S01.E03: Tahani Al-Jamil

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Chidi begins formally teaching Eleanor about ethics, and lesson No. 1 is: be kind to your neighbor. Michael and Janet help Chidi find a new, exciting hobby.

[ParadoxLost]

So this one pretty much confirmed that something deeper is going on here.

I'm guessing that this is a kind of purgatory and no one in it has "earned" the Good Place or Bad Place (although I'm not really sure that either exist in this show).

I think that there are two types.  Those that think they earned the Good Place and those that think that they are there by clerical error.  But neither are right and that is how the pairings work. 

I don't think Eleanor took anyone's place.  I think the house and clowns are her constructs because she doesn't think she deserves to be there so her home reflects a punishment.  I think Tahani thinks through her billions raised for charity thinks she is supposed to be there so has the ostentatious mansion as a reward.

But in reality, Eleanor/Jianyu and Chidi/Tahani all likely had the problem of not connecting with people or insecurities that drove their actions that they need to overcome and they are paired with the person that can help with that.

I also think there is no other place to go.  I think that Michael was telling the truth that they were building their own neighborhood.  It will end up being their eternity and what they make of it good or bad.

There is something off about Michael.  He's not good at running the neighborhood or nurturing its citizens.  I think he's got as much to learn as everyone else.

Edited September 23, 2016 by ParadoxLost

[AnnaRose]

I set my DVR for 1 minute over, and it still cut off while Eleanor was pleading with him to not rat her out.  Can someone please tell me what happened after that?  Thank you in advance.. and here's hoping that taking the time to help a fellow viewer earns you extra points toward The Good Place. ;)

[Luciano]

The last thing I saw (because it cut off for me too) was Jianyu saying that he wasn't going to rat her out because he doesn't belong there either.

[EyewatchTV211]

I missed the end because I was recording 2 things at 9 and my DVR wanted to switch over right away (it can't record 3 shows). So the last thing I saw was Eleanor getting the note to meet. Based on what Luciano said, it was Jianyu who wrote the notes. Did I miss anything else in between those two things? And I guess others will have to explain what happened after.

[zxy556575]

There wasn't much. Jianyu did wrote the notes. When E confronts him:

J: You don't belong here. Admit it.

E: Okay, you're right. I don't belong here. Michael made a mistake. But I'm trying, dude. I'm really trying to be a good person and I think I'm changing for the better. So just please, please don't rat me out.

J: Don't worry, I won't.

E. [relieved sigh]

J: Because I'm not supposed to be here, either! I don't know how I got here, I have no idea what's going on and I am FREAKING OUT, homey! You gotta help me! I'm scared!

E: What?

The end.

Edited September 26, 2016 by lordonia

[AnnaRose]

Thanks so much, Lordonia!  :)

[ParadoxLost]

32 minutes ago, Luciano said:

The last thing I saw (because it cut off for me too) was Jianyu saying that he wasn't going to rat her out because he doesn't belong there either.

That was about all that happened.  It didn't go much longer.  I would say if you missed the last bit you probably missed the joke/reason on why Jianyu doesn't speak.  Lets just say that the lines @lordonia shared doesn't do the scene justice in terms incongruity of speaking style and demeanor.

Edited September 23, 2016 by ParadoxLost

[Lady Calypso]

I'm glad to get some more hints about what's really going on. It goes to show that the showrunner thought a lot about the show and its workings.

Janet's still, by far, my favourite along with Chidi. 

Eleanor showed a good trait this episode and I don't think she realized it. She helped Chidi, so that was good. And then she helped Tahani. 

The ending with Homey Jianyu might be my favourite moment. 

[thuganomics85]

OK, I enjoyed the pilot for what it was, but that final twist with Jianyu has gotten me intrigued.  He can speak and "doesn't belong here" either.  This is explaining a few things now.  Because it was feeling like all of these characters seemed to have at least one negative trait that would have probably lost them enough points to make it into the Good Place Michael was describing, so something fishy is going down.  Michael seems sincere though, so I have to think he's being played too.  Hmm...

