S01.E10: Last Christmas

[TobinAlbers]

Little Kevin asking which one was the best to pray to broke my heart. And his continuing to walk with Kate into surgery only for Jack to have to hold him back? And damn no one comforted him. He had to seek comfort and advice on prayer from a nurse! But the satisfied smile he gave Kate when she woke up was great. He was like 'See? You're fine. My prayers worked!' Really wish his parents took the time to comfort him but it just seems like another example of him realizing he was on his own taking care of himself.

The reveal of William being bisexual being through his hurt lover reading him for filth in their support group and the look on William's face with the pinching of the bridge of his nose had me howling! William was like 'Oh, damn. He's right behind me and talking about me.' Randall's grinning jaw drop when he realized his daddy had a boyfriend was too cute. Let him have the boat, Beth! 

Randall's scene with Andy was well done. Also nice note is threat the actor playing Andy is a close friend of Sterling's (18+ years) but had never worked with him and was so excited to get to do this scene with him.

Recbecca and Kate in the doctor's office,. Mandy had that silent mom head swivel dooown. 'Are you hearing all of this?' And then later when she's so tearful 'Did I do this to you?' And the very real frustration of not knowing if she was saying too much or too little...kids don't come with instructions. Rebecca loves and cared for her daughter and did the best she could at the time.

Kevin listening to Sloane's telling of the story? He was riveted. And talk about earning points with a girl's family - he was straight up supportive of her to the point of putting up his own money. A mom and dad want to see a man build their daughter up. And he honestly just fit right in and was able to bob and weave. Doubt they're endgame but it would be interesting if down the line Sloane returned when Kevin is mature. Other funny thing Sloane kinda looks like current Rebecca with the bob hair and glasses.

[ShadowFacts]

I guess we've been overdue for some twists and boy did we get them.  My favorite may be that Olivia has disappeared.  Happy Christmas to all.

[mtlchick]

Quote

 Seriously, it's nice to see Jimmi Simpson get steady work.

Out of the many "Person of Interest" from my beloved show, he was one of my top 5 so it was a happy surprise to see him here! 

[stonehaven]

Oh did I love this episode....I laughed out loud several times...and just sat there with  my mouth open...and man, Randall broke my heart while trying to convince Lyle the Intern not to jump...(Letterman reference).....Toby's collapse shocked me...William having a boyfriend was spoiled a bit but Randall's kids accepting it was perfect...

Beth is awesome..especially her lecture to Randall..."Don't you tell me not to come out here"...God, Sterling Brown is amazing..I may have to rewatch the OJ miniseries just to love him even more...

I kinda guessed the Doc would live when I didn't see the snow globe in the present...and the Sloane dinner scene was just right...

So, Olivia pulled out of the play and the producers(was one of them man-bun?) pulled the plug?

It may be a long wait to January but at least they gave us a date....and a chance to rewatch everything...

I am so in love with this show...it totally makes my Tuesday...and completely makes up for the sucakge that NCIS has become this year...

[ShortyMac]

Beth for President.

[DearEvette]

6 minutes ago, TobinAlbers said:

Kevin listening to Sloane's telling of the story? He was riveted.

Heck, I was too.  I liked how she told the story.  I loved how her sister was "Why can't I tell the story?  I can tell it beautifully too."

and Sloane's mother said "No offense honey, but you tell it like a hostage video."

Ha!

I also love that Sloane has the same complaints that her family never came to see her play (right down the street) just like Kevin had with none of his family coming to see The Manny.

I hope Sloane stays.  She is as awesome as Olivia was awful.

[Jx223]

This was definitely a heavier episode than I expected. I was surprised to see Kevin and Sloane bickering in the beginning. But I thought it was interesting how they ended up at her family's home. I like Sloane and want to see her hang around more.

Kate wasn't lying when she said that her and Rebecca had a strained relationship. Kate has a lot of animosity towards her that I hope she eventually lets go. Rebecca does love her and wants her to be happy. Hopefully Kate will eventually become closer to her mother as she works on herself.

I was thinking they might make William gay/bisexualwhen him and that guy started talking. I am interested in seeing what else happens with William on this show.

