S02.E10: Quid Pro Ho

[formerlyfreedom]

Charlotte is determined to get Lucifer to leave Earth by turning Chloe against him. Meanwhile, Amenadiel has begun working as Charlotte's soldier, which makes Maze question his loyalty.

 

[storyskip]

Wow, there was a lot in this one.

I have grown to enjoy this entire cast, I just want to say that and give Lauren Graham her due given how against Chloe I was in the beginning.   That said, I loved every character pairing in this episode except the Chloe and Lucifer stuff.  It was so poorly written fanfiction that I'm wondering if that was something deliberate on the part of the writers ... given the reveal at the end ... to make things awkward on the pairing.  I hope so because if it wasn't, it was just uncomfortable to watch.

Every other character match up?  GOLDEN.  EVERY SINGLE ONE

[gameoff]

Good episode.  I agree with storyskip, the character match ups were awesome.  Loved Dan and Maze being a team at the end.  Also, love the look of pride on Lucifer's face whenever he talks about Maze's ninja-demon skills.

Can't believe we have to wait until January for the next episode!!

[gwhh]

What kind of car does maze drive??

What mom said in the alley after she did not blow up Chloe was so funny.  

Edited December 3, 2016 by gwhh

[FormerMod-a1]

Guess we know for sure "Dad" is in the picture, saw all this coming, and made accommodations or prepped for it.   And we now know why Lucifer is different around her, at least why he loses his healing powers.  Or, do we?  I mean all signs point to this, but it doesn't have to be.  But "dad" made her for him to meet and connect with, I think.

Loved the Maze fight!

[ProudMary]

It's good to know that even Amenadiel, a celestial being, didn't immediately recognize  2016 Rebecca DeMornay from her early 80s self!
And bravo to the use of "In the Air Tonight!"


 

[maczero]

10 minutes ago, aquarian1 said:

Loved the Maze fight!

Really?  I thought it was poorly choreographed and was beyond cheesy.  I would've preferred if we didn't see the actual fight and it just ended with Maze tossing the guy through the wall.  

Other than the fight, I thought everything else was great.

[janeta]

Ok, so which car gor blown up?

[Gigi43]

Daniel! You've come far from season 1 but if you continue to keep it from Chloe you slept with Charlotte and she got info from him, that's steps backwards. I know it's an awkward conversation but still. Chloe would want to know. However that does help sell Chloe really appreciating Lucifer and his brutal honesty.

 

I have to rewatch Luci's testimony/reenactment as soon as i can. Though there were so many good things about this episode. Linda calling out fallen angels on their girl problems, Luci finding out about Dan and "Morlotte", Mazes delight. The ending though... was predictable. I'm sure there have already been fanfics with a close theory.

 

But, since Chloe was a "miracle" that means Trixie is by association so that explains her awesomeness. Btw, no episodes until January and the last two had to be trixie-less? Not cool.  Also I really need to know how Luci acts around Christmas time; does he boycott? Is he thrilled Santa stole some spotlight? Does he appreciate the music at all or lose it upon it coming on? Hopefully the break all December won't prevent the writers from going there. I'll watch Lucifer at Christmas any time of year.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Gigi43

[storyskip]

11 minutes ago, janeta said:

Ok, so which car gor blown up?

Amenadude's Jaguar.

[CheshireCat]

Lucifer killed Uriel to protect Chloe? Uh? What did I miss? Maybe some of that scene ended up on the cutting-room floor, however, if that's the case then they seem to have cut out relevant snippets of dialogue. As far as I'm concerned, Lucifer killed Uriel to protect their mother - he killed Uriel after he figured out that Uriel wanted to wipe Mom out of existence. I'm willing to give them that Lucifer was already on the edge since Uriel tried to kill Chloe and had gone rogue, still, it's the conversation about their mother and Uriel's planned use of the dagger which led to the killing.

Rant over. That just really bothered me ;-)

[Xenith22]

49 minutes ago, CheshireCat said:

Lucifer killed Uriel to protect Chloe? Uh? What did I miss? Maybe some of that scene ended up on the cutting-room floor, however, if that's the case then they seem to have cut out relevant snippets of dialogue. As far as I'm concerned, Lucifer killed Uriel to protect their mother - he killed Uriel after he figured out that Uriel wanted to wipe Mom out of existence. I'm willing to give them that Lucifer was already on the edge since Uriel tried to kill Chloe and had gone rogue, still, it's the conversation about their mother and Uriel's planned use of the dagger which led to the killing.

