S07.E04: Service

[Madding crowd]

Nothing in the Negan storyline is quite making sense to me. As far as Rick and his 'shocking' confession re Judith: Rick has always known Judith may not be his, but he doesn't know for sure she is Shane's daughter either. And considering that people like Maggie, Glen, Michonne etc are part of Rick's family, what difference does it make? And it makes zero sense to me for Rick to say he has to insist Judith isn't really his in order to stay alive for her-WTH?

I still don't understand Negan's goals here besides making funny old timey puns. He takes away their guns, they obviously don't grow anything, he doesn't want their houses, yet he wants them to provide some mysterious thing each month. Why wouldn't he just kill them all and take over Alexandria? And I still don't see why someone doesn't just take him out. Hell, CDB could take all of them out and close the gates and keep shooting. And since they knew Negan would be coming, why not hide the gun register and hide some extra of everything-he wouldn't know! Also, since he is taking all of their medicine and guns, how can he be sure they will be alive to produce? So much doesn't make sense to me.

I didn't know they were mattresses either until someone pointed them out. 

[Mr. R0b0t]

I thought for sure Negan was going to insist they dig Maggie up just to psychologically eff with them even more.  

[maczero]

27 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

I refuse to believe they took every single mattress in town.

 

ASZ isn't a town.  It's just a subdivision.  From the looks of it, I doubt it's more than thirty houses. 

6 minutes ago, HighMaintenance said:

OMG!  So the Saviors would rather burn the mattresses than sleep on something comfortable??  They would rather sleep on cots than memory foam?? Wha the hell??  (Honestly, I had to watch TWD to figure out what Michonne was looking at at the end of the episode.  I thought, "are those big slabs of concrete?  Are they part of a bus stop?  WTF is that?"

OK, I have to give Negan some credit. Why, why why is there ANYONE overweight/fat/obese/chubby/fluffy/rotund in the ZA?  WHY?  18-24 months of minimal food, running from the undead. Not a single pasta machine in sight!   I am sorry, but that shit do not fly.  OK, I said it.  Slap me if you have to,  but FAT people should NOT exist in the ZA.  That is just BULLSHIT.  I have to side with Negan.  You put the fattest person in town in charge of FOOD??!!!  WTF is wrong with you damn people?? Where are our supplies going? I dunno, ask Olivia!  Bitch, she eatin' it all when you sleeping!

I felt sorry for Michonne who is level 99 on katana, but now has to start off on level 1 on firearms.  You should have been practicing when you needed faction with Woodbury.  Sorry gurl, but its true.

I'm not sure why Negan's people would rather burn the mattresses than use them.

So wrong what you said about Olivia but I gotta admit it's funny.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Replay value of this episode, ZERO!

[mightysparrow]

6 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

Nothing in the Negan storyline is quite making sense to me. As far as Rick and his 'shocking' confession re Judith: Rick has always known Judith may not be his, but he doesn't know for sure she is Shane's daughter either. And considering that people like Maggie, Glen, Michonne etc are part of Rick's family, what difference does it make? And it makes zero sense to me for Rick to say he has to insist Judith isn't really his in order to stay alive for her-WTH?

I have a feeling that Rick was using the Judith confession as a way of playing on Michonne's sympathies.  He knows she has a soft spot for the kids, so he tells this sob-story at the moment when Michonne is just about done with him.

[jvr]

3 minutes ago, lmsweb said:

Maggie went to Hilltop, with Sasha. Which begs the question - why didn't Negan ask where Sasha was, since she was there when he Lucille'd Abe and Glenn.

Michonne was missing as well and he didn't question it. We didn't see Negan counting off heads or concerned about who was or wasn't there. He only mentioned Maggie because she was obviously having problems ("sick", does he know she is pregnant?) and was the reason they were on the road in the first place to be ambushed. Also she had the strongest reaction out there during the killings (re Glenn, he didn't really need her reaction since Glenn's dying moments were directed at her), he noticed that since he mentioned her being a widow now.

I'm scared Negan isn't going to die this season. The finale will be the groups all coming together and we will have to suffer through the entirety of next season trying to kill him...wouldn't put it past them dragging it on for 3 seasons. :(

Regarding Michonne's shooting, have we ever seen her shooting any long range guns? I think she has been show to be good with a pistol. Her being upset might have factored into her inaccuracy as well. As long as Sasha is around she doesn't need be a long range sharpshooter but it wouldn't hurt to take lessons from her.

