Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, JoanArc said:

Parenting Everything is just mouthing platitudes and being incredibly stunted .

Fixed it for ya.

[jcbrown]

There was a piece in the New York Times this past Sunday about why American home birth is more dangerous than in many other parts of the world. It made me think of Jilly Muffin. An excerpt:

Quote

The problem is that there are two types of midwives in the United States. The first, certified nurse midwives, called C.N.M.s, are perhaps the best-educated, best-trained midwives in the world, exceeding standards set by the International Confederation of Midwives. Their qualifications, similar to those of midwives in Canada, include a university degree in midwifery and extensive training in a hospital diagnosing and managing complications.

The other, certified professional midwives, or C.P.M.s, fall far short of international standards. One 2010 study of midwives published in The Journal of Perinatology found that home births attended by nurse midwives had double the neonatal mortality rate of hospital births attended by nurse midwives, while home births attended by C.P.M.s and other midwives had nearly four times that rate.

This second class of poorly trained midwives attend the majority of American home births. And yet they are legal in only 28 states; in the rest of the country, many practice outside the law.

They used to be called “lay midwives” or “direct entry midwives,” in recognition of their lack of formal medical schooling. That didn’t sound very impressive. In a brilliant marketing ploy, they created a credential — theC.P.M. — and awarded it to themselves. Many receive their education through correspondence courses and their training through apprenticeships with another C.P.M., observing several dozen births and presiding at fewer. How woefully inadequate is this education? In 2012 the requirements were updated to require proof of a high school diploma.

They seem to believe they don’t need more training because they are “experts in normal birth.” As I often say, that makes as much sense as a meteorologist being an expert in sunny weather. Anyone from a taxi driver to a 12-year-old sibling can handle (and has handled) an uncomplicated birth. The only reason to have a trained attendant is to prevent, diagnose and manage complications, the very things that C.P.M.s never have to learn to do.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/01/opinion/sunday/why-is-american-home-birth-so-dangerous.html

[kokapetl]

9 minutes ago, jcbrown said:

There was a piece in the New York Times this past Sunday about why American home birth is more dangerous than in many other parts of the world. It made me think of Jilly Muffin. An excerpt:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/01/opinion/sunday/why-is-american-home-birth-so-dangerous.html

Midwives seem like gatekeepers to more advanced care in those non American settings. In Australia I think it's General Practitioners who fulfill that role. Quite a few of my GPs have obstetrics diplomas, they aren't obstetricians, but they've some advanced training in the field, recognized by The Royal Australian and New Zealand College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists. 

[GeeGolly]

1 hour ago, jcbrown said:

There was a piece in the New York Times this past Sunday about why American home birth is more dangerous than in many other parts of the world. It made me think of Jilly Muffin. An excerpt:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/01/opinion/sunday/why-is-american-home-birth-so-dangerous.html

 

1 hour ago, jcbrown said:

They seem to believe they don’t need more training because they are “experts in normal birth.” As I often say, that makes as much sense as a meteorologist being an expert in sunny weather. Anyone from a taxi driver to a 12-year-old sibling can handle (and has handled) an uncomplicated birth. The only reason to have a trained attendant is to prevent, diagnose and manage complications, the very things that C.P.M.s never have to learn to do.

What I don't understand is how this feels okay to some folks. I would never feel comfortable being the primary support for a person giving birth. So much could potentially go wrong with 2 people's lives. I think the above analogy hits it home.

I do recall an FU interwebz moment from either Jessa or Jill saying that they always have a emergency back-up plan. The problem is they don't know what constitutes an emergency.

[JoanArc]

Quote

I do recall an FU interwebz moment from either Jessa or Jill saying that they always have a emergency back-up plan. The problem is they don't know what constitutes an emergency.

 

Jill had a 3-page birth plan. She was so proud of it. She's too naive to know that medical plans have a way of flying out the window at the drop of a hat. She was gonna grunt, groan, and recite bible verses with Derrick. See how well that perfect birth turned out?

[Fuzzysox]

1 hour ago, Oh Margeaux said:

Page 1 of that birth plan should've included:

 

1.  Secure a medical PROFESSIONAL to assist in the birth.

AMEN!! (is that a bible verse??)

[JoanArc]

1 hour ago, Oh Margeaux said:

Page 1 of that birth plan should've included:

 

1.  Secure a medical PROFESSIONAL to assist in the birth.

She got a Certified Professional Midwife. Checkmate, haters.

