Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[NoThyme]

On 4/25/2021 at 10:50 AM, QuinnInND said:

Why is she barefoot?! Eeeek. 

If you look on the floor you will see sandals. Better to be barefoot than put shoes on the light colored couch. 

[iwantcookies]

If Josh hinders Dereck from becoming a lawyer... a juicy book might be written. 

Actually I’m curious if they will address the Josh mess on social media at all.

[Jeeves]

58 minutes ago, iwantcookies said:

If Josh hinders Dereck from becoming a lawyer... a juicy book might be written. 

Actually I’m curious if they will address the Josh mess on social media at all.

Josh's arrest and whatever federal charges he's facing, should not affect Derick's admission to practice law in Arkansas. I assume that Derick is not involved in whatever business or personal situation gave rise to Josh's criminal woes, and I think that's a safe assumption. I think they aren't close, to put it mildly.

I don't find a copy of the current application for the Arkansas bar online. Applications to take the July bar exam were due on April 1, and it seems they only put the application form online in the weeks prior to the semi-annual bar exam application deadline. (BTW the bar exam is on July 1 so Derick's going from graduation to bar review studies pretty quickly, I would think.)

I did find this 2019 online recap of state-by-state "character and fitness" questions on state bar admission applications. As I expected, the Arkansas questions focus on the applicant's own personal history as to arrests, lawsuits, financial defaults, etc. Doesn't ask about your family or in-laws. If the criminal activities of a sketchy in-law in which you're not involved, could keep you from being admitted to the bar, a lot of legal careers would never have happened. 🙂

It's public knowledge that Derick and Jill have parted ways with the Duggars in several respects, even if not a complete estrangement, and are not welcome at the TTH unless with His Majesty Jim Bob's prior consent. That's not bad positioning for Derick now that Josh has been officially busted by the feds. Heh.

ETA: Depending on what Josh is charged with, there could be some taint on all his relations and in-laws when it comes to career issues, job offers, etc. Derick could pass the bar and get a law license and experience some backlash just from being Josh's BIL.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Jeeves
Left out an important "not"!

[Tikichick]

13 hours ago, Jeeves said:

Josh's arrest and whatever federal charges he's facing, should not affect Derick's admission to practice law in Arkansas. I assume that Derick is not involved in whatever business or personal situation gave rise to Josh's criminal woes, and I think that's a safe assumption. I think they aren't close, to put it mildly.

I don't find a copy of the current application for the Arkansas bar online. Applications to take the July bar exam were due on April 1, and it seems they only put the application form online in the weeks prior to the semi-annual bar exam application deadline. (BTW the bar exam is on July 1 so Derick's going from graduation to bar review studies pretty quickly, I would think.)

I did find this 2019 online recap of state-by-state "character and fitness" questions on state bar admission applications. As I expected, the Arkansas questions focus on the applicant's own personal history as to arrests, lawsuits, financial defaults, etc. Doesn't ask about your family or in-laws. If the criminal activities of a sketchy in-law in which you're not involved, could keep you from being admitted to the bar, a lot of legal careers would never have happened. 🙂

It's public knowledge that Derick and Jill have parted ways with the Duggars in several respects, even if not a complete estrangement, and are not welcome at the TTH unless with His Majesty Jim Bob's prior consent. That's not bad positioning for Derick now that Josh has been officially busted by the feds. Heh.

ETA: Depending on what Josh is charged with, there could be some taint on all his relations and in-laws when it comes to career issues, job offers, etc. Derick could pass the bar and get a law license and experience some backlash just from being Josh's BIL.

I agree, but I don't think Derrick is likely to face backlash simply from being Josh's BIL.   Derrick is likely to pursue his career where they currently reside, which is also where Josh's case is actually local news and the schism with the Duggars and the Dillards is probably fairly widely known.   That may cut in Derrick's favor.

I don't doubt that some firms however will be repelled by some of Derrick's own history of repugnant statements and views.     

[BigBingerBro]

[ginger90]

[Lady Whistleup]

I feel for Jill. With what's happening to Josh she's going to relive the abuse from the media circus, and she's done so much work separating herself from Josh. I hope Izzy doesn't get teased in school.

