S01.E08: Young England

[Tara Ariano]

Quote

In the Season 1 finale, a very pregnant Victoria attracts both devoted and demented admirers when she ventures into public; and Miss Skerrett and Francatelli reach a decisive moment.

[Meredith Quill]

Please ensure you have read and understand the forum spoiler policy before posting in here.

Thanks.

[Primetimer]

Maybe Albert's just being nice.

View the full article

[chitowngirl]

If I would have known that the after Party was little more than a pledge drive, I would gave turned on Who Do You Think You Are.

[LittleIggy]

I muted the "After Party" until Rufus came on, watched his gorgeous self, then switched it off.

[gingerella]

That after party was a bit presumtuous. I mean, Downton Abby this show ain't.  I'd consider pledging if they used my money to hire someone to create a few more CGI views of fake London though, because the one view they keep using over and over and over and over is just very fake looking. 

[voiceover]

Oh, my dear Ernest! only a lock of hair??  Albert appears to be the only man on this series who's gettin' some.  I guess 20 years ago, I would've swooned at the Romance of it All.

Tonight I just threw something at the TV.

Rather unsatisfying for a season finale.  I did like the sweet moment between Victoria & her uncle, over Charlotte & the marrons glaces.  Other than that, eh.

[janeta]

6 hours ago, voiceover said:

Rather unsatisfying for a season finale.  I did like the sweet moment between Victoria & her uncle, over Charlotte & the marrons glaces.  Other than that, eh.

-looks up marrons glaces-   mmmmmmmmmmmm!  yum!

Edited March 6, 2017 by janeta

[howiveaddict]

3 hours ago, pbutler111 said:

I think that was only true when the monarchy had to be carried on by a male. By the way, as I read this recap I just happen to be watching Doctor Who, "Asylum of the Daleks", which introduced us to Jenna Coleman, as Oswin, the girl who doesn't know she's a Dalek. She's come a long way!

If Victoria makes a souffle, we will know their worlds are connected. 

[iMonrey]

So that happened. All in all I enjoyed the season. It paled in comparison to the quality of The Crown or the addictiveness of Downton Abbey, but it was still fun. I think we all agree the servant characters never really got off the ground and the show failed to make us care about them to any great extent. I gather we were supposed to feel something for Skerritt crying over the loss of Francatelli but I was unsure if it meant she regretted not going with him or if she was just sorry to see him go.

I know shows like this must take certain artistic liberties with historical fact but I highly question the suspicion they placed on Victoria's uncle for planning to assassinate her. I find it hard to believe anyone would be so bold as to openly accuse him that way. The other problem is they never properly fleshed out the character so we had no sense of whether or not he was capable of something like that. 

I will happily watch another season of this but I would hope the writer takes a hard look at what worked and what didn't before moves forward. She's probably not inclined to throw in the towel and admit defeat over the servant characters so she needs to fix them. There really aren't that many to deal with - Penge, Skerrett, Brodie, Mrs. Jenkins and Lohlein - that's about it. They need to be fleshed out more and given more to do. We also need to know more about these ladies like the Duchess of Sutherland if they're going to be hanging about. 

[Brattinella]

Were those men who were watching the Queen give birth members of Parliament?  What an odd custom!  I'm glad she slammed the door on THAT!

[HelenBaby]

7 minutes ago, Brattinella said:

Were those men who were watching the Queen give birth members of Parliament?  What an odd custom!  I'm glad she slammed the door on THAT!

I don't think that was so unusual back then with monarchs. Had to make sure they weren't faking it.

[doodlebug]

12 minutes ago, HelenBaby said:

I don't think that was so unusual back then with monarchs. Had to make sure they weren't faking it.

It happened all the time.  At Versailles in France, there is an actual railing at the foot of the bed which is on a platform.  The various nobles stood at the foot of the bed to verify that the actual Queen gave birth to the actual baby and that it was not a "changeling"; a peasant's baby brought in because the pregnancy was fake or the real baby was stillborn or deformed.

[Constantinople]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I gather we were supposed to feel something for Skerritt crying over the loss of Francatelli but I was unsure if it meant she regretted not going with him or if she was just sorry to see him go.

I cried tears of frustration that they weren't both out the door.

[LittleIggy]

7 hours ago, Ripley68 said:

I'm not sure Victoria ever gazed lovingly at her new born babies. 