Glad Randall stopped his friend from jumping and I feel bad about Toby. I thought his speech to Kate was sweet and the rest of the family seemed to "approve" of him. They seemed happy for her when he showed up. I hope they don't kill him off. The show definitely needs to take a break from killing characters/having them be dying. I am also glad Dr. K made it through Christmas Eve. And I liked how everyone in spite of their issues ended up at Randall's house and they all had some good moments together before Toby collapsed. I like how Randall's home is a bit of a safe haven for everyone.

Edited December 7, 2016 by Jx223

[luna1122]

This show has never actually made me cry, but  Jimmi Simpson nearly jumping off a building did it. He already broke my heart Sunday night on 'westworld'; I wasn't emotionally prepared for him to show up here. It's weird to crush on a McPoyle, but I do  

Toby. I wasn't happy to see him but I don't actually wish death on him. So Kate has been back east for a month? Did she quit her Jami Gertz job? 

I wasn't expecting BiWilliam but I love Denis O'hare, so, cool, if random. 

[Jodithgrace]

Okay..so that was William from Westward as the suicidal coworker! That was driving me crazy. One other distraction: I watch tv with the closed captioning on and when Kate turned on the Christmas music in the car, the closed captioning was spitting out all of the lyrics for "Hark the herald angels sing," while the radio was clearly playing "Little drummer boy." Somebody got their wires crossed, there.

Those things aside, it was certainly a very interesting hour of television. I never knew what was going to happen next. When Sloan said that Kevin has to pretend to be her boyfriend, I groaned, but then Kevin made it okay by saying that they had done that plot on "The Manny." Twice. 

Everybody cancelled out on Randall's Christmas eve. And then they uncancelled. Toby showed up unexpectedly, and then just as unexpectedly...I think the last sound we heard was Toby flatlining, but I could be wrong.

I loved Beth's reaction to the boat. I hope Randall can unload it when he's no longer depressed. Boats are only a good idea when somebody that you know owns one.  But I didn't expect the suicidal coworker. 

I did have to laugh when I realized that William was gay. Of course he is. William is everything. A real renaissance man. Good thing they cast such an appealing actor, he makes it all believable.

[Arcadiasw]

Please, please, please let us not see Olivia anymore. I hope the ending of the play meant no more Olivia. I like Kevin and Sloane so far. It is getting a little depressing seeing how often little Kevin is being ignored.  Sloane’s family were hilarious. Lots of good one liners in that family.

As soon as Rebecca said, “Nothing bad happens on Christmas Eve,” I knew something was going to happen. Of course I thought Major Dad would bite it and not Toby. Speaking of Toby, damn. I thought it was odd Toby was kind of out of breath when he came in the house and talking to Kate but it didn’t click. Did Kevin and Sloane leave before Toby collapsed? I didn’t see them in the room.

Did not see that coming with William! I had to rewind my DVR to make sure I heard right.  It’s good we got more insight into William having friends he had not seen since moving in with Randall (I wondered about that) and the fate of his cat. Randall’s reaction after his daughter outing William was hilarious!

Beth is usually tuned into Randall so I was surprised Beth didn’t pick up on Randall’s behavior that something was wrong. I understand she was upset about the boat but Randall’s behavior especially with him looking over the ledge calling out his coworker’s name should’ve alerted her something was wrong and to not ask about the boat.  I did laugh at her, “Don’t tell me to stop.”

[Packerbrewerbadger]

I have never cried during this show ( from posts sounds like I was in minority) but the tears flowed when Randall said that nothing bad happens on Xmas eve after taking down his coworker and flashing back to what Dr K said to him after he gave him the snow globe.

 

Show did fly tonight, didnt want it to end. 

[Johnny Dollar]

McPoyle!

Shut up Miguel. 

You best not kill Toby, show. 

[Amethyst]

33 minutes ago, bettername2come said:

That was so subtle with Toby having the aches and excessively breathless after sex as a precursor to the heart attack. Well played, show, well played. 

Good eye!  That was some smart foreshadowing.  

 

17 minutes ago, Jx223 said:

This was definitely a heavier episode than I expected. I was surprised to see Kevin and Sloane bickering in the beginning. But I thought it was interesting how they ended up at her family's home. I like Sloane and want to see her hang around more.