[MargeGunderson]

I can’t even imagine what Jill is going through now. Between her and Jessa, she had the most emotional reaction in the interview they did about Josh. This has to bring up such painful memories for her. As weird as this sounds, I hope this validates her experience in some way. I think she felt like it was a big deal but it was downplayed by her parents, and she had to go along with it. It was a big deal, and I think these latest charges put that beyond a shadow of a doubt. 

[beckie]

Sam is so cute.

 

I feel for Jill, too. This has to be very triggering for her, I'd bet.

[GeeGolly]

4 minutes ago, MargeGunderson said:

I can’t even imagine what Jill is going through now. Between her and Jessa, she had the most emotional reaction in the interview they did about Josh. This has to bring up such painful memories for her. As weird as this sounds, I hope this validates her experience in some way. I think she felt like it was a big deal but it was downplayed by her parents, and she had to go along with it. It was a big deal, and I think these latest charges put that beyond a shadow of a doubt. 

If she does come to that conclusion it will likely make Jill feel very guilty.

[Annb67]

15 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

If she does come to that conclusion it will likely make Jill feel very guilty.

I hope she doesn’t ever feel guilty. I felt so bad for her. She was deeply hurting and her smug-ass sister just sat there like a bitch.

Also, I’m glad she had some time with just her husband this morning. She probably knew what was coming and I’m happy her husband was there for her. 

Edited April 30, 2021 by Annb67

[GeeGolly]

Just now, Annb67 said:

I hope she doesn’t ever feel guilty. I felt so bad for her. She was deeply hurting and her smug-ass sister just sat there like a bitch. 

Hopefully, for her sake, she doesn't connect the two, but if she does she'll need a therapist to work through it. 

[iwantcookies]

How nice that she has a sweet friend that buys her stuff. 

[Slakkie]

Whatever anyone thinks of the girls that were abused - they need support and they need kindness.  I wish I could buy her a cup of coffee as well.  THEY do not deserve this.

[Jeeves]

18 minutes ago, Annb67 said:

I hope she doesn’t ever feel guilty. I felt so bad for her. She was deeply hurting and her smug-ass sister just sat there like a bitch.

Also, I’m glad she had some time with just her husband this morning. She probably knew what was coming and I’m happy her husband was there for her. 

I liked her SM post about the coffee. It showed her knees (you go, girl!), and that she's out of f*cks to give about Josh. It's like, "Who cares if that guy's in jail?  Doesn't bother me a bit. I'm having a nice coffee date with my man here, thanks to a kind friend who made it possible." 

ETA: I'm sure she has her own feelings about all of it, but I like that she doesn't feel obliged to talk about it on her SM. She and Derick issued a short statement yesterday - they were surprised, and it's so sad - and I give her props for leaving it at that. 

Edited April 30, 2021 by Jeeves
Another thought

[anna0852]

I'm really glad now that Fenna is with them. Dogs are amazing for unconditional love and comfort. Jill is going to need it!

[JAYJAY1979]

I'm hoping Jill doesn't speak on it... at least at the moment.

Her Instagram posts show her being a mom, having fun shopping, supporting her cousin's business, and lots of family time with hubby and kids.  

And I'm hoping Derrick is being supportive and doesn't go off on Twitter about it.  It would cause needless stress for Jill.

And I do remember the interview with Megyn Kelly...and thinking that both Jessa and Jill were both still affected by what happened..just were expressing it differently.  Of the two, I figured Jill would be the one to deal with it because she was expressing emotion and not bottling it up like Jessa.  If that makes sense.

[mynextmistake]

I’ve been critical of Jill in the past. But it has been so refreshing to see her and her family taking steps toward a more normal life over the past couple years; enrolling Izzy in public school, buying a regular house with a mortgage, spending less time with her family, going to therapy… I think it is clear that Jill has become a stronger person and is at least beginning to come to terms with the fact that her upbringing was completely messed up.

If she reads here, I want her to know that today I, for one, am having nothing but positive thoughts for her, she and her family will be in my prayers, and that none of this is her fault. A lot of us out here are survivors, Jill, and we’ve got your back.

