Joy and Austin: This One Time At Family Camp

[fonfereksglen]

2 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

I'm sorry that I hurt your feelings. I didn't intend to say anything at all critical about having pictures of the child or the situation.  I intended to say that I fully understand wanting pictures of the child. I don't really understand why anyone would want photos of themselves grieving, but I definitely take your point that, for some, that's probably equally important. Thanks for suggesting the idea that,  for some, pictures of the parents' grief itself may be equally important to cherish in the future.

The only thing I don't understand -- and that I specifically intended to ask about --is why someone would want the pictures of that private grief on social media when their social media has hundreds of thousands of followers and will be reposted all over the place for strangers to look at. I do understand why you might publish those pictures on a social-media page for friends only. 

That's the impulse I don't understand. The impulse to publish the parental grief to be consumed by hundreds of thousands of strangers. I apologize for putting it in a way that hurt you and I am very sorry for your loss. 

I suspect some of your questions come from your oppressive upbringing.  In our household, nothing remained private if my mother knew about it.  She used every bit of knowlege as social currency to demean, gossip about and control us.  This resulted in my never sharing anything with anyone.  It was an extreme form of self protection. 

So, I have a similar problem understanding the oversharing of every moment. However, that does not mean I lack empathy, just because I haven't experienced a certain event. 

[Minivanessa]

11 minutes ago, leighdear said:

PEOPLE magazine already has the story, I'm sure they have the photos too.  

The story I saw in People wasn't an exclusive. It was all taken from - and attributed to - Joy's Instagram posts and other social media posts. I don't think People paid Joy and Austin a dime for any of it. AFAIK, when you see a story labeled as an "exclusive," that indicates the magazine gave some compensation for it (or it was part of some ongoing deal such as between TLC and People to publicize the show, etc.). This wasn't an exclusive. I suppose it's possible that People or US or some mag will think it worth their while to pay for a follow-up exclusive interview, assuming Joy and Austin are willing to do that.

ETA: @fonfereksglen, that's a helpful insight on how your early family life can affect how you share (and don't share) your feelings. I experienced some disruption in my family as a very young child, and I believe that even now influences some of my thoughts and behavior. 

Edited July 5, 2019 by Jeeves

[Ohiopirate02]

2 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

The story I saw in People wasn't an exclusive. It was all taken from - and attributed to - Joy's Instagram posts and other social media posts. I don't think People paid Joy and Austin a dime for any of it. AFAIK, when you see a story labeled as an "exclusive," that indicates the magazine gave some compensation for it (or it was part of some ongoing deal such as between TLC and People to publicize the show, etc.). This wasn't an exclusive. I suppose it's possible that People or US or some mag will think it worth their while to pay for a follow-up exclusive interview, assuming Joy and Austin are willing to do that.

I don't see People or US paying for a story when Joy and Carlin have already given out enough information for a story.  The "article" is just the "writer" quoting the family's instagram posts and using the pictures readily available.  I am using quotes here because this barely touches the definition of journalism and anyone working for People could just copy information from Instagram posts.  This is just click-bait.

[Zella]

@Jeeves and @fonfereksglen, I agree a lot of it is in one's upbringing. Mine made me quite secretive. People on online forums like this one know far more about me than my friends IRL. I've even had them complain that I know far more about them than they do me because I'm not forthcoming.

I think the Duggars, despite the oppressive nature of their religion, tend to be oversharers because they grew up in a house with no normal sense of propriety or boundaries. Things that normal families would not advertise--Mom and Dad dry humping at the mini golf course or Mom's ovulating!--combined with skewed overreactions that normal families would not rely on--your brother molested you, so now none of you can hug your opposite sex siblings--and being on TV for minute boring crap as well as major life moments to be shared with the viewing public and the rise of social media mean that their default is to share. 

[mynextmistake]

4 hours ago, Albanyguy said:

She wouldn't name her new baby "Annabell" as a "tribute" to Joy and Austin's baby (and to continue the "A" theme she started with Asa). Would she?