She thought newborn babies were ugly. 

[humbleopinion]

Will Daisy Goodwin pen Penge and Lehzen as the new Mr. Carson and Mrs. Hughes in Season 2?

[kassygreene]

Witnessing all aspects of Royal reproduction used to be commonplace; especially since marriages were international treaties.

As to the Brits, part of the reason James II was deposed was because it was suspected that his wife had given birth to a dead baby or was not pregnant at all.  The birth was unwitnessed, and a large closed warming pan was carried in before a baby's cries were heard.

The other part of the reason James II was deposed is that he was Catholic, which was acceptable while he practiced privately and his heirs were his adult Protestant daughters, but the prospect of him raising a Catholic son was unacceptable.

[StaceyNotStacie]

My guess is that we have to see her juggle new motherhood and the crown, and possibly another pregnancy or two during the next season depending on how much of a time jump they do. 

I wonder if we've seen the last of the chef. It wouldn't surprise me to see him back in the future. Otherwise, I expect to see Ms. Skerritt with one of the younger guys. 

[magdalene]

Personally I find Ernest much more attractive than Albert. Though his romance with the married woman is too eye roll inducing to my cynical self.  A lock of her hair - really?

[Calamity Jane]

I wish I could like this show more than I do.  It's right in my wheelhouse, it's lovely to look at (sort of), it's a British history series, but it just leaves me cold.  Don't think I'll be back for characters I just haven't been able to care about.  I'll wait for The Crown, Call the Midwife, Wolf Hall, even Game of Thrones.  It's not clear to me why these characters all seem so flat, but they all leave me cold, and it's hugely disappointing for someone who usually eats this stuff up.  

Edited March 7, 2017 by Calamity Jane

[jschoolgirl]

1 hour ago, humbleopinion said:

Will Daisy Goodwin pen Penge and Lehzen as the new Mr. Carson and Mrs. Hughes in Season 2?

I sure hope not!

[humbleopinion]

Penge is looking sharper in his powdered wig and Lehzen smiled at him when he delivered the Queen's correspondence directly to her and not Prince Albert as ordered.

Stirrings of desire...

Pardon me as I barf my marrons glaces...

[movingtargetgal]

4 hours ago, Brattinella said:

Were those men who were watching the Queen give birth members of Parliament?  What an odd custom!  I'm glad she slammed the door on THAT!

When I saw that scene I could not help but wonder how Call the Midwife's Sister Evangelina would handle all of these noblemen and politicians upsetting the mother and child she was caring for.  She totally would have kicked assed and taken names. :)  

[kassygreene]

The Duke of Sussex was the uncle; the Duke of Sutherland was Harriet's husband, and I don't think was an onscreen character.  I think the Duchess of Kent was talking to Lord Alfred Paget, who in the show is possibly Lord Chamberlain, and in Real History was still five years away from entering the Queen's service as Chief Equerry... Wiki is my friend.

[elle]

9 minutes ago, kassygreene said:

The Duke of Sussex was the uncle; the Duke of Sutherland was Harriet's husband, and I don't think was an onscreen character.  I think the Duchess of Kent was talking to Lord Alfred Paget, who in the show is possibly Lord Chamberlain, and in Real History was still five years away from entering the Queen's service as Chief Equerry... Wiki is my friend.

Than you for answering my question and correcting my mistake.  That is what I get for not double checking on Wiki or imdb!  You are correct that we have never seen Harriet's husband and we probably never will.

[Constantinople]

2 hours ago, magdalene said:

Personally I find Ernest much more attractive than Albert. Though his romance with the married woman is too eye roll inducing to my cynical self.  A lock of her hair - really?

The comparison shouldn't be between Ernest and Albert but between Ernest in a penicillin free world and Albert.

[humbleopinion]

In Young Victoria, Lehzen was sent away by Albert but Daisy Goodwin is having her stick around.

Am guessing she is needed to to keep barging in when Victoria and Albert are procreating.

Learn to knock...will ya?

[Brattinella]

7 minutes ago, humbleopinion said:

In Young Victoria, Lehzen was sent away by Albert but Daisy Goodwin is having her stick around.

Am guessing she is needed to to keep barging in when Victoria and Albert are procreating.

Learn to knock...will ya?

Seriously, the first thing I said was "Hasn't she trained them to KNOCK?"