[Lady Whistleup]

I also hope that Fenna will stay strong for Jill. That's the awesome thing about dogs -- the unconditional, no-bullshit love.

[jcbrown]

36 minutes ago, mynextmistake said:

I’ve been critical of Jill in the past. But it has been so refreshing to see her and her family taking steps toward a more normal life over the past couple years; enrolling Izzy in public school, buying a regular house with a mortgage, spending less time with her family, going to therapy… I think it is clear that Jill has become a stronger person and is at least beginning to come to terms with the fact that her upbringing was completely messed up.

If she reads here, I want her to know that today I, for one, am having nothing but positive thoughts for her, she and her family will be in my prayers, and that none of this is her fault. A lot of us out here are survivors, Jill, and we’ve got your back.

Very well said. I feel exactly the same way.

[LexieLily]

I don't know how many of the siblings talk to Jill these days but I do wish that Jill's therapist would offer up services to all of Jill's siblings, whether or not they decide to take advantage.

[GeeGolly]

1 minute ago, LexieLily said:

I don't know how many of the siblings talk to Jill these days but I do wish that Jill's therapist would offer up services to all of Jill's siblings, whether or not they decide to take advantage.

The sentiment is sweet, but really sisters should not be seeing the same therapist.

[Trillium]

If I was Jill I’d be fighting the urge to call JB and Mechelle and scream “I had to be granted permission to come to the house, but my abuser, a pedophile could come and go as he pleases? This is why I’m done with you motherfuckers.”

I hope this solidifies her decision to break from them. 

Edited April 30, 2021 by Trillium

[LexieLily]

13 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

The sentiment is sweet, but really sisters should not be seeing the same therapist.

True. I meant more so that she could refer them to someone else if needed.

[dargosmydaddy]

5 hours ago, iwantcookies said:

How nice that she has a sweet friend that buys her stuff. 

I read it as the sweet friend gave Jill the ability to go on the coffee date with Derrick, presumably by watching Sam, not by giving them the coffee. 

[Jeeves]

1 minute ago, dargosmydaddy said:

I read it as the sweet friend gave Jill the ability to go on the coffee date with Derrick, presumably by watching Sam, not by giving them the coffee. 

I thought the same thing.

[JoanArc]

1 hour ago, dargosmydaddy said:

I read it as the sweet friend gave Jill the ability to go on the coffee date with Derrick, presumably by watching Sam, not by giving them the coffee. 

I figured someone mailed her a Starbucks gift card.

[MissT]

As much as I think Derrick is a bit strange.   I think he's been good for Jill.  I think he truly loves her.   He's removed her from the chaos.  She seems happy and has come into her own.  If she seems a bit juvenile at times I would give her a break.  I think she's had a lot of trauma in her life, things we may not know about.      She seems to love her children and her husband.  I think people including myself didn't give her or Derrick enough credit a few years ago.    

[dargosmydaddy]

1 hour ago, JoanArc said:

I figured someone mailed her a Starbucks gift card.

Equally possible! It is phrased pretty vaguely.

[cmr2014]

I've posted before that I hoped that Derick and Jill were done having kids, but I especially hope so now.

Jill has talked in the past about how she felt her parents did a good job dealing with Josh and how she would implement some of the same rules (she didn't state them explicitly, but no touching, and locks on the bedrooms come to mind).

If they had a daughter, I fear that Jill would overreact and essentially harass and punish Izzy non-stop to prevent him from becoming like Josh.

They all seem happy now, and the hostility that they both initially projected toward Izzy seems to have abated. I'd hate to see that come back.

[JAYJAY1979]

47 minutes ago, cmr2014 said:

I've posted before that I hoped that Derick and Jill were done having kids, but I especially hope so now.

Jill has talked in the past about how she felt her parents did a good job dealing with Josh and how she would implement some of the same rules (she didn't state them explicitly, but no touching, and locks on the bedrooms come to mind).

If they had a daughter, I fear that Jill would overreact and essentially harass and punish Izzy non-stop to prevent him from becoming like Josh.

They all seem happy now, and the hostility that they both initially projected toward Izzy seems to have abated. I'd hate to see that come back.

