S02.E10: Number Three

[OtterMommy]

6 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

It was Randall's car?  Did Randall know? 

I don't know whose car it was, but I would think that Randall would notice that his car was missing when he went looking for Tess.  

[Guest]

Just now, kili said:

We were told Deja was abused and it was by a boyfriend of a foster mother. She told the story when she went to the gala and was hiding in the bathroom. The foster father would beat her with a rolled up fashion magazine.

Thanks, I remembered thinking it was probably foster care abuse but couldn't remember details.

[Lady Calypso]

The only reason I don't think Kevin took off in Randall's car because we saw a shot of Kevin when he first called Randall, and he was clearly driving. So that's why the rental car question has come up. I am planning to rewatch shortly, because there's probably a lot I missed. 

[BlancheDevoreaux]

2 hours ago, deaja said:

I think Kevin just couldn't handle all the emotion - finding out about Kate, Deja, etc.  So he fled.  He just didn't think Tess would sneak into the car.

Randall and Beth made a rash decision to foster and it seems like one of the many things they didn't really discuss is how it would affect their daughters.  

I refuse to see Rebecca as the bad guy in the William/Rebecca/Randall storyline.  Rebecca didn't abandon her child at a firestation; that was William.  She's far from perfect, but she didn't know that William wouldn't fight for custody, would stay sober, etc.  She made a call.

I feel like the writers hate Rebecca and Kevin and are doing everything they can to make us hate them. But I love both of them more than the other characters. Conversely I am over Saint Randall and Saint Jack whom we are clearly supposed to love.

[NeverLate]

24 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

It was Randall's car?  Did Randall know? 

I thought it was his car, and no, I doubt he knew. It happened so fast..

6 minutes ago, BlancheDevoreaux said:

I feel like the writers hate Rebecca and Kevin and are doing everything they can to make us hate them. But I love both of them more than the other characters. Conversely I am over Saint Randall and Saint Jack whom we are clearly supposed to love.

Yes, , yes yes yes yes yes..LOL 

[SongbirdHollow]

1 hour ago, saber5055 said:

I question Randall's stressing "Big house, nice car" to Deja when IMO the important things in life are not material. I also wonder why Deja has been bumped around in foster care her whole life when her mom is articulate, has a NICE CAR! and apartment and obviously a job or other income to buy Deja new clothes (while I shop at Goodwill). Maybe the show didn't want to stereotype drug-addicted street people? Deja is smart, articulate as well, and was not a "normal" teen in that she communicated like an adult. Or not a normal teen in that she communicated period. We were shown no reason why Deja shouldn't go back to her mom. I'm guessing the tuition at Howard is less than Harvard. I'd think Milo would be pleased Randall wants to go there. He still ends up with "Big House, Nice Car."

I don’t think he necessarily meant material things literally but more as a shorthand for being successful in life. Like, encouragement to do her best and make good choices. I think it was a reminder of a previous unseen conversation they may have had. I don’t think he’s that shallow, just enjoying the fruits of his labor. 

[NeverLate]

18 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

The only reason I don't think Kevin took off in Randall's car because we saw a shot of Kevin when he first called Randall, and he was clearly driving. So that's why the rental car question has come up. I am planning to rewatch shortly, because there's probably a lot I missed. 

You are probably correct, DH takes note of license plate etc, I otoh do not..

[Gracie615]

Truthfully, the person to be there for Kevin is his mother. She was there for Jack when they went through his addiction problems and she will be there for her son. I always remember the sad time when Kevin was near drowning and no one was noticing him. Did he never say anything about it? Do you think that is when he developed his dislike for Randall? Can't say I would blame him for being resentful of the love and attention the parents seem to have showered on Randall.

[ClareWalks]

A throwaway "you look horrible" or whatever by Randall to Kevin isn't the same as recognizing that something is really wrong and expressing concern. Nobody has really asked Kevin what's wrong or even "are you okay?" Looks like that pool near-drowning nobody noticed has been a theme.

[wilnil]

13 hours ago, bros402 said:

He can't be in Alpine - when they showed the kid, the sign on the door said Essex County Social Services.

I think he is near Montclair - it's a rich area, close enough to the city for Randall to commute (Train there, too, can go to Newark, then PATH to get to Wall St.) - but it is only, what, 25 minutes from Newark? Maybe Millburn? But still only like 20-25 minutes away. Maybe North Caldwell? The issue with Essex county is that it isn't a big county - you can go from Elizabeth (sure, a tiny bit outside of Essex, but right at the border) to Fairfield in, what, 40 minutes?

I don't know enough about real-life foster child placements in NJ to know whether kids can actually be placed in counties outside their own, but in the This Is Us writers' room, apparently they can. I double-checked my recollection, and Randall definitely lives in Alpine. FWIW, Deja also was from Newark.

[Pallas]

4 hours ago, Gracie615 said:

I always remember the sad time when Kevin was near drowning and no one was noticing him. Did he never say anything about it?

Oh he did: something furious, earnest and hilarious. At the pool, to Jack: "You're always so busy trying to make Kate feel she's not too fat, and mom's always so busy trying to make Randall feel he's not...too adopted, and meanwhile, 'Where's Kevin?' Oh wait, I know: 'Kevin's dead!'"

A great moment. Jack apologized fulsomely to Kevin, telling him that he was right, that it should never, ever have happened, and would never happen again. We saw at the end of "Number One" that the day ended with all five Pearsons playing catch with a toy football in the pool. 

4 hours ago, Gracie615 said:

Truthfully, the person to be there for Kevin is his mother. 

Yes. Of course if Kevin had shown up at her house instead of Randall's, he'd have found only Miguel telling him that Rebecca was in LA with Kate, who'd lost the baby...

