S03.E05: Welcome Back, Charlotte Richards

[MostlyC]

A food chemist is found dead; Lucifer and Chloe's investigation unexpectedly pits them against criminal defense attorney Charlotte Richards; Lucifer makes a shocking discovery that helps with the case.

 

/hums theme to Welcome Back Kotter. 

[janeta]

What a bunch of Ferengis...

[enoughcats]

I think I like this Charlotte better.  And so far, I like the way TPTB are introducing her.

[johntfs]

9 minutes ago, enoughcats said:

I think I like this Charlotte better.  And so far, I like the way TPTB are introducing her.

To be fair, this is the really the first time Charlotte has actually been Charlotte.  While "Mom" cared about Lucifer and the rest of her children, she pretty much considered humans as little more than creatures for her amusement or bugs to be crushed.  Also, yay with Trixie and getting past the Swear Jar.  Again also, I may never eat pudding again.

[CaptainTightpants]

A long slow clap for Tricia Helfer! Once she came clean with Lucifer, that was a powerful performance! I'm liking her way more as Charlotte then as Mum. The storyline is more interesting too. (:

[Jlina]

Huh? Time Warp....all of a sudden Ella is simply quirky and brilliant again. Kind of gave me whiplash but in a very good way. Show is sooo much better without leutinent douche!

[Miss Dee]

I don't mind anything that gets Tom Welling on my screen, including the Lieutenant. But thank "Dad" Ella was dialed way, way back this time.

Hope Dan and Charlotte are able to reconnect. He deserves a win and she seems pretty decent.

Tom Ellis' face as Charlotte kissed him was high entertainment. Although, while I understand why they couldn't go there on television: would the devil really care about banging a hot babe just because his mother used her as a human vessel that one time? I'm thinking that's probably way too conventional for someone who likes to push the boundaries.

I missed Amenadiel.

[Happy Harpy]

The general cast integration issues aren't solved. Still no Linda and this time, no Amenadiel (it did happen last season, though, but the balance was better as a whole).

Yet.

Chloe was back to her real self, no-nonsense, competent and compassionate. She had scenes with Trixie. Yay! And Lucifer had scenes with Trixie. Double yay! Mother flunker (?) LOL.

Ditto Ella. She was a good friend to Dan and I truly appreciated the character for the first time this season.

Dan wasn't a winner, but he wasn't the butt monkey either. He showed his honest and sensitive side and wasn't humiliated in order to prop another character. I'm so rooting for him to win Charlotte back.

I found Mom very entertaining but as self-evident as it may seem, Charlotte is more human so I like her in a different way. Tricia Helfer is truly brilliant in the role and to me, she just fits the show.

In spite of her large amount of screentime, Lucifer and Chloe were the center of gravity of the show again and everything was better for it. They had more scenes as partners, and didn't talk just about the case -even though their discussions ran into circles at times, proof imo that Chloe needs to realize he's actually the Devil. The stalling becomes obvious and it's going to be more and more detrimental to the show imo.

Female characters had scenes together. Ella/Charlotte talked about Dan, but the scene was actually more about them and who they were.  Chloe/Trixie. And even Charlotte/Chloe interacted a bit.

My biggest issue: I was worried that Jackass would be discharged from the hospital early and ruin it all for me.

I'll watch next week (I planned not to, had this one been as bad as the previous episode).

[Gigi43]

Leslie-Anne obviously gets a pass but i don't like having both Amenadiel and Linda missing.

 

Trixie's swearing came out if nowhere, are we to assume she's getting it from Maze? That's a situation  Dan should be involved with. I did like Luci trying to give her the $100. There was a lot of bills in the jar coming from an 8yr old. Kinda of stupid Chloe didn't sit her down and explain why she shouldn't say the words before going to the jar.

 

I got a kick out of Dan and the pudding. Tricia Helfer didn't seem to do her over exaggeration of sentences unnecessarily which annoyed me last season.  I'm interested in how Charlotte will continue to handle it. Hopefully it won't take too long  for Amenadiel to know she's around. 

 

Next weeks show might be one of the stand alone ones because the preview clips were in the comic con trailer that I  think only had those eps in the clips.

Edited October 31, 2017 by Gigi43

[Maelstrom]

OK, this is the show I loved last year. Best episode of the season by far. Though I’m sorry we didn’t get to see Amenadiel, Maze and Linda, the episode was interesting enough that their absences weren’t completely glaring to me. I’m going to need some good scenes with Charlotte and Amenadiel soon, but just focusing on Luci and Charlotte tonight allowed for some really intense scenes.

