Paul & Karine: These Condoms Ain't For Sexin'

[Mrs. Hanson]

20 minutes ago, RealReality said:

But I am unfamiliar with both divorcy/custody laws and Brazilian law. 

There was a famous case from years back where a Brazilian woman refused to share custody with her her US husband, left him to live in Brazil.  Divorced him in Brazil, then remarried and died in childbirth.  Judge gave custody of son to the stepfather.  Took years for Bio American Dad to get full custody.  So.....yeah I think Karine is safe.

[CrazyInAlabama]

The Brazilian custody case never would have succeeded if the ex-wife wouldn't have died.    I bet if anything the U.S. father would have been able to go to Brazil to visit the kid, and that would be it.    I'm sure the lawyers in two countries, and all of the costs involved were massive.

   Pole doesn't have the resources, and if any of Karine's relatives have any influence (like her Dad the ex-cop) then Pole won't get a chance to visit Brazil. so no custody fight.   I bet Pole's background would figure into the mix also.  

Edited October 10, 2019 by CrazyInAlabama

[gingerella]

10 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

The Brazilian custody case never would have succeeded if the ex-wife wouldn't have died.    I bet if anything the U.S. father would have been able to go to Brazil to visit the kid, and that would be it.    I'm sure the lawyers in two countries, and all of the costs involved were massive.

   Pole doesn't have the resources, and if any of Karine's relatives have any influence (like her Dad the ex-cop) then Pole won't get a chance to visit Brazil. so no custody fight.   I bet Pole's background would figure into the mix also.  

This is what always makes me nuts about these two idjits. I'm quite sure that Kreeenie's father could either have Pole 'disappeared' OR deported immediamente and awarded persona non grata status in Brazil upon his departure. That would ensure that he could never come back and harass Kreenie. It just needs to be done once and for all, but I doubt it will because Kreenie's just as dumb as Pole is, only slightly less...

[doyouevengohere]

I wanted to like Karine and she's looked lovely and more like pre-Pol Karine the last few episodes, but she continues to stay with him.  Her mom gave her a way out (leave him and we will help you take care of this baby) and she still stays with him.  He brings nothing to the marriage except stuffed animals.  He should be happy knowing that he's such a loser in every way , accuses his wife of constantly whoring around and STILL Karine stays with him.  If she had a cuter more stable employed sex god in the wings and is staying with Pol for stuffed animals she is an absolute idiot and deserves what she gets with him.

[RealReality]

6 minutes ago, doyouevengohere said:

I wanted to like Karine and she's looked lovely and more like pre-Pol Karine the last few episodes, but she continues to stay with him.  Her mom gave her a way out (leave him and we will help you take care of this baby) and she still stays with him.  He brings nothing to the marriage except stuffed animals.  He should be happy knowing that he's such a loser in every way , accuses his wife of constantly whoring around and STILL Karine stays with him.  If she had a cuter more stable employed sex god in the wings and is staying with Pol for stuffed animals she is an absolute idiot and deserves what she gets with him.

She may just have a stable of old, weird dudes who pay to look at her old videos and chat with her. 

Clearly this is a career option (see Maria).  

It kinda reminds me of Abby from Haiti and that doctor who looked like Gary shandling.  He wanted a "relationship" with her, but he had no intention of settling down with her.  He just wanted someone to have "fun" with when he was in the area.  

Karine may have guys who want.....encounters, but they don't want the reality of a relationship her and a kid.

She really ought to move back home with her mom and let Paul do whatever menial work he can do in the US and send her money.  

Paul is frustrated that he can't find a job and now his mom is going to turn off the financial faucet.  To add to that, he and karine don't get along and now there is a baby.  

It's a matter of time before Paul burns something down or acts out in a dangerous way because he feels pushed to the brink.  

[CrazyInAlabama]

I think the mother claiming to turn off the money source was just a story line.     I don't think someone who gives her loser son boxes of hair to tote around will him will ever cut the apron strings. 

[doyouevengohere]

Pol's mom talks a good talk, but she obviously sponsored Karine and the baby cause Pol has no money and they are both here in the US now.  I don't think his $10K to $15 K from TLC would help in bringing them over or work as a sponsorship.  Pol's mom should have kicked him out and cut him off a LONG time ago.

[RealReality]

37 minutes ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

I think the mother claiming to turn off the money source was just a story line.     I don't think someone who gives her loser son boxes of hair to tote around will him will ever cut the apron strings. 

