S08.E01: Mercy

[kj4ever]

And Michonne is regulated to the little woman again.  Good God I hate what they are doing to her.

[ShadowHunter]

5 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

Yeah, that was weird. Rick's aged about 25 years, but Judith only about five. Maybe he got that rapid aging disease, a la "Star Trek."

I thought maybe that wasn't real like something Rick was imagining.  Who knows lol.

[RedheadZombie]

2 minutes ago, MichaelaRae said:

Well, as Rick repeatedly said to everyone, it wasn't about him. He wanted Neegan dead. But he also wanted to give the Saviors a chance to surrender - everyone except Neegan, who he personally wanted to kill. They gave them the chance to surrender. The Saviors didn't take it. So they stuck to the plan. Because it's not about what Rick wants. 

My interpretation of sticking to the plan would be Negan shot dead on site, the remaining - weaponless - men would be offered surrender.  Gregory's already been thrown down the stairs, they know Dwight's on their side, and that leaves two guys with their hands in the air.  Plus, their kill list didn't offer one single person the opportunity to surrender.

I realize Negan can't be killed because he's sticking around, and I don't even mind it that much.  But please make it more plausible.   Have Negan using the human shield of a child, covered head to toe in Kevlar vests - something.  Instead Negan's throwing himself, somersaulting about the yard, and it becomes a bit comical.

[MichaelaRae]

But how would they really know that shooting Negan dead would make all of the other Saviors surrender? They've literally SEEN how the Saviors get brainwashed.

[AimingforYoko]

2 minutes ago, kj4ever said:

And Michonne is regulated to the little woman again.  Good God I hate what they are doing to her.

Michonne was busy in Wakanda.

[raven]

2 minutes ago, MichaelaRae said:

But how would they really know that shooting Negan dead would make all of the other Saviors surrender? They've literally SEEN how the Saviors get brainwashed.

Yeah but still, it couldn't hurt :)

[RedheadZombie]

5 minutes ago, leela46 said:

A friend of mine thinks this whole fight was Rick' s dream. 

When they shot to the pre-war, inspirational Rick-speech, I muttered "you've gotta be fucking kidding me", because I momentarily thought we had just seen the acted out plan, with the war yet to come.  But that doesn't explain Rick's sweaty curls hanging in his face (why is he the only one whose hair gets drenched in sweat), or his red-rimmed eyes.  My impression is Rick knows all is not well.  Or worse, Rick's condition doesn't actually occur until the mid-season finale, and the first half is going to be flash-backs, flash-forwards, and present times, you know - "artistic" like.

[SimoneS]

6 minutes ago, kj4ever said:

And Michonne is regulated to the little woman again.  Good God I hate what they are doing to her.

Danai spent the spring and summer filming Black Panther and then Avengers: Infinity War so you won't be seeing more than a scene here or there with her for the first half of the season.

Edited October 23, 2017 by SimoneS

[DearEvette]

2 minutes ago, AimingforYoko said:

Michonne was busy in Wakanda.

Yeah, I figured her absence -- being on the disabled list and thus staying back -- was a neat way to accommodate her filming schedule. 

[MichaelaRae]

11 minutes ago, leela46 said:

A friend of mine thinks this whole fight was Rick' s dream. 

That's interesting because I spent the last half hour of the episode waiting for my legs to get kicked out from under me - everything just went TOO WELL for the good guys, even the part where Father Gabe got left behind but lived (for now) and it REMAINED all good....and I still don't understand where the hell red-eyed Rick is in the flashbacks/flashforwards (am I watching Lost????). That that fight where it mostly went well was a dream...that would PISS ME OFF but it might make a hell of a lot of sense.

Edited October 23, 2017 by MichaelaRae

[DearEvette]

re the flashforward: I read a speculation somewhere that (I'll put these under spoilers in case they are true spoilers)
 

Spoiler

the scenes of Rick and Carl where Rick is throwing a microwave at that guy at the gas station are a near-present flash forward. 