Rant over. That just really bothered me ;-)

The very last thing Uriel said before Lucifer stabbed him was "Because you made it so difficult, I'm going to take out mom and the detective."  So I guess technically Lucifer did it to protect Chloe in addition to his mother.  One could also maybe make a case that it was that final threat on Chloe which pushed Lucifer over the edge leading to him being desperate enough to fatally stab his brother?

Edited November 29, 2016 by Xenith22

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Well, for those who are very against Lucifer/Chloe as a romance, hopefully you can overlook it enough that it doesn't ruin a great show for you.

This episode was one of the best yet.  Only thing missing was Trixie.  [maybe they think they were getting away without showing her in the last two eps, leading into the holidays hiatus, by having big doses of adult!Trixie, I mean Ella]

Dr Linda slinging the wise truth just like she always does.

So, considering the ending, I'm guessing that when Mom says Chloe is the key to everything (IE, them getting back to the Silver City), Chloe will have to die a horribly painful death to make that happen.  So very cliched, but I don't see any other outcome pleasing Mom as much as she was.

And mini-rant time, how does Amenadude and Mom just automatically know, with no doubt, that "miracle baby" Chloe was meant for Lucifer and it was a grand orchestrated plan by God?  I mean, sure it all looks too perfectly lined up to be a coincidence, but Lucifer could have chosen anywhere to reside on Earth, but just happened to choose LA for his nesting spot.  Unless they are going with the "God sees and knows all (even 25-30 years into the future that is inside his Archangels' minds)" mantra, but c'mon, that's taking things a bit tooo far.

Edited November 29, 2016 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[Inquiry]

Quote

Lucifer killed Uriel to protect Chloe? Uh? What did I miss? Maybe some of that scene ended up on the cutting-room floor, however, if that's the case then they seem to have cut out relevant snippets of dialogue. As far as I'm concerned, Lucifer killed Uriel to protect their mother - he killed Uriel after he figured out that Uriel wanted to wipe Mom out of existence.

 

1

I can buy that Lucifer killed Uriel for Chloe. It's true that they began fighting when Uriel revealed he was planning on using Azrael's blade to kill Mom, but Lucifer didn't actually use the knife until Uriel literally had his finger hovering over the piano key that would kill Chloe when pressed. I mean, right before Uriel got the pointy end of a celestial blade he was telling Lucifer that he was going to kill Chloe because Lucifer had made things difficult. I honestly don't think Lucifer would have used the blade on Uriel if Chloe hadn't been in the equation. Hell, Lucifer's action was so surprising that even Uriel didn't foresee it. While Uriel threatening Mom with complete destruction certainly didn't help, I think it was the threat (immediate, at that) to Chloe that spurred Lucifer to such a drastic deed. Of course, mileage may vary.  

Or what Xenith22 said.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Inquiry

[Jack Kerouac]

7 minutes ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

And mini-rant time, how does Amenadude and Mom just automatically know, with no doubt, that "miracle baby" Chloe was meant for Lucifer and it was a grand orchestrated plan by God?  I mean, sure it all looks too perfectly lined up to be a coincidence, but Lucifer could have chosen anywhere to reside on Earth, but just happened to choose LA for his nesting spot.  Unless they are going with the "God sees and knows all (even 25-30 years into the future that is inside his Archangels' minds)" mantra, but c'mon, that's taking things a bit tooo far.

Well, if God is all knowing and all seeing, it makes sense. Maybe he sees time non-linearly?

[Bobbin]

Lucifer and Chloe. Luke and Leia?

[gwhh]

The Chinese gang part was the best!  Was that a triad gang or something else?  

 

Maybe Angel brother should have told Lucy and maze that mom got superpowers?!

 

PLOT HOLE:  how did maze know that bomb was under Chloe car?   Does she search Chloe car on a regular basics for bombs?  

Edited November 29, 2016 by gwhh

[CheshireCat]

18 minutes ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

Well, for those who are very against Lucifer/Chloe as a romance, hopefully you can overlook it enough that it doesn't ruin a great show for you.

I kind of saw it coming from the first episode on, so while I still don't see any chemistry and like them as friends, I've been prepared for it. And it seems to be part of the story, so I doubt we'll get a honeymoon ride off into the sunset within the next few episodes. I have a hard time imagining that Dad just did it to do something nice for Lucifer, so I'm curious and intrigued about Dad's endgame. Could it all be designed to get the family back together? Although, one has to wonder if Uriel getting taken out was part of the plan.

 

18 minutes ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

So, considering the ending, I'm guessing that when Mom says Chloe is the key to everything (IE, them getting back to the Silver City), Chloe will have to die a horribly painful death to make that happen.  So very cliched, but I don't see any other outcome pleasing Mom as much as she was.