[skyways]

I liked the episode and of course Ernst. I see Edith finally drove Mr Drew mad. Was bound to happen.

[humbleopinion]

How charming was the scene when Victoria was using her swollen belly as a tray table holding her marrons glaces...

Chomping on them like a cow does a cud.

Looked up how to make marrons glace...

Boil (the difficult to crack open in one piece) chestnuts in caster sugar over and over with the process taking 4 days until the nut is infused with the sugar syrup and then dried in a low oven for 2 hours.

The way Victoria was working them over you'd think they were coated with stiff taffy but marrons glace are softer because the boiled chestnut  is soft and the sugary coating is soft.

Leopold managed to eat it daintily when offered by Victoria.

[Meredith Quill]

Mod Note:

A number of posts which violated this forum's spoiler policy for episode topics have been removed. Please use the History topic to talk about historical inaccuracies or 'correct' something on the show, and use the Season 2 Speculation topic to discuss what might happen in Season 2. 

Thank you.

[kwnyc]

Quote

A lock of her hair - really?

Since Ernst was also a frequenter of "nunneries," he probably knew that giving a case of the clap to a Duchess would probably not go over well.

[TaurusRose]

On 3/6/2017 at 2:44 AM, voiceover said:

Oh, my dear Ernest! only a lock of hair??  Albert appears to be the only man on this series who's gettin' some.  I guess 20 years ago, I would've swooned at the Romance of it 

I thought it was very decent of him at the very least.  The woman he is in love with is married with children, and if he cared for her as much as he wanted Albert to believe what would dishonoring her and her marriage accomplish?  Nothing except to ruin her and confirm Albert's opinion of his brother's whorish ways.

22 hours ago, iMonrey said:

So that happened. All in all I enjoyed the season. It paled in comparison to the quality of The Crown or the addictiveness of Downton Abbey, but it was still fun. I think we all agree the servant characters never really got off the ground and the show failed to make us care about them to any great extent. I gather we were supposed to feel something for Skerritt crying over the loss of Francatelli but I was unsure if it meant she regretted not going with him or if she was just sorry to see him go.

Really, I could give a shit about Skerrett and Francatelli.  I hope we are done having to see them. The others don't annoy me so much because we just get little snapshots of them going about their business.  They are not intended to draw us into a B plot.  And since this is not Downton Abbey, I don't understand why any attempt was even made with Nancy and Charles. 

20 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

She thought newborn babies were ugly. 

Lots of them are.  I feel for Victoria.  If she had been born a century later, she'd been able to enjoy all the sex she wanted and control childbearing; maybe even limiting the number of children she had to 2-3 instead of 9.  Not every woman is thrilled about babies or pregnancy or dying to become a mother; so, I don't hold her negative feelings about the entire process against her.  This was not my favorite episode, but I will be around for next season because I find the lead actors charming in their roles.

[Literata]

20 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

She thought newborn babies were ugly. 

Poor thing -- her newborn babies likely thought the same of her. As we all know, Victoria was nothing to look at. The lovely Jenna Coleman was a generous choice. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

Witnessing all aspects of Royal reproduction used to be commonplace; especially since marriages were international treaties.

I wonder if the custom had fallen out of fashion by the time Queen Victoria came to the throne, though. There was a reference to the wedding guests putting the married couple to bed in an earlier episode when they're talking about wedding plans (the reason royal weddings are held in the evening). That custom had certainly died off by then.

Quote

Will Daisy Goodwin pen Penge and Lehzen as the new Mr. Carson and Mrs. Hughes in Season 2?

It's unfortunate that few writers handle criticism well enough to correct things that aren't working, which is why I suspect Goodwin is more likely to double down on the servant stories than eliminate them altogether. To that end, I can only hope she improves them.

[CarpeDiem54]

27 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I wonder if the custom had fallen out of fashion by the time Queen Victoria came to the throne, though. There was a reference to the wedding guests putting the married couple to bed in an earlier episode when they're talking about wedding plans (the reason royal weddings are held in the evening). That custom had certainly died off by then.

 

Taking to the Historical thread.

[Cyranetta]

I loved the long tracking shot at the very end, emphasizing the personal leading to the national.

[EyewatchTV211]

On 3/6/2017 at 7:20 PM, magdalene said:

  A lock of her hair - really?

I think locks of hair were actually a "thing" around this time period.  

