S01.E10: Last Christmas

[bros402]

1. Sloan and Kevin are great.
2. I thought that Randall was hallucinating Jimmi Simpson
3. The reaction by Randall to finding out William was gay or bi was great (and how his kid put it)
4. I was thinking this would be William's last Christmas, but then I was like "That'd be too obvious... Toby isn't in this episode (He wasn't at the time!)... must be Dr. K, or someone we won't expect, like Miguel."

 

4 hours ago, LadyNebula said:

Am I the only one that became an armchair doctor when Toby collapsed?  Incidentally, my diagnosis is DVT.  He WAS sitting on a plane for 6 hours, after all.

From this armchair doctor, since they had just had sex, they would've noticed discoloration - I got the full suite of tests April 2015 for DVT and I got a whole bunch of fun tests and questions. You get a lot of questions when your feet are purple and swollen - especially when there is a slow (10+ second) capillary refill).

In case you were curious, you get even more questions when your feet aren't purple and swollen from a DVT and they find nothing on the scans that could be causing it.

[HeyThere83]

1 hour ago, Crs97 said:

If I saw a half-eaten box of cookies and one child was complaining of a stomach ache while the others were running around with no problems, I would assume achy child, no matter what his/her size is, ate too many cookies.  Sometimes mom-sense is just guesswork, but this show loves to have Rebecca be wrong.

Is no one else concerned that Randall literally had to talk a man off a ledge, and they just let him go?  I would not have assumed my chat worked so perfectly that I could let him go off on his own while I leave to celebrate Christmas.  

I guess it just fits with the theme of stuff being resolved just like that or happening off-screen and moving on to the next big twist or whatever it is. I find it frustrating, but I guess I need to accept it rather than wondering if the next episode will be different seeing as how we are already at mid-season.

I guess we will pick up with the Kate going at Rebecca when the show returns, and if Toby is dead that's one less thing to actually have to worry about writing. Quick fix and onto the next relationship, perhaps. I'm thinking he was really just a plot point.

[Spencer Hastings]

Okay, I wanted Toby off the show but I didn't want homeboy to die.  Oh well.  You win some, you lose some.

I was on the edge of my seat with Randall and the coworker.  Both actors were absolutely riveting. 

Watching William's reaction when the guy in the meeting started talking, I knew they were going there. I like how they didn't make it a big deal and how we uncover different pieces is these characters' lives.  William being gay (or maybe bi) is just another layer.

We should keep Sloane.  She's better than Olivia and Kevin had chemistry with someone who wasn't his sister.

[Luckylyn]

I'm really sick of Rebeca being the parent who screws up with the kids and being the parent the kids are angry at as adults and Jack being the great parent.   On one level I get that the kids would romanticize the parent who died and be more critical for the parent who is still around.    But the show seems to make a point to have Jack come off better in the flashbacks.  Kevin blames Rebeca for favoring Randall, Kate blames her for mishandling her weight as a child, and Rebeca's the one who unilaterally decided to keep Randall from William.  Of course the writers have Rebeca assume Kate's stomach ache is from too much cookies, and super parent Jack's the one who realizes it's more serious.   In general there's a "blame the mom" mentality in our society where there's so much pressure on women to be a perfect parent.  It's like there is no room for a woman to be a human being with flaws.  I really wish the writers were more balanced with Jack and how their parenting is portrayed and didn't make Rebeca the bad guy all the time.  I feel a lot of sympathy for her. 

Edited December 7, 2016 by Luckylyn

[DearEvette]

There were a couple of throwaway moments that stood out amidst the bigger drama -

Toby knew the girls' names, which one was which and brought them presents when he showed up.  That was nice and very thoughtful.  And honesty, very Toby.

Randall's boss who forced them to come to his house to get their Christmas bonuses  just because he had no family of his own to celebrate with  was bad enough, but then to throw the envelopes into the crowd so that people had to scrounge  on the floor to pick them up was really rather awful.  I loved Beth's look of "Oh no he just didn't....?"

[Dejana]

5 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

I think I figured out why older Rebecca doesn't quite work for me.  Mandy Moore doesn't age her voice at all.  My mother, and most people over about 60 I know, sound markedly different than they did 30 years ago.  Rebecca, however, sounds exactly the same.

IDK, I've had a job where I predominantly deal with retirees all day and while some people in their 60s sound "older", many don't. I'm not in a position to say if they sounded exactly the same 30 years ago but in my own life, people always tell my mother, sister and me that they can't easily distinguish our voices, and she's 30 years older than us. When my mother calls the cable company, her account lists how long she's been a customer, so the reps are always asking if it's really her or did she put her daughter on the phone without giving permission first, because she doesn't sound old enough to them, to have been an adult in the early '80s. Still, since Mandy's ageing makeup job is...not the greatest, perhaps modulating the present-day Rebecca's voice would help with the impression that she's older. I'm not sure if doing something like that on a prolonged basis would damage Mandy's singing voice, though, so if that's the case then she shouldn't do it.

 

1 hour ago, Luckylyn said:

I'm really sick of Rebeca being the parent who screws up with the kids and being the parent the kids are angry at as adults and Jack being the great parent.   On one level I get that the kids would romanticize the parent who died and be more critical for the parent who is still around.    But the show seems to make a point to have Jack come off better in the flashbacks.  Kevin blames Rebeca for favoring Randall, Kate blames her for mishandling her weight as a child, and Rebeca's the one who unilaterally decided to keep Randall from William.  Of course the writers have Rebeca assume Kate's stomach ache is from too much cookies, and super parent Jack's the one who realizes it's more serious.   In general there's a "blame the mom" mentality in our society where there's so much pressure on women to be a perfect parent.  It's like there is no room for a woman to be a human being with flaws.  I really wish the writers were more balanced with Jack and how their parenting is portrayed and didn't make Rebeca the bad guy all the time.  I feel a lot of sympathy for her. 