And if Chloe dies then what? Returning home means back to Hell for Lucifer. At least, Lucifer thinks so, he's said it himself. So, I'm assuming he doesn't expect Chloe to go to Hell, so what motivation would he have to go back if Chloe died?

However, that just gave me an interesting thought - Amenadiel seems to be the fallen angel at the moment, Lucifer might be on a path of redemtion, Amenadiel is clearly caring a lot about Maze, a demon... Could the endgame be Amenadiel as the new and voluntary ruler of Hell because of Maze and Lucifer finding a home with Chloe, wherever that ends up being? (I'd kind of like to think it would be the Silver City, with Dad having done this for Mom as an apology and at the same time trying to make her see/learn that humanity isn't as bad)

18 minutes ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

And mini-rant time, how does Amenadude and Mom just automatically know, with no doubt, that "miracle baby" Chloe was meant for Lucifer and it was a grand orchestrated plan by God?  I mean, sure it all looks too perfectly lined up to be a coincidence, but Lucifer could have chosen anywhere to reside on Earth, but just happened to choose LA for his nesting spot.  Unless they are going with the "God sees and knows all (even 25-30 years into the future that is inside his Archangels' minds)" mantra, but c'mon, that's taking things a bit tooo far.

Is it? There are those who believe that our path is pre-set by God and that everything happens for a reason because of that path which was set by God.

And they do know the "old guy", so I don't find it that far fetched.

 

27 minutes ago, Xenith22 said:

The very last thing Uriel said before Lucifer stabbed him was "Because you made it so difficult, I'm going to take out mom and the detective."  So I guess technically Lucifer did it to protect Chloe in addition to his mother.  One could also maybe make a case that it was that final threat on Chloe which pushed Lucifer over the edge leading to him being desperate enough to fatally stab his brother?

I have to admit, I forgot about that. What stuck with me was that even though Uriel seemed to have come down to meddle with Chloe he appeared to have been after Mom more than Chloe.

So, I guess, we don't know if he wanted to protect one or the other or both which means it still bothers me how they put it especially since I would assume both Amenadiel and Charlotte knew why Uriel had brought the dagger and it seems like they forgot about the little side story of Mom and the dagger just because it was more convenient that way. I kind of feel that if they set it up differently, then they should stick to that and not ignore half of what they wrote. They wrote it after all. It's not like someone else did. I'll get over it though ;-)

[scarynikki12]

38 minutes ago, Jack Kerouac said:

Well, if God is all knowing and all seeing, it makes sense. Maybe he sees time non-linearly?

So he's a heptapod like in Arrival? 

[Sandman87]

Amenadude was shocked, shocked I tell you, to find out that "Dad" would have him bless a child to further a part of His plan! What did he think, that it was just for shits and giggles? "I was a pawn." Duh. That's pretty much your job description.

Emotional Jock Strap is gonna be my band name.

10 minutes ago, CheshireCat said:

There are those who believe that our path is pre-set by God and that everything happens for a reason because of that path which was set by God.

IIRC one popular theological hypothesis is "God knows whatever he wants to know whenever he wants to know it, but restrains himself from knowing everything to allow for mankind's free will."

[thuganomics85]

A lot of great interactions with all of the main cast.  I especially liked seeing Dan be more involved, and interacting with Maze again, which is one of those pairs that is always highly amusing.  Even Dan and Ella were fun in their scenes.  But the highlight was Lucifer finding out that Dan slept with "Mom."  It went about as well as expected.  I still remember when I found Dan kind of dull, but he really has grown on me this season.  Honestly, this entire group of characters as grown on me.  I kind of love every single one of them (except Charlotte/Mom, but she's pretty much the villain now, so I'm fine with that.)

Didn't predict that Mom's more "subtle" approach would be defending the Warden who killed Chloe's dad, and trying to use it to drive a wedge between Lucifer and her, by having her call Lucifer a liar, which likely would have really hurt him and their relationship.  Not surprised that she held strong though, even if the Warden got off.  While I still rather they not go down the romantic path, I really like the friendship and bond they have.  I thought Tom Ellis and Lauren German both did great in all of their scenes here.

Of course, the Warden's victory was extremely short!  Dan does not fuck around!  And I should have known Maze would be backing him on it.  Again, I'm kind of loving this duo.

Maze beating up a Chinese gang member is always a plus!

Ha!  Oh, Amenadiel!  You actually lucky that it was only your car that Maze blew up!  I did love that it led to him visiting Linda again.  I like that they are still using Linda well, after she got brought into the fold and now knows the truth.