Same.  Sloane and Kevin are a better pair than Kevin and Olivia.  Whether or not Sloane actually gets involved with Kevin, she's a better character and I think they can do more with her.

[Arcadiasw]

50 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Wow. OK that was surprising.

I have to admit my first thought when Toby showed up was...man the board is going to be pissed. Now I feel bad. I didn't have the problems with Toby that others did but, I was OK with Kate focusing on herself.

Ha! I am one of them. When I saw Toby, my initial thoughts were, "Ah, hell." Then he collapsed, I was "WTH" Whatever happens with Toby, I think it will have a big effect on Kate and her weight loss going forward.

 

25 minutes ago, Jx223 said:

This was definitely a heavier episode than I expected.

I think this was the most balanced episode in a while. The last couple of shows were more Randall focus with Kate and Kevin being the subplots in a way and though I'm more invested in Randall's stories than the others, I really like tonight was very balanced for each sibling and William's story that they all got to shine.

[Jx223]

19 minutes ago, Arcadiasw said:

Ha! I am one of them. When I saw Toby, my initial thoughts were, "Ah, hell." Then he collapsed, I was "WTH" Whatever happens with Toby, I think it will have a big effect on Kate and her weight loss going forward.

 

I think this was the most balanced episode in a while. The last couple of shows were more Randall focus with Kate and Kevin being the subplots in a way and though I'm more invested in Randall's stories than the others, I really like tonight was very balanced for each sibling and William's story that they all got to shine.

I read an article today where the creator Dan Fogelman said that this episode was like several different acts and that each section was mostly going to focus on like one of the main characters and then tie them all together at the end. I was looking to see how they would do that and thought it was interesting how everything came together at the end.

I liked seeing how everyone was featured but I did feel this episode was heavier and darker than the previous episodes from this season. (With things like Randall's friend contemplating suicide,Kate admitting to dealing with depression, the strong tension between Kate and Rebecca and Toby collapsing at the end.) I thought this episode had a darker feel which helped lead up to ending.

Edited December 7, 2016 by Jx223

[Court]

This bears repeating: Sterling K. Brown is magic. How was I not aware of him before? 

I enjoyed seeing Rebecca and Kate interact more.

[pennben]

I liked the Rebecca/Kate scenes and wish we had more time with them. Especially the car scene: "Did I do this?"......"I don't know"...... and then, me:  "dammit Miguel, you ruin everything!:)"

Edited December 7, 2016 by pennben

[Jx223]

6 minutes ago, Court said:

This bears repeating: Sterling K. Brown is magic. How was I not aware of him before? 

I enjoyed seeing Rebecca and Kate interact more.

I liked seeing Rebecca express concern for Kate and seeing her try to get through to Kate. I think she really does love Kate,wants her to be happy and is sad that Kate isn't happy. She looked concerned when she found out Kate had been on Prozac and happy for Kate when Toby showed up. I also liked how she went with Kate when Kate was learning more details about what would happen after she got surgery.

It wouldn't surprise me if Rebecca insisted on going with Kate to learn more about the surgery. Kate was snippy towards Rebecca but I am glad that Rebecca seemed concerned about Kate's happiness and well-being. I hope they will eventually work out the issues between them and become closer.

Edited December 7, 2016 by Jx223

[Artsda]

Wow a lot happened there.

William's gay. Was not expecting that. 

Toby on his death bed right when he said he'd start eating healthy was not expecting either. 

Loved the family Christmas evening, well at least before Toby had a heart attack. Hope for Kate's sake the "nothing bad happens on Christmas Eve" sticks.

[methodwriter85]

Oh, thank god. I thought the doctor was going to confess on his death bed that Kyle is alive after all. See, this is what Brothers and Sisters did to me.

I really liked this episode. Everything clicked tonight for me.

[ShellSeeker]

OMG, the commercial breaks on this show drive me insane. I would not be able to watch it live. 

[MzLiz]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

I did love how Annie educated her father that granddad was gay or bi. Hilarious. I loved Beth's reaction. She is a star.

And Randall's reaction. Dear Jesus, I thought I was going to cry, I was laughing so hard. Beth and Randall are pure gold stars! The talent (and writing) in this show is amazing.