And too bad, too. Because Miguel would have been in exactly the right place to see immediately that Kevin was a mess, and get to the bottom of it. And not only because Miguel had time on his hands and no crisis of his own. Miguel was Jack's colleague and best friend; Jack drank at the office and probably, at lunch, and very quickly before going home. Miguel saw Jack drunk more often than anyone in Jack's family ever did. And he was likely more aware: on some level, Jack probably wanted someone to know. Like Kevin.  

[pianogirl73]

I have the unpopular opinion of not liking Jack when he was in the car on the way home with Randall. I feel like he was naive to think that Randall did not encounter problems, and should have been more encouraging of him going to Howard where he was clearly comfortable. I felt like he was being manipulative by tabling the conversation. 

Also, I have never screamed at a TV show the way I did when Tessa popped up in the back seat of Kevin's car. I was so relieved when he was pulled over. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, Pallas said:

Oh he did: something furious, earnest and hilarious. At the pool, to Jack: "You're always so busy making Kate feel she's not too fat, and mom's always so busy Randall feel he's not...too adopted, and meanwhile, 'Where's Kevin?' Oh wait, I know: 'Kevin's dead!'" 

The lyrics from Taylor Swift's recent single:

Edited November 29, 2017 by Ms Blue Jay

[Clanstarling]

11 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

Along these lines I was thinking that of the three, Randall (despite his intensity/perfectionism) has emerged as the most 'whole' adult and I was able to see why from this episode.  He had a very positive, life-affirming brief road trip with his father shortly before Jack died.  Kevin had some strife with him at that time and Kate apparently has guilt, but Randall doesn't have as much baggage weighing him down in that regard. 

Randall is the only one who has been in a long term relationship, and Beth is a rock. I think that makes a lot of difference.

11 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

He said he was clean and had a good job, and only had $20 on him.  I just figured he probably had a bus pass since that's how we'd seen him travel in the past.  Probably took a bus home.  Or went to an ATM.

I'm not sure how far you could get on $20, but there is always the alternate mode of transportation - your feet. It seems from what we've seen, that William would be pretty accustomed to walking, even if he did take the bus a lot.

5 hours ago, Jillybean said:

I couldn't figure out why Kevin left in the first place. He just got there and presumably came to ask Randall for help. Yes he walked into an unexpected scene, but why leave?

Re his rental car, I figure he got that when he flew in from LA for the high school award. 

I think he was ready to talk, but the moment passed in all the turmoil. So he left.

 

33 minutes ago, pianogirl73 said:

I have the unpopular opinion of not liking Jack when he was in the car on the way home with Randall. I feel like he was naive to think that Randall did not encounter problems, and should have been more encouraging of him going to Howard where he was clearly comfortable. I felt like he was being manipulative by tabling the conversation. 

Also, I have never screamed at a TV show the way I did when Tessa popped up in the back seat of Kevin's car. I was so relieved when he was pulled over. 

I wouldn't go so far as to say I didn't like Jack, but it did trouble me. First he used the "you'll make the right decision, you always do" which is often parent speak for "the decision I want you to make" (especially in regards to Randall, who tries very hard to please his parents). And then his speech about balance, which was a pretty good speech, ignored the fact that being at Howard would probably give Randall some balance - which he's not had his life. Seems to me, seeing your son look so happy and calm, and feeling included, you'd encourage him to go to Howard. It's not like it's a second rate school.  And for goodness sake, the Ivy's aren't all there is to education.

The scene at the Wall was beautiful, but I personally don't think Jack said a thing about his brother off screen. That would be a pretty stunning revelation, and Randall didn't seem particularly stunned. 

Edited November 29, 2017 by Clanstarling

[wallofsound]

I don’t think Randall & Beth should have fostered Deja in the first place.    Their daughters had just suffered a loss with William and also had their parents’ total focus be on their brand new grandfather for however long that whole storyline took.   It’s a lot for kids to have so much change in their home life.  I definitely would not have introduced another big change into their lives on the heels of William, actually two big changes - Deja’s arrival and her departure.    I would have just focused on the girls   

 

Maybe they just just assume their girls are always functioning just perfectly.   Remember they said they had to pretend to act tired when the girls were babies because they were sleeping through the night immediately or some shit like that.   Maybe they are just completely out of touch in their perfect big house with the stocked fridge.  

[Pallas]

7 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

The scene at the Wall was beautiful, but I personally don't think Jack said a thing about his brother off screen. That would be a pretty stunning revelation, and Randall didn't seem particularly stunned.

You're right. Without thinking about it, I'd assumed that the name they traced in the monument (just with their fingertips) to have been Nicky's. Who Randall would already have been told about, with his siblings, sometime earlier. But no, since Jack makes no mention of Nicky when he gives the necklace to Kevin, later that same night. And surely, it's Nicky who Jack's talking about?

I'm sure we'll learn for sure about when and how (or if) when Jack told the siblings about Nicky in the episode where we get Nicky's story.

[possibilities]

3 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

Okay, I'll admit it....I laughed at Randall's iPad joke.  

I did, too! Those kids are a tough audience. I thought you had to be a teenager to be that kind of humor-resistant.

I agree that Kevin needs someone to notice him, but at the same time, he's an adult. He is responsible for himself now, and can't keep the same childlike mentality. The moment where he wanted to ask for help was a tough one to have be so full of other people's problems, and I get how hard that was for him, but at the same time, it isn't true that Kevin's a victim here, and it doesn't mean that his family doesn't love him or that they wouldn't be there for him once asked. It's just how life is; sometimes you don't get what you wanted right away, because other stuff is happening, and often you don't get what you want if you don't ask for it. Kevin chose to leave instead of asking for help. I get it.  He's off balance and freaked out and sick. I'm not entirely unsympathetic to that. But I also don't think it means his family doesn't love him. I just think it was an unfortunate but normal level of momentary chaos and he's been engineering his own isolation for a while now, so the fact that he didn't get instant attention the second he was ready, doesn't get him off the hook for then giving up and driving recklessly, posing a danger to himself and others.