I hope Rick has a real plan and he starts letting people in on it.

[allyw]

With the exception of Negan's blabbering, I really liked the episode. And I agree that Rick isn't neutered because right now from his pov: they're outnumbered, one of TF members was killed because another one, who's also now been kidnapped, acted liked an impulsive child plus he was almost forced to chop off his child's hand. I believe Rick will become more proactive once he sees an opportunity to destroy Negan and that's being smart.

[MostlyContent]

It's going to be interesting to find out how Alexandria and the Hilltop find out about the Kingdom, and visa versa.  

Maybe Tara and Heath will run across the Kingdom (and Carol and Morgan) during their travels.   

Perhaps it will get intriguing again after that point (I hope).  

[TWOPrefugee]

I may have the answer to why Michonne couldn't hit the zombie with her rifle. Somebody please double check this but I believe the scope was mounted backwards. 

[RedheadZombie]

Nice to see Rosita getting some good material.  I hope she kicks Spencer out of her bed. 

I don't like Spencer, I think he's a weasel.  But as far as he's concerned, before Rick's gang arrived he had two parents, a brother, and a thriving community.  He's realizing what Hershel did:  you people are the plague.

I just don't believe that Negan was attracted to Maggie.  LC is a beautiful woman, but Maggie was not at this time.  In fact, when the season opened with all of them kneeling, I actually thought - who the hell is that man?  It took me a moment to figure it out.  And there were Sasha, Michonne, and Rosita kneeling at his feet, who weren't on death's door.

Did anyone find it strange that Negan politely allowed Rick's gang to have a private meeting?  They could have been plotting, or getting their stories in line.  But nope.   They were absolutely unprepared because Negan showed up early.  So they were going to wait the full week before figuring out how to hide the medicine, food, guns and ammunition, and doctor the books.  There is so much drama built into the ZA, and I hate when they write the characters stupid.  And Rick had the nerve to whine that they came early.  It's unbelievable.

And Rick had so many options to explain away who hid the guns.  He could blame it on Reg, Deanna, their dead son, Glenn, Abraham.  How is Rick so bad at this?  And he had several minutes to come up with a story.

37 minutes ago, Timetoread said:

One more before bedtime.  Rick is not neutered or beaten down or any of that. Rosita and Michonne and Carl can show attitude because Negan isn't interested in breaking them.  If Rick gave a bunch of lip, Carl's arm would be back on the chopping block.  Maybe the baby as well.  What is OOC is Michonne for me.  She was in that clearing.  She saw what Negan did to Rick and WHY he did it.  Why is she acting confused?   Part of being an effective warrior is knowing that sometimes you have to lose the battle to win the war.  Sometimes you have to cede to the strength of your opponent.  If you are walking in the woods and encounter a grizzly bear, it won't matter how tough you are or if you're a fifth degree black belt, the bear will win.  Your best shot is to play dead so that it doesn't see you as a threat.  Fuck being a tough guy - live.

I was pretty irritated with the attitude Michonne, Rosita, and Carl gave to Negan.  It's been less than a week, and they've somehow forgotten what happened.   They were shaking, sweating, and sobbing days ago they were so terrified.  And yet only Eugene has a believable reaction.  I know if I had gone through what they did, one look from Negan and I'd be submissively peeing myself.  Even Rick wasn't sufficiently humble.  The stare downs, the pauses before answering Negan's questions.  And then asking for Daryl.  I'm sure Daryl is going to pay the price for that.

13 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

Nothing in the Negan storyline is quite making sense to me. As far as Rick and his 'shocking' confession re Judith: Rick has always known Judith may not be his, but he doesn't know for sure she is Shane's daughter either. And considering that people like Maggie, Glen, Michonne etc are part of Rick's family, what difference does it make? And it makes zero sense to me for Rick to say he has to insist Judith isn't really his in order to stay alive for her-WTH?

It was worse than that.  Rick said he had to accept that Judith wasn't his daughter so he could "keep her alive".  WTF?  The simple fact that she's Carl's sister wasn't enough?  How about the child of the woman you loved?  How about the fact that she's the daughter of your "best friend".  Did he forget that Shane kept Carl alive in the beginning?  How about the fact that she's a helpless baby?  We saw Tyreese, Carol, Maggie, Daryl, and Michonne risk their own lives to save Judith.  They're not her fucking biological parent.  Oh, this really angered me.