I thought this was one of the weakest episodes and it was still awesome. Beth, Randall, and Jack are the best characters. 

Poor Toby. I hope he doesn't die if for no other reason than Kate will think it's her fault he died. 

Good to see Gerald McRaney again. 

[Tiger]

I'm going to consider Olivia's dissapearance and Toby's death to bE the show's Channukkah and Christmas presents to me!

1 hour ago, ShortyMac said:

Beth for President.

She is so fucking awesome!  I wish my one-liners were half as amazing as hers.

[Lady Calypso]

Wow, what a powerful episode. So much happened and a lot was tied together.

First off, I'll just start off with Toby. I was not expecting him to be the emergency and the one that possibly is having his last Christmas. Now, the title should technically give away his fate, but it also might not. I never wanted the poor guy dead. I just wanted him to be less of an ass. I always thought that he had potential, unlike someone like Olivia. So for him to collapse? It actually tore at my heartstrings. His reunion with Kate was great, though. I really hope he pulls through, although I wonder why he was reunited with Kate NOW. Hopefully so they can find a way to work on their relationship. I'm not a huge fan of Toby, but I don't want Kate to be depressed and stop dieting/thinking about surgery because of his loss. 

The William part also surprised me in a good way. I love that Annie (I guess she's the older one) knew about William being gay or bi. That was pretty smart and quite a twist, even a minor one. I liked Jesse and William's interactions as well. This is the first episode where William had a solo plot, so that was nice. It gave a little more insight and let him be more than just the perfect saint. 

Rebecca/Kate. Well, that's something right there. That doctor's scene is so mother/daughter. I could practically see myself and my mother in a similar manner. Maybe not under those circumstances, but I feel like that was so realistic to watch.  It really sucks that Rebecca's "Nothing bad happens on Christmas Eve" now may be destroyed with the Toby thing. Even if he doesn't die, that's one more thing Kate might resent Rebecca for. Their car scene was equally as powerful. Those two have a long way to go. Also...I might have laughed at Miguel setting up the decorations at their place. 

Randall saving that guy from jumping was great. I think it'll lead Randall to forgive his mother faster. I know they have a bit to go, but his interactions in the past two episodes are speeding things along, which is good for a TV show. Instead of it taking years, this time around it could take a few weeks, if he hasn't forgiven her already. 

Kevin/Sloane? I love it so much. I really really hope that's the end of Olivia. Sloane fits better with Kevin and makes him happy. They just work better, and she fit in better with his family. Hopefully it's a sign that those two stick together. Maybe by the time the last episode was being written, the reviews about the show were already coming in and maybe Olivia's first appearance put people off. Or maybe this was their plan the entire time. 

The flashbacks were good too. Young Kevin is definitely the best of the child actors, although that's not putting the other two down. Young Kevin really emoted his sadness and worry for his sister. There was also a nice touch of Kevin holding his right side, so good job on whoever decided that. I loved seeing the different ways they dealt with it. But, of course, just another set of hints toward Kevin being the true outsider of the family. 

Hopefully, in the second half of the season, we'll get to see Young Kevin interacting with his parents more. Randall and even Kate are getting all these scenes with Jack and Rebecca but Kevin has not shared many solo scenes except for one with Jack in The Pool. 

A lot of solid moments that I can't even all mention in this one post. But I am hoping for Toby's survival, even though I have a really bad feeling that he will die, I'm hoping for more flashback scenes, I'm hoping for more Kevin with his family, I'm hoping Olivia's gone for good, and I'm hoping for good happy fun times with Randall and his family. 

[AuntiePam]

Great episode.  I was worried that it would end with Dr. K. dying and the snow globe crashing to the floor.  Glad the show avoids cliches (for the most part). 

I like that William's not perfect -- leaving Jesse, not telling him that he's sick, not letting him be part of his life at the end.  William might see it as a kindness but it's something that Jesse might not be able to forgive.  Nah -- he's still perfect. 

Again, Toby goes the extra mile for Kate -- 600 of 'em.  It's a bit presumptuous to barge in on a family Christmas but it's also brave.  He didn't know how Kate would react, or what she might have told the family about him.  I'd like for him not to be dead but I fear that he is.  My guess is that Kate won't go ahead with the surgery, that she'll give the diet another try. 