No, I think that would be too subtle. I expect her birth announcement will be a photo of her standing next to Annabell’s grave, clutching her baby with one hand and a balloon with the other, with the hashtags #angelbabies and #rainbowbaby. 

I wish I was joking, but I could actually see her doing this. 

[irisheyes]

While they’ve posted pictures of themselves, I have noticed there’s been no pics of the baby (except for the footprint pic), and no pics of any service they had. (And, I would guess they had a service of some sort.)  Hopefully, it’s because they are keeping it private and not because it’s about to be a VSE. I’m sure it’ll be mentioned, but I suspect that Austin, especially, will be opposed to making it a spectacle. 

[Natalie68]

20 hours ago, Tigregirl said:

Pickle has a FB post with a copy of Joy and Austin’s previous ultrasound video they had posted on Instagram.  She is asking if anybody with medical credentials can see any abnormalities in the images.  Just when I think Pickles can’t stoop any lower or be any meaner, she does this.  Pretty despicable.

Since both Joy and Austin have questioned their beliefs before, I wonder if this will bring back all those questions again, and perhaps spur them to go in a different direction.  Especially if they get any kind of implications from family or others that their sins caused this tragedy.  I also wonder if Meechelle has any idea how to sincerely comfort her grieving daughter - I can’t picture that at all.  My heart breaks for Joy and Austin and I hope they are able to have the time and space to grieve and heal - as best as one can heal after such a hard loss.

Now that you mentioned Meechelle, it dawns on me there was a pic with Jill, Carlin but no Meechelle.  I would think Joy would want the support of the mother of the year 🙄

[Scarlett45]

2 hours ago, sleepysuzy said:

The very stigma that pregnancy loss should be kept private could be the reason for making it public. It's an affirmation that her baby was real because her grief is real, and this resonates with others who have not seen their own grief and loss reflected in traditional and social media. 

So much this. I’m as far from the Duggars as you can get, but I do think that as far as we have come in our society there is so much shame and secrecy around miscarriage, still births and pregnancy loss that it hurts women emotionally and otherwise. 

Of course I am not demanding anyone share their experience if they don’t want to, but the idea that women aren’t supposed to tell people they are pregnant until it’s “safe” or talk about miscarriage at leaves a taint that they did something wrong or a miscarriage is “dirty” and should be hidden away. I think if more people were open about their experiences we could lessen the stigma and women wouldn’t feel like they had to hide. Now that doesn’t mean one should pull a Lauren and make everyone else’s pregnancy about THEIR miscarriage, but awareness is a good thing.

Our culture has come a long away in discussing adoption or infertility but not pregnancy loss which intrigues me. 

I have no problem with Joy and Austin and their social media presence on this issue. It’s their lives, and they wanted to put the pictures up. 

[Natalie68]

18 hours ago, Zella said:

I know this might be expecting too much, but I really hope she learned from the experience and didn't just get defensive.

I think at this point, getting Jill to recognize how tone deaf her stuff comes across is a lost cause. . . .

I think Siah is having to deal with Lauren tantrums right now.  I don't see her as the type to be so self reflective.  I see her bitching about people being meeeaaannn to her.  She lost a baby too yo!  Again, making it about her.  

Could Jill have a really low IQ?  Or some other stunting?  She doesn't have the normal human responses and boundaries it seems.  I actually feel this way about a few in their circle.

[BetyBee]

19 hours ago, Aunt Catfish said:

The hashtags and emoji things piss me off beyond my ability to describe the inappropriate nature of using those damn things in this circumstance!  Next is the use of "y'all" when addressing multiple people those who are not of the South.  I grew up in Kentucky so I am allowed to use this in my finest southern drawl.  This too is not called for in this situation.  There is probably not enough Preparation H in the universe to relieve the burning pain from the ass chewing Miss Jill is likely receiving online right now.  I say Burn Baby Burn Y'all!!!!!  