This new arc for Charlotte looks good. It will be very interesting to get to know the real Charlotte, as opposed to Mum. I really loved her interactions with Lucifer, and especially watching them both struggle with being better.  Also, his reaction when she kissed him was priceless. Now we just need to see Amenadiel and Charlotte meet up.

I highly approve of the return of smart Ella, and her comment to Charlotte about not seeing the light in her anymore was telling. Also glad to see Dan wasn’t completely pathetic tonight, though the loss of his pudding is a rough blow. Stay strong, Dan, stay strong.

[Harry Potter]

Some people don't watch the show because it's nothing like the comics. However, I think it's great that they didn't just start the show with some overpowered character which we know little about like in some marvel /DC movies. 

 

Every season Lucifer is learning more and more humanistic qualities. Today he learned accountability. It's sometimes frustrating because there's tons of lessons before we get action but it's good character development. Although, I wonder how he did not learn these qualities for eons.

 

Hopefully, he realizes he has his own free will and God is giving him chances of redemption (starting over) with the help of all his friends. 

 

One problem: Chloe has feelings for lucifer last season. They kissed, she was shot, Lucy was about to reveal everything. But now she's okay with lucifer not having those feelings anymore and not minding him with all the other girls? He suddenly forced himself to stop having feels for Chloe? =/ 

[GaT]

2 hours ago, Jlina said:

Huh? Time Warp....all of a sudden Ella is simply quirky and brilliant again. Kind of gave me whiplash but in a very good way. Show is sooo much better without leutinent douche!

I hope Ella is staying this way, I don't miss the ditz & we got lots of Trixie, which is always good

I'm a little tired of paranoid Lucifer

I hadn't thought at all about what happened to the real Charlotte & I was confused for a lot of the episode because I thought I remembered her being married & having kids, & it didn't seem like that's how she was living. Then she had that scene when she said she didn't know why her husband had custody of the children & she wasn't allowed to see them & I felt terrible for her. I hope they're going to do something so that she gets her life back.

[Commando Cody]

I still feel nothing for Charlotte. I didn't need to see a Charlotte centric episode. 

It was good to see Trixie again. 

[Bruinsfan]

For all the talk of the Queen of Heaven being a manipulative trickster, Helfer played her really broad, and her lies and manipulations were like a gradeschool kid's. I like the much more subtle take she has on Charlotte this time around, she no longer makes me feel like all the characters listening to her should be going WTF. (Well, except in the gun-waving bit at the end, but clearly everyone did think she was a lunatic in those scenes.)

I also liked that Lucifer seemed to be written as much more mature and having a better understanding of people's motivations and moral complexity rather than as some id-driven alien who was encountering human beings for the first time. Ditto for Chloe, her return to professionalism was welcome. Can Chris Rafferty write the rest of the episodes this season?

[AnimeMania]

I thought the crime portion was stupid. A man makes a poison secret recipe, the company doesn't want to change it because it is cheap and sells well. If the guy threatens the company, either change the recipe or I will tell everybody that the pudding is dangerous. The company would change the recipe without telling anybody since the recipe a secret and they have plenty of money to use proper ingredients. If anybody ever brings a lawsuit against them, testing the product will show there is no poison.

[Ailianna]

I was also bugged by the fact that kidney stones are very treatable, even if they are "golf ball sized" (we've invented surgery, after all).  

I do like seeing Trixie again, of course, and thought that Lucifer might end up talking to her about swearing/loopholes at the end--I thought it was better for Chloe to do it though.  Did miss Maze, but only realized during the previews that we missed Linda.  Not that I don't love her, but there really wasn't a good spot for her here.  Amenadiel I was only thinking of in the scene where Charlotte tried to kiss Lucifer--that he would find it terrifying too, and she wouldn't know why all these hot guys are treating her like a leper.  

I"m not a comics reader, and I'm happier to have characters learning things than starting off all-knowing or all-powerful.  I liked this one and I hope it shows the direction they mean to take this season--but I do miss the absent cast when they aren't around so much.

[Writing Wrongs]

I laughed a lot. 

"Loophole swear words."

"Vat of semen." "Pudding." "I've heard it called that, too."

"..our pudding tastes like crap." "Odd flavor choice."