[jvr]

6 minutes ago, allyw said:

With the exception of Negan's blabbering, I really liked the episode. And I agree that Rick isn't neutered because right now from his pov: they're outnumbered, one of TF members was killed because another one, who's also now been kidnapped, acted liked an impulsive child plus he was almost forced to chop off his child's hand. I believe Rick will become more proactive once he sees an opportunity to destroy Negan and that's being smart.

I don't think Rick is being smart at all, he might not be completely neutered and might come to his senses and come up with a plan at some point but right now he has fucked them. When they were on the road on their knees, yes, do as they say and be their bitch...but now you are back home with the rest of your group, able to regroup...they should have been ready for a fight. Or at least have been stashing stuff for later.

Being behind the walls of Alexandria with all that gunpower...they could have blown Negan's group to bits when they rolled up to the gates. Rained bullets and rpgs down on their asses. They had a fighting chance even while being outnumbered but now they are outnumber and outgunned...they are in an impossible situation now. I hope Rick knows wtf he is doing.

[maczero]

15 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

I still don't understand Negan's goals here besides making funny old timey puns. He takes away their guns, they obviously don't grow anything, he doesn't want their houses, yet he wants them to provide some mysterious thing each month. Why wouldn't he just kill them all and take over Alexandria?

Neegan is running an extortion racket.  If his victims can't grow or make it, then he expects them to steal or scavenge their offering.  This is why Jesus tried to steal the truck of food that Rick and Daryl found last season.  He was stealing the truck to offer to Neenah.

As for killing Rick's group and taking over Alexandria, why?  Neegan's already pressed them into working for him.  He's taken their weapons and he believes he's broken their spirits so the threat of retaliation is minimal.   And honestly Alexandria doesn't hold any real value besides the wall.  I mean the houses are nice but in the apocalypse I'd rather live in something built like a bunker.

[bobbyjoe]

I just wish Michonne had stood there at the end and did her best "Steve Martin in The Jerk" impression and been like:  "he hates these mattresses!"

And the she'd gone back to Rick and said "Rick, Rick, I figured out Negan!  He hates mattresses!"

[Decoda]

Can we get the date of this ep corrected? I confusing in titles. 2016.11.13 not 2016.11.03

[MVFrostsMyPie]

Listening to Negan talk has become as unbearable as hearing a certain orange butthole talk. 

We feel your pain, Alexandria. 

[TWOPrefugee]

28 minutes ago, TWOPrefugee said:

I may have the answer to why Michonne couldn't hit the zombie with her rifle. Somebody please double check this but I believe the scope was mounted backwards. 

Nope. Never mind.  Upon second and closer examination, the scope is good. She's just a bad shot.

[Giselle]

Forty minutes of Negan a character who will never shut the fuck up.

For the first time ever I turned the channel. Didn't care. You all enjoy.

[looksee]

1 hour ago, MrsRafaelBarba said:

Replay value of this episode, ZERO!

I deleted immediately after, which I've done for every episode this season.

Edited to add: SHUT UP NEGAN!

Edited November 14, 2016 by looksee

[BloatedGuppy]

Well, this is the Walking Dead I remember. As in, not a very good show, liberally riddled with credulity gaps and suffering from pacing problems.