LOL, fair point. 😂

Her threats may be more motivational than actual.

[eyebleach]

On 9/5/2019 at 2:48 AM, mamadrama said:

I mean, I was just joking but if we were really playing with Bacon as the constant then I have 2: he and his brother were in a band and they played at the bar my family used to own. Unlike some of the acts who came through, he was always funny and friendly and he'd sit around and chat with us even after we closed for the night. I was also an extra in TAKING CHANCE.

The Bacon Brothers!  Michael wrote a song for my pre-school where I went with their niece.  "Uncle" Kevin actually gave me a piggy back ride when I was 3.  It's one of my greatest claims to fame!

[Lily247]

Is it just me, or did these people have a baby to stay relevant and continue on this show ?

Karine - 21 or 22 years old, had no need to have a baby. And we know it was definitely planned. What she COULD have done was use her youth and position on a reality show to somehow improve her financial situation, go to college in Manaus with the show money or start a small business or something. 

Edited October 12, 2019 by Lily247

[iwasish]

On 10/9/2019 at 10:54 AM, RealReality said:

100% agree.  

I don't understand why she ever had a child by Paul, but I suspect that in the beginning she was sold a bill of goods.  

But I cannot imagine having to rely on Paul for anything.  He routinely wants to jump into a river of shit or into a dog house when things get stressful.  How can she leave him with the baby on a regular basis to work?  

He can't get a job, he doesn't appear to have any skills, he doesn't speak the language and he is weird.  He couldnt shovel shit in the US where he speaks the language.  So she can't trust him to work and provide for the household. 

I truly, truly think that the best thing for her would be to move back home and let Paul go to the US and earn money he can send back for her and the baby.*  I have no idea why she keeps rejecting that idea. 

If he was stateside she wouldn't have him around and there would be fewer opportunities to fight.  Karine could have the help of her mother and other family/villagers to help with Pierre.  She could afford a lot more with whatever pittance Paul can earn in the US.  

And she wouldn't have to deal with Paul constantly invading her space and threatening divorce (which he knows is wrong because once she gets mad he automatically apologizes).

*- I don't know that I believe Paul could hold a job in the us but I think he would have far more opportunities for temporary, short term work even if he ends up being let go from a few jobs. 

As bad as Pol is, at least he’s bringing in some money, even if it’s only handouts from his mom. Karine’s scared he will go back  to the US and never return or send money. For her it’s money, it’s the only thing keeping her with him.

[Kiss my mutt]

You know Pol will use the baby as leverage to kept extorting money from his mom who obviously has had to work hard in her life. I can’t imagine that Karine can’t do any better than him. 

[CrazyInAlabama]

If half of what we've been told about Pole's background is true, then he's never going to be employed for long.     Karine went with the wrong choice for a stable relationship.     I just feel sorry for the kid.  

[kacesq]

Can someone share the spoiler here about why Karine wasn’t at the Tell All? It was alluded to in Live Chat but I can’t find it posted anywhere.

[jennylauren123]

1 hour ago, kacesq said:

Can someone share the spoiler here about why Karine wasn’t at the Tell All? It was alluded to in Live Chat but I can’t find it posted anywhere.

I am here looking for the scoop, too. Maybe I'll see if I can find something online.

[Twopper]

6 minutes ago, jennylauren123 said:

I am here looking for the scoop, too. Maybe I'll see if I can find something online.

Please report back if you can figure it out.  Thanks in advance as I obviously have no life.

[AZChristian]

One thing I found was Paul saying that Karine wanted a divorce (and had a divorce lawyer contact Paul).  The grounds?  Paul's mother was spoiling Pierry and buying him stuff every day.

[Persnickety1]

The only thing I could find (and I don't care enough about these two to invest much time into researching their nonstop divorce shenanigans) is this article and really brief snippet:  

https://www.eonline.com/news/1082917/90-day-fiance-the-other-way-tell-all-had-feuding-couples-missing-spouses-and-divorce-talk

Paul and Karine
Karine didn't attend the taping or video call in, but Paul said he's a changed man now.

Probably dramatic shenanigans to try to get a spot on next season.  Their "journey" has clearly reached its conclusion for viewers, so I'm sure all of these assclowns are trying to generate enough buzz to be asked back.  