[snowwhyte]

I was thinking that Charlotte really needed a good therapist and Lucifer should take her to Linda but then I remembered that she put Linda in the hospital when she was possessed so Linda might not want to see her again.

[Ria]

I didn’t care for it at all. The suicide made no sense to me. Goood thing Ella could instantly catch the clue in mere seconds. Stupid but at least she wasn’t immature and ditzy, except for confronting Charlotte over Dan. This isn’t junior high. 

No Linda, Maze or Amenadiel. Always a bad thing. Which also means more Chloe who is the weakest character in the show. 

Liked seeing Lucifer show compassion for Charlotte. I was surprised she wound up in hell though. If guilt sends you there lots of decent people with active consciences will go while sociopaths without a care in the world wouldn’t. 

[Gigi43]

18 minutes ago, Ria said:

 

Liked seeing Lucifer show compassion for Charlotte. I was surprised she wound up in hell though. If guilt sends you there lots of decent people with active consciences will go while sociopaths without a care in the world wouldn’t. 

 

 I didn't get the guilt thing too. Didn't real Charlotte cheat on her husband before Mom took her body? Also being a defense lawyer she may have helped terrible people back out on the streets. Instead of her "I was a good person " she should  have said "I don't think  I was bad enough for hell." I kinda wonder too if Mom being a Hell escapee has to do with Charlotte ending up there.

[johntfs]

15 minutes ago, Ria said:

Stupid but at least she wasn’t immature and ditzy, except for confronting Charlotte over Dan. This isn’t junior high. 

Dan's a friend and Charlotte was treating her friend like shit.

23 minutes ago, Ria said:

If guilt sends you there lots of decent people with active consciences will go while sociopaths without a care in the world wouldn’t. 

I think it's more about unconfronted/unacknowledged guilt/sin.  Even if she didn't consciously accept it, Charlotte knew that much of what she was doing was wrong.  A sociopath might not care that what he's doing is wrong, but he still knows it's wrong.  The worst problem for Charlotte is that right now she's even more likely to go back to Hell because the "changes" she's making are out of fear and self-interest instead of a real desire to do better for its own sake.  It's one reason that as a Christian I despise the "fire and brimstone" style of preaching.  You can't really "scare the Hell" out of people, but you can easily scare them into Hell.

[Mabinogia]

47 minutes ago, Ria said:

Stupid but at least she wasn’t immature and ditzy, except for confronting Charlotte over Dan.

That was about the only thing I liked this ep. Ella was definitely back to her old self this ep. I get they seem to think the sun shines our of Tricia Helfer's ass, and she's decent and all, but I had no need to ever see Charlotte Richards in any form, let alone have her the center of the show. I missed Maze, Linda and Amen. I'm just not into the cop drama side of this show at all, and that was what this ep was, a cop procedural with pretty much nothing else.

Oh, didn't miss the new guy at all. Actually forgot that he wasn't even around.

The previews for next week were like a palette cleanser. Though I did get a lot of work around the house done while this ep was on, so I guess that's good.

[Andrew Wiggin]

Quote

13 hours ago, Gigi43 said:

Trixie's swearing came out if nowhere, are we to assume she's getting it from Maze? That's a situation  Dan should be involved with. I did like Luci trying to give her the $100. There was a lot of bills in the jar coming from an 8yr old. Kinda of stupid Chloe didn't sit her down and explain why she shouldn't say the words before going to the jar.

 

The swearing is not new,the Jar appeart bevor ^^

 

[Loandbehold]

Welcome back, Ella! Fun, a little quirky, but competent. And, watching Amy Garcia do the "eyes watching you" gesture to Tricia Helfer's stomach will always be funny.

Missed Dr. Linda, Amenadude, and, of course, Maze, but got to see some Trixie-Luci interaction. What would have been fun is if Amenadude and Luci had seen Charlotte at the same time, and reacted with a Buffy-Dawn "Moooooommmm." Absolutely did not miss Lt. Douche-Lite. He can stay in the hospital for the rest of the ... series.

[storyskip]

This episode gave me a little bit of whiplash.

The first half, I felt like we were bludgeoned over the head with every writer trope in the book and I was cringing with second hand embarrassment.  Seriously, we all could have played a drinking game of 'drink everytime there is a sitcom trope on screen' and all of us would have been in the hospital with alcohol poisoning.

