S01.E01: Pilot

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Is Ryan Murphy's Feud Good Enough To Make Sure Ya Are In That Chair Every Week?

Bette Davis and Joan Crawford's legendary rivalry gets a shot at immortality for the Peak TV generation.

[mariah23]

7 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

So far I love it.  Don't care about Sarandon's politics.  I try not to let an actors politics inform my enjoyment of their acting.  It mostly works.  Then again I don't watch too many interviews, news or entertainment show.

Alison Wright is playing another secretary.  Think she's a Russian spy?

Lot of swearing and lot of smoking.  I am going to enjoy this.

i did find it interesting how sexist Tucci's charcter was.  He didn't even pretend to be anything else.  Between the vulgar language, the animosity and the slapping the woman on the ass.  

Then again women tended to be their own worst enemy.  Jedda Hopper looking for dirt and getting bored and annoyed when Davis and Crawford behaved themselves at dinner. 

Yeah I think I am going to enjoy this's. 

Hey what do you think will happen if only one of the women get nominated?  

 

Google Jack Warner and you'll find out just how -ist he was. Massive dick.  I wish Murphy would do a Feud on Jack Warner and his older brother Harry.  Just to see Stanley Tucci running around the WB lot while the actor who would play Harry chasing him with a metal pipe.  Google that too!

[annzeepark914]

I don't think either actor (SS and JL) can be Bette and Joan.  They'd have to be impersonators and impersonators usually aren't actors.  And if Susan tried to sound like Bette, I believe she'd be ridiculed.  Even though, IMO, Jessica is too refined looking to be Joan, I'm getting the insecurities, angst, etc from this actor showing what a sad figure Crawford was.  Susan looks like she could be Bette's daughter but she's not as extreme looking as Bette.  I think it's going to get even better next week when they start showing them filming the movie.  Oh yeah--I sure hope they show some more Mamacita!  She reminds me of Fred Armisen playing all those female characters on SNL.

[psychoticstate]

8 hours ago, monakane said:

Last year I read biographies of both women.  Bette would often fight with the studios to look unattractive for a role especially when she was younger.  Joan was too insecure to not look glamorous all of the time.  Joan had a terrible childhood.  As an adult, I think she showed all the signs of someone who had been sexually abused as a child.   I've never read that she was abused, but I do get that sense about her.

 

7 hours ago, qtpye said:

I read in the slate review that Joan's insistence on looking perfect every second, makes her acting seem very stylized and dated.  I remember watching her Oscar winning performance in Mildred Pierce and thinking, this woman does not seem like an abandoned house wife that claws her way from waitress to millionaire.  It was a good performance, but she did not seem to want to get to the grit of the character.

I have always heard about Joan's horrible childhood.  I really wish someone would show the horrible poverty and degradation she went through.  It is hard to imagine the polished ice queen we see on the outside, coming from that type of background.  It also would appall us, as we are not used to seeing children being almost enslaved by their cruel environment.  A lot of horrible stuff happens to children now, but I think we would be shocked at what was considered acceptable then, particularly among the poor.

Bette Davis was a force to be reckoned with and many of her roles still hold up to a modern audience.  She was not as insecure as Crawford, which showed up in her pathetically giving presents to the crew ( and pretending to care about them), to get better lighting and shots.

Betty Davis was not a conventional beauty or star, but she KNEW she could act circles around anybody.

Joan did indeed have a very bad childhood.   Her older sister died as a baby or toddler.  Her mother worked in a laundry and Joan said later on that her mother wasn't exactly discerning when it came to men.  She questioned whether she and her brother Hal were full siblings.  Joan's mother favored Hall.  Joan was close with her stepfather Henry Cassin but he eventually left as well.  She had to work at Stephens College, where she was treated poorly by the paying students, for her lack of money and lack of education.  Joan was self conscious about that for her entire life. 

She admitted in a later interview that she became sexually active very young.  I would not be surprised at all if she had been sexually abused.  She very much valued her worth not just on her appearance but on her attractiveness to men and being in a relationship with a man.  