So, the big reveal is that Amenadiel had actually been sent by "Dad" to bless a couple who couldn't have children to have one, and it ends up being... Chloe?!  So, she is part of Dad's plan, I guess?  But now it seems like Mom thinks they can use her as well.  I have no idea what to make of this.

Biggest disappointment is knowing we have to wait till next year.  This show went from being a pleasant surprise last season, to becoming one of my favorite shows on right now.  It's like the reverse of a sophomore slump.  I hope they keep it going!  Well, I do hope we get more Trixie in future episodes.  She hasn't been in this season as much, I think.

Edited November 29, 2016 by thuganomics85

[GaT]

When I grow up, I want to be Maze

"Easy peasy Chinesey" LOL

I loved how matter of fact Mom was about why she slept with Dan, but I am pretty much over her. I hope she's only around this season & then she's gone because I liked it better when the show was about crimes & not "what's mommy up to now?"

[Inquiry]

Quote

Amenadude was shocked, shocked I tell you, to find out that "Dad" would have him bless a child to further a part of His plan! What did he think, that it was just for shits and giggles? "I was a pawn." Duh. That's pretty much your job description.

 

1

Heh. Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. It's like, you used to pride yourself on being a pawn! However, I think what really kills Amenadiel is that he was a pawn in God's plan to give Lucifer something good. They haven't really delved into it much, but I think Amenadiel's always hated Lucifer for being the "favorite son." It's a title he feels Lucifer isn't worthy of and something he's owed. Now, it turns out, God used Amenadiel to create a miracle meant specifically for Lucifer.* Meaning God's plan always involved Lucifer leaving Hell. So, despite Lucifer's rebellious behavior and general contemptuous attitude towards Dad, He has still allowed Lucifer to keep his powers (except immortality when he's around Chloe), his wings (Lucifer was the one who decided to cut them off and light them ablaze), and, now, has apparently crafted a miracle so Lucifer can understand love/humanity. Meanwhile, Amenadiel has lost his wings and powers despite (in his eyes) being the "loyal son." And while I think Amenadiel knows he went astray, he also believes that his punishment is not commensurate with his crimes.  I don't know, I think Amenadiel thought God's plan for Lucifer was already done. That he was meant to rule Hell for eternity.  Even Lucifer needed Father Frank to even contemplate the idea that God's plan for him wasn't done. Despite the brothers beginning to mend fences a bit, the sibling rivalry is obviously still strong.

* And, honestly, both Charlotte and Amendadiel could be completely wrong about why God chose to have Amenadiel perform the miracle. However, I can totally buy that THEY would believe it was all about Lucifer. It would tie in with the theme that even celestial beings don't truly know God's desires/plan, but make choices based on the belief that they do.

TL'DR: Maybe it wasn't so much as Amenadiel being a pawn as it was Amenadiel being a pawn in furtherance of Lucifer.  

Edited November 29, 2016 by Inquiry

[Happy Harpy]

I'm halfway through the episode and I'm laughing my ass off. "You slept with my m..."

I love this show so much.

[NutMeg]

I never would have thought Lucifer would be such a feel good show. I love the characters, the actors, I laughed out loud a few times, this show is so great - and the second season is even better than the first. I just wish we didn't have to wait so long for the next episode.

Edited November 29, 2016 by NutMeg

[DEL901]

3 minutes ago, NutMeg said:

I never would have thought Lucifer would be such a feel good show. I love the characters, the actors, I laughed out loud a few times, this show is so great - and the second season is even better than the first. I just wished we didn't have to wait so long for the next episode.

I agree.  Especially loved Amenadiel sitting in Dr. Linda's office holding his steering wheel, Luci testifying they way only Luci can, Chloe unable to falsely call Luci a liar to save the case, Dan and Maze as a team.  Even Ella is growing on me.

[storyskip]

Something to maybe keep in mind, with all these questions flying around, even though the show has stepped away from a re-telling of the source material, it's always kept some of it's 'roots' in that mythology.

We've seen it in Season One with Father Frank and his belief that "Dad" has a Plan.  We heard Lucifer fire back "Yes, but why does everybody believe it's a good one??"  

Yahweh's Plan, capital P is what Lucifer has been rebelling against since the start.  In the pilot he told Amenadude he was done playing a part in Dad's play but that's the rub and ... it's actually a theme in the comics.

Spoiler

When we read about the rebellion, the war and Yahweh placing Lucifer in Hell, Yahweh apologizes to Lucifer that he can't give Lucifer the escape from pre-destination that Lucifer so desperately desires.  Yahweh gives Lucifer Hell as the singular point in creation (his creation) that he can offer as being the furthest from HIM.

