with her father (which Saint Jack encouraged to her detriment). All he ever seemed to be doing with her was stuffing her with cake and ice cream and constantly telling her that she was the greatest, most perfectly wonderful, awesomest creature on Earth. No wonder she's on a permanent ego trip.  Deja should have to work to repay the cost of that windshield and then find another place to live.

 

14 hours ago, debraran said:

Toby's parents are Catholic (or his Mom) and you can get divorced and still be in good standing, it's the getting married again and needing an annulment that puts a wrench in some relationships. Not as big of a deal now but another step.

I was really taken back last show when Randall and Beth just had Deja's mom leave without protest and now we hear they had a court hearing. Well they got what they wanted, they didn't want Mom around before and now, without any real thought to how devastating that would be, are making up horrible scenarios about her. (not as funny to me as it was supposed to be)  Deja regressed, she was happy with them before, happy at school, happy to be there for a night and now she's depressed and feels abandoned. To have your mom in jail is one thing, to have her give you up, is another. Is she getting help? That lady was rude at the wedding, Deja wasn't pretty in the same way as her sisters and I think she took it wrong and he isn't her father. What she did was awful and i don't like TIU making the "foster girl" the bad one, but hopefully it will get better.  Beth and Randall wanting her to be happy and wishing they had the "old girl" back is fine, but this is what real life is like, it's not a band aid.  I hope she is made to repay the windshield and whatever punishment there is but she probably wont be able to explain to them why for a while.

 

5 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I went to college with a woman whose mother told her, on her wedding day that if she really didn't want to do it, it was okay.  That was because her mom was worried she was getting married because she didn't want to disappoint people, who'd been waiting for the wedding for years.

I'm sick and tired of Deja and her fucked up attitude.  Let her go back to her mom, let her be homeless for a few weeks, while her mother uses Deja's savings to bail out loser boyfriend #48849849.  She doesn't fucking know how good she has it.  

The last part maybe an unpopular opinion, but it's my two cents.  To me, Deja is sucking the life out of this show.

My mother was a beauty and my father was...smart. I look a lot like my father. My girl cousins and I have a joke that saying a girl looks like her father (no matter how hot the father is, because Randall is a room full of "damn" all on his own) was always a way to throw shade at a girl's looks. "You look like your father" just was code for "You're not as pretty as your mother and it is disappointing". Alexa Ray Joel (who is striking) had issues all her life, because her father was Billy Joel and mother was Christy Brinkley and she was the spitting image of Billy Joel. I don't even have to mention Blue Ivy.

I think it set Deja off, because she does not look like Randall and her real father is not in her life and her mother gave her up pretty easily.

That being said, she really needs to be held accountable for her behavior.  She needs therapy, but Randall and Beth should not have let it get to this point. She is behaving very badly and they are just coddling her more.  They would not do this with Anne or Tess and Deja knows this...it is further proof that she is not one of them.

[Cajungirl64]

8 hours ago, Bluedog100 said:

Thank you, ProudMary!  That was the only AI I ever watched because I fell in love with Elliot.  And Simon was so OVER Chicken Little by the third Top Ten show.

Back to This is Us....loved Kevin's "they wouldn't know an Amuse Bouche if it bit them in the ass!"

OMG.. I know this is totally OT, but you started it...LOL. When you mentioned you "fell in love with Elliott," are you talking about Elliott Yamin?? He's my ALL-TIME favorite! 

[GodsBeloved]

13 minutes ago, qtpye said:

That being said, she really needs to be held accountable for her behavior.  She needs therapy, but Randall and Beth should not have let it get to this point. She is behaving very badly and they are just coddling her more.  They would not do this with Anne or Tess and Deja knows this...it is further proof that she is not one of them.

They would not do what with Anne and Tess? Coddle them?

If I'm not mistaken, we never saw or heard of any punishment for Tess when she hid in Kevin's car. We saw Randall and Beth making sure she was Ok but that's it as far as I remember so I'm not so sure that IF Randall and Bess "coddle" Deja it's something they wouldn't do with Tess and Anne.