[MarkySnark]

To MzLiz, that was my thought exactly. Kate will think she sexed her boyfriend to death because this show believes that fat people should be shamed. If a box of cookies is opened, even though the family has two skinny boys who are just as likely to have opened it, it must be the fat girl that did it, even though her tummy hurts because of appendicitis. But mommy, who believes daddy is holding their parenting down to a nine, says fat girl has a tummy ache because of eating cookies while daddy, the one holding them back, mind you, actually feels her head and says she is warm. Perfect mommy just figures fatty ate too much. Then, when Kate is grown, mommy asks if she did this horrible thing to her. You know, made her fat. Would she be asking if she was at fault if Kate was thin and had some sort cancer? No, because apparently being fat is worse than having cancer. On this show, the skinny folks can do whatever they want. Sex it up with whomever is around (Kevin), eat brownies laced with pot (Beth and William), drink hallucinogenic smoothies (Randall), marry a dead spouse's best friend (Rebecca). But be overweight and have sex (Kate and Toby) and one of you is going to die. Nice message, show. And from all of us fatties out there, go fuck yourself.

[breezy424]

On a different note, I thought the episode was rather drawn out.

My impression was that Toby was dead.

In earlier episodes wasn't William talking about  Randall's mother being the love of his life....but he's really gay?  I'm having a hard time buying into it.

I really  liked dinner at Sloane's.  We got to see yet another side of Kevin, just like we got see another side of him at the hospital.  I also enjoyed Kate and her mother at the pre surgery and in the car.  We got a little insight into the tensions between them.

Most importantly, we found out what happened to William's cat.

[mojito]

Logistics, logistics. 

Where was this AA meeting? How did William know that Jesse would be there if William's been living in Pittsburgh?

Whose bed did Kate and Toby use? One of the girls' twin bed ? Beth and Randall's? 

Okay, none of that really matters, but I still wondered.

Nobody's badmouthed Miguel yet. That's a nice change.

Loved all the dialog at Sloane's.

[Court]

William's been living in NJ, not Pittsburgh. The meeting was the one William and Jesse regularly attended near his home. He specifically went there hoping to see Jesse. 

[Arcadiasw]

3 minutes ago, mojito said:

 

Nobody's badmouthed Miguel yet. That's a nice change.

I think we're all too shocked by Toby to bash Miguel. He gets a reprieve for now.;)

[Bluedog100]

Did not care for Kate, a guest in her brother's home on Christnas Eve, taking Toby upstairs for sex. Especially when we know from previous episodes the only true bedrooms are Randall and Beth's and the girls'.

[random chance]

16 minutes ago, MarkySnark said:

But be overweight and have sex (Kate and Toby) and one of you is going to die. Nice message, show. And from all of us fatties out there, go fuck yourself.

Until they say otherwise I am thinking it was one of those airplane blood clot situations. He mentioned being in the middle seat about a thousand times, so you know he wasn't moving around on the plane.

18 minutes ago, AuntiePam said:

 My guess is that Kate won't go ahead with the surgery, that she'll give the diet another try. 

Listening to all the nitpicky pain-in-the-ass and lifelong things she would have to do after the surgery, I thought to myself that a regular old diet and exercise regimen sounded like the much easier option. 

I love Randall to pieces.

I have got to say, I truly admire a show with the balls to throw tragedy into a Christmas episode. At first all their talk of "nothing bad happens on Christmas Eve" had me rolling my eyes (and also thinking, if this were real life, eventually that statement would bite you in the ass hard), and then they go and strike down Toby. I loved that. It's been the kind of year where I really don't want to watch a heartwarming cheery Christmas episode, so that was perfect, for me.