I agree 100%!  Y'all has a casual tone to it and she used it repeatedly.  To further de-personalize a message she should have delivered personally and privately, she added all those ridiculous hashtags.  I'd be super pissed if someone reduced the death of my child to hashtags.  Jill is an idiot.  

[GeeGolly]

19 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

Now that you mentioned Meechelle, it dawns on me there was a pic with Jill, Carlin but no Meechelle.  I would think Joy would want the support of the mother of the year 🙄

There's a picture of Joy holding Annabelle with Austin, Jill and Michelle.

Joy looks devastated, Austin looks to be in shock, Jill looks like she's examining the baby and I swear, although her mouth is not in the picture, I swear Michelle is smiling.

Edited July 5, 2019 by GeeGolly

[Natalie68]

16 hours ago, QuinnInND said:

In my case, the umbilical cord (which apparently was longer than most) got wrapped around her neck and strangled her. That was obvious when she was delivered. I don't know if they would have done an autopsy if the cause has been less obvious. They did take the placenta to examine for anything else. And as far as I know, found nothing.  

I felt terrible, because her movements slowed down in the 2 weeks before her due date. She had dropped and was head down and ready. But the reason she wasn't moving as much was because she was slowly being strangled. The if onlys kill me. If only we had been able to see what was going on. If only... Her heart rate was still within the normal range, and it's normal for the baby to move less as it gets closer to time. We thought I was just not noticing her moving. But she wasn't moving anymore. 

I think not knowing how she died in utero would have been better for me in some ways. Sometimes ignorance is bliss. 

I am so sorry.  Horrible.

[Natalie68]

17 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

There's a picture of Joy holding Annabelle with Austin, Jill and Michelle.

Joy looks devastated, Austin looks to be in shock, Jill looks like she's examining the baby and I swear, although her mouth is not in the picture, I swear Michelle is smiling.

Thank you.  I didn't see it.  But of course that weirdo Meechelle is smiling.  She probably has no idea where she is.

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, fonfereksglen said:

I suspect some of your questions come from your oppressive upbringing.  In our household, nothing remained private if my mother knew about it.  She used every bit of knowlege as social currency to demean, gossip about and control us.  This resulted in my never sharing anything with anyone.  It was an extreme form of self protection. 

So, I have a similar problem understanding the oversharing of every moment. However, that does not mean I lack empathy, just because I haven't experienced a certain event. 

Bingo. 😀

"Demean, gossip, embroider upon maliciously and control." 

Edited July 5, 2019 by Churchhoney

[MV713]

18 hours ago, Spencer Hastings said:

It’s great that Joy has Carlin for support but a traumatic situation like this is not a time for a photo shoot for the ‘gram. 

yes and they had her makeup and hair done.

[galaxychaser]

For once Jill doesn’t look like the joker with idiot smile on her face. 

Poor Joy and Austin just look devastated. 

And Michelle finally dragged her moty behind to the hospital.

[heckkitty]

3 hours ago, doodlebug said:

I think a static picture of an ultrasound done at 10 weeks is impossible to judge anything.  I have never seen a major anomaly diagnosed that early in 35+ years.  If one of the maternal fetal medicine specialists at my hospital could actually see such a thing, I have a feeling that the first thing they would do was tell the mother they were going to repeat the test in a few weeks once the baby had grown to get a better look.  I also suspect that a baby whose brain was so malformed that it was detectable on a 10 week scan would never have made it to 20 weeks.

At 10 weeks, they could've measured a nuchal translucency or done a free fetal DNA test.  Those only hint at chromosome problems, nothing else.  I cannot imagine any medical professional telling a parent to consider aborting based on a 10 week scan.   At the very most, they'd be repeating the test and would've ended up doing an anatomy scan at 18-20 weeks and the baby would've died anyway.  