But Lucifer can never truly be free, it's just not possible while in Yahweh's creation.  35 - 40 years in the future?  Of course Yahweh can see that far, it's a drop in the bucket to him, everything is to his design; THAT'S WHAT LUCIFER HAS BEEN FIGHTING SINCE THE START.  

Amenadude says that being sent down to bless Chloe's parents with a 'miracle' (he DID NOT bless Chloe, he blessed a childless couple to have a child) was a one time thing.  Yahweh had never requested it of him before or since, so I think it's safe to assume that Yahweh placed Chloe exactly where he wanted her for his grander Plan.

As for the romance angle, I'll admit I'm an anti-shipper so you can definitely take this as me grasping at straws but I agree with Bobbin that Luci and Chloe's sudden 'romance' in this episode is Luke and Leia -ish.  I think that's why it was written/played so awkwardly between the characters.  I don't think that Chloe is an angel or a "sister" in that respect but when Lucifer learns she is yet another manipulation by dear ole Dad he's not going to react well.

[dippydee]

I do so love this show. I can't believe it's become my favourite this season after all the times I scoffed at the the ridiculous promos last year about 'devil-cop'. The entire cast is great and great together in all their various combinations.

I think my favourite scene may have been the one with Amenidude and Dr Linda. I love how far she's come that she can sit there and calmly discuss a demon blowing up a fallen angels car like it's no big deal. Also Amenidude's bemused expression as he was holding the wheel was gold! Too bad he's joining mom instead of going back to Maze.

Maze was on point all episode too. I loved her baiting Det. Douche (Crouching Tiger Hidden Douche -bless you Lucifer) into admitting to sleeping with Charlotte and then working with him at the end. You always want Maze on your team. 

Im not really into a Lucifer/Chloe romance but it seems like we don't have a choice so I can deal with it. It certainly helps that all the other relationships are so good- so I hope the "romance" is limited to a couple of moments here and there and doesn't swallow the show.

[johntfs]

9 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

Lucifer killed Uriel to protect Chloe? Uh? What did I miss? Maybe some of that scene ended up on the cutting-room floor, however, if that's the case then they seem to have cut out relevant snippets of dialogue. As far as I'm concerned, Lucifer killed Uriel to protect their mother - he killed Uriel after he figured out that Uriel wanted to wipe Mom out of existence. I'm willing to give them that Lucifer was already on the edge since Uriel tried to kill Chloe and had gone rogue, still, it's the conversation about their mother and Uriel's planned use of the dagger which led to the killing.

Rant over. That just really bothered me ;-)

Lucifer fought Uriel to save their mother, but he only killed him after Uriel stated that he was going to start the chain of events that would kill Chloe and after beating Maze stated that he was going to kill Chloe anyway.

[retrograde]

"... my dad's killer... Nietzsche? No wait, your dad's killer." <- that was such a throwaway line I had to rewind.

[libraryone]

If any show begs for a Christmas episode, this one does.

The way they cut that last scene, I'm betting the implied kiss doesn't happen. It's too obvious a route to go, and the writers have been clever enough with how they've structured the show that I would be disappointed if they do go there. And once Lucifer finds out that Chloe has been placed in his path by Dad . . . well, he may not blame her, but he's too much of a rebel for that to go down easily. I think there will be fireworks that get in the way of any romance.

This is by far my favorite show on TV right now. The character interactions, the funny bits mixed with deeper emotional beats, the mix of visual humor (Amendiel holding the steering wheel) and verbal quips (and really, how many TV shows manage to work in a Nietzsche reference), the deeper questions about God and faith and divine plans--there's just so much more to this show than was suggested by the "Devil helps solve crimes" premise. I don't often re-watch episodes, but I have been re-watching these, and finding them just as enjoyable the second time around.

[Clawdette]

I could put Lucifer testifying on a loop and play it endlessly. Man, mid-January is a long way off

Edited November 29, 2016 by Clawdette

[melody16]

Loved this episode.  Not many shoes could balance all the different character interactions and stories in such a satisfying way.  It was a little choppy, but I enjoyed every minute of it.  I don't ship Chloe and Lucifer but I kind of like them.  I like how Chloe is such an independent female character who successfully balances a high-powered career and motherhood, but yet she is extremely warm and loving.  I really enjoy her characterization.  I like that she and Lucifer are on relatively equal footing even though he is the devil and all.  

Maze was amazing this episode, and Dan has really grown on me.  Dr. Linda and Amenadiel's scene was great.  But my favorite moment was  the short scene where Chloe's mom got in between Chloe and Charlotte and Chloe gave her a proud look.  Such a great little moment.  I trust this show not to make the Chloe miracle baby arc too cloying.  