It's truly sad because she was a pioneer of sorts.  She adopted a child as a single woman when it simply was not done in California.  She didn't graciously exit the industry when she hit the then dreaded age of 40 (officially or otherwise.)   She learned the names of every person working at the studio, no matter how "small" their job was, and the names of their spouses and children.  For many years she kept an open hospital room for people who could not afford to pay and she anonymously paid their bills.   She was fiercely loyal to her fans, saying that if it weren't for them, she would be back in Kansas City, working in a laundromat.  She did dress to the nines when she went out, saying that's what the fans wanted to see, and she kept them apprised of where she was (in the age before the internet, cell phones and celebrity stalking.) 

She was most definitely a complex character, a sometimes difficult and troubled woman who became an alcoholic later in life, but a wonderfully fascinating woman who had one of the longest careers in Hollywood and one that started from nowhere.  (Not to take away from Davis because she too had a lengthy career but she was stage trained and had a mother that was supporting her; Crawford had neither.) 

Obviously I'm a huge fan. ;) 

8 hours ago, merylinkid said:

Btw, what is up with Bette always calling Joan "LUcille?"   Is that her real name?   Too lazy to go IMDB it.

Her real name was Lucille LeSueur.

 

I didn't feel well last night so I haven't watched this yet but will be firing it up as soon as I get home from work!  Can't wait!  

[Jan Spears]

On ‎3‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 3:49 PM, annzeepark914 said:

I don't think either actor (SS and JL) can be Bette and Joan.  They'd have to be impersonators and impersonators usually aren't actors.  And if Susan tried to sound like Bette, I believe she'd be ridiculed.  Even though, IMO, Jessica is too refined looking to be Joan, I'm getting the insecurities, angst, etc from this actor showing what a sad figure Crawford was.

Agreed. If Lange and Sarandon tried to imitate Crawford and Davis too closely, they would resemble Crawford and Davis impersonators too much and the camp factor would overwhelm the underlying story the mini-series is trying to tell.

Overall, I loved it. I thought Lange had the best scene when she was in her bedroom and she started recounting the slights (real and imagined) that she felt she had endured from Davis in particular and Hollywood more generally. You really saw that, beneath the formidable exterior, Crawford was a bundle of insecurities.

I thought the period aspect was great and the producers/writers really did their homework with all the references. For instance, the dialogue about "Franchot" (Franchot Tone, who was an MGM star during the 1930s) was all true. Both women wanted to marry him in the 30s and Crawford did. (He was her second husband after Douglas Fairbanks Jr.) When Hedda Hopper snidely mentioned to Crawford that she knew she was selling her "William Haines custom furniture", she was referring to Billy Haines who was Crawford's fellow star at MGM during the silent movie and early talkie eras. His career petered out in the early 30s (while Crawford's continued to soar) not least because he refused to give up his life partner, Jimmie Shields, to contract a phony, studio-arranged marriage. (Crawford once said of Haines and Shields that, "they are the happiest married couple in Hollywood.") Haines reinvented himself as a successful interior decorator and one of his first clients was Crawford, which is how Hopper knew which dig to make with Crawford. It was little touches of dialogue like these that really added to the period flavor.

Finally, loved Judy Davis as Hedda Hopper, especially the scene in which she none-too-subtly blackmailed Crawford into giving her the snippy quote about Marilyn Monroe.

Edited March 9, 2017 by Jan Spears

[SoSueMe]

Catherine Zeta Jones really captured Olivia De Haviland's manner of speech.

[Jan Spears]

One other piece of dialogue I liked was when the crew member, on the first day of shooting Baby Jane, enthused about Crawford's face and how, "you could film it from any angle." This was taken directly from legendary director George Cukor's tribute to Crawford after she died (see the first full paragraph):

http://www.joancrawfordbest.com/cukortribute.htm

[Growsonwalls]

One thing about B.D. -- in the pilot they show her as a surly teenager. B.D.'s later life is pretty interesting and I wonder if the series will touch upon that at all.

Spoiler

 

She married at the age of 16 and became a born-again Christian. She later wrote an unflattering tell-all memoir about her mother that led to her permanent estrangement from her mother and her sibling Michael Merrill. AFAIK Michael Merrill (who runs a FB group devoted to his mother) still refuses to talk to B.D. 