• I said last week that Negan's tireless bullying would need toning down if the character was to stay above the suspension of disbelief line, but here we are. Too much iron fist, not enough velvet glove. Furthermore, he makes it abundantly evident that he's fucking with them just to fuck with them...because he thinks it's funny. You can't sell the "Win/Win" lie when you're busy rubbing shit in everyone's face at every possible opportunity. Cartoon evil.
• By the same token, Dwight rolled back 90% of the character progress we made last week, also pointlessly bullying. Lol, poured out your water! To what end, exactly? Who does that benefit? You guys established your alpha-primacy back when you left two core cast members with their brains leaking out. This petty nonsense makes no sense. It's ridiculous mustache twirling meant to pique the audience, and it couldn't be more transparent.
• Episode was draggy. Took a lot of time to cover very little ground. I like a slow moving episode, but slow moving episodes should usually be acting or character set-pieces, or busy themselves exploring powerful themes. This was just doubling down on the "Negan Bad/Heroes Humbled" beats we got in the first and third episodes. Walking Dead has long suffered from these aimless mid-season wheel spinning episodes, and this is no different.
• As was rightly pointed out above and evident to anyone with eyes, Negan and his patrol could have easily rolled up into a hail of bullets and it would have been the quickest plot resolution of all time. Those guys have (had) a ridiculous shitload of guns. Yes, they have Daryl, but it's abundantly evident that the murder/exploitation parade isn't going to end any time soon. The Saviors have numbers, but they are CLEARLY a cult of personality, and they're not numberless. That only a tiny handful of people seemed to even conceive of fighting...or hiding guns...was implausible.
• Speaking of fighting, Chandler Riggs still can't act. I want to love dead-eye Carl, but the performance is so relentlessly wooden he just murders every scene he's in. And his hair is ludicrous. It looks like a wig.
• Saving grace of the episode was Lincoln, who got to put on another acting seminar. Guy got to ride an emotional rollercoaster and did a bang up job of it. Would have been a passable "Let's examine Rick's ongoing mental breakdown" episode if it had been 45 minutes long and not an hour and a half.
• They need to start ramping up towards the inevitable conflict soon. They've been guilty of rushing plot lines before (the Hospital leaps to mind, although it was somehow both rushed and pointlessly elongated at the same time) but audience appetite for watching Negan smarm around for episode after episode while the heroes mope and weep is not going to be high. If nothing else, new conflicts need to be established, and pronto.
• Westworld is serving ably as the post Walking-Dead palate cleanser now that Mad Men is over. Check it out!

[gatopretoNYC]

Uggh. I'm begrudgingly half-watching this re-air now as my husband is watching  it. We're 20 minutes in, and I'm sick to death already of Needygan.

Westworld is blowing this shit away. 

[Nashville]

2 hours ago, mightysparrow said:

That did NOT need to be 90 minutes long.

Sure it did.  Negan was talking.  That's an extra 20+ minutes right there.
 

Swear to god - you GOTTA figure SOMEBODY at some point is going to decide sliding a bullet into Negan's brainpan would be worth the risk, just for the chance of shutting up the monologues and general douchebaggery.

Edited November 14, 2016 by Nashville

[The Mighty Peanut]

I am not going to rage quit, but for the love of Pete WHY was this 90 minutes? Of all the episodes...this one? Really? Seriously? If I recall Negan came to get the guns and medicine in the beginning and was a dick about it, and took the guns and medicine in the end and and was a dick about it. And talked the whole....time...between. "Hahaha I'm a dick. Hold my bat. Here's Daryl. Here's a trite maxim I made up right now to further demonstrate my utter domination. Get it?  If you don't I'll say it 47 more times. Here's another. Hey boo, check these dope nursery rhymes. Are you scared of me? You should be scared of me. Because I killed your peeps. Blah blah blah blah blah blah." MAKE IT STOP.

What happened in his episode? Rosita takes out some aggression on walkers because we've never seen that before. Spencer drinks and hides 90% less weapons than Rick ever did and got bitched out. Judith might not be Rick's which is a massive surprise to the scores of people that don't know what sexual intercourse entails. 

WHY? 

Edited November 14, 2016 by The Mighty Peanut

[AngelaHunter]

Quote

I just don't believe that Negan was attracted to Maggie.  LC is a beautiful woman, but Maggie was not at this time. 

Not attracted. In fact he said, "You. Look. Like. HELL."

 

1 hour ago, jvr said:

Being behind the walls of Alexandria with all that gunpower...they could have blown Negan's group to bits when they rolled up to the gates. Rained bullets and rpgs down on their asses. 

Definitely. They knew he was coming. They could have had all the guns ready and sentries to alert them to his arrival easily.

I was a little dumfounded when Silly Spencer had absolutely no idea who Negan was. Obviously someone clued him in why Abe and Glenn didn't come  down for breakfast the next day. Does he have short-term memory loss?

[Yolapukka]

Negan has come for all your guns, most of your mattresses and every Crest white-strip in existence.

[spiderpig]

This is how bad this episode is (and I thought last week's was an all-time low):

Mr. pig said "Well, this one's over. OK if I flip to Westworld?"

The thing was, it was at 1:10 minutes and we didn't realize there was an additional 15 minutes until I came to this thread.  I'm queuing it up now because I'm a glutton for punishment.  Mr. pig is watching Westworld.

After all the hype from graphic novel fans about Negan, and I happen to like Jeffrey Dean Morgan, this story arc is the biggest drag in the whole series.  Rick's a sullen PITA, all of the Alexandrians are wimps, and Negan just won't shut up!  The dialogue and pacing are horrible, and I've actually fallen asleep trying to get through the past two eps.

