S02.E08: Dear Mrs. Kennedy

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, AZChristian said:

Some articles indicate that the rule was put into effect because of George's death and Elizabeth not have a black dress.  But even on The Crown, I think they said that her maid "neglected to pack a black dress" . . . making it sound like it had already been a practice to do so.  The advent of cameras have made it a lot more necessary . . . we are all subject to being filmed at all times when out in public.  

I read in an article that even "news readers" (anchors on TV shows) in the UK have to keep a black outfit at the studio in case they have to announce the death of one of the senior royals.

When she toured Canada and visited D.C.in 1951 she had a accession declaration in case the King died while she was on tour. I assume they packed a black dress on that tour also. I think it was due to his health. But I've always wonder if that would be something they'd always have with them just in case. Not just in case something happens to the King but her mother, grandmother, other relatives, other royals, presidents, prime ministers, etc. while she's touring.    

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

When she toured Canada and visited D.C.in 1951 she had a accession declaration in case the King died while she was on tour. I assume they packed a black dress on that tour also. I think it was due to his health. But I've always wonder if that would be something they'd always have with them just in case. Not just in case something happens to the King but her mother, grandmother, other relatives, other royals, presidents, prime ministers, etc. while she's touring.    

Grim, but handy, especially in a society where black is not just for funerals, but for mourning. I remember shopping for funeral clothes on Boxing Day - not an experience I'd want to repeat.

[kassygreene]

I think it may have been more an issue of not taking ALL of the luggage in to Kenya.  It's a lot of luggage - one of the first books on QEII I ever read (more than fifty years ago), which was published I think in 1965, spent some time on the piles of luggage during the re-scheduled 1953/54 trip - apparently repeating outfits on official engagements was very much a No - and it was a six-month trip.  SO I think it was more a matter of a black dress not getting packed into the subset of luggage intended for the stay in Kenya, but going on to the next stop where I think they were going to board a ship and head east.  

[Tyro49]

My husband and I were shocked to see JFK depicted as physically abusing Jackie. Is there any basis in reality for that scene?

[secnarf]

1 hour ago, Tyro49 said:

My husband and I were shocked to see JFK depicted as physically abusing Jackie. Is there any basis in reality for that scene?

It has been discussed ad nauseam in this thread, but the short answer is no.

[Eri]

I must say, my favourite part of the episode was the adorable "doggy" room where Elizabeth and Jackie petted the puppies. More corgis please!

[CeeBeeGee]

On 12/9/2017 at 3:38 AM, Roseanna said:

Whatever Philip may have done, he never publicly humilated Elizabeth like Jack Kennedy who would leave the party and his wife in order to have sex with some woman.  That's a big difference.    

I actually thought Philip was on his game this episode, and really seemed to have Elizabeth's back. He was clearly invested in prepping E for the Ghana trip (even if a bit chauvinistically--yes, he was talking down to her a bit, he still didn't want to see her played); 2) when he was openly and physically trying to protect her at the first meeting when the journalists rushed in (kind of a scary moment at first, I can see why he was so nervous; 3) his pride when she danced with Nkrume. I really liked him.

 

On 12/21/2017 at 1:10 AM, Pallas said:

He wasn't liked -- for one thing, an Irish American ambassador, only 16 years after Irish independence. For another, a stock speculator. For another, Joe Kennedy. But as Ambassador, he didn't need to assimilate, he only needed to receive. And Joe, Jr.,  Jack and Kathleen (Kick) were themselves very well-received in England, with Kick going on to marry the heir to the Duchy of Devonshire (as pointed out above). 

Here's the lout who accompanied Mrs. Kennedy to London, 22 years earlier: with Joe and Kick in September 1939, on their way to the House of Commons to hear war declared.

Right--as others have said, yes, the Ambassador was cordially detested (and even recalled by FDR, I believe) because of his terrible statesmanship and advice, the children were actually quite well-received. Kick in particular absolutely took London society by storm. And Rosemarie was presented to the Queen.

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, CeeBeeGee said:

Kick in particular absolutely took London society by storm.