The scenes of red-eyed Rick talking about his mercy is a flashforward right after the Saviour war

And the scenes of old man Rick is an actual flashforward several years (6? 7? based on Judith's age) years in the future

 

[RedheadZombie]

6 minutes ago, MichaelaRae said:

But how would they really know that shooting Negan dead would make all of the other Saviors surrender? They've literally SEEN how the Saviors get brainwashed.

I thought the plan was Negan absolutely dies, and the others are offered the chance to surrender.  If they don't surrender, they're dead.  So their strategy failed at both. 

I mean, come on.  Rick just drove off a cowardly, polite man on the off chance that he may be, could be, a Savior.  Rick has left behind a man screaming for help, because he found him stupid - even stopped by after his death to steal his backpack.  Yet he's going to treat the Saviors with kid gloves?  The same Saviors that Rick and his gang murdered in their sleep, on the word of someone they hardly knew?   I'm sure Rick fully understands that the Saviors are bad news.  Any he allows to live is likely to challenge Rick's authority down the road, or kill them all in their sleep.  Except Daryl's special friend, Dwight.

14 minutes ago, ShadowHunter said:

I thought maybe that wasn't real like something Rick was imagining.  Who knows lol.

Some fantasy - he's an old fart, but his woman remains young and hot, and his daughter is a perpetual child.

[MichaelaRae]

Let's face it, y'all. I'm this show's Savior. I question very little. I ignore the plot holes and just enjoy the acting and most of the zombies and just lose myself in the stories of good people doing bad things for the right reasons, doing the right things for bad reasons, and what happens when the world goes to shit and human beings are STILL the biggest monsters and angels the world has ever seen. It's what drew me into the show years ago (my sister was in it for the zombies and sat me down for a binge watch after season 1....and I was hooked. But not for the zombies. ;-) ) And it's still what draws me in.

It also continually reaffirms for me that if the apocalypse comes, I need to go out in the initial wave. I am NOT cut out for this world.

Edited October 23, 2017 by MichaelaRae

[MrsRafaelBarba]

30 minutes ago, leela46 said:

A friend of mine thinks this whole fight was Rick' s dream. 

You know what, that's possible.

 

When they show him talking to the Fam at the end, Father G was there.

 

Also he said they were going thru with the plan tomorrow..

[AngelaHunter]

36 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

And who's taking care of her while Zeke and Jerry are otherwise occupied? 

We don't need to worry about Shiva. We've already seen that no one in Negan's crew can hit a 500lb tiger, even with automatic weapons and endless ammunition.

[ShadowHunter]

This was still 10x better then the Season 7 premiere.

Loved the little smile Rick had after he took the picture.

[mightysparrow]

58 minutes ago, kj4ever said:

And Michonne is regulated to the little woman again.  Good God I hate what they are doing to her.

I don't even recognize Michonne any more.

 

55 minutes ago, AimingforYoko said:

Michonne was busy in Wakanda.

That's the only positive in this fucking mess. Danai is off to much GREENER pastures!

[bobbyjoe]

The showrunners simply do not realize how completely happy and energized the tv fans would be if Negan was in mid(idiotic)speech in an episode like this and "bang" somebody shoots him and he's dead.  I guarantee that it would be maybe the most popular moment of the series for now and for years to come.  I don't know if it's just that they're too wedded to the comic book series or to the actor, but whatever the reason, it's waaaaaaaaaaay past time for them to let it go.

Like didn't Gabriel still have his gun?  Do you know how much I would've paid if Negan had popped up and said "I hope you've got your shittin' pants on" and Gabriel had been like "yeah, I got your shittin' pants right here" and shot the damn bastard about eighty-five times.

[AgentRXS]

OK I get that they can't kill Negan (and that's annoying) but I don't understand why they couldn't show someone at least making an attempt and at least graze his shoulder or something.  Its getting to be a little much that anyone tolerates his never ending speechifying.  I had to LOL at Rick unloading round after round when Negan was somewhat secured behind the large piece of metal. What a waste of bullets.  At this point, if Rick and the gang win the war, they should keep Negan alive as a prisoner/torture device. If any follower decides to go rogue or if an another invading camp happens upon them, they can just lock their enemies in a room alone with Negan.As FPP will soon attest, I am sure that being confined in a room alone with Negan for longer than 5 minutes would be the most arduous experience anyone can have since the apocalypse began.....