Ugh. What a disappointment. I'm moving in with Carol.

[chabelisaywow]

Did Rosita tell on herself? Is IronFace going to remember his dead friends had guns?

[GreyBunny]

3 hours ago, What Fresh Hell said:

That was like watching the election all over again.  Enough.

Yup. Considering the results of the election, I can't watch a show about some egomaniacal fascist bully and his thugs threatening, menacing, and shaking down different groups of people.  I think I'm done with this show.

[Happy Harpy]

Well, pass again. 

Michonne, Ballsy!Carl, Rick/Michonne, and I don't watch? Yeah, Negan is that powerful, in an overwhelmingly unbearable way.

Oh, the good times when Father Gabriel was the most annoying character on the show.

[Muffyn]

1 hour ago, yuggapukka said:

Negan has come for all your guns, most of your mattresses and every Crest white-strip in existence.

I can't believe people aren't wearing sunglasses to block the glare from Negan's teeth.  I assume the pontificating with the glare from his choppers is part of his defenses.  If someone is going to shoot him, they'll need to aim at the back of his head.  Looking at his face, they'll be blinded. 

[millennium]

Dwight is annoying the shit out of me.   I liked him better when he played Tyson on Survivor.

Sort of wishing Dwight would just get it over with and ask Daryl to bone him already.

[Michel]

3 hours ago, lmsweb said:

Maggie went to Hilltop, with Sasha. Which begs the question - why didn't Negan ask where Sasha was, since she was there when he Lucille'd Abe and Glenn.

So Maggie and Sasha are safe at the Hilltop.  So where was Aaron?  Was he there and I missed him?  Perhaps the guy who reported to Rick that the guns weren't in Rosita's house?

[candall]

5 hours ago, mustbekarma said:

Thanks for the recap. I follow the live thread, but I refuse to watch the episodes.  That being said, I wonder if Rick surrendering all the guns to Negan was to lull him into a sense of false security.  It's not like they won't find more guns, not will hundreds of millions of them in America.  If Negan thinks the Alexandrites are being good girls and boys, that gives them time to plan.

 

5 hours ago, Timetoread said:

I don't know what people want from Rick.  If Rick fights and there are casualties then all death that happens on the planet is his fault.  If he doesn't fight then he's a pussy.  I think that everybody is a critic but nobody but Rick steps up to take responsibility for a whole group.  When bad guys come they ask for him by name.  And this newest one threatens his child.  If Rick were by himself he'd go down swinging.  But now if he swings the bad guy stikes back at other weaker members. What happens when Negan finds iut Judith is his?  What if he knew Michonne was his girlfriend?  

Rick has no leverage right now.  Father Gabriel is right, live to fight another day.

I think The Big Story is supposed to be how thoroughly Rick is genuinely broken, as opposed to other times when he was a leader caught between a rock and a hard place and discretion was the better part of valor.  MustBeKarma, Rick isn't working any secret agenda game with the guns.  On the Live Chat, we were all screaming about his not having secured part of the artillery.  He heard us through the tv screen and told the ASZers that if he had hidden guns and they were discovered, people would die. 

He surrendered Michonne's high powered rifle, that Negan didn't even know about.  And later, he asked Michonne if she'd hidden any guns, as he looked at her in a very intense way.  She hesitated and said no, but that was probably to demonstrate her instinct that she suddenly couldn't trust Broken Rick enough to automatically tell him the truth.

 

Personally, I think "no guns" is riskier, and probably results in a higher mortality rate, than "chance of hidden gun cache being discovered."  I'd prefer watching Rick be Secret Squirrel cagey--but I can see where they want to do something new and different in the character development department.  On TD, Andrew Lincoln said it was exhilarating to portray his new reality, and also that it was difficult to do.

I hope they can make it worth all the trouble, and damn thrilling, when Rick comes roaring back.  I want to SEE that little pile of wet straw catch whatever spark is going to make it burst into flames.

[Timetoread]

Awake the next morning and I kid you not I dreamed about Negan.  I was TF and I just had a victory because I talked Negan into purchasing a software that would automate his extortion.  Olivia found it for 40% cheaper on Amazon.  Negan was pleased.  Um, yeah.

