I, Tonya (2017)

[UYI]

I noticed that there wasn't a topic for this movie yet, so I thought I would create it.

I have yet to see it, but I'm hoping to see it at some point soon. God help me, I have always had a soft spot for Tonya, even though I probably shouldn't.

[caracas1914]

58 minutes ago, UYI said:

I noticed that there wasn't a topic for this movie yet, so I thought I would create it.

I have yet to see it, but I'm hoping to see it at some point soon. God help me, I have always had a soft spot for Tonya, even though I probably shouldn't.

Cautiously raising hand looking around... Make that two of us...

Can’t wait to see it, and just want to see how they can make two of the most attrective actors around, Margot Robbie and Sebastian Stan “become” Tonya and Gillooly.

[UYI]

One thing I'm curious about is how much of a role her dad has in this movie. Despite how abusive as her mom was, she was supposed to be very close with her dad before he died in 2009.

 

He was interviewed for her E! True Hollywood Story back in 1999. As good as The Price of Gold was, I actually really love her THS too. It's especially interesting to watch, as only five years had passed since the scandal that ended her career. (Sadly, the very end of this is missing from this clip, but everything else is there.)

 

[AimingforYoko]

It's only in 37 theaters right now, I think it'll open wide in January.

[Miss Slay]

I saw this a few weeks ago---and I loved it. I went into it with hesitations - as I grew up in that era and I remember watching the Olympics and all the coverage. I believe there was a television movie as well that I also remember watching. Topped wight he excellent 30 for 30 documentary that came out a few years ago, I wondered if it was really worth revisiting the story.

That said, it absolutely was. I enjoyed all the performances and I thought the writing and directing were fantastic. Margot Robbie is a great actress and she was fantastic as Tonya. However, I do think she has the wrong body type to play Tonya as well as having the wrong look. None the less, she really can act.

I came away having more of an understanding for Tonya, and for that, I think the film was great.

[stealinghome]

I saw this tonight and thought it was solid but I’m not sure I would’ve nominated the movie for a GG. Margot Robbie and Alison Janney are excellent, though, and definitely deserve all the awards and nominations coming their way.

I did come out of the movie feeling more sympathetic toward Harding; to me, the thing that was most tragic in the movie was that a few times, she just couldn’t get out of her own way because she didn’t know how and had no support/role models. There were moments when she seemed to put things together, but she could never sustain them. And wow, if her mother was even a fraction as awful as she is in the movie, she’s truly monstrous.

The theater went dead silent when Tonya basically accused the audience.

Edited December 29, 2017 by stealinghome

[UYI]

Sufjan Stevens had wanted this to be a part of the soundtrack once he heard about the movie, but it didn't work out. He had planned this song for a long time before that, though.

[Bastet]

I loved watching Tonya Harding skate back in the day, and the more I learned about how she was treated within the figure skating world, the more I liked her.  I still have sympathy for her. 

Plus, I love Allison Janney and might actually watch her read a phone book, so I am definitely going to see this, and am a little bummed I haven't made time for it yet. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

Allison Janney as LeVona Harding was incredible.  The first half hour which mostly stars her is an absolute knockout.

At 2 hours it's pretty long but it's understandable.  I wasn't as enthralled with the rest, but it's still very interesting and it stayed with me.

[AimingforYoko]

When LaVona came to see Tonya after the "Incident", I was as wary as Tonya was. Still, when the other shoe finally dropped, it still broke my heart.

[StatisticalOutlier]

I don't think they were using the "real" music in the skating competition sequences, and wondered if it had to do with getting the rights.  But I think it was more effective without the music because they put in grunting and exertion and the sounds the skates make when they grab the ice for a jump, which you never even think about when watching these people fly around on skates.  So I don't know why they did it the way they did, but if it's because they couldn't get the music rights, it looks like one of those cases where constraints actually make for a better end product.

I've always thought that's why Iranian movies are so good.  They have to be clever to get around the censorship.

