S16.E09: A Little Avant Garde

[tessat]

8 hours ago, Mockingbird said:

I mentioned to my roommate that all I could see with Michael’s piece was a disco alien dick. So of course he wins. But at least Brandon didn’t win for doing what he does every week, but slightly worse, this week. 

I was shocked Michael won - when I looked at that I thought someone with elephantitis. It was totally different from the look he first drew and was horrible across her chest. I thought for sure Brandon was going to be in the bottom three. I personally like the guy but it's the same thing from him everytime and I saw nothing Avante Gard. I thought Anya, Kenya and Kentaro were going to be the top three.

[tessat]

8 hours ago, doodlebug said:

The only idea his young partner had was chocolate, and more chocolate.  It would've been pretty unfair if he'd had to design something brown, covered in brown splotches which is what she wanted.  I think Tim was aware that this particular 'superfan' wasn't filled with inspiration which is why he told Brandon to do his own thing.  Creating something 'avant-garde' is tough enough, doing it in shades of poop and dirt would be near impossible.  As it was, his dress looked pretty awful and just more of the same from him.

Yep, they are going to make a Shopkins doll wearing a version of it.  Making a silver jumpsuit is going to be simpler and cheaper than recreating that huge pink cupcake with a bow and leggings and I expect that played a big role in the decision.

I personally like the design he first drew with the chocolate splotches on it - since this design is going to be replicated for a shopkin - it could have been a new outfit for Chocolate what's her name. Maybe I'm looking at this challenge differently - it's a challenge to me for a new shopkin outfit - not for a garment someone will wear out - that's why Brandon's, Amy's and Bhatani's didn't fit the challenge for me. I could definitely see Anya's, Kenya's and Kentaro's outfits on a shopkin.

[LennieBriscoe]

The avant-garde aspect of Brandon's design was the huge up-turned "cuffs" at the sides.  Zac loved them. 

Amy's outfit was incomprehensible and dull. I found her wasting time talking with her child "client" to be weird.  Battani can't seem to design for anyone but herself; she peaked at her audition. Auf Wiedersehen!

Anaya was avant-garde, Shopkins colorful, AND true to her "modesty" vision.

She and Kentaro have grown and progressed the most,  IMO. 

Edited October 13, 2017 by LennieBriscoe

[susannot]

6 hours ago, LotusFlower said:

This stood out to me, too.  She very defensively said: "they can take it" (the measuring tape).  Essentially she was saying ok, so I cheated, but it's in the past.  If you're all so bothered by it, I won't cheat anymore.  And she was so pissy about it, too.  Like she was making some grand concession to not cheat anymore.

Not only was it not fair to the remaining designers, but it wasn't fair to those that were aufed before her, too. 

Yes. that part made me want to throw an anvil at Claire through my TV.  As if all would be well if Claire just shared her tape measure with the other designners.  No doubt in her super entitled snowflake little brain she thought "they're just jealous because they didn't think of it first."

[Beden]

So I'm thinking that the reunion show (which, I believe, all the contestants are contractually required to attend) will be more interesting than the usual snooze-fest this year. So--the twins will be back, at least for a bit.

[Miss Ruth]

49 minutes ago, LennieBriscoe said:

The avant-garde aspect of Brandon's design was the huge up-turned "cuffs" at the sides. 

Kentaro suggested that "apron" to Brandon.

[Lamb18]

I'm watching the episode now. Word for Michael and Margarita: you don't have to be ashamed for bringing this up. Claire cheated. She is under the same rules as everyone else and I'm sure she had the same opportunity to read them and acknowledge that she read them. This isn't a group of school friends with their "code of honor" about not tattling, this is an adult competition with valuable prizes at stake. There is no disloyalty involved. Claire broke the "code of honor" and the one who was disloyal, not Michael and Margarita. She had the arrogance to think she was above the rules and they didn't apply to her..

Probably many other posts with the same thoughts, but I wanted to say this first before I started reading posts.

[hoodooznoodooz]

9 hours ago, Bunnifly said:

Also the sponsors and prizes for this season seem really cheap compared yo others makes me wonder if companies don't want to be associated with PR and more or of production is being cheap

The sponsors definitely seem to be less upscale and relevant each season, with the possible exception of the car sponsor. Can anyone confirm? Lexus has been a sponsor pretty consistently or often, no? 