Definitely: She married the heir to the Duke of Devonshire (the Marquess of Hartington), and then after he died had an affair with Earl Fitzwilliam. She died with him in a plane crash.

[Milburn Stone]

Sixthing or seventhing (or maybe nineteenthing or twentiething) how dumbed-down Peter Morgan's writing was in the protocol scene. This show is so blasted uneven! One episode contains exquisitely nuanced writing; the next contains dialogue a CBS sitcom writer would be ashamed to put his name on. Is Peter Morgan on some kind of feelgood-pill roller coaster himself?

Edited January 10, 2018 by Milburn Stone

[Sweet-tea]

On 12/11/2017 at 1:53 AM, Roseanna said:

I haven't seen any actor succeed in President Kennedy's role. 

I remember an old movie in which William Devane played Kennedy. He was a lot better than Michael C. Hall, who came across as a jerk. Devane conveyed Kennedy's charisma IMO. 

Carolina Girl was ahead of me. 

I wasn't impressed with the actress playing Jackie either. She seemed too slight and delicate-looking. Perhaps they cast her for the vulnerability she conveyed in some of her scenes with Elizabeth. IDK but I didn't buy it. 

Although certainly stylish, I've always thought Jackie's looks were overrated. 

Edited January 16, 2018 by Sweet-tea

[Inquisitionist]

On 1/9/2018 at 10:13 PM, CeeBeeGee said:

Right--as others have said, yes, the Ambassador was cordially detested (and even recalled by FDR, I believe) because of his terrible statesmanship and advice, the children were actually quite well-received. Kick in particular absolutely took London society by storm. And Rosemarie was presented to the Queen.

I'd always heard her referred to as "Rosemary," but it appears she was christened Rose Marie.  She was presented at court along with her mother, Rose, and sister, Kathleen. I haven't figured out how to insert photos, but if you Google "Rosemary Kennedy presented at court" you can find some.  :-)

[jjj]

I just stumbled across a photograph of a four-page letter from Elizabeth II on the exact same stationery we see her using in this episode (and other episodes) in 1960, addressed "Dear Mr. President" and chastising herself for not sending him the scone recipe she had promised (along with instructions for cutting it in half, in case he was not making scones for 16, like she did).  It was completely charming, and baffling, because she mentioned his lovely trip with her to Balmoral -- and finally I "got it" at the end, when she sent her greetings to Mrs. Eisenhower also.  Even though I was baffled by her sending JFK her scone recipe, I am not sure that President Eisenhower was any more a baker than JFK! 

[Pallas]

But a golfer Ike was! I'm sure he took good advantage of his visit to Scotland.

[J-Man]

Quote

She was concerned that Russia would gain more influence over Ghana and it would be tempted to Ally closer with them, rather than stay part of the United Kingdom.

Ghana was never part of the United Kingdom; it was a British colony.  In any event it became independent in 1957 (although it remained part of the Commonwealth.)

[Razzberry]

Gotta love those emeralds.

[VCRTracking]

I'm going to miss Claire Foy's Elizabeth intimidating people. I love Olivia Colman but I don't think it's going to be the same. There's too much warmth to her where Foy can be ice cold.

[PeterPirate]

That bit about the Queen's Guard yelling at Jackie Kennedy to make way is my least favorite moment of the two seasons.  That was a thoroughly inappropriate way to treat any First Lady of the United States.  

Edited February 6, 2018 by PeterPirate

[Roseanna]

On ‎6‎.‎2‎.‎2018 at 12:55 PM, PeterPirate said:

That bit about the Queen's Guard yelling at Jackie Kennedy to make way is my least favorite moment of the two seasons.  That was a thoroughly inappropriate way to treat any First Lady of the United States.  

No doubt it would have been inappropriate IRL and therefore never happened.

However, in the show Jackie had behaved in the much more inappropriate way towards the sovereign of an important ally which her position as First Lady made it only worse. Elizabeth had every right to show her that with the help of her guard.  

