S16.E12: There’s Snow Business like Sew Business

[jacksgirl]

I'm in my car. Details. Who is in/out?

[DasFlavorPup]

Well, I'm batting zero tonight.  Happy for Kenya, shut your trap Margarita, and fuck it I'm off to polish off that bottle of Gnarly Head I uncorked.

[jacksgirl]

I'm in my car. Details. Who is in/out?

[Straycat80]

Oy! The judges were more clueless this week than usual! I can't believe they liked Margarita's faux fur fugly dress.  And she's going to Fashion Week, so not fair. 

Of course they loved Brandon's. Aside from the crop top, straps, and sandals, the model looked cute. I did like the coat.

Kenya's coat design was fine, didn't like the color of plaid myself. I had no problem with the pants and top, just not with that coat. 

aside from the shorts I liked Kentaro's. 

I liked Ayana's coat but not the pink and paint splatter part. The jumpsuit was odd too. 

so they are all in, sort of. Only three can show. I'll guess the bro's and Ayana. 

[Bebecat]

All five going, of course. What a shit show.

[NYGirl]

Of course they are all going to Fashion Week.  They always do this.  It's been 2 weeks without anybody leaving now.

It's not unprecedented Tim..it's happened many times before that they couldn't eliminate someone at the end.

God I hate Margarita..I can't take another week of her.

Edited November 3, 2017 by NYGirl

[Primetimer]

A cold-weather outerwear challenge determines who'll show at New York Fashion Week. Who gets frozen out? Your editors discuss!

View the full article

[milner]

I can’t believe island girl got in. What a sham.  In fact not sure how I feel about Kenya either. 

[Suzysite]

Freaking Margarita. She is insufferable, which is bad enough, but that unfinished fur dress with the fuschia showing through looked like a monkey's butt.  

[Straycat80]

3 minutes ago, jacksgirl said:

I'm in my car. Details. Who is in/out?

Everybody. But they are only going to chose three designers to show at Fashion week. 

[milner]

My network cut off the previews. What was said about fashion week?  Thank you

[pheebs]

I'll take Kentaro's top and coat and wear it with Kenya's trousers.

I'd weat Brandon's coat with jeans and a cable knit fishermans sweater.

Ayana's had a 20's gangster meets 80's video background girl look. Not great, but at least different?

Margarita's was so, so, awful. Hideous. And getting docked for using fur? Not surprised when fur is so politically polarizing. I wouldn't have even consider it, even if the show has no problem with leather.

I've always explained it thus to the truly vegan crowd - the reason most people don't have trouble with leather is: We have a dairy industry. Half the cattle born are male, and of no use for the dairy industry. So therefore, we have a beef industry. The hides of beef cattle are a by-product of the beef industry. So, not many dairy or beef consumers have a problem with using the by-products of these two lucrative industries.

So, I tell my vegan friends, (who naturally oppose these industries) that only through total veganism will stop the use of leather.

But most people oppose fur because it's not the thrifty use of a by-product. It's killing for one part of an animal, wasteful, and often cruel,therefore most people find it distasteful.

[Whodunnit]

One minute everyone is going

Spoiler

and the next there is a reversal and two people are getting added before fashion week. Executive meddling?

[EyewatchTV211]

I'm with the recappers on Brandon. I like him in general and have appreciated some of his looks and his POV, but it's one POV and I wish he would have been forced to stretch himself at some point this season. I would have loved to see if he could do any sort of fitted look or just ANYTHING different. 

I liked Kentaro's jacket, and I still liked the look when he took it off. Shorts are definitely funny for a cold winter, but you could do tights or pair the jacket/top with all sorts of other bottoms. Or women can follow the college guy trend of wearing shorts as late into winter as they can possibly manage (at least at the college I went to). 

Kenya's was well made but didn't seem like fashion. 

Was shocked anyone liked Margarita's.

Didn't care for Ayana's, especially the weirdly-shaped jumpsuit. But kind of cool that the jacket can be worn short, too.

Edited November 3, 2017 by VMepicgrl

[Wings]

I wonder why Margarita is always sour.  Well, no I don't.  

2 hours ago, milner said:

My network cut off the previews. What was said about fashion week?  Thank you

Home visits from Tim next week.  Only 3 will be in the finale so everyone makes a collection and 3 are chosen.  They probably show them 2 pieces.  Odd that all of them do this. It is usually only 2. 