[Lady Calypso]

43 minutes ago, MarkySnark said:

To MzLiz, that was my thought exactly. Kate will think she sexed her boyfriend to death because this show believes that fat people should be shamed. If a box of cookies is opened, even though the family has two skinny boys who are just as likely to have opened it, it must be the fat girl that did it, even though her tummy hurts because of appendicitis. But mommy, who believes daddy is holding their parenting down to a nine, says fat girl has a tummy ache because of eating cookies while daddy, the one holding them back, mind you, actually feels her head and says she is warm. Perfect mommy just figures fatty ate too much. Then, when Kate is grown, mommy asks if she did this horrible thing to her. You know, made her fat. Would she be asking if she was at fault if Kate was thin and had some sort cancer? No, because apparently being fat is worse than having cancer. On this show, the skinny folks can do whatever they want. Sex it up with whomever is around (Kevin), eat brownies laced with pot (Beth and William), drink hallucinogenic smoothies (Randall), marry a dead spouse's best friend (Rebecca). But be overweight and have sex (Kate and Toby) and one of you is going to die. Nice message, show. And from all of us fatties out there, go fuck yourself.

And I think if Toby does die, the doctor will probably explain to Kate that it was some sort of blood clot or something that was happening before he even arrived at her house. It'll be a process for Kate, that's for sure, but it definitely isn't her fault and I think the show will make sure that the message is clear that it's not her fault. I do think they'll go the route that you're dreading, which is putting all the blame on Kate and her weight. It's not true, of course, but I think it's a journey that Kate will have to go through. I hate that it might end up being all about her weight again, but that's clearly the path they want to take Kate this season. 

I appreciate that they stay consistent with Rebecca/Kate, but I think their car scene was very telling. Rebecca was finally realizing that maybe her obsession with Kate's weight might have actually affected her self esteem. Even Kate couldn't deny that part of her issue was with how Rebecca treated her and her weight when she was a child. And hopefully it's not too late for either of them to fix and mend their broken relationship. It's all about learning and growing from mistakes. Rebecca made several mistakes that did end up affecting Kate as an adult. 

Personally, I think if Kate was abnormally skinny and Rebecca found out that Kate was anorexic all of her life, she would jump to the same conclusion that she was at fault. While cancer is not necessarily anyone's fault, except for maybe genetics. 

[buckboard]

Breezy424 wrote: "In earlier episodes wasn't William talking about  Randall's mother being the love of his life....but he's really gay?  I'm having a hard time buying into it."

Why?  If William is bisexual, he could have had serious relations with both men and women.  Heterosexuals can be in love more than once in a lifetime.  Why not a gay or bisexual person?

[Crs97]

If I saw a half-eaten box of cookies and one child was complaining of a stomach ache while the others were running around with no problems, I would assume achy child, no matter what his/her size is, ate too many cookies.  Sometimes mom-sense is just guesswork, but this show loves to have Rebecca be wrong.

Is no one else concerned that Randall literally had to talk a man off a ledge, and they just let him go?  I would not have assumed my chat worked so perfectly that I could let him go off on his own while I leave to celebrate Christmas.  

[ohjoy]

Almost everything I felt about this episode has already been mentioned, so I'll just add one thing:

Sufjan Stevens' Christmas music! I was listening to that song ("Only at Christmas Time") earlier today in fact. They used one of his songs in the pilot I think, so no surprise there, but yay anyway!

[DebbieM4]

45 minutes ago, MarkySnark said:

To MzLiz, that was my thought exactly. Kate will think she sexed her boyfriend to death because this show believes that fat people should be shamed. If a box of cookies is opened, even though the family has two skinny boys who are just as likely to have opened it, it must be the fat girl that did it, even though her tummy hurts because of appendicitis. But mommy, who believes daddy is holding their parenting down to a nine, says fat girl has a tummy ache because of eating cookies while daddy, the one holding them back, mind you, actually feels her head and says she is warm. Perfect mommy just figures fatty ate too much. Then, when Kate is grown, mommy asks if she did this horrible thing to her. You know, made her fat. Would she be asking if she was at fault if Kate was thin and had some sort cancer? No, because apparently being fat is worse than having cancer. On this show, the skinny folks can do whatever they want. Sex it up with whomever is around (Kevin), eat brownies laced with pot (Beth and William), drink hallucinogenic smoothies (Randall), marry a dead spouse's best friend (Rebecca). But be overweight and have sex (Kate and Toby) and one of you is going to die. Nice message, show. And from all of us fatties out there, go fuck yourself.