Kevin is essentially pouting and flouncing off-- but doing so in a genuinely reckless and dangerous way, not just a huffy annoying way. Whatever your issues, driving impaired is really not OK, and Kevin needs to face that some of his problems are self-created.

Why is it hard for people to be curious about and sympathetic to Deja's mom, but easy to make excuses for Kevin? We don't know what Deja's mom has been dealing with. I bet she doesn't have a family half as supportive as the Pearsons-- because if she did, one of them would probably be taking care of Deja instead of them having to rely on foster care.

I understand the ambivalence about whether Deja is better off with a mom who has so many issues vs with Randall and Beth, but I think the real solution is to provide more supports for Deja's mom, to help both her and Deja succeed, not to totally sever their bond and pass out congratulations to the lucky and throw away the rest.

It's sad that Randall's offer to help them out will probably go without being taken up, but he brought that on by starting off by insulting and threatening the mom, instead of getting to know her, and establish trust. He could have at least tried bonding with her. As it is, she has even more reason to fear Randall than Rebecca had to fear William. I don't really blame Randall for being clueless, because he's totally new at all this. And it might not have made any difference anyway. But going in threatening someone the first time you meet them is rarely a good idea, and I don't think it's actually that much to expect that someone not do so.

Edited November 30, 2017 by possibilities

[GodsBeloved]

20 hours ago, chocolatine said:

That's right, she surprised him. Kevin wasn't so far gone that he would have deliberately taken Tess on a drive.

And he even noticed she didn't have her seat belt on and made her put it on.

Like most I was nervous that Kevin would crash but I think Tess probably saved his life because I think he would have had she not popped up.

I have enjoyed Deja and hate to see her go. I got misty eyed during her goodbye and felt so bad for Tess and Annie. Them hugs after Deja walked out the door crushed me.

I got so excited when we got the Kevin/Randall scene after the Kate news. I just knew Randall would come through but alas he didn't. I guess I'm suppose to think Randall was too wrapped up in Deja leaving and Kate losing her baby for him not to realize something was very wrong with Kevin especially since he noticed and commented on his drinking.

[Chewy101]

3 hours ago, SongbirdHollow said:

 

4 hours ago, saber5055 said:

I question Randall's stressing "Big house, nice car" to Deja when IMO the important things in life are not material. I also wonder why Deja has been bumped around in foster care her whole life when her mom is articulate, has a NICE CAR! and apartment and obviously a job or other income to buy Deja new clothes (while I shop at Goodwill). Maybe the show didn't want to stereotype drug-addicted street people? Deja is smart, articulate as well, and was not a "normal" teen in that she communicated like an adult. Or not a normal teen in that she communicated period. We were shown no reason why Deja shouldn't go back to her mom. I'm guessing the tuition at Howard is less than Harvard. I'd think Milo would be pleased Randall wants to go there. He still ends up with "Big House, Nice Car."

I don’t think he necessarily meant material things literally but more as a shorthand for being successful in life. Like, encouragement to do her best and make good choices. I think it was a reminder of a previous unseen conversation they may have had. I don’t think he’s that shallow, just enjoying the fruits of his labor. 

 

I think he is just dangling a carrot to give her a dream to get out of the system. Maybe it's aiming too high to think she can have those things, but you aren't suppose to catch the carrot, just strive for it. He just doesn't want her story to be "I grew up in the system and I let it eat me alive." Everything Randall does is overblown. 

Edited November 30, 2017 by Chewy101

[Arcadiasw]

Does Kevin need to wear a sign saying, "I need help."? It's really insane how no one notices something is wrong with Kevin. Even with the morning drinking, Randall can't say, "Are you okay?" I know Randall was preoccupied with Deja and Kate's news but Kevin looked visibly ill. 

Before Randall and Beth take another child in, they should talk to the girls. They live in that house too and should have the option to voice their opinion on bringing another child in and how they feel about the whole experience. 

Calling the babies, Number 1,2, and 3 is okay for babies but when they are old enough to ride a bike, I think the nickname should be retired. 

[Chewy101]

58 minutes ago, possibilities said:

I agree that Kevin needs someone to notice him, but at the same time, he's an adult. He is responsible for himself now, and can't keep the same childlike mentality. The moment where he wanted to ask for help was a tough one to have be so full of other people's problems, and I get how hard that was for him, but at the same time, it isn't true that Kevin's a victim here, and it doesn't mean that his family doesn't love him or that they wouldn't be there for him once asked. It's just how life is; sometimes you don't get what you wanted right away, because other stuff is happening, and often you don't get what you want if you don't ask for it. Kevin chose to leave instead of asking for help. I get it.  He's off balance and freaked out and sick. I'm not entirely unsympathetic to that. But I also don't think it means his family doesn't love him. I just think it was an unfortunate but normal level of momentary chaos and he's been engineering his own isolation for a while now, so the fact that he didn't get instant attention the second he was ready, doesn't get him off the hook for then giving up and driving recklessly, posing a danger to himself and others.

Kevin is essentially pouting and flouncing off-- but doing so in a genuinely reckless and dangerous way, not just a huffy annoying way. Whatever your issues, driving impaired is really not OK, and Kevin needs to face that some of his problems are self-created.

I don't blame the family for not noticing his spiral, but I feel for Kevin, only because he seems to hate himself more than anyone else does, and that leads nowhere. He KNOWS he is behaving like an ungrateful loser, but he can't find a moment in the family dramas to ask for some help. He'd have it if he would.