[silverspoons]

2 hours ago, Persnickety1 said:

The only thing I could find (and I don't care enough about these two to invest much time into researching their nonstop divorce shenanigans) is this article and really brief snippet:  

https://www.eonline.com/news/1082917/90-day-fiance-the-other-way-tell-all-had-feuding-couples-missing-spouses-and-divorce-talk

Paul and Karine
Karine didn't attend the taping or video call in, but Paul said he's a changed man now.

Probably dramatic shenanigans to try to get a spot on next season.  Their "journey" has clearly reached its conclusion for viewers, so I'm sure all of these assclowns are trying to generate enough buzz to be asked back.  

Instead of us seeing Paul do his famous run again this season and have repeat drama of do you want a divorce every week, I would have liked to see her come to America.  Can you imagine Paul showing her around ? and trying to teach her what he thinks the norms are? I would have liked to see her honest non-edit reactions to life in the US. For all those Mickey Mouse clothes she wears TLC could have given them a weekend second honeymoon at Disney world. 

[Snewtsie]

6 hours ago, Twopper said:

Please report back if you can figure it out.  Thanks in advance as I obviously have no life.

This, I think... https://www.realitytea.com/2019/09/10/90-day-fiance-fans-report-paul-and-karine-staehle-to-child-protective-services/

[Azubah]

The only recent rumor I've heard is that Karine has severe postpartum depression and is only semi-functional. No clue as to the accuracy of the rumor.

[Kiss my mutt]

I won’t believe Paul is a changed man unless he can show me 5 years of pay Stubs, so basically never gonna happen. 

[Hannah94]

16 hours ago, kacesq said:

Can someone share the spoiler here about why Karine wasn’t at the Tell All? It was alluded to in Live Chat but I can’t find it posted anywhere.

A few months ago, it was posted that they were seen at a restaurant with the baby in America. I feel like it was in Kentucky, but I cannot remember for sure. So I am thinking they are going to bring her onstage for the second part. 

[Teri313]

13 hours ago, Azubah said:

The only recent rumor I've heard is that Karine has severe postpartum depression and is only semi-functional. No clue as to the accuracy of the rumor.

According to the article posted above, they moved to Kentucky, they posted a few videos online that showed their house looking like a dump, and their "fans" became worried for the baby and called CPS. The police did a wellness check, but were not concerned. And to confirm what you've said:

"Allegedly, Karine was barred from filming when they arrived because she was not well.  Apparently, Karine spoke to a therapist on location regarding post-partum depression symptoms."

[Persnickety1]

2 hours ago, Teri313 said:

According to the article posted above, they moved to Kentucky, they posted a few videos online that showed their house looking like a dump, and their "fans" became worried for the baby and called CPS. The police did a wellness check, but were not concerned. And to confirm what you've said:

"Allegedly, Karine was barred from filming when they arrived because she was not well.  Apparently, Karine spoke to a therapist on location regarding post-partum depression symptoms."

I've seen reports of that therapist being on set for Corey with the Evelin/Raul revelation and then for Jenny with the SumBitch debacle.  This is the first time I've seen it attributed to Karine. 

Maybe TLC always have a therapist on hand to cover their asses screen participants just in case one of these idiots tries to clobber another one.  "But we had a mental health professional backstage screening them to make sure they were competent!"   

I'm curious to see how this plays out, because I can't picture soulless TLC barring anyone from filming if it would boost ratings, regardless of any physical or mental issues.  I think they relish having someone break down on stage (which begs the question why they don't hire a different host who could actually accomplish this).  

Poor Karine.  Bad enough having to deal with Paul.  I can't imagine struggling with postpartum depression on top of that.   

[Polliwollidoodle]

I don't follow too closely either, but I definitely recall  what Hannah 94 posted- there were pix or video or something of the happy 3some in Murica. I don't remember any more or when it was so I don't know if she and Peary are still here? 

Look at that, they got us sucked in and will be watching next week.

[Teri313]

1 hour ago, Persnickety1 said:

I've seen reports of that therapist being on set for Corey with the Evelin/Raul revelation and then for Jenny with the SumBitch debacle.  This is the first time I've seen it attributed to Karine. 

Maybe TLC always have a therapist on hand to cover their asses screen participants just in case one of these idiots tries to clobber another one.  "But we had a mental health professional backstage screening them to make sure they were competent!"   

I'm curious to see how this plays out, because I can't picture soulless TLC barring anyone from filming if it would boost ratings, regardless of any physical or mental issues.  I think they relish having someone break down on stage (which begs the question why they don't hire a different host who could actually accomplish this).  

