S01.E01: Doll 123/ S01.E02: Ladies In Waiting

[jumper sage]

11 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I, at least, admire the fact that

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Victoria seems to have  tried with her children, at a time when most aristocrats delegated the entire job to the hired help.

 

{nods in agreement}  

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We do know that the Kaiser, her grandson, loved her deeply and she took a special interest in him.  

There is a book George, Nicholas and Wilhelm: Royal Cousins - excellent read!

Edited January 18, 2017 by SilverStormm
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[gator12]

11 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

From the documentary,

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"Victoria and Albert had terrible rows.  Think of the worst row you ever had and magnify it." 

I always take the pedantic statements of British historians with a grain of salt.  

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The woman may sound like she was  right there at the time, but she probably only read a few mentions of arguments in  letters from the period.  Almost all children were raised strictly at the time and these children, being the product of first cousins might have had all sorts of unrecognized special needs that Victoria would have been unaware of.  I, at least, admire the fact that Victoria seems to have  tried with her children, at a time when most aristocrats delegated the entire job to the hired help.

 

I don't know if I would

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gave her credit for trying if she was emotionally abusive. 

Edited January 18, 2017 by SilverStormm
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[JudyObscure]

10 hours ago, gator12 said:

I don't know if I would

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gave her credit for trying if she was emotionally abusive. 

 

I think intention counts.

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What we call emotionally abusive, Victoria probably called lenient compared with her own childhood where she was not allowed friends or outings

. A hundred years from now we may be called abusive for forcing children as young as six years old to sit quietly at desks for six to seven hours a day, being forced to learn such obsolete subjects as geography.  Already most schools have decided that forcing children to learn to hold a pencil a certain way and write cursive is cruel and unusual punishment.

Edited January 18, 2017 by SilverStormm
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[vibeology]

11 hours ago, jumper sage said:

{nods in agreement}  

Spoiler

We do know that the Kaiser, her grandson, loved her deeply and she took a special interest in him.

 There is a book George, Nicholas and Wilhelm: Royal Cousins - excellent read!

Spoiler

I always got the sense that she had stronger relationships with her grandchildren than her children. She had horrible parental figures herself so it's not surprising that she struggled with motherhood. Add to it the sense she had when she came to the throne that she was unprepared and you can see why she pushed her children (and sons especially) to be better in their studies, to be useful etc. She was trying but the abuse she suffered under the Kensington system had ripples outwards that impacted her children.

As for this episode, I love Victoria and her Lord M. I think we got a very good sense why Victoria latched onto him so deeply. She's alone. She has no real family. She has a mother who wants to use her to gain control of the throne, an uncle who hopes to do the same. She has no siblings she can count on for company. And then this smart man comes into her life and he treats her like an adult and is there for her to talk to and share her life. Of course she wants to keep him around. The same goes with her ladies; while that was primarily motivated to keep Lord M., at the same time those were her very first friends in her entire life. To have to send one or two of them away for political reasons is too much to ask a young woman. (

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Albert is going to have to be pretty special to outmatch Lord M)

Poor Flora Hastings. She was too familiar with Victoria and too willing to correct her so Victoria was already biased against her. Add to that the fact that taking down Flora would take down Conroy and it's easy to see how Victoria got swept up in the opportunity and made such a huge mistake. I did like that we got to see Victoria humble herself to Flora at the end and suffer consequences for her mistake. It's awful what Flora had to go through, both the scandal and the illness. She would have known that something was wrong but probably had no idea until the examination just what but of course little good that did since knowing it was a tumor didn't change the outcome.

Edited January 18, 2017 by SilverStormm
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[gator12]

Do you know if Victoria humble herself and apologize to Flora in real life?

I've never heard of Lady Flora Hastings until this episode.

12 minutes ago, vibeology said:

I did like that we got to see Victoria humble herself to Flora at the end and suffer consequences for her mistake.

[attica]

11 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Spoiler

I, at least, admire the fact that Victoria seems to have  tried with her children, at a time when most aristocrats delegated the entire job to the hired help.

 

I'm going to recommend two books:

Spoiler

Queen Vic's Mysterious Daughter and The Heir Apparent. The first is a bio of Princess Louise, the second about Edward VII.