If Joy did know something, I suspect she didn't feel abortion was an option and I think many other women would feel exactly the same way.

Thank you. I went down that pickles rabbit hole too, and it was nuts.  Random people attempting to "diagnose" the baby with a zillion things because they thought the scan looked different from their own person pregnancy scans 🙄. I don't have the expertise you do, but I'm in a field that is peripheral to a clinical field, and even I know that it's damn unethical to claim to be able to tell anything based on random information that you come across in random ways. I was hoping you'd chime in on this.

ETA: They had a video, but still.  As you mentioned in an earlier post, never would a real professional "guess" on something like this.

Edited July 5, 2019 by heckkitty

[Snow Fairy]

Is it just the make up or what, but Joy looks unrecognizable to me in those pictures from the hospital

But they break my heart, no one should go through that experience

[galaxychaser]

Lauren comments: she is such a gift! Forever loved!

[galaxygirl76]

If I had something like this happening I would have wanted my mom. No question. Where is Meechelle? Is Gideon with his grandparents and that's why they are not there? Have we heard anything from them at all?

[galaxychaser]

2 minutes ago, galaxygirl76 said:

If I had something like this happening I would have wanted my mom. No question. Where is Meechelle? Is Gideon with his grandparents and that's why they are not there? Have we heard anything from them at all?

Michelle went to the hospital 

[Madtown]

3 hours ago, doodlebug said:

If those people were actual sonographers, they should be reported for their unprofessional behavior.  I work daily with sonographers who work with high risk pregnant patients.  None of them would be so quick to claim a baby had chromosomal abnormalities if they had actually done the scan, let alone third hand from the internet.  As far as the nuchal translucency, that has to be measured with calipers, eyeballing it and taking a guess is completely ridiculous.  In addition, not every baby with an increased NT has a chromosome problem.

And, as I've said before, it is not required that anyone have this testing anyway.  I doubt it would've changed Joy or Austin's mind about anything and stuff like Down syndrome doesn't run in families in the vast majority of cases so their future kids aren't at risk/

I thought the same exact thing as I was reading those comments. Yes, they claimed to be sonosgraphers. There was a comment from a lady who was pregnant and asked one of them if they would look at her ultrasound to make sure nothing was wrong. I could only shake my head.

1 hour ago, mynextmistake said:

No, I think that would be too subtle. I expect her birth announcement will be a photo of her standing next to Annabell’s grave, clutching her baby with one hand and a balloon with the other, with the hashtags #angelbabies and #rainbowbaby. 

I wish I was joking, but I could actually see her doing this. 

Ugh! I wish you were joking too, but with her, this is very possible..

[gonecrackers]

30 minutes ago, galaxychaser said:

For once Jill doesn’t look like the joker with idiot smile on her face. 

Poor Joy and Austin just look devastated. 

And Michelle finally dragged her moty behind to the hospital.

Nothing staged there; if they used it for click bait whatever I guess. But the pics are very touching & sweet. Maybe seeing them will help comfort someone else struggling with a devastating loss.

[mynextmistake]

13 minutes ago, galaxychaser said:

Lauren comments: she is such a gift! Forever loved!

Wow, someone really must have talked to her. You know it was killing her to not be able to add “just like Asa” to the end of that post. 

[Minivanessa]

1 minute ago, mynextmistake said:

Wow, someone really must have talked to her. You know it was killing her to not be able to add “just like Asa” to the end of that post. 

I think her first post did mention Asa. Then, presumably after some strong negative feedback from within her family (not to mention on IG), she deleted it and replaced it with that post, referring only to Annabell.

[galaxychaser]

I really hope that Joy takes time to grieve and not be pregnant by December. 

And goes to a real ob/gyn.

Edited July 5, 2019 by galaxychaser

[Lunera]

Deleted because I double posted.

 

These photos are very sad and I would have personally kept them private if it was me. I so believe they are being so public because it's part of their agenda, similar to why Kelly posted the pictures of the dead babies. 