I was wondering how Jill would fare if they opted to have baby #3 and it was a girl.  She would most likely need therapy.

Speaking of which, Jessa had a baby girl 2 years ago or so.  I wonder if Jessa had any issues.

[emmawoodhouse]

39 minutes ago, JAYJAY1979 said:

I was wondering how Jill would fare if they opted to have baby #3 and it was a girl.  She would most likely need therapy.

Speaking of which, Jessa had a baby girl 2 years ago or so.  I wonder if Jessa had any issues.

Jessa publicly swept it all under the rug, saying it was "light touching" and that Smuggar was "sly." I think she's convinced herself that's true and won't put extra guidelines on her sons regarding Ivy and any other potential daughters to come.

[mynextmistake]

1 hour ago, cmr2014 said:

I've posted before that I hoped that Derick and Jill were done having kids, but I especially hope so now.

Jill has talked in the past about how she felt her parents did a good job dealing with Josh and how she would implement some of the same rules (she didn't state them explicitly, but no touching, and locks on the bedrooms come to mind).

If they had a daughter, I fear that Jill would overreact and essentially harass and punish Izzy non-stop to prevent him from becoming like Josh.

They all seem happy now, and the hostility that they both initially projected toward Izzy seems to have abated. I'd hate to see that come back.

I think Jill has changed a lot since she made those statements, though. She’s distanced from her family and has entered therapy. She’s talked about establishing healthier boundaries and has gotten much more vocal about the fact that she is doing many things differently from her parents (limiting family size, sending kids to public school, attending a normal SBC church). I would be surprised if she still held those beliefs today.

I think Derick has changed too. I think going to a secular law school and doing internships at the public defender’s office and the Clinton foundation have possibly opened his mind about some things. They’re still conservative, and they probably always will be, but I don’t think there’s any doubt that they’ve changed. They are leading much, much more mainstream lives than I ever would have expected. I just don’t see them locking their daughters (if they have any) in their rooms or forcing Izzy and Sam to have accountability partners. 

[cmr2014]

33 minutes ago, mynextmistake said:

I think Jill has changed a lot since she made those statements, though. She’s distanced from her family and has entered therapy. She’s talked about establishing healthier boundaries and has gotten much more vocal about the fact that she is doing many things differently from her parents (limiting family size, sending kids to public school, attending a normal SBC church). I would be surprised if she still held those beliefs today.

I think Derick has changed too. I think going to a secular law school and doing internships at the public defender’s office and the Clinton foundation have possibly opened his mind about some things. They’re still conservative, and they probably always will be, but I don’t think there’s any doubt that they’ve changed. They are leading much, much more mainstream lives than I ever would have expected. I just don’t see them locking their daughters (if they have any) in their rooms or forcing Izzy and Sam to have accountability partners. 

I hope that's true, and I hope that Jill's therapy has given her the insight to see that something might "trigger" her and cause her to act irrationally.

[emmawoodhouse]

4 minutes ago, cmr2014 said:

I hope that's true, and I hope that Jill's therapy has given her the insight to see that something might "trigger" her and cause her to act irrationally.

If she starts acting irrationally, Derick is there to hopefully pull her back to normalcy. I think he used to defer parenting decisions to Jill because of her sister mom experience but is more hands-on these days, possibly at Jill's request? Whatever they're doing, it has improved their family immensely. 

There is hope that this latest incident has put baby #3 on hold or even shelved permanently. Even without the incident, I don't know how well Jill would do with another baby. 

[BitterApple]

I think Jill is in a pretty good position. She's had several years of physical and emotional distance from Josh, her parents and the TTH. Her livelihood is no longer tied to the show. She's in therapy. She appears to have supportive friends. She has a normal-ish Duggar ally in Amy. Her husband is fully aware that her family is a toxic mess. I'm sure she's upset by the arrest, but she's probably coping better than her sisters; and at least this time around she won't be called on to save the sinking ship.

Edited May 1, 2021 by BitterApple

[SMama]

25 minutes ago, cmr2014 said:

I hope that's true, and I hope that Jill's therapy has given her the insight to see that something might "trigger" her and cause her to act irrationally.