Enjoyed Eleanor and Tahani together, and Eleanor's understandable annoyance with her, but actually being kind to her at the end.  And I'm glad they addressed the sight gag of the size difference between Kristen Bell and Jameela Jamil.  Not familiar with the latter, but I'm enjoying her, but I feel like her voice is very similar to another British person or something, but I can't place it yet.  Bell though, is still the best, because Eleanor can be so damn detestable at times, but Bell is somehow making me enjoy watching her.  I am so going to the "Bad Place", for cracking up at her "Let's just watch a Roman Polanski movie, listen to R. Kelly and eat Chick-Fil-A!" retort in the flashback, to when her boyfriend didn't want to go to a coffee place run by a known sexist asshole.

Chidi and Michael was kind of fun, in seeing Chidi's weakness in that he is very intelligent, but doesn't seem to be able to be coherent at times, when it comes to his thesis and other works.  The different versions of Janet were great too.

Eleanor being Michael's assistant will no doubt cause some fun!

That twist though.  I really can't wait to see where this is heading.

[PhoneCop]

Nice to know they aren't dragging out the Jianyu plotline. I mean, I know we all expected him to speak eventually, but I wasn't expecting Episode 3.

The early exterior scenes with Eleanor and Tahani were shot in the Chinese Garden at the Huntington Library. Wonder if that'll be a recurring locale or if this was just a one-off.

[Dowel Jones]

So Columbus went to hell, as did the Portland Trailblazers.  Tough break, guys.  I'm liking Janet and her various metamorphoses. 

"I get lost on an escalator."  I will have to remember that one.

Tahini's diary had a foreword by Kylie Minogue?

 

17 minutes ago, PhoneCop said:

Wonder if that'll be a recurring locale

Parks&Rec. shot quite a few scenes around the Huntington Library back in the day, so I would guess that the producers have an in with them.

Edited September 23, 2016 by Dowel Jones

[scarynikki12]

5 minutes ago, Dowel Jones said:

Tahini's diary had a foreword by Kylie Minogue?

And Malala!  That was a nice touch.

Everything about this show makes me laugh but Janet is pulling ahead of the pack.  Her porn line from last episode had me in stitches and her personality changes in this episode were gold. 

[bros402]

I loved this episode.

Janet is the best character, tonight she was just AMAZING

[alexa]

Maybe I should not comment until I have a chance to see the pilot, but I watched last night's episode, and I was just bored.  I don't think it was that I felt I was missing some major storyline, I just didn't really care about the interaction between most of the characters.  I will watch the pilot when it repeats this weekend and see if that changes anything.

[omgsowicked]

Thanks for the info about the final scene, my DVR cut off as well. And judging by the comments, extending an extra two minutes won't be enough... gotta go back and push it out to five.

I was so-so about the pilot but having the second episode air right after helped. Having a third episode air the same week really helped, as did reading the theories here. I do think this might be a place for everyone to better themselves before going "on" or going back to living (near-death experience), and I find that possibility exciting. The jokes were better, as was the chemistry between the actors. Thursday is a packed TV day but I think I'll keep this on my schedule. I'm interested in seeing how everything fleshes out.

[AnnaRose]

1 hour ago, omgsowicked said:

Thanks for the info about the final scene, my DVR cut off as well. And judging by the comments, extending an extra two minutes won't be enough... gotta go back and push it out to five.

I previously thought I had set my DVR 1 minute over, but when I went back and looked, I only set it one minute ahead at the start, and had other things recording at 9:00pm, so I couldn't go over at all.  The recording that kicked in afterward, right at nine, had Jianyu squeaking out, "I'm scared!"   So one or two minutes would probably be enough.

Edited September 23, 2016 by AnnaRose

[Gregg247]

I loved when Michael was trying to get Chidi to try a different hobby than working on his terrible book.  "I learned what a headache was just from reading your book." and "I can read everything ever written in an hour, but it took me 2 weeks to read your book." LOL  

Ted Danson was channelling a little bit of Sam Malone in those scenes, I thought.

[Jack Kerouac]

10 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

I am so going to the "Bad Place", for cracking up at her "Let's just watch a Roman Polanski movie, listen to R. Kelly and eat Chick-Fil-A!" retort in the flashback, to when her boyfriend didn't want to go to a coffee place run by a known sexist asshole.

That was hilarious. Also, the skeevy guys 'checking her references' went on so long without the woman doing anything about it, it became funny in a weird way. "Did you know your left reference is a little smaller than your right?" Who would just sit there?