[AZChristian]

I think it was simply a warning of "watch out."  Jackie had seen a double column of horses trotting past, and walked through a gap before the next double column came by.  I would think it was perfectly natural for the man in the front of the second group of trotting horses to yell out, "Make way for the Queen's guard."  Easier to yell "watch out" to a pedestrian who doesn't have enough sense NOT to walk in front of horses than to try to stop a double line of trotting horses.

The fact that the horses were there, however, was probably a show of "look what I've got that you don't" from the Queen.  And good on her!

[LakeLover]

On 1/1/2018 at 6:42 PM, UsernameFatigue said:

I loved this episode (though agree the the casting of JFK was off). So many funny lines, from Phillips saying to Elizabeth regarding meeting the Kennedys, "It's like royalty" to Elizabeth, after hearing of Jackie's comments about her "We must have her again soon". And of course the comment about her meeting with Jackie being moved to Windsor Castle, because a fortress would be better. Lol. 

Some of the scenes reminded me of events that happened years later. The queen dancing and appearing to enjoy herself reminded me of Princess Diana dancing with John Travolta. And Jackie's lack of following protocol reminded me of Michelle Obama hugging the queen. Not only did Jackie greet the queen first, call her by the wrong name and not curtsy, she spoke to the queen first which is also a breech of protocol. As others have said, it is unlikely that that many, if any, mistakes would have been made. Though it appears that unkind remarks about the palace furnishings, and the queen's dress and hairstyle were indeed made by the Kennedys. (According to Cecil Beaton and Gore Vidal). 

In looking at actual pictures from the dinner, I quite like Elizabeth's dress and thought it suited her. Jackie's reminded me of the Carol Burnett sketch where she is wearing the drapes still on the curtain rod. Jackie's dress looks like it is still on the hanger. All in all though I really liked this epi, and particularly liked the ending where Elizabeth commented that sometimes things aren't as bad as they seem (to paraphrase). 

As an American citizen and not a citizen of the Commonwealth, Mrs. Kennedy would not be required curtsy, although the other breeches were noticeable. Having said that, there's no way the Kennedys called her by the wrong name. They would have been briefed accordingly.

 

Unlikely place for me to find an article about the meeting: https://www.rd.com/culture/when-jackie-kennedy-met-the-queen/

[Crs97]

I remember a gentleman from the administration telling a story that Jackie discussed protocol with him, especially about curtsying to foreign monarchs, and they decided as the wife of the President she didn’t need to.  At John’s funeral the gentleman saw her give a small curtsy to one of the attending leaders; when he came beside her she told him, “I’m no longer the wife of the President.” He got choked up in the interview remembering the moment.  I seriously doubt the Kennedys were the buffoons depicted in The Crown.

[AZChristian]

We just re-watched this episode yesterday.  I think my favorite part was Martin and Michael's sotto voce comments about the Kennedys' breaches of protocol.  It doesn't matter to me whether every one of them was true . . . the scene as presented was really funny.  And then when JFK commented to Philip something like, "That did not go well," and then Philip said, "I've seen worse, but I can't remember exactly when."  

[PeterPirate]

I suppose the final takeaway from this episode is that when an uncouth resident of the White House plans to visits the Queen, it's best to shunt her (or him) off to Windsor Castle. 

Edited July 7, 2018 by PeterPirate

[IDreamofJoaquin]

I really liked the costume design for this episode.   Michael C. Hall - DEXTER as JFK.  Ummm no.  And the actress who plays Jackie also stands out as not very Jackie like.  Considering the show has done so well with realistic portrayals I am shocked by these choices.  It is funny to see them talk about how badly the POTUS and FLOTUS acted when 45 was an absolute ass during his recent visit.

Liz gets clowned by Jackie O.   LOL

Edited August 9, 2018 by IDreamofJoaquin

[paramitch]

I thought this was excellent. I thought Hall was okay as JFK (and unlike the recapper thought he did achieve brief flashes of JFK, especially in his speech).

I was also not sold on the actress who played Jackie at first (Jodie Balfour) yet somehow by the end I thought she was absolutely extraordinary. Jackie's final talk with Elizabeth was so unexpectedly moving, and I thought Jackie's combination of strength, intelligence, and absolute fragility was incredibly poignant.