In isolation, Rebecca overlooking Little Kate's stomachache wouldn't be a big deal, but given her other actions in the flashbacks it really does seem as though all of the kids' issues as adults are being dumped at her feet. I don't mind Jack being the more fun/natural parent of the two, since she was ambivalent about having children at all, but the writers are really overdoing it. Reversing that scene to make Jack the dismissive one, while Rebecca realized something more serious was afoot, would have shown Jack not to have been the perfect dad for once, and the scene doesn't carry the same loaded connotations of Rebecca being critical of what Kate eats, again.

 

48 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

Randall's boss who forced them to come to his house to get their Christmas bonuses  just because he had no family of his own to celebrate with  was bad enough, but then to throw the envelopes into the crowd so that people had to scrounge  on the floor to pick them up was really rather awful.  I loved Beth's look of "Oh no he just didn't....?"

I was wondering what kind of Hallmark/Lifetime holiday movie realness was happening, for there to be an office Christmas party on Christmas Eve. Who does that? Even if the boss is lonely, Randall's job seems like the sort of place that at best would have a skeletal/junior staff on hand to run things while everyone else with any sort of seniority at all is off for the year, by the 21st or so.

Edited December 7, 2016 by Dejana

[SadieT]

When Toby came in all amped up to win Kate back, armed with gifts for the girls and happily introducing himself to the family, I actually thought to myself, "oh maybe he's not so bad after all!" I was even happy for Kate. And then they (most likely) killed him in the middle of what looked like a lovely Christmas Eve celebration so there goes that. 

I love Sloane and hope she stays. I was wondering where they were going with awful Olivia and was truly worried that they were setting her and Kevin up to be together long term, but if she was just leading us to Sloane then I accept and forgive the writers for inflicting Olivia on us. 

Kevin looked so enamored during Sloane's Hanukkah story that I thought he was going to announce he was converting to Judaism right then and there. 

Little Kevin holding onto little Kate's hospital gurney was so sweet. So was little Randall spending his money on a gift for Dr. K. Those little Pearsons sure are adorable. 

I'll be honest, Miguel's enthusiasm for Christmas decorating won him some point from me. 

Tess's casual "grandpa's gay, or at least bi" and the look on her parents' faces was one of my favorite moments from the series so far. Loved that it was so obvious to the child but took Randall and Beth a bit longer to catch on. 

Kate and Rebecca. You could just feel the tension between them in that gastric bypass consultation. And that car scene. I was actually pleasantly surprised to see Rebecca questioning her role in Kate's weight struggles and whether she focused too much or too little on food with Kate when she was growing up. I don't think parents realize how all those "Don't eat that! You don't wanna get fat, do you?" type comments effect a kid growing up, so I appreciated hearing Rebecca admitting that she tried her best but maybe she messed up because it's such a delicate situation. 

I watch the show with my sister who had to undergo a psychological evaluation before her surgeon signed off on her gastric bypass and she couldn't help but laugh at the Rebecca/Kate scenes because she said the shrink who did her evaluation immediately zeroed in on her relationship with our mother so Rebecca's concern was certainly valid, if not a bit too late. And my mom was sort of like Rebecca in that in trying to help my sister, I think she might have made the issue worse by constantly pointing out what she should and shouldn't be eating, and putting her on diets that weren't designed for kids, and telling her how pretty she'd be if she lost weight because she made everything about her weight and I think that's what Rebecca did with Kate.

Edited December 7, 2016 by SadieT

[ElectricBoogaloo]

That Was Us:

[Johnny Dollar]

I don't get all of the Toby hate. I like his character. 

They need to dress Sloane in a tight blue shirt and khakis and try to sell Kevin an iPhone.

They're really making Rebecca out to be a cold hearted bitch in her later years.  It will be interesting to see how that came about and how Jack's death affected her.

Just because it can't be said enough, "Shut up Miguel".

[RedVelvetWaffles]

A mom is only as happy as her least happy child. Moms blame themselves and ask if something they did caused it, or if they had done something differently, would something have changed. 

A few years ago a friend's 5-year-old was diagnosed with leukemia. My friend questioned if she had not fed her healthily enough, or done this or that. It wasn't all about her, it was whether she had unintentionally hurt her child.  That's how I saw Rebecca's, "Did I do this to you?"

I hope, if Toby dies, that might serve as a way to bond Kate and Rebecca. Randall and Kevin understand what it is like to lose a father. Rebecca understands what it is like to lose the your significant other/spouse. 

Kate will blame herself, not because she's fat, but because that's what happens when someone dies, especially suddenly. "Why didn't I notice he/she wasn't feeling well sooner?" Skinny people, fat people, average people will all blame themselves if something bad happens to someone they love.  

I did love Christmas at Randall's and seeing them all being a family.

[JudyObscure]

Well now it's settled.  How bad is not calling first?  The penalty is death.

I really do feel sad for Kate.  Toby was proving more and more to be her Hugh Grant and I'm sure she'll think she wont ever find another man who'll love her quite that much, few of us do.

I look forward to the day when being cool about gayness doesn't make a character awesome, just normal.

[J0nas3]

It was really nice to see Ron Cephas Jones on That Was Us, and for Susan Kelechi Watson to say something. It seemed like last week all she did was sit on the couch. It'd be nice to see Sterling Brown again, but I also remember how he seemed to filibuster the aftershow for the pilot.

[MyAimIsTrue]

I don't like super sappy "very special episodes."  I don't like unnecessary plot twists for the sake of attempting to be dramatic like revealing a character might be gay.  I'm Jewish and Hanukkah is an extremely minor, made up holiday (the story of the oil is not real according to my Rabbi) so I see no need to perpetuate the myth.