From all accounts Bette was absolutely crushed by the memoir. She had prided herself on being a hands-on, involved parent despite her busy career. 

 

Edited March 7, 2017 by saoirse
Spoiler tagged parts about future history.

[hypnotoad]

Quote

I was always a Bette Davis fan and never really cared for Joan Crawford movies.

Me too and that is holding true for this series - at least so far. Sure SS isn't doing a Bette Davis voice, but I think if she was trying that it would probably not be terrific. The way she is trying to capture Bette rather than imitate her is working for me.

I love Jessica Lange but she is playing an actress I have never liked at all. I always find Crawford very limited and cold in her roles while I find Davis to be very alive in her movies. Davis was willing to do whatever it took to play a role and I really respect that about her. 

I'm all in for this.

[annzeepark914]

Did anyone pick up on Olivia de Havilland's remark about the source of the nastiness between the two women?  She said it didn't come from hatred; it came from pain.  She looked sad when she said that and I immediately thought of the feud between Olivia and her sister, Joan Fontaine.  (don't know if this has already been  mentioned here)

Edited March 7, 2017 by annzeepark914

[txhorns79]

Quote

It's kind of interesting that they've cast the main roles with actresses noticeably older than the characters were at this point; Crawford and Davis were in their early 50s at this point, but Lange is in her late 60s and Sarandon is 70.  It's particularly notable in the latter case, since they've got teenager Kiernan Shipka as her bio-daughter.

I think you can fanwank it a little with the idea that the smoking and drinking really aged both actresses prematurely.  Though I think Sarandon can pass for someone a decade or so younger.  She's kept herself up pretty well. 

Quote

Kathy Bates seems nothing like Joan Blondell to me.

I kind of feel like Kathy Bates is just playing Kathy Bates at this point. 

I'm definitely enjoying it so far. 

[Morrigan2575]

I liked the pilot, will continue watching. Right now I feel like Lange is doing a good job as Crawford. However, I'm not feeling Sarandon's Davis. Maybe that'll change but I almost feel like Sarandon is too timid in the role.

[GreekGeek]

3 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

One thing about B.D. -- in the pilot they show her as a surly teenager. B.D.'s later life is pretty interesting and I wonder if the series will touch upon that at all.

Spoiler

 

She married at the age of 16 and became a born-again Christian. She later wrote an unflattering tell-all memoir about her mother that led to her permanent estrangement from her mother and her sibling Michael Merrill. AFAIK Michael Merrill (who runs a FB group devoted to his mother) still refuses to talk to B.D. 

From all accounts Bette was absolutely crushed by the memoir. She had prided herself on being a hands-on, involved parent despite her busy career. 

 

 

Spoiler

It's ironic that when Mommie Dearest came out, Davis gloated that her own daughter would never write a book like that! 

I haven't been this excited about Sunday night since Mad Men ended. The title sequence even reminds me of Mad Men, except that this time it's a woman plummeting. I thoroughly enjoyed the first episode. One unsung hero thus far is Alfred Molina's Robert Aldrich. Bravo to him for fighting to make a picture starring "old broads," and what a saint for putting up with their craziness!

Who was the man with Crawford at the Golden Globes? A lover? I had a "hey, it's that guy" moment when I saw Reed Diamond's name in the credits. 

According to this article, Crawford's real feud was with Marilyn Monroe.

Edited March 7, 2017 by saoirse
Spoiler tagged parts about future history.

[Adultosaurus]

LOVE this - and hopefully this will be a shoo-in for Emmy costuming.  

[Nordly Beaumont]

22 hours ago, Valny said:

Nordly Beaumont -I'm a huge BD fan too, what's some of your fave films?

Meet me in the small talk thread?

[For Cereals]

I love anything about this period in Hollywood, especially the decor.  I need a bathroom bar.

 I don't like Sarandon as Bette Davis.  I know impersonations would be OTT, but I need a little something extra for Davis.  

Jessica Lange can do no wrong for me, but it does make me wish Faye Dunaway were a few years younger. 

I think Judy Davis was in her element. I always felt she belonged in another era, although she's always looked sickly to me. 

[Quilt Fairy]

3 hours ago, GreekGeek said:

Who was the man with Crawford at the Golden Globes? A lover?