Edited November 3, 2017 by wings707

[CraftyHazel]

3 minutes ago, pheebs said:

I'll take Kentaro's top and coat and wear it with Kenya's trousers.

I'd weat Brandon's coat with jeans and a cable knit fishermans sweater.

Ayana's had a 20's gangster meets 80's video background girl look. Not great, but at least different?

Margarita's was so, so, awful. Hideous. And getting docked for using fur? Not surprised when fur is so politically polarizing. I wouldn't have even consider it, even if the show has no problem with leather.

I've always explained it thus to the truly vegan crowd - the reason most people don't have trouble with leather is: We have a dairy industry. Half the cattle born are male, and of no use for the dairy industry. So therefore, we have a beef industry. The hides of beef cattle are a by-product of the beef industry. So, not many dairy or beef consumers have a problem with using the by-products of these two lucrative industries.

So, I tell my vegan friends, (who naturally oppose these industries) that only through total veganism will stop the use of leather.

But most people oppose fur because it's not the thrifty use of a by-product. It's killing for one part of an animal, wasteful, and often cruel,therefore most people find it distasteful.

Thank you for that explanation.  It actually makes sense.

[gingerormaryann]

I thought Kentaro and Brandon were amazing.  Very disappointed in the others.   They look like they're setting up a Margarita win.

[njbchlover]

It was obvious from probably Week Two that Brandon was the fair-haired boy and picked for fashion week at that point.  I don't really like most of his stuff, it seems repetitive and too androgynous for my personal taste, but I did like this last look of his.  Curious, though - does anyone know how many times Brandon has had a larger sized model compared to the other designers?  It just seems to me that he hasn't designed for the larger girls too often, and that worked in his favor for his design aesthetic.  

I really liked Kentaro's, too, although it was totally impractical for cold weather.  I suppose it could work in Denver, where it's often chilly in the morning and then, hit the 60's during the day.

I also thought that Kenya's coat was very nice, but I like bold prints and unusual colors for winter coats.  The coat didn't necessarily go with the outfit underneath, but the model looked great in it.  I was getting really pissed, thinking she would be eliminated because I thought her outfit was better and definitely more well made than Margarita's.

Ayana's coat was tailored beautifully, especially given that it was convertible (full coat to cropped jacket - cute!!), but I could do without the black paint splatters and the jumpsuit was hideous.

Margarita should have gone home - I'm over the crying, the whining, the mean girl comments and just over her, completely.**  I don't think she is that great of a designer, either.  That freakin' cavewoman dress with a bathrobe over it was horrendous!  On a totally bitchy side, I laughed because I felt that Liris got some comeuppance having to wear that crap (I do not like Liris at all)!  It looked like a Halloween costume gone bad!  

I guess this will be now dragged out for another two weeks - next week will be the Tim visits and maybe the following week, two will be eliminated.  I'm figuring the final three with be Kentaro, Brandon and Ayana.

**EDITED TO ADD - As annoying as Margarita has become, I would still rather see her have a runway collection than either one of the twins!!  

Edited November 3, 2017 by njbchlover

[Nordly Beaumont]

1 hour ago, Gypsyfish said:

1 hour ago, DasFlavorPup said:

Can someone explain to me why the hell you'd wear a midriff-exposing outfit in winter?

At least she had a coat over it. I kept thinking Kentaro's model would have awfully cold legs! Some tights would have fixed that. 

I live in Minneapolis ("where it's cold and I figure I'll keep better") I've been downtown many times in my sensible down coat, scarf, hat, and mittens and I've seen young women in short skirts, light tops, heels, and no coat at all. Sometimes people just wanna look cute, weather be damned! I think it's dumb (painful and dangerous) but I see it often. Plus, it's a runway, not a city street. I was surprised they were as bundled as they were.

Edited November 3, 2017 by Nordly Beaumont

[EyewatchTV211]

Sorry to be off topic, but @njbchlover, I like your username and avatar. I'm also a jersey girl, although I no longer live there. 

[njbchlover]

Just now, VMepicgrl said:

Sorry to be off topic, but @njbchlover, I like your username and avatar. I'm also a jersey girl, although I no longer live there. 