[Bunnifly]

I like Brandon and his clothes. I find it interesting to watch him grow as a designer . 

 

 

Claire broke the rules and she knew it. There is no way the rule about no one, no paper, no measuring tape wasn't explained and I imagine she signed paperwork stating that she understood the rules.

 

She didn't seem remorseful about cheating. She didn't own up to it. She kept defending that she just measured the crotch of pants and a tank top until she got caught saying it was at home. That s not owning up to it. She sounded like she regretted getting caught in her interview . If she was owning up to it she wouldn't have kept denying it until she had no choice. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

Never mind

Edited October 13, 2017 by Ms Blue Jay

[TwirlyGirly]

10 hours ago, DasFlavorPup said:

<snip>  Particularly since the show has never been able to really articulate what it is, and the judges never really explain to my satisfaction what makes one avant garde and the other a hot mess. <snip>

Avant-garde is tricky. From Wikipedia:

"The avant-garde...(from French, "advance guard" or "vanguard", literally "fore-guard") are people or works that are experimental, radical, or unorthodox with respect to art, culture, or society. It may be characterized by nontraditional, aesthetic innovation and initial unacceptability, and it may offer a critique of the relationship between producer and consumer." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avant-garde#See_also )

As applied to fashion, in general the goal is to create an art piece (something you might see in a museum), as opposed to something wearable. It has to be "wearable" in the sense that a model must be able to put it on (or, be able to be put on a mannequin), but not something anyone would wear.

Like any other art, avant-garde fashion may make a statement (political, social, etc) or have meaning which is expressed through the fabric (color, texture, print, etc) as well as the shapes used. Avant-garde fashion doesn't have to be pretty or flattering. I've grabbed some pictures of avant-garde fashions from Google. I feel these really show the best of what avant-garde fashion is.

 

9 hours ago, doodlebug said:

The only idea his young partner had was chocolate, and more chocolate.  It would've been pretty unfair if he'd had to design something brown, covered in brown splotches which is what she wanted.  <snip>

Ah ha! But you know what? I went back and rewatched the segment with Brandon talking to his little girl, and not ONCE did she say "brown," nor did Brandon!

WHITE chocolate, anyone? He could have totally gotten away with that. I think he just got stuck on the chocolate = brown thing from the get-go (apparently the post-production folks did too, because they splattered brown splotch graphics all over the screen during the end of Brandon's segment), and since he couldn't figure out a way to incorporate that, just threw the entire idea of chocolate out completely.

 

9 hours ago, CherryMalotte said:

<snip> I like avant garde when it's really avant garde,  something totally fantastic and barely wearable, when it's more a piece of art.  I didn't get that vibe from any of the designers. <snip>

And you win the prize, because that's precisely what avant-garde is! Art. Not wearable clothing.

 

2 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

 <snip> "Avant-garde" is, or ought to be, incompatible with mass production, and maybe also with the fashion sense of children. 

True, but the designers were told Shopkins would create a doll inspired by the winning look. After hearing that, I would have been less concerned about whether the silhouette/structure of my design would translate well to a doll , and perhaps look to colors/textures that would.

IMO, Ayana's look best satisfied the "avant-garde" aspect of the challenge, and I believe she nailed the colors/fabrics most likely to appeal to young children. I would have given her the win.

[LennieBriscoe]

But Miss Ruth, even though an apron has wide sides when open, the turned-up cuff design element was totally Brandon's vision.

TwirlyGirly, There is no "But," as you and I are saying the same thing about what "avant-garde" means, including that "Ayana's look best satisfied the "avant-garde" aspect of the challenge,..."

Edited October 13, 2017 by LennieBriscoe

[RedbirdNelly]

11 hours ago, Kit Kat said:

Michael and Margarita both telling the camera they could have handled that differently. No, really? You think? I'm no fan of Claire, but that was all for the dramatics and wanting to cause drama and attention and was completely ridiculous. I now am waiting for you two to go home. 

Anyway, I don't know what the hell Shopkins are, but judging from the looks of them, this could actually be a pretty cool Avant Garde challenge. We shall see. 

I so agree with this. I didn't like Claire but felt bad for her and hated how M&M handled this. Plus Michael's snarky commentary about Brandon running out of ideas. I'm not a huge fan of Brandon's designs but right now I just want Michael not to win. His behavior was awful. If you see cheating, report it. You don't need to stage a walk off the runway.