[Inquiry]

2 hours ago, libraryone said:

And once Lucifer finds out that Chloe has been placed in his path by Dad . . . well, he may not blame her, but he's too much of a rebel for that to go down easily. I think there will be fireworks that get in the way of any romance.

 

 

I really hope that's where the writers are going with the Lucifer/Chloe storyline. I don't mind them being romantic, but I also don't want contrived obstacles to get in their way. Having Chloe be part of God's overall plan for Lucifer is a huge obstacle, but it doesn't feel contrived. From the first episode, Lucifer expressed concern/curiosity about Chloe being sent by his father. The series has shown that he's a strong advocate for free will, so there's a lot of great storytelling that could be told about Lucifer's inner conflict with predestination and free will. Did Lucifer's emotions come about naturally? Did Chloe's? Or were events, perhaps even Chloe herself, all manufactured by Dad to further his Grand Plan. As you said, Lucifer is rebellious by nature. Any whiff that his relationship was orchestrated by Dad might "taint" the relationship in his eyes. Then there's the fact that Chloe genuinely doesn't know/believe any of the celestial stuff. There's great potential there and it would elevate Lucifer and Chloe's relationship beyond "they're the male and female leads, they're OBVIOUSLY going to get together after a bunch of absurd obstacles." 

Edited November 29, 2016 by Inquiry

[CheshireCat]

12 hours ago, Inquiry said:

Heh. Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. It's like, you used to pride yourself on being a pawn! However, I think what really kills Amenadiel is that he was a pawn in God's plan to give Lucifer something good. They haven't really delved into it much, but I think Amenadiel's always hated Lucifer for being the "favorite son." It's a title he feels Lucifer isn't worthy of and something he's owed.

I don't know about Amenadiel hating Lucifer or that he feels Lucifer isn't worthy of being the favorite son. I think it's normal for siblings to be jealous of those they know or perceive to be the favorite.

What I liked about it is that Dad seems to have a plan for Lucifer. I'm still wondering if Mom really was the one arguing for Lucifer to be put in Hell. It kind of doesn't fit with the revelation that Chloe was put into Lucifer's path. Unless, Dad knew that Mom would do anything to spare her son's life.

Either way, and maybe it's wishful thinking, but it kind of sounds like Dad knew from the start (or for a long time) that Lucifer has a certain potential and that Dad thinks a lot more of Lucifer than Lucifer himself.

 

1 hour ago, libraryone said:

If any show begs for a Christmas episode, this one does.

The way they cut that last scene, I'm betting the implied kiss doesn't happen.

Yeah, I thought the same about a Christmas episode. We already got the Halloween one, so a Christmas one would be nice. Wonder if they'll do a Valentine's Day episode. Can't just see Maze being all eye-rolling about it? (And speaking of Maze - so much for not working for Lucifer anymore. They clearly fall back into their old habit of Lord of Hell and head demon at times. (Can't say that I mind though)).

I agree about the kiss. I doubt it'll happen. In true Hollywood fashion they'll probably get interrupted by Maze or a phone call or something. At the same time, it might actually happen because I don't think getting them together is what the story is. There's the fact that Chloe still doesn't believe Lucifer is the Devil, there's the fact that Lucifer would have to deal with Chloe while knowing she doesn't accept who he is, there's the fact that Chloe is a miracle child (I wonder if she's aware of that). Then there's Mom and her desire to go back home and Dad's plan. So, I think there's plenty of story and getting them together would just be another peece of the puzzle. Contrary to other shows, it would actually be just a means to an end for this show, just a part of the story and not the story as the show's purpose doesn't seem to be a romance story.

Either way, I think that an almost kiss and an actual kiss would actually mean almost the same for the show in regards to how they'd go on/could go on.

[paulusar]

Why do Americans think that the devil is British?

[tennisgurl]

Really fun episode, and I am SO sad that we have to wait so long for more. Yes, it has little to do with the actual comic its based on (and I would one day like to see a more faithful adaptation, on a cable network that will let them do whatever), but this show has really grown on me. It might not be the existential multiverse hoping story from the comics, and the idea itself is still kind of lame in theory, but in practice, its working out pretty well. 

I really like how they are mixing the character pairings up more, especially with Dan getting more integrated into the cast, and Dr. Linda being in on the heaven/hell stuff. The ending with Maz and Dan was awesome. I probably shouldn't be so happy to see a guy getting dragged off the street to be killed by the Russian mob, but...