[UYI]

1 hour ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

I don't think they were using the "real" music in the skating competition sequences, and wondered if it had to do with getting the rights.  But I think it was more effective without the music because they put in grunting and exertion and the sounds the skates make when they grab the ice for a jump, which you never even think about when watching these people fly around on skates.  So I don't know why they did it the way they did, but if it's because they couldn't get the music rights, it looks like one of those cases where constraints actually make for a better end product.

I've always thought that's why Iranian movies are so good.  They have to be clever to get around the censorship.

Here are four examples of her programs for the purpose of music comparison if it helps:

Edited January 7, 2018 by UYI

[choclatechip45]

Margot Robbie and Allison Janney were fantastic. My only complaint was how they made Tonya the victim. Yes her home life was crappy, but she wasted opportunity after opportunity that was given to her. Nancy was the real victim!

[methodwriter85]

On 1/6/2018 at 6:09 PM, StatisticalOutlier said:

I don't think they were using the "real" music in the skating competition sequences, and wondered if it had to do with getting the rights.  But I think it was more effective without the music because they put in grunting and exertion and the sounds the skates make when they grab the ice for a jump, which you never even think about when watching these people fly around on skates.  So I don't know why they did it the way they did, but if it's because they couldn't get the music rights, it looks like one of those cases where constraints actually make for a better end product.

I've always thought that's why Iranian movies are so good.  They have to be clever to get around the censorship.

This movie was made for 11 million dollars. It was a rights thing for sure. But I did like how they got around that.

I really enjoyed this. I absolutely loved Alison Janney and Margot's performance. It's also kind of a shame that Sebastian Stan isn't getting any kind of awards notice, because he did a great job in making Jeff an abusive guy, yet you could see why Tonya kept going back to him.

[Shannon L.]

On 1/13/2018 at 11:42 PM, methodwriter85 said:

It's also kind of a shame that Sebastian Stan isn't getting any kind of awards notice, because he did a great job in making Jeff an abusive guy, yet you could see why Tonya kept going back to him.

Ok, thank you for this.  I thought it was my love for Bucky and thinking that Sebastian Stan is kind of hot (not in this movie, but in general) that was swaying my opinion of his portrayal and I was wondering when I became so shallow.  Glad to know I'm not the only one who was wondering why his name hadn't come up a time or two.   I thought the whole cast was great and really enjoyed the movie.

[BitterApple]

On 12/31/2017 at 6:53 PM, Bastet said:

I loved watching Tonya Harding skate back in the day, and the more I learned about how she was treated within the figure skating world, the more I liked her.  I still have sympathy for her. 

 

I do too. Tonya was a tough cookie who had to overcome so many obstacles. She didn't get any support from the USFSA because she didn't fit their version of what a female skater should be. I liked her realness, as opposed to Nancy who always came off as so stuck-up and camera-ready. 

[afterbite]

I thought this movie was phenomenal - excellent acting and excellent storytelling. Using the faux documentary approach was interesting, because it made it quite clear that the story was being told by unreliable narrators, all with vested interest in making themselves look better than they likely were. In a way, the movie let you pick through the stories to decide what happened. It's one of those 'truth is stranger than fiction' stories, because I literally don't think you could make this up - at least not with an ending like the one it has. Contrast it with Lucky Logan, for example. You have some of the same archetypes going on there - the poor folks who everyone looks down on and sees as dim-witted, the loony crooks, etc. But in that movie

Spoiler

the dimwits prevail. Granted, they're not trying to literally kneecap someone, which instantly makes you pretty unrelatable as a protag, but still they're involved in criminal shenanigans.

 

On 12/29/2017 at 2:44 AM, stealinghome said:

The theater went dead silent when Tonya basically accused the audience.

That's interesting. The movie built her up as someone who was never at fault for anything that had happened to her, always trying to put the blame elsewhere (e.g., her shoelace, the blade not being refit properly, etc), and that's what I took from that as well. She has just told us that she's doing everything she can to stay in the public eye. That's what she wants. As an accusation, it falls pretty flat imo. (That said, I also recognize that she wasn't at fault for a number of the things that happened to her, especially the abuse.)