Edited July 5, 2019 by Lunera

[Sew Sumi]

18 minutes ago, galaxychaser said:

Michelle went to the hospital 

Third picture, I think.

[beckie]

I hope this isn't offensive to anyone because I'm genuinely curious. Is it possible that she lost this pregnancy because she wasn't healed enough inside from her pregnancy with Gideon? I've never been pregnant, do not sure if that's possible or not, but I've been wondering since they said they miscarried. 

[ms.o]

I don’t share a ton on SM, but I did announce my mom’s death on Facebook. I didn’t want to have to repeat the words “she died” over and over. I was 7 months pregnant and and a hormonal ball of of emotions. Looking back, I probably wouldn’t have done that. However grief/trauma can impact your thought process (in some situations).

I can’t say what I would do if I was Joy. Maybe she felt it was easier to get it all out at once and that is her right. I would second guess the hell out of some of them for posting (LAUREN), but I can’t find it in my heart to judge Joy.  

[Lunera]

I don't think Kelly gets it. 

[MichaelaRae]

I think Kelly gets it fine. For many people, whether they grew up on TV or not, it can be very healing for many grieving parents to share photos of their stillborn child. They love that child and many of them want to do what they would do if their child had lived - share photos of their beloved child. Not having lost a child, it's not something I can personally understand, but I can empathize and apparently it's not terribly uncommon among grieving parents who don't have TV shows.

I think the person who told Joy what she should and shouldn't post on her own Instagram about her dead child was the one who doesn't get it. Just because it isn't the way THEY would grieve doesn't make it wrong.

Edited July 5, 2019 by MichaelaRae

[BetyBee]

Those hospital pics were heartbreaking.  I can't find any fault with their choosing to share them.  I'm glad Joy and Austin had that time together.  Holding the baby and grieving their loss together must be very healing.  

[heckkitty]

1 hour ago, Sew Sumi said:

Third picture, I think.

OMG, that is so sad. 

[Angeltoes]

Quote

I also wonder if Meechelle has any idea how to sincerely comfort her grieving daughter - I can’t picture that at all.

If this had happened to me, the first words out of my mother's mouth would have been (in a phony concerned voice),"Do they know what you did wrong?"

I'm not so sure Lauren wrote that sympathy post.  Most women don't use the phrase "best buds."  They tend to say besties or best friends.  Maybe Si wrote it, but she was probably standing right at his elbow.

If there was ever a doubt that Austin is emotionally tuned in to Joy, those pictures erase it.

And I cannot wait for the day when hashtags are considered to be passe.

Edited July 5, 2019 by Angeltoes

[Snow Fairy]

52 minutes ago, beckie said:

I hope this isn't offensive to anyone because I'm genuinely curious. Is it possible that she lost this pregnancy because she wasn't healed enough inside from her pregnancy with Gideon? I've never been pregnant, do not sure if that's possible or not, but I've been wondering since they said they miscarried. 

Highly doubt it. If it was some issue related to the uterus and previous c-section, she would have cramps/bleeding/something visible and she would know something is wrong.

This was different.

My friend lost a baby at week 16 due to infection. No symptoms at all, just no heartbeat at regular check up.

That's why I hope all Duggars learn from this and maybe start seing real doctors. Sometimes it can't be forseen, but sometimes medicine can help and protect the mother and the baby

[debbie311]

21 minutes ago, Snow Fairy said:

That's why I hope all Duggars learn from this and maybe start seing real doctors. Sometimes it can't be forseen, but sometimes medicine can help and protect the mother and the baby

Wait, so they DON'T ever see real doctors?  Wow.  Just midwives?  Yikes. I would think now after this experience, Joy's future pregnancies will be considered "high risk" and she would want and need to be under good obstetrical care.  I wonder if they are going to do some sort of tests on the baby to try to find out what went wrong.  I would be worried to death during the next pregnancy if I had no idea what happened. 