[Chewy101]

2 minutes ago, Arcadiasw said:

Before Randall and Beth take another child in, they should talk to the girls. They live in that house too and should have the option to voice their opinion on bringing another child in and how they feel about the whole experience. 

Eh, I think if a set of parents want more kids, they never consult the kids and that's normal. Teaching these girls to think about a world that isn't perfectly in their control, and how to love on others is a wonderful lesson. I doubt they are terribly messed up about losing Randall's attention and now getting it back. To me, they are supposed to trust their parents, not be considered equals with their own vote.  Kids get relocated all the time in the military, on the mission field, etc, and it's an incredible life lesson. No life is perfect, but there are worse ones. Personally, I like that they were expected to rise to the occasion and they did. They know their parents had their back, time to help someone else.  

[OtterMommy]

Just now, Arcadiasw said:

Does Kevin need to wear a sign saying, "I need help."? It's really insane how no one notices something is wrong with Kevin. Even with the morning drinking, Randall can't say, "Are you okay?" I know Randall was preoccupied with Deja and Kate's news but Kevin looked visibly ill. 

I do think the two who came closest (other than the maid) were Kate and Randall.  When Kate last saw Kevin, he wasn't "himself," but he was nowhere near where he has been in the last 3 episodes.  Still, she immediately keyed in on something not being right with Kevin, although she (reasonably, given his state at the time) didn't jump to some sort of addiction story line.  Immediately after she saw him, he left town so she hasn't seen his downward spiral and I got the impression that he hasn't been in much contact with her since leaving LA (not answering phone calls is usually a good indicator of that).

Kevin was much worse off when Randall saw him, and it seemed to me that Randall definitely picked up on it.  However, he had just said goodbye to Deja, had just heard that Kate had had a miscarriage, and had Tess and Amy roaming around.  Randall, as we've seen, doesn't handle too much at once well and while he was worried about Kevin, I think he was both preoccupied and more concerned about Kate *right then.*  I can almost see him thinking, "I have to be there for my girls, who are hurting.  I have to be there for Kate, who just lost a baby.  I have to be here for Kevin, who is obviously messed up, but right now he's safe in my kitchen and I can talk to him in 5 minutes when I get off the phone with Kate and after I've checked on my daughters."

There are a lot of people who I blame for not picking up on Kevin's...whatever this is (looking at you, Sophie...), but Kevin's family--in this case Kate and Randall--are not in that group of people.

[debraran]

17 minutes ago, Arcadiasw said:

Does Kevin need to wear a sign saying, "I need help."? It's really insane how no one notices something is wrong with Kevin. Even with the morning drinking, Randall can't say, "Are you okay?" I know Randall was preoccupied with Deja and Kate's news but Kevin looked visibly ill. 

Before Randall and Beth take another child in, they should talk to the girls. They live in that house too and should have the option to voice their opinion on bringing another child in and how they feel about the whole experience. 

Calling the babies, Number 1,2, and 3 is okay for babies but when they are old enough to ride a bike, I think the nickname should be retired. 

Yes, that was bizarre, re the bikes. They really seem to like that theme in the show of giving them numbers.

I find it hard that no one sees Kevin as he is, I bet Randall's girls do more than anyone. If they didn't make him shaky, pale, tired and about to jump out of his skin, I'd say fine, but they are siblings and just apathetic. Maybe now they will finally see him and Tess can inform her Dad how badly he was acting. Kevin's never been my favorite but I feel for the pain of being invisible.

And someone has to tell Randall and Beth that fostering a child isn't usually permanent and if they want to adopt, they should look into that. They should also make it a family decision and not a project of the month because they have a nice home. These are real people with real issues and his daughter's are affected too.   A baby effects the family but not quite in the same way. I hope that is brought out more next year. That little boy might just become a permanent actor on the show.

Edited November 30, 2017 by debraran

[tennisgurl]

1 hour ago, wallofsound said:

Maybe they just just assume their girls are always functioning just perfectly.   Remember they said they had to pretend to act tired when the girls were babies because they were sleeping through the night immediately or some shit like that.   Maybe they are just completely out of touch in their perfect big house with the stocked fridge.  

Yeah, I think this could become an issue down the line. It seems like, because the girls are so sweet and well adjusted, Beth and Randall arent thinking so much about how all this loss in such a short amount of time will affect them in the long term. Just because they're well adjusted now doesn't mean they dont have problems that need dealing with, or will in the future. I mean, Jack and Rebecca didn't spend so much time dealing with Kevin's problems because they thought he was doing fine as compared to the other kids, and look how well that turned out...

[chocolatine]

3 hours ago, Pallas said:

Oh he did: something furious, earnest and hilarious. At the pool, to Jack: "You're always so busy making Kate feel she's not too fat, and mom's always so busy Randall feel he's not...too adopted, and meanwhile, 'Where's Kevin?' Oh wait, I know: 'Kevin's dead!'"

Actually, he said "you're always so busy making sure Kate doesn't eat too much and Randall's not too adopted." Kevin never addresses Kate's weight directly. In the pilot, even after Kate point blank told him "tell me to lose the damn weight," he balked. In the 20s episode, he mentioned the eating, but not the massive weight gain. In the Halloween flashback, he told Jack that the boy Kate had a crush on didn't like her back, but he stopped short of saying that it was because of her weight and instead said it was because the boy was very popular. He's always very delicate with her feelings.

Edited November 30, 2017 by chocolatine

[VoicePlaya]

10 hours ago, elle said:

Where was Annie at the end of the episode?  Was it too much for a quick scene of a parent asking one child where the other one was?  It was as if she disa

Annie was there. She showed up while Beth was on the phone and went over to hug Randall. 