I just can't with this show's "artistic" time shuffling, so I'm just not reading much into it. I'm no longer emotionally invested in this show after last season's shitshow. I'm mostly here for Rick/Michonne. When or if they end, I'm out too.

Edited October 23, 2017 by AgentRXS

[Dobian]

New season, and the show still hasn't lost its penchant for giving a character some annoying prop or affectation and forcing it on the viewers in every scene.  So now we have Tara and her twizzler stick.  Every time I watch TWD it's like tv writing 101.

New season, and the show still hasn't lost its penchant for choosing the crappiest song possible and playing it ad nauseum, whether it's with Daryl locked in a closet or Rick and Michonne in the future.

[KirkB]

11 minutes ago, AgentRXS said:

I just can't with this show's "artistic" time shuffling, so I'm just not reading much into it. I'm no longer emotionally invested in this show after last season's shitshow.

That's where I am too. I'm still watching but I no longer CARE. The main reason I haven't quit yet is because I'm not quite bored enough and I don't actively hate it.

Edited October 23, 2017 by KirkB

[CletusMusashi]

While I respect Rick's idea of cheating on the countdown, on rewatch it does have some problems.  Firing on seven would make more sense if it was "Ten, nine, eight, seven, BANG!" Instead it's "Ten, nine, eight, seven... KACHINK...:" and then, finally, once the gun is cocked and ready to fire... "BANG!" Why wasn't the gun ready to begin with?

[Pixiebomb]

So are we supposed to call Father PeePants - Father Poopy Pants now?  Seems like that's what Negan's going for.  I wonder if the Show knows we call him Father PP and they are giving us a nod?  

[CletusMusashi]

If they knew about the FPP thing, that would have been part of the speech.

"You, I say, you, are going to need, I say, your shitting pants. For shitting, that is. I say they just might to have to change your name, I say, nick, that is, to Father Shitting Pants. After I make you shit your pants. get it? Kind of like how they used to call you Father PEE pants, before, on account of how many times you peed, I say urinated that is, your pee pants. With pee, I say." Except it would be longer than that. And with more random leaning.

[Yolapukka]

I completely tuned out mentally  for all the tedious speechifying, I don't think I retained a single word of any of it except for some of King Ezekiel's. At least his OTT staginess doesn't completely bore me (yet).

The only reason I can think of for Father Gabriel to get out of the car was to create the plot point allowing weasel Gregory to steal it, because apparently that character needs to linger like a bad smell next to an outhouse. And then of course he wound up trapped in something not unlike an outhouse with some weirdo that kept chortling about wearing your "shitting pants". Gabriel, please; shoot him, stab him or grab some paper and force feed it down his throat, just please, please, please shut that blathering man up.

[Dobian]

Negan's plot armor is better than what the Kingdom guys are wearing.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Well, guess we need to re-nickname Gabriel.  He's no longer FPP, but FatherShittingPants (FSP).  And that's what you get for trying to help people who don't deserve to live, Gabe.  Of all people, you should know that "God helps those who help themselves."

I used to really wholeheartedly like this series...... until it turned into The Monologuing (Until We Wish We Were) Dead.  Sasha made us think she killed herself - back at the end of last season - because she didn't want to be used against CDB, but the plain truth is that she just couldn't take Negan's nattering any longer.

Was the 'future visions' just Rick wigging out, or were those actual 'flash forward' moments?

Its even better that it was against Negan, but no matter who it was, starting a full out (local) war in the middle of a zombie apocalypse?  I am very down with that.  Some real f*ing action to watch, instead of having to endure countless minutes of JDM repeatedly over-work his vocal cords.

And Carl.  Showing sympathy for a crazy person who sees imaginary people he wants to cannibalize.  Points for trying, kid, but maybe aim for someone who'll pass a psyche eval. 

Edited October 23, 2017 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[Miles]

2 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

I realize Negan can't be killed because he's sticking around, and I don't even mind it that much.  But please make it more plausible.   Have Negan using the human shield of a child, covered head to toe in Kevlar vests - something.  Instead Negan's throwing himself, somersaulting about the yard, and it becomes a bit comical.

