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S16.E09: A Little Avant Garde


Drogo
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8 hours ago, PamelaMaeSnap said:

I thought ... and as usual I qualify this by saying my memory is not as reliable as it once was ... that the reason given for the twins' showdown ... because they couldn't say "Ratings! Gold!" was not that they couldn't decide which one that particular challenge was the weaker one and who'd been responsible for it, but that they knew they worked together a lot (which also leads me to believe that they were VERY well aware of all the "working together" they'd been doing unofficially in prior weeks) and as such they wanted a challenge where there was very definitively NO sharing, NO helping, NO working together so they could be sure to send home the weaker link.

Yes I agree, they may have been told that Claire was the person who designed the most and Shawn may have even told them she was the weaker designer but it enables them to assume more neutrality in not knowing this by setting up the showdown.

The judges never made a comment on the final judgement on Claire (and retrospectively Shawn I assume??) they just left it all to Tim.  Luckily Shawn didn't get a win in an earlier challenge.

It was mentioned earlier about earlier eliminated designers going home earlier because of all this.  I did feel earlier for Sentell anyway as he basically helped one of the twins (was it Shawn?) in their challenge and so neglecting his own.  Even back then I thought the twins helping each other (though it was more Claire helping Shawn) was a bit much.  Even in Shawn's final challenge Claire helped her to the detriment of her own, but this time Shawn was more honest.

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17 hours ago, CaughtOnTape said:

She and her stupid ponytail, pink lipstick, nose ringed ass can go home to Michigan and sew clothes for cats for all I care.

I'm sorry, but my cats have better taste than that.  Meowwrrr!

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7 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

You could achieve something similar by buying overruns of basic pieces, a hot glue gun and 50 pounds of crap from Joann's Fabrics. (see: Shock & Aww leather jackets)

I must be the most naive person on earth. Are you telling me those jackets weren't pieced by the twins, that they are just bedazzled? If so I take back every nice thing I may have once thought about them at one time. I thought that was the proof of some talent buried down there somewhere.

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28 minutes ago, Former Nun said:

And just as the entire storyline has been edited and manipulated by Production, so are we.  We share opinions of supporting or criticizing Margarita and (especially) Michael, but we don't know what really happened, step-by-step, who was involved, how many stepped forward--or when.  I prefer to wholeheartedly support Michael...and Margarita.   You know how it is when you've finally had it!  The fake drama on this show is getting worse as they try to prop/pump up ratings.

I've never had anything against Margarita even when the show seems to want to stir the edit up against her.  The twins annoyed most of the cast.

And I've never understood why every year people complain about designers giving opinions on other's designs in confessionals, it's part of the show.

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Margarita wasn't merely giving (snarky) opinions on the twins' work; she was shown from the git-go as their antagonist, mocking their speech patterns (Note: We here are not on TV), rolling her eyes in exasperation, inveigling Michael,  etc.

Ultimately, her behavior will not redound to her favor, regardless of any interim wins before the Finale. 

Let it be noted: The other winner this episode was Dixie Cup; the company saved $25K!

Edited by LennieBriscoe
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14 minutes ago, LennieBriscoe said:

<snip> Let it be noted: The other winner this episode was Dixie Cup; the company saved $25K!

Someone posted from Dixie's Twitter feed that Brandon WAS awarded the $25,000.00 prize by Dixie. I tried to find the post, but it may have been moved (as technically that was information that wasn't directly part of this episode).

Or, maybe I just missed it as I was scrolling through the pages!

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7 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

If one of my guy friends showed up in what resembles a gigantic cowhide baseball cover with lacing that exploded, I would laugh and laugh and laugh . . . . (trying to continue with the Seinfeld references)

The first look reminds me of an avant-garde straightjacket.