[tribeca]

Jack tells Randall about looking at the wrong kid.   Randall is so focused on Deja that he misses his other daughter is hurting.   

Randalls two young children sure knew something was wrong with Kevin.  That was why it surprised me that Tess was in the car.  Wow I watched the last few minutes with my hands over my eyes.  Intense! 

 

Does anyone think the little boy at the end of will be adopted by Toby and Kate ?

[J-Man]

It always annoys me in movies and TV shows when in dream or fantasy sequences, characters assume knowledge that they don't actually have. For example: If a character fantasizes about how another character would look when naked, it always turns out to be exactly the same way when he or she actually sees that character naked in real life. Obviously there's no easy way around this, but it's still unrealistic.

So in this episode, we had young William fantasizing about Randall's life events, and with the characters of the three kids and Jack appearing exactly as they did in real life, when he's never actually seen any of them. Maybe we're just supposed to accept it as poetic license, and the writers'/director's shorthand.  I guess I'm just too picky.

[ChicksDigScars]

2 hours ago, GodsBeloved said:

And he even noticed she didn't have her seat belt on and made her put it on.

 

 

Maybe I’m looking too hard for clues and thinking that everything is an anvil leading to Jack’s demise, but Kevin having his first thought being to tell Tess to put her seatbelt on, made me think of the earlier scene of Jack and Randall leaving Howard. Randall very happily and deliberately clicked his belt on. Jack watched him do it and did not do the same. It seemed like an anvil, just as mentioning that they had to hit the road because Kate sent Jack a page that something was wrong with the dog. That will come up later. 

 

What if the fire is a head fake. Kevin’s first thought being to “put your seat belt on,” because he knows that he lost a father that never wore his. The closeup of Kate and the dog in the beginning, and the page later, and Kate claims that she killed her father.  We find out that later on, Kate freaked out about the dog again, Jack rushed to help the dog, or rushed the dog to the vet, dies on a crash because he wasn’t wearing a seat belt. The fire is a distraction.  Or, the dog is injured in the house fire, Jack rushes him to the vet to calm a hysterical Kate, and crashed on the way. So, Jack didn’t die in the fire, but the fire did have something to do with his eventual death. Shitty day all around for the Pearson’s. 

Yeah, maybe I should stop thinking that everything is a hint.

[ChromaKelly]

4 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

The lyrics from Taylor Swift's recent single:

LOL! I thought of the Kevin - he's dead line first few times I heard this song!

[ChicksDigScars]

23 minutes ago, J-Man said:

It always annoys me in movies and TV shows when in dream or fantasy sequences, characters assume

So in this episode, we had young William fantasizing about Randall's life events, and with the characters of the three kids and Jack appearing exactly as they did in real life, when he's never actually seen any of them. Maybe we're just supposed to accept it as poetic license, and the writers'/director's shorthand.  I guess I'm just too picky.

 

I took it as Randall fantasizing what his life would have been like if William had been there the whole time, during the monumental times of his life. But your point stands. How would Randall know what a young William looked like. Only Rebecca knows that.  I guess you could say that Randall was using his imagination based on what older William looked like, to fantasize about what he was like as a younger man, and how wonderful it would have been to have Jack, Rebecca AND William around, and getting along.  After thinking about this, he decided to give Deja up without a fight, but floated the suggestion to her mother that they could still be a part of her life...which she shot down. 

[Rae Spellman]

10 hours ago, JoBeth70 said:

I loved this episode.

That said, one thing is bugging me and I'm hoping you social workers can tell me: would the foster care system allow the birth parent to pick up her child at the home of the family she's been living with? I thought they'd keep such things as Deja's location confidential. Any thoughts?

Foster parents taking children to visit their parents is more common. But, depending on why the child is in foster care, the age of the child, and the foster parent's comfort with the bio parent knowing where they live, a parent might visit the foster home. The question I have about this situation is "where are their people?" Extended family. Family friends. A former coach or neighbor.  Deja's a good kid. Her mother wasn't depicted as that bad. I would think someone in their circle would take her in so she doesn't have to be in and out of foster care. Whenever possible we place kids with relatives or at least someone who has a pre-existing relationship with the child. 

8 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

Deja excelling with her science project and giving a shout-out to "foster dad" Randall.

Deja's goodbye and her choosing to hug Randall...his tearing up and her seeing him tear up for her. Just beautiful.

While outcomes for foster youth as a group are absolutely terrible, I'd bet on Deja turning out at least okayish. She's a smart kid. She went from being scared of Randall to telling him that even though she wanted to go home that she still enjoyed living with him. Also, I wouldn't underestimate how much of an impact being accepted by an intact, successful black family might have on how Deja sees herself and what she believes she can have. Also, Deja's mom clearly loves her. She went back for her child immediately. Just like she told Randall she would. It's possible that Deja's mom might decide to allow the Pearsons to stay in Deja's life. 

8 hours ago, Jeddah said:

To paraphrase the social worker, that’s what they signed up for. In foster care, reunification is always the goal. Every foster parent should know that. It was arrogant to think they could overrule that by bullying the social worker. Deja’s mom being calmed down by Deja is nowhere near enough to have her parental rights terminated. She clearly has a relationship with Deja. She is not a “womb donor.”

In CA an attorney would be assigned to represent Deja. The social worker, attorney, and judge would all ask Deja what she wanted. Also, the standard for returning a child to their parent is much, much lower than leaving the child with someone other than the parent. Minimum sufficient level of care. 

Randall's trip to Howard made me wonder what would have been if I'd gone that route. Jack seemed as afraid of losing Randall to Howard as Rebecca was of losing Randall to William.