57 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I second this.  Kids aren't throwaways.  Deja essentially feels like she is, though, hence the anger.  She has been let down by adults.  She has been well-behaved, minus shoplifting at Raven's encouragement.  To decide not to adopt based on one jarring incident, no.  Deal with it swiftly and follow-up with whatever is necessary.  It was Beth who steered Randall toward an older child, and it turns out Beth has some experience with an abandoned cousin, so they should not be shocked that there will be rocky times.  In fact, I would be surprised if a child who was given up by their parent they have been with and loved and been loved by for 12 years didn't have significant problems.  It's not something you just shake off because you are in a cushy environment now.  It must feel like you are nothing, worthless, don't matter, and who is equipped to deal with that alone, at any age? 

I second, second this.

Randall and Beth "throwing" Deja back reflects poorly on them. All their talk about wanting to give her a stable home goes out the window if they are ready to have her uprooted once again. I think it would also highlight just how much (or not so much) thought they put into this. It's not just them but there is Tess and Anne too and now with Deja acting out violently, they have the "she may hurt the kids" excuse ... and that is one huge reason why they should have really thought what it meant to take in a foster child when they have little ones in the home.

[ThisIsMe]

22 hours ago, Conotocarious said:

I wonder if Toby was sick physically or perhaps mentally? His parents talk with him seemed to a foreshadowing of major depression issues.

At first I thought maybe he's going to die of cancer or something ... but I think you're right, that's it's probably something mental/emotional.  Because now I'm remembering the expression on his face while he's laying in bed ... he has this really empty, scared expression.  Not good.  

But if that's the direction they're taking the story with Toby, at least it will "shine a light" on mental health issues, severe depression, etc.

As for the scene with Randall and Tess at the end with Randall saying it's time to go see her, and Tess not being ready ... wow ... I still don't know what to make of that.  Where are Beth and Annie?  I think it's a huge stretch (even for this show) to think that Deja murdered both of them.  Even Randall might stop pursuing Deja's affection if that happened.

[3 is enough]

While I admit that I am not a fan of the whole Deja storyline, I sincerely doubt Randall and Beth would just throw her away.  That would be totally out of character.

[methodwriter85]

34 minutes ago, ThisIsMe said:

 

But if that's the direction they're taking the story with Toby, at least it will "shine a light" on mental health issues, severe depression, etc.

One thing I've noticed about life is that people who try really hard to seem like they're funny and bright and the life of a room tend to have some really deep, dark thoughts. It's pretty much an act. I don't think it's a coincidence that a lot of famous comedians (Robin Williams, Chris Farley, Freddie Prinze Sr., etc etc) had really deep, dark issues. It actually makes a lot of sense for Toby to have hid his depressive episodes from Kate.

[Bluedog100]

Cajungirl64....mine too!! He had me with "There I Go ".  I didn't know if I wanted to adopt him or have his baby!

[LoveLeigh]

5 hours ago, possibilities said:

Wow. I'm not saying that what happened isn't serious. But if every parent threw away their child after one serious outburst, there would be a lot more kids thrown away, and not all of them would be foster or adopted kids. I have a hard time believing any parent would react the way you describe to a single incident like this. If they do, God help us. Life's not always easy. We don't know what is coming, but giving up on Deja at this juncture strikes me as extremely premature. They need a serious response, but I think dumping her would only make things worse.

 

It was not just one serious outburst, it was a foreshadowing and she has displayed bizarre behavior before. Why else would Randall and Beth have expressed fear that she would kill them? That thought did not come from fantasyland. It was based on her prior behavior. They have two other daughters to protect and Deja is severely damaged and she is impacting this family in horrific ways. 

That "single incident" was criminal activity: vandalism to their own property. "Dumping her" might be the best thing for her (so she could get the proper help) and for their own family. 

I am sure in this show the Deja storyline will have some happy ending with Randall and Beth saving her and Deja going on to college and making something of herself. But, that scenario will be scripted by the writers and I believe in real life it would not turn out that way. 