Poor Karine.  Bad enough having to deal with Paul.  I can't imagine struggling with postpartum depression on top of that.   

I know, it must have been bad for them to spare her.

One thing I will say about Paul is that he seemed genuinely compassionate toward Corey.

[Persnickety1]

7 minutes ago, Teri313 said:

I know, it must have been bad for them to spare her.

One thing I will say about Paul is that he seemed genuinely compassionate toward Corey.

Yes, when your situation is so dismal that even Paul is looking at you with pity, you're in deep shit.  Too bad Corey is too obtuse to figure it out.  

[Gobi]

2 hours ago, Persnickety1 said:

Poor Karine.  Bad enough having to deal with Paul.  I can't imagine struggling with postpartum depression on top of that.   

She’s lucky. Being married to Pole could have easily led to postmortem depression

[Kiss my mutt]

Guess mama Pol came through financially after all. What do they do they have money to support a grown man.  She’s going to be in the poor house when she’s an old woman the way this is going.  

I have to wonder how old she is. Probably not as old as she looks meaning she didn’t exactly have a cushy life.  

[Polliwollidoodle]

32 minutes ago, Kiss my mutt said:

Guess mama Pol came through financially after all. What do they do they have money to support a grown man.  She’s going to be in the poor house when she’s an old woman the way this is going.  

I have to wonder how old she is. Probably not as old as she looks meaning she didn’t exactly have a cushy life.  

Yes, I am going to try to see if I can find out but my guess is that Mother Pole is likely late 50's. Possibly early 60's? I see that it is very hard to judge. I am actually mid 60's and look pretty good for my age, but I do look my age. I almost fell over when I read that Coltee's mama deb was about the same age as I am.........but damn she seems old. Same thing with Mother Pole.

OK so I googled and she was born MARCH 1954 so she is 65. I was obviously wrong. Well she still looks like an old 65 year old. 

Edited October 16, 2019 by mayvenne
because I was wrong

[silverspoons]

4 hours ago, Persnickety1 said:

I've seen reports of that therapist being on set for Corey with the Evelin/Raul revelation and then for Jenny with the SumBitch debacle.  This is the first time I've seen it attributed to Karine. 

Maybe TLC always have a therapist on hand to cover their asses screen participants just in case one of these idiots tries to clobber another one.  "But we had a mental health professional backstage screening them to make sure they were competent!"   

I'm curious to see how this plays out, because I can't picture soulless TLC barring anyone from filming if it would boost ratings, regardless of any physical or mental issues.  I think they relish having someone break down on stage (which begs the question why they don't hire a different host who could actually accomplish this).  

Poor Karine.  Bad enough having to deal with Paul.  I can't imagine struggling with postpartum depression on top of that.   

I wonder where are the leaks come from. I heard that the therapist was there for Laura! There is a you tuber that went to Evelyn's tiki bar recently (Laura was already there) and was told that the therapist was there for Laura because they knew she was in a fragile state. 

I think they should always have a therapist for all of them, Being on this show, the hours of filming and then the 8 minute edit they get every week has to even for the happiest couple stressful plus I have yet to see a couple 100% loved on social media so all couples should  have a therapist to talk to if social media gets overwhelming. 

[Teri313]

9 minutes ago, mayvenne said:

OK so I googled and she was born MARCH 1954 so she is 65.

Damn - shame on Paul for living off of parents that age who obviously aren't well off. Really, screw him. When she was talking to him about not being able to support  him anymore, he didn't even seem appreciative of what she's done for him or embarrassed that he let her. I try sometimes to see his side, but this takes the cake, hearing how old she actually is. He needs to get a life coach or something and get his shit together. And start paying his parents back, too.

[silverspoons]

45 minutes ago, Teri313 said:

Damn - shame on Paul for living off of parents that age who obviously aren't well off. Really, screw him. When she was talking to him about not being able to support  him anymore, he didn't even seem appreciative of what she's done for him or embarrassed that he let her. I try sometimes to see his side, but this takes the cake, hearing how old she actually is. He needs to get a life coach or something and get his shit together. And start paying his parents back, too.