Then we hit the point where Charlotte tried to 'rekindle' her romance with Lucifer and he was like "Nope!" and the truth came out, and thank Dad things leveled out.  Leveled out and I'd agree with everyone who said the episode felt more like previous seasons than anything we've seen yet for Season 3.

That said I am deeply concerned for this show.  I was talking to Mr. Storyskip about the episode and counted off the full cast of characters as it stands now:

Lucifer, Chloe, Maze, Trixie, Dan, Linda, Amenadiel, Ella, Lt Whatshisname, Charlotte Richards

That's 10 characters in the ensemble.  Unfortunately I've seen FOX do this to countless shows.  They get a show that is popular and they seem to start hiring on more and more "names", bloating the cast until the show sinks under it's own expectations.  Tricia is an amazing actress and she has strong chemistry with the cast but there was no reason to write Charlotte Richards back into season 3, not on top of bringing in the new Lt.  

Ella was brought in out of nowhere, but for a time she worked as a foil to Lucifer and that was good.  But now, with them writing Lucifer as a petulant five year old, Ella's purpose seems to have fallen by the wayside, so she's also written for ... what?  Comedy?  If they're not going to use Ella for her original intended purpose then they'd be better off writing her out.

Let Charlotte and Ella go, that trims the cast back down to eight.  I don't know what we need the Lt to show us about Celestial Chloe that couldn't have been conveyed through one of the already existing characters, but he's here now, so let him do his thing and then show him the door, then they'd be back to the original cast from Season One.  Put the focus back on the original core characters that made the show in the first place and stop all the extraneous "So and So big name is joining the cast of Lucifer!"

[dargosmydaddy]

Death-by-pudding was giving me major Pushing Daisies vibes.

[NeenerNeener]

I'd been wondering since the season started why Tricia Helfer was still listed in the opening credits, since I thought they'd wrapped her story up quite nicely last season with no need to revisit. I'm with storyskip, the cast is bigger than it needs to be right now.

[wilnil]

Given that this is the first time we've seen Charlotte this season, I'm wondering if they kept her listed as a regular just so they could hang on to her for when they wanted to use her. That's probably more expensive than moving her to "recurring cast," but maybe the producers think it's worth it.

[lorbeer]

I think I like Charlotte now.

[CheshireCat]

On ‎31‎.‎10‎.‎2017 at 0:57 AM, Harry Potter said:

Some people don't watch the show because it's nothing like the comics. However, I think it's great that they didn't just start the show with some overpowered character which we know little about like in some marvel /DC movies. 

I had never heard of the comics before the show so I'm glad that they didn't just make a story out of the comics.

 

On ‎31‎.‎10‎.‎2017 at 4:22 AM, AnimeMania said:

I thought the crime portion was stupid. A man makes a poison secret recipe, the company doesn't want to change it because it is cheap and sells well. If the guy threatens the company, either change the recipe or I will tell everybody that the pudding is dangerous. The company would change the recipe without telling anybody since the recipe a secret and they have plenty of money to use proper ingredients. If anybody ever brings a lawsuit against them, testing the product will show there is no poison.

If only it were that simple. It's like Charlotte said, making millions and then having to pay a couple is a lot better than stopping to make millions.

They didn't make a poison recipe. They had two ingredients in the pudding which can be toxic when combined and that's not really far-fetched.

 

21 hours ago, Ailianna said:

I was also bugged by the fact that kidney stones are very treatable, even if they are "golf ball sized" (we've invented surgery, after all).  

But it wasn't the kidney stones which were killing him, it was kidney failure.

 

16 hours ago, Gigi43 said:

 I kinda wonder too if Mom being a Hell escapee has to do with Charlotte ending up there.

Yes, I wondered that, too. The moment she said it, I thought that Hell was the only place Mom could have sent her to. At the same time, she was dad before Mom took over her body, wasn't she?

What I really wanted Lucifer to do was ask who was in charge of Hell now though. I really think they should address that because I'm starting to wonder if Hell really needed a ruler. Seems like it's functioning normally without one.

 

12 hours ago, storyskip said:

That said I am deeply concerned for this show.  I was talking to Mr. Storyskip about the episode and counted off the full cast of characters as it stands now:

Lucifer, Chloe, Maze, Trixie, Dan, Linda, Amenadiel, Ella, Lt Whatshisname, Charlotte Richards

That's 10 characters in the ensemble.  Unfortunately I've seen FOX do this to countless shows.  They get a show that is popular and they seem to start hiring on more and more "names", bloating the cast until the show sinks under it's own expectations.  Tricia is an amazing actress and she has strong chemistry with the cast but there was no reason to write Charlotte Richards back into season 3, not on top of bringing in the new Lt.  