On the Q&A video when Jill revealed she had not visited the TTH in about two years they both talked about triggers. IIRC, Derick stated that house had too many triggers, Jill said triggers as well.  They both talked about boundaries, and making their mental health a priority. Fingers crossed 🤞. 

[Slakkie]

7 hours ago, SMama said:

On the Q&A video when Jill revealed she had not visited the TTH in about two years they both talked about triggers. IIRC, Derick stated that house had too many triggers, Jill said triggers as well.  They both talked about boundaries, and making their mental health a priority. Fingers crossed 🤞. 

Five years ago if you had told me Jill would be the most normal I would have laughed.  I am very proud of her and Derick.  Hopefully the other siblings / in-laws will call them up and ask how they did it and work their way out.  

 

[madpsych78]

9 hours ago, mynextmistake said:

I think Jill has changed a lot since she made those statements, though. She’s distanced from her family and has entered therapy. She’s talked about establishing healthier boundaries and has gotten much more vocal about the fact that she is doing many things differently from her parents (limiting family size, sending kids to public school, attending a normal SBC church). I would be surprised if she still held those beliefs today.

I think Derick has changed too. I think going to a secular law school and doing internships at the public defender’s office and the Clinton foundation have possibly opened his mind about some things. They’re still conservative, and they probably always will be, but I don’t think there’s any doubt that they’ve changed. They are leading much, much more mainstream lives than I ever would have expected. I just don’t see them locking their daughters (if they have any) in their rooms or forcing Izzy and Sam to have accountability partners. 

On one of the other threads, there was a link to a video on Facebook with someone who was formerly from ATI who shared her experiences. She shared that ATI/IBLP placed a strong emphasis on the evils of public school. So the fact that Jill has agreed to send Israel to public school is very huge. 

[BetyBee]

1 hour ago, madpsych78 said:

On one of the other threads, there was a link to a video on Facebook with someone who was formerly from ATI who shared her experiences. She shared that ATI/IBLP placed a strong emphasis on the evils of public school. So the fact that Jill has agreed to send Israel to public school is very huge. 

That link also mentioned shunning, which is what Jill has experienced from her family. They don't appear to have completely shunned her, but there are rules about her being at the TTH. None for Josh though, at least not yet.  ATI really is a cult and all the children, especially female children, raised in it are victims of the cult, imo. 

[Tabbygirl521]

1 hour ago, madpsych78 said:

On one of the other threads, there was a link to a video on Facebook with someone who was formerly from ATI who shared her experiences. She shared that ATI/IBLP placed a strong emphasis on the evils of public school. So the fact that Jill has agreed to send Israel to public school is very huge. 

I checked out the Facebook page of that same former ATI member and saw she also posted some of Gothard’s “training” materials regarding sexual abuse. It’s beyond nauseating. Of course all responsibility, before and after the assault, falls on the victim. 
 

https://m.facebook.com/ThrivingForwardBlog/posts/pcb.157539799705930/?photo_id=157537746372802&mds=%2Fphotos%2Fviewer%2F%3Fphotoset_token%3Dpcb.157539799705930%26photo%3D157537746372802%26profileid%3D1664983675%26source%3D49%26refid%3D17%26ref%3Dm_notif%26notif_t%3Dfeedback_reaction_generic%26_ft_%3Dmf_story_key.157539799705930%3Atop_level_post_id.157539799705930%3Atl_objid.157539799705930%3Acontent_owner_id_new.100063497325684%3Athrowback_story_fbid.157539799705930%3Apage_id.100063497325684%3Aphoto_attachments_list.[157537746372802%2C157537769706133%2C157537809706129]%3Astory_location.4%3Astory_attachment_style.album%3Atds_flgs.3%3Aott.AX_bQA4KcPuiK0V6%3Athid.100063497325684%3A306061129499414%3A2%3A0%3A1622530799%3A-7630230841747789085%26__tn__%3DEH-R%26cached_data%3Dfalse%26ftid%3D&mdp=1&mdf=1

[Slakkie]

26 minutes ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

I checked out the Facebook page of that same former ATI member and saw she also posted some of Gothard’s “training” materials regarding sexual abuse. It’s beyond nauseating. Of course all responsibility, before and after the assault, falls on the victim. 
 