And Claire Foy continues to knock it out of the freaking park. So many emotions are visible on her face even when she is (sigh) given little to say.

[PeterPirate]

On 1/16/2018 at 4:25 AM, Sweet-tea said:

I remember an old movie in which William Devane played Kennedy. He was a lot better than Michael C. Hall, who came across as a jerk. Devane conveyed Kennedy's charisma IMO.  

The movie is The Missiles of October, about the Cuban missile crisis.  It's available on Youtube, and yes, Devane was excellent in it.  

Another future president, Martin Sheen, played Bobby Kennedy.  

[VCRTracking]

Totally forgot until reading a tweet besides Thanksgiving that today was also the 55th anniversary of the assassination.

Edited November 23, 2018 by VCRTracking

[Conotocarious]

It’s taken me this long to watch the Crown and it’s among the best TV shows I’ve ever seen.

Which is why I was so annoyed by the terrible Kennedy portrayal. JFK bore more of a resemblance to that Billy Bob Thornton president in Love, Actually, a movie that makes me grind my teeth for so very many reasons. Just abominable. In all the Kennedy reading I’ve done, which is quite a lot, never has there been any hint of his jealousy over her success. It’s like these writers think that because Charles was so jealous of Diana’s success, all men must be? Whatever. Don’t put that on the Kennedys, writers, that’s your royalty’s issues.

Edited December 18, 2018 by Conotocarious

[chaifan]

On 12/8/2017 at 11:10 PM, PinkRibbons said:

Can someone explain to me what Elizabeth realized when she saw Jackie was still wearing her bloodstained suit? I'm feeling incredibly dense.

I know there were several questions and responses on this issue.  But my take away was that what Elizabeth saw was Jackie taking control of the narrative, much like Elizabeth did in Ghana with the dance.  They both live lives where they are largely told what to do by others (men) but know what powerful statements typically feminine actions (dress, dance) can make.  It wasn't just that Jackie purposely chose to remain in the blood stained suit, it was that Elizabeth recognized it was Jackie's decision to do so (no one would have ever asked her to do so, no matter what PR could be gained) and the statement it made to the world.  I also think the sequence of events - Elizabeth immediately going to Michael's office - was meant to show it was out of this respect for Jackie - not JFK - that she ordered court mourning and the bells to be rung. 

Also, someone questioned why Jackie's hair and dress differed from what Jackie Kennedy actually wore that day.  I'm also confused about why the dress was so similar, yet different (strapless vs. sleeveless with a boatneck top).  But I think the hair was purposely different because without the bouffant the actress playing Jackie would bear no resemblance to her at all.  JK's hair was in an updo in real life.  But having the actress wear the bouffant JK was known for kept the character in play.

And finally, my guess as to why the dress models weren't Elizabeth's size/shape... if she didn't buy the dress, the designer would still want to sell it to someone else, and there are far fewer women Elizabeth's size to sell to.  But ugh, all those dresses shown were awful and as others had remarked, looked like prom dresses. 

Edited January 27, 2019 by chaifan

[Umbelina]

I'm so torn about this episode.

As many others have said, the portrayal of the Kennedy's was beyond problematic.  Was Dexter doing a 'southie" accent there?  Good God. 

Oh, and for the first time I can ever remember doing so, I'm going to really criticize the person in charge of hair.  Jackie had fantastic hair, full, glossy, iconic (although it was interesting to read about her chemically straightening it earlier in this thread.)  In public, her hair was always perfection, inspired many "Jackie" hair styles, probably as many as Princess Diana's did years later.  If the actresses hair was that incapable of looking good, then bring out the wigs.  That blowsy look was so not "Jackie," let alone at a formal dinner!

I have no problem with no curtsy, the first lady of the USA should not publicly curtsy to a King or Queen of our former sovereigns.  The idea that the Kennedy's wouldn't know the rest of the protocol, greetings and such, is horrendous writing though, and all for the enjoyable laughs from the courtiers side comments.  I think the cost of those jokes was too high, and lessened the impact of what was for me, a very enjoyable episode.  I could and did fan wank the rest away happily.  The country bumpkins at court though was completely over the top and stupid.