[MarkHB]

3 Oscar nominations: Margot for Best Actress, Alison for Best Supporting Actress, and one for editing.

[KatWay]

I liked the film but I hate the awards campaign. Why are they showing Tonya Harding off like someone who's some poor misunderstood victim who finally gets the platform she deserves? Yes, she was a victim of many things in her life. That's terrible. But she's also someone who's been involved in assault and has shown absolutely no remorse for it whatsoever. If you listen to her current interviews she's still blaming everybody else and not acknowledging for a second that what happened to Nancy Kerrigan was messed up too.  She's not the victim in that particular situation. Honestly, seeing Allison Janney giving her so much credit in her awards speech makes me not want her to win the Oscar. I was seriously taken aback at that. Are we going to see Tonya Harding at the Oscars too, crying artfully in the audience? Fuck that. Bring out Nancy Kerrigan instead.

[GHScorpiosRule]

5 minutes ago, KatWay said:

Why are they showing Tonya Harding off like someone who's some poor misunderstood victim who finally gets the platform she deserves? Yes, she was a victim of many things in her life. That's terrible. But she's also someone who's been involved in assault and has shown absolutely no remorse for it whatsoever. If you listen to her current interviews she's still blaming everybody else and not acknowledging for a second that what happened to Nancy Kerrigan was messed up too.  She's not the victim in that particular situation. Honestly, seeing Allison Janney giving her so much credit in her awards speech makes me not want her to win the Oscar. I was seriously taken aback at that. Are we going to see Tonya Harding at the Oscars too, crying artfully in the audience? Fuck that. Bring out Nancy Kerrigan instead.

So much THIS. Especially the bolded part. Tonya is so full of shit.

[ombelico]

Quote

Honestly, seeing Allison Janney giving her so much credit in her awards speech makes me not want her to win the Oscar.

Agree. Allison Janney is one of my all-time favorite actresses, but I think she spent so much time in Tonya-world that she forgot that there was an actual violent crime victim in all of this, and it wasn't Tonya. I'd say she's the frontrunner for the Oscar based on the awards handed out so far, so I'm hoping that if she does win, she says something to acknowledge Kerrigan's pain in this story.

[snickers]

saw this about a month ago....as someone who was a teenager when all this went down and remembered every second of it to this day, i really appreciated this movie!

I was never a harding fan, but i soooo disliked nancy kerrigan by the time the olympics rolled around i was glad she lost gold! harding made valid points about her regarding her character

but-harding still deserved punishment for what she did....it's too bad because she was talented and i think in today's scoring, she'd do a lot better

a major problem i had with her in this movie and i had with her in the past, she never takes responsibility for anything...nothings ever her fault

janney deserves that oscar though....i'm crossing my fingers she gets it*****

Edited January 29, 2018 by snickers

[Shannon L.]

16 hours ago, ombelico said:

Agree. Allison Janney is one of my all-time favorite actresses, but I think she spent so much time in Tonya-world that she forgot that there was an actual violent crime victim in all of this, and it wasn't Tonya. I'd say she's the frontrunner for the Oscar based on the awards handed out so far, so I'm hoping that if she does win, she says something to acknowledge Kerrigan's pain in this story.

Her Golden Globe speech seemed to focus on classicism, which was certainly an issue and one that can be devastating, but definitely not the main issue.  It's almost like she missed the main point of the whole situation.  

[TheOtherOne]

'I, Nauseated': The Oregonian's ex-sports columnist nails what the Tonya Harding movie gets wrong

[anna0852]

For all that Margot and Allison rocked it (and they did!) I'm still uncomfortable with this movie. I don't like the idea of putting TH back into the spotlight or that she could be making money off of what was a viscious attack against her competitor. It just leave a bad taste in my mouth.

Edited January 29, 2018 by anna0852

[Max fan]

I really liked this movie!! I love biography movies and was really excited to see this. Glad I did. It was even better than I though! Very entertaining! Superb acting !

[anyanka323]

On 1/25/2018 at 2:39 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

So much THIS. Especially the bolded part. Tonya is so full of shit.