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10 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

ITA - and in this case, because the producers are the higher authority (like the police in an abuse case), it came off as, "Why didn't you tell me I was doing something wrong (even though I already knew I was doing something wrong) so that I could justify it to you and talk you out of reporting it to the people who could do something about it?" It's not a witness's responsibility to confront an abuser and tell them that what they're doing is wrong. But what makes it really stupid is that Claire KNEW she was breaking the rules and she's acting like the only reason she continued to cheat is that no one reminded her that she was breaking one of the rules. If someone had said, "Hey, Claire, you're not supposed to have a measuring tape at the apartment," are we really supposed to believe that Claire would have just stopped taking measurements and writing them down?

Exactly. "You should have come to me first so I could cover it up!" Girl, bye. You cheated, you know you cheated, you knew you were cheating when you were cheating, apparently it had been going on all season, and you got bounced. And you deserved it. No one's fault but yours. If what I've read here is true and the other designers had been complaining all season to no avail and Michael was the one to finally call it out on the runway where it couldn't be avoided, I say good for him. And they were clearly a very disruptive presence in the workroom, given how much calmer things were without them. I'm sure they won't be missed. I damn sure won't miss them. This was not a good showing for them - one of them looks like she can't actually design or sew, and the other is outed for cheating. Oops!

Quote

   ON 10/12/2017 AT 9:24 PM,  GINGERORMARYANN SAID: 

Okay, did you note how they paired the minority kids with the minority contestants?

I did. It was weird.

I thought for sure Brandon's would be in the bottom. He's headed for the finals for sure, and I won't like it if he wins.

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6 hours ago, Desert Rat said:

I think I've seen Craig Green's designs before.  Isn't he a designer for the Taliban?

aw16-runway-13.jpg?1053014739137513985

I think this is an absolute horror show.  Sometimes it amazes me how designers get away with this.  This could easily be a runway show in Zoolander.   It's a burka with a belt.  No, a burka would be more comfortable.  It's a sensory deprivation torture device.  I can picture the designer fussing and tweaking this outfit and exclaiming, "Now for the final touch!"  *shoe strings untied with a flourish*  "Perfection!"

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7 hours ago, Desert Rat said:

I think I've seen Craig Green's designs before.  Isn't he a designer for the Taliban?

aw16-runway-13.jpg?1053014739137513985

Runway fashion is rarely worn exactly as presented.  You see celebrities wearing something from a famous designer on the red carpet and then some program shows how it looked on the runway.  There is a difference. 

In this photo I can see someone wearing the pants or top separately paired with something else, less dramatic.  The head gear, no.  The message here is monochromatic olive brown. 

Designers often have bizarre head gear for the drama.   Jay McCarroll, winner of season one, had head phones on his models for effect.  

LOL at Taliban! 

Edited by wings707
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Quote

What puzzles me is that Claire told at least one designer (Michael) she had the tape, and even let him see her doing the measuring and writing down the dimensions.  Is she both stupid and a cheater?  As I said, it puzzles me

I think she felt entitled to "bend the rules" in her mind. She and Shawn collaborated way more than the norm for Project Runway and she thought nothing of it. She also knocked off other people's looks without a second thought. I think this goes back to the upbringing she and Shawn had.

Edited by Jsage
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18 hours ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

Oh, I don't blame Michael - I really did have two questions. Why that fabric choice (I STILL doubt it's efficacy), and what the hell, editors? The poor girl's nipples were plainly visible on HDTV. Seemed extra exploitative. 

In addition to being a model, Meisha is a professional business development manager.   She has a background in mechanical/industrial engineering and a Harvard education.    She was also a teaching fellow at Harvard.   Impressive young woman.  And you're right, the person who does the blurring on the show must have been asleep at the switch.

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It bothered me that there were no armholes in the Magenta Monster Cupcake.  Of course, Avant Garde is loosely translated as "Unwearable by live humans", but couldn't Ayana at least throw some slits into the seams of one of the layers?  Lyris could have done a cheeky hands-on-hips pose to seal the deal. 

Otherwise, I'm happy with the way everything ended. 

Though I think every season they should have 1 aufed contestant near the end, to act as peer mentor to the remaining contestants.  Amy would have been perfect to assist Tim in keeping folks on track and on theme.  While her designs weren't stellar, I think she was a positive presence when one was sorely needed in the work room.   Mentor 2.0

And Kentaro, with his tiny little Jackie Chan face and sweet disposition just continues to delight me.  I hope some big design company scoops him up after this and makes him a star.  