They haven't explained who he is, and he's apparently living with her.  Is he her current husband? And if she was married to the guy who owned Pepsi, why is she now so broke she's selling off the furniture?

[J-Man]

I don't have any problem with the swearing, but it really seemed wrong for Joan to say "bitch" at a press conference. Stars, especially someone like Joan Crawford, wouldn't have used that kind of language with the press. 

[maraleia]

I'm having such a hard time with Susan's performance and it boils down to the fact that she hasn't done anything worth talking about in years so her acting has gotten choppy and stale. Maybe that's what everyone else here is experiencing. Let me know if I'm way off base.

[SWLinPHX]

14 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

I'm confused--I feel like that makes the exact opposite point.

 

15 hours ago, voiceover said:

If I'd meant that I would have said it, so, no.

Sam Staggs' All About "All About Eve" is a gossipy delight and frankly, the miniseries I'd rather be watching now.

Wait, huh?  Aren't you two saying that women looked much older then than at the same age today???

Edited March 7, 2017 by SWLinPHX

[NutMeg]

i'm loving this so far and I think the casting of Susan Sarandon is spot on - that scene were she walks on as Jane? Goose bumps.

[wallofsound]

I love every single thing about Joan Crawford's house, both inside and out.   Loved it in Mommie Dearest also, so her real home must have been somewhat similar.   Love the homes exterior, the furniture, the wallpaper, the umbrellas by the pool, her bathroom & vanity, .... love every inch of that decor.   I love how fancy she is and the fancy, ladylike way she talks.   Who acts like that?  I love it.  

So, did she really find the Baby Jane book (or send Mamacita to find books) and pushed herself for it to be made into a movie?  Or was she involved a bit more indirectly in its inception?   I don't know the history behind it at all.   

[Jan Spears]

15 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

They haven't explained who he is, and he's apparently living with her.  Is he her current husband? And if she was married to the guy who owned Pepsi, why is she now so broke she's selling off the furniture?

Al Steele didn't own Pepsi. He was Chairman of the Board and CEO. When he died in 1959, he left an estate of some value to Crawford. But, estate taxes diminished the value of the estate to almost nothing. Also, he and Crawford had undertaken a very expensive renovation of a New York apartment at the time of his death. So, she really was cash poor in the run-up to the making of Baby Jane.

She took a part in the 1959 movie The Best of Everything for the money. It was a supporting part and it was seen by Crawford and the rest of Hollywood as a comedown after 30 years of playing leads. (The irony of it was that she stole the movie from the ostensible leads.) She didn't make another feature for three years after that. Pepsi was also trying to get rid of her during this time and she had to fight like hell to stay involved with the company.

Edited March 7, 2017 by Jan Spears

[sasha206]

On 3/6/2017 at 2:52 AM, Harry24 said:

Better.  She's almost too gorgeous.  And I also think she's doing a great job.  Still, I would have loved to have seen Judy Davis take a shot at the role.  She's got the requisite acidity.

Agreed!

Casting is brilliant though.  Both of them resemble their characters.  However, Lange's plastic surgery and filler face make Crawford look far older and worse than Davis.  Crawford still looked fairly attractive when she shot Baby Jane.  

[JenE4]

I'd like to give a special shout out to all of the posters who have added so much background biography/history. I'm enthralled with the look/feel/vintage of this program without having much background knowledge on Crawford--other than as portrayed in Mommie Dearest--and nothing about Davis at all, so I'm very impressed by and interested in all of these real-life tidbits. Thank you for enhancing my viewing pleasure! 

[NutMeg]

I'm just curious, if Joan Crawford really thought of What Happen to Baby Jane, how did she never consider playing Jane? Was it because she wanted to have the most sympathetic role? How could she not see that Bette Davis as Jane would steal the show? Or did Bette Davis really add a demented element to the character that the show runners hadn't foreseen?

So far, for me, Susan Sarrandon is stealing the show, voice accuracy or not. I always love Jessica Lange, but I see Jessica Lange, not Joan Crawford.  