And I didn't pay attention during the Shopkin explanation so still don't really get what they are.

[njbchlover]

6 hours ago, Former Nun said:

This needs to be read again and again!   Thank you, VagueDisclaimer.  I'm so tired of lamebrained producers expecting us to watch their ideas of "great TV."   Most Project Runway viewers just want to see what is really going on with the CREATIONS in the workroom.  We don't need to see manufactured drama.  There's enough real-world drama on television; just give us some good fashion by some real designers, people!  Note to Katy Perry: please don't give The Cheatin' Twosome another job to brag about.

Former Nun - Regarding your comment about Katy Perry - that was one of the things that I thought of when I saw Ayana's finished look - that it wouldn't surprise me to see Katy Perry wearing something very similar at one of her future performances - designed by the twins!!  :-)

[Lamb18]

12 hours ago, gingerormaryann said:

Okay, did you note how they paired the minority kids with the minority contestants?

Yes, I noticed and wondered if it was just me.

[Former Nun]

9 minutes ago, RedbirdNelly said:

If you see cheating, report it. You don't need to stage a walk off the runway.

Reports are that he and another (others?) DID report it to producers and nothing was done.  Sometimes we have to take a knee.

[RedbirdNelly]

2 minutes ago, Former Nun said:

Reports are that he and another (others?) DID report it to producers and nothing was done.  Sometimes we have to take a knee.

If that was true, then that helps his case--but perhaps he should have reported to Tim in the work room on camera earlier. . . And I don't see why they wanted to wrap it up with claims of copying designs.

I have no issue with Claire getting cut due to cheating--absolutely right call--but there seemed to be a lot of unnecessary snark along the way. Maybe it's editing.

Right now rooting for Kentaro.

[Former Nun]

31 minutes ago, Bunnifly said:

She didn't seem remorseful about cheating. She didn't own up to it. She kept defending that she just measured the crotch of pants and a tank top until she got caught saying it was at home.

She and her sister measured more than two items of clothing.  Claire helped her sister cheat as long as she lasted.  I'm sure if their classmates (lifelong) find this forum we'll have lots of fun scams they were involved in.

Edited October 13, 2017 by Former Nun

[Wings]

2 hours ago, tessat said:

I personally like the design he first drew with the chocolate splotches on it - since this design is going to be replicated for a shopkin - it could have been a new outfit for Chocolate what's her name. Maybe I'm looking at this challenge differently - it's a challenge to me for a new shopkin outfit - not for a garment someone will wear out - that's why Brandon's, Amy's and Bhatani's didn't fit the challenge for me. I could definitely see Anya's, Kenya's and Kentaro's outfits on a shopkin.

This was an avant garde challenge like any other, not a design for a Shopkin to wear.   The Shopkins were for inspiration.  They may manufacture one that is vaguely like Michael's silver number but that was not the point.  It was a jumping off place to give them some direction.  

The judges did not want to see a brown creation thus Tim telling Brandon to just go with whatever he wanted to do.  

18 minutes ago, Former Nun said:

Reports are that he and another (others?) DID report it to producers and nothing was done.  Sometimes we have to take a knee.

Yes.  Amy said in her podcast that they all reported Claire cheating to production but they did not act on it earlier.  

We heard Tim say, "others disagree."  That made no sense at the time because we didn't see anyone with the opposing opinion.  The other opinions were production when she was reported during the season. 

I have a hunch no one mentioned the tape measure she had in the apartment earlier.  They may not have seen she had one until this last challenge.  They were probably just voicing her ripping off designs from others and her own wardrobe.  The judges and Tim did mention that getting inspiration from others is what all designers do.  

Using the tape measure was a tangible offense that was cheating so she went.  The other complaints were too vague.  Had they reported the tape measure earlier, she probably would have been auffed at that time.  

Edited October 13, 2017 by wings707

[alalaxmom]

Kentaro. Is. Adorable.

I loved his happy little wave when they introduced him to his Shopkins fan partner.

And this exchange had me rolling:

Kentaro to Kenya multiple times: "Sauna?", Kenya: "Salmon?", Kentaro: "Yes, salmon, Santa Claus, Merry Christmas Kenya!!"

[dleighg]

5 minutes ago, wings707 said:

We heard Tim say, "others disagree."  That made no sense at the time because we didn't see anyone with the opposing opinion. 