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, MichaelaRae said:

I think Kelly gets it fine. For many people, whether they grew up on TV or not, it can be very healing for many grieving parents to share photos of their stillborn child. They love that child and many of them want to do what they would do if their child had lived - share photos of their beloved child. Not having lost a child, it's not something I can personally understand, but I can empathize and apparently it's not terribly uncommon among grieving parents who don't have TV shows.

I think the person who told Joy what she should and shouldn't post on her own Instagram about her dead child was the one who doesn't get it. Just because it isn't the way THEY would grieve doesn't make it wrong.

I agree with you. 

Also I think our culture (mainstream North American culture- If there is such a thing) is very uncomfortable with death. We can barely handle it when it’s an elderly person who dies peacefully in their sleep, but the notion that young healthy women won’t always carry pregnancies to term, kids get sick and die, a sperm and egg meeting doesn’t mean that a healthy baby is guaranteed are notions that make people very uncomfortable. 

I also think for the “leg humpers” they don’t want to think such a thing could happen to “godly” people. Joy & Austin are both very young, in good health, god fearing married fundie Christians- these things aren’t supposed to happen if you follow the “rules”. Life doesn’t work that way. 

I do hope Joy does NOT blame herself for this and she can talk about her feelings openly with Austin. (If no one else- I doubt Michelle would be any real comfort). 

[JennyMominFL]

37 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I agree with you. 

Also I think our culture (mainstream North American culture- If there is such a thing) is very uncomfortable with death. We can barely handle it when it’s an elderly person who dies peacefully in their sleep, but the notion that young healthy women won’t always carry pregnancies to term, kids get sick and die, a sperm and egg meeting doesn’t mean that a healthy baby is guaranteed are notions that make people very uncomfortable. 

I also think for the “leg humpers” they don’t want to think such a thing could happen to “godly” people. Joy & Austin are both very young, in good health, god fearing married fundie Christians- these things aren’t supposed to happen if you follow the “rules”. Life doesn’t work that way. 

I do hope Joy does NOT blame herself for this and she can talk about her feelings openly with Austin. (If no one else- I doubt Michelle would be any real comfort). 

This is a story that I have now heard over and over. My daughter joined some pregnancy loss groups on facebook and most of the women, especially the ones with later losses, find that people just do not want to talk about it. This means that many women have no place to share their grief.  Even  within families it is hard to talk of. It was hard with my daughter. What on earth do you say to your child who  delivered and held her dead baby? If it was hard for me, it is hard for others..

   So we as a society bury this stuff, we dont talk about it. It almost seems like we are trying to shame the women who do talk about it. And whether you agree or not, social media is talk, and it can help keep some women from drowning in despair from feeling alone. I don't know of a single other women IRL who went through what my daughter did. I’m glad she was able to find a wider group of people. Im glad  that she found others who have shared experiences, or fjust people who were willing to listen to her pain.  Sorry if that doesnt meet some people’s standards of decency .

I mean really, how much genuine and healthy empathy do-we think Joy has access to in that family?

Edited July 5, 2019 by JennyMominFL

[Scarlett45]

1 minute ago, JennyMominFL said:

This is a story that I have now heard over and over. My daughter joined some pregnancy loss groups on facebook and most of the women, especially the ones with later losses, find that people just do not want to talk about it. This means that many women have no place to share their grief.  Even  within families it is hard to talk of. It was hard with my daughter. What on earth do you say to your child who  delivered and held her dead baby? If it was hard for me, it is hard for others..

   So we as a society bury this stuff, we dont talk about it. It almost seems like we are trying to shame the women who do talk about it. And whether you agree or not, social media is talk, and it can help keep some women from drowning in despair from feeling alone. I don't know of a single other women IRL who went through what my daughter did. I’m glad she was able to find a wider group of people. Im glad  that she found others who have shared experiences, or fjust people who were willing to listen to her pain.  Sorry if that doesnt meet some people’s standards of decency .