Ugh I was so annoyed. You let Negan prance around outside and speechify instead of just shooting him? And then once you start shooting with 20 people you can't hit one of them point blank? Seriously.

Ugh this show. I can't understand why people say Fear the Walking Dead is the worse show. At least people actually die there when they should. Pretty sure on this show somebody falling out of a helicopter would have just survived it and somebody getting two hammer blows to the head, too.

I'm okay with people surviving if they are necessary to the plot, but make it at least somewhat plausible! Like you said, human shield or something.

[Yemayah]

3 hours ago, MichaelaRae said:

That's interesting because I spent the last half hour of the episode waiting for my legs to get kicked out from under me - everything just went TOO WELL for the good guys, even the part where Father Gabe got left behind but lived (for now) and it REMAINED all good....and I still don't understand where the hell red-eyed Rick is in the flashbacks/flashforwards (am I watching Lost????). That that fight where it mostly went well was a dream...that would PISS ME OFF but it might make a hell of a lot of sense.

I tend to agree that the events at the Negan compound did not go down as shown. Everything seemed too perfect in timing and execution;  almost as if a mind (Ricks?) is obsessively replaying a bad event as it should have gone down.  This episode felt strange, slightly 'off' from the very beginning as I watched it unfold.  I ignored the pretentious cane/clock/flowers/sunshine & old Rick scenes, dismissing the scenes as unreal and irrelevant at this point.  What really bothered me was the swooning!Rick, the reflections on his face and red-rimmed tearing eyes.  It did not strike me as a dream or a flashback, more like a flash forward to the aftermath of something in the future that went badly.  The Independence-Day-like speechifying did not track right either. I was not sure how much time had elapsed since the end of S7 finale and this episode, such that they got all the cars tricked out and everyone organized.  What boggled my mind was that Michonne looked as if she were never injured (facially),  and she said to Carl: I'll help you defend this place.  That made no sense to me.  Rosita idling in the rocker made no sense. 

  Not taking down Negan and the Savior leaders, who stepped out as if they were invincible, did not seem plausible. The wasting of the ammo by shooting upward, and shooting out windows, struck me as appalling and senseless.  Rick had started shooting at the countdown down. of 7 and struck no one on that balcony.  He kept shooting and shooting until Gabriel tried to pull him away.  I was really feeling that this was not really happening. 

Loved Darryl on the motorcycle and lighting up the explosives, but really? Too perfect.  No one was spotted/spied upon laying all the explosives and traps, the ambushes, the caravans, yet they could not escape anywhere undetected in the finale of S6??

The real kicker was they appeared to rendezvous at a field and, after Darryl and Rick's exchange,  Darryl said something to the effect of 'let's go'.  This after a shootout and a herd of walkers.   Yet Carol, Ezekiel, et al, were on foot at that Research building and what appeared to be a repeat of the arrow to the head takeout of a Savior and a lot of shooting and then the explosion.  I was completely puzzled and confused at this point.  Further, Carl was taking canned goods to the hungry man.  Did he actually leave the compound as his dad and others were out waginig war??  And once again the Independence Day speech as if they were about to set out for the first time (noting, as others had, that Fr.Gabriel was present).  WTF, I was thinking, they had not started yet,so everything that was shown was not real. Back to Swooning!Rick again (and ignoring the Old!Rick scene, at least for now), I suspected that whatever went down subsequently must not have ended well.  I couldn't hear the whole sentence, but he said 'Mercy...', the ep title. And, at the beginning (at a time uncertain), he was shown watching some graves.

I feel as if a dream; an injured Rick can't face what happened and, if he were injured- is having future dreams and he feels old and worn.  Any other theories.  I watched twice before posting. Maybe I missed some subtle moment or did not get the beginning/ending scenes.  I felt certain they were setting out for the first time.  I didn't quite catch it either time, but at the end, did Ezekiel say something about the first time leading to a second time,etc.?

Edited October 23, 2017 by Yemayah
spelling, syntax

[scrb]

This show insults the viewers' intelligence over and over.