 

I thought he was just referring to "the judges liked Claire's stuff." Personally I thought Claire's "winning" design looked like something I could buy at pretty much any retail store, like Kohls, or .... JC Penny. Boring. The print was "ok."

[Wings]

Just now, dleighg said:

I thought he was just referring to "the judges liked Claire's stuff." Personally I thought Claire's "winning" design looked like something I could buy at pretty much any retail store, like Kohls, or .... JC Penny. Boring. The print was "ok."

I thought so at first, too and that may be true.  Since production had been aware of their issues I doubt if they were  ignored.  I think it was discussed and Tim was privy to all of it.  That is where I went anyway.  lol

[Former Nun]

5 hours ago, JyDanzig said:

Michael, though... ugh.  He behaved like such an immature brat.  Talk about squandering a winning hand!  I came out of this with less respect for him than I have for the obnoxious cheater!

I hope later postings have changed your opinion...just a little.

[amazingracefan]

Wasn't there even a remark the previous episode that the print resembled something off one of her own clothes as well?

[Former Nun]

24 minutes ago, RedbirdNelly said:

If that was true, then that helps his case--but perhaps he should have reported to Tim in the work room on camera earlier. . .

We never know how much is said by whom to whom.   Things are edited, taken out of context, inserted for drama and (often) to make us like Production's favorites.   I can't imagine that many liked the twins, but again, it's "good TV."   

[Wings]

1 hour ago, TwirlyGirly said:

True, but the designers were told Shopkins would create a doll inspired by the winning look.

And Dixie would create a cup inspired by a design.  Inspire can mean anything they choose.   Dixie and Shopkins pay for advertising just to be on the show.  They are not picky, they just want their name out there.   Who the hell has ever heard of Shopkins?  

Edited October 13, 2017 by wings707

[seasquared]

Who says Claire lacks outside inspiration? Her facial expressions in the first five minutes of the episode have been a stunning homage to the respective hand and arm movements from the interpreter at Nelson Mandela’s funeral. Her facial expressions are depicting a series of mild strokes like the ones that raged through Sarah Palin’s being during her infamous “Kick ISIS’s ass” endorsement speech. I haven’t seen such problematic facials since . . .

(I don’t know if I’ll allowed to finish that sentence.)

This is the most ridiculous ensemble of actors since the Blaine Community Players. If they followed up Red, White, & Blaine with My (T)win was Literally Hit by a Truck of Shitsh Oh! Cal Cut-a-Bitch! this is it.

“My top was different from anything I own.” Now Claire is quoting random Grindr profiles. I guess that’s reasonably strategic given the show’s target audience.

Michael’s seriously sincere confessionals might be slightly more convincing if he wasn’t wearing a geometrically precisely rakish beret and a necklace with a miniature cock ring on it, but given the show’s target audience. . . .

Bubbleisha? Is the Zac Posen’s drag alter ego? A chewing gum flavor inspired by my favorite sitcom of all time, Moesha? A euphemism for an illegally-measured top?

Somewhere, Santino is throwing epic shade at Ebony’s attempt at a “Make It Work” song. With apologies to the Beatles, may I suggest:

When I throw the twins under the school bus

And you think that I’m a jerk

Tim Gunn speaks his wisdom

Make it work

 

When Amy puts on hair gel

Like in There’s Something About Mary

Watching Heidi’s acting

Bothers me

 

Make it work, make it work, make it work, make it work

Season 16 sucks ass

And that samurai topknot hairstyle is so 2012 it’s not working

Don’t defend the hair to me

You had me at Santino. This song is EPIC!!

[susannot]

OMG TwirlyGirly thanks for those avant-garde designs.  They are batshit insane, especially the last one.

[Lamb18]

10 hours ago, NorthstarATL said:

Now THIS is where you could get a team win! Roughly the same shape as Ayana's, the sparkly essence of M & M, and you open up and get the chocolate that Brandon's fan wanted!

I completely misremembered that! Maybe I was still annoyed with Michael over Tapegate?

Brandon's straps are like the little white piece of paper that says KISSES.

[backgroundnoise]

Quote

Claire grew on me last night.... To quote Harley Quinn "She owned that sh&#!" And I respect her for that.