All that being said I LOVED this episode.  It was perfect.  Mic drop.

[Haleth]

8 hours ago, AuntiePam said:

Again, Toby goes the extra mile for Kate -- 600 of 'em.  It's a bit presumptuous to barge in on a family Christmas but it's also brave.

Good thing Kate changed her mind and decided to go to Randall's or it would have been really awkward!

6 hours ago, breezy424 said:

Was that the longest Christmas Eve ever?  Beth and Randall went to a business dinner in the dark, apparently in NYC

It was probably just a cocktail party, but what company would have a party on Christmas Eve?  I hope the bonuses were worth it.

I love Sloane and hope she stays around.  

The writers have been great at fleshing out Randall and Kevin as kind, empathetic characters.  Now they need to give Kate something to do that doesn't revolve around her weight.  

I don't know how it could have happened but Beth must be descended from Lagertha.  She's that awesome.

[Mrs. DuRona]

I was actually really relieved that the Christmas Eve tradition wasn't going to the hospital or something.  The Thanksgiving episode was a bit much with the family traditions stemming from one crazy night.  

I laughed so hard at "Grandpa's gay.  Or at least bi" and the long hold on Randall's face.

[luna1122]

Quote

Mandy Moore doesn't age her voice at all.  My mother, and most people over about 60 I know, sound markedly different than they did 30 years ago.  Rebecca, however, sounds exactly the same.

I answer a lot of phone calls at work and can usually tell if someone is of a certain age, but I'm often surprised when they tell me they're over 70 or something (as some of what I requires knowing their age). And my mom, who just turned 76, sounds pretty much exactly like she always did. I do think it might be a good acting device to make us believe she's not just 32 year old Mandy Moore in a bad wig, but it's not necessarily something that always happens as you age.
 

Quote

 

From this armchair doctor, since they had just had sex, they would've noticed discoloration - I got the full suite of tests April 2015 for DVT and I got a whole bunch of fun tests and questions. You get a lot of questions when your feet are purple and swollen - especially when there is a slow (10+ second) capillary refill).

 

I'm thinking the kind of hasty, at-a-party sex they had probably meant most of their clothes didn't ever actually come off, let alone their shoes. Or do other body parts get, um, purple and swollen as well? I think DVT is a fairly good guess for what Toby has...and I do hope they don't kill him. More than anything, just cause I don't want to see what that does to Kate.

Quote

Toby knew the girls' names, which one was which and brought them presents when he showed up.  That was nice and very thoughtful.  And honesty, very Toby.

This is true, and another reason I hope they don't kill him. I don't love the guy, but he's an inherently NICE guy. I don't even remember the girls' names and I watch the show every week.

Quote

Is no one else concerned that Randall literally had to talk a man off a ledge, and they just let him go?

I was VERY upset that nobody went after him, or called anyone, or anything. Were I Randall, I would not assume I'd literally talked him off the ledge, but that Beth's entering had just made him change his mind about doing it there. I'd be terrified that he was just going to go back to hotel room and off himself. His problems are still there, he's still about to lose his wife and his job. I would at least try to call his estranged ex or something, who might hate him and want to divorce him but presumably doesn't want him to splat himself all over New York.  I love Jimmi Simpson so much that I was far more concerned about him than Toby or Dr. Folksy. I really do hope there is some kind of follow up about him, tho I doubt there will be. I'd be perfectly happy if he became a new cast member!

I was very relieved to know that Clooney is okay.

I have no problem with the idea that William is bisexual, but it did kind of seem a contrivance just to have a plot twist, as did Olivia just up and quitting a show she was getting paid for and presumably under contract with just because Kevin called her out. As was Dr Folksy just happening to be at the hospital the same night that Kate needed an appendectomy. This show is built on contrivances, which usually drive me crazy, but I still dig it.

Quote

I'll be honest, Miguel's enthusiasm for Christmas decorating won him some point from me

Me too. I won't have a problem hating on Miguel if given reason, but so far, I don't really have one. And he was so happy about his Xmas decorations, it was sweet, even if the man cannot read the room to save his life.

The recap mentioned that when we last saw Sloane, she was all in a dither to get to her sister who'd just had a baby, but there did not seem to be  sister who'd just given birth at the dinner, which: yeah. A little continuity there might have been nice. I do like Sloane a lot. So did Olivia just steal her car and never return it?

[teapot100]

1 hour ago, Johnny Dollar said:

I don't get all of the Toby hate. I like his character. 

They need to dress Sloane in a tight blue shirt and khakis and try to sell Kevin an iPhone.

 

haha, I love Sloane/AT&T girl!

Anyway, loved this episode. I haven't been hooked on a network TV drama since...Lost, but This Is Us is giving me the feels from Rebecca/Kate to Randall/William to Kevin/Randall - all of them. I avoided this show for weeks, but gave it a go and well, here I am.

btw, if Toby had a heart attack - would they use a defibrillator if they were operating on his heart - maybe, but would his whole body jerk like that if they were using the defibrillator directly on his heart? 

[Janc]

17 minutes ago, luna1122 said:

The recap mentioned that when we last saw Sloane, she was all in a dither to get to her sister who'd just had a baby, but there did not seem to be  sister who'd just given birth at the dinner, which: yeah. A little continuity there might have been nice. I do like Sloane a lot. So did Olivia just steal her car and never return it?

Yes! Continuity is lacking on this show for sure, it feels like there was a missing episode that would have filled in on various holes. Also: did Kate quit her job with Jami Gertz?  It seemed strange the family was sitting bedside with the doctor rather than their own KID who is recovering from her first surgery on C'MAS EVE!  Randall was so cute, spending his C'mas money from Grandma on the snow globe for the dr. 