Also, Maz and Lucifer should clearly speak more languages. Sexy ;) 

Its good to know that Chloe is actually not just awesome because, but because she is part of some kind of plan. Is that why she and Lucifer have gotten pulled together? I will say, Chloe has gotten better, but she is still probably the weakest character on the show. I do like her, but she is just my least favorite. And I still see zero romantic chemistry between her and Lucifer. I see friends, but thats it. 

8 hours ago, paulusar said:

Why do Americans think that the devil is British?

Because the British accent is widely considered about a million times sexier than any American accent :) 

Edited November 30, 2016 by tennisgurl

[Rosiejuliemom]

May I just say how lovely it was to see Sharif Atkins on my screen again?  It is always nice to see him not being blown up by a roadside bomb.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Rosiejuliemom

[janeta]

16 hours ago, storyskip said:

Amenadude's Jaguar.

Ah, thanks.  I was thinking it would be good if it was his car, i just didn't remember him having one. 

16 hours ago, storyskip said:

Amenadude's Jaguar.

Ah, thanks.  I was thinking it would be good if it was his car, i just didn't remember him having one. 

[xtwheeler]

When Chloe's mom is talking about having to go through the trial of the man who killed her husband for a second time, and Lucifer replied, "maybe it is like butt stuff -- easier the second time?" I nearly fell over dead laughing.  It was one of those lines where my brain refused to accept that he had actually said that for like 30 seconds until I gave in and rewound.  Yup, Lucifer just casually referred to "butt stuff" on network TV.  Is this a great time to be alive or what?!

Also had to pause for extended hysterical laughing at the Nietzche line, but I'm not sure anything will compare to the "butt stuff" line. OMG I love this show beyond all reason.  Perfect mix of high- and low-brow, serious, dirty, sacred and profane, justice, Nietzche and butt stuff.

Edited November 29, 2016 by xtwheeler

[monakane]

50 minutes ago, paulusar said:

Why do Americans think that the devil is British?

I thought he was Al Pacino.

[Eneya]

Spoiler.
References towards the comics.
 

Spoiler

In the comics, Yahwe KNOWS and expects rebellion. He WANTS it and was disappointed that ONLY Lucifer rised to the occasion. Of course, when that is revealed, the loyal sons don't like it much. So... miracle child, Chloe may very well BE Ellie from the comics (or... you know, Elle maybe Ellie from the comics, who takes over as God.

1

[CheshireCat]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

 

Because the British accent is widely considered about a million times sexier than any American accent :) 

Also, due to the aristocracy, I think British are often considered more gentleman-ly than Americans and I think Lucifer is supposed to be a dignified gentleman (even if a Playboy). He does have James Bond or John Steed character traits and both were/are distinguished, gentlemen and appreciative of the opposite sex.

I think it works.

(The question is though if he's truly supposed to be British. Considering that he said he speaks everything, maybe it's just the accent he's (supposed to have) chosen)

[Cyranetta]

It's not just the lines, but the line deliveries are a joy. Lucifer's "butt stuff' aside to Chloe's mom was so matter-of-fact and not a leering come-on.

The one thing about Chloe being a blessing by God to the infertile couple could mean a quite a complication for any relationship between Luci and Chloe, since "dear old Dad" could possibly be seen as at least partially Chloe's father as well (or maybe Amenedude), throwing in an uncomfortable element of incest.

[libraryone]

2 hours ago, paulusar said:

Why do Americans think that the devil is British?

 

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Because the British accent is widely considered about a million times sexier than any American accent :) 

 

1 hour ago, CheshireCat said:

Also, due to the aristocracy, I think British are often considered more gentleman-ly than Americans and I think Lucifer is supposed to be a dignified gentleman (even if a Playboy). He does have James Bond or John Steed character traits and both were/are distinguished, gentlemen and appreciative of the opposite sex.

(The question is though if he's truly supposed to be British. Considering that he said he speaks everything, maybe it's just the accent he's (supposed to have) chosen)

Sexy and classy, yes. Also, why should the Devil have a boring American accent? He would definitely want to stand out in LA!

[theatremouse]

6 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I can't believe that the writers went there with this episode, in regards to how Chloe came to be.  That is a direction I hoped that the writers would stay away from. 

I thought it was pretty much the most boring, obvious explanation for "why is Chloe special" they could have gone with, so I'm not excited about it.

[Bobbin]

2 hours ago, xtwheeler said:

OMG I love this show beyond all reason.  Perfect mix of high- and low-brow, serious, dirty, sacred and profane, justice, Nietzche and butt stuff.

Ditto on all counts!

Lucifer and Chloe. Luke and Leia? "Miracle baby" Chloe's father is, according to Amenadiel, "Dad" himself, making Lucifer and Chloe half-siblings. So where will this lead? "Star Wars" or "Devil's Advocate"? Tune in .... next year!

