Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[floridamom]

If Jim Bob's life truly was the "Godly open book" he has claimed it is, there would be no need for NDAs. The man has things to hide and many of them too. What a sham he and Michelle are, really.

[Rootbeer]

3 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

"YouTube content creator Emily D. Baker notes that while she doesn’t believe the arguments will stand up in court, they are creative"

Wonder if Josh and JB are delusional enough to think you get points for this.  

I think its more likely that Josh and JB have finally figured out how deep the pile of poop he's standing in is and have begged his lawyers to do whatever they can to try to get him out of this mess.  I think they've probably been schooled as to the conviction rate as well as the typical sentence that Josh is facing.  So, its Josh lawyers who are creative, and JB is going to pay them a small fortune in exchange for their creativity.  The couple of motions that are not likely to pass scrutiny are more a sign that Josh' lawyers see the limitations of defending this particular defendant in this particular case and, to quote the Pope, they're tossing a 'Hail Mary' in hopes of somehow scoring a dismissal.

[Churchhoney]

41 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

I think its more likely that Josh and JB have finally figured out how deep the pile of poop he's standing in is and have begged his lawyers to do whatever they can to try to get him out of this mess.  I think they've probably been schooled as to the conviction rate as well as the typical sentence that Josh is facing.  So, its Josh lawyers who are creative, and JB is going to pay them a small fortune in exchange for their creativity.  The couple of motions that are not likely to pass scrutiny are more a sign that Josh' lawyers see the limitations of defending this particular defendant in this particular case and, to quote the Pope, they're tossing a 'Hail Mary' in hopes of somehow scoring a dismissal.

Definitely.

From the lawyers I know, though, I get the impression that few "creative" defenses like the creative ones here actually succeed. Especially in cases like this -- that are so similar (virtually identical) to dozens and dozens of other cases that have been tried and heard by the same people just over the past few years.

I realize that not all lawyers would say that......I'm assuming Josh's lawyer would say the opposite.

What I wonder is is -- Are JB and J truly delusional enough to think that these "creative" defenses have a good chance of getting him acquitted or getting the case thrown out? Or are they just so desperate to save him that they're willing to pay enormous sums to gamble on stuff like this, even though they realize it has at best only a very slim chance of that?.....

If they were super-wealthy, I wouldn't wonder that. If you're super-wealthy, even gigantic lawyers' fees won't bother you, so why not buy as much of the lawyers' time as they have to give? 

But they aren't super-wealthy....So I'd like to know whether it's more stupidity or more desperation that's driving them to have begged for this kind of defense.

I'm always curious about what exactly drives the Duggars. And I have no real idea at all what drives Josh (except for being an all-around jerk with no empathy and super arrogant into the bargain). But in this case, for example, is Josh more awash in false hope or in horror at prison?  I.e., is he more stupid or is he more of a coward? 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2021 by Churchhoney

[ozziemom]

My take is that Josh is both stupid and smug. Nothing too bad has happened to him before, so he doesn’t have the mental capacity to imagine what might happen to him now. Living apart from his family now is no different than when he was in Jesus rehab, so I doubt the reality of his situation has sunk in.

[farmgal4]

4 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

split up, likely under no established plan, among a bunch of people, none of whom has been helped to develop the skills or the connections to actually run it.....And the "it" is an odd entity, I would bet, because I don't think much holds "it" together as one thing except for Jim Bob Ego Central.....

Meechelle gets the money first and all for herself, if she's still ticking when JB checks out.....And if she isn't.....and when she does stop ticking....even quite a bit of wealth split 19 ways doesn't give anybody a tremendous amount....especially when none of them are educated or truly stand on their own two feet career and money wise...and some of them have a gazillion kids.....(so here's hoping that only a very few have a gazillion kids -- although that would be a problem too, since they'd be absolutely certain they deserved more money than others....but would the others -- or the will -- go along with that? )

Continuing to depend -- for your livelihood and your sense of your self and of belonging -- on mommy and daddy into adulthood when you don't have to often works out kind of badly, even when the family business is a lot more coherent than this one is....

Now that it’s been mentioned, I wonder how many of the Duggar offspring are hanging onto the ridiculous beliefs of this cult just to keep from being written out of the will?  I fully believe that since Jill has left the cult, she won’t get even one rusty penny from Boob’s and Chelle’s will.  I wonder if the other offspring are afraid that the same thing will happen to them if they do the same.