It's not just Negan who "got to be got."

Put the show out of it's misery before it tries to create another uber villain that Rick has to defeat.

Those speeches were awful.  Talking about tomorrow and some better world?  Please, the hostilities have already started.  This is a war for survival.  You don't have to conjure up gooey dreams of a perfect future.

If defeating Negan and the Saviors brought about peace, then the reason for this show disappears.  There will always be war on TWD, because it's all that the show runners know -- or think is the reason for the ratings.

[thuganomics85]

The Walking Dead is back doing what it does best: being entertaining enough for the most part, but continuing to fall short of what it is expected of it and what TPTB likely consider their show to be.

I mean, sure, the build up to the "war" was interesting and I was curious to see how everyone fit in it, but then it all just leads to them hiding behind panels, while Negan swaggers out in the open and rambles on again like Jeffery Dean Morgan would actually die if he quit speaking, while all of his lieutenants just hang out and smirk.  But Rick, Maggie, and crew don't kill them for.... reasons, I guess?  Yeah, yeah, even if Negan does die, I understand that it would not be the end of the Saviors, but his death (and possibly his lackeys) would still be a huge blow, and the advantage they need.  Sometimes the simplest solution works.  Really, all of this could have worked if they did have him include some kind of human shield and that's why no one wanted to take a shot.

Of course, it wouldn't be an episode of The Walking Dead without a some trippy shit, so while all of this is going on, we keep cutting back between a red-eyed, exhausted Rick and old-bearded Rick.  Hallucinations?  Flash-forwards?  Who the hell knows?

Carl makes a new friend.  Watch them take the easy route and make him bad after-all.

I don't care how big of a weasel he is, Gregory never fails to entertain.  At this point, it's on everyone else for him constantly weaseling his way out of things. 

Tara in those sunglasses and twizzler in her mouth really screams "I'm trying to be cool, guys!"  Not happening, Tara.

Michonne is left behind because Danai Gurira is doing better things... err, I mean, she's injured, y'all!

Seth Gilliam and Ross Marquand get themselves into the fancy credits.  Nice!  Yay, Ezekiel and Simon's actors are also considered regulars!  No, the actress playing Jadis is too.  I guess I have to be prepared for her and her trash hipsters to make things even more unbearable.

Better then last year's premiere, but despite the action and explosions, still felt surprisingly muted for the 100th episode of the entire series.

[RedheadZombie]

38 minutes ago, Yemayah said:

I tend to agree that the events at the Negan compound did not go down as shown. Everything seemed too perfect in timing and execution;  almost as if a mind (Ricks?) is obsessively replaying a bad event as it should have gone down.  This episode felt strange, slightly 'off' from the very beginning as I watched it unfold.  I ignored the pretentious cane/clock/flowers/sunshine & old Rick scenes, dismissing the scenes as unreal and irrelevant at this point.  What really bothered me was the swooning!Rick, the reflections on his face and red-rimmed tearing eyes.  It did not strike me as a dream or a flashback, more like a flash forward to the aftermath of something in the future that went badly.  The Independence-Day-like speechifying did not track right either. I was not sure how much time had elapsed since the end of S7 finale and this episode, such that they got all the cars tricked out and everyone organized.  What boggled my mind was that Michonne looked as if she were never injured (facially),  and she said to Carl: I'll help you defend this place.  That made no sense to me.  Rosita idling in the rocker made no sense. 

  Not taking down Negan and the Savior leaders, who stepped out as if they were invincible, did not seem plausible. The wasting of the ammo by shooting upward, and shooting out windows, struck me as appalling and senseless.  Rick had started shooting at the countdown down. of 7 and struck no one on that balcony.  He kept shooting and shooting until Gabriel tried to pull him away.  I was really feeling that this was not really happening. 

Loved Darryl on the motorcycle and lighting up the explosives, but really? Too perfect.  No one was spotted/spied upon laying all the explosives and traps, the ambushes, the caravans, yet they could not escape anywhere undetected in the finale of S6??