Edited March 15, 2018 by DakotaLavender

[Nanners]

I hate everything Deja related.  And I’d love to see a good plot about children “in the system”.  But I feel like this show is too sentimental to handle such a complex issue with any depth.  Deja feels like a caricature, she has no personality to me, just three modes: sullen, scared and apprehensive.  I don’t see any chemistry with her and Randall’s family.  When Beth told Kate that she fell in love with a little girl, it seemed so disingenuous to me.  I’d believe it if she was like the girl from the first foster family, there was some life to her.  And ugh, now they have her for good? What has to happen to make her disappear?  

I liked Kevin’s worst case scenario best, with he and Kate being those weird twins who get mistaken as spouses.  ?

Edited March 15, 2018 by Nanners

[Superpole2000]

I despise dream sequences on TV shows. Hey Character X, it's a dream, get over it. No one cares about your dreams because they are not real!

The world has not been kind to Deja, but she has fallen into a potentially okay situation and is actively sabotaging it. That's aggravating to watch. I have no idea if it is realistic, but it is certainly aggravating. I don't think it's "good" TV drama.

I love it when wedding speeches mention parental deaths (/sarcasm)! I find it so incredibly uncomfortable when people do this at real life weddings.

Beth/Randall's worst case scenario game seemed mean. "Hahaha, our foster child might kill us, hahaha, she sucks!" Come on guys, maybe don't joke about how awful she is. But yeah, she's awful.

[qtpye]

42 minutes ago, Nanners said:

I hate everything Deja related.  And I’d love to see a good plot about children “in the system”.  But I feel like this show is too sentimental to handle such a complex issue with any depth.  Deja feels like a caricature, she has no personality to me, just three modes: sullen, scared and apprehensive.  I don’t see any chemistry with her and Randall’s family.  When Beth told Kate that she fell in love with a little girl, it seemed so disingenuous to me.  I’d believe it if she was like the girl from the first foster family, there was some life to her.  And ugh, now they have her for good? What has to happen to make her disappear?  

I liked Kevin’s worst case scenario best, with he and Kate being those weird twins who get mistaken as spouses.  ?

 

4 minutes ago, Superpole2000 said:

I despise dream sequences on TV shows. Hey Character X, it's a dream, get over it. No one cares about your dreams because they are not real!

The world has not been kind to Deja, but she has fallen into a potentially okay situation and is actively sabotaging it. That's aggravating to watch. I have no idea if it is realistic, but it is certainly aggravating. I don't think it's "good" TV drama.

I love it when wedding speeches mention parental deaths (/sarcasm)! I find it so incredibly uncomfortable when people do this at real life weddings.

Beth/Randall's worst case scenario game seemed mean. "Hahaha, our foster child might kill us, hahaha, she sucks!" Come on guys, maybe don't joke about how awful she is. But yeah, she's awful.

I loved the girl from the other home. She lit up the screen and was so smart and perceptive. I really hope she finds a good home. Yeah when Tess snuck out of the house because seh missed Deja so much, I was like really?
 

Quote

 

They would not do what with Anne and Tess? Coddle them?

If I'm not mistaken, we never saw or heard of any punishment for Tess when she hid in Kevin's car. We saw Randall and Beth making sure she was Ok but that's it as far as I remember so I'm not so sure that IF Randall and Bess "coddle" Deja it's something they wouldn't do with Tess and Anne.

 

Just because we did not see any punishment does not mean it did not happen. Also, these girls have been through a lot with their father bringing in people they get close too and then are taken away from them fairly abruptly.

And yes, if Tess or Ann starting mouthing off the way Deja was (calling the cabin a dump) you best believe Miss. Beth is not having it. You do not get two little girls that sweet and well behaved by accident. Randall has a loving household, but there are definitely lines of discipline that are not crossed.

Of course, Deja is older and has had a harder life, so it might be an apples to oranges comparison in the first place.

[Brookside]

1 hour ago, Superpole2000 said:

I despise dream sequences on TV shows. Hey Character X, it's a dream, get over it. No one cares about your dreams because they are not real!

 

I despise them in novels too - I always skip over them.  Guess Freud wouldn't have had much time for me.