[LadyNebula]

6 hours ago, bros402 said:

From this armchair doctor, since they had just had sex, they would've noticed discoloration - I got the full suite of tests April 2015 for DVT and I got a whole bunch of fun tests and questions. You get a lot of questions when your feet are purple and swollen - especially when there is a slow (10+ second) capillary refill).

In case you were curious, you get even more questions when your feet aren't purple and swollen from a DVT and they find nothing on the scans that could be causing it.

Ah, but if it was a quickie, all of his clothes might not have been off.  Plus, who'd be paying attention to skin color at that time? ;)

Dammit, I'm reduced to discussing fictional characters' sex lives.  My life is sad.

Anyhoo, I think I was overthinking it.  It'll be a heart attack, I'm sure.  But let it be known that if we do find out it was DVT, I'm gonna be the first to scream,"I knew it!  All of those medical examiner shows finally paid off!"

[Crs97]

3 hours ago, Luckylyn said:

 

I'm really sick of Rebeca being the parent who screws up with the kids and being the parent the kids are angry at as adults and Jack being the great parent.   On one level I get that the kids would romanticize the parent who died and be more critical for the parent who is still around.    But the show seems to make a point to have Jack come off better in the flashbacks.  Kevin blames Rebeca for favoring Randall, Kate blames her for mishandling her weight as a child, and Rebeca's the one who unilaterally decided to keep Randall from William.  Of course the writers have Rebeca assume Kate's stomach ache is from too much cookies, and super parent Jack's the one who realizes it's more serious.   In general there's a "blame the mom" mentality in our society where there's so much pressure on women to be a perfect parent.  It's like there is no room for a woman to be a human being with flaws.  I really wish the writers were more balanced with Jack and how their parenting is portrayed and didn't make Rebeca the bad guy all the time.  I feel a lot of sympathy for her. 

 

I wish I could like this 1000 times!   

[GodsBeloved]

I hope Toby isn't gone. 

I laughed at Beth I don't know about your marriage but we don't keep secrets. First Randall doesn't tell her he's searching for William and now he doesn't tell her he bought a boat.

Sloan and Kevin had a nice flow going. Hopefully they will progress. 

I was happy to see Rebecca with Kate, especially at the doctor's office. As someone who is like Kate and been overweight for most of my life, had thin sister and mother who did the best she knew how regarding my weight, at some point I had to take responsibility and not blame my mom(stop thinking she did this to me) for me being overweight.

I enjoyed the ending minus Toby falling out. I'd be blessed to be a part of this family, Rebecca and all.

[One Imaginary Girl]

I'm reminded of the thirtysomething episode when we expect the worst for Nancy but Gary dies instead.  Also similar because at the time I hated Gary for a cutting remark he'd made to Melissa shortly before (she was my favorite character), and earlier in this episode I was pretty annoyed at Toby for just showing up uninvited and again making one of his grand gestures.  Didn't want him killed off, though!

[GodsBeloved]

4 hours ago, Luckylyn said:

I'm really sick of Rebeca being the parent who screws up with the kids and being the parent the kids are angry at as adults and Jack being the great parent.   On one level I get that the kids would romanticize the parent who died and be more critical for the parent who is still around.    But the show seems to make a point to have Jack come off better in the flashbacks.  Kevin blames Rebeca for favoring Randall, Kate blames her for mishandling her weight as a child, and Rebeca's the one who unilaterally decided to keep Randall from William.  Of course the writers have Rebeca assume Kate's stomach ache is from too much cookies, and super parent Jack's the one who realizes it's more serious.   In general there's a "blame the mom" mentality in our society where there's so much pressure on women to be a perfect parent.  It's like there is no room for a woman to be a human being with flaws.  I really wish the writers were more balanced with Jack and how their parenting is portrayed and didn't make Rebeca the bad guy all the time.  I feel a lot of sympathy for her. 

As I watched the Kate's tummy hurt scene, I thought oh Rebecca is gonna get ripped for this.

[Clanstarling]

10 hours ago, Jodithgrace said:

One other distraction: I watch tv with the closed captioning on and when Kate turned on the Christmas music in the car, the closed captioning was spitting out all of the lyrics for "Hark the herald angels sing," while the radio was clearly playing "Little drummer boy." Somebody got their wires crossed, there.

That annoyed me too. It's amazing how distracting that was.

9 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

This is the first episode where William had a solo plot, so that was nice. It gave a little more insight and let him be more than just the perfect saint. 

I liked that too, now we just need to see a little tarnish on Jack.

8 hours ago, random chance said:

At first all their talk of "nothing bad happens on Christmas Eve" had me rolling my eyes (and also thinking, if this were real life, eventually that statement would bite you in the ass hard), and then they go and strike down Toby.

That statement really bugged me, but mostly because I have personal experience that bad things do happen. We had a death in the family on Christmas Eve, not as dramatic or unexpected as Toby keeling over, but nevertheless, it made Christmas Eve less than joyful for many years later.

[luna1122]

6 minutes ago, One Imaginary Girl said:

I'm reminded of the thirtysomething episode when we expect the worst for Nancy but Gary dies instead.  Also similar because at the time I hated Gary for a cutting remark he'd made to Melissa shortly before (she was my favorite character), and earlier in this episode I was pretty annoyed at Toby for just showing up uninvited and again making one of his grand gestures.  Didn't want him killed off, though!

Oh, I was so devastated by Gary's death. And that was in the dark ages, before spoilers and message boards. Literally three of my friends called me when that happened, and we all cried over it. Good times. The misdirect of last night's show was indeed very reminiscent. But Toby is no Gary Shephard.

[PRgal]

1 hour ago, Haleth said:

Good thing Kate changed her mind and decided to go to Randall's or it would have been really awkward!

It was probably just a cocktail party, but what company would have a party on Christmas Eve?  I hope the bonuses were worth it.

I love Sloane and hope she stays around.  

