Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[Nysha]

I would rather the boys be subjected to the obedience game, which they don't think is a punishment, than getting paddled with an object for not obeying fast enough.

[GeeGolly]

14 hours ago, SMama said:

Let’s not forget Cathy proudly posing with a wooden paddle and her sons proudly showing their matching shirts. Shirts celebrating they were disciplined with a wooden paddle. 

11 hours ago, Nysha said:

I would rather the boys be subjected to the obedience game, which they don't think is a punishment, than getting paddled with an object for not obeying fast enough.

Yes, as hopeful as we all were, Cathy seems to be no prize as a parent. You don't need to be a skirt wearing Fundy to be a crappy parent. On the other hand you don't need a degree in child development to be a good parent.

There's no excuse in my book for wrapping a child like a burrito and watching them cry. Not only watching them cry, but also memorializing the moment with a photo. But that moment came from parents who later said their 1 year old needed a sibling so he'd know the world didn't revolve around him.

I think sometimes its forgotten that Jill did not directly choose to be estranged from her family. It was a result of a disagreement over money. I'm guessing most, if not all, of the Duggar 19 think they had a pretty good childhood and they see no need to vary from the script. 

 

Edited April 20, 2021 by GeeGolly

[floridamom]

Jill, Jill, Jill....when your children misbehave, you don't embarrass your child by putting it on social media for all the world to see. Your son has to go to school and face others. Jill needs to be put on social media and shamed for that herself, IMO. Not obeying fast enough IS NOT AN OFFENSE girl, get real.

[BetyBee]

This method of parenting makes me think of the Truman Show, when Truman says something like, "You were never in my head." I don't think these fundy parents have any idea of how meaningless a hasty, "Yes, Ma'am" is when a kid (probably a tween or teen) is thinking something quite different/snarky in their head!

[Zella]

56 minutes ago, BetyBee said:

"Yes, Ma'am" is when a kid (probably a tween or teen) is thinking something quite different/snarky in their head!

And depending on the way you say "Yes, Ma'am," the snark can still be made abundantly clear. :D 

[ginger90]

[QuinnInND]

That's so cute! The kids playing in the snow and making a snowman! Normal kid stuff! 

[lascuba]

On 4/20/2021 at 6:04 AM, GeeGolly said:

Yes, as hopeful as we all were, Cathy seems to be no prize as a parent. You don't need to be a skirt wearing Fundy to be a crappy parent. On the other hand you don't need a degree in child development to be a good parent.

There's no excuse in my book for wrapping a child like a burrito and watching them cry. Not only watching them cry, but also memorializing the moment with a photo. But that moment came from parents who later said their 1 year old needed a sibling so he'd know the world didn't revolve around him.

I think sometimes its forgotten that Jill did not directly choose to be estranged from her family. It was a result of a disagreement over money. I'm guessing most, if not all, of the Duggar 19 think they had a pretty good childhood and they see no need to vary from the script. 

 

You hit the nail on the head. Jill has given no indication that she disagrees with her JB and Michelle's parenting methods. Quite the opposite, actually.

On 4/19/2021 at 6:09 PM, JoanArc said:

I hope the therapist bring this up. Its reverting back to a shitty pattern.

She's likely seeing a therapist that's openly Christian enough to make Jill comfortable, so it's doubtful that they'd bring it up as a problem.

[Tikichick]

Some people have a natural affinity for understanding and relating to children.  Others, such as Derick, find it difficult to relate and understand things such as why children cannot grasp concepts that have been from their perspective clearly explained to them.  They see the explanation as clear and simple, not grasping that they've viewing it from an adult perspective that is beyond what a young child can process.   

Those who don 't have a natural affinity for young children may not need a degree in childhood development to parent, but familiarizing themselves with at least some basic understanding can be very helpful.   My suspicion is Derick is likely one of these people.   Knowledge doesn't guarantee someone will be a perfect parent, but I don't think it's likely that it would have a negative effect on Derick's parenting.  Seems to me any improvements would be a positive thing for the boys.

[Suzn]

2 hours ago, lascuba said:

You hit the nail on the head. Jill has given no indication that she disagrees with her JB and Michelle's parenting methods. Quite the opposite, actually.

She's likely seeing a therapist that's openly Christian enough to make Jill comfortable, so it's doubtful that they'd bring it up as a problem.