So what's step two?

[Churchhoney]

7 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

She got a Certified Professional Midwife. Checkmate, haters.

So what's step two?

2. Pray.

And, hey, it worked!

[Vaysh]

I wonder if the fact that Muffy isn't pregnant yet has something to do with her slip of "my" room in an earlier episode. Maybe they are actually sane enough to follow doctor's orders about no immediate pregnancy after a c-section. Or at least Derrick is. And maybe having separate rooms and abstaining from sex is their choice of contraception. If so there must be quite a war of ideologies here: always joyfully available to create an army for the lord vs. all contraception is evil vs. you actually want your child to grow up with a living mother.

[Sew Sumi]

Until it didn't, and they had to take her stubborn ass with the transverse/breech baby (is there really such a thing?) to the EVIL HOSPITAL to be put under the care of an EVIL OBSTETRICIAN and receive an EVIL CESEAREAN, which of course diminishes her value as a child-bearing woman in her circles. 

[Sew Sumi]

Jill looks like she's 40. 

[Quilt Fairy]

Gummy smiles like that make me stabby.  I don't know about people in general, but to show that much of my upper gums I would have to stretch my mouth really hard into what I would call a "fake smile" rather than a real one.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Quilt Fairy

[Micks Picks]

All that gum showing reminds me of a horse.

[NikSac]

Maybe it's the only way she can get her eyebrows into that "surprise!" look she loves so much.

[MichaelaRae]

I abhor the Duggars as much as the next (sane) person, but some of us are just gummy smilers. I look like a head full of gums and teeth in every picture I ever take.

[Sew Sumi]

I didn't say anything about her gums making her look old. The rest of her face does that just fine. 

[kalamac]

Holy crap though, Izzy in pink overalls! Or is that faded red? Either way, I'm sure that would have been frowned upon in the TTH, what with pink being a girl colour.

[Jynnan tonnix]

32 minutes ago, MichaelaRae said:

I abhor the Duggars as much as the next (sane) person, but some of us are just gummy smilers. I look like a head full of gums and teeth in every picture I ever take.

If it helps, I actually have always found gummy smiles rather endearing :)

[ariel]

I  think Mr Ed ( the talking horse) had a much nicer gummy smile than Jill.

[sometimesy]

1 hour ago, kalamac said:

Holy crap though, Izzy in pink overalls! Or is that faded red? Either way, I'm sure that would have been frowned upon in the TTH, what with pink being a girl colour.

I think it's red pinstripe (ticking). Jill and her Joker eyebrows. ugh

It was nice of their mission to throw a party annually for the local ladies, but I still don't understand if they work for a mission, have housing from a mission, why do they still ask for donations. Where do those donations go? Flights to and fro for themselves and their relatives possibly. I can't get over the traffic back and forth. Seriously, hey Jer do you mind picking up some milk? It's that often. 

Edited May 4, 2016 by sometimesy

[Jynnan tonnix]

9 hours ago, kalamac said:

Holy crap though, Izzy in pink overalls! Or is that faded red? Either way, I'm sure that would have been frowned upon in the TTH, what with pink being a girl colour.

Agree with Sometimesy that it looks like red & white ticking. The comment on faded red makes me think of a shirt my husband once got himself, though. I was rather surprised to see him buy a pink shirt as he's always been pretty conservative, but he informed me that it was NOT pink; it was "bleached burgundy". Alrighty, then...

[Lemur]

It's say red and white seersucker myself.  But yeah, close enough to pink to be concerning for the parentals in AR.

[Annb67]

Jill looks short a few beans in that picture. I will see myself out.....

[kokapetl]

Geena Davis has a bad tooth to gum ratio, yet she is (or was) stunning. 

Jill's just not a looker in the slightest. 

[momofsquid]

IMO the biggest problem with that picture is that she's trying to do the wide-eyed, raised eyebrow thing while she's squinting from the sun. You gotta choose one or the other, Jilly.

[flyingdi]

Wow, Izzy really is the spitting image of his mom!

[Aja]

Even if Jill looked like Julianne Moore's stunt double, her hateful, ignorant, superior, thick-as-a-brick, famewhoring, dishonest, grifting schtick keeps her squarely in the 'extremely unattractive' camp for me, along with most of her sisters and her mother.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Aja

[JoanArc]

Quote

Geena Davis has a bad tooth to gum ratio, yet she is (or was) stunning. 