[magdalene]

22 hours ago, Constantinople said:

The comparison shouldn't be between Ernest and Albert but between Ernest in a penicillin free world and Albert.

I meant I find the actor playing Ernst more attractive than the actor playing Albert. 

 

32 minutes ago, VMepicgrl said:

I think locks of hair were actually a "thing" around this time period.  

I know.  I just find it somewhat incredulous that Ernst, who is supposed to be a rake, yes?  would be content with a lock of hair.

[EyewatchTV211]

5 minutes ago, magdalene said:

I meant I find the actor playing Ernst more attractive than the actor playing Albert. 

 

I know.  I just find it somewhat incredulous that Ernst, who is supposed to be a rake, yes?  would be content with a lock of hair.

I see. I doubt he was content with it. But yes, he seems like the type who would not be able to stop himself from having what he wants. 

Edited March 8, 2017 by VMepicgrl

[LittleIggy]

On 3/6/2017 at 7:20 PM, magdalene said:

Personally I find Ernest much more attractive than Albert. Though his romance with the married woman is too eye roll inducing to my cynical self.  A lock of her hair - really?

Oh yeah! Ernst is much hotter than Albert.

[Nire]

I'll definitely return for the next season but I hope it's better.  This final episode was kind of meh.  I really would like to see the servants storylines gone or at least a lot less.  I did enjoy the short storyline with the wet nurse having to give her child to someone else.  Very short scene but I cared a lot more for her than for Nancy.

I'd rather see Cumberland more fleshed out as as character or more of Ernest than this focus on the servants.  

Anyone else find the labor scene odd.  It sounded like Victoria was pushing but there wasn't anyone awaiting to catch the baby or checking her progress.

[taanja]

On ‎3‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 3:02 PM, iMonrey said:

 I will happily watch another season of this but I would hope the writer takes a hard look at what worked and what didn't before moves forward. She's probably not inclined to throw in the towel and admit defeat over the servant characters so she needs to fix them. There really aren't that many to deal with - Penge, Skerrett, Brodie, Mrs. Jenkins and Lohlein - that's about it. They need to be fleshed out more and given more to do. We also need to know more about these ladies like the Duchess of Sutherland if they're going to be hanging about. 

I will happily watch another season as well. I enjoyed almost everything except maybe some of the downstairs servants. I can't even remember any of their names! They all seemed so random.

I have always been interested in Queen Victoria-- the "grandmother of Europe". And she and Albert were famous for their love. I feel like the show has portrayed that. Plus I like little Jenna Coleman and I think she is doing a fine job with the material she was given.

The actor who played Lord Melborn (sp?) and the actress who plays Victoria-- should really get a gig where they play romantic love interests! They had amazing chemistry.

[Toothbrush]

Unpopular Opinion Alert: I do not mind the downstairs stories and felt bad for Miss Skerrett. I do think she had changed her mind about leaving with Francatelli but it was too late. Brodie quoting Shakespeare was amusing. 

Victoria using her belly as a table was funny! I did the same thing; usually for a bowl of ice cream. My mom told me that she used her pregnant belly for an ashtray (it was the 60s & 70s)! That scene with Leopold broke my heart. 

On 3/7/2017 at 11:43 PM, LittleIggy said:

Oh yeah! Ernst is much hotter than Albert.

I think Albert is hotter looks-wise, but Ernst is hotter chemistry-wise. 

On 3/17/2017 at 9:16 AM, taanja said:

The actor who played Lord Melborn (sp?) and the actress who plays Victoria-- should really get a gig where they play romantic love interests! They had amazing chemistry.

Rufus Sewell is so freaking hot, and I think he would have amazing chemistry with a paper bag!

Duke of Cumberland/King Hanover was such a ghoul! 

[Stephanie1216]

The actor playing Ernest is in the series The White Queen playing the kings younger brother and he is very handsome and I have always LOVED his voice.  I'm American so not a great historian but I do like to follow modern English royal family news more so than the average person but certainly I'm no expert. My daughters name is Victoria simply because we liked old classic names Elizabeth Caroline Alexandra etc. but I was glad to see something about queen Victoria. 

The show had her stomping around acting bratty for the most part and I didn't care for that. An 18 year old back then would have been a mature woman not a college co-ed.