Edited September 23, 2016 by Jack Kerouac

[whiporee]

I don't think it's purgatory, I think it's straight-out Hell for people who are insecure that others are better than they are.  My guess is that everyone is, to a degree, in the same situation as Eleanor -- being there and trying to act like they belong but none of them feels as if they do. 

[KLovestoShop]

I wasn't really impressed with the pilot, but this episode was really funny and intriguing.   I'll keep watching.  Loved Jianyu and his funny, almost gang way of speaking.  Looks like he really doesn't belong there.  But I want to know, how did he know Eleanor didn't belong there?  

[taragel]

I'm so glad they showed three this week, because I feel things are really starting to gel and move forward in this third one. I'm so glad they didn't drag out the note-leaver's identity as a mystery and that we got Jianyu speaking already. I was surprised that already Eleanor is being pretty nice, comforting both Chidi AND Tahani in their moments of insecurity. 

Michael's overall ineptness is interesting. 

[EdnasEdibles]

I think the folks who think everyone doesn't belong there are onto something. And I think as more folks come forward about how they don't belong there, it will become more outwardly hellish until they all band together and figure this out. I think they're all kind of in their own internal hells - second guessing, feeling like they don't belong.  I think the show is like the John Milton quote, “The mind is its own place, and in itself can make a heaven of hell, a hell of heaven..” 
 

[AuntiePam]

3 hours ago, KLovestoShop said:

I wasn't really impressed with the pilot, but this episode was really funny and intriguing.   I'll keep watching.  Loved Jianyu and his funny, almost gang way of speaking.  Looks like he really doesn't belong there.  But I want to know, how did he know Eleanor didn't belong there?  

Maybe because when he was around Eleanor, he was quiet -- just listening and observing, and he noticed that she wasn't comfortable.  ??  That would hearken back to Eleanor's lesson in the pilot, when she wasn't really listening to Chidi.

I thought that over-using the word "literally" would be noticed as a minus.  Chidi said it twice and Michael also said it, and if I remember right, none of the uses were correct. 

[atomationage]

I liked this episode, but apparently Ted Danson and Kristen Bell are going to be in more scenes together in the episodes going forward, if she is going to be his assistant.    I don't know if that will work as well as what they have been doing.  I like Eleanor with Chidi, and they just opened the door to Jianyu and Eleanor.  I like Ted Danson, but I hope he doesn't completely take over the show.   My favorite scenes in this one were the flashbacks to Eleanor and her boyfriend.   I hope the flashbacks continue too. 

[movingtargetgal]

Why can't the networks manage to run their programs in the same time frame as posted in the tv listings.  If a program is scheduled for 8-8:30 it should actually end at 8:30 not 8:31.  I am so tired of having to set my DVR record that extra minute because it screws up my other recordings.  I know it is a very minor pet peeve in the grand scheme of all that is wrong with the world. However, it is one of those things that can be easily fixed if TPTB had the will to fix it.  That is what frustrates me.

[dcalley]

30 minutes ago, movingtargetgal said:

Why can't the networks manage to run their programs in the same time frame as posted in the tv listings.  ... it is one of those things that can be easily fixed if TPTB had the will to fix it. 

We can hope they'll get points deducted for it.

[tennisgurl]

This show is great, I cannot wait to see where its going. Not only is it funny, its also got a really interesting premise. I know some people were worried that this premise could not be sustained over a whole series, but I can see them going to some interesting places here.

I am with the people who suspect that this might be purgatory, or a specific kind of hell for insecure people, who feel like they are the only asshole in a world of perfect people. Or, at the very least, they have some kind of major flaw, even if they are a really good person (Tahani really did raise money for needy people, but is also full of her self, Chidi really is strongly ethical, but he is also insecure), and they have to work through their issues before they get to the "real" Good Place. But, is Michael in on it? Does he know that his heaven is flawed, or does he really think this is a perfect place, and he is being manipulated by someone higher up? 

[Big Mother]

I didnt see this twist coming! Looks like this will be a rather intriguing show. I'm hooked now.