Spoiler

Both are extremely good at looking at how Vic was as a mother. The first in particular uses Victoria's own diaries (at least as edited by her daughter Beatrice, which was a significant cut/rewrite job indeed) and letters as research material. No kidding, Victoria really didn't like her kids. She loved Albert, and her kids were just reminders to her that Albert was dead. Now, we can imagine she was bad at mothering because she had no good example to model after, or because of royal pressures and aristocratic norms, but the personal disdain which she felt for her children as individuals is still kind of a shock. (I loved the book on Louise: so dishy!)

I know Sewell is wrong casting for Melbourne, but damn if he doesn't put the Lord! Mmmm! in Lord M. 

Edited January 18, 2017 by SilverStormm
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[gator12]

8 hours ago, attica said:

I'm going to recommend two books:

Spoiler

Queen Vic's Mysterious Daughter and The Heir Apparent. The first is a bio of Princess Louise, the second about Edward VII. Both are extremely good at looking at how Vic was as a mother. The first in particular uses Victoria's own diaries (at least as edited by her daughter Beatrice, which was a significant cut/rewrite job indeed) and letters as research material. No kidding, Victoria really didn't like her kids. She loved Albert, and her kids were just reminders to her that Albert was dead. Now, we can imagine she was bad at mothering because she had no good example to model after, or because of royal pressures and aristocratic norms, but the personal disdain which she felt for her children as individuals is still kind of a shock. (I loved the book on Louise: so dishy!)

I know Sewell is wrong casting for Melbourne, but damn if he doesn't put the Lord! Mmmm! in Lord M. 

Thanks,  I will put these books on my list.

Spoiler

Also in terms of the mothering, from what I've read most of the parenting was left to Albert.

Edited January 18, 2017 by SilverStormm
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[PJ123]

22 hours ago, Dirtybubble said:

I enjoyed the first episode as well.  My only real gripe is the downstairs/servants storyline.  I like the head of household Lehenz but I find myself comparing everyone else to downtown abbey and nobody can hold a candle to Carson & Ms. Hughes!  I don't know I just feel like there is enough story in the royals; the servants feel shoe horned in.  

Totally agree.  Shades of Mr. Selfridge too - the young dresser and the chef in particular.  I'm almost at the point to fast forward through the "staff" parts.  This is where The Crown is far superior - it stuck to "upstairs".  Victoria ruled a long time - surely there are tons of things that happened to her that could be dramatized?  They have fast tracked some of her story already (coronation done a year after she took the throne, Lady Flora died soon after coronation, Lord M resigns 2 years into her reign, etc.).  

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Rufus Sewell is hot but I would have preferred the more historically accurate father-daughter relationship.  I think that would have helped emphasize Victoria's horrible childhood and why she behaves the way she does (even with her own children later).

Edited January 18, 2017 by SilverStormm
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[jumper sage]

8 hours ago, attica said:

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No kidding, Victoria really didn't like her kids. She loved Albert, and her kids were just reminders to her that Albert was dead.

 

Spoiler

She blamed her eldest son Bertie (Edward VII):

Quote

Spoiler

On 16 March 1861, Queen Victoria’s mother died of cancer. For a whole month she became a recluse – refusing to see her husband or children, eating alone, and poring over her childhood mementoes saved by her mother. Burdened by his wife’s instability, overworked and overwrought, Albert became plump and lost more of his hair to the point of wearing a wig. His mood was not helped by the shenanigans and indiscretions of his eldest son, Bertie, the future Edward VII, which, he felt, threatened to make a nonsense of the monarchy. On 24 November, in the pouring rain, Albert paid a visit to his wayward son in Cambridge. The visit brought a degree of rapprochement between the two, but Albert caught a dreadful chill. The queen later blamed her son for Albert’s illness – ‘That boy…I never can, or ever shall look at him without a shudder.’

 

Edited January 18, 2017 by SilverStormm
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[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Should You Crown Victoria Your Queen?

Jenna Coleman is done being a companion. Is she ready to rule?

[kassa]

Spoiler

 

She was famously controlling and competitive, ordering her daughters not to breastfeed, calling them cows when they did, making herself Empress of India so her daughter who married an Emperor would not outrank her, etc.

There's a series that airs on PBS every once in a while about her children and how each moved into the world and changed it (or didn't).  

 

Edited January 18, 2017 by SilverStormm
Tag added

[Meredith Quill]

Mod Note:

If you want to discuss aspects of Victoria's life beyond the scope of this (or any other) episode please use the 'History Talk: The Victorian Era' topic from now on.