Rebecca's interactions with grown-up Kate just solidified my feelings about Rebecca being more concerned about herself than anyone else.  Kate was clearly having a tough time, and there was Rebecca, judging her about taking prozac, binging, etc, and making a difficult situation much more difficult overall.  And then - as highlighted above - she said ,"Did I do this to you?"  As if it were all about her!  And as if Kate's "condition" was such a horror.  I saw her as more judgmental than supportive.  Kate seemed not only irritated, but used to having her mother make her feel that way.  Rebecca was physically there with her, but I didn't detect any emotional closeness at all.

I would love if this show would give Kate more of an identity than simply being "the fat girl".   I know some overweight people who are okay with their weight, and others who are not.  But all of them have more to their lives than than what we're seeing here.  It's too many episodes in to still have her be so one-dimensional.  Not to mention that it's a waste of a beautiful and talented actress who is certainly capable of so much more.

[calliope1975]

Beth remains awesome!

I like Sloane and would like to keep her around. I hope she and Kevin can get her play financed. 

For a hot second, I thought Jimmi Simpson was a hallucination when Randall turned around and he was gone. Interesting insight into Randall. He buys stuff when he's depressed; has hysterical blindness when overly stressed. I find him fascinating. I loved Annie's matter of fact, "Grandpa's gay. Or bi," and Randall and Beth's reaction. It surprised me, but Denis O'Hare is an excellent addition to an already great cast. 

[OtterMommy]

So, I was convinced that William was going to die thanks to a post from the show's official FB page, posted 90 minutes before it aired on the west coast.  So, um, that was annoying (but I'm glad it was wrong....)

Wow, this show really has an issue with uninvited guests.  After Olivia and her entourage last week, we have Kevin bringing Sloane (but I'm okay with that because this straight Christian woman might just be a little bit in love with that Jewish girl....), William bringing Jesse, Toby just showing up...  At least Sloane told her family to expect Kevin, even if she hadn't yet told Kevin he was coming....

Oh, I noticed that Helen Hunt was the director for this ep..that's pretty cool!

I do really like Sloane and Kevin together--and I'm glad that the show clarified that the fact that they slept together didn't mean that they were a couple.  It does look like it is heading in that direction, and I appreciate that, if that is the case, the audience gets to come along with them.  But, man, I just know they are going to throw Olivia back in there.....ugh!

If there was one thing in this show that totally won me over, it was Randall's reaction to discovering that William and Jesse were in/had been in a relationship.  Actually, it was probably his daughter's, "Grandpa's gay....or at least bi" line.  But the fact that it all came down to Randall having a moment of surprise and then seeming to be happy that William had this person was just wonderful.

Toby...Toby...Toby.  Okay, so I was really uncomfortable with the whole thing of him just showing up at Randall's.  It was totally within his character--and it was what I don't like about his character.  He is pushy and he does disregard boundaries and that just drives me insane.  And, yeah, his speech was exactly what Kate wanted to hear...but I really wanted her to send him on his way.  I know I should feel bad about that the way the show ended, but, well, I'm not sure I do.

Along with uninvited guests, what is it with this show about having sex in other people's houses?  Admittedly, Kate and Toby getting it on in her brother's house....where they were not staying (and where were they doing the deed?  The daughters' room?  Randall and Beth's room?) was not as egregious as Olivia and Kevin's tryst in a complete stranger's house, on top of a pile of guests' coats, while the homeowner was mourning her husband that they were pretending to know, it was a bit....well, I'm not sure it's something that I'd be comfortable doing.

I think I figured out why older Rebecca doesn't quite work for me.  Mandy Moore doesn't age her voice at all.  My mother, and most people over about 60 I know, sound markedly different than they did 30 years ago.  Rebecca, however, sounds exactly the same.

All in all, this was another winning episode for me and I'm glad it didn't go the way I thought it would (And I do wish whoever runs the FB page would be a bit more mindful when posting on Tuesday nights....)

[OtterMommy]

3 hours ago, Amethyst said:

Dr. Folksy Charm lives!  They dropped that plot pretty quick, huh?  I also noticed that they didn't bring up Jack at all during the end celebration.

Well, to be fair, I think Dr. Folksy Charm is dead in the present day.  He'd be at least in his late 90s.  But at least he didn't die on Christmas.