I liked the movie, but find the 2017-18 Tonya Harding redemption tour to be uncomfortable.  It's more sympathetic to Harding than some would like, especially Nancy Kerrigan fans, but doesn't gloss over many of Harding's rough edges. 

[reggiejax]

I enjoyed the movie, even though I am firmly in the "Tonya Harding can suck it!" camp.

Nothing in this movie changed my position about Harding,  but like I said, it was a good movie.

[Lel]

I just hope Tonya can take some of the good will generated by this movie and use it to improve her perception of herself. Bitterness is all consuming and no way to go through life. 

[Steph J]

55 minutes ago, Lel said:

I just hope Tonya can take some of the good will generated by this movie and use it to improve her perception of herself. Bitterness is all consuming and no way to go through life. 

Given this article it seems unlikely that she's learned a damn thing from any of this (and I don't even mean saying that she would've voted for Trump; she's a conservative so she's going to vote Republican. I mean claiming that she "chooses not to vote" when in fact she's not allowed to vote, which means that she's still cherry picking facts to suit the narrative that she wants rather than the truth as it is).

[Lel]

3 hours ago, Steph J said:

Given this article it seems unlikely that she's learned a damn thing from any of this (and I don't even mean saying that she would've voted for Trump; she's a conservative so she's going to vote Republican. I mean claiming that she "chooses not to vote" when in fact she's not allowed to vote, which means that she's still cherry picking facts to suit the narrative that she wants rather than the truth as it is).

Actually, I believe that NYT article is mistaken. Felons in the state of Washington can vote unless they are incarcerated, on parole or probation, or for failure to pay fines.

https://www.sos.wa.gov/elections/voters/felons-and-voting-rights.aspx

Edited February 6, 2018 by Lel

[Lel]

Edited February 6, 2018 by Lel

[Yokosmom]

Saw the movie this weekend and loved it, though it never pointed out that Kerrigan also came from a blue-collar background, though admittedly not an awful one like Tonya.  She (Kerrigan) was still able to play the ice princess when she skated.  All of the interviews with the wildly conflicting statements were great, because that's how it does indeed go in real life.  The Shawn Hartnett (international man of mystery who is still living in his parent's basement) character was eminently delusional.

[SlovakPrincess]

On January 29, 2018 at 6:17 PM, anna0852 said:

For all that Margot and Allison rocked it (and they did!) I'm still uncomfortable with this movie. I don't like the idea of putting TH back into the spotlight or that she could be making money off of what was a viscious attack against her competitor. It just leave a bad taste in my mouth.

 

Yeah.  I'm curious about the movie, but I would feel weird supporting it financially, somehow.  Downplaying the actual physical harm done to Kerrigan (which could have been - and was intended to be - so much worse!) just seems so wrong.  Especially since Kerrigan has been through a lot in recent years, and I doubt she needs this crap in her life again.  

I remember this whole thing from when I was a kid.  I ended up being ... Team Oksana!  'cause she really was the best in that Olympics.  But what was done to Kerrigan was beyond the pale.  And I didn't feel at all bad for Harding when her performance fell apart and she went home without any medals.  

Edited February 13, 2018 by SlovakPrincess

[charmed1]

I agree with so many of you. I too thought the actress playing Harding was of the wrong body type, which normally wouldn’t be a big deal, but the real Tonya Harding’s body type was such a big deal back then. TH was a solid, thick as hell, athlete with an athletic body, but it was contrary to the waif-like, ballerina on ice image of figure skaters at the time. I would kill to have a body like that.

I also thought the film made Harding out to be a victim. Nancy Kerrigan was absolutely the victim, and she too trained her entire life and didn’t deserve to be maliciously injured by some disturbed, entitled, envious person. I wasn’t a big Nancy fan, (I was rooting for Kristi Yamaguchi)but man did I love her outfits! Nancy’s skating outfits were a young girl’s prom dress fashion plate. They were so freaking beautiful, and she made them look even more beautiful on the ice. Oksana on the other hand, I thought looked like a painted chicken. I didn’t understand how TH got shit for her style, when Oksana got away with looking like that. And even though I was a young teenager at the time, the sight of her little legs in those huge skates made me think even more that she shouldn’t be competing with adults. I had a really irrational teenage hate for that kid. Sorry Oksana.