Exactly!  She is given too much credit for moving beyond the Duggar ways.

[madpsych78]

But I still think Derick sees differently than his in-laws to some degree, even if Jill doesn't, and he is the headship. I think Jill's main issues with her parents are 1) the show; and 2) Josh, and that may be what she is addressing in therapy (particularly the latter). 

I also wouldn't be surprised if Jill and Derick are trying to address their differences in therapy as well. 

[cmr2014]

2 hours ago, madpsych78 said:

But I still think Derick sees differently than his in-laws to some degree, even if Jill doesn't, and he is the headship. I think Jill's main issues with her parents are 1) the show; and 2) Josh, and that may be what she is addressing in therapy (particularly the latter). 

I also wouldn't be surprised if Jill and Derick are trying to address their differences in therapy as well. 

I think that Jill is addressing her wildly unrealistic expectations for marriage and parenthood, and I would imagine that there's still plenty of real estate there.

[GeeGolly]

7 hours ago, cmr2014 said:

I think that Jill is addressing her wildly unrealistic expectations for marriage and parenthood, and I would imagine that there's still plenty of real estate there.

I'm curious as to what makes you think Jill has any idea her expectations for marriage and parenthood are unrealistic?

From what Jill mentioned before, I was under the impression the therapist was helping the Dillards manage the fallout with her family. They talked about learning boundaries and weighing others' opinions. I don't recall her mentioning them exploring their marriage or parenting.

I wonder if either of them are still seeing a therapist.

[doodlebug]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I'm curious as to what makes you think Jill has any idea her expectations for marriage and parenthood are unrealistic?

From what Jill mentioned before, I was under the impression the therapist was helping the Dillards manage the fallout with her family. They talked about learning boundaries and weighing others' opinions. I don't recall her mentioning them exploring their marriage or parenting.

I wonder if either of them are still seeing a therapist.

I doubt they're still getting therapy.  I don't see either one of them as the sort who would want ongoing therapy.  Which is fine, most people who see therapists do so intermittently, as issues arise.  I could see them going back for an occasional 'tune-up' which is how many people approach therapy.

I do think Jill had unrealistic expectations from marriage, and that that was at least part of her problem with Derick.  She was raised to believe that her parents had the perfect marriage and that, if she followed the rules, she'd have a marriage exactly like theirs.  But, she's not Michelle and Derick is not Jim Bob.  Derick also, having lived out in the real world, probably had a more flexible view of married life.  I can see them approaching therapy to hash out that as part of the boundaries discussion as Jill realized that her parents aren't perfect and that her marriage doesn't have to look like theirs.

[Tikichick]

5 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

I doubt they're still getting therapy.  I don't see either one of them as the sort who would want ongoing therapy.  Which is fine, most people who see therapists do so intermittently, as issues arise.  I could see them going back for an occasional 'tune-up' which is how many people approach therapy.

I do think Jill had unrealistic expectations from marriage, and that that was at least part of her problem with Derick.  She was raised to believe that her parents had the perfect marriage and that, if she followed the rules, she'd have a marriage exactly like theirs.  But, she's not Michelle and Derick is not Jim Bob.  Derick also, having lived out in the real world, probably had a more flexible view of married life.  I can see them approaching therapy to hash out that as part of the boundaries discussion as Jill realized that her parents aren't perfect and that her marriage doesn't have to look like theirs.

I feel like somehow they've finally come to an understanding of how their marriage is going to work, because it seems Jill has finally come to an acceptance of the idea that she and Derick aren't going to be together 24/7 or on a whim.   It seemed like she really struggled with the fact that there were time he wasn't around, and he seemed to struggle with the clinginess.   It seems they may have reached understanding on that front.   

[GeeGolly]

15 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

I doubt they're still getting therapy.  I don't see either one of them as the sort who would want ongoing therapy.  Which is fine, most people who see therapists do so intermittently, as issues arise.  I could see them going back for an occasional 'tune-up' which is how many people approach therapy.