[lorbeer]

14 minutes ago, Bobbin said:

Lucifer and Chloe. Luke and Leia? "Miracle baby" Chloe's father is, according to Amenadiel, "Dad" himself, making Lucifer and Chloe half-siblings.

Is that what it was? I thought he just gave his special blessing but perhaps I misunderstood.. So let's say that Chloes it's God's daughter somehow, so.. is it virgin Mary situation? :D (except for that Chloe's mother is totally not a virgin)

[seveneightnine]

Again, again, again. So amazing! Loving everything, except the almost kiss. Not sure I want things to lead that direction. When will TV learn that not all male and female leads need to be romantically involved? They could be great friends! If it turns into a Luke and Leia thing that would almost be better in my opinion. What does Mom want to do with Chloe to get home? Kidnap and threaten, trick them into kissing? What endgame does she think is the key?

Loved the Nietzche and "butt stuff" lines, had to rewind for both of them because we were laughing so hard. My favorite had to be "You slept with my Mo..Marlotte?!?" What is a Marlotte anyway?

So Lucifer can't lie or won't lie? But Amenadiel has no problem lying (badly) all the time? Interesting difference.

Poor Dan, he got used. At least he got some good sex out of it... (??)

[Happy Harpy]

Maze channeling Morpheus was the most "Lucifer" moment of the episode for me. The combination of pop culture references and Embrace the Camp policy make the show some kind of Tarantino for Network TV at this point (yes, I dare, at least in this respect). And how I love it.

I thought that the warden case had wrapped  up a little too fast, and here it pops up again and finds a more complete conclusion. And again, actions have consequences. Chloe let her emotions take the better of her, she made a mistake, and it came back to her like a boomerang. Moreover, she admitted that she made a mistake instead of blaming everyone but herself. Once more, kudos to the writers for not neglecting such important points. It creates coherence and makes the characters mature adults and more likeable.

I usually find public declarations of love cringe-worthy but Chloe and Lucifer on the stand were both perfect. It was beautiful, really, to see those two show how they value each other, each other's integrity, and express their mutual respect, trust, and admiration. It was Love, capital L, and although the last scene established clearly that romance is part of it, it's only one aspect. It goes way beyond this. If I didn't hate the "S" word so much, I'd use it here. L.German and T.Ellis simply slayed it. 

I agree, they will not kiss. But Lucifer showing up for a dinner redux kind of reassured me. Tentatively. I'm more optimistic about no will they-won't they, at least about no stupid soapy drama thrown into the mix *jinx*. Surprise me in a good way, writers! I was badly burned so often, sigh.

You know when a show has a stellar cast when you can't name a MVP; moreover this episode was cast integration at its finest. I tremendously enjoyed all the interactions not involving the two leads, too: Amenadiel and Linda, Dan and Maze, Ella and Dan etc. There is no regular character that I don't like.

I loved how the writers integrated Dan in particular in the span of a couple of episodes. They didn't forget that he wasn't Mr.Legality, either.

"She won't kill Chloe on my watch," awww, Maze, I love you so much now. She's so great at tough love and her glee re:Dan and Charlotte was appropriately devilish.

Amenadiel, you idiot! I knew that Maze didn't fall for his "lies", that weren't lies of course. But she needs to kick his ass back because the Good Son is taking a wrong path following Mom's Louboutin-steps. Still rooting for this Heaven and Hell match.

I love to "hate" Charlotte, she's an entertaining villain because she's so candidly bad, imo. It also helps a LOT that she doesn't win all the time, she isn't a Ramsay Bolton or a Negan, if you see what I mean. Maybe it was the deal thing but I thought a couple of times that she truly was Lucifer's mom. T.Helfer's face falling when Chloe didn't lie about Lucifer was hilarious, as well as her coughing when Chloe mentioned the "devil" on the stand.

I'm glad that Linda feels comfortable enough with Lucifer again to send to his face that he chickened out. And Ella's faux Sherlock Holmes number was sweet and funny.

I can't count the number of times I laughed out loud, so I'm going to stop at Amenadiel holding his steering wheel on the couch.

1 hour ago, lorbeer said:

Is that what it was? I thought he just gave his special blessing but perhaps I misunderstood..

This is what I understood, too. God asked Amenadiel to bless the couple, he didn't "bless the mother" himself Zeus style, did he?

And of course: Where was Trixie?

I'll look forward to a Christmas episode in S3 and before that, to the show being back from hiatus...for three weeks only?

Edited November 30, 2016 by Happy Harpy
Not sure of a term (non-native speaker).