I've been through the whole topic and spoiler tagged anything that could be classed as info/spoilery from outside of this episode, if I missed anything feel free to let me know.

Thanks!

[snarktini]

I have a question, hoping those of you with historic knowledge can help me out.

Melbourne is the Prime Minister (right?). In this episode he offered to become Victoria's "private secretary". Which seems...strange. And like a step down or a conflict of interest, or something! Especially considering all the hand-wringing later about impartiality towards the parties. How would that work? Was PM in this time not as full-time or powerful as it would be today? 

I get the idea of a close relationship between Queen and PM one of mentorship and advice, a la Elizabeth II and Churchill. This just seems like a lot more than that.

Edited January 18, 2017 by snarktini

[LiveenLetLive]

12 hours ago, attica said:

I'm going to recommend two books:

  Reveal hidden contents

Queen Vic's Mysterious Daughter and The Heir Apparent. The first is a bio of Princess Louise, the second about Edward VII.

  Reveal hidden contents

Both are extremely good at looking at how Vic was as a mother. The first in particular uses Victoria's own diaries (at least as edited by her daughter Beatrice, which was a significant cut/rewrite job indeed) and letters as research material. No kidding, Victoria really didn't like her kids. She loved Albert, and her kids were just reminders to her that Albert was dead. Now, we can imagine she was bad at mothering because she had no good example to model after, or because of royal pressures and aristocratic norms, but the personal disdain which she felt for her children as individuals is still kind of a shock. (I loved the book on Louise: so dishy!)

I know Sewell is wrong casting for Melbourne, but damn if he doesn't put the Lord! Mmmm! in Lord M. 

Spoiler

I wish though that they hadn't gone romantic with the casting--I understand that unrequited love is more interesting than the yearning of a young girl for a father that she never had.

Edited January 18, 2017 by SilverStormm

[LittleIggy]

On 1/16/2017 at 4:35 PM, BooksRule said:

 

I've only seen Rufus Sewell in a couple of things (I mainly remember him from the short-lived 'The Eleventh Hour' series), but whenever I see him I'm reminded of actor David Selby ('Dark Shadows') in his younger days.  

I've seen RS in just about everything I can get my hands on. It's essential that you see him in "Middlemarch." OMG, he is about 25 years old then and drop dead gorgeous.

[Brn2bwild]

17 hours ago, attica said:

I'm going to recommend two books:

  Hide contents

Queen Vic's Mysterious Daughter and The Heir Apparent. The first is a bio of Princess Louise, the second about Edward VII.

  Hide contents

Both are extremely good at looking at how Vic was as a mother. The first in particular uses Victoria's own diaries (at least as edited by her daughter Beatrice, which was a significant cut/rewrite job indeed) and letters as research material. No kidding, Victoria really didn't like her kids. She loved Albert, and her kids were just reminders to her that Albert was dead. Now, we can imagine she was bad at mothering because she had no good example to model after, or because of royal pressures and aristocratic norms, but the personal disdain which she felt for her children as individuals is still kind of a shock. (I loved the book on Louise: so dishy!)

I know Sewell is wrong casting for Melbourne, but damn if he doesn't put the Lord! Mmmm! in Lord M. 

Spoiler

I think Victoria disliked her children when they were children.  When they were older, she had a better relationship with at least some of them.

Edited January 18, 2017 by SilverStormm
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[justmehere]

Another Rufus Sewell recommendation: Dangerous Beauty. Very romantic.

[Meredith Quill]

Mod Note:

I'm still spoiler tagging stuff in here despite the mod note only a few posts above. Further posts that contain info from outside the episode will be removed.

If you are only commenting on Rufus Sewell's hotness and/or where else you've seen him, please head over to the cast topic to discuss or recommend.

Thank you.

[TaurusRose]

On 1/16/2017 at 11:48 AM, Constantinople said:

Victoria was horrible to Lady Flora.

Yes, Victoria was insufferable in her treatment of Lady Flora.  Her behavior showed the damning traits of youth: rashness and the inability to take advice from anyone.  

On 1/16/2017 at 4:26 PM, ProudMary said:

It was a gyn exam specifically to determine if her hymen was intact, i.e. a virginity test.  When Victoria was told that Lady Flora had not been "deflowered" she still asked whether or not she was with child and Lord M told her that was not possible, that one precludes the other.  It made me wonder if Lady Flora was similarly ignorant of how pregnancy occurs and might have thought she was pregnant even though she had never been with a man.  
It really makes you feel for these poor women of the 19th century.  