 

I wrote this in another thread, I dont remember where, that I think that Eleanor is in some sort of time warp, i.o.w. the life plastered on the walls of her house are the Eleanor she is going to be after she gets a 2nd lease on life after a few months? . Maybe the Good Place is a place where people who were in vehicle or other accidents get a year to improve themselves, and then get a 2nd chance in life, all while they're still in a coma down on earth. Who know!

[sjohnson]

So far the ethical lessons the Good Place is teaching Eleanor have to do with being nice, sincere and selfless. There are all sorts of ethical challenges in real life that don't seem to have much to do with being pleasant company. Paying your bills is nice too, especially to the vendors. So working a sales job pushing a dubious product is also a good deed, better than being on food stamps? Wouldn't being on food stamps be a bad deed? It's not at all clear that this show wouldn't consider that bad. 

In fictional universe terms, why haven't Jianyu's bad thoughts caused anything weird to happen? The whole setup seems to be all about Elearnor and in some ways she is the real maker, not Michael. At least, that's the implication from Jianyu not causing weirdness.

[theatremouse]

1 hour ago, sjohnson said:

In fictional universe terms, why haven't Jianyu's bad thoughts caused anything weird to happen? The whole setup seems to be all about Elearnor and in some ways she is the real maker, not Michael. At least, that's the implication from Jianyu not causing weirdness.

Or he did initially and then learned how not to, or his have manifested in smaller ways we haven't seen because Eleanor wasn't there and so far the show is following her, or he is and they just didn't show it yet.

I'm personally leaning toward at least half of them don't really belong there, but up in the air on whether Danson knows it  and that's part of what's happening on purpose (like a test of some sort) or is in the dark.

Edited September 24, 2016 by theatremouse

[Rinaldo]

7 hours ago, AuntiePam said:

I thought that over-using the word "literally" would be noticed as a minus.  Chidi said it twice and Michael also said it, and if I remember right, none of the uses were correct. 

On a re-viewing, I noticed both of Chidi's uses of the word. Both were correct.

[BoogieBurns]

47 minutes ago, Rinaldo said:

On a re-viewing, I noticed both of Chidi's uses of the word. Both were correct.

Mike Schur has a thing about that word. Before Chris Traeger, he only wrote it for his characters when it was the correct usage. He mentioned this on a commentary of The Office. Maybe Ted Dansen ad-libbed it? Or maybe no one cares anymore because the silly dictionary added both meanings as the definition. 

Literal should never mean "an exaggeration" but this is why we can't have nice things. 

[Dowel Jones]

7 hours ago, movingtargetgal said:

If a program is scheduled for 8-8:30 it should actually end at 8:30 not 8:31.  

I read somewhere that the networks do it that way specifically to circumvent the use of DVRs, and get people to watch live instead.  The ratings, you understand.  So,  dcalley,  hopefully they'll get double points deducted.

[EyewatchTV211]

Another thing I'm wondering about. When Eleanor first went to Tahani's home to deliver her gift of pears, Tahani references welcoming her to "our" home, meaning Tahani's and Jianyu's home. So do they live together even though Eleanor and Chidi have separate perfect homes? I wonder if they lived together from the start or if they (Tahani) quickly decided they should live together. 

[Kromm]

On 9/22/2016 at 10:51 PM, Lady Calypso said:

I'm glad to get some more hints about what's really going on. It goes to show that the showrunner thought a lot about the show and its workings.

Janet's still, by far, my favourite along with Chidi. 

I think Janet's malfunctions, as funny as they were, are either a hint or a red herring designed to look like a hint. I mean on the face of it, if she malfunctions this easily, there's a possible storyline where maybe Michael just cheated and used her for a lot of the work.

Of course it's unlikely to be that simple. We could get a reveal he did that, but then find out he also was/is being tested. 

On 9/22/2016 at 9:35 PM, ParadoxLost said:

So this one pretty much confirmed that something deeper is going on here.

I'm guessing that this is a kind of purgatory and no one in it has "earned" the Good Place or Bad Place (although I'm not really sure that either exist in this show).

I think that there are two types.  Those that think they earned the Good Place and those that think that they are there by clerical error.  But neither are right and that is how the pairings work. 

I don't think Eleanor took anyone's place.  I think the house and clowns are her constructs because she doesn't think she deserves to be there so her home reflects a punishment.  I think Tahani thinks through her billions raised for charity thinks she is supposed to be there so has the ostentatious mansion as a reward.