[Guest]

I thought Randall did go to Howard and met Beth there?

I think  Debra Jo Rupp looks fabulous.

I think Randall and Beth are so annoying in their speechifying, self-righteous modes.  And they've used that "I'm not done!  Ok, now I'm done," thing before.  Not cute.  Nauseating.  

Ghost William's very crooked cannula was driving me insane.  

Nice spare bedroom there.  Why was William taking the girl's bedroom?  Or did they cover that already by saying Beth gave up her office for Deja?  

[BoogieBurns]

In the HBCU world, Howard, Spellman, and Morehouse are the black Ivy League. Howard is a hard school to get in. It's plenty to be proud of. I didn't get in.

Had an annoying conversation with a friend who also loves this show after this episode. She goes, "I bet Randall went to Howard. Where else would he have met Beth?" I dryly replied, "Harvard." 

Beth is a smart girl, it would not surprise me if they both went to Harvard. But I don't think we know where they went. She is from DC, so it tips us a bit towards Howard. Still, smart black girls go to Harvard. It happens every day. Ask Yara Shahidi and Malia Obama. (If you do ask them, could you tell me what they say? I really wanna be their friend!)

[Drumpf1737]

Okay did I miss something, what difference does it make what car Kevin drove away?  Why should I care? 

Why is Tess a "brat" and not precocious?

"Big house, fancy car" is relative. If you grow up in a one bedroom apartment with your single mom, a two-bedroom condo bought with your own money is a palace. As one who grew up in similar circumstances to Deja, I look back at my childhood friends and realize not many of them had dreams. The kids I went to high school with couldn't fathom getting on a plane, let alone going to Paris.  I did though, I dreamed it and I did it. While many don't make it out, the ones that do typically know that there's more to the world than their block AND black people exist and are welcome there. Deja believing that it's possible for her to have "big house, fancy car" puts her ten steps ahead of her peers.

[bros402]

9 hours ago, wilnil said:

I don't know enough about real-life foster child placements in NJ to know whether kids can actually be placed in counties outside their own, but in the This Is Us writers' room, apparently they can. I double-checked my recollection, and Randall definitely lives in Alpine. FWIW, Deja also was from Newark.

I think they can be placed outside of the county - but they prefer someone inside the county for fostering.

I can't imagine that kid wouldn't be placed super quickly given his age and cuteness. Even Alpine to Newark is only 40 minutes, which isn't *that* far

[debraran]

I wonder if they will replay this scene in a flashback? I agree with Chrissy Metz, it would have been nice to see it and have a little less mystery and more on character development.  She said in an interview:

There was a scene that was cut from the immersion camp where she went to see a therapist. I loved that scene desperately, and I guess it was cut for time or whatever, but maybe it was too much explanation of what’s going on and too many clues. But yeah, there’s such a fine line in how to play that, and it’s such a huge storyline, and people are so madly in love with Jack, as they should be. I didn’t want to be a victim, but I wanted there to be empathy, and I wanted there to be an explanation.

I think that is when the show turned a bit, the "Jack" phenomenon happened and it took them a little back, the love shown for the character. Time will tell if there is a let down after the death is shown, but it's odd because he is dead, has been since day one, it's all showing the death that has caused the interest. He is on for 3 seasons at least so there must be more flashbacks to come but I suppose it will be less. To go back before the death can be a nice memory of a Christmas, etc. but it will take on a different aura. I think there will be more filling in the 20's although that's the age they seem the most awkward, making them not teens but not 37.

[Arcadiasw]

10 hours ago, Chewy101 said:

Eh, I think if a set of parents want more kids, they never consult the kids and that's normal. Teaching these girls to think about a world that isn't perfectly in their control, and how to love on others is a wonderful lesson. I doubt they are terribly messed up about losing Randall's attention and now getting it back. To me, they are supposed to trust their parents, not be considered equals with their own vote.  Kids get relocated all the time in the military, on the mission field, etc, and it's an incredible life lesson. No life is perfect, but there are worse ones. Personally, I like that they were expected to rise to the occasion and they did. They know their parents had their back, time to help someone else.  

Randall and Beth will have the final say and do what they want. There’s no question about that but when you plan to adopt or take in a foster child, I think you should talk to the other kids in the house. I never said they should vote on the matter of adopting or fostering but let them voice their opinion, and as parents, Beth and Randall can answer any questions and concerns their daughters may have. Tess’ confession in the car is a sign something isn’t right and there’s a lack of communication between her and her parents.

I would’ve liked to have seen the confrontation from Beth and Deja’s Mom from the beginning and not the middle where they were arguing. It could’ve started mild and then escalated. Also, Randall told Deja’s Mom she will have to go through him to get her daughter back. What parent wouldn’t be on the defensive if someone told them that? Maybe if Randall hadn’t said that, Deja’s Mom would’ve gone through the normal channels of getting her daughter back.

[Blakeston]

10 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

There are a lot of people who I blame for not picking up on Kevin's...whatever this is (looking at you, Sophie...), but Kevin's family--in this case Kate and Randall--are not in that group of people.

Agreed. The two medical professionals (Sophie and Charlotte) who spent a significant amount of time with him have no excuse.

But Randall handled things pretty well when he talked to Kevin. He pointed out that it was too early to be drinking, and that Kevin looked terrible. And Kevin's response was to make excuses, and reassure Randall that he was okay. Randall was still clearly concerned, and urged him to get some sleep. He had no way to know that Kevin was about to skip town.

[Mrs. DuRona]

8 hours ago, ChicksDigScars said:

It seemed like an anvil, just as mentioning that they had to hit the road because Kate sent Jack a page that something was wrong with the dog.