I did know she was totally devoted to her husband. I didn't know how much she hated pregnancy and breast feeding. In modern days a woman would never have the nerve to admit such a thing. Women have to act like its beautiful and fulfilling and they are living the dream. It's a bloody mess literally and no one today has the guts to say it.

Its no Downton Abbey and the downstairs story I would fast forward through. So that did not really take off.

I do love The Crown, I binge watched it a couple of months ago and it was excellent. In particular Churchills secretary Venetia had the same name, pronunciation and spelling as my sister which I have never seen any before. My mother still can't explain to me where or how she found that name.

[Roseanna]

On ‎7‎.‎3‎.‎2017 at 9:52 PM, taurusrose said:

I thought it was very decent of him at the very least.  The woman he is in love with is married with children, and if he cared for her as much as he wanted Albert to believe what would dishonoring her and her marriage accomplish?  Nothing except to ruin her and confirm Albert's opinion of his brother's whorish ways.

Actually, an aristocratic woman could have, and often did, affairs after she had given birth to an heir and a spare, provided that she kept them secret. "Secret" was realtive as the servants and guests in weekend parties knew of them but didn't usually talk.

That Albert began to lecture his brothe because of his alleged affair after letting someone to spy him was highly improper behavior for a man of his standing.     

On ‎8‎.‎3‎.‎2017 at 3:44 AM, VMepicgrl said:

I see. I doubt he was content with it. But yes, he seems like the type who would not be able to stop himself from having what he wants. 

The show evidently wanted to say that one can't a person's heart from outside.

Ernest proved to be a Romantic soul: sex was dirty and therefore only with prostitues, love was pure and therefore only worthy for "a good woman". Having sex with her had would have killed his love, by refusing to have sex he could love her for ever.

Which is quite odd because that "love" lived only in his heart, not in reality.

On ‎19‎.‎3‎.‎2017 at 10:11 PM, Stephanie1216 said:

I did know she was totally devoted to her husband. I didn't know how much she hated pregnancy and breast feeding. 

Victoria didn't evidently know that breast-feeding could transfer the next pregnancy a bit further although it was by no means sure.  

[TaurusRose]

On 5/25/2017 at 4:35 AM, Roseanna said:

Actually, an aristocratic woman could have, and often did, affairs after she had given birth to an heir and a spare, provided that she kept them secret. "Secret" was realtive as the servants and guests in weekend parties knew of them but didn't usually talk.

Where did you get the idea that Albert had someone spy on Ernst?  And just because a high born woman could doesn't mean she would.  As you pointed out secrecy was her only protection and that's an extremely flimsy foundation.  Servants could be bribed or ambitious.  If Harriet was outed, and her husband vindictive, she would be ruined or permanently removed from her children's lives, as was the case with Albert's and Ernst's mother. Both brothers were painfully aware of the consequences of unfaithfulness in a marriage. I believe Ernst loved Harriet and did not want to put her at risk by starting a sexual relationship with her.

[Roseanna]

1 hour ago, taurusrose said:

Where did you get the idea that Albert had someone spy on Ernst?  

I don't think that anybody would have come to Albert on his own to tell that Ernest had been on Harriet's room.

[twoods]

I just binged this show in two days (thanks Amazon prime!) and absolutely loved it. I loved seeing Victoria and Albert's relationship and how they both complimented eachother. I don't know if it was the storytelling or watching the actors falling in love onscreen, but it was intriguing to watch. I guess I love those brooding, emo men (may explain my love for Richard Armitage in North and South).

 

I didn't mind the downstairs staff and their stories, or the dress and jewelry porn. Looking forward to season two on PBS.

Edited September 24, 2017 by twoods

[Peace 47]

@twoods made their post awhile back, but “emo” is exactly the word that sprang to mind when I saw the character of Albert for the first time on this show. 

I’ve been watching the S1 episodes for the first time on PBS as they amp up their reruns prior to the new episodes, and Albert really rubbed me the wrong way at first, but by this episode, I thought that he seems like a decent, caring, loyal person, and I’ve pretty much gotten past that somewhat annoyingly dramatic stage whisper every time he opens his mouth.

I liked this episode because it didn’t sugarcoat pregnancy at all and felt like it realistically portrayed the level of fear and discomfort that Victoria likely would have felt.  I found it very touching that she wanted the baroness and the prince at her side, and even her mother (no matter how wrought the relationship, I could definitely see her wanting her mother at that moment).

Edited January 8, 2018 by Peace 47