Awww...thanks - I bet you miss it!!  I don't know that I could move anywhere else (well, maybe somewhere warm to escape the winter, but definitely need to be back for beach season and autumn - my two favorite seasons)   ;-)

[anniebird]

15 minutes ago, pheebs said:

I've always explained it thus to the truly vegan crowd - the reason most people don't have trouble with leather is: We have a dairy industry. Half the cattle born are male, and of no use for the dairy industry. So therefore, we have a beef industry. The hides of beef cattle are a by-product of the beef industry. So, not many dairy or beef consumers have a problem with using the by-products of these two lucrative industries.

So, I tell my vegan friends, (who naturally oppose these industries) that only through total veganism will stop the use of leather.

But most people oppose fur because it's not the thrifty use of a by-product. It's killing for one part of an animal, wasteful, and often cruel,therefore most people find it distasteful.

Perfect explanation - thank you.

[zoemom]

I'm watching a bit behind - got in late, playing catch-up on the DVR.  

My first reaction, besides the total eyeroll about the show being "fur free" and once again a teary Margarita gets her way and gets more time......

Did you know that she's from an island country and doesn't "know" about winter?  Good God woman, STFU, quit your bitchin.  I'm trying to skip over comments here to avoid "spoiling" it for me, but I'm getting the vibe already that they'll all be heading to Fashion Week.  Wish that PR would just cut the drama (Margarita -textbook Borderline Personality) and Margarita while they're at it and get on with it.  Liris, good God, that dress looks like something my cat might have "gacked" up topped by a beige bathrobe.  The girl just has no talent.  BTW, I can't stand her - just in case you couldn't tell.

Kenya's coat was a meh from me, the plaid reminded me of a coat I wore back in the sixth grade and that was 1969.  Didn't understand the reasoning of the spotted top...busy and her designs look like something you already see in the stores.

Brandon, I know he does the same design, but thought that his look this evening was good, but didn't get the crop top and open toes.  Liked how the camera panned to Zac's face when his coat came down the runway- unlike Nina's resting bitch face, you definitely can read him like a book.  Zac's comment - "you have to decide between a muff and a bag"....nuff said.

I'd give Anaya Kentaro the win, guess I'll have to fast forward thru all the commercials (damn there are alot of them!) and usual judge comments and the "drama/tears"....don't tell me, Kenya's crying now (all the days she's sacrificed, is she going to pay rent or buy fabric?  Think it's kinda hard to sew without having a roof over your head.) 

Margarita, two faced bitch, she said she'd take Brandon with her to FW, after all of her whining about him all season.  Now she's bitching that no one wants to take her with them to fashion week.  Wonder why......girl is deluded.

OK, I listened to the judges - they definitely are smoking/snorting something - they actually "liked" Margarita's dress and then dissed Anaya's outfit.

I give up!

Edited November 3, 2017 by zoemom
SMH....guess I just don't get "fashion"

[EyewatchTV211]

Just now, njbchlover said:

Awww...thanks - I bet you miss it!!  I don't know that I could move anywhere else (well, maybe somewhere warm to escape the winter, but definitely need to be back for beach season and autumn - my two favorite seasons)   ;-)

I do miss it. My parents live in PA now, not too far from where I grew up. I got to go to Asbury Park for a quick day trip while visiting them, but it wasn't enough. I'm not close enough to a beach now. :-( I do like winter weather, though. I don't love summer heat (that's my least favorite, temp wise), but it IS usually better at the beach. My trip was in early October, and it was actually really nice and moderate. Took the pup and met lots of other pups. 

[TexasGal]

16 minutes ago, wings707 said:

 

Home visits from Tim next week.  Only 3 will be in the finale so everyone makes a collection and 3 are chosen.  They probably show them 2 pieces.  Odd that all of them do this. It is usually only 2. 

Other than seeing a teaser auf in the preview, do we really know that anyone does get eliminated though?  Heidi said only 3 spots are guaranteed - to me that means there will be at least 3 spots.  Maybe more.  So I bet there is one out and 4 who show. 

I have to give Margarita credit for calling Liris’ stank face in her talking heads.  “She’s saying she likes it but the smile doesn’t reach her eyes.”  And that was before the Flintstones dress appeared.