I do think Jill had unrealistic expectations from marriage, and that that was at least part of her problem with Derick.  She was raised to believe that her parents had the perfect marriage and that, if she followed the rules, she'd have a marriage exactly like theirs.  But, she's not Michelle and Derick is not Jim Bob.  Derick also, having lived out in the real world, probably had a more flexible view of married life.  I can see them approaching therapy to hash out that as part of the boundaries discussion as Jill realized that her parents aren't perfect and that her marriage doesn't have to look like theirs.

I agree Jill's expectations of marriage and parenthood are unrealistic, but I don't know that Derick or Jill realize this. I never saw any indication that either were unsatisfied with their marriage. 

Derick likely only saw a few marriages in the real world. Mostly relatives I assume. As an adult, he spent 4 years at college and one year in Nepal. I doubt he was paying much attention to marriages during that time.

As far as the clinginess that gets mentioned a lot. I think Derick enjoyed and still enjoys it.

[lascuba]

4 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I agree Jill's expectations of marriage and parenthood are unrealistic, but I don't know that Derick or Jill realize this. I never saw any indication that either were unsatisfied with their marriage. 

Derick likely only saw a few marriages in the real world. Mostly relatives I assume. As an adult, he spent 4 years at college and one year in Nepal. I doubt he was paying much attention to marriages during that time.

As far as the clinginess that gets mentioned a lot. I think Derick enjoyed and still enjoys it.

I've always thought that Jill was/is dissatisfied with everything but her marriage.  She didn't get the births she wanted. Motherhood wasn't as satisfying as sistermomhood was (probably because she wasn't competing with anyone for title of best daughter/sistermom anymore). Being a missionary wasn't what she thought it would be. Her family was no longer the darling public face of fundamentalism. She got married and bam! All her dreams and expectations of what her life would be got one hit after another.

I think (and I'm not at all attached to this opinion) that if anything, Derick was the one initially dissatisfied with marriage /Jill, but he's laid back enough as a husband that he's been able to roll with it and adjust accordingly. It helps that he has Jim Bob to be the big bad he can blame everything on.

[GeeGolly]

30 minutes ago, lascuba said:

I've always thought that Jill was/is dissatisfied with everything but her marriage.  She didn't get the births she wanted. Motherhood wasn't as satisfying as sistermomhood was (probably because she wasn't competing with anyone for title of best daughter/sistermom anymore). Being a missionary wasn't what she thought it would be. Her family was no longer the darling public face of fundamentalism. She got married and bam! All her dreams and expectations of what her life would be got one hit after another.

I think (and I'm not at all attached to this opinion) that if anything, Derick was the one initially dissatisfied with marriage /Jill, but he's laid back enough as a husband that he's been able to roll with it and adjust accordingly. It helps that he has Jim Bob to be the big bad he can blame everything on.

I think Jill and Derick have faced some surprises and disappointments these last 5 or 6 years, but wouldn't think they would blame in on their marriage. Just because their dreams didn't all work out doesn't mean they're incompatible, or they don't love and like each other. 

 

[ginger90]

[Lady Whistleup]

It's good that she's taking Fenna out on walks. Many people think a backyard is enough. It's not. Dogs need nature walks because they are very inquisitive and always want to smell new smells and see new things.

[Madtown]

Jill is posting so much about stress lately. Is it because of Fenna and training a pup? She hasn't posted this much about stress in a long time.

[emmawoodhouse]

1 minute ago, Madtown said:

Jill is posting so much about stress lately. Is it because of Fenna and training a pup? She hasn't posted this much about stress in a long time.

Derelict has finals now. I think that's taking a toll since he's not available to help her in any capacity.

[BigBingerBro]

[Absolom]

1 hour ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Derelict has finals now. I think that's taking a toll since he's not available to help her in any capacity.

Just wait until the last weeks before the bar.  He may have bar prep going now along with finals.  

[emmawoodhouse]

1 minute ago, Absolom said:

Just wait until the last weeks before the bar.  He may have bar prep going now along with finals.  

I'm sure he does. He's already said he plans to take the bar in July. 

[iwantcookies]

I had chick fil a a few times it’s not that great. Regular fast food nothing special.

[Zella]

Are U of A finals actually happening now? They were always May when I was there. But law school finals might require more prep, so maybe he is starting his studying. I didn't take that many finals in my lit program, actually. 

[emmawoodhouse]

9 minutes ago, Zella said:

Are U of A finals actually happening now? They were always May when I was there. But law school finals might require more prep, so maybe he is starting his studying. I didn't take that many finals in my lit program, actually. 