Kate paged them because of Kevin's injury on the field, not because something was wrong with the dog.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, BoogieBurns said:

In the HBCU world, Howard, Spellman, and Morehouse are the black Ivy League. Howard is a hard school to get in. It's plenty to be proud of. I didn't get in.

Had an annoying conversation with a friend who also loves this show after this episode. She goes, "I bet Randall went to Howard. Where else would he have met Beth?" I dryly replied, "Harvard." 

Beth is a smart girl, it would not surprise me if they both went to Harvard. But I don't think we know where they went. She is from DC, so it tips us a bit towards Howard. Still, smart black girls go to Harvard. It happens every day. Ask Yara Shahidi and Malia Obama. (If you do ask them, could you tell me what they say? I really wanna be their friend!)

I wasn’t suggesting Beth couldn’t have gone to Harvard.  Just that I thought it had been said they met at Howard.  

And Harvard grads even in fiction tend to drop the fact regularly.   I feel like the writers would’ve been inserting that word into their “ain’t we the cutest” banter by now.  

6 hours ago, Drumpf1737 said:

Okay did I miss something, what difference does it make what car Kevin drove away?  Why should I care? 

Why is Tess a "brat" and not precocious?

"Big house, fancy car" is relative. If you grow up in a one bedroom apartment with your single mom, a two-bedroom condo bought with your own money is a palace. As one who grew up in similar circumstances to Deja, I look back at my childhood friends and realize not many of them had dreams. The kids I went to high school with couldn't fathom getting on a plane, let alone going to Paris.  I did though, I dreamed it and I did it. While many don't make it out, the ones that do typically know that there's more to the world than their block AND black people exist and are welcome there. Deja believing that it's possible for her to have "big house, fancy car" puts her ten steps ahead of her peers.

Didn’t Randall say he had a $300k car?   If Kevin commandeered that for a drunken joy ride it’d be a little different from him just taking his rental car.  

[Superpole2000]

The contrivance of getting the kid into the back seat of Kevin's car was just plain ridiculous. She had no clue where he was going, when he was leaving, how she could secretly get into the car without him knowing, etc. This was just a blatant way to heighten the drama and get Randall/Beth more animated about the DUI...as if we would never be able to comprehend how awful a DUI is unless a kid on the show was put in danger.

The Randall/Beth foster parent storyline bugs me because they clearly seem more excited to adopt than to foster. So why not just do that? When they mentioned getting a lawyer involved to block the parental reunion I just shook my head.

I really hope this was the last time we have to hear the blown fuse (Good job, Babe!), but that house fire isn't going to start itself.

[luna1122]

21 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I frigging hated the whole "big house, fancy car" thing. First because if you are in Deja's position, it is just not that realistic no matter how hard she works. There are a few people who do it but those are the exceptions, not the rule. If she had different parents with money that would go a lot further toward reaching the goal of a big house and fancy car than anything Deja herself can do. Second because why should that be your goal? Just because you've got a big house and a fancy car isn't going to guarantee you happiness. Those are external measures of success. Happiness comes from an internal feeling of satisfaction or contentment. A certain amount of money definitely makes your life easier but you can be just as happy with a modest home and car. The whole deluded American dream thing is distasteful to me especially coming from someone who grew up middle class in a different time encouraging someone living in poverty today. It would work better for me if Randall was going to stay in Deja's life and send her to private schools, pay for her SAT prep courses, extra curricular activities and college applications and then pay for her college. Then maybe you can encourage her to get a big house and fancy car. Although it's still a rather superficial goal, IMO. Better to encourage her to do something she enjoys and also will give her a decent standard of living. She's into math and science? Any STEM path would be excellent for her. Make doing something like that the goal rather than the salary she might receive from it.

That aside, I liked Randall's journey this episode. I think he did the right thing not fighting to take Deja from her mother. I still feel bad for William not being a part of Randall's life though. If it weren't for Rebecca, I think it could have worked to have William around occasionally and still have Jack and Rebecca be his parents. William clearly wanted to be in his life and I don't see how having more than 2 adults care about a child is a bad thing.

Yeah, the whole big house, fancy car thing was elitist and smug and misguided, imo. I get he's trying to motivate her, but that seemed a snotty, snobbish, insulting way to go about it. Lots of folks work really hard and never wind up with those things. The emphasis on the material shit was annoying.

I mostly liked the episode, otherwise. Randall is a big dork and often kind of irriating, and there was, as always, just way too much speechifying and monologue-ing by way too many folks, but the actress who plays Deja has this sweet, dignified kind of gravitas that sells every last one of her scenes, and I'll miss her.

Poor Kevin.

[Clanstarling]

8 hours ago, Drumpf1737 said:

Okay did I miss something, what difference does it make what car Kevin drove away?  Why should I care? 

It's a nit picky detail, which matters if you're into those details. Basically, how did Kevin get to Randall's house in the first place (Uber or rental car?) and if it was an Uber, did he steal Randall's car?

I suppose it would matter to the story line if he stole the car, because Randall's reaction to that would be somewhat different than if it was Kevin's rental.  I'd think the danger to his daughter would be his foremost thought, not the car. Though Kevin stealing the car would be second, and Kevin and his addiction problems would, I think, be once again the last thing he would be concerned about. 

[kili]

Quote

Didn’t Randall say he had a $300k car?   If Kevin commandeered that for a drunken joy ride it’d be a little different from him just taking his rental car.

Randall's car is shown in the episode as he drives the kids and past Deja's house. It's a black Mercedes with a dark grey interior. Kevin's rental car is brown with a light brown interior. It is shown as he calls Randall (just as Deja's Mom and the social worker arrive at the house) and as he drives away. Whatever car Kevin is driving it is not Randall's nor is it likely to be Beth's since he was driving it to their house before they had any clue he was coming. 