But in reality, Eleanor/Jianyu and Chidi/Tahani all likely had the problem of not connecting with people or insecurities that drove their actions that they need to overcome and they are paired with the person that can help with that.

I also think there is no other place to go.  I think that Michael was telling the truth that they were building their own neighborhood.  It will end up being their eternity and what they make of it good or bad.

There is something off about Michael.  He's not good at running the neighborhood or nurturing its citizens.  I think he's got as much to learn as everyone else.

You are correct, I believe. And you didn't mention Chidi's specifics. He's a thinker, not a doer. All his spiritual/ethical perfection comes down to little more than theory and not practice. 

[Kromm]

4 hours ago, sjohnson said:

In fictional universe terms, why haven't Jianyu's bad thoughts caused anything weird to happen? The whole setup seems to be all about Elearnor and in some ways she is the real maker, not Michael. At least, that's the implication from Jianyu not causing weirdness.

Just because we didn't see it, doesn't mean it didn't happen though. Also, maybe Eleanor is just more conflicted by it than him and that's what manifested. I mean think about it. For all that we've been told she's a bad person, the first thing she did was confide in Chidi. We could project that as her being lazy, perhaps, but maybe she felt bad from the first that she was taking something away from him. Meanwhile Jianyu (presumably that's still his name and he also had a person with the same name who's profile he thinks he's filling) presumably has said nothing to his so-called Soulmate. 

So maybe Eleanor's just more active and Jianyu passive (staying silent and doing as little as possible). Her active rebellion is what caused those events. 

As good as the two-parter was, this was even stronger. I even kind of loved the B-plot, because it had an actual point (illustrating for us what Chidi's huge flaw is--the whole sayer vs. doer thing). 

Edited September 24, 2016 by Kromm

[jhlipton]

Eh, I don't care if Eleanor is good or bad -- she's boring.

I have no problem with "bad" leads: Archer is fun and one of my favorite shows back in the day was Dabney Coleman as "Buffalo Bill" (well before "Silence of the Lambs"!)  But this is just meh.

[Kromm]

14 hours ago, whiporee said:

I don't think it's purgatory, I think it's straight-out Hell for people who are insecure that others are better than they are.  My guess is that everyone is, to a degree, in the same situation as Eleanor -- being there and trying to act like they belong but none of them feels as if they do. 

Although we could be being lied to, we at least THINK Chidi is being honest. While he was clearly a sayer and not a doer when it comes to morality, he seemingly wasn't mixed up with another person.

I think Jianyu was. I think unless another layer is peeled back (no reason to assume even the seemingly true virtuous are being honest, but lets start there), that we will find out sooner enough that every pair includes someone who seems to have been mixed up with another person and one person who seems to be the "perfect" one (but who isn't, because they all have unacknowledged flaws). Then we eventually will have to dig into WHY this is the case (and if Michael knows, if it's by accident or design, either by him or above him). 

[AnnaRose]

1 hour ago, Dowel Jones said:

I read somewhere that the networks do it that way specifically to circumvent the use of DVRs, and get people to watch live instead.  The ratings, you understand.  So,  dcalley,  hopefully they'll get double points deducted.

It never motivates me to watch a show live... it just pisses me off and usually leads to me giving up on a show completely.  Especially when there are important plot points at the end, that are being cut-off due to these shenanigans.

[CletusMusashi]

OK, the first duo had me on the fence, but after three I think I honestly like this show.  Not quite sure what it is, though. Not serious enough to be a drama, but not much of a comedy either. I think I've actually laughed out loud for like one 'ha" syllable in three episodes. But I'm interested in the the story, and it's light and kind of fun and certainly easy to watch, and for like twenty minutes a week just to follow where this is going.. sure, why not? If it ever settles into sitcom stasis, or starts relying too much on "will they or won't they?" nonsense, then I'll probably start falling behind and forgetting about it. But that has not actually happened.

[BooBear]

6 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

OK, the first duo had me on the fence, but after three I think I honestly like this show.  Not quite sure what it is, though. Not serious enough to be a drama, but not much of a comedy either. I think I've actually laughed out loud for like one 'ha" syllable in three episodes. 