I mean really, how much genuine and healthy empath dowe think Joy has access to in that family?

Yup. Tons of women have miscarriages and stillbirths. I don’t say this to make light of their pain, but that it’s a part of the human experience. 70 years ago it was impolite to say some had “cancer”!! Could you imagine thinking it was impolite now? I would have to dig deeper into social trends to figure out why we are much more comfortable talking about infertility these days but not pregnancy loss. Maybe because there is money to be made in the assisted reproductive health sector ? 

May Joy find comfort where she can. There’s a big difference between seeking comfort and empathy vs being a fame whore like Lauren. 

[JennyMominFL]

4 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Yup. Tons of women have miscarriages and stillbirths. I don’t say this to make light of their pain, but that it’s a part of the human experience. 70 years ago it was impolite to say some had “cancer”!! Could you imagine thinking it was impolite now? I would have to dig deeper into social trends to figure out why we are much more comfortable talking about infertility these days but not pregnancy loss. Maybe because there is money to be made in the assisted reproductive health sector ? 

May Joy find comfort where she can. There’s a big difference between seeking comfort and empathy vs being a fame whore like Lauren. 

JFTR! I was agreeing and adding to what you said

[laurakaye]

7 hours ago, lascuba said:

I don't have a problem with taking or posting pictures, but I do find it weird that they pose for these sad pictures for memories and then immediately after Joy takes a smiling picture with Carlin. I know grief doesn't mean one is somber 100% of time but it's the performative sadness for the camera that's strange.

Does Joy know any other way?  I cannot begin to fathom what it's like to have to grow up one of a cluster of siblings, on camera, keeping sweet, with a molester for a revered oldest brother, a checked out mother, and an imbecile for a father.  I find all of the photos deeply personal and sad, and not for public consumption.  But does poor Joy even have a frame of reference in her young life for what is and is not to be shared?  She breaks my heart because she is so young and naive and while in the depths of sadness, she still feels the need to share this with the world.  I just don't think the world needs to see her pain, and I wish she didn't feel like she had to share it with thousands of strangers.  Just my two cents.

Edited July 5, 2019 by laurakaye

[JoanArc]

Quote

Wait, so they DON'T ever see real doctors?  Wow.  Just midwives?  

Jessa admitted to pretty much no prenatal care for one of her pregnancies, not even gestational diabetes testing.

[BigBingerBro]

Joy was very young when they joined the TLC gravy-train.  She is probably so used to sharing intimate moments with the world that is comes second nature.  Just look at how young she was at the beginning of it all:

Edited July 5, 2019 by BigBingerBro

[QuinnInND]

The pic of Joy and Austin with Annabelle. I lost it again. I hope Joy doesn't blame herself or think God is punishing her for something. With her upbringing, I could see her feeling that way.  I thought God was punishing me. It took a long time to get past that. It seems like Austin is being a supportive loving husband, which is what she needs. 

[Sofa Sloth]

Just now, laurakaye said:

Does Joy know any other way?  I cannot begin to fathom what it's like to have to grow up, one of a cluster of siblings, on camera, keeping sweet, with a molester for a revered oldest brother a checked out mother, and an imbecile for a father.  I find all of the photos deeply personal and sad, and not for public consumption.  But does poor Joy even have a frame of reference in her young life for what is and is not to be shared?  She breaks my heart because she is so young and naive and while in the depths of sadness, she still feels the need to share this with the world.  I just don't think the world needs to see her pain.  I wish she didn't feel like she had to share it with thousands of strangers.  Just my two cents.

Agree with all this. There’s a big difference between sharing such personal and poignant pictures with your friends and family, but this is so public. She is opening up and sharing her raw pain with the world here, and I’m left wondering does she want to, or does she just know no other way and feel she has too? Regardless it isn’t my business and whatever helps her heal is what’s important as long as she is getting to decide what that is. I’m such a private introvert it wouldn’t be my choice, but if I saw this picture on a friends feed, I’d think it was touching, beautiful and brave and commend them. 