Edited by leighdear
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1 minute ago, millennium said:

In addition to being a model, Meisha is a professional business development manager.   She has a background in mechanical/industrial engineering and a Harvard education.    She was also a teaching fellow at Harvard.   Impressive young woman.  And you're right, the person who does the blurring on the show must have been asleep at the switch.

Maybe not asleep at the switch. Don't forget, this is Harvey Weinstein production.

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14 hours ago, Chippings said:

But also -- the raised, asymmetrical collar on I think it was Amy's outfit reminded me, but only kind of lamely, of a piece that Chris March and Christian Siriano did in their season when they had gone to the art museum for inspiration, and they did a gi-normous piece, with a collar that rose over the model's head.  It was FABulous.  And because they were asking for something special (which Avant Garde should be), they gave them enough time.  Of all the pieces ever on this show, that one stays in my mind.  Those were designers, folks.  

I immediately thought the same thing too!  I think that ruffled confection of theirs is still one of the most amazing things to come out of this show.  

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4 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

Margarita wasn't merely giving (snarky) opinions on the twins' work; she was shown from the git-go as their antagonist, mocking their speech patterns (Note: We here are not on TV), rolling her eyes in exasperation, inveigling Michael,  etc.

Ultimately, her behavior will not redound to her favor, regardless of any interim wins before the Finale. 

Let it be noted: The other winner this episode was Dixie Cup; the company saved $25K!

It looked like just about every designer was annoyed by them, others commented on what they did as well.  They definitely edited in expressions as well at points, that's what's always done.  Having reality shows without contestants giving opinions of others would be pointless. 

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7 hours ago, dleighg said:

I must be the most naive person on earth. Are you telling me those jackets weren't pieced by the twins, that they are just bedazzled? If so I take back every nice thing I may have once thought about them at one time. I thought that was the proof of some talent buried down there somewhere.

No, no. I'm sorry. I was just trying to make a joke. There is no reason to suspect that they took shortcuts to make their Shock and Aww leather embellished jackets. I was just commenting on the end result look of the jackets. 

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On 10/12/2017 at 9:26 PM, RedSoxRock said:

Brandon's looks exactly like everything he makes. How are the judges not seeing this?

My guess is that they are holding their tongue until the time is ripe.  They'll string Brandon along as long as a top dog as long as it helps them knock out other contestants.  When it gets down to the wire, they'll say something.  

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21 minutes ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Did we ever see the moment during which Batani is sobbing and other designers are trying to comfort her?

No we didn't.  She had her head in her hands, not sure she was sobbing.  I thought it might have been from another situation and nothing to do with the cheating.   Or they had enough footage for the episode but wanted to put that in preview, most reality TV does this.  

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19 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

I understand, but if we require all of those to speak out to be pure of intentions, act with only clean hands, receive no benefit from speaking out, and ...be likable, well, that's the culture we have now and it's a problem. I've been guilty of that as well, "Why didn't he say something sooner?" and "I just don't like the way she went about disclosing" and then I minimize the allegation. And that is wrong of me. So very very wrong of me. 

Ultimately, Claire cheated, she broke the rules, and was rightfully removed from the competition for breaking those rules, no matter that the disclosure of her rule-breaking came in a classless manner from dislikable people. 

I'm guess for me it's not so stark, in the sense that, after thinking about it more, to me it's fair in this situation specifically to think everyone could have done better. I'm not super critical of or offended by Michael or Margarita, I also can't applaud them. Other situations, like Weinstein, I have a different perspective. 

I'd forgotten about the dolls. So, there will now be a child's toy dressed as a melting disco ball? That doesn't feel super playful. 

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40 minutes ago, Jextella said:

My guess is that they are holding their tongue until the time is ripe.  They'll string Brandon along as long as a top dog as long as it helps them knock out other contestants.  When it gets down to the wire, they'll say something.  