I think Paul's best bet is for Karine to get an education and a career. I can;t think of any sort of trade, skill program or college degree Paul could obtain that could get him into a job he would be able to keep. Right now, he or they have a chance, they have some money from TLC and cameos and KY does not have a high cost of living. It is their chance while the baby is young to get some training or college to be able to have a solid income in a few years and be settle before they need to think about school districts and homes. I just can't see Paul doing any trade, which usually are shorter programs before some income comes in. If he can;t shovel horse poop, I can't see him as a mechanic or plumber. I also can;t see him learning a machine factory type skill or anything healthcare.  I think their only hope for a stable income is maybe Karine starting as like a CNA and see if she can find some healthcare career she can get into. 

I think Paul is one that does not realize TLC money won;t be there forever or his mom's wallet. Does Paul have siblings? I wonder if he thinks he will get his family house after his parents pass and this is his "plan" of stability. 

[Kiss my mutt]

1 hour ago, mayvenne said:

Yes, I am going to try to see if I can find out but my guess is that Mother Pole is likely late 50's. Possibly early 60's? I see that it is very hard to judge. I am actually mid 60's and look pretty good for my age, but I do look my age. I almost fell over when I read that Coltee's mama deb was about the same age as I am.........but damn she seems old. Same thing with Mother Pole.

OK so I googled and she was born MARCH 1954 so she is 65. I was obviously wrong. Well she still looks like an old 65 year old. 

1 hour ago, Teri313 said:

Damn - shame on Paul for living off of parents that age who obviously aren't well off. Really, screw him. When she was talking to him about not being able to support  him anymore, he didn't even seem appreciative of what she's done for him or embarrassed that he let her. I try sometimes to see his side, but this takes the cake, hearing how old she actually is. He needs to get a life coach or something and get his shit together. And start paying his parents back, too.

Thanks for looking all that up, @mayvenne  She definitely looks all of her 65 years. Her age makes me even more indignant about her supporting Pol. Wtf? We’re supposed to start caring for our parents by this age. I agree, he’s probably biding his time so he can inherit from his parent’s hard work. Of course if they need long term care that money could be gone in a heartbeat. He’d squander Whatever inheritance he got anyway. Better they set up a trust for Pierre and give Pol a final FU! 

Karine could go to cosmetology school and once she’s in a better place, head for the hills  

[mamadrama]

Up until around 3 weeks ago, at least, Karine has been here in the US. She's been seeking treatment for PPD. This was talked about on here about 3 pages back. I can confirm physically seeing her in the hospital. Lots of the gossip sites have been reporting it for a while. No idea if she will appear on the tell all, since I don't know when it was filmed, but this is an ongoing problem. The rumor is that she was on the tell all but had a break down and they had to bring the doctor in.

[blubld43]

14 hours ago, mamadrama said:

Up until around 3 weeks ago, at least, Karine has been here in the US. She's been seeking treatment for PPD. This was talked about on here about 3 pages back. I can confirm physically seeing her in the hospital. Lots of the gossip sites have been reporting it for a while. No idea if she will appear on the tell all, since I don't know when it was filmed, but this is an ongoing problem. The rumor is that she was on the tell all but had a break down and they had to bring the doctor in.

Lord have mercy, I hope she's okay.

I'm very likely in a minority here, but Pol's behavior during Pierre's birth changed my view of him. He seemed to do everything right.  Then on the tell all he obviously had compassion for Corey. At least he admits his failings; to me that's more likable than someone like Tiffany, who feels she's a perfect mom and gets angry when anyone questions her.

[RealReality]

2 hours ago, blubld43 said:

Lord have mercy, I hope she's okay.

I'm very likely in a minority here, but Pol's behavior during Pierre's birth changed my view of him. He seemed to do everything right.  Then on the tell all he obviously had compassion for Corey. At least he admits his failings; to me that's more likable than someone like Tiffany, who feels she's a perfect mom and gets angry when anyone questions her.

I see where you're coming from and agree with the idea that Paul wasn't bad at the birth and had real compassion with Corey.

But I think people are a mix.  For all those positive traits Paul is still the guy who is constantly invading personal space, awkwardly running into dog houses, asking for a divorce, apologizing only after he has gone too far, feels entitled to his mom's financial support for his ENTIRE family and helped create a baby without a job and without having a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of.

It's ridiculous that either of them thought they should make a baby, but it's even worse for Paul because he is near 40. He knows he can't afford a child and he knows he doesn't do well with stress.  Karine should have also not been so desperate that she purposefully made a child with Paul.  She knew who he was when she got pregnant a second time. 