Quote

 This was just a blatant way to heighten the drama and get Randall/Beth more animated about the DUI...as if we would never be able to comprehend how awful a DUI is unless a kid on the show was put in danger.

I think having Tess in the car was for two additional reasons. First, it will be used as a further excuse for the family to do nothing about Kevin's problem. He will be the villain and will get lectured by everybody with nobody seeing that he has issues. It will drive him further into isolation, but he has no Miguel-like friend to rescue him. The family is too programmed to expect things from Kevin and criticize him when he fails - nobody seems to see him as a person who has his own needs.

The second purpose was to show us that Tess is unhappy - she was essentially running away. People often comment that Kevin may be called "Number One" but he is often treated as a middle child. Tess was the oldest in her house and was turned into the middle child of her family when Deja was brought in. When the foster story first started, many commented that foster children should be younger than the children in the house to avoid upsetting the birth order.

Like Kevin, I think Tess is feeling tremendous pressure to be the perfect child with no need for emotional support, but she's in turmoil and not feeling she can get her emotional needs met. She's suppressing her emotions because first grandpa was sick, then dad had a nervous breakdown, then dad quit his job, then grandpa died, then mom went back to work, then a new sister came to live with them, then the new sister had issues, then the new sister left and she's a tween who has all the normal tween issues going on too. Since she is perceived by her parents as "doing just fine" and she doesn't want to cause extra strife, she feels she can't ask for support.

I find it interesting that after Deja left, Randall went to see how Beth was doing and to discuss his own feelings. The turmoil caused by Deja leaving clearly had an effect on Tess and Annie, but we aren't shown Randall and Beth talking through things with them. This season, we repeatedly see Tess and Annie spending time with each other and clinging to each other for support. As the older of the two, Tess is probably providing the emotional support for Annie, but who is providing it for Tess? Sure, there could be a lot of scenes we haven't seen, but the show has chosen to not show us those scenes and now we learn that Tess is at the state that she hates her house. I think we'll find out more reasons for that when the show returns. 

[Mldh598]

On 11/29/2017 at 1:02 AM, Spencer Hastings said:

 

Interesting pan to the "Game Over" while Jack is observing his family.  Makes me think his life has come down to days, hours, or even minutes in the 1996/97 timeline. 

Great catch - I didn't notice that at all. This is why I love these boards...everyone has such good observations on these little details! The writers are all about subtle clues, and this is likely one of them.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

It's a nit picky detail, which matters if you're into those details. Basically, how did Kevin get to Randall's house in the first place (Uber or rental car?) and if it was an Uber, did he steal Randall's car?

I suppose it would matter to the story line if he stole the car, because Randall's reaction to that would be somewhat different than if it was Kevin's rental.  I'd think the danger to his daughter would be his foremost thought, not the car. Though Kevin stealing the car would be second, and Kevin and his addiction problems would, I think, be once again the last thing he would be concerned about. 

It's 6 hours from Pittsburgh to Alpine, NJ so an Uber wouldn't be likely.  Not that it's easy to keep track of these geographical details.  Why Kevin didn't fly is odd but I guess that ruins the 'doorstop surprise' and the DUI story.  

I noticed the 'Game Over' and thought it was referring back to Randall's speech about in life, you always get got in the end by your ghosts.  Ghost Jack isn't done with him yet (or any of them).  And probably not Ghost William, either.   But also that it's close to Game Over for them all, as far as the big, happy family of five.  

Edited November 30, 2017 by Guest

[Blakeston]

52 minutes ago, kili said:

I think having Tess in the car was for two additional reasons. First, it will be used as a further excuse for the family to do nothing about Kevin's problem. He will be the villain and will get lectured by everybody with nobody seeing that he has issues. It will drive him further into isolation, but he has no Miguel-like friend to rescue him. The family is too programmed to expect things from Kevin and criticize him when he fails - nobody seems to see him as a person who has his own needs.

The second purpose was to show us that Tess is unhappy - she was essentially running away. People often comment that Kevin may be called "Number One" but he is often treated as a middle child. Tess was the oldest in her house and was turned into the middle child of her family when Deja was brought in. When the foster story first started, many commented that foster children should be younger than the children in the house to avoid upsetting the birth order.

I suspect Tess being in the car will also come into play as a potential roadblock when Beth and Randall try to foster another child. I'm guessing social services will get involved, what with their child being in a car with a drunk driver.

Especially after Randall was so smug about how the social worker should be doing her job.

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, kili said:

I think having Tess in the car was for two additional reasons. First, it will be used as a further excuse for the family to do nothing about Kevin's problem. He will be the villain and will get lectured by everybody with nobody seeing that he has issues. It will drive him further into isolation, but he has no Miguel-like friend to rescue him. The family is too programmed to expect things from Kevin and criticize him when he fails - nobody seems to see him as a person who has his own needs.

I don't know about this.  His issues are his -- the addiction won't be addressed until he himself admits it and seeks treatment.  He can't be rescued.  Kate's long-standing food addiction hasn't been helped by concern.  There's no swooping in and making people better.  Family support, yes.  I don't think Randall is/has been uncaring.  He let his brother live in his house for an extended period of time when he was floundering after quitting his sitcom.  As for diagnosing and forcing him into treatment, that is not on him.

11 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

I suspect Tess being in the car will also come into play as a potential roadblock when Beth and Randall try to foster another child. I'm guessing social services will get involved, what with their child being in a car with a drunk driver.

Especially after Randall was so smug about how the social worker should be doing her job.

Yes, that would be some comeuppance for Randall if Child Welfare pays a visit. 

Edited November 30, 2017 by ShadowFacts