Edited November 3, 2017 by TexasGal

[dgpolo]

4 minutes ago, Nordly Beaumont said:

I live in Minneapolis ("where it's cold and I figure I'll keep better") I've been downtown many times in my sensible down coat, scarf, hat, and mittens and I've seen young women in short skirts, light tops, heels, and no coat at all. Sometimes people just wanna look cute, weather be damned! I think it's dumb (painful and dangerous) but I see often. Plus, it's a runway, not a city street. I was surprised they were as bundled as they were.

Also from the Midwest here and my mom would keep her thermostat at 85! during the winter. We all knew not to wear sweaters there. On holidays I would call in the morning to tell her to lower the temp. There were 6 of us plus spouses, plus kids, plus oven on all day. We might not have worn crop tops and shorts but definitely T-shirts and I'm sure more than one of us wished for shorts. Not that I think the designers were thinking of a situation like that, but maybe an Aspen ski resort around the fireplace? Or more probably they didn't care to think of a reason to just do their regular look.

[Linderhill]

14 minutes ago, njbchlover said:

17 minutes ago, VMepicgrl said:

Sorry to be off topic, but @njbchlover, I like your username and avatar. I'm also a jersey girl, although I no longer live there. 

Awww...thanks - I bet you miss it!!  I don't know that I could move anywhere else (well, maybe somewhere warm to escape the winter, but definitely need to be back for beach season and autumn - my two favorite seasons)   ;-)

another Jersey girl here too. Born and bred on the shore but alas, I no longer live there either.

That fake fur dress was one of the ugliest things I've ever seen on the show.  And I watched nearly every season.  It looked like a fur bag tied in the middle.  It was only Liris that saved it for Margarita.

Edited November 3, 2017 by Linderhill
on topic comment to add:

[roctavia]

So they all go.... what a shock! That's never ever happened before on PR! 

 

Kentaros was definitely the winner, and he at least made tall socks to keep the legs warm.

 

Brandon's coat was neat and I think the first time since like week two that I could actually figure out how his outfit would put on. But... annoyed that he has only ever mad crop tops. Did we ever get a look at how the pants were constructed? I still feel like he does weird pants because he can't fit a normal crotch... 

 

Margarita was terrible today, boring outfit and too much whining.

 

Ayana made an ok look, but not as good as some of her recent stuff. 

 

I liked Kenya's coat a lot, but the outfit underneath was just ok.

[Beaner]

At my last retail job we sold many different styles of coats...I'm not a fan of black coats...I always felt they were drab...some customers loved black & in fact insisted on it. Maybe that's why I loved Kenya's bold print and  Kentaro's winter white dreamy design. Have to admit I'd wear Brandon's in a heartbeat minus the crop top and annoying straps on the back. Ayana's was kind of a hot mess, and even if I loved Margarita's (which I did not) I'd never admit it because she needs to shut up and grow up.

[Midnight Cheese]

I like Margarita.   I like that she has no poker face, and admitted, fully, that she was head-fucked by the elimination and her save.   Further, and I'll try and keep my legit temper in check, she hasn't worked with winter textiles.   Maybe if your instinct is to eye-roll and get super nasty super fast about someone who does come from a literal, objective reality, endless summer climate...you should ask yourself why.  Because she wasn't lying.   My Puerto Rican mom and all of that side of my family think "winter" is under 70 degrees if and when they move to the mainland.  Anyway.

Loved Kentaro's.   Love Kenya, but not all of her elements.  Margarita's dress was pure Muppet, Brandon should have refined the hems.  Ayana's fabrics and styling looked cheapitty cheap cheap.   All that written, I am glad all 5 are showing something next week.

Edited November 3, 2017 by Midnight Cheese

[MuMuGuy]

That would be a jerk move to not let two people present at Fashion Week after being told they would go, hopefully that’s just manufactured drama. That being said, Margarita should’ve been eliminated... again. Her Chewbacca dress was unfinished and her explanation was bullcrap.

[RedheadZombie]

1 hour ago, agirlreading said:

I would be shocked if Brandon was on the bottom because I usually abhor his fashions, but this one is halfway decent. Still wouldn't wear it, but I see the design and style in it at least. Everything else he's made just baffles me and I call bs on Heidi and those guest judges who fawn over his stuff because if they wore it they'd be on the worst dressed lists. 

 

I don't get why fur is not allowed since I'm pretty sure they've used leather, am I wrong? Are cows killed kindly to make leather?

 

Well you take off the coats and you're in Texas. 