I respectfully but vehemently disagree.  Claire didn't own it, she tried to diminish it, saying it was no big deal.  Like Keith in S3 saying, "Yeah I had the books but I don't think I used them to cheat."   Respect should go to the designers who didn't cheat.  Actually, maybe not because people shouldn't get kudos for just being honest--that should be a given.   All this just MHO and I'll get off my soapbox now.

 

Quote

when I looked at that I thought someone with elephantitis.

Hee.  That pretty much sums up my opinion of every avante garde outfit created for this show ever.

[Wings]

46 minutes ago, Lamb18 said:

12 hours ago, gingerormaryann said:

Okay, did you note how they paired the minority kids with the minority contestants?

Yes, I noticed and wondered if it was just me.

I noticed this too.  I think they might have done that to afford the kids maximum comfort since being on camera can be intimidating. 

1 minute ago, backgroundnoise said:

I respectfully but vehemently disagree.  Claire didn't own it, she tried to diminish it, saying it was no big deal.  Like Keith in S3 saying, "Yeah I had the books but I don't think I used them to cheat."   Respect should go to the designers who didn't cheat.  Actually, maybe not because people shouldn't get kudos for just being honest--that should be a given.   All this just MHO and I'll get off my soapbox now.

I agree.  When it hit her that, indeed, she was in the wrong, was when Tim came in and said her name.  Claire.  She looked in the air, tilted her head and responded like a petulant brat.  But really she was horrified and didn't know how to act.  She was caught.  THEN she owned it.  lol   

[Heathrowe]

I thought the idea with the pairings of the designers & kids was that the kids were little "mini me's" to the designers. Like little dolls.  I would need to go back and rewatch, but I thought all of the designers and kids resembled each other.

I don't really understand the whole Claire-measuring tape thing. She was so nonchalant about it, I almost expected her to say she didn't realize it was cheating. But instead it just seems like she didn't think the rules were a  big deal? Such a dumb way to lose 25K and get booted. 

That said, the show is more watchable/enjoyable without them.

Michael and Margarita....had just cause to complain about Claire and cheating, but then chose to complain about something else (copying) and made themselves look like idiots. Or more likely....the editing makes them look like idiots. I will try hard not to judge either, but still...they both came off like petulant sore losers.

I wish Amy had been able to break out and do something impressive. Her garment was not good. I did like the way she got to the bottom of measuring tape-gate. She asked good questions calmly and non-judgmentally till the truth came out.  Thank you for that, Amy!

[AZChristian]

5 hours ago, millennium said:

I half-expected Claire to be spared ("Sorry, I can't spare a Claire.   I haven't a Claire to spare.") by the Tim Gunn Save.   

I am not a Seinfeld fan in any way, shape, or form . . . but hubby was.  But even I had a flashback of Elaine in the bathroom with this sentence.  LOL.

[Nidratime]

I would love to know what the contestants initially complained about and if they ever brought up the tape measure and jotting down measurements at the hotel before this point.

I can see production being a little more "unconcerned" about complaints over copying when the judges themselves had not said anything and Tim even mentioned to Claire that she looked like she was reproducing a look "she" had done before, without saying anything about that being against the rules. What bothered me was the enormous help Claire was giving to Shawn and nothing was ever said to them by production -- that we could see. That seemed very unfair. But, I guess that was the point of pitting them against each other and showing dramatically that that was exactly what was happening and how it had to stop or Shawn should just start looking for a new career. (Frankly, they both should be doing so now.)

But once production knew about the tape measure and the hijinks at the hotel they *had* to boot Claire off. I'm sure Project Runway must abide by game show rules. If you have a competition where there is a level playing field and a winner is awarded prices, then you can't allow this type of blatant cheating.  The complaints about copying "could" be in the eye of the beholder, but one contestant constantly helping another from the get-go and then the "work" they were doing at the hotel *was* breaking the rules and the show would be in trouble if they allowed that to continue.

I don't know if the contestants shared rooms, but if Claire and Shawn shared a room and were measuring and writing info from their own clothes perhaps the other contestants didn't see that until Shawn left. Maybe Claire was put in a room with someone else who could, *then,* see what had been going on.... I don't know.

Moving on ... I still don't get Brandon's aesthetic. Almost everything he designs reminds me of what professional painters might wear to paint a house. Everything looks like a semi-tailored drop cloth.

[AZChristian]

One of the designers (Margarita?) said that Claire TOLD her she had a tape measure.  