I find this really hard to believe.   Women in the 19th century were not that ignorant. Women had been giving birth forever, I'm pretty sure they had worked out the basics by then.  However, Victoria herself probably was.  She was rigidly controlled in every aspect of her life including her education.  

On 1/16/2017 at 7:04 PM, Mumbles said:

In Victoria, I chalked it up to the doctor using the term "Virgo intacta" and Victoria not knowing the Latin. But she seemed very well educated and probably educated in Latin,  so maybe she was just naive about sex.

I find it highly probable that Victoria's exposure to Latin was very limited; indeed, if she had any at all.  

On 1/16/2017 at 7:48 PM, Atlanta said:

When I see Nell Hudson, I keep thinking of Laoghaire from "Outlander." :D She's a much more sympathetic character here,...

Agreed and so far. 

My Victoria exposure is pretty much limited to Young Victoria, which I enjoyed immensely, along with supplements from Wikipedia.  I can understand why Victoria was drawn to Melbourne given her upbringing and lack of friends; however, I'm taking the emphasis on their relationship in the series with a grain of salt.  From everything I've read Victoria loved Albert deeply, so I can't waste energy shipping something that will never happen because it has no basis in fact.  At the moment, I'm not sure how I feel about Jenna Coleman.  I've never seen her in anything before and while I wasn't overly impressed with her in this first episode, I'm willing to give her a chance to win me over as Victoria.  I will say a lot of the men surrounding her seemed to be in a constant state of constipation if their expressions are anything to go by.  I don't like Lehzen at all and can't wait to see the back of her.  I'm liking Rufus Sewell as Melbourne, though I disagree that he isn't aging in favor of he's aging very well.  I hope the casting of Albert works, and that there is chemistry between Tom Hughes and Jenna Coleman because their relationship as Victoria and Albert is so important. Right now, I think the casting for a lot of the supporting cast is a little shaky.  I am looking at Lehzen, the Duchess of Kent, Sir Robert Peel, the Duke of Cumberland and Flora Hastings to name a few.  I'm hoping that Victoria works as well as The Crown, but I have to tell you that I was totally unimpressed by Victoria's coronation crown.  I mean all I could think was tacky with a capital T.    

Edited January 19, 2017 by taurusrose

[Mumbles]

Quote

 I find it highly probable that Victoria's exposure to Latin was very limited; indeed, if she had any at all.  

She referred to reading Blackstone's commentaries to her tutor/nanny. Not Latin, admittedly, but fairly dense and sophisticated legal commentary (with a fair share of Latin terms), indicating a pretty rigorous education.

Edited January 19, 2017 by Mumbles

[orza]

Latin was part of classical education. Victoria studied Latin, along with French,  as we heard, and other languages.

[kieyra]

I watched this series when it aired in the U.K. (Or, er, got ahold of it somehow.) I'm more of an Elizabethan nerd, but this show managed to suck me in pretty well, to the point of a Wikipedia deep dive. I enjoy the little pieces of historical context people are giving, and I hope they will be allowed to go on, assuming they don't derail episode threads too badly. 

Unfortunately The Crown was wasted on me, even though I did love that actress as Anne Boleyn in Wolf Hall. She certainly does "queenly" well. 

[TaurusRose]

On 1/18/2017 at 2:33 AM, justmehere said:

Another Rufus Sewell recommendation: Dangerous Beauty. Very romantic.

I loved that movie.  

[Driad]

Someone said that Victoria was not an appropriate name for a queen, and suggested Elizabeth or Anne instead. Was that just because there had not been a queen named Victoria before?

Watching costume dramas I always feel sorry for the women with bare necks and shoulders in those cold buildings, while the men wear wool jackets. Maybe the women put on warm shawls when we are not looking.

[Constantinople]

48 minutes ago, Driad said:

Someone said that Victoria was not an appropriate name for a queen, and suggested Elizabeth or Anne instead. Was that just because there had not been a queen named Victoria before?

Victoria's mother was also named Victoria.  Perhaps the name was thought too German.

[kwnyc]

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Yes, Victoria was insufferable in her treatment of Lady Flora. 