I really liked Ayana's coat but what was with that circus jumper? Yikes! And I hated the styling with the hat. It just brought it down.

 

I was disappointed in Kenya. I usually love her stuff, but I thought the coat was pretty standard that you could find a lot of places. And I have no problem with mixing colors and patterns, but I wasn't into the shirt at all and I didn't get the combo. 

Isn't leather from the by products of the meat industry?  And no, I doubt the cows are slaughtered humanely.  Fur is death for fashion, with no one fed.  Seems like a difference to me.

[Bebecat]

Kentaro's was high fashion and well made. So he deserved the win. Brandon's is high fashion in his way, I guess. Am beginning to think high fashion means that I would not have a clue as how to put it on.

Kenya has no imagination, a trait shared by the increasingly unbearable Margarita. Neither belongs at this phase, if it was a real show like days gone by.

Ms. modesty is creative and precise so she does belong in the top tier as she never turns in a sloppy look. I did not like hers tonight but it was very well made as usual and at least interesting. I do not like rompers on adults. A sleek jumpsuit is one thing, but rompers look like there is room for a diaper. 

Why is it such high praise for something to look young?? What a sick society. I never get why adults want to look childish. Some societies actually respect age more than youth. See how grumpy these judges make me...

 

Heidi was actually covered on the runway. Did not love her choice but it was a very modest look for her.

[RedheadZombie]

1 hour ago, weightyghost said:

You know what I love in my winter clothes? High slits in my shorts and a top that not only bears my stomach but is baggy so that nice freezing breeze can do straight to my nipples. 

 But you know, ~fashion

You know what I love?  A "muff" tied around my pelvis like a waitress apron, so I can roll it up to prevent frostbite to me belly button.  To keep it in place, I will tie the "handbag" around my waist.

Did anyone else feel the mad need to attack Brandon's coat with a lint brush?  

[dgpolo]

7 minutes ago, MuMuGuy said:

That would be a jerk move to not let two people present at Fashion Week after being told they would go, hopefully that’s just manufactured drama. That being said, Margarita should’ve been eliminated... again. Her Chewbacca dress was unfinished and her explanation was bullcrap.

I believe Heidi's words, for Kenya at least, were something like 'you will be moving forward towards fashion week', not you will present at it. Plus they probably would all be showing a collection anyway if only as a decoy and not televised.

[RedheadZombie]

39 minutes ago, gingerormaryann said:

I thought Kentaro and Brandon were amazing.  Very disappointed in the others.   They look like they're setting up a Margarita win.

Really?  I feel they crowned Brandon weeks ago.

[Passing Strange]

14 minutes ago, Midnight Cheese said:

Further, and I'll try and keep my legit temper in check, she hasn't worked with winter textiles.   Maybe if your instinct is to eye-roll and get super nasty super fast about someone who does come from a literal, objective reality, endless summer climate...you should ask yourself why.  Because she wasn't lying.   My Puerto Rican mom and all of that side of my family think "winter" is under 70 degrees if and when they move to the mainland.

Margarita went to the Rhode Island School of Design. It's in Providence, which averages 36 inches of snow a year. She's seen winter.

[Whodunnit]

Margarita's dress was terrible.

I guess I assumed that when they talked about it being unprecedented that they meant all would be going to fashion week; they should watch their own show because they have had five people show a collection on the week prior to fashion week in past seasons.

[hoodooznoodooz]

10 minutes ago, dgpolo said:

I believe Heidi's words, for Kenya at least, were something like 'you will be moving forward towards fashion week', not you will present at it. Plus they probably would all be showing a collection anyway if only as a decoy and not televised.

It's silly that they set up decoys. Not many people care anymore who from Project Runway shows.

[VagueDisclaimer]

5 minutes ago, Passing Strange said:

Margarita went to the Rhode Island School of Design. It's in Providence, which averages 36 inches of snow a year. She's seen winter.

Exactly. Everyone has limitations or lack of experience, but constantly using the excuse card is exhausting and irritating. She’s whined and blamed others for her shortcomings during past challenges as well. Fact is, this show is about challenges. She figured how to use parts of a car but winter fabrics? Noooooo!

Edited November 3, 2017 by VagueDisclaimer

[zoemom]

34 minutes ago, zoemom said:

I'm trying to skip over comments here to avoid "spoiling" it for me, but I'm getting the vibe already that they'll all be heading to Fashion Week. 