I like this show too and think this episode took a turn toward the funny.  I laughed a few times. Chidi kills me.  Janet is very funny. Honestly I find Kristen Bell and Ted Danson to be the weak links.  Kind of like the way every episode is a little lesson on what it means to be good in a non preachy / real life way. 

[cpcathy]

Michael's use of "literally" was also correct, he's a celestial being, Chidi's manuscript "literally" taught him what a headache was since he'd never had one before.

[tominboston]

I finally had a chance to watch this episode today and now I guess I'm hooked. The first two episodes had left me reasonably amused but confused; now #3 seemed to nicely set up where the show is going to go. Eleanor wasn't completely awful, and I though there were more good laugh lines, or maybe I was just getting into the right mood. I keep thinking of the first couple seasons of "Lost" as the model for this world, where no one truly knows where they are or why they're there. 

Overly Helpful Janet is great!

[Skyfall]

On September 23, 2016 at 4:10 PM, movingtargetgal said:

Why can't the networks manage to run their programs in the same time frame as posted in the tv listings.  If a program is scheduled for 8-8:30 it should actually end at 8:30 not 8:31.  I am so tired of having to set my DVR record that extra minute because it screws up my other recordings.  I know it is a very minor pet peeve in the grand scheme of all that is wrong with the world. However, it is one of those things that can be easily fixed if TPTB had the will to fix it.  That is what frustrates me.

Switch to Dish. PTAT AND 16 tuners at one. Will never have conflicts and with the entire PR schedule recording you won't miss anything!

[movingtargetgal]

I wish I could switch to another provider or cut the cord entirely.  However, I live at a high elevation and get no reception even though the local TV towers are a half a mile away.  It sucks but I do have a beautiful country view.

[chaifan]

OK, I can appreciate everyone's theories on what the "Good Place" actually is.  But, my take is to just take it as it has been explained - that each religion with a heaven/hell construct sort of had the gist of things, but not exactly right in the details, and this is what happens to "good" people upon death.  Personally, I hope the show just sticks with that and doesn't reveal a hidden truth (purgatory, or Eleanor's dream, or what have you).  I like it as the setting for this particular show.  I hope they don't make it into anything other than what it has been set out to be.

On the other hand, why is that we don't ever see where Chidi lives...  hmmmm...

Edited September 25, 2016 by chaifan
misspelling

[Kromm]

25 minutes ago, chaifan said:

OK, I can appreciate everyone's theories on what the "Good Place" actually is.  But, my take is to just take it as it has been explained - that each religion with a heaven/hell construct sort of had the gist of things, but not exactly right in the details, and this is what happens to "good" people upon death.  Personally, I hope the show just sticks with that and doesn't reveal a hidden truth (purgatory, or Eleanor's dream, or what have you).  I like it as the setting for this particular show.  I hope they don't make it into anything other than what it has been set out to be.

On the other hand, why is that we don't ever see where Chidi lives...  hmmmm...

But your theory (that it's what it appears to be) has an essential flaw in it.

That The Good Place is filled with errors.

That's even before we analyze what it means for Heaven to be based on Rules Mechanics in the first place, and that it's so strict that virtually everyone goes to Hell.

The premise almost demands that more is going on. Maybe not the things we've guessed (that's it's Hell, or Purgatory, or a Dream/Coma, or VR) but it does demand that somehow the characters (and us by extension) were fed a crock of shit about how the place runs and what it's core mission is. 

Put it this way. Michael is not God. But some higher power is necessary just for this all to be possible. If Michael is fallible, what does that say about this higher power?  About the system it's built?  Can a show with this premise simply be an expression that Heaven is real... but a crock?  Sure it could be, but how cheated would the audience feel if that was the case?

Oh, we did get to see where Chidi lives. But only the outside. Why didn't we get to see the inside? I chalked it up to Eleanor being too selfish to care.

[theatremouse]

10 hours ago, Kromm said:

Oh, we did get to see where Chidi lives. But only the outside. Why didn't we get to see the inside? I chalked it up to Eleanor being too selfish to care.

Or just fluke of editing, such that, since it wasn't critical to the plot yet that we see inside, if they had to cut 10 seconds of something here or there, that could've easily been a thing to go so far.

[Rinaldo]

Or... we have a season to go, we shouldn't get shown everything at once. There's time.