And as far as the amount of collaboration the twins were doing.  It was like almost every challenge was a solo challenge of "x" number of single designers against one team.  They didn't just "help" each other - as many of the designers have done; they were a 100% TEAM - every time.

[Caseysgirl]

I recently ushered at a "Shopkins" show ( yes, these marketers are shameless!) and none of these outfits looked remotely like the clothes I saw on stage or the shit they were selling to unsuspecting parents for the kids to wear. It was all very bright neons, pinks, pale blue and purple.  Ayana's was the closest but as people have mentioned, a little hard to reproduce for a doll. Unfortunately, it's hard to believe that Amy had a daughter because there was nothing fantastical or girlish about her design. The colors, the design were very sedate and serious. 

The entire Claire episode appears to have been producer inspired for maximum drama. In fact, I think the whole twin scenario was probably inspired from the very beginning because I can't believe that BOTH of the beat out all the other designers who tried out for this show. They just weren't that good.

 

.

[Wings]

12 hours ago, Beaner said:

12 hours ago, bitchin camaro said:

I'm sorry, but I hate Brandon's. It's boring, not avant garde, and looks sloppy around the chest. 

He did not incorporate any of the ideas of his young partner. Wasn't that the whole challenge?

His young partner wanted an all chocolate dress with chocolate dripping down, chocolate everywhere!  All brown is not the direction to go if he wanted to stay in the competition!  When he voiced his dismay to Tim, he replied with, just design whatever you want, knowing the judges did not want a study in brown.  

[RedheadZombie]

What a way to start the show.  When the credits flashed HARVEY WEINSTEIN, I cringed.  They waited one day too late to revoke his credit.  Are they really so dim they didn't foresee that issue?

[PaulaO]

Why do designers equate avant garde with volume?  I give you Jillian and Victorya's Season 4 coat and jodhpurs.  Chris and Christian had the giant color and 40 yards of chiffon, but the volume wasn't overwhelming?  And wasn't there a designer who had no idea what avant garde was?

I felt sorry for Claire when the others were dissing her (last season's winner pretty much derived everything from Delpozo and Kenly blatantly ripped off her wedding dress from Ican'tremember.  I felt sorry for her until she admitted to cheating.  Then I had no pity for her. 

[CaughtOnTape]

13 hours ago, DasFlavorPup said:

Holy SHIT, Margarita.  You TOTALLY started this.  You aren't in the wrong, but OWN it, you whiny anus!

Michael, get the fuck over yourself.  Claire, as much as she can fuck off, was also right - this was completely because of the money.

Totally wasn't about the money.  I got the impression that this had all been bottling up for the season and it finally exploded on the runway.

The most annoying thing was the judges reactions.  It's not like Claire had been turning out uber original and creative designs.  Can the four of you entertain the idea that these contestants are seeing what's happening in the work room and hotel and have a view that's different from yours?  Heidi specifically always gets so haughty when people bring drama onto the runway like the person who brought it is to blame and not the person who was doing it to begin with.  Rather than asking Michael and Margarita why they felt the way they did, they instantly started in on them about how unfair they were being to Claire.  WTF?  Michael was not to blame for what he did and didn't need to own shit and either did Margarita.  They exposed a cheater.

Claire can miss me with her indignation over it.  She didn't own squat.  I suspect when we see the reunion episode she will defend herself and sit in her righteousness over the fact that what happened to her was unfair despite the fact she knowingly broke the rules.  She answered Tim's questions with annoyance and irritation like a huge deal was being made of nothing.  She and her stupid ponytail, pink lipstick, nose ringed ass can go home to Michigan and sew clothes for cats for all I care.

[Nidratime]

Quote

The entire Claire episode appears to have been producer inspired for maximum drama. In fact, I think the whole twin scenario was probably inspired from the very beginning because I can't believe that BOTH of the beat out all the other designers who tried out for this show. They just weren't that good.

Has Katy Perry ever been on this show? I wondered if they were hoping to have her as a special guest. Would she be allowed to judge if two of the contestants had worked for her?

Quote

What a way to start the show.  When the credits flashed HARVEY WEINSTEIN, I cringed.  They waited one day too late to revoke his credit.  Are they really so dim they didn't foresee that issue?

It occurred to me only today that when Claire said to the other contestants, "you should have just come to me and told me that it was wrong!" that that's exactly what abusers say to their victims.  Like, telling someone they shouldn't cheat makes it all better.