Well, up until she actually became Queen, wasn't she actually surrounded by people selected by her mother & Sir John? She'd long since realized these people were not her friends, and their function was to keep an eye on her. She didn't have reason OR example to trust anyone in that circle or treat them well. She did apologize, though. (Now I have to read a biography or two...I'm interested in why the king didn't have more of a hand in the upbringing of his heir presumptive.)

[blackwing]

I enjoyed the first episode for the most part, although I truly cannot stand the simpering manservant of Victoria's mother.  Why is Victoria tolerating him?  When she was just the heir presumptive and in a state of minority I can understand why she had to have her mother and this man around all the time.  But now she is 18 and queen.  We saw her turning down his advice multiple times, but why doesn't she just tell him that she doesn't want advice from him ever again?  Why doesn't she just ban him from the palace?  It's obvious that he just wants to make Victoria's mother regent so he can acquire more power for himself.  And what exactly is his place anyways?  I thought he was the private secretary to the Duchess of York.  It's not like he would become regent himself.

Her mother is also awful.  She clearly is also power hungry.  Why doesn't she just forbid her mother from giving her advice?

As far as the regency that they propose, how exactly would that work after the fact?  Victoria has already reached the age of majority.  How are the mother and this man proposing to effect it?  Would they just go to Parliament and get Parliament to agree to it?  Would the queen be bound by any hypothetical resolution?

I really couldn't give a rat's ass about the Italian cook and the queen's maid that sold her gloves and does her hair.  It does seem like the show was trying way too hard to inject some kind of forbidden downstairs romance because they think that there has to be this "Downton Abbey" element to their show.  I'd much rather only see Victoria and the people around Victoria in relation to Victoria.  I have zero interest in seeing if the Italian cook dips his beeswax candle into the house honey.

[kieyra]

It's been a few months since I saw S1, but I remember being okay with the upstairs/downstairs stuff. Didn't leave a major impression but I liked a different view of the typical period monarchy. Although took me a while to realize I was looking at Gwen from Torchwood. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

On 1/17/2017 at 6:15 AM, pasdetrois said:

One of my all-time favorite movies is Mrs. Brown.

Oh, yesssssss! I LOVED that movie.  It was such a beautiful movie. Loved John Brown's utter devotion to her.

[blackwing]

That was a fantastic movie.  Judi Dench was robbed.  She so deserved that Oscar but instead it went to Helen friggin Hunt.  One consolation is that Helen's career has basically tanked ever since that movie, and I do think she has become something of a punchline.  Dench losing that award in 1997 is widely believed to have resulted in her winning Best Supporting Actress for what was basically a glorified 8 minute cameo in Shakespeare in Love.

Thinking of Judi Dench has made me wonder about this series and its future plans.  I know that "The Crown" was already announced to be 6 seasons, with each season representing one decade of the Queen's reign, and that they would change actors every two seasons to avoid having to use old age makeup.  What are the plans for "Victoria"?  Have they announced how long they want this series to go, whether it only will be early Victoria, or if it goes until old Victoria, will they change actors or just keep the same one with old age makeup and prosthetics?

[Quilt Fairy]

  I loved Young Victoria, so I was really looking forward to this, but I didn't like the first episode at all.  I thought it really dragged and it took me a couple of days to get through the whole thing.  With the exception of Rufus Sewell, I didn't care for any of the cast, either.  I hope it picks up when Albert comes on the scene.

[LaChavalina]

On January 16, 2017 at 7:36 PM, elle said:

I wondered why Lady Flora did not tell Victoria she was sick, but as it was pointed out, she may have not known herself.  It was a sad business all around.

Lady Flora's own physician was there for the examination, so one presumes she must not have realized she was ill. If her own physician had already known about the tumor, the whole thing could have just been put to rest. It is very sad, but given the situation it seemed reasonable that there would be rumors of pregnancy. Occam's razor and all.

Quote

I do wonder how much of the all the downstairs drama is true.  I can believe that many things were sold to the pickers, but the mustache twirling is making me raise an eyebrow.  The whole rats in the house is playing out strangely.  I don't see how those rats made it onto the cake without anyone noticing!  It would seem that "Dash" would certainly be raising the alarm whenever one would be in the room. 

I feel the same about the "mustache twirling." That old guy is no Thomas Barrow, and it strained credulity (to me) that the Baroness would put him in charge of dealing with the rat infestation, when she already had ample evidence that he was shifty and wasteful.