The writers have been great at fleshing out Randall and Kevin as kind, empathetic characters.  Now they need to give Kate something to do that doesn't revolve around her weight.  

I don't know how it could have happened but Beth must be descended from Lagertha.  She's that awesome.

And with so many attendees, too.  Are they trying to say that there are a lot of lonely people in the Greater NYC area on Christmas Eve/first night of Hannukah (because it's on December 24 this year)?

I found the This Was Us video weird.  One second you see Milo and the other second, you see Ron Cephas Jones.  In the same seat.  And at first, I thought my eyes were playing tricks on me. 
 

As for Toby's hospitalization:  I think Rebecca said nothing bad happens on CHRISTMAS EVE.  She didn't say Christmas Day.  Toby's situation happened on December 25.

Edited December 7, 2016 by PRgal

[Good Queen Jane]

This year is really messing up the Pearson's holiday traditions. No wonder Randall wants to go back to before he found William. I though that was a telling remark.

When they talked about Olivia disappearing, I wondered if she and man-bun had a car accident on their way out from the cabin or if something else bad happened to them and that they will show up later after spending the month in a coma in a hospital. Why ever Olivia disappeared, I hope she stays gone.  

[GodsBeloved]

How did I forget kid Kevin holding onto kid Kate while she was being rolled into surgery and the seeing Randall holding on to Rebecca as she reassures him that Kate would be alright. I love kid Big 3. 

I also loved seeing Randall and Kevin running around again and I want to know if grandma gives Randall the same amount of Christmas cash as she give the twins. 

Edited December 7, 2016 by GodsBeloved

[PRgal]

2 minutes ago, GodsBeloved said:

How did I forget kid Kevin holding on topic kid Kate while she was being rolled into surgery and the seeing Randall holding on to Rebecca as she reassures him that Kate would be alright. I love kid Big 3. 

I also loved seeing Randall and Kevin running around again and I want to know if grandma gives Randall the same amount of Christmas cash as she give the twins. 

LOL on Randall saying he's going to be "rich" when he grows up.  He *IS* the most successful out of the Big 3. 

[Packerbrewerbadger]

Olivia was so about acting and her career above all else, I find it strange she bolted the play - just because Kevin told her off?-  I don't think she even cared about him very much. Seems out of character for her.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

7 hours ago, AuntiePam said:

I like that William's not perfect -- leaving Jesse, not telling him that he's sick, not letting him be part of his life at the end.  William might see it as a kindness but it's something that Jesse might not be able to forgive.  Nah -- he's still perfect. 

Again, Toby goes the extra mile for Kate -- 600 of 'em.  It's a bit presumptuous to barge in on a family Christmas but it's also brave.  He didn't know how Kate would react, or what she might have told the family about him.  I'd like for him not to be dead but I fear that he is.  My guess is that Kate won't go ahead with the surgery, that she'll give the diet another try. 

Jesse did know that Randall was sick before he disappeared. After the AA meeting, one of the first things Jesse asked Randall was about his cancer and Randall told him that it had spread.

The flight was six hours, not 600 miles. Toby flew from LA to an airport on the East Coast (probably Newark?), which is about 2500 miles if you have a direct flight. A 600 mile flight is less than two hours (I live 500 miles from my parents and the flight is 80-90 minutes from gate to gate).

I felt sorry for everyone staying at Randall's house as I tried to figure out where Kate and Toby had sex. Then I took Kevin out of the equation when I remembered that he had sex at a stranger's house after her husband's funeral. Part of me kind of hoped that Kate and Toby did it in Kevin's basement area, so I was a little disappointed when I saw them coming downstairs afterward (meaning they must have done it upstairs). 

The younger kids were so sweet in this episode. Even though Randall was asking strangers to roll their tongues, he still loved his family enough to thank Dr. K for his role in bringing them together. And Kevin was so protective of Kate. It was nice to have a flashback where Randall and Kevin weren't fighting with each other the whole time (I'm willing to overlook the brief argument they had at the beginning - interesting to see how important money was to Randall even as a child and how it later manifested itself as him buying things when he gets depressed).

[Biggie B]

I am really liking William's beau a lot! I am drawn to very verbal people with a sharp wit, and that's how Jesse came across to me. I also appreciate that he told William flat out how angry/scared/upset/hurt he was but almost in the same breath was able to express his love and his desire to spend whatever time William has left with him. No beating around the bush, just lay the cards on the table. I really appreciated that, rather than some drawn-out situation where there's no communication between characters and both jump to the wrong conclusions (see: Grey's Anatomy, specifically, Jo and Alex). So, welcome Jesse! I hope he and William can make the very best of the rest of their lives, and of course, we viewers definitely need some history on their relationship. At least we know Clooney is safe and sound!

Toby...I still don't like him, but I will give him credit this time. He was so much less obnoxious and seemed to truly enjoy the festivities. It looked as if he was fitting in pretty seamlessly with the family. What he said to Kate - that he's back on the diet and wants to lose the weight for him and for her - I appreciated that as well but am still reserving the right to be skeptical. He's still not someone I'd like to spend time with but if he truly loves Kate and their relationship works for BOTH of them, then who am I to judge? I don't know if Toby lives or dies...I don't feel that we were given a clear answer one way or the other...but if he does live, would that mean Kate goes back to the west coast? I like her being with her family. Perhaps if Toby does die, that will be enough of a shock for Kate to decide to relocate back east.

As for Kate's possible surgery, I would think that unless the actress herself is going to have it done, Kate the character won't go through with it.