[bmoore4026]

It just occurred to me while rewatching the first episode the poignancy of Olivia DiHaviland's words about feuds, that they are never about hate but about pain.  Considering Olivia's relationship with her sister, Joan Fontaine, it really spoke volumes and was a bit ironic.  Sadly so.

[hoodooznoodooz]

4 hours ago, SWLinPHX said:

 

Wait, huh?  Aren't you two saying that women looked much older then than at the same age today???

I think tattleteeny agrees with you, as do I. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

They sort of suggested that Joan was bisexual--if not actually lesbian. I did not know that. And I never realized how insecure she was about Bette Davis in particular. Seems like it was almost pathological.

So far I'm impressed with Jessica as Joan but Susan as Bette, not so much. She just seems like she's playing herself to me. I think she should've attempted to do at least a bit of Bette's distinctive voice. She's got the look right though.

This is going to win awards for set decoration and costuming. Absolutely stunning.

Was Mamacita a real person or is this production just using her to externalize Joan's inner dialogue?

[Ina123]

22 hours ago, meowmommy said:

 Kathy Bates seems nothing like Joan Blondell to me.

 

Oh, gosh. I thought she nailed Blondell at that time period and she had gotten considerably overweight.

Edited March 7, 2017 by Ina123

[SoSueMe]

2 hours ago, NutMeg said:

I'm just curious, if Joan Crawford really thought of What Happen to Baby Jane, how did she never consider playing Jane? Was it because she wanted to have the most sympathetic role? How could she not see that Bette Davis as Jane would steal the show? Or did Bette Davis really add a demented element to the character that the show runners hadn't foreseen?

So far, for me, Susan Sarrandon is stealing the show, voice accuracy or not. I always love Jessica Lange, but I see Jessica Lange, not Joan Crawford.  

JL is letting a lot of almost Southern gentility seep into her performance. Someone else mentioned that the coarseness of JC is lacking and I agree. SS is doing about as well as anyone could, she is getting the BD phrasing somewhat. 

What's up with Ryan Murhpy's little cameo, lol. Trying to be Hitchcock :D

[NutMeg]

10 minutes ago, SoSueMe said:

JL is letting a lot of almost Southern gentility seep into her performance. Someone else mentioned that the coarseness of JC is lacking and I agree. SS is doing about as well as anyone could, she is getting the BD phrasing somewhat. 

What's up with Ryan Murhpy's little cameo, lol. Trying to be Hitchcock :D

What what what!? What cameo? When, where?

[psychoticstate]

I loved this.  I love the story, the set design, the costumes, everything.

My only nitpick (so far) is that Crawford actually sold her Brentwood house in 1956, after marrying Al Steele.  She was living full time in New York by the time Baby Jane came around. 

I think Jessica Lange is doing a splendid job showing how controlled JC was at all times (unless she was drunk.)  I think Susan Sarandon is fine in a difficult role because BD had a personality that was larger than life and very difficult to capture without it going into caricature.  

I've read this before and I think it's true - - JC admired BD for being an actress; BD admired JC for being a movie star.  Both women admired the other but didn't want to say so.  They were definitely far more similar than either would ever want to admit.

Someone asked upthread who the man living with JC was.  I would guess he's supposed to be Greg Bautzer, a Hollywood attorney that Crawford had an on again-off again relationship with.  He never lived with her thought.  By this time in her real life, she was no longer involved with him and had not been for quite some time. 

And while Mamacita was a real person I don't think she was with JC until her later years.  JC had a personal secretary for many years, as was shown in the film Mommie Dearest. 

I think Ryan Murphy is consolidating some characters and using others for dramatic impact but nothing that's going to affect the meat and potatoes of the story.

[A Boston Gal]

As if I wasn't swooning enough over this show, they go and have Kathy Bates as Joan Blondell, which just had me squeeing like a star struck teen. Amazing! Of course, since 90% of my Blondell recollections comes from "Here Come the Brides", I found it to be perfect casting. As always, YMMV. But still!!  :)

[monakane]

3 minutes ago, A Boston Gal said:

As if I wasn't swooning enough over this show, they go and have Kathy Bates as Joan Blondell, which just had me squeeing like a star struck teen. Amazing! Of course, since 90% of my Blondell recollections comes from "Here Come the Brides", I found it to be perfect casting. As always, YMMV. But still!!  :)

My memories of Joan Blondell were from the movies she made in the 1930's.  I'm a "pre-code" junkie and Joan was one of my favorites from that era.  I love Kathy Bates and she conveys Joan's "brassiness" even as an older woman.