[Inquisitionist]

9 hours ago, charmed1 said:

Oksana on the other hand, I thought looked like a painted chicken.

LOL, do you mean like this?

[charmed1]

4 hours ago, Inquisitionist said:

LOL, do you mean like this?

Ugh. I would proudly wear Tonya’s home made frocks any day over that monstrosity.

[Raja]

9 hours ago, charmed1 said:

Ugh. I would proudly wear Tonya’s home made frocks any day over that monstrosity.

All this reminds of of the emperor wears no clothes. Given the caste system of the glamour sport because Tonya wears it it automatically becomes bad in judges eyes and what the princess class wears is automatically good.

[methodwriter85]

15 hours ago, Raja said:

All this reminds of of the emperor wears no clothes. Given the caste system of the glamour sport because Tonya wears it it automatically becomes bad in judges eyes and what the princess class wears is automatically good.

I did feel bad for Movie Tonya where she talks about dressing pretty because you know that she will never be pretty or acceptable.

This was such a sublime piece of acting:

It takes the ridiculous amount of blush that Real Tonya had on during that skate and turns it into a poignant moment. She's trying to be pretty, and she's trying to keep herself from breaking down, and it's a powerful moment, probably the best one Margot's had so far.

[Hybridcookie]

Finally saw this, and I thought Margot Robbie was amazing. I feel like they could've cut it down a bit in the middle, and I could've done with a lot less Sebastian Stan and the annoying 'bodyguard', but I did like it.

[Inquisitionist]

On 3/13/2018 at 6:43 PM, Hybridcookie said:

I thought Margot Robbie was amazing. 

She really was.  First time I've seen her in anything, and I was impressed.

[BuyMoreAndSave]

As someone who recently became a NASCAR fan, I feel like Tonya should have tried to get into professional auto racing after her skating career ended. It's clearly something she's interested in (since she set a world record for speed in a vintage car a few years ago). Not only is she interested in driving cars but also in the mechanics of cars (something a surprising amount of professional racers do not know about), which means she would also be knowledgeable about modifications. It's also a lot less restrictive than skating. Most skaters retire from competition well before age 30, which means that even without the controversy, Tonya's career would have been over shortly after the 1994 Olympics. Drivers can stay in the sport for many years before retiring (for example Kevin Harvick just won three NASCAR races in a row and he's over age 40). There also are a lot fewer skating competitions than there are auto races, and in auto racing people seem to care more about your overall record rather than how you did at a single big competition, which would be good for Tonya given her inconsistencies. Also, having a female in the sport, especially one with such controversy attached to her, would also have attracted more interest in racing and opened the door for more women to enter the sport. And most importantly, it seems like the auto racing community cares a lot less about a person's demons than the skating community. In fact they often embrace having hated people and rivalries in the sport, because it makes the races more interesting.

Some people might say that no respectable sport would allow her after what happened, but I think if people like Chris Brown and Mark Wahlberg can still have careers after doing way worse things, she could still have had one too. At age 50 she is too old now, but it's not unheard of for people to start out in their mid-20s.

[Milburn Stone]

I enjoyed the movie, but am curious about one thing--the sentence the judge gave her at the end. I can see where it's in a judge's power to deny someone her freedom by sentencing her to jail or parole, and/or to require a fine, and/or to require community service. But can a judge bar someone from participating in a legal activity--as this judge (in the movie) barred her from ever figure skating in public again? That seemed fishy to me. Now, I can believe that the Figure Skating Association barred her--that would be within its purview--but I don't see how that's within a judge's discretion to do. My guess is that the movie conflated these decisions to simplify the storytelling, putting the USFSA decision in the mouth of the judge. But I could be wrong! Does anyone know the facts on this?