Also re Judith:  people wonder how Rick knows for sure about Judith.  He doesn't need a DNA test.  Shane was his best friend, he knows that he is looking at the child he made.  Even when a bio parent is deceased it can be eerie how much like them their child can be.  But there is no reason for him to "accept" the truth about Judith.  She is Lori's daughter- and he loved Lori.  She is Shane's daughter- and he loved Shane.  When Rick was thought to be dead, Shane saved Carl and made Carl his own and loved him till the end. It really shouldn't be so hard to love Judith. She is Carl's beloved baby sister.  And she will never see Rick as a foster parent or a guardian.  He will be the only Daddy she will have ever known.  No more Judith angst is warranted.

Edited November 14, 2016 by Timetoread

[Ouisch]

6 hours ago, Lindsarella said:

All I'm getting from this season is that Neegan must have lower back problems.

Amen! I can't even pay attention to what he's saying because I'm too busy counting the number of times he does his backwards lean/knee bends posture.

[millennium]

How can anyone take Negan seriously after Dave Chapelle's send-up on SNL?

Not that I took him seriously in the first place.  It's like the writers scavenged old Stephen King novels and either borrowed from or were inspired by every swaggering, shit-talking, larger-than-life cracker barrel asshole he ever breathed onto the printed page.   

Edited November 14, 2016 by millennium

[Haleth]

9 hours ago, ElleMo said:

Had no idea those were mattresses burning. Had to tune into talking dead to find out.

I was going to ask what was burning.  I couldn't tell on the tv where I was watching.

8 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

I've been trying to figure out why they haven't taken the katana from her. I suppose I have to just say: Negan doesn't personally want it, because his personal signature weapon is a lot easier to maintain, but he doesn't really want to give it to, say, Dwight, either, because then someone else in his group would have an even more charismatic weapon than he does.

It doesn't make sense that he wouldn't take it.  Just because he can.  It's interesting.

The good?  Andy Lincoln's acting.  He's doing a superb job this season.  We've seen Rick snap before (RIP Joe the throatless); the tension while he held the bat with twitchy fingers, this [] close to whacking Negan was palpable.  The bad?  Everything else.  Did we really need an extra 25 minutes (less commercial time) for Negan's blathering?  It's boring.  I hope the writers are seeing how dissatisfied so many fans are with this storyline.  Please surprise us and have someone take him out ASAP.  The corny speech pattern, the over the top brutality, the emasculating of beloved characters are not fun to watch.

Oh, and apparently the tainted pig had no effect on the Saviors.

Yeun and Cudlitz should be glad to be done with this crap.

Edited November 14, 2016 by Haleth

[lynnea6]

5 hours ago, Happy Harpy said:

Oh, the good times when Father Gabriel was the most annoying character on the show.

And Father Gabriel showed the most foresight of anyone in Alexandria in this episode. What's the world coming to?

[ghoulina]

Yawn. Another dull, repetitive episode. It's Negan! Being mean. Again. Swinging his bat around. Again. Taking shit. Again. Guns, guns, guns. Anyone got some guns? Oooooh, I'm going to act like I'm about to kill someone, but I really won't. Ain't I menacing? Oh look, Daryl is dirty and sad. Now give me more guns. Blah, Blah, Blah......

I seriously cannot STAND this character. I have never picked up my phone and checked FB during TWD. I was sooo doing that last night. Why did this episode need to be an hour and half? NO one needs more Negan in their life. No one. 

And Carl, I love ya, buddy. Always have. I had your back when everyone was calling you a creepy, little shit and telling you to stay in the house. But take a lesson from your papa and bite your tongue when that blowhard is around, huh? Actually, Rick started out with a surly face himself, so I guess Carl doesn't have the best role model on how to learn a lesson. 

I really don't get the point of Negan completely disarming them. Taking some guns to recoup what he lost, okay. But what good is this group if they're mostly defenseless. He wants them to earn for him, right? They need to be able to go out in the world, then. Around other humans and walkers. Knives and Katanas are only going to get them so far. 

And, OF COURSE, fucking Spencer was the one hoarding guns. And food. And wine. Check all the floorboards. He's probably the ASZ version of Lane Kim. Got some medicine and gasoline stashed somewhere in that place as well. He's such a tool and I fucking cannot stand him and I wish Rick would have taken his frustrations from the Negan visit out on his CW boy head. 