[possibilities]

Kate's dream gave her the insight that she needed to let go of Jack, though. And that was a much needed bit of growth for her.

[debraran]

I thought Kate's dream would make more sense if she was dreaming of her dad at her wedding, walking her down the aisle, looking at her, not renewing vows with her Mom. I'm glad Miguel didn't hear that, his patience is immense but please.  It's been 20 years. My dad has been gone that long, I miss him and wish he could be at my son's wedding, see my kids graduate and I picture him watching, etc. but this attachment seems beyond the pale. TIU even made Kate's wedding about Jack.  If it happened the day or week before, her letting go, it would make more sense, the rushed scenes of her spreading ashes, trying to get ice cream, etc. seemed too rushed, but hopefully better received by others. I would have liked a healthy "Toby/Kate" centered episode just about them.

Re his parents talking to him before, a little late, but my Mom did that with my sister, before and the night before. She just knew at 19, (he was 28) she was too young and couldn't see his immaturity, and she was right, they divorced sadly in 5 years. I thought it was nice though she told her, "Don't think about the cost, the receptions, dress, nothing, I will gladly trade the cost for your being happy and never bring it up again". Well to fair, my Italian mom probably would have brought it up again, but not the cost, hard as it was to save, she just wanted my sister to be happy and not pressured and to see the dynamics of the relationship clearly.  Toby's parents probably saw the dynamic with Kate but hopefully would have brought that up much earlier.

[kissedbyarose]

Let me start off with the bad: Ka-Toby? Cringe. I have strong hatred for mashup names and I especially hate when they are used in show because who refers to themselves like that?

The wedding speech - which was not at all about the couple and definitely should've been something that was done maybe at the car? Or literally any other time during the episode. I didn't hate the speech I just hated it as a wedding speech. 

I said it in the last episode thread but I'll repeat it again on any other show (or maybe it's own show) I wouldn't mind Deja but I hate this storyline here. Hate. For this exact reason:

6 hours ago, Nanners said:

I hate everything Deja related.  And I’d love to see a good plot about children “in the system”.  But I feel like this show is too sentimental to handle such a complex issue with any depth.  Deja feels like a caricature, she has no personality to me, just three modes: sullen, scared and apprehensive.  I don’t see any chemistry with her and Randall’s family.  When Beth told Kate that she fell in love with a little girl, it seemed so disingenuous to me.  I’d believe it if she was like the girl from the first foster family, there was some life to her.  And ugh, now they have her for good? What has to happen to make her disappear?  

Then Beth's cousin and Toby's parents showed up and I'm thinking hey, you know who could've gotten all that screen time...

Speaking of family, Toby's brother didn't show up for the wedding, huh? That's low. 

On to the good: everything Kevin and Randall related. "She's crazy." "Yep." "Don't let me sleep with her." "Are you kidding me? We're great brothers. I would want me as a brother." LOVED.

I liked the flashforward. Well, maybe not the one 20 years into the future but the "immediate" future ones. Toby and that depression storyline is going to gut me. I immediately recognized that look, the position...just everything about it. 20 years into the future though? I liked the idea of it but not enough for this to be a reoccurring thing. 

I also think that last episode should've been about Kate running around spreading ashes, looking for the shirt, Kevin's speech, Toby's parents and this episode could've focused more on the wedding, Rebecca and Kate, Beth's cousin and Kevin and Randall as wedding coordinators and somewhere in between that Deja's mom goes to jail or gets hooked on drugs again, terminates her rights and we're exactly where we were when this episode ended. Especially since as many of you pointed out, they spent an episode flushing out the (unnecessary) backstory complete with repeated scenes only for it to be wrapped up in a few clunky lines this episode. 

[ShadowFacts]

What was Kate going to do with the t shirt anyway?  I missed that.  Cut a piece off and sew to her dress, carry part of it in her bouquet, or did they just not elaborate? 