Moving past that, the awful casting, the horrific hair, the ridiculous bumbles at greetings?  My fan wanking ran free and relatively unhindered through the "relationship" scenes with the Queen, Philip, and Jackie.

Why?  Because I was loving it all, and because Foy made me believe in the emotions of it all.  Two of the most famous women in the world, both constantly in the public eye, both representatives of their countries was heady stuff to mine, and the avoided the "cat fight" tropes, and instead of diminishing either woman, in the end, that rivalry elevated both women in most ways.  Caroline Siede of AV Club says it better.

Also, I loved the episode because it was a ride, I was riveted from scene to scene, and delighted with the humor and the pathos of it all, and in the end, the strength shown by both women.

I think there is evidence that Jacki gossiped at that dinner (can't remember where, but I saw it in a couple of places, including I believe, in the DVD extras.)  Did she gossip because of Dr. Feelgood's meds?  Honestly, being under the influence does seem the most likely reason to dis the Queen in public, so again, my fan wanking didn't need all that much wanking.

As for the two scenes with the women, while I doubt anything of the sort happened, at least not that blatantly an openly, I could easily see both of them happening, so I could let it go as far as annoyances.  It served the story, and "opening up" to perhaps the only other woman in the world that might understand, and would keep it to herself made a certain kind of sense to me.  The Queen failing to reciprocate Jackie's openness during the apology tea was a wise choice as well, and her regretting that later was a powerful scene.

I adored the Queen heading off to Ghana, and the dancing, and actually all of the African scenes.  To me, it is completely logically possible for Jackie's great success in France, and everyone gushing over her, might have been enough to spur the Queen into a bit of daring herself.

In spite of it's faults, I loved this episode though.  I felt they captured believable emotions and mixed well with some historic events, and I was able to forgive the contrivances for what I felt, in the end, was touching.

The person in charge of hair has a lot to answer for though.  Oh, and the casting director can suck eggs as well.  The writer of introduction scene traded jokes for sense.  Pity all of those.

[PeterPirate]

On 12/17/2018 at 10:55 AM, Conotocarious said:

Which is why I was so annoyed by the terrible Kennedy portrayal. JFK bore more of a resemblance to that Billy Bob Thornton president in Love, Actually, a movie that makes me grind my teeth for so very many reasons. Just abominable. In all the Kennedy reading I’ve done, which is quite a lot, never has there been any hint of his jealousy over her success. It’s like these writers think that because Charles was so jealous of Diana’s success, all men must be? Whatever. Don’t put that on the Kennedys, writers, that’s your royalty’s issues.

The President of the United States was depicted as quite nasty.

[Bunnyette]

Note in November 1963, the Queen was 5 months pregnant with Prince Edward.  It didn’t look like that in the show...

[Inquisitionist]

On 6/10/2019 at 8:59 PM, Bunnyette said:

Note in November 1963, the Queen was 5 months pregnant with Prince Edward.  It didn’t look like that in the show...

That's the least of the problems with this episode!

But I did go back to watch the Nov. 1963 scenes, and while they don't appear to have padded Claire Foy, she's wearing some loose-fitting clothing and occasionally holding her arms across her belly in the way that pregnant women often do.

But did the royals really go to bed that early?  They show Elizabeth getting into bed, where Phillip is already seemingly asleep, and saying "He's dead." The announcement that Pres. Kennedy had died occurred before 3 pm EST, which means before 9 pm in London.  

[Umbelina]

I don't really care about the time issues that much.  It does seem odd that they didn't get that correct though.  I didn't care for the actors playing Jack or Bobby, but after watching again several times, Mrs. Kennedy grew on me.

This remains, overall, one of my two favorite episodes, it has pain, joy, scope, and keeps me interested from start to finish, with the exception of Jack's speech in DC.  My other favorite is the Billy Graham/Nazi King episode.  Stand outs both.

[Ohiopirate02]

On 8/3/2019 at 12:44 PM, Inquisitionist said:

That's the least of the problems with this episode!