I'd rather give up the Lt than Charlotte, to be honest. I guess, it might be cheaper to have the actors recur instead of having them appear in every episode?

I'm usually against a big cast, too. Normally, there are more than enough stories to tell with the existing characters but I feel that this works on Lucifer. It also seems to give the show more flexibility in terms of story telling and I like that for this show.

 

I absolutely loved this episode. One of my favorites. Felt a lot like S1 Lucifer! Loved the scene at the movie studio. But I so wished that Chloe wasn't there so that Lucifer's wings could have popped open and he could have joined the commercial or something. Couldn't they, at least, have ask Lucifer instead of Chloe why their clothes are still on? That could have been fun!

I also loved the scene between Lucifer and Charlotte. I couldn't have cared less about the case, that seemed to be just backdrop. But Ellis and Helfer really killed it! They are great together and I loved where they went with Charlotte! I want more of that, more of the supernatural stuff, either the subtle or more obvious version, and police work as a backdrop.

[Bruinsfan]

On 10/31/2017 at 10:25 AM, Ria said:

Liked seeing Lucifer show compassion for Charlotte. I was surprised she wound up in hell though. If guilt sends you there lots of decent people with active consciences will go while sociopaths without a care in the world wouldn’t. 

Didn't we find out in early Season 2 that Charlotte had all kinds of shady connections with drug dealers, arms dealers, etc. and Mum was just using them for her own agenda? I wasn't surprised that she'd taken the downward escalator upon dying, I was surprised they remembered that she'd died before being possessed and followed through to the likely results of that. I like that they're having her be so knocked for a loop by the experience—she was down in Hell for months, and it deranged Malcolm Graham after 30 seconds of objective time.

[ProudMary]

What's also interesting is that in Charlotte, we now have another human who seems accepting of the fact that Lucifer is the devil.

[rainsmom]

7 minutes ago, ProudMary said:

What's also interesting is that in Charlotte, we now have another human who seems accepting of the fact that Lucifer is the devil.

Is she? I didn't get that. I didn't get that she recognized anything supernatural in him.

[Gigi43]

1 hour ago, Bruinsfan said:

Didn't we find out in early Season 2 that Charlotte had all kinds of shady connections with drug dealers, arms dealers, etc. and Mum was just using them for her own agenda? I wasn't surprised that she'd taken the downward escalator upon dying, I was surprised they remembered that she'd died before being possessed and followed through to the likely results of that. I like that they're having her be so knocked for a loop by the experience—she was down in Hell for months, and it deranged Malcolm Graham after 30 seconds of objective time.

I'm  going to need  to watch her first episode again but I thought during the original investigation of Charlotte they found out she was an FBI informant for the drug dealers in that episode. She still had a lot of shady clients for Mom to use, but Charlotte was having some kind of limits on her clients. Unless I'm remembering wrong and that was a misdirect in the episode.

 

I think people's reactions to hell and Lucifer is based on who they are. Malcolm was killing to kill Chloe before going to hell, and upon coming back he was still a terrible person  (he also had Amen playing him.) Where as Charlotte may not have been that terrible of a person and if I'm right about being an informant she perhaps has a capacity to change that Malcom didn't have. Linda made a comment about she might go to hell, but over all I think the fact that, while she was freaked out, she didn't go completely crazy upon seeing Lucifer's face means she hasn't done anything terrible.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

4 hours ago, rainsmom said:

4 hours ago, ProudMary said:

What's also interesting is that in Charlotte, we now have another human who seems accepting of the fact that Lucifer is the devil.

Is she? I didn't get that. I didn't get that she recognized anything supernatural in him.

Charlotte doesn't know.  I actually thought that when Charlotte was in the depths of her despair, Lucifer might reveal himself to her by unfurling his wings, and then explain to her that her body had been temporarily possessed and that is why she had all that lost time.  But he didn't, and she knows nothing.

Edited November 1, 2017 by ItCouldBeWorse

[ProudMary]

1 hour ago, rainsmom said:

Is she? I didn't get that. I didn't get that she recognized anything supernatural in him.