[TaurusRose]

On 1/20/2017 at 0:46 PM, blackwing said:

I really couldn't give a rat's ass about the Italian cook and the queen's maid that sold her gloves and does her hair.  It does seem like the show was trying way too hard to inject some kind of forbidden downstairs romance because they think that there has to be this "Downton Abbey" element to their show.  I'd much rather only see Victoria and the people around Victoria in relation to Victoria.  I have zero interest in seeing if the Italian cook dips his beeswax candle into the house honey.

This.

[humbleopinion]

Drinking game...every time Victoria mentions her small size, height, feet not touching the floor take a shotsky...

We are being forcefully Downton'ed but not going fall for it.

We don't care about the power struggle between Penge, the household steward selling candles and Lehzen.

Did any one catch Ann Bates' (Joanne Frogatt)tease for her role as  Dark Angel, a Victorian serial killer named Mary Anne Cotton?

To be shown in US later in 2017.

Hope Lord Grantham or John Bates  are among her victims.

[PRgal]

Re Italian cook:  I think he has a bit of an attitude problem.  I'm not sure if he's based on someone real or not, but if he were around today, he could probably rival Gordon Ramsay. *runs and ducks*

[Arynm]

Dash the dog is the cutest ever! I have a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel, 2 actually, and they are the sweetest, most even-tempered dogs ever. Their job is to sit on your lap and give love.

They were actually breed as carriage dogs to keep you warm and keep the fleas off, and if I ever find myself in a carriage, my dogs will do their duty admirably.

I hope I hear her say "we are not amused" very soon

[smartymarty]

Quote

As far as the regency that they propose, how exactly would that work after the fact?  Victoria has already reached the age of majority.  How are the mother and this man proposing to effect it?

A regent is appointed if the monarch is a minor, but also if the monarch is incompetent (in the mentally unstable sense) or absent. Someone was suggesting that Victoria's fear of the rats was too extreme and could be used to suggest she was incompetent. But that was shot down pretty quickly.

[vibeology]

5 minutes ago, smartymarty said:

A regent is appointed if the monarch is a minor, but also if the monarch is incompetent (in the mentally unstable sense) or absent. Someone was suggesting that Victoria's fear of the rats was too extreme and could be used to suggest she was incompetent. But that was shot down pretty quickly.

With Victoria there was always her grandfather's history looming over her. George III was famously ill though people still argue about what was actually wrong with him. A Regency was needed for him and his son acted as Prince Regent for years until George III died and George IV became king. If Victoria was ill in a similar way, another Regency Act could have been passed by Parliament appointing a Regent for Victoria. (Most likely her mother based on a previous act put in place while Victoria was a minor in case a Regency had been necessary then.)

[Arwen Evenstar]

12 minutes ago, vibeology said:

With Victoria there was always her grandfather's history looming over her. George III was famously ill though people still argue about what was actually wrong with him. A Regency was needed for him and his son acted as Prince Regent for years until George III died and George IV became king. If Victoria was ill in a similar way, another Regency Act could have been passed by Parliament appointing a Regent for Victoria. (Most likely her mother based on a previous act put in place while Victoria was a minor in case a Regency had been necessary then.)

Much was made of King George's madness.  He suffered from porphyria, which was an excruciating condition which would have driven anyone mad. But back then, they didn't have much medical knowledge to treat him and were only just beginning to understand the consequences of inbreeding.

But still, using her grandfather's illness was a cruel way to gaslight the young queen.

[vibeology]

2 minutes ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

Much was made of King George's madness.  He suffered from porphyria, which was an excruciating condition which would have driven anyone mad. But back then, they didn't have much medical knowledge to treat him and were only just beginning to understand the consequences of inbreeding.

But still, using her grandfather's illness was a cruel way to gaslight the young queen.

It's the leading suspect but not every academic agrees on that front. His blue urine could have been caused by medicines he was recorded to have taken and people who have analyzed his letters think changes in his writing style might suggest an actual mental illness.

Either way, I agree that using that fear of madness against Victoria was awful. I do think the writing did a good job setting up that plot. We see enough of her to be confident in her health, but Victoria had been so isolated her whole life and the people who should be closest to her (mother, Conroy and her Uncle) were the ones fanning the flames. Add to it a very reasonable response to rat-cake (because you bet your ass I'd scream and run if a cake was suddenly infested with rats in the two seconds I had turned around) which if not for her family history would have been easily written off and you can see how an outsider in Parliament might wonder without having to lie to the audience or make Victoria seem dumb or strange.