The real kicker was they appeared to rendezvous at a field and, after Darryl and Rick's exchange,  Darryl said something to the effect of 'let's go'.  This after a shootout and a herd of walkers.   Yet Carol, Ezekiel, et al, were on foot at that Research building and what appeared to be a repeat of the arrow to the head takeout of a Savior and a lot of shooting and then the explosion.  I was completely puzzled and confused at this point.  Further, Carl was taking canned goods to the hungry man.  Did he actually leave the compound as his dad and others were out waginig war??  And once again the Independence Day speech as if they were about to set out for the first time (noting, as others had, that Fr.Gabriel was present).  WTF, I was thinking, they had not started yet,so everything that was shown was not real. Back to Swooning!Rick again (and ignoring the Old!Rick scene, at least for now), I suspected that whatever went down subsequently must not have ended well.  I couldn't hear the whole sentence, but he said 'Mercy...', the ep title. And, at the beginning (at a time uncertain), he was shown watching some graves.

I feel as if a dream; an injured Rick can't face what happened and, if he were injured- is having future dreams and he feels old and worn.  Any other theories.  I watched twice before posting. Maybe I missed some subtle moment or did not get the beginning/ending scenes.  I felt certain they were setting out for the first time.  I didn't quite catch it either time, but at the end, did Ezekiel say something about the first time leading to a second time,etc.?

They were in Hilltop.  I assumed the two graves were Abraham and Glenn, and Rick was paying his respects.

[Morrigan2575]

2 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

If they knew about the FPP thing, that would have been part of the speech.

"You, I say, you, are going to need, I say, your shitting pants. For shitting, that is. I say they just might to have to change your name, I say, nick, that is, to Father Shitting Pants. After I make you shit your pants. get it? Kind of like how they used to call you Father PEE pants, before, on account of how many times you peed, I say urinated that is, your pee pants. With pee, I say." Except it would be longer than that. And with more random leaning.

Why does your Negan sound like Foghorn Leghorn? ??

[millennium]

A new season with nothing new in it.  Not even a little bit.   

The writing is beyond awful.  "I hope you got your shitting pants on.  Because you're gonna shit your pants."  Really?  This is what you produce when you're a highly paid television writer?  

And that scene before the battle, everybody smiling and chatting like they're at a local swop meet.   Exchanging one liners like an eHarmony commercial?  wtf?

Speaking of commercials, the show was damn near unwatchable thanks to the gazillion commercial breaks.  

Seems to me Negan had a LOT more guys than the five or six we saw at the compound.   They were all gathered in the yard when Negan was saying "we're going to war" at the end of last season, now where are they?

Rick's fantasy sequence is hugely annoying.   You know what?  I don't want to speculate what's happening.  I don't want to guess.    Quit fucking with me and just tell the story, assholes.  

[GreyBunny]

That was so fucking STUPID. 

The Savior leadership was standing right there.  Shut up and SHOOT THEM!   Just machine gun them all and then call out to the rank and file hiding in the building to surrender.  If they came out with guns, shoot them too.  Jeez.   Of course, when they did finally open fire they have worse accuracy than stormtroopers.  Ugh.

Somebody please kill Gregory, he's not even fun to hate.   At least Simon tried by pushing him down the stairs; he gets Best Performance of the Night.

ETA: If this was a dream/fantasy sequence as some suspect, it was a really bloody idiotic one. In my dream, I wouldn't waste time on Bond Villain speeches, I'd shoot the fucker and call it a day.

Edited October 23, 2017 by GreyBunny

[spiderpig]

4 hours ago, Dobian said:

New season, and the show still hasn't lost its penchant for giving a character some annoying prop or affectation and forcing it on the viewers in every scene.  So now we have Tara and her twizzler stick.  Every time I watch TWD it's like tv writing 101.

New season, and the show still hasn't lost its penchant for choosing the crappiest song possible and playing it ad nauseum, whether it's with Daryl locked in a closet or Rick and Michonne in the future.

Thank you for pointing this out so I didn't have to.  I was hoping the close-ups and a few lines of throwaway dialogue meant Tara was going to bite it in this episode.  A terrible actress, and her character is unfailingly annoying.  (After several seasons of her plodding around slack-jawed all the time, I wondered if the writers/directors gave her the stick so she would keep her mouth shut for awhile.)