[DebbieM4]

15 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

 

Is no one else concerned that Randall literally had to talk a man off a ledge, and they just let him go?  I would not have assumed my chat worked so perfectly that I could let him go off on his own while I leave to celebrate Christmas.  

I loved this episode, but that's the one thing that stood out to me as being odd.  It doesn't seem very Randall-like.  His speech was awesome, he was totally involved, and then he just moved on.  I thought the scene was great, but wish there had been at least a reference to some follow-up, even if it was just a throwaway line after a commercial break.  Brilliant acting by both of them, btw.

[OtterMommy]

2 hours ago, RogerDodger said:

He later said that the storyline ended with the characters engaged by the end of the second season.  I wondered if that was some foreshadowing there.

One can only hope!
 

On a unrelated note, the one thing I want to see in the show is more interaction between grown up Kate and Randall and Randall's family.  I get that Kate and Kevin are especially close and that Kate has mommy issues (although I'm not sure what she thinks of Miguel), but I can't get a read on Kate and Randall's relationship.  The only time they've interacted as adults (that we've seen), Kevin has been there.

I'm sure we'll get this in the future.  I'd just like to see it sooner rather than later.

[chocolatine]

Aw, Toby! Even though I really dislike him, he didn't deserve *that*.

So Kate didn't go back to LA between Thanksgiving and Christmas, and she's been planning to have the surgery on the East Coast, too? I feel like a scene has been cut where she made plans to move back to the East Coast. And has she been staying with Rebecca all that time? Awkward, considering their dynamic.

When Randall's coworker just disappeared from the balcony and Randall leaned over the railing calling his name, I was worried for a second that Randall would fall. So glad that didn't happen - I can deal with Toby potentially dying, but not Randall.

BTW, it was Tess who said the line about William being gay or bi, not Annie. Annie is the little one.

[catrox14]

So is Toby really most sincerely dead?

[OtterMommy]

4 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

So Kate didn't go back to LA between Thanksgiving and Christmas, and she's been planning to have the surgery on the East Coast, too? I feel like a scene has been cut where she made plans to move back to the East Coast. And has she been staying with Rebecca all that time? Awkward, considering their dynamic.

I'm not sure where else Kate would stay.  There is no room at the inn (the inn being Randall's house) and I don't think she has the money to stay for that long in a hotel.  I guess she could stay in Kevin's unused hotel suite....

[chocolatine]

6 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

I'm not sure where else Kate would stay.  There is no room at the inn (the inn being Randall's house) and I don't think she has the money to stay for that long in a hotel.  I guess she could stay in Kevin's unused hotel suite....

I wonder whether Rebecca offered/insisted that if Kate was going to have bariatric surgery, she do it on the East Coast and have Rebecca nurse her through it, which would explain why she went along to the pre-op appointment. Again, it seems like a scene containing that information has been cut.

[Armchair Critic]

See what all you Toby haters did? ;) I kid, I kid.

My favorite part was Randall's daughter telling him about the kid with 2 fathers and that grandpa was gay or bi. 

[OtterMommy]

Just now, chocolatine said:

I wonder whether Rebecca offered/insisted that if Kate was going to have bariatric surgery, she do it on the East Coast and have Rebecca nurse her through it, which would explain why she went along to the pre-op appointment. Again, it seems like a scene containing that information has been cut.

I agree.  It seemed strange to me that Rebecca came to that appointment.  It could have been that the clinic/office recommended/strongly encouraged patients to bring someone.  Kevin would have made more sense to me, but it looked like he was busy with his canceled play.

[wilnil]

11 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

I'm not sure where else Kate would stay.  There is no room at the inn (the inn being Randall's house) and I don't think she has the money to stay for that long in a hotel.  I guess she could stay in Kevin's unused hotel suite....

When Rebecca was driving Kate back after the pre-surgery appointment, Rebecca said something like "we'll have just enough time to change before we head to Randall's house." So it sounds like Kate is currently staying at Mom's house.

[breezy424]

Was that the longest Christmas Eve ever?  Beth and Randall went to a business dinner in the dark, apparently in NYC.  They then they come home and people show up, dinner was somehow prepared and then we have all this interaction after dinner?  Time for games too?  Amazing, at least to me...  Even with sundown around 4:30/5:00 in the East during this time, really?