What more can even be said about Randall's scene with his suicidal co-worker? Jeez. I truly thought the fellow was going to jump...but that would have been just way too intense and wouldn't have permitted the final scenes at Randall's house to play out. Rather, it allowed we viewers to hear Randall's thoughts about children forgiving their parents. I do hope for his sake that he is working through everything he's been through...finding his bio dad and learning of Rebecca's secret...and that he can find a way to forgive Rebecca (and William, for different reasons) and learn to understand what happened. I think he'll get there. He may be a different person for it, but that's part of life - the things we go through shape us and have an impact and can make us even "more" of the person we already are, or can unlock a whole new part of us we never knew.

I thought the whole thing with Dr. Folksy Charm was a bit cheesy, but...he's a nice guy and certainly did play a huge role in the family's lives, so...glad he survived.

I don't like the fact that Olivia has "disappeared" for a month without word to anyone. Is that setting us up for her to reappear when we least expect it? Hope not, but I feel like she's going to return and make life miserable for Kevin and Sloane and the play.

Sloane's family  - her sister was quite the bitch, I thought, but at least Sloane stood up to her and gave as good as she got. I did chuckle when the dad said he took a pass on investing in "Wicked," and the mother said with resignation, "And here we are." I'd almost want to re-watch that whole scene, as there was so much fast dialogue that I'm sure I missed something.

Circling back to Toby for a minute, on a personal note, I had a heart attack the day AFTER Christmas, in 2006. With the 10th anniversary of that craziness approaching, Toby's scene really struck a nerve with me. And at the risk of divulging too much...my dad attempted suicide a number of years ago, unsuccessfully, due largely in part to financial issues (he wasn't having an affair, though!), so I also paid close attention to what Randall was saying about the forgiveness children bestow on their parents. The writing on this show continues to be on point. It will indeed be a long wait until the show returns.

EDITED to add: it just struck me that Kate is consulting with a surgeon here on the east coast - so does that mean she's staying? Even if Toby lives?

Edited December 7, 2016 by Biggie B

[vendredi3]

Was I the only one who shouted out "Yay, a Christmas miracle!" when Toby collapsed? This episode had everything.

[Pallas]

8 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

I guess she could stay in Kevin's unused hotel suite....

No, that's where they're producing Sloane's play. 

Kevin, you mensch, you! That bold move was positively Maccabean. And I love how Tess must have aced her pop quiz on people with two fathers -- like her dad.  

[Cardie]

1 hour ago, luna1122 said:

So did Olivia just steal her car and never return it?

It was a rental car. I assume Olivia dropped it off at an airport or something. But who knows with Olivia.

The Christmas Eve party was being thrown privately by the big boss who was lonely, not the company.  And people attended because he was the big boss and because they wouldn't get their bonus checks if they weren't there.

[Aloeonatable]

5 hours ago, Luckylyn said:

I'm really sick of Rebeca being the parent who screws up with the kids and being the parent the kids are angry at as adults and Jack being the great parent.   On one level I get that the kids would romanticize the parent who died and be more critical for the parent who is still around.    But the show seems to make a point to have Jack come off better in the flashbacks.  Kevin blames Rebeca for favoring Randall, Kate blames her for mishandling her weight as a child, and Rebeca's the one who unilaterally decided to keep Randall from William.  Of course the writers have Rebeca assume Kate's stomach ache is from too much cookies, and super parent Jack's the one who realizes it's more serious.   In general there's a "blame the mom" mentality in our society where there's so much pressure on women to be a perfect parent.  It's like there is no room for a woman to be a human being with flaws.  I really wish the writers were more balanced with Jack and how their parenting is portrayed and didn't make Rebeca the bad guy all the time.  I feel a lot of sympathy for her. 

I think this comes from the fact that Rebecca didn't want children and Jack did. Jack is just a very nurturing parent. We were shown, in one episode, that he was at one time drinking too much and not spending time at home, so he is far from a perfect parent. I'm kind of glad that we see a father who is in love with his family.

[Tikichick]

Can't help but think that there was significance in Andy's confession to Randall.  Perhaps it won't simply be about taking a hard look at forgiving mom, but rather Randall speaking from insight gained from the past.

[Court]

I don't have an issue with Rebecca brushing off Kate's tummy ache. I would and have done the exact same thing. 

She was/is concerned about Kate. It was clear to me she feels a lot of guilt and does love Kate. You can see the strained relationship they have and I can see how it got there.

[ShadowFacts]

1 minute ago, Aloeonatable said:

I think this comes from the fact that Rebecca didn't want children and Jack did. Jack is just a very nurturing parent. We were shown, in one episode, that he was at one time drinking too much and not spending time at home, so he is far from a perfect parent. I'm kind of glad that we see a father who is in love with his family.

I agree, and early on we are shown that he undermined Rebecca in front of the kids (breakfast choices) and stood there expecting to have her make some coffee.  Not exactly angelic there, but his love for his family shines through. 

4 minutes ago, Cardie said:

The Christmas Eve party was being thrown privately by the big boss who was lonely, not the company.  And people attended because he was the big boss and because they wouldn't get their bonus checks if they weren't there.

I thought it had been established in earlier episodes that Randall was one of three partners?  Or was it just that he was a partner in a bigger firm?  If the host was the managing partner then I guess Randall would have to/want to be there, but what a jerk the guy was to throw the bonus envelopes the way he did.  Maybe Randall has a career change in his future. 

[DeepPoet117]

1 hour ago, luna1122 said:

I was VERY upset that nobody went after him, or called anyone, or anything. Were I Randall, I would not assume I'd literally talked him off the ledge, but that Beth's entering had just made him change his mind about doing it there. I'd be terrified that he was just going to go back to hotel room and off himself. His problems are still there, he's still about to lose his wife and his job. I would at least try to call his estranged ex or something, who might hate him and want to divorce him but presumably doesn't want him to splat himself all over New York.  I love Jimmi Simpson so much that I was far more concerned about him than Toby or Dr. Folksy. I really do hope there is some kind of follow up about him, tho I doubt there will be. I'd be perfectly happy if he became a new cast member!