I wonder if 3L ends sooner to give them more time to study for the bar?

[Zella]

6 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

I wonder if 3L ends sooner to give them more time to study for the bar?

It's certainly possible! The law school was definitely its own thing. My impression of them was that everything was pretty centralized to the law school building, which was quite unusual. Or at least very different than my experience. They even had their own special coffee shop. (Which we crashed all the time. LOL) 

[ginger90]

[Zella]

9 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

Just coming to post that discovery! Thank you!

For comparison, the regular academic calendar for the U of A has finals being May 3-7 and last day of classes April 29, which sounds about right to me. 

[emmawoodhouse]

So he could have a final as soon as Monday. Looks like Jill could be on her own for a while, given that their finals stretch over two weeks. 

[Portia]

2 hours ago, iwantcookies said:

I had chick fil a a few times it’s not that great. Regular fast food nothing special.

Speak for yourself, friendo! I clearly remember my first Chik-Fil-A at age 18. The heavens opened and angels sang. I try to avoid that business on moral grounds, but it's a struggle.

Edited April 24, 2021 by Portia

[GeeGolly]

I wonder what life will look like for the Dillards after Derick passes the bar. Has Derick matured enough now to settle into a job? In the (almost) 6 years they've been married, TLC was his longest employment, and that was only part-time for about 3 years. Most folks can't make it to age 32 with only one year of full time employment under their belt, even more so a parent of two.

According to Google, starting salaries for lawyers can be as low as $30k. An article in Forbes has Arkansas as the 4th lowest state on the pay scale. If their settlement money is gone, it seems to me shit is going to get real for the Dillard family.

[floridamom]

I think Jill is reacting over the top with Derick studying for finals. How is she able to cope with life? Everyone who is in school at any level has finals at the end of the year. Jill has never had any of these things in her life. The Duggar Academy ran on its own evaluation. Everyone "graduated" regardless of their performance, IMO. Have we ever heard of any Duggar child not proceeding to the next grade level? No.

How is Jill going to handle Derick immediately studying for the Arkansas Bar Exam? This, my friends, is more intense than finals. Jill needs to realize that she did not grow up in the real world. My opinion is that she really isn't an asset in Derick's life. He has to carry her through it most of the time. 

[madpsych78]

I wonder if law school is ending a little earlier this year because of the pandemic, especially if U of A didn't give a spring break. That was certainly the case for University of North Texas...semester ending in late April rather than mid-May like in the past.

[rue721]

5 hours ago, floridamom said:

My opinion is that she really isn't an asset in Derick's life. He has to carry her through it most of the time. 

I dunno, I doubt Derick does much childcare or even does much around the house. I don't think Jill is some amazing home maker, but without her, Derick would just be holed up in some lonely, dirty bachelor pad.

It's possible that Jill and the kids are in survival mode not because Derick can't help as much as usual but rather because Derick is super stressed out and therefore a total pain to live with. Also, intense studying or intense work of any kind is TOTALLY foreign to Jill, so she's probably extra bewildered by Derick's stress and time pressure and therefore stressed out herself.

[Lady Whistleup]

I think Jill is so needy that Derick needs some space to study for the finals/bar exam. And since he can't exactly ship Jill off to TTH for a few days with the kids he's hoping that having Izzy and Sam be with Cathy will make Jill less needy. 

[Lisa418722]

8 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I wonder what life will look like for the Dillards after Derick passes the bar. Has Derick matured enough now to settle into a job? In the (almost) 6 years they've been married, TLC was his longest employment, and that was only part-time for about 3 years. Most folks can't make it to age 32 with only one year of full time employment under their belt, even more so a parent of two.

According to Google, starting salaries for lawyers can be as low as $30k. An article in Forbes has Arkansas as the 4th lowest state on the pay scale. If their settlement money is gone, it seems to me shit is going to get real for the Dillard family.

I can't help but wonder if in a year or two Derick will be tired of trying to reach his billable hours and will decide it's time to go back to school and try something else.  I hope not.  i would love to see Derick (after Sammy goes to school) encourage Jill to further her education.  