"string" Brandon along....I see what you did there! 

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On 10/12/2017 at 9:17 PM, DasFlavorPup said:

Holy SHIT, Margarita.  You TOTALLY started this.  You aren't in the wrong, but OWN it, you whiny anus!

Michael, get the fuck over yourself.  Claire, as much as she can fuck off, was also right - this was completely because of the money.

I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and say this wasn't because of the money. I think they were so done with the twins and this was the straw that broke the camel's back. Her winning for a design that she cheated on. They were probably hoping that they would soon be eliminated because of their lack of creativity.

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1 hour ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

No, no. I'm sorry. I was just trying to make a joke. There is no reason to suspect that they took shortcuts to make their Shock and Aww leather embellished jackets. I was just commenting on the end result look of the jackets. 

Look at this jacket.  The shortcuts are that they don't actually make them.  To me, there is NO WAY that either twin would be constructing the jacket then cutting the leather designs and sewing them onto the jackets.  They MIGHT have come up with the original applique designs, but I refuse to believe that they make the base jacket and then hand-piece and sew the designs on the back.  I just don't.  I think they buy the individual jackets wholesale and have someone outsourced to do all the embellishment labor.   4 to 6 weeks for production means somebody else is doing all the work. 

https://shockandawww.com/collections/mens/products/concrete-jungle-leather-bomber

And yes, these views a just my opinion, based on watching these 2 cheating cheaters who cheat.  

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On 10/13/2017 at 9:55 AM, alalaxmom said:

Kentaro. Is. Adorable.

I loved his happy little wave when they introduced him to his Shopkins fan partner.

And this exchange had me rolling:

Kentaro to Kenya multiple times: "Sauna?", Kenya: "Salmon?", Kentaro: "Yes, salmon, Santa Claus, Merry Christmas Kenya!!"

Dude, this made my night!

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Kentaro was definitely full of beans this episode, what with the Sauna-to-Santa progression, trying on the ruffle-bow dress, and just generally.  I wonder if he was feeling the general lightness of being free of the cheater (I think they all were) and this is how it came out in him.  

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25 minutes ago, Jobiska said:

Kentaro was definitely full of beans this episode, what with the Sauna-to-Santa progression, trying on the ruffle-bow dress, and just generally.  I wonder if he was feeling the general lightness of being free of the cheater (I think they all were) and this is how it came out in him.  

I think this is exactly right.  

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7 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

 Yes,  the prize money was awarded to Brandon; both he and DC announced this. Why the SHOW did not is a puzzlement.

There's something fishy about this... Brandon's good, but really?

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20 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Someone on Jezebel said Brandon's clothing looked British designer Craig Green. It really does. Brandon's trademark isn't that original.

https://craig-green.com/collections/aw16-runway

The A/W 2017 video...OMG...I would love to see some guy in my midwest town walking down the street (and trying not to trip) wearing one of those outfits that look like someone flung throw rugs at a body.  Hard to dispute the similarity to Brandon's use of hanging bits of fabric though in much of that collection.  

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I wish Ayana had won. She nailed it.

Amy's look was really awful and I think she deserved to be on the bottom. Watching her cry made me so sad. I'm hoping Tim's going to surprise everyone and use his save for Amy at the beginning of next episode. I like her and sorry to see her go.

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On 10/12/2017 at 10:19 PM, TexasGal said:

I loved how she kept saying “I measured a TANK TOP!” Like that made it no big deal.  Except you’re supposed to be a designer and you apparently can’t figure out how to make a TANK TOP without measuring one secretly.  So, spare me your indignation please.  

Ha! That reminds me that when I was 12 or so I made myself a  yellow tank top, yellow wide legged pants and red  jacket - all without any patterns. This was in the  mid 80's and in former Czechoslovakia so the only nice clothes you could get was if you have someone made them from Western patterns book like Burda  or have some relatives abroad that sent you something. Stores sucked big times. I had my clothes made a lot by seamstress as luckily my grandparents could afford to pay for it but this one time I decided do it myself. I actually ended up wearing it for couple seasons but afterwards never made a single thing as it was so difficult lol... Claire not being able to make tank top without measuring one is so fucked up.