[SoSueMe]

19 minutes ago, NutMeg said:

What what what!? What cameo? When, where?

I'm sorry, I just went back and watched again. I was thinking of the stage hand that told Bette that JC was there to see her in her dressing room after the play. Not Ryan, my mistake.  

[One Imaginary Girl]

This article mentions the Mamacita story, and it does sort of sound like she arrived later: The 5 Most Incredibly Bizarre Joan Crawford Details.  Between the article and the show, they're painting a much more sympathetic picture of Joan, whom I was really only familiar with through Mommie Dearest.

The credits and production design already are making me super eager to see what they do with the '80s and '90s on the planned Charles and Diana season.

[poeticlicensed]

Here's a picture of the real Mamacita. She was Austrian

I think she is stuffing the arms with tissue paper before packing. I NEED a Mamacita in my life!

Edited March 7, 2017 by poeticlicensed

[Chris Knight]

6 hours ago, wallofsound said:

I love every single thing about Joan Crawford's house, both inside and out.   Loved it in Mommie Dearest also, so her real home must have been somewhat similar.   Love the homes exterior, the furniture, the wallpaper, the umbrellas by the pool, her bathroom & vanity, .... love every inch of that decor.   I love how fancy she is and the fancy, ladylike way she talks.   Who acts like that?  I love it.  

So, did she really find the Baby Jane book (or send Mamacita to find books) and pushed herself for it to be made into a movie?  Or was she involved a bit more indirectly in its inception?   I don't know the history behind it at all.   

In the early-mid 90s, my sister & I went to Hollywood and did star map tours. Great fun ! Crawford 's Brentwood home had not been renovated yet and was fascinating to see. Google her old home and you will find at least what they purport to be interior pics. The site I remember seeing also had interior pics of her NYC apt.

[PrincessSteel]

I know that not everyone saw Mommie Dearest, but parts of setting up JC's character seemed lifted directly from that movie, which seems lazy coming from Ryan Murphy.

[ghoulina]

6 hours ago, JenE4 said:

 

I'd like to give a special shout out to all of the posters who have added so much background biography/history. I'm enthralled with the look/feel/vintage of this program without having much background knowledge on Crawford--other than as portrayed in Mommie Dearest--and nothing about Davis at all, so I'm very impressed by and interested in all of these real-life tidbits. Thank you for enhancing my viewing pleasure! 

 

I second this, wholeheartedly! This is the main reason I'm posting here. I knew I would enjoy the show just for the look and feel of it, but getting all the dirt from you guys makes it even more fun. 

 

3 hours ago, psychoticstate said:

I've read this before and I think it's true - - JC admired BD for being an actress; BD admired JC for being a movie star.  Both women admired the other but didn't want to say so.  They were definitely far more similar than either would ever want to a

Ahhhh, and that's what makes a feud so much more interesting. 

[psychoticstate]

6 hours ago, NutMeg said:

I'm just curious, if Joan Crawford really thought of What Happen to Baby Jane, how did she never consider playing Jane? Was it because she wanted to have the most sympathetic role? How could she not see that Bette Davis as Jane would steal the show? Or did Bette Davis really add a demented element to the character that the show runners hadn't foreseen?

So far, for me, Susan Sarrandon is stealing the show, voice accuracy or not. I always love Jessica Lange, but I see Jessica Lange, not Joan Crawford.  

@NutMeg it was actually a secretary that sent Bob Aldrich the book, not Crawford.  Aldrich had worked with JC previously on Autumn Leaves (a great little film) and knew that she wished to work with him again and had a longtime wish to work with Bette Davis.   So this was just a bit of creative license for the show.

JC always knew that BD would play Jane.  As ambitious as JC was, she was also very business savvy.  I think she realized that having BD play Jane was the wiser choice (acting wise) and knowing that BD was perfect for the role, had no issues with letting her take it.  