[BigBingerBro]

1 hour ago, Lisa418722 said:

I can't help but wonder if in a year or two Derick will be tired of trying to reach his billable hours and will decide it's time to go back to school and try something else.  I hope not.  i would love to see Derick (after Sammy goes to school) encourage Jill to further her education.  

I wonder if he's still going to try to do something in Missions.  I'm not sure what he could do with a law degree and missions, but I can't beleive that itch to travel and live abroad is competely gone...

[Fosca]

1 minute ago, BigBingerBro said:

I wonder if he's still going to try to do something in Missions.  I'm not sure what he could do with a law degree and missions, but I can't beleive that itch to travel and live abroad is competely gone...

If they are deliberately not having more kids (and I'm still not convinced that's the case), maybe it's because if they go overseas it'll be easier to do so without an infant.

[Westiepeach]

1 hour ago, Lisa418722 said:

I can't help but wonder if in a year or two Derick will be tired of trying to reach his billable hours and will decide it's time to go back to school and try something else.  I hope not.  i would love to see Derick (after Sammy goes to school) encourage Jill to further her education.  

I think you are correct. So far his track record is being all in to whatever catches his eye at the time, and then soon abandons it for the next shiny thing. 🤷🏼‍♀️

[GeeGolly]

Jill and Derick both agreed they're having more kids. I wouldn't be surprised if Jill isn't pregnant a few months after Derick has a job and health insurance.

[BitterApple]

14 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

 I wouldn't be surprised if Jill isn't pregnant a few months after Derick has a job and health insurance.

I agree, and sadly I think it will be a disaster for them. It took Jill a loooongg time to get the hang of being a SAHM. Derick is often brusque and impatient with the boys. I can't see Jill managing a newborn, sleepless nights, Izzy's school routine, the house and a dog while Derick works long hours. I think she'll end up right back where she was post-Joshgate.

[cmr2014]

23 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Jill and Derick both agreed they're having more kids. I wouldn't be surprised if Jill isn't pregnant a few months after Derick has a job and health insurance.

I didn't watch the video, but didn't they say that they were both "open" to having more children? That's a lot less certain than definitely having more.

This may be a discussion that they tabled while Derick was in law school that will resurface the day after he graduates, or passes the bar.

I say this about all of them, but there is no reason for these two to get back on the baby train. Derick doesn't seem to like small children, and I think that Jill likes being a mom a lot less than she expected.

I know that her role as a "Breeder for Jesus" has been drilled into her since early childhood and concepts like "we don't want more" or "we can't handle more" probably don't really register with her, so who knows.

[Westiepeach]

38 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I agree, and sadly I think it will be a disaster for them. It took Jill a loooongg time to get the hang of being a SAHM. Derick is often brusque and impatient with the boys. I can't see Jill managing a newborn, sleepless nights, Izzy's school routine, the house and a dog while Derick works long hours. I think she'll end up right back where she was post-Joshgate.

Agreed. Unfortunately.

[Jynnan tonnix]

4 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I agree, and sadly I think it will be a disaster for them. It took Jill a loooongg time to get the hang of being a SAHM. Derick is often brusque and impatient with the boys. I can't see Jill managing a newborn, sleepless nights, Izzy's school routine, the house and a dog while Derick works long hours. I think she'll end up right back where she was post-Joshgate.

It's a sad prediction, but may well end up proving to be true. I can't help but be a bit optimistic for them, though. It seems as though they have come so far  in the ways of self awareness and discipline in the past couple of years that they at least have a jumping-off point for when and if things start getting a bit hairy again...

 

[cmr2014]

I think someone planted a seed with Derick a few years ago that there were ways to serve the Lord without being a missionary. It's possible that Jill was counseled at the same time that there were ways to serve the Lord other than birthing 20 children. It's possible, right?

[Temperance]

3 hours ago, cmr2014 said:

I think someone planted a seed with Derick a few years ago that there were ways to serve the Lord without being a missionary. It's possible that Jill was counseled at the same time that there were ways to serve the Lord other than birthing 20 children. It's possible, right?

I doubt they'll have anywhere close to 20 children, probably closer to five kids.

[Future Cat Lady]

Derick is not from a quiverfull family/religion. He may have flirted with the idea when he married Jill, but the reality of quickly having two kids hit him in the face. They may have another one down the line, but they’re not going to try for a world record. same thing with the Vuolos.