But I did go back to watch the Nov. 1963 scenes, and while they don't appear to have padded Claire Foy, she's wearing some loose-fitting clothing and occasionally holding her arms across her belly in the way that pregnant women often do.

But did the royals really go to bed that early?  They show Elizabeth getting into bed, where Phillip is already seemingly asleep, and saying "He's dead." The announcement that Pres. Kennedy had died occurred before 3 pm EST, which means before 9 pm in London.  

I believe they were at Balmoral,  so I could see them keeping country hours.  Rise with the sun or before, spend all outdoors, and in bed by 8.

[RedbirdNelly]

I enjoyed this episode, but like most people, was really taken out of it by the bad JKF casting. As in burst out with "that looks NOTHING like JFK" the moment he was on screen.

Also I really don't know why we had to watch that much of the JFK speech. What was the point? this was not some big historical moment like a Winston Churchill WWII speech. Outside of those moments, no one likes listening to politicians give speeches in real life, so why include that much in a show? You can just show 2 seconds of wrapping up a speech to show it's at an event and move on. . .

But outside of that, the episode was solid and I enjoyed Elizabeth taken more initiative. Deciding to ring the bell and not backing down. It could have only been better if for some reason Tommy was in the room and did his normal "well, you could but. . that's not how it's done." I'd enjoy a scene where she stands up to Tommy's advice. (plus his scenes are always good)

[xtwheeler]

On 2/26/2018 at 8:11 PM, LakeLover said:

As an American citizen and not a citizen of the Commonwealth, Mrs. Kennedy would not be required curtsy, although the other breeches were noticeable. Having said that, there's no way the Kennedys called her by the wrong name. They would have been briefed accordingly.

No one is required to curtsy to the Queen, per the official website. 

Someone mentioned Michelle Obama above. It is a myth that one cannot touch the person of the monarch. She is said to have felt and shared Mrs. Obama's warm affection immediately, and it was neither an offence to her or her station, nor unwelcome.

[Umbelina]

I think my favorite scene in all of the episodes so far (through season 3) is THE dance, perfect cast, loved the beaming smile from Elizabeth to Philip when she saw that tiny smile on his face and she knew he was proud of her.  Just perfection all the way around.

[smartymarty]

On 6/1/2019 at 5:13 PM, PeterPirate said:

It’s like these writers think that because Charles was so jealous of Diana’s success, all men must be?

The biography I read of JFK recently stated that he was angry with how she out-shined him in Paris, though he openly joked about it.

FYI, the book also said that he met Princess Elizabeth back when his father was ambassador. So this was not their first meeting.

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 12/11/2017 at 2:53 AM, Roseanna said:

I haven't seen any actor succeed in President Kennedy's role. 

I'm responding 3 years later, but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caspar_Phillipson certainly looks the part and has played him several times now.  It would have been preferable to Michael C. Hall anyway.

[Chai]

On 12/12/2017 at 4:14 PM, teddysmom said:

You know who could have pulled off Kennedy as far as looks?    James Marsden.  He played him in The Butler.  ANd he's definitely as handsome as Kennedy.   He has the voice down really well. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zs9KlVYDZjM

Absolutely! I agree with James Marsden being able to play a handsome Jfk. Thats what I thought when I was watching him in Dead to Me.

[Umbelina]

It's keeps coming up in other threads that the Kennedy's didn't bow or curtsy at that ball.  While I am complete sick of the country bumpkin way Americans are portrayed on this show, that part?  I liked.

I had 5 relatives that fought in the Revolutionary War in the US.  I seriously doubt I will ever meet "royalty" but I damn sure wouldn't curtsy to them, or at least not to the British.  They would "roll over in their graves" so to speak.  😉  We fought an entire war about deference to that monarchy, indeed, about that monarchy itself.  In no way, at least not at a formal public occasion, should the president or his wife have bowed to her.  

So that was the one thing the show did correctly, even though it was, show-wise, out of stupidity, not choice.  The title mix up greetings were ridiculous though, and wouldn't have happened.