She's in Mensa. It shows in her face. Jill? No so much.

[Jellybeans]

I cannot complain about anyone's smile... I mean it is a smile.  I have known too many non-smiling people in my lifetime.  Just saying.  :-)

[Clemgo3165]

I think Jill looks fine. Gummy smile and raised eyebrows and all. She looks like she's happy and I'm glad she's away from the compound.

[Joe Jitsu913]

On 5/4/2016 at 10:16 PM, Sew Sumi said:

Jill looks like she's 40. 

Jill looks like she's trying really hard not to queef.

[Sew Sumi]

Now that I've seen the episode, and this pic again, I am really questioning their so-called "modesty" standards. All of Jill's shirts (aside from the men's tees) have plunging necklines so severe that most sinners wouldn't even wear them. Does she have to do that just to add an additional layer of clothing in a tropical climate just to prove how modest she is? I am currently wearing a v-neck tee that is so high cut that it barely shows my collarbones. And by barely, I mean it doesn't at all. I submit to the jury the evidence that 95% of my tops are sufficiently cut not to need a second layer under them to conform to ANY modesty standard (and Jill's has actually gotten looser). Therefore, I am actually more modest than Jill. I feel horrible for her, because that second layer isn't even a sports bra; it's way too thin. 

Honey, there's nothing wrong with high v-necks or round neck tops to cut down a layer. Hell, my legs are white as paste (out of the sun because Skin Cancer), but in that climate, I'd go Duggar skirts/dresses if only for some air. I do that here in NoCal, and when it's hot it's dry heat. 

And herein ends my sympathy for Jill. I still can't get a read on whether she's growing up or just doing what she's done all of her life. 

[Micks Picks]

I'm with you , Sew Sumi.  I never layer anything.  I put on a top that doesn't need something under it.  I've never understood the layering thing.  My sister does it a lot and she looks old.  I wear sundresses when it's hot.  They are so much better.  Never wrinkle, heck you could sleep in them and get up and go to work.  They are so much easier and more comfortable than those tight shorts, yoga pants.  When culottes on in fashion I buy the kinds that look like a skirt with the pants under them.  But I haven't seen them for a couple of years at least.

[kassygreene]

Layering is for being in and out of doors in a cold climate, or for living in a climate where the temperature can change by 20 degrees or (much) more between the time you go out in the morning and return at night.  There's nothing modest about a shirt under a shirt because the one shirt has an immodest neckline.  Just wear the modest shirt!  If the fabric is too thin or the fit too tight, get it a size bigger!

Learn to sew and make perfect modest outfits!

[MunichNark]

They don't have standards, they just adjust as and when they feel like it.

I do get the layering at times, sometimes I like a shirt and you can't just get something with a higher cut neck, so I put something underneath it. I hate plunging necklines, even with TShirts, but current fashion dictates a somewhat bigger neckline than I like, so I layer. (If anyone has an idea of where to get high cut TShirts......)

Jill has zero sense of how to dress. She flings on her clothes any old how, with no regards to colour, fit or if they suit. Miss Smuggette aka Jessa just wears tight stuff.

You don't have to dress dowdy or weirdly to be modest, and modesty has nothing to do with the way you dress anyway.

[Absolom]

Perhaps Jill should shop Land's End.  They have some already modestly cut necklines.  Of course, they have plunging ones also.  Jill's "fashion sense" does lend itself toward the hippy or bohemian and not quite sure what she's doing.  It's funny because the sisters complained that she took the best clothes when she married.  Given their clothing situation that was a time to get her a new basic wardrobe.  I hope she returned a lot of things when she immediately got pregnant.

[GeeGolly]

23 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Now that I've seen the episode, and this pic again, I am really questioning their so-called "modesty" standards. All of Jill's shirts (aside from the men's tees) have plunging necklines so severe that most sinners wouldn't even wear them. Does she have to do that just to add an additional layer of clothing in a tropical climate just to prove how modest she is? I am currently wearing a v-neck tee that is so high cut that it barely shows my collarbones. And by barely, I mean it doesn't at all. I submit to the jury the evidence that 95% of my tops are sufficiently cut not to need a second layer under them to conform to ANY modesty standard (and Jill's has actually gotten looser). Therefore, I am actually more modest than Jill. I feel horrible for her, because that second layer isn't even a sports bra; it's way too thin. 