I'm not sure if Rosita is brilliant or stupid. If she gets caught with it, it's gonna be a problem. But they need to do something. Finally Eugene will get a chance to make bullets! They should have started down that road much earlier. 

Honestly, though, I'd have left. Why didn't they leave? Get back to ASZ. Fill the vehicles. Get the fuck out of dodge. Head north and west. Go by night. Don't stop for anything. Just get out of there. I would not stay around to put up with this verbose asshole. 

The only parts of the episode that were worth it to me were the scenes with Rick and Michonne. Not only are Danai and Andy two of the best actors on this show, but the chemistry between them is amazing. And I don't just mean in a sexual way. You can just really sense that connection between them. The warmth, the tenderness. My heart just broke when Rick said, "I'm not losing anyone else". And when he mentioned Shane, I actually started crying. And I hated Shane! But that was his best friend. And I was floored to hear him admit that he knows about Judith. Such great moments, surrounded by an ocean of shit. (Shout out to Abraham!)

The mattress scene at the end was really fucked up. I mean, these guys have slept in worse places than a blanket on a floor inside a nice home. But to see that the Saviors weren't even going to USE them. I mean, if they want me to hate these people, they've succeeded. I just really don't want to watch an hour and a half of them bullying CDB. It's not enjoyable. 

Glad to get confirmation that Enid is out the closet. 

Edited November 14, 2016 by ghoulina

[CletusMusashi]

Maybe tainted pig makes you talk a lot.

[Johnny Dollar]

Burning mattresses is one thing, but if they so much as touch our pillow shams, shit's going down real quick. 

[Negritude]

4 hours ago, Michel said:

So Maggie and Sasha are safe at the Hilltop.  So where was Aaron?  Was he there and I missed him?  Perhaps the guy who reported to Rick that the guns weren't in Rosita's house?

Aaron was there. He was in the scene at the chapel when Rick is talking to the group. He was the one discouraging the blonde guy who stood up from speaking.

Lol at people's irritation with Negan. I'm so over him. I'm not sure if its JDM's acting choices that annoy me more or the actual words coming out of his mouth which he can't help. It's really 80s teen movie villain to me and not even in the endearing Billy Zabka (had to look that up) way. Some posters have already mentioned all the damn knee and back bends. Joe Cocker ha! And what about all the close talking?! 

I remember actively rooting for Father Gabriel's death when he first came on the show but he redeemed himself a little this episode. Nice to see Rosita get some shine too. They're finally pulling the actress off the bench and putting her in the game, after how many seasons? Three, four? Good for her.

Edited November 14, 2016 by Negritude

[Mrs Tvbug]

Signing in for the second week in a row to say... my favorite tv show is BORING

I didn't even watch the whole stupid thing.

[JackONeill]

I think the way they should have resolved this dispute between Rick and crew and Negan and crew would be to have had Abe (while still alive, that is) and Negan enter a winner-take-all "stupid sayings contest."

Dolphin smooth

Suck my nuts

Pour the bisquick

Easy peasy

and on...and on. There would probably be no end. In fact, everyone else would probably die of old age.

And, seriously, does Negan sit around the campfire coming up with these things? I'd ask Abe but he's, well, dead.

and, on a serious note, do the writers think this makes Negan tougher? I think all it does is make him more obnoxious and deserving of a baseball bat to the head. And it also makes me want to watch something else.

[Rosiejuliemom]

1 hour ago, millennium said:

How can anyone take Negan seriously after Dave Chapelle's send-up on SNL?

Not that I took him seriously in the first place.  It's like the writers scavenged old Stephen King novels and either borrowed from or were inspired by every swaggering, shit-talking, larger-than-life cracker barrel asshole he ever breathed onto the printed page.   

He's like a cut-rate Randall Flagg.

[ZoloftBlob]

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Honestly, though, I'd have left. Why didn't they leave? Get back to ASZ. Fill the vehicles. Get the fuck out of dodge. Head north and west. Go by night. Don't stop for anything. Just get out of there. I would not stay around to put up with this verbose asshole. 

Agreed. Alexandria at this point is no prize. It makes no sense that they didn't just load up the trucks and head south. They have some idea of what Negan's total group count looks like - Negan blathered that he had pulled most of his resources in to do the RV chase so why not just run hard and fast rather than stay and grab your ankles for Negan's pleasure?

Oh wait, that would be logical and make sense.