The recap mentioned that when we last saw Sloane, she was all in a dither to get to her sister who'd just had a baby, but there did not seem to be  sister who'd just given birth at the dinner, which: yeah. A little continuity there might have been nice. I do like Sloane a lot. So did Olivia just steal her car and never return it?

Didn't she rent the car because her sister lived upstate? I can see a woman with a newborn not wanting to make the trek to NYC for Hanukkah dinner.

I agree with being upset that no one went after the suicidal boss (Jimmi Simpson? He played Mary Lightly on Psych! I thought he looked familiar). Randall should have at least called 911 and had the police check on him. 

[annewithaneee]

I want to stay in with this show, because Randall, but I'm struggling. The constant monologuing isn't Shondaland-levels of irritating to me yet, but I have a feeling it's going to get there in short order. 

Something that really bugged me and took me out of it -- why did Randall never tell Beth about what happened on the balcony? They didn't need to show us them talking about it, but it bothered me that after they got home, they made it clear that Beth still didn't know why Randall was on edge. They should have spent that same time establishing that they had talked about it on the drive home. I don't want this show to make their marriage conveniently non-communicative. I don't believe that after that wild-eyed "stay back" command to Beth, who was clearly put off by it, that she wouldn't have follow-up questions until she got her answer. And he had basically no reason not to tell her. It's a little thing, but I hate when shows do stuff like that, and I take it as an omen for more plot convenient (and out of character) miscommunication or non-communication to come.

This might have been my least favorite episode so far...it wasn't bad, it just seemed like it was doing too much and none of it really landed with me. Probably my first dry-eyed hour. I kept worrying that one of the twists was going to be that Randall has a brain tumor or something and the suicide attempt never actually happened - I mean, it would be one, super terrible way to keep Milo Ventimiglia employed for many seasons to come even after the flashbacks are exhausted, Hallucination Ghost Dad - but thank god the shark remained un-jumped.

[OtterMommy]

1 hour ago, luna1122 said:

The recap mentioned that when we last saw Sloane, she was all in a dither to get to her sister who'd just had a baby, but there did not seem to be  sister who'd just given birth at the dinner, which: yeah. A little continuity there might have been nice. I do like Sloane a lot. So did Olivia just steal her car and never return it?

I noticed that too, but I explained it away well enough to at least satisfy myself.  

Sloane never mentioned that she only had one sister.  Sister A (mentioned last week) lived somewhere far enough away that Sloane would have had to drive to see her.  Sister B (this week's sister) was IN New York, although we don't know if that is where she lives.  What we do know about her is that:

1 - Sloane doesn't seem especially close to her
2 - She has two kids, neither of which is a newborn.

I have a number of older siblings and, while I was excited when each of them became parents, I'll admit that I am closer to some than others and, because of that, I would be more likely to try and be physically there at that time for the ones I was closer too.  So, I'm going with the line that Sloane has two sisters.

Yeah, it kind of bugs me when I have to figure this out when 2-3 lines of dialogue would have worked perfectly:
Sloane: Come to dinner with my parents and sister.
Kevin: Didn't your sister just have a baby?
Sloane: No, that was the other one.

However, this is the only time (so far) I've had to do it for this show, while there are other shows where I pretty much have to have my own plot lines running alongside the show itself for the show to make any sense.  So, no biggie here...as long as it doesn't become a regular thing.

Back to Olivia for a second....I'm not sure how Olivia can just "disappear" without there being some sort of legal consequence.  She signed a contract, there are investors in the show.  It looks like the show had not yet opened, so I don't know why her understudy wasn't called in.  Yeah, she was originally the "big name" of the show as the Tony-nominated actress, but it was made pretty clear that the focus shifted once they hired the Manny (who, based on his audition, they hired ONLY for name recognition).  At the very least, there should be some professional repercussions for this.  I would think that no producer would want to hire an actress who just ran off from her last show.

But then, Kevin hasn't faced any legal consequence for breaking his Manny contract and, professionally, he may have been put on the TV shitlist, but he obviously can still get work in the theater...so who knows?

[Tikichick]

6 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I thought it had been established in earlier episodes that Randall was one of three partners?  Or was it just that he was a partner in a bigger firm?  If the host was the managing partner then I guess Randall would have to/want to be there, but what a jerk the guy was to throw the bonus envelopes the way he did.  Maybe Randall has a career change in his future. 

I don't recall anything about Randall being a partner in a big firm.  I thought he was a top performer there, though.  Certainly can't imagine him being a partner and allowing the Christmas Eve forced attendance party to happen on his watch -- which also pulled him and Beth away from Medium and Little Turkey.

Throwing the envelopes was completely degrading and so over the top for me that it pulled me out of the episode for a few minutes.  

[OtterMommy]

10 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I thought it had been established in earlier episodes that Randall was one of three partners?  Or was it just that he was a partner in a bigger firm?  If the host was the managing partner then I guess Randall would have to/want to be there, but what a jerk the guy was to throw the bonus envelopes the way he did.  Maybe Randall has a career change in his future. 

I'm planning to rewatch the episode later today, but was the envelope throwing boss the same one who was going to jump?

Yeah, the Christmas Eve night party was a little strange.  Most companies, while maybe still open for business on Christmas Eve, don't plan social events.  If they were going to do that, it would have made more sense for it to be some sort of luncheon or something.

[Indy]

Damnit show!!  You just convince me to cancel my season-pass to the Toby Hate Train (something about Kate's face when he showed up made me lighten up a bit on him) and then you go and give him a heart attack? WT-everloving-F!  I wanted him off the show, not dead! Though maybe him dying will help Kate get the support she needs from her family for her weight loss plan/surgery. 