I literally almost vomited.

[Madtown]

I hope any friends Jill has in the neighborhood and/or Izzy's school, remain her friends and support her. I would think most know she is a Duggar and possibly what happened to her. I hope that no one brings this up in front of the boys or to Izzy at school. Yes, he's young, but some parents speak of awful things in front of their children(witnessed this plenty).

I'm thinking that Izzy and especially Sam, probably don't know of Josh or very little, sincle Jill says they haven't been there in a couple of years.

14 hours ago, cmr2014 said:

If they had a daughter, I fear that Jill would overreact and essentially harass and punish Izzy non-stop to prevent him from becoming like Josh.

 

This makes me sad to think about. That would be almost assuming Izzy is someone he isn't, right off the bat. That child would have a horrible life. I wish Jill would ditch every last Gothard thing she learned and just let the kids be kids and grow. I'm hoping that is what they are doing. I know they've mentioned teaching them certain things, but most of those don't have to be at this young age.

 

[Lady Whistleup]

I kind of hope that this event doesn't make Jill extremely angry at her siblings for distancing themselves from her when she got banned from TTH. Not because she should have a relationship with those siblings (that's Jill's choice and no one else's), but I could see it dredging up a bunch of negativity and resentment.

[Jeeves]

1 minute ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I kind of hope that this event doesn't make Jill extremely angry at her siblings for distancing themselves from her when she got banned from TTH. Not because she should have a relationship with those siblings (that's Jill's choice and no one else's), but I could see it dredging up a bunch of negativity and resentment.

I also hope this doesn't put Jill in an emotional tailspin. Right now Derick has finished (or is about to finish) his final exams in law school and will soon graduate. Then he'll start taking a bar review course to prepare to take the Arkansas Bar Examination on July 1. So they have a "project" going on at home which might help her focus on the present.

I hope that Derick's family will celebrate Derick's graduation, and that Jill will be able to enjoy and celebrate Derick's accomplishments. I'd like to think that Derick's law school years have shown Jill how people outside the Gothard cult live and learn. I think she's come a long way from the clingy newlywed who had to drive over to Derick's office to have lunch with him every day. I really wish her well and hope that if Josh's criminal case stirs up her emotions, she'll have support from a therapist and her husband to work through them.

[BitterApple]

I imagine Jill is experiencing a lot of conflicting emotions, however that coffee date post says a lot. She's not embarrassed or hiding or rushing to join the family prayer circle at the TTH. She's doing normal things and keeping it moving. I hope Jill's at a point where she realizes Josh's sins and Josh's bad choices are Josh's responsibility alone. And if she is struggling, at least she has a professional to talk to. 

Edited May 1, 2021 by BitterApple

[BigBingerBro]

Jill is the safest from all of this really.  She is no longer dependant on the Duggar fame to support her family.  If anything, Deertick had the wisdom to make sure they will have a viable means to support themselves outside of the Duggar umbrella.  It all the others who will suffer financally from this, especially if TLC cuts them off. Jerm and Jinger most certainly will need to seriously re-brand, or maybe that's what they have been trying to do all along.....?

[Zella]

19 minutes ago, BigBingerBro said:

Jerm and Jinger most certainly will need to seriously re-brand, or maybe that's what they have been trying to do all along.....?

I suspect that's what they have been trying to do but failing miserably at. I almost get a throw-spaghetti-against-the-wall-and-see-what-sticks vibe from them. 

[BigBingerBro]

[Tuxcat]

15 minutes ago, BigBingerBro said:

I realize this has all been debated before but I don't fully understand Derick's argument. My impression is that the older adult children that choose to continue to do the show do it for a variety of reasons. First and foremost, the show provides them with continued opportunity and exposure so that they can write books, sell and shill, and be those influencers. So they do benefit from the show even if they are not fully in control of production, negotiation, money. Has Derick ever acknowledged this? 

Has he been advocating for Counting On to be cancelled even before the Josh thing?

Edited May 1, 2021 by Tuxcat
sorry, misread the date