In last season's finale, didn't Jadis put a well-placed bullet in Rick's hip/groin/thigh?  I though he'd recovered right quick in this season opener, since they didn't seem to loll around before hitting The Sanctuary.  Maybe that obvious cane in the flash forwards gives some credence to the it's-all-a-dream theory.  I don't know, but add me to the Lost camp.

[Spartan Girl]

7 hours ago, xaxat said:

Gregory getting pushed down the stairs was the best laugh I had all day.

Too bad it didn't kill him.

Seriously, if the writers won't kill Neegan, they can at least kill Gregory. They owe us that.

Judith is getting so big. And I hope the Old Man Rick scenes weren't a dream sequence because I want the Richonne family intact.

[Save Yourself]

7 hours ago, MichaelaRae said:

But how would they really know that shooting Negan dead would make all of the other Saviors surrender? They've literally SEEN how the Saviors get brainwashed.

I don't think it really matters though, they should have just killed him regardless, even if the others didn't surrender Negan has to be put down for what he did to Glenn and Abraham and for terrorising all the other groups, including some of his own people. If this was a rational show they would have immediately shot all of the Saviours who stepped out sans Dwight and Eugene. (I think Dwight has earnt a second chance and it would be hard for them to kill Eugene even after his betrayal). Then they could have decided what to do with the rank and file Saviours and prisoners. There was no benefit whatsoever to not immediately killing Negan. 

[Save Yourself]

3 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

The Walking Dead is back doing what it does best: being entertaining enough for the most part, but continuing to fall short of what it is expected of it and what TPTB likely consider their show to be.

I mean, sure, the build up to the "war" was interesting and I was curious to see how everyone fit in it, but then it all just leads to them hiding behind panels, while Negan swaggers out in the open and rambles on again like Jeffery Dean Morgan would actually die if he quit speaking, while all of his lieutenants just hang out and smirk.  But Rick, Maggie, and crew don't kill them for.... reasons, I guess?  Yeah, yeah, even if Negan does die, I understand that it would not be the end of the Saviors, but his death (and possibly his lackeys) would still be a huge blow, and the advantage they need.  Sometimes the simplest solution works.  Really, all of this could have worked if they did have him include some kind of human shield and that's why no one wanted to take a shot.

This is what makes it so so annoying, all TPTB needed to do was make that tiny change and it would made it completely plausible. 

[Gobi]

I think the season will go like this: Every episode, Rick or someone else will miss a chance to kill Negan, while more of  the Saviors die. The last scene will be Negan, monologuing about how he's lost everything. He looks off camera and says, "You're my only hope." We hear a voice say "Don't worry, I'll take care of Rick." The camera pans over, and we see Madison Clark.

[festivus]

I don't know if it is because I was really tired last night, but I was so bored during that episode. You've got a problem when the only good thing about your episode is Another One Rides The Bus. I'm tired of the artsy fartsy crap. Walking Dead: You sir, are no Hannibal. Stop it!

[Haleth]

Why the hell didn't Rick (or anyone) just shoot Negan as soon as he showed up?  He struts around, speechifying, and no one thinks to shoot him?  Instead they waste thousands of bullets breaking the glass at the Sanctuary.  What??  I kept yelling at my tv but no one listened to me.

I did enjoy all the good guys being bad asses again, even if the most obvious course of action (shooting Negan) was ignored.

The jumping around in time was confusing.  

Edited October 23, 2017 by Haleth

[JackONeill]

Yes to not shooting Negan. Bad, very bad.

Yes to seeing our team performing like a team. Good, very good. Yay, Francine. (I’m the President and, sadly, the only member of her fan club. Kick ass, Girl.)(Can I say “girl” nowadays?)

But — with all the bullets fired at the end, I didn’t see a lot of Negan’s men getting killed. So what was the point? It wasn’t really an assault because all our team did was spray (repeatedly) Negan’s building, while standing behind fortification. Was the expectation that the Walkers would go INTO the building and eat anyone who was in there? I mean, I guess we saw a little of that, but, again, it wasn’t really a battle. Just wasted bullets. It was like a bunch of rednecks on the 4th of July — shooting their guns into the air to make noise. And there’s nothing more fun than drunk rednecks firing live ammunition.