[marsha]

I absolutely hated it and thought they were all dreadful. I'll keep watching though because the relationship between Miss Crawford (honestly, Lange is ridiculous in the part and I mean they may as well gone all the way and hired present day Stockard Channing) and Mamacita (the always divine Miss Jackie Hoffman) that has a whole American Horror Story vibe to it. You might call me ...,torn.

[ashleylm]

Loved it.  Loved the art direction, loved the costumes, loved the pacing, loved the performances, love the subject matter, just loved it.  I've watched All About Eve approximately 276 times, and SS nailed the walk down the stairs--my sig. other didn't realise it was her, he thought they'd just included footage from the actual film. So glad (I'm squeamish) I'm able to watch a Ryan Murphy show again.

Edited March 7, 2017 by ashleylm

[annzeepark914]

There was a post a while back about Joan Crawford's dismal childhood.  I've read in several recent articles that she also was sexually abused by her stepfather.   So, no wonder she was such a miserable person (and mother!)

[blaase]

10 hours ago, NutMeg said:

I'm just curious, if Joan Crawford really thought of What Happen to Baby Jane, how did she never consider playing Jane? Was it because she wanted to have the most sympathetic role? How could she not see that Bette Davis as Jane would steal the show? Or did Bette Davis really add a demented element to the character that the show runners hadn't foreseen?

So far, for me, Susan Sarrandon is stealing the show, voice accuracy or not. I always love Jessica Lange, but I see Jessica Lange, not Joan Crawford.  

I think Joan knew that Bette was the superior trained actor. Joan wanted this movie to be a success first and foremost this was a very important film to her and Bette's careers at that time.

 

I have always loved Joan. To me she is  the first rags to superstardom story in Hollywood. I admire how driven she was , she did not have the money, the name or the education but she used her wit, sexuality, beauty and charm to crawl her way to the very top of Hollywood and with the right role she could knock it out of the ballpark as an actor. Once at the top her dedication to her fans kept her there.

[Anela]

On 3/6/2017 at 0:26 PM, Cherrio said:

Iirc , Joan did not sell her jewelry and most of it was auctioned after her death.

She hung on to dear life to her belongings, but let staff go and closed off most of her home in Ca.   She did have fans working for free.

I watched it this afternoon, and laughed when she said that if fans were going to hang around, they may as well make themselves useful. 

[auntjess]

On ‎3‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 10:21 AM, merylinkid said:

Btw, what is up with Bette always calling Joan "LUcille?"   Is that her real name?   Too lazy to go IMDB it.

She was born Lucille LeSueur, which I think sounds like a stage name for a stripper.
A few of her films used that name.

[txhorns79]

Quote

To me she is  the first rags to superstardom story in Hollywood.

I always think of Clara Bow, but I think a number of stars had similar childhoods to Joan Crawford. 

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So far, for me, Susan Sarrandon is stealing the show, voice accuracy or not. I always love Jessica Lange, but I see Jessica Lange, not Joan Crawford.  

 

 

That's interesting.  I see Lange as at least making some effort to resemble Joan, while Susan just looks like herself.  That isn't to say they aren't both doing well in the parts, just that if Susan wasn't in the period costumes, I wouldn't have any idea she was supposed to be playing Bette Davis. 

[theatremouse]

On 3/6/2017 at 7:21 AM, merylinkid said:

Btw, what is up with Bette always calling Joan "LUcille?"   Is that her real name?   Too lazy to go IMDB it.

I might be wrong but I'm pretty sure Catherine Zeta-Jones mentioned Crawford's original name in one of the early scenes. That's the only reason I wasn't confused when Sarandon kept calling her that, because one of the interviewey bits had mentioned it earlier. I know I didn't know the name Lucille LeSueur on my own.

6 hours ago, PrincessSteel said:

I know that not everyone saw Mommie Dearest, but parts of setting up JC's character seemed lifted directly from that movie, which seems lazy coming from Ryan Murphy.

I'm not sure exactly which bits you mean, but since that was based on her life, I think to a certain extent, if the parts in question were true to life and well-known, it might have seemed necessary to include it, or perhaps, unncessary to avoid it just because it's also touched on in the film? I'm just hypothesizing though.