Mrs. Kennedy choosing to cursy while at a private lunch and on an apology mission was perfectly appropriate though.

[benteen]

The Queen isn't a monarch to the American people and certainly not to an American president and first lady.  So our leaders shouldn't be bowing to anyone.

21 hours ago, Umbelina said:

So that was the one thing the show did correctly, even though it was, show-wise, out of stupidity, not choice.  The title mix up greetings were ridiculous though, and wouldn't have happened.

That sums it up perfectly.

This episode still remains a low point on The Crown for me.

[Umbelina]

7 hours ago, benteen said:

The Queen isn't a monarch to the American people and certainly not to an American president and first lady.  So our leaders shouldn't be bowing to anyone.

That sums it up perfectly.

This episode still remains a low point on The Crown for me.

I love the episode, still.  I just hate any parts that have Jack or Bobby on screen.  

[Roseanna]

8 hours ago, benteen said:

The Queen isn't a monarch to the American people and certainly not to an American president and first lady.  So our leaders shouldn't be bowing to anyone.

Actually, any citizens of other countries shouldn't as it's a way to show allegiance. Our President, frustrated when Diana was late, said half in jest that if anyone will bow or curtsy before her, it will be treason. 

[Growsonwalls]

I do not get this episode at all. The Kennedy's are well-known figures. How could casting get the look and mannerisms of Jack and Jackie SO spectacularly wrong? The accents, the hair, the expressions ... it was just so off.

[Milburn Stone]

10 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

I do not get this episode at all. The Kennedy's are well-known figures. How could casting get the look and mannerisms of Jack and Jackie SO spectacularly wrong? The accents, the hair, the expressions ... it was just so off.

I'm thinking maybe because the show is British? I realize the show is seen by millions of Americans, and owned by an American company, but it is British-produced. As an American, I would fail a test at distinguishing a Manchester (England) accent from a Birmingham accent; likewise, maybe they just don't hear American regional dialects with the specificity we do. And for sure, in all other ways, the still-living British audience doesn't remember the Kennedys with as much detail as we do.

What I find much harder to accept is that the Kennedys would be ignorant of British royal protocol. Like we don't have a State Department?

Edited December 3, 2020 by Milburn Stone

[Growsonwalls]

4 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

I'm thinking maybe because the show is British? I realize the show is seen by millions of Americans, and owned by an American company, but it is British-produced. As an American, I would fail a test at distinguishing a Manchester (England) accent from a Birmingham accent; likewise, maybe they just don't hear American regional dialects with the specificity we do. And for sure, in all other ways, the still-living British audience doesn't remember the Kennedys with as much detail as we do.

What I find much harder to accept is that the Kennedys would be ignorant of British royal protocol. Like we don't have a State Department?

I think the Kennedys were a well-known international pair. And if the show wants to devote an episode about how they dazzled Buckingham Palace, what was the point of having them in flat "midwestern" accents and portrayed as such bumpkins? I just get annoyed when period dramas so obviously don't do their homework. Jackie's hair was completely off. 

I mean if you google Jackie Kennedy and the Queen there are a bunch of photos:

No matter what Jackie might have said about the Queen in private the body language in these photos is pretty warm.

Also everyone who meets the Queen is given a primer on royal protocol and etiquette. My co-worker's friend was actually invited to BP last year because he spearheaded a special education service in the UK and he was given a primer on the proper protocol. No way the Kennedy's wouldn't have known how to greet other heads of state.

This show sometimes has a "only the Queen really knows how to behave" POV that is annoying.

[Anothermi]

That is a rather unfortunate photo of Jack Kennedy!  He looks like a life-size doll of Howdy Doody. 

OK. I've had my chuckle. Nobody looks good when caught with their eye mid-blink, or perhaps he'd had to take painkillers for his back?

[Growsonwalls]

Here;s a SBS comparison of real life vs. The Crown:

I think The Crown purposefully made Jackie's gown strapless so she'd seem slightly risque and tacky compared to the queen. But in real life that ice blue gown was gorgeous. 

As I said, the show definitely has an "only the Brits know how to behave" POV that is annoying.