Edited by ava111
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They had to change things up regarding the Dixie prize once Claire was shit-canned.  The judges probably just casually voted on who's garment had the most attractive design that would translate well to the surface of a cup, and Brandon was chosen.  His print was prominently featured on his garment and it was a graphic with appropriate commercial appeal.   

Nothing about that print would offend anybody, so I'm thinking it was an easy choice.  I imagine Dixie had already poured a crap-load of money into the Project Runway tie-in, so they HAD to choose something.  That 25K was probably just a drop in the bucket compared to what they had already spent, so Brandon got lucky.  

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On ‎10‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 10:24 AM, alalaxmom said:

Branching away from the cheating scandal:

Kentaro. Is. Adorable.

I loved his happy little wave when they introduced him to his Shopkins fan partner.

And the following exchange (somewhat paraphrased) absolutely cracked me up:

Kentaro repeating multiple times to Kenya: "Sauna?" 

Kenya: "Salmon?"

Kentaro: "Salmon, Santa Claus, Merry Christmas Kenya!!"

I love Kentaro. He makes me smile and laugh so much almost every time the edit monkeys turn the camera in his direction.  That's one of the many things that pisses me off about how much camera time the demented twins were given.  If they weren't there, we would have gotten a lot more Kentaro time, and I suspect it would have been delightful. 

As for Claire.  The contestants are not allowed to work on their designs outside of the workroom.  The contestants are not allowed to have tape measures in their rooms.  The contestants are not allowed to have pens or pencils in their rooms.  There's no argument that Claire did all three of these things.  I don't understand why there's any defense of her. 

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In all the seasons I've watched (and I've watched them all), Batani was the happiest auf'ed contestant I've ever seen at the beginning of the episode.  In fact, I think she was so happy that she purposely created that monstrosity so that she could be auf'ed again.  She probably ran out of that studio so fast she didn't even get the, "You haven't seen the last of me" montage!

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2 minutes ago, Former Nun said:

Kentaro Time !!!     A new series on  ______________.

Well, if it's about a fashion designer who is GOOD at what he does, maintains a pleasant disposition, and doesn't cheat, we know it won't be on Lifetime.

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In case anyone's forgotten: we have rules here against being rude to other posters. 

If someone's breaking that rule, report their comment and don't engage - that's how you become part of the solution and not the problem.

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6 hours ago, amazingracefan said:

Having reality shows without contestants giving opinions of others would be pointless. 

Do we Americans require that they be so negative and snarky?   "The Great British Baking Show" is very popular in the U.K. and here.  Besides interesting competitions, it's SO REFRESHING to have not one contestant backbiting another...in all seasons.  They made self-deprecating comments, but in general work hard on their own creations, encourage each other, and make the occasional sympathetic comment when they see what's going wrong.  It's very entertaining to watch.  I'm sure there are other examples.  We've gotten too accustomed to "mean."

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I'm from the same area in MI that the twins are from. Believe you me, it's no fashion capital whatsoever. They really gave us a bad name. When the show was getting ready to premier, the local news announced there would be a "watch party" with the twins in attendance. I'm so glad I didn't go. After watching them week after week, their dysfunctional co-dependence was too much to take. The over-pronunciation of words (indeed!) drove me nuts. Mr. SopranoKris (begrudingly) watches the show with me and he even said "I hope to God they get rid of those awful, entitled twins!" He gleefully cheered "good-bye cheater!" when they auf'd Claire. 

My take on the whole M&M situation: no one wants to be the "tattle-tale". When they (and presumably other) designers learned that Claire/Shawn were using a measuring tape and writing down measurements to bring back to the workroom, no one said anything because they didn't want to be the "snitch". As a point of pride, you'd rather win on your own merits. I can see the thought process would be "let them hang themselves with their own rope". When Margarita saw the muslin design looked just like her top from the previous week, I can see why she'd be upset. We saw Shawn completely rip off the pants her model was wearing and the top she was wearing in the model challenge. However, when Claire changed the top to a different design, I thought Margarita would let it drop. However, now that we know they had already witnessed the cheating, I can see why it was eating her up. And then to get rewarded for cheating by getting the win. Yes, I can definitely see why Michael made his protest. It certainly wasn't right, nor fair, what Claire did.