8 hours ago, Nanners said:

I hate everything Deja related.  And I’d love to see a good plot about children “in the system”.  But I feel like this show is too sentimental to handle such a complex issue with any depth.  Deja feels like a caricature, she has no personality to me, just three modes: sullen, scared and apprehensive.  I don’t see any chemistry with her and Randall’s family.  When Beth told Kate that she fell in love with a little girl, it seemed so disingenuous to me.  I’d believe it if she was like the girl from the first foster family, there was some life to her.  And ugh, now they have her for good? What has to happen to make her disappear?  

I don't think chemistry plays much part in having a foster child.  It's not like dating.  You get who they send and do your best with them.  Sullen, scared and apprehensive would probably apply to most adolescents who are shifted around like chess pieces.   As to Raven, she was lively for sure, and she really did have criminal leanings.  I think the family would have to keep an eye on their things, at least initially, with Raven.  What has to happen to make Deja disappear?  Probably something pretty dire and sad. 

[Icuraqt]

Hi all, long time lurker, first time poster. I had an epiphany about kevin mentioning Randall's car during the ice cream scene. To reaffirm how much he loves it, only to have deja destroy it out of anger later in the episode. 

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, ShadowFacts said:

What was Kate going to do with the t shirt anyway?  I missed that.  Cut a piece off and sew to her dress, carry part of it in her bouquet, or did they just not elaborate?

It went by fast, but I think she said she was going to pin it to her dress - but I've reconsidered and think maybe she'd pin it inside her dress? Because, who'd have a ratty t-shirt pinned to the outside of an expensive bridal gown. Kate has her issues, but I think even she wouldn't do that.

[Maximona]

Wow.  Throw a show a couple of Emmies and those Very Special Episodes just start rolling down the assembly line!

I don't hate the character of Kate as written, but I do think the actress who plays her is dreadful with a whiny, nasal voice and the emotional range of a rubber band.  

Extremely bad writing to spend all that time in the last episode setting up Deja as a somewhat sympathetic character only to have her metamorphose seven days later -- yeah, yeah, yeah, not in show time, but good TV writers write with some regard for their home audience's time spans, too -- into the Bad Seed.  Using Cousin-Aunt Whatshername as an expository device -- "When I thought my mother didn't LUV me, I acted out, too! -- = Very Lame.

I liked this show its first season.  But this second season -- UGH.  

[Mystery]

Yeah, I feel like this is the season that tries men's souls. 

[JudyObscure]

14 hours ago, qtpye said:

Alexa Ray Joel (who is striking) had issues all her life, because her father was Billy Joel and mother was Christy Brinkley and she was the spitting image of Billy Joel. I don't even have to mention Blue Ivy.

I hope she realizes now how lucky she was not to take after her mother whose features are too small for her pointy chinned face.  I could never understand the hoopla over a woman who looked like every Denny's waitress in the Midwest.  Alexa Ray is dazzling.

[project90]

On 3/15/2018 at 8:54 AM, Clanstarling said:

I didn't like it much either. I had a (faint and stupid) hope that we were seeing Rebecca and Miguel's wedding - though Rebecca was made up too old for that.

I had the exact same thought. I hope we do get an episode just about their relationship going through them getting together big 3 reaction to the being together to the engagement to the wedding tho they all adult brats so not sure how enjoyable going to be but big part of time we need to see and could easily be enough for it to take up it own episode

Edited March 18, 2018 by project90

[BoogieBurns]

21 hours ago, qtpye said:

My mother was a beauty and my father was...smart. I look a lot like my father. My girl cousins and I have a joke that saying a girl looks like her father (no matter how hot the father is, because Randall is a room full of "damn" all on his own) was always a way to throw shade at a girl's looks. "You look like your father" just was code for "You're not as pretty as your mother and it is disappointing".

I look exactly like my dad. I like looking like my mom. He makes for a handsome man and a pretty girl. People tell me I look like my mother because I have her coloring. She is probably the most beautiful person I know. But I do not look like her. I'm more insulted by people lying to me (saying I look like Mom) than people seeing past my skin/eye/hair color and realizing I'm Dad's twin. My middle sister looks like no one in the family, so we tell her she's probably adopted and to keep looking for her real family (she's our Kevin, we ignore her a lot). 

Edited March 15, 2018 by BoogieBurns
because I don't have two daddies