 

58 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Charlotte doesn't know.  I actually thought that when Charlotte was in the depths of her despair, Lucifer might reveal himself to her by unfurling his wings, and then explain to her that her body had been temporarily possessed and that is why she had all that lost time.  But he didn't, and she know nothing.

Your opinions are just as valid as mine but I think the implication was there both that she believed she had been in actual hell and that she was talking to--and seeking advice from--the devil.

[CheshireCat]

1 hour ago, ProudMary said:

Your opinions are just as valid as mine but I think the implication was there both that she believed she had been in actual hell and that she was talking to--and seeking advice from--the devil.

I don't think they meant for her to be quite there yet. Open to the idea, yes, having it accepted as the truth, no. But it did occur to me during the episode, that she might be the next human to find out the truth.

I wonder if they'll have an episode/episodes with her and Dr Linda. Linda's reaction to her could be interesting to explore but it could also be interesting as one woman knows and the other seems to prefer that over the idea that she's gone completely insane.

That said, another thought occured; maybe Charlotte wasn't actually in Hell, maybe it were Mom's memories? Mom wouldn't remember much else other than her life in Hell, would she? Maybe being open to the idea that Lucifer is the devil and she might have been in Hell is because she was possessed by Mom and maybe does have some of Mom's memories lingering?

 

9 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Not a bad episode, but I really do miss Maze.  I think she is the most interesting and underutilized character on this show.   If she was spun off on to her own series, I would watch it in a heart beat.

Funny, I usually like shows with strong female characters and think they're underrepresented but Lucifer is a show I'd watch with close to no or, on occasion, no females. I like Dr Linda and Maze but I didn't miss either in this episode and if Chloe hadn't been there, I wouldn't have been sad either.

 

ETA: I didn't see much difference in Ella. She was professional in some scenes (Dan eating pudding in the lab? Seriously?) and a bit childish in others. (The talk with Charlotte, slapping the pudding out of Dan's hand which there was absolutely no need for. She could have just told him he better stop eating it. It made me roll my eyes).

Edited November 1, 2017 by CheshireCat

[theatremouse]

13 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

The moment she said it, I thought that Hell was the only place Mom could have sent her to. At the same time, she was dad before Mom took over her body, wasn't she?

I don't think Mom sent her anywhere (or would have means or need to). Charlotte was murdered, went to hell because she died, and before her body got cold Mom zapped herself into the suddenly-available body. If Charlotte had not already died (and thus, in theory, gone wherever she was going to when that happened) Mom would not have been able to insert herself into that body. What we got in this episode was confirmation that even though her body got reused after the fact, she still had already gone to hell. What we don't know is why she didn't resume being dead after Mom was extricated from her body. Although my personal suspicion is "show likes actress".

[CheshireCat]

1 hour ago, theatremouse said:

I don't think Mom sent her anywhere (or would have means or need to). Charlotte was murdered, went to hell because she died, and before her body got cold Mom zapped herself into the suddenly-available body. If Charlotte had not already died (and thus, in theory, gone wherever she was going to when that happened) Mom would not have been able to insert herself into that body. What we got in this episode was confirmation that even though her body got reused after the fact, she still had already gone to hell. What we don't know is why she didn't resume being dead after Mom was extricated from her body. Although my personal suspicion is "show likes actress".

Amenadiel was able to bring Malcom back from the dead. Charlotte was with Mom, Goddess of Creation and Lucifer, Lord of Hell, when she was revived. Maybe it happened automatically because of who they are?

That said, I would love to know who, why, how. I remember that Mom complained about the bodies she inhabited before Charlotte but I don't remember what her issue with them was. If they were still in a state in which it was possible, it would be nice to know if they returned from the dead after Mom left the body.

Edited November 2, 2017 by CheshireCat

[Ria]

I like the actress but I don’t think there is any need for Charlotte on the show now that Mom is gone. Maze and Amenadiel have longtime relationships to Lucifer and are part of his world. Chloe is the other lead and Dan, Trixie and Ella are part of her world. Even the Lt., dull as he is, has a role in the police dept. Dr. Linda’s importance to Lucifer is obvious and has become close to several other characters. But I don’t see what Charlotte brings or where she fits. Any personal journey she’s on will only take away from the main story and characters. 

[wilnil]

53 minutes ago, CheshireCat said:

Amenadiel was able to bring Malcom back from the dead. Charlotte was with Mom, Goddess of Creation and Lucifer, Lord of Hell, when she was revived. Maybe it happened automatically because of who they are?