And for Claire to keep saying "it was ONLY a tank top!" just goes to show how little remorse she has for breaking the rules. She deserved what she got.

I would have preferred that M&M acted like adults and pulled her aside and said "hey, I noticed you had an illegal tape measure. Stop it or I'll report you" and "don't you think your top looks a little bit like mine?" while she was designing, instead of all the back-biting. However, I can understand why it happened. Again, no one wants to be perceived as a snitch. Put cash money on the line with it and that's a bomb waiting to explode. I'm sure the producers were drooling!

On to better things: my like for Kentaro just increased 100% with his playfulness this week. Too funny! "Don't take any tape measures" :)

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1 hour ago, shksabelle said:

Cotypubby and the rest of the group,

my apologies. I did not mean to spoil anything or to flout any rules. I was just so happy at the outcomes that I posted without  thinking I was spoiling. 

Apologies to @Drogo for continuing this OT discussion, but was @shksabelle's post about that game show result actually a spoiler? I think on "that" forum, everything is fair game after 6 pm eastern time on the day it is aired. What are the rules for cross posting on another forum? Sorry for my ignorance.

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I'm wondering if the Producers etc. already knew and had footage of her, or if they searched her room.  Because I don't see her flatly admitting things to them the way they did unless they had hard proof.  If they didn't, she might have had grounds for legal action.  But I'm sure I'm over thinking things.

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Claire has no remorse, and doesn't think she cheated: http://www.mylifetime.com/shows/project-runway/playlist/season-16-behind-the-seams

M & M were in a tough spot. If they bring up their concerns, they can easily be edited to look as if they're bad sports or have sour grapes. All the contestants had made comments to the producers/cameras about the twins copying and helping each other, and those were dismissed. So I can see M & M being very frustrated and wondering at what point is it a gray area and what point has the line been crossed. Apparently the tape measure and writing down measurements were the big no-no. But I definitely think the twins should have been warned before that of the constant helping and the blatant copying. It really wasn't fair to the other contestants who had to work things out on their own.

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On 10/13/2017 at 1:01 AM, movingtargetgal said:

My niece just turned 11 yrs old and a few years ago she was obsessed with Shopkins.  This year I asked her what Shopkins she "needed" for her birthday.  She looked at me and said "I'm not into that crap anymore.  Honestly auntie, I don't know what the heck I was thinking.  That whole thing was totally lame."  I ended up getting her a lighted make up mirror that she absolutely loves.  The little girl is gone and a preteen has taken her place. :(   

Wait a few years and then give her Fashion Royalty doll she will appreciate way more. They are line created by Jason Wu. He actually started as doll designer when he was 16 for Integrity toys. They gave him to design a completely new doll line that came out in 2002 for adult collectors. He is still involved although after he got so big and his people line so successful his actual work is very limited. I think he is like creative director but doesn't design as he is so busy with his own line and Hugo Boss where he is artistic director. Integrity toys actually is releasing 10 dolls wearing his real people designs for 10th anniversary of his. Second came out on Friday but I didn't even try to get her as it would be impossible with only 200 dolls released plus I'm pretty broke. I do have the first one from January. I have been collecting his dolls since they came out in 2002 and have hundreds. Actually I met him few times as he always attends Integrity toys Fashion Royalty convention. I remember hoping one day he would go on Project runway as a designer but instead he was there as a judge about 5 years ago? I'm so proud of him to get that far from doll designing to First lady wearing his dress at inauguration twice! 

Here I found an article where it is actually mentioned as it is not well known how he started.

http://wwd.com/fashion-news/designer-luxury/jason-wu-10-years-nyfw-michelle-obama-10779973/

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