[JennyMominFL]

13 minutes ago, Sofa Sloth said:

Agree with all this. There’s a big difference between sharing such personal and poignant pictures with your friends and family, but this is so public. She is opening up and sharing her raw pain with the world here, and I’m left wondering does she want to, or does she just know no other way and feel she has too? Regardless it isn’t my business and whatever helps her heal is what’s important as long as she is getting to decide what that is. I’m such a private introvert it wouldn’t be my choice, but if I saw this picture on a friends feed, I’d think it was touching, beautiful and brave and commend them. 

That is a good question. I would amend my precious post to say that the publix grieving is only helpful if she wants it. Im much like you. I would keep it to myself. Thats how i'm made. My daughter is the opposite

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, BigBingerBro said:

Joy was very young when they joined the TLC gravy-train.  She is probably so used to sharing intimate moments with the world that is comes second nature.  Just look at how young she was at the beginning of it all:

Which, to me, is part of oddness of sharing intimate pictures of delicate and difficult situations with Duggar and Bates social-media followings. 

Among Carlin's, Jill's, and Joy's Instagrams, they have 2.6 million followers (obviously some fewer because of overlap) So they've directly distributed these very sad and personal pictures to over 2 million random strangers who follow on social media young girls and women they've seen on television. 

Now, many of these are certainly perfectly nice and unobjectionable people. But they're also in no way your friends.  This isn't an Internet interest group or support group or a group of people you know or are connected to in any way. 

Anything they say to you that makes you feel good doesn't actually have any meaning in your life. They don't know you and you don't know them -- so there's no way to verify that anything they say is genuine, and nothing they say to you means there's any real connection between them or you. Nor can it be believed.

If you're depending on their response for anything real, you might as well depend on fairy dust. 

Plus, when you're talking about over 2 million random strangers who follow young women they've seen on television, I'd bet my house that the group includes many obsessive fans, fetishists, stalkers, catfish, thieves, grifters, con artists, pathological liars, and assorted more or less deranged people of every variety. 

For me, knowing this would make me extremely cautious about the kind of potentially enticing stuff I put up there.

So do Joy and the others realize the likely nature of the huge crowd they're communicating to?

If they do, I hope they have suitably low expectations of what their postings could offer them in the way of communication and support. But if they do have suitably low expectations for it, then I wonder, still, why they do it.

And the fact that they do do it makes me think that they probably expect some things from it that the random crowd of their followers is very unlikely to give them. 

Edited July 6, 2019 by Churchhoney

[Tabbygirl521]

9 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

I'm sorry that I hurt your feelings. I didn't intend to say anything at all critical about having pictures of the child or the situation.  I intended to say that I fully understand wanting pictures of the child. I don't really understand why anyone would want photos of themselves grieving, but I definitely take your point that, for some, that's probably equally important. Thanks for suggesting the idea that,  for some, pictures of the parents' grief itself may be equally important to cherish in the future.

The only thing I don't understand -- and that I specifically intended to ask about --is why someone would want the pictures of that private grief on social media when their social media has hundreds of thousands of followers and will be reposted all over the place for strangers to look at. I do understand why you might publish those pictures on a social-media page for friends only. 

That's the impulse I don't understand. The impulse to publish the parental grief to be consumed by hundreds of thousands of strangers. I apologize for putting it in a way that hurt you and I am very sorry for your loss. 

I’m thinking maybe Joy doesn’t really think of her Instagram followers or other fans as strangers? I can’t know, of course, but she was raised as someone who has a constant audience. Many of these people have sent her positive messages and feedback over the years, including love and good wishes during her pregnancies. So maybe she felt it was right to “include” them at this time. I dunno, I could kind of see this. 

I am so very sorry for her and Austin, and those of you here who have suffered similar losses. Completely heartbreaking. 

[ginger90]

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