That said, I would love to know who, why, how. I remember that Mom complained about the bodies she inhabited before Charlotte but I don't remember what her issue with them was. If they were still in a state in which it was possible, it would be nice to know if they returned from the dead after Mom left the body.

My thinking after the S2 finale aired was that Mom restored Charlotte to the body as she left our universe so Lucifer wouldn't be left standing over a dead body at what was already a crime scene. But someone else brought up the idea that, if Charlotte's soul wasn't still in the body all along, they may have rejoined when Mom used the body to follow Lucifer to Hell. Either way, though, if Charlotte's soul was ever in the body while Mom was using it, she obviously wasn't perceiving anything, and that kind of long-term sensory deprivation itself could be pretty hellish. 

Of the first two bodies Mom tried, she walked the first guy into traffic (he was an overweight guy who'd just collapsed and died on the sidewalk, IIRC), and the second was a gangbanger who'd gotten shot in a gunfight; when she entered and healed him, someone just shot him again as soon as he got up.

[tennisgurl]

I definitely thought this was an improvement on the last few weeks, mainly because everyone seemed to be basically in character, and the case of the week was actually surprising, but basically made sense. Lucifer was more of a cheerful hedonist than a bitter asshole, Chloe was competent and more open minded, Dan was competent but funny, and Ella was likable but in a more mature, intelligent way. 

Charlotte Richards was an interesting character, and I would be alright with seeing her again. On the other hand, I hope they dont overuse her, as we already have a pretty large supporting cast, and we dont really need a whole bunch of new characters. 

I missed Maxz, Linda, and Amenadiel quite a bit. But we did get Trixie, so thats a plus!

[thuganomics85]

Much better then last week.  Lucifer was back to being more a delightful asshole instead of a bitter asshole, Ella was toned way back down to be likable again, Dan actually had some good moments and wasn't just a punching bag (although he does find out that his favorite pudding is poisonous!), and Chloe was back to be a good detective, instead of Price's new project or whatever the hell he is planning.  Even got a Trixie appearance which was great, although I kind of suspect that the original plan would have been Maze being in Lucifer's place, because I feel like it would have been slightly more realistic if it was Maze who was finding ways for Trixie to avoid the swear jar.

So, the Charlotte Richards returns.... or, really, the real Charlotte Richards arrives.  Interesting that she was apparently in Hell this entire time and understandably does not want to go back.  A little unsure if they really need to keep her as a regular, but I'm curious to see where she and Lucifer go from here (plus her and Dan!), and Tricia Helfer was pretty awesome in the last few scenes.

Boo to no Amenadiel and Linda.  I hope this isn't a case where they have too many characters and not enough stories.  As much as I love Lucifer himself, it really is the entire ensemble together that shines.

The case of the week did make my head hurt at times, but I at least didn't predict it, since the possibility of suicide never crossed my mind.  I thought it was going to be the security guard.

[johntfs]

The show has a large cast of regulars/semi-regulars.  Lucifer, Chloe, Dan, Trixie, Maze, Linda, Amenadiel, Ella, Pierce and Charlotte Richards.  One thing I like is that they've figured out that not every single character has to be in every single episode.  Chloe and Lucifer clearly will be since they're the true leads.  However they can switch things up a lot with all these characters so we won't necessarily tire of them.  As awesome as Maze, Linda and Trixie are, if they were in every single episode we'd probably start to tire of them.  Sometimes less is more.

[Rushmoras]

Well, at least they made Charlotte's character somewhat believable after all she's been through during her "absence". Other than that this episode was really really tame. I don't know how to feel about it. Is it because it airs on FOX at 8 PM or something? But, I don't know, all of this season feels a bit off to me.

[Loandbehold]

20 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

ETA: I didn't see much difference in Ella. She was professional in some scenes (Dan eating pudding in the lab? Seriously?) and a bit childish in others. (The talk with Charlotte, slapping the pudding out of Dan's hand which there was absolutely no need for. She could have just told him he better stop eating it. It made me roll my eyes).

She wasn't fan-girly like she has been towards Lt. Duche-lite nor like she was towards the comic. I found knocking the pudding away from Dan to be funny and back to her quirky self. As for the confrontation with Charlotte, she was sticking up for a friend who had been hurt by this person. For me, this was a huge improvement over the other episodes shot this season (she was fine in the Maze-centered episode, but that was filmed last season).