The scene with Tess realizing that William is gay or at least bi was awesome. Her nonchalant reveal was adorable, and the silent reactions of Randall and Beth were great. Randall's was like, "ooooooohhhhh, I get it now"....and Beth's was like "wow this is a weird-ass night, I need more wine."  I'm glad we got some resolution about Clooney the cat. 

Sloane is fantastic. She's spunky, cute, and smart, and she's great with Kevin.  I hope she really does wind up dating The Manny.  And I want to go back and memorize how she tells the Hanukkah story for when I start telling it to my son. Because it was perfect. 

[ShadowFacts]

6 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

I don't recall anything about Randall being a partner in a big firm.  I thought he was a top performer there, though.  Certainly can't imagine him being a partner and allowing the Christmas Eve forced attendance party to happen on his watch -- which also pulled him and Beth away from Medium and Little Turkey.

Throwing the envelopes was completely degrading and so over the top for me that it pulled me out of the episode for a few minutes.  

I thought, and could be wrong, that when Beth was talking to William about Randall in an earlier episode that she mentioned about the stress he underwent when he was about to make partner.  And I think Randall had a line once about one of his partners.  But it is true that this creep must be in a superior position to make that awful envelope scene possible. 

Edited December 7, 2016 by ShadowFacts

[Guest]

Didn't like it.

I felt like they dropped bombshells just for shock's value. Usually, I feel there is a better flow to the show, but I didn't see it this time. 

The storyline of the guy with the boat who was suicidal took a lot of time to go.... nowhere. 

I also hated that while their daughter is in surgery and their son is terrified, Jack and Rebecca are nowhere to be found. At least have him in the room with you while you talk to Dr. K. 

I don't buy that Sloane ditched the play over her fight with Kevin. That's just dumb.  She's a Tony-winning actress.  She's a professional. We're to buy she just disappeared over some guy who she didn't really seem that in to getting mad at her?

[OtterMommy]

1 minute ago, deaja said:

I also hated that while their daughter is in surgery and their son is terrified, Jack and Rebecca are nowhere to be found. At least have him in the room with you while you talk to Dr. K. 

I didn't HATE that they spent time with Dr K, but I did find it a little unrealistic that they would just let 2 of their pre-teen kids just roam the hospital without any supervision....

[DearEvette]

3 hours ago, Johnny Dollar said:

Just because it can't be said enough, "Shut up Miguel".

Awww... I kinda liked Miguel in this.  I don't have the same animus for him that some do.  I am very curious to see how he and Rebecca ended up together.  But I had to laugh at him putting up the lights and his obsession with the 'Doug Fir'.  It sounded so much like the thing an awkward stepdad would say.  LOL.

8 hours ago, breezy424 said:

Was that the longest Christmas Eve ever?  Beth and Randall went to a business dinner in the dark, apparently in NYC.  They then they come home and people show up, dinner was somehow prepared and then we have all this interaction after dinner?  Time for games too?  Amazing, at least to me...  Even with sundown around 4:30/5:00 in the East during this time, really?

I know it did seem like forever.  I head-wank that they were at the boss' house for cocktails around 4-5-ish but  left early.  Yeah, it is dead dark this time of the year on the east coast at 5:00pm.  But since they had already planned to have people over, food was already cooked and just needed to be warmed.  So even if they got home around 6:00 -7:00 that is still a good 3 hours of evening to do stuff.  Also the way it was filmed stuff was happening simultaneously.

 

42 minutes ago, Biggie B said:

I am really liking William's beau a lot! I am drawn to very verbal people with a sharp wit, and that's how Jesse came across to me. I also appreciate that he told William flat out how angry/scared/upset/hurt he was but almost in the same breath was able to express his love and his desire to spend whatever time William has left with him. No beating around the bush, just lay the cards on the table. I really appreciated that, rather than some drawn-out situation where there's no communication between characters and both jump to the wrong conclusions (see: Grey's Anatomy, specifically, Jo and Alex). So, welcome Jesse! I hope he and William can make the very best of the rest of their lives, and of course, we viewers definitely need some history on their relationship. At least we know Clooney is safe and sound!

I loved Jessie's speech.  The shade was real! I also love the way they revealed William had a boyfriend.  It is nice to have these little layers of a personality and life peeled back pieces at a time.  And of course William had a real, full life that he left behind before Randall knocked on his door. We had been told this, it was nice to see it pop up in this way. 

 

18 minutes ago, Court said:

I don't have an issue with Rebecca brushing off Kate's tummy ache. I would and have done the exact same thing. 

She was/is concerned about Kate. It was clear to me she feels a lot of guilt and does love Kate. You can see the strained relationship they have and I can see how it got there.

I don't either.  I think it didn't hit Rebecca in quite so starkly about Kate's weight until she saw visually in real numbers how much Kate weighed.  She looked shocked when she the woman asked "is this your current weight" and showed them the number.  it is one thing to look at your daughter and see that she is overweight, but it is another thing to see it quantified in real numbers. 

[ShadowFacts]

28 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

9 hours ago, breezy424 said:

Was that the longest Christmas Eve ever?  Beth and Randall went to a business dinner in the dark, apparently in NYC.  They then they come home and people show up, dinner was somehow prepared and then we have all this interaction after dinner?  Time for games too?  Amazing, at least to me...  Even with sundown around 4:30/5:00 in the East during this time, really?

I know it did seem like forever.  I head-wank that they were at the boss' house for cocktails around 4-5-ish but  left early.  Yeah, it is dead dark this time of the year on the east coast at 5:00pm.  But since they had already planned to have people over, food was already cooked and just needed to be warmed.  So even if they got home around 6:00 -7:00 that is still a good 3 hours of evening to do stuff.  Also the way it was filmed stuff was happening simultaneously.

They had an action-packed Thanksgiving as well.  Randall is a real carpe diem kind of guy.  Moss does not grow under his feet.  I would kind of like somebody like him in my family circle.