Quoting myself, weird I know, but how did I guess????  Margarita needed to go home...........

Quote

Kenya has no imagination, a trait shared by the increasingly unbearable Margarita. Neither belongs at this phase, if it was a real show like days gone by.

Bebecat - I sure miss those days...PR has definitely jumped the shark (or should that be "snark"?)

Edited November 3, 2017 by zoemom

[Bebecat]

M has been able to master giving fellow designers cold icy stares when they receive praise, for such a summery gal.

[hoodooznoodooz]

Wasn't Kenya's wool a houndstooth, not a herringbone?

[notcreative enough]

I absolutely HATE it when people cry about how this is so important because there life sucks so hard. Sorry Kenya I don't care about your life story. This show is a chance to get name recognition not a golden ticket to be rich and famous. This should enhance their lives not be the chance save them from being broke and homeless. 

[mauras]

Leather isn't necessarily a by-product of the meat industry. It often comes from animals who were killed for their hides. But I think the perception that it's a byproduct helps explain why a lot of people are okay with leather but not fur.

Nothing was completely successful tonight (though Kentaro's and Brandon's were very good), but I mean, Margarita's dress looked like a bath mat. Seriously, judges? 

[Miss Ruth]

The judges choked!  When Kenya played the "poor me" card, I had a flashback to Mondo's doing the same thing when he revealed he was HIV.  I guess even a pity vote is better than going home.

I wonder why they didn't pick a winner for this challenge.

[Midnight Cheese]

22 minutes ago, Passing Strange said:

Margarita went to the Rhode Island School of Design. It's in Providence, which averages 36 inches of snow a year. She's seen winter.

I didn't know she went to RISD.  Thanks, I do love a weather report!

[vibeology]

2 hours ago, DasFlavorPup said:

If this were a Star Wars challenge, Margarita would be a shoo-in with that Obi Wan Kenobi coat and Chewbacca dress.

No way. Brandon's been designing Tatooine chic all season. He'd win that in a heartbeat. 

Zac keeps going on about not understanding Margarita's look. Her style is tacky. Even her initial instinct to buy fur was tacky. A faux fur dress, tacky. A lime green dress with fur sleeves, tacky. That's her aesthetic. I do want to see her collection, but not for good reasons. 

And minus 5, not that cold. Everyone was being so dramatic but what do I know. I'm just a Canadian. I did think it was strange that a NYC bar was measuring temperatures in Celcius. 

[oceanview]

1 hour ago, agirlreading said:

I would be shocked if Brandon was on the bottom because I usually abhor his fashions, but this one is halfway decent. Still wouldn't wear it, but I see the design and style in it at least. Everything else he's made just baffles me and I call bs on Heidi and those guest judges who fawn over his stuff because if they wore it they'd be on the worst dressed lists. 

 

I don't get why fur is not allowed since I'm pretty sure they've used leather, am I wrong? Are cows killed kindly to make leather?

 

Well you take off the coats and you're in Texas. 

I really liked Ayana's coat but what was with that circus jumper? Yikes! And I hated the styling with the hat. It just brought it down.

 

I was disappointed in Kenya. I usually love her stuff, but I thought the coat was pretty standard that you could find a lot of places. And I have no problem with mixing colors and patterns, but I wasn't into the shirt at all and I didn't get the combo. 

I like all of Kenya's separates, but not together.  To pair the pants and shirt, I thought the looked wonderful.  I am partial to polka dots in shirts and maybe dresses though.   I liked everyone's  pretty much.   Would have liked  Margarita's  coat if the model was naked under it.  I didn't hate the fur dress, but a black skirt and  fur vest or blouse might have been a better choice?

2 hours ago, Bebecat said:

Does Marg really not know how the judges examine each piece, each seam etc? This is the second time, at least, she has hoped the judges won't notice something. Trust me, Zac will notice.

Heidi is pretty observant too

[Ketzel]

20 minutes ago, vibeology said:

And minus 5, not that cold. Everyone was being so dramatic but what do I know. I'm just a Canadian. I did think it was strange that a NYC bar was measuring temperatures in Celcius

It's for the drama. Calling the place 23F wouldn't sound nearly as icy.

Edited November 3, 2017 by Ketzel