[storyskip]

3 hours ago, johntfs said:

The show has a large cast of regulars/semi-regulars.  Lucifer, Chloe, Dan, Trixie, Maze, Linda, Amenadiel, Ella, Pierce and Charlotte Richards.  One thing I like is that they've figured out that not every single character has to be in every single episode.  Chloe and Lucifer clearly will be since they're the true leads.  However they can switch things up a lot with all these characters so we won't necessarily tire of them.  As awesome as Maze, Linda and Trixie are, if they were in every single episode we'd probably start to tire of them.  Sometimes less is more.

In theory I completely agree with this sentiment.

In practice what seems to happen in this scenario ( I've seen it from West Wing, Criminal Minds, Sleepy Hollow just to name a few) is that the fan base ends up splitting into factions.  We're already seeing it here, people are saying things like "hated this episode not enough X, Y or Z" and then the conversations become, "why did X say that to A, it should have been Z's line" and the fans start to sour on each other and get more and more sour towards the show until it reaches a point where the writers can't seem to write anything, because they literally can no long please everyone and the fans are so bitter they jump on any and every little fault, episode after episode.

When the cast was smaller the writers had the ability to thread in the characters and play off the different combinations, which as fans we all enjoyed.  If Maze didn't have a scene with Trixie, it was great that she had a scene with Linda or Chloe. If Amenadiel didn't have a scene with Lucifer, it was still awesome because he spent time with Dan.  But now with a bloated cast, instead of moving around all the pieces into different and fun configurations, pieces have to be left out entirely and then the "well this episode sucked because of no X"

[DEL901]

Just wanted to say how much I liked them tying this episode back to Dan's love of pudding.  It was mentioned a number of times last season, especially when Lucifer kept stealing it.  Nice how it all tied in.  Poor Dan.  Yet another love gone from his life.

[CheshireCat]

1 hour ago, storyskip said:

When the cast was smaller the writers had the ability to thread in the characters and play off the different combinations, which as fans we all enjoyed.  If Maze didn't have a scene with Trixie, it was great that she had a scene with Linda or Chloe. If Amenadiel didn't have a scene with Lucifer, it was still awesome because he spent time with Dan.  But now with a bloated cast, instead of moving around all the pieces into different and fun configurations, pieces have to be left out entirely and then the "well this episode sucked because of no X"

I'm mostly reading that Maze is missed, and Dr Linda on occasion. Dr Linda makes sense because she's a therapist and there really is little chance to get her on the show other than through therapy sessions. They don't fit into every episode/story.

Maze is the show's fault, in my opinion, by making her a bounty hunter and splitting her from Lucifer (unless that was a step they took because of her pregnancy but I think it happened before she could have been pregnant). A bounty hunter travels, so that makes sense. It wouldn't make sense if she was there all day. Besides, what would she do? Compete with Chloe/the LAPD in the hunt for criminals in every episode?

I liked Maze, still do. I enjoyed the Maze centered episode. I miss her character but I don't miss her as I don't think that she would have added anything to the story/episodes which have aired without her. I didn't find myself thinking that this or that scene would have been great with Maze. It's unfortunate, but I guess, there was a reason why I didn't like it when they separated her from Lucifer. As much as I'm glad for her that she's finding her own way, her way also seems to be separate from all of the others. Her episode could have happened without any of the other characters if you think about it, so, for having the character contribute to the story they probably should have kept her connected to the supernatural and not connect her to the crime aspect of the show.

[johntfs]

53 minutes ago, CheshireCat said:

Maze is the show's fault, in my opinion, by making her a bounty hunter and splitting her from Lucifer (unless that was a step they took because of her pregnancy but I think it happened before she could have been pregnant). A bounty hunter travels, so that makes sense. It wouldn't make sense if she was there all day. Besides, what would she do? Compete with Chloe/the LAPD in the hunt for criminals in every episode?

I think making her a bounty hunter was pretty genius, actually.  As it was in Season One, Maze was mostly stuck behind the bar at Lucifer's nightclub.  The only interaction she had with most other characters was when they came into that bar.  As a bounty hunter there's reasons for her to interact with Dan and Chloe professionally.  She might even have scenes with Pierce or Charlotte.  The reason Maze is "missing" is that Lesley-Ann Brandt is on maternity leave.  Maze is a very popular character, the show-runners know that and I'm sure they're even more eager than a lot of the fans to get Maze back on TV in real time.