Edited October 13, 2017 by Nidratime

[LAFR]

I'm watching the episode now. Word for Michael and Margarita: you don't have to be ashamed for bringing this up. Claire cheated. She is under the same rules as everyone else and I'm sure she had the same opportunity to read them and acknowledge that she read them. This isn't a group of school friends with their "code of honor" about not tattling, this is an adult competition with valuable prizes at stake. There is no disloyalty involved. Claire broke the "code of honor" and the one who was disloyal, not Michael and Margarita. She had the arrogance to think she was above the rules and they didn't apply to her..

Probably many other posts with the same thoughts, but I wanted to say this first before I started reading posts.

This to me was the most annoying thing about the episode - the regret expressed by Margarita and Michael.
It was more annoying than Brandon's straps. Own it; take responsibility for your actions. Claire broke the rules.

With Amy's comments about the producers ignoring the rules (producers being Heidi and Harvey Weinstein's company) it makes sense that when 25k was on the line they would finally step up.

[Wings]

Michael did the right thing.   They told production repeatedly that Claire was cheating and they did nothing.  When she won, he had had it, so he took action.  Kudos.  

Edited October 13, 2017 by wings707

[lasandi]

Here's what I think.  If Claire had not won that challenge, the cheating would not have been brought up at that time.  Margarita was initially more upset that Claire won using her top design.  According to her she was so "distracted" she couldn't do her best work on her own outfit.  When Heidi made it clear that Claire won because of her print and how she used it, Margarita seemed ok with that.  Now Michael was about all of it....the copycatting, the tape measure, all of it.  It made "good tv", I guess, to out her on stage, but if Michael was so "overly passionate and wants everyone to play fair" why didn't he say something sooner....perhaps mention it to her.  I could almost swear Michael told Tim that Claire confided  in him about something related to what she was doing.  (I already deleted the ep so can't go back to tell u guys exactly what she confided).  In any case that would be the time to tell her, what she already knows, it is cheating and unfair to the rest of us.  I think Claire's winning the challenge and getting $25,000 pushed him over the edge.  It was his "oh hellll noo" moment.  I am laughing at the thought of him saying "oh hellll no" just like that.

In any case Claire deserved to go because she knew what she was doing was against the rules.

Edited October 13, 2017 by lasandi

[susannot]

Yes, mad props to Michael.  That really took guts, especially with him knowing that the judges were inclined to dismiss his criticisms and do nothing.

[Eulipian 5k]

11 hours ago, CherryMalotte said:

It just comes down to that she and her sister used PR for attention, and the producers either knew that and didn't care, or were just that oblivious.  

This. The whole twin drama seems like an insertion  to the show. Claire all but admitted it when she said "That's how my story ends". They are now part of the PR archive, they didn't take up any places in Fashion week, "and just like that... Poof!... they're gone", as Verbal Kent would say. Now they have to run off and get married so they can invade "The Real Housewives of Twinsville, AF"

[piedmontgirl]

Bottom line is Claire cheated. Michael and Margarita should not feel bad about doing the producer's job.

[rhys]

11 minutes ago, lasandi said:

  Margarita was initially more upset that Claire won using her top design.  

That never happened, tho.

[Miss Ruth]

1 hour ago, RedbirdNelly said:

If you see cheating, report it. You don't need to stage a walk off the runway.

If Amy told the truth about the cheating having been reported, but nothing was done, Michael might have felt that walking off the runway was his only option to get their attention.

 

42 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

One of the designers (Margarita?) said that Claire TOLD her she had a tape measure.  

I heard Michael say that.

Edited October 13, 2017 by Miss Ruth

[TwirlyGirly]

1 hour ago, susannot said:

OMG TwirlyGirly thanks for those avant-garde designs.  They are batshit insane, especially the last one.

The second one made me think of the Michelin Man:

 

2 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

But Miss Ruth, even though an apron has wide sides when open, the turned-up cuff design element was totally Brandon's vision.

TwirlyGirly, There is no "But," as you and I are saying the same thing about what "avant-garde" means, including that "Ayana's look best satisfied the "avant-garde" aspect of the challenge,..."

I didn't say, or quote this: "But Miss Ruth, even though an apron has wide sides when open, the turned-up cuff design element was totally Brandon's vision."

So IDK where that came from!