Edited October 17, 2019 by RealReality

[gingerella]

To those who say Karine should get an education and get into cosmetology or whatever, then make her own money and split when she's financially able to. Have you been watching this psychopath, Pole? He'll never let her 'get away' from him as long as she's in the US. He'll threaten her, he probably will try to fuck with her paperwork so she can't work, because, yanno, she might talk to other men while she's working a job and he couldn't allow that to happen because he's a fucking nutjob. No, I think the only safe/sane thing for Karine to do is to take the baby and go home and let her family help her raise that kid. Shut down all her social media, toss her phone card and get a new one, and never contact Pole ever again. Oh, and have her father help get Pole barred from entry to Brazil. That is the only way she'll ever be free from this moron. But the fact that she continues to go back with him despite the disgust you can see in her face this season, says a lot about how vapid and useless she is as well. Which is weird because her parents seem pretty normal people. I wonder how much of her idiocy is from her obsession/addiction to social media and thinking she wont ever have to work a day in her life if she just milks the social media system a little bit more...?

[magemaud]

9 hours ago, RealReality said:

She knew who he was when she got pregnant a second time. 

I believe it was her THIRD "prenancy" with Pole. 

[mamadrama]

At this point I can't muster any ill feelings about Karine. I don't think she was THAT emotionally mature when she got together with Pole, much less now when her body and might not be well. I can trash talk the others all day, but with her I just feel sympathetic and lucky that I've never been in a situation in which I thought a juvenile acting, manipulative arsonist was the best that I could do.

[Vivigirl10]

Quote

No, I think the only safe/sane thing for Karine to do is to take the baby and go home and let her family help her raise that kid.

I agree and can't understand why she doesn't.  She and her Mom seemed to have a very loving relationship.  I don't see how she's any better off financially, strapped to Pole.  

Also, I can think of a handful of things that Pole could do:  work at a gas station, stock shelves at Target, bag groceries, mow lawns, heck - work behind the scene at McDonalds!  He wouldn't have to pursue any education and his contact with others and "stress" would be minimal.  No, none of these jobs will bring him any glory, but it will bring him a paycheck.  Support your family, weirdo.  

But then I get discouraged and look at the Duggar's and think....maybe the TLC gravy train never does end, no matter how much we wish it would.....

[mamadrama]

Hell, I worked in a Violence Against Women's Studies office and used to travel around and give workshops for high school kids when I found myself in an abusive, controlling relationship-and I was literally teaching people about what signs to look for. I had a great job, made quite a bit of money, and had a good support system and it still took me 3 years to find my way out.

Years later when I was a family therapist I volunteered at a domestic violence shelter. One thing I learned very quickly is that DV isn't prejudice. College educated women, women with good jobs, women with great family support, women with disposable income, women who should "know better"... We saw all kinds of women come through our doors. And DV isn't always like the way TV portrays it-physical abuse and shouting and life endangerment. Sometimes it's far more subtle and that, in it's own way, can be worse. You can be years into the relationship before waking up one day and realizing that you no longer have a support system and have been systematically isolated from everyone and everything.

Why doesn't she just leave is probably the most asked question in these situations. But never underestimate the power of embarassment, fear of being alone, fear of the unknown, and simply being comfortable. And that's before you even get to the mindfuck a lot of these people pull on their partners.

[CrazyInAlabama]

I think the worst thing for Karine to do is come to the U.S. where Pole can control, and isolate her.   She has no support here, except control freak Pole, and his mother, who I bet enabled him his whole life, and will never stop doing that. 

[Adeejay]

I just saw a picture of Karine and Pierree in Louisville.  She looks great.  She seems to have lost most of her pregnancy weight.  Little Pierree is a butterball.  He is the spitting image of his father; poor thing. 

[Mothra]

14 hours ago, mamadrama said:

Why doesn't she just leave is probably the most asked question in these situations. But never underestimate the power of embarassment, fear of being alone, fear of the unknown, and simply being comfortable. And that's before you even get to the mindfuck a lot of these people pull on their partners.

There is so much judgment in that "just" that it makes my blood boil.

I want to ban the word "just"--including as in prayers (Jesus, we just want to thank you...)--except when it refers to justice, as in "a just sentence for arson is being confined to a dog house..."

[blubld43]

15 minutes ago, Mothra said:

There is so much judgment in that "just" that it makes my blood boil.

I want to ban the word "just"--including as in prayers (Jesus, we just want to thank you...)--except when it refers to justice, as in "a just sentence for arson is being confined to a dog house..."