[Quilt Fairy]

This episode brought back one of my all-time "hates".  I have long thought that the "braid on the side that loops below the ear" is one of the ugliest hairstyles ever in the history of hair.  Even Princess Leia's ear-buns looked better. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

Oh, I think the hairstyles some of the ladies at court were sporting were absolutely horrid.  Victoria's mother's reminiscent of Cindy Brady without the pigtails and looks ridiculous on a woman her age....and those dreadful ringlets on those huge topknots 

[PRgal]

23 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

Drinking game...every time Victoria mentions her small size, height, feet not touching the floor take a shotsky...

 

LOL!  They make Victoria sound like she had body image issues (though I have to admit that I have the same kind of size issues.  I'm taller than HRH's reported height though (they said Victoria was 4'11" or so.  I'm around 5'2", same as Jenna Coleman's listed height).

[JanD]

Another movie to see a young Sewell is Cold Comfort Farm. 

[Haleth]

I was unaware of this production but watched the first two hours last night and really enjoyed it.  It appealed to my love for historical dramas and filled the void of no more Downton.  Thanks to the posters for book recommendations.  I think a little research will be next on my to read list.  How many episodes will this be?

Rufus Sewell was the mustache twirling villain in The Illusionist, but dayum, he looked fine as a prince.  He was also the good guy in Pillars of the Earth.  Love seeing him again as the dashing Lord M.

Spoiler

, even if his role is not historically accurate.

[Leia1979]

I finally got to see this after hearing about it from a docent at Kensington Palace last summer. It was nice seeing some of the little details I learned about the Kensington System worked into the story, like Victoria not being allowed to go up and down the stairs by herself or having to share a room with her mother. Given that upbringing, it's no wonder she's now prone to rebelling against her mother and Conroy as well as acting a bit like a bratty teen at times.

And I was a little weirded out by Jenna Coleman's blue contacts.

[benteen]

I finally got a chance to watch Victoria and I really enjoyed it.  I do love me a good British television show.

Although I wasn't a fan of her character, I've always liked Jenna Coleman since Doctor Who and think she's terrific as Victoria.  I've been a fan of Rufus Sewall for a long time.  He's absolutely terrific as Lord M and has an excellent chemistry with JC.  I don't think I've seen Rufus Sewell in an contemporary movie or TV show.  The closest I've seen is The Man in the High Castle and that takes place in an alternate 1962.  As for him aging, I've noticed he's aged under this eyes (this is particularly noticeable in High Castle) but otherwise, looks exactly the same.  He also has a voice that reminds me a lot of Christopher Walken (most in High Castle though).

Very good cast although I'm really not that interested in the servants storyline.  I'm legitimately surprised that the maid isn't Hannah Murray (Gilly on Game of Thrones).  She looks just like her.

Also, the CGI depictions of various buildings and cities isn't that strong.  It looks like CGI you would have seen 15 years ago.

Minor complaints aside, I've very much enjoyed the first three hours of this show.

[iMonrey]

Just now catching up with this show. Wasn't really sold on Jenna Coleman at first, but by the end of the first two hours I thought she really sold "immature 18-year old" pretty well. 

It feels like the story of Victoria and Albert has already been told so many times there's really nothing left to tell. The Young Victoria was pretty recent - and I think it might have served this series to have started a bit earlier in Victoria's life, like The Young Victoria did. We weren't given enough context about her mother, John Conroy, the Kensington system, etc. 

[Cherry Cola]

On 1/17/2017 at 0:02 PM, Tara Ariano said:

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Should You Crown Victoria Your Queen?

Jenna Coleman is done being a companion. Is she ready to rule?

The actress here looks so much like Natalie Dormer.  It was kind of freaking me out! 

I am late to the party, but I really liked the first episode.  

[okerry]

On 1/29/2017 at 8:38 PM, benteen said:

Also, the CGI depictions of various buildings and cities isn't that strong.  It looks like CGI you would have seen 15 years ago.

Just wanted to mention that I noticed the CGI, too, and I rather enjoyed it. I was always a fan of the matte paintings on glass done for so many earlier movies, and this had much the same look - a little softer, a little older - that I thought fit here much better than a too-sharp, too-modern look to the artwork. Just an observation.