Maybe instead of measuring dicks, Rick and Negan should measure stupidity?

[allyw]

This episode was better than last season's premiere but I was still underwhelmed and I'm probably going to continue to feel this way as long as Negan is still illogically on the show.  Kirkman & co needs to realize that television and graphic novels are two different mediums and what works on one may not work on the other.

[CletusMusashi]

Well, Eugene now has a hell of a lot more shells to make into bullets

[ghoulina]

I probably should have rewatched last season, because I spent the first half of this episode trying to remember what happened. 

Was it me, or were there 3 different times going on? Present with the fight against Negan. Future - with the house and Judith being much older. And random moments of Rick in the woods looking like he was crying? Am I really losing my mind, or is this show being obtuse and confusing on purpose? 

What I really want to know is - why is Negan still alive? I don't want to hear anything about the comics or Jeffrey Dean Morgan. The sole purpose of ASZ, HT, and The Kingdom is to kill Negan. They pull up in their corrugated metal cars (that was kind of clever), and are fairly well protected. Negan saunters right out there, nothing but that dumbass bat in hand. He's standing RIGHT there. Clear line of sight. All those damn rifles you got, someone couldn't just put a round in his chest? Give me a fucking break. 

And then, when he's alone in the room with FPP. Gabriel had a gun. Again, Negan just had his bat. The minute you hear his voice, turn around and let 'er rip. Seriously. Gabriel advanced so much last season and now he's turning back for that simpering sycophant, Gregory? Give me a break. 

Also, why is pregnant Maggie and CHILD Enid allowed to go to the gun fight, but Michonne isn't? I guess she's protecting ASZ? But why not have Maggie and Carl do that? 

The ending irritated me, that's all I have to say. 

[ghoulina]

9 hours ago, DearEvette said:

I did enjoy watching them unfurl the pieces of their plan.  Especially liked Dwight and Daryl's arrow-grams and the plucking out of Negan's scouts one by one.

Negan's "lookouts" were horrible. They must not have read the job description. I thought for as much as they built up Negan and his army and impenetrable fortress, it seemed too easy to take them all down. 

[ghoulina]

3 hours ago, millennium said:

Seems to me Negan had a LOT more guys than the five or six we saw at the compound.   They were all gathered in the yard when Negan was saying "we're going to war" at the end of last season, now where are they?

I think when the Tara/Carole/Morgan/Daryl crew caused the first big explosion on the highway, a bunch of Saviors took off to see what happened - leaving their compound not as defended. Where they actually ended up and who's planning on dealing with them is another story. 

 

3 hours ago, millennium said:

Rick's fantasy sequence is hugely annoying.   You know what?  I don't want to speculate what's happening.  I don't want to guess.    Quit fucking with me and just tell the story, assholes.

I agree. It's like they think if they throw in some "arty" shit they can bring this show back to Darabont levels of good storytelling, to compensate for all the ridiculous shit they've made us put up with - The Glenn fake out, Negan refusing to die, horrible CGI. But it ain't Darabont. It's just a big fail. 

[tricknasty]

10 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

And Rick's an old gray Methuselah, hobbling along with a cane.  Michonne doesn't even have a gray hair.  Why couldn't his fantasy include a little toddler Richonne?

Michonne is pregnant. You can't tell, cause gestation on this show takes years. Maggie's been pregnant 2 years now and ain't even showing.

[Lady Iris]

Was it me or did Coral's voice drop more than a few octaves? That was my biggest surprise for last night.

Great to see Daryl out of deep mope mode blowing up stuff.

How did Rick go from curly top to a straight buzz cut in the flash forward? I can't see how his hair would grow out that way.

Any ideas on who the Koran quoting guy is supposed to be?

Can anybody tell me how after all this time there is still any gasoline or oil to keep vehicles running is still around? It irks me way more than it should but I have trouble suspending my belief for this particular point.