Thank you @mamadrama and @Mothra!  Your comments are right on the money.

I lived through seven years of violent domestic abuse. The reasons women stay in these situations are so complex and varied; in my case I was raising his two sons from his first marriage.

I hope Karine gets help with whatever is going on. I can't imagine being in that situation in a foreign country, with nobody to turn to for help and consolation.

[Persnickety1]

23 hours ago, Kiki620 said:

I agree and can't understand why she doesn't.  She and her Mom seemed to have a very loving relationship.  I don't see how she's any better off financially, strapped to Pole.  

Also, I can think of a handful of things that Pole could do:  work at a gas station, stock shelves at Target, bag groceries, mow lawns, heck - work behind the scene at McDonalds!  He wouldn't have to pursue any education and his contact with others and "stress" would be minimal.  No, none of these jobs will bring him any glory, but it will bring him a paycheck.  Support your family, weirdo.  

But then I get discouraged and look at the Duggar's and think....maybe the TLC gravy train never does end, no matter how much we wish it would.....

Pole + flammables = NO BUENO.  😲

[Mothra]

4 hours ago, blubld43 said:

I lived through seven years of violent domestic abuse. The reasons women stay in these situations are so complex and varied;

Dear Blubld, there is no reason to try to explain your or any other woman's reasons for staying in an abusive relationship.  If we as a society haven't learned by now that such situations are not subject to normal "logic," then we haven't learned much at all. 

After Anita Hill testified, and so many women spoke up about receiving the same kind of sexual humiliation at work, you'd think we, and especially the men in power, would begin to suspect that in situations where the power is so unequal and whether the mistreatment is embarrassment or abuse to the point of death, the dynamic is unique and no "just leave" makes any sense at all.

I was the victim of sexual abuse at work, and I finally did "just leave."  That meant giving up the best job I'd ever had in my life, cutting off any chance of advancing in that area, leaving friends and colleagues, and allowing a monster to continue his depredations without any consequence at all.  I was too embarrassed to ask for a reference when I was looking for a new job.  This was back in the '70s, when I knew no one would believe me, or if they did, think it was a big deal.  I told one of my work friends and learned she was also a victim.  She was a single mother and didn't have the luxury of walking away.  She consoled herself with "well, at least he's a good kisser."

I cannot imagine how many degrees more impossible it would be to "just leave" an abusive relationship where a person might fear for her life, where she is alone with her abuser, and I don't mean to compare my situation with anyone else's, but the fact is that in addition to the actual abuse women suffer, the insult of being asked why they didn't "just leave" does nothing but add further humiliation to what already might be life-threatening pain.

[mamadrama]

1 hour ago, Mothra said:

Dear Blubld, there is no reason to try to explain your or any other woman's reasons for staying in an abusive relationship.  If we as a society haven't learned by now that such situations are not subject to normal "logic," then we haven't learned much at all. 

After Anita Hill testified, and so many women spoke up about receiving the same kind of sexual humiliation at work, you'd think we, and especially the men in power, would begin to suspect that in situations where the power is so unequal and whether the mistreatment is embarrassment or abuse to the point of death, the dynamic is unique and no "just leave" makes any sense at all.

I was the victim of sexual abuse at work, and I finally did "just leave."  That meant giving up the best job I'd ever had in my life, cutting off any chance of advancing in that area, leaving friends and colleagues, and allowing a monster to continue his depredations without any consequence at all.  I was too embarrassed to ask for a reference when I was looking for a new job.  This was back in the '70s, when I knew no one would believe me, or if they did, think it was a big deal.  I told one of my work friends and learned she was also a victim.  She was a single mother and didn't have the luxury of walking away.  She consoled herself with "well, at least he's a good kisser."

I cannot imagine how many degrees more impossible it would be to "just leave" an abusive relationship where a person might fear for her life, where she is alone with her abuser, and I don't mean to compare my situation with anyone else's, but the fact is that in addition to the actual abuse women suffer, the insult of being asked why they didn't "just leave" does nothing but add further humiliation to what already might be life-threatening pain.

I think we still have a long way to go as far as society goes with understanding abuse and it's sad, especially when it comes to emotional or psychological abuse that isn't as overt. My daughter is 8 and I have to have the same conversations with her that my mom had with me.

My hope is that 80% of what we have seen with Pole has been a mixture of editing shenanigans, some kind of weird character he has created, and stuff taken out of context. But considering his record...