Honey, there's nothing wrong with high v-necks or round neck tops to cut down a layer. Hell, my legs are white as paste (out of the sun because Skin Cancer), but in that climate, I'd go Duggar skirts/dresses if only for some air. I do that here in NoCal, and when it's hot it's dry heat. 

And herein ends my sympathy for Jill. I still can't get a read on whether she's growing up or just doing what she's done all of her life. 

I layer, except for in the summer. I call my bottom layer a nipple guard, because sometimes my double lined, unpadded bra does not do the trick. Summer time can be difficult too, when coming in from the heat into air conditioning with no under-layer.

On the last episode Jill was wearing some brown under-layer. It looked as if she had it on backwards, because something funky was going on at the neckline.

[Barb23]

10 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I layer, except for in the summer. I call my bottom layer a nipple guard, because sometimes my double lined, unpadded bra does not do the trick. Summer time can be difficult too, when coming in from the heat into air conditioning with no under-layer.

On the last episode Jill was wearing some brown under-layer. It looked as if she had it on backwards, because something funky was going on at the neckline.

I noticed Jill's backwards looking funky neckline too.  Maybe she got dressed in the dark & didn't realize it. (Even tho one usually notices if your neckline doesn't feel or lay right.)   I never gave it much thought how hot & uncomfortable it must be wearing double layers in CA plus dealing with layers while nursing until discussed here.  We all have those shirts that make you feel hot no matter what, incl the man type T-shirts she seems to wear a lot. But then she doesn't have to wear a layer underneath when she wears those.   I guess it's just embedded in her mind that she must automatically wear double layers, except when pregnant.

[louannems]

 

My daughter feeds her dog kibble out of a dispenser like this!

Derick feeds the poor natives. 

[louannems]

I'm being lazy and just watched a couple TLC web videos.  Jill tells her family over Skype that she needs a crockpot, yet when Jessa arrives and Jill gives a house tour, there is clearly one, in a corner, on the kitchen counter.

[NewDigs]

9 minutes ago, louannems said:

I'm being lazy and just watched a couple TLC web videos.  Jill tells her family over Skype that she needs a crockpot, yet when Jessa arrives and Jill gives a house tour, there is clearly one, in a corner, on the kitchen counter.

The lord giveth?

[riverblue22]

5 minutes ago, NewDigs said:

The lord giveth?

Walmart C.A. carries crockpots after all!  I bet they sell diapers and toddler clothes too!

[NewDigs]

And all the crap they folded, shoved and stomped into duffels, and paid extra baggage fees, to haul down their last visit.

[Marigny]

I still say they aren't as cash flush as they would have us believe. Hence the hauling a shit ton of "supplies" down to CA in duffel bags. Accessibility isn't the issue. 

Edited May 8, 2016 by Marigny

[bigskygirl]

How much of the stuff for the natives in Central American actually went to the natives instead of going to Jill, Derick, and Izzy.

[NewDigs]

I've wondered same. But the Dullards couldn't personally use a gazillion kid's size backpacks. Though not sure the CA locals could either.

Giving them a shred of a benefit of doubt I'm guessing that Walmart CA prices are higher than Walmart AR prices. But extra baggage fees can really add up.

And I still want to know, Why so many backpacks?

And I did not see what they stomped into the duffels. There are limits to my TeeVeeDuggar attention. Big limits.

[Marigny]

They packed a lot of clothes for Izzy and all of the stuff that was on Jill's wish list in those duffle bags. At least, that's what they showed us. 

[NewDigs]

That was a helluva wish list. Lotsa' duffels. Hope that kid stomping them down broke something.

sorry.

[cmr2014]

One positive thought about them bringing so much stuff to Jill and Derick in Danger America is that they might be settling in to stay awhile. When they left, Derick said something about them not being back in the US for eight months -- and I certainly didn't believe they'd last that long.

They are away from the TTH, and there is at least a sliver of hope that Jill might learn something, and the two of them might forge their own bond and actually become a family in their own right.

[MunichNark]

I can't help but feel that Jill will return to the US having learnt nothing. Obviously she has to make do for now, but somehow I think she'll happily and gladly leave it behind to fall into her family's bosom so she can be as ignorant as they are.

I don't see her as wanting new experiences, wanting to learn. And Derick, well, he's turned out a massive disappointment so far