[Vera]

3 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

I enjoyed the movie, but am curious about one thing--the sentence the judge gave her at the end. I can see where it's in a judge's power to deny someone her freedom by sentencing her to jail or parole, and/or to require a fine, and/or to require community service. But can a judge bar someone from participating in a legal activity--as this judge (in the movie) barred her from ever figure skating in public again? That seemed fishy to me. Now, I can believe that the Figure Skating Association barred her--that would be within its purview--but I don't see how that's within a judge's discretion to do. My guess is that the movie conflated these decisions to simplify the storytelling, putting the USFSA decision in the mouth of the judge. But I could be wrong! Does anyone know the facts on this?

Artistic Licence and a problem I have with this movie on the whole.

 

You're right, it was the USFS who banned her from participating in USFSA events as either a skater or a coach and they conducted their own investigation into the matter (and after Tonya herself pleaded guilty to hindering the prosecution's investigations). Non-USFS events became a problem when other skaters refused to work with her. 

[Milburn Stone]

Thanks for confirming my suspicion, @Vera.

Irony: This movie is a critique of glib, facile, tabloidy journalism and a capricious public's appetite for it, and at the same time Exhibit A of glib, facile, tabloidy journalism in search of hit status with an audience. Now, you can respond to that fact two ways. You can say that this is the movie's brilliance, in that the movie is the message: It bravely treats the key figures in the story as shabbily (and with as little regard for facts) as the media did in 1994, brazenly reveling in its own shoddiness so as not to exempt itself from its condemnation. (What better way to make us aware of the problem than to be the problem?) Or you can say that the movie wants to eat its cake and have it too, since it pretends a virtuousness it does not possess, congratulating itself (and its audience) for the sharpness of its media critique all the while it denies itself nothing of the audience-pleasing advantages of the fact-challenged trash-journalism style.

Edited March 19, 2018 by Milburn Stone

[NutMeg]

I knew close to nothing about this before the movie, but I came out of it with a sense of shock that an athlete could be condemned legally to never compete again. That seems so unfair, even Mike Tyson got a second chance (not that I know much about hm either, but I know the name and I have a general idea of what he meant to his sport). Another takeout was how good Tanya was when she was good, the video at the end gave me goosebumps. The whole thing is so tragic, such a waste of talent. 

[SallyAlbright]

Just watched this for the second time at home (I saw it in theaters in December) and I came away even more impressed with Margot Robbie the second time around. The makeup clip posted above and her final courtroom scene had me choking up - she doesn't overdo the emotion but really makes you feel her pain. Excellent acting, and I look forward to seeing what she does next. She is the one girl in Hollywood these days that I think has genuine old-school movie star magnetism and the talent to match. 

[cpcathy]

Finally saw this On Demand and really enjoyed it. I was a HUGE fan of figure skating until the scoring changes, so I knew everything that was in the film. I thought Margot Robbie did a great job, even for being the wrong body type, and I think she made Tonya smarter than what she was. Sorry, I think Tonya is a bad person and just okay skater, I have no sympathy for her. Tonya should be thrilled with this film, she's never going to be shown in a better light.

[roughing it]

I had a hard time with Robbie's portrayal, not in the acting but the physical attributes, that it often took me out of the story.  It was almost comical portraying a 15 year old Tonya when Margot looks 35. (I don't know how old she is.)  The wide eyes when Tonya has close-set eyes.  Tonya is short and muscular and Margot tall and lithe.  I had trouble reconciling it all.

Tonya and Nancy were friends?  And had smoking and drinking beer nights?  Maybe in Tonya's mind they were friends.  I think a lot of what's in Tonya's mind is fictional.

Edited April 25, 2018 by roughing it

[UYI]

On 4/25/2018 at 4:26 PM, roughing it said:

Tonya and Nancy were friends?  And had smoking and drinking beer nights?  Maybe in Tonya's mind they were friends.  I think a lot of what's in Tonya's mind is fictional.

Honestly, I CAN imagine something like this happening once, and Nancy doing everything she can to forget it and never mention it out loud.

I DID find it funny that En Vogue's "Free Your Mind" played during that scene. Nancy danced to that song on DWTS last year. I wonder if that was chosen deliberately as a shout out/shade by the movie's producers.

Yes, I finally watched the movie recently. I promise, when I can, I'll sit down and provide all my thoughts on it at once.