[neece26]

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Honestly, though, I'd have left. Why didn't they leave? Get back to ASZ. Fill the vehicles. Get the fuck out of dodge. Head north and west. Go by night. Don't stop for anything. Just get out of there. I would not stay around to put up with this verbose asshole. 

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Being behind the walls of Alexandria with all that gunpower...they could have blown Negan's group to bits when they rolled up to the gates. Rained bullets and rpgs down on their asses. They had a fighting chance even while being outnumbered but now they are outnumber and outgunned...they are in an impossible situation now. I hope Rick knows wtf he is doing.

I would guess that in his fragile state, Rick is concerned that Negan would would take it out on Daryl if they tried anything.

90 minutes of Negan is really bad TV.  He would be better in small doses.

[ghoulina]

8 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

don't like Spencer, I think he's a weasel.  But as far as he's concerned, before Rick's gang arrived he had two parents, a brother, and a thriving community.  He's realizing what Hershel did:  you people are the plague.

I don't think CDB is necessarily a plague. I think they just have horrible timing. They tend to show up right before some external factor (quarry zombies, Wolves) descend on naive people. So to THEM, it seems like CDB ruined their life. But things would have been a lot worse if they weren't there. 

 

8 hours ago, bobbyjoe said:

And the she'd gone back to Rick and said "Rick, Rick, I figured out Negan!  He hates mattresses!"

I figured out Negan. It's beards. He's afraid of beards. He admitted as much when viewing Rick's old interview. So....Rick just needs to grow the beard back and he can beat Negan. Problem solved!

 

5 hours ago, millennium said:

Dwight is annoying the shit out of me.   I liked him better when he played Tyson on Survivor.

Bahahahaa, best post in this forum. Ever. 

[nodorothyparker]

This was really the wrong week to run an episode about a head asshole with diarrhea of the mouth waving his dick around while all the little assholes out asshole each other just to be assholes.

Nothing in this episode made sense and nothing justified it being a very long and tedious 90 minutes.  Is it really supposed to be shocking that Rick knows Judith is Shane's spawn?  Other characters were making jokes about it all the way back in season 3.  I always figured he knew it was highly probable but with the absence of DNA testing and the fact that Shane and then Lori both died in relatively short order that he'd realized it ultimately didn't matter as she was still Carl's sister and the child that the woman he had loved had given her life for.  His entire reasoning about that is actually kind of insulting to every other character who has put their lives on the line or died to keep "Rick's kids" safe.  Good thing Carol or Tyreese or Michonne or Beth or practically anyone else didn't feel that way when you were dragging your screaming zombie magnets over hill and dale, right Rick?

Again, the entire setup of the Saviors putting this much effort out for an asshole just to asshole just defies any degree of plausibility.  Have any of these writers ever moved mattresses?  Furniture?  We're really to believe they did all the heavy lifting of lugging an entire truckload down stairs and out to curbs and onto trucks just to drive down the road and light a bonfire?  When they're apparently sleeping on what appeared to be miserable army cots?  But then, I can't imagine any thinking person who's been living like the Saviors apparently do in a rundown warehouse looking around at all the nice Pottery Barn houses and not thinking "hey, why are we following this asshole just to live no better than stray dogs when all this is right here?"

I do get that we're supposed to see the combination of Rick being so completely cowed and that the Saviors arrived early as the reason they hadn't planned anything at all.  But it never once occurred to anyone to chuck the inventory lists?  To maybe hold back at least some of their most needed supplies, like in say conveniently dug empty graves, so they wouldn't be left with absolutely nothing to even try to begin to regroup?

I just don't know that I can do this anymore.  Let me know if Carol or Shiva or the rest of the Kingdom show back up.

Edited November 14, 2016 by nodorothyparker

[JackONeill]

I used to complain that is was tedious watching CDB walking through the same stand of pine trees for what seemed like forever. The writers have now somehow managed to make the show even more tedious. Congratulations.

[diebartdie]

3 hours ago, Ouisch said:

Amen! I can't even pay attention to what he's saying because I'm too busy counting the number of times he does his backwards lean/knee bends posture.

To me, that body thing is more annoying than his dialogue. Last night's episode just really pointed out how much the Negan character does not work on tv. There are just too many opportunities for people to murder Negan! I dont believe for a second that ALL his men buy his bullshit, realistically many of them would just not be down with his bullshit. He works in the comics! You can just really buy him there. In tvland though? Nope. Some dude would be too disgruntled over losing his wife to Negan and would shoot him.