[Jeeves]

13 minutes ago, farmgal4 said:

Now that it’s been mentioned, I wonder how many of the Duggar offspring are hanging onto the ridiculous beliefs of this cult just to keep from being written out of the will?  I fully believe that since Jill has left the cult, she won’t get even one rusty penny from Boob’s and Chelle’s will.  I wonder if the other offspring are afraid that the same thing will happen to them if they do the same.

I think the kidults in the TTH orbit are hanging on more because they are fine with things as they are and they rely on Duggar Enterprises for their current income, than because of thoughts of what could happen when JB dies.

JB and Meech aren't all that old, and I'd expect them to have a good few decades left in this life. If any kidult has serious doubts about the family's religious doctrines, I don't know that the idea of being disinherited 30 years from now would be a big consideration in their thoughts at this time. Fears about being cast out from the only family they've known and losing their current financial support from Duggar Enterprises, would likely be much more front of mind.

[GeeGolly]

Other than costs, Josh's pre-trial arguments benefit him. The ultimate benefit would be having the case thrown out. Otherwise the lawyers' creativity give the Duggars some built in excuses to tell others and possibly themselves.

I can see how its possible for a typical parent to twist the facts, and even more so for an enmeshed parent. I'm not really sure what JB & M think. I think its more likely Michelle has entertained the truth, than JB. But I don't see Michelle as a drugged up airhead. I see her as the leader of this dog and pony show, with some warped beliefs and brainwashing, but with her feet planted firmly on the ground and aware of everything. She probably has alternated between protecting JB and slapping him with reality throughout their marriage.

I'm sure the molestations were a hard pill to swallow, but JB & M were able to grab onto some creative thinking, to make it not so bad. Unlike many others, I don't think they really gave a shit about the Ashley Madison scandal, other than the bad optics, so for JB & M it was a tiny pill to swallow. Thinking your kid, your flesh and blood, viewed what Josh is accused of viewing is probably the hardest pill ever - for any parent, so I can see them grabbing onto their lawyers' creative arguments and holding them as truths.

[Absolom]

1 hour ago, Churchhoney said:

What I wonder is is -- Are JB and J truly delusional enough to think that these "creative" defenses have a good chance of getting him acquitted or getting the case thrown out? Or are they just so desperate to save him that they're willing to pay enormous sums to gamble on stuff like this, even though they realize it has at best only a very slim chance of that?.....

My daughter, a lawyer, and I have had that discussion a few different ways.  She isn't the type lawyer that Jim Bob hired 95% of the time.  She prefers to lay it out for the client that this motion has a .1% chance of working and will cost you about $x to prepare and defend.  If they really want to do it, she will.  Everyone is entitled to a zealous defense and a lot of people want the best or most defense that they can afford.  Some lawyers seek clients who want that kind of defense and that's the difference as my daughter sees it.  She'd rather not have the Josh/JB types as clients.  She'd rather not be filing motions that to her look like a waste of her time and the court's time and the client's money.  It's part of the job though if the client wants every teeny tiny thread pulled.  

Why JB/Josh are doing this and why they sought out a lawyer where it seems this is one of his specialties is really the question.  I don't think either JB or Josh wants to face what a creep Josh is.  I wouldn't shell out the money this is costing JB for what looks like a likely conviction.  No case is a slam dunk until it's over, but this one is not unusual at all.  I don't think Josh or the case is worth the expense, but that's my opinion.  I think JB should have said if you did it, tell me and we'll find someone to get you the best plea deal we can, but if you did the crime, you have to accept the consequences.  

I think the worst possible scenario for JB and Josh is if the lawyer does find a way to get the case tossed or bamboozles a jury.  Josh can giggle he got away with it and will continue down the path of perversion and JB will be convinced of his own wisdom and power.

Edited September 26, 2021 by Absolom

[MargeGunderson]

For the lawyers and lawyer-adjacent here, a question. If Josh (and JB) tell the lawyers to pursue some argument and the lawyers don’t, could Josh, if convicted, claim that he didn’t have adequate counsel as a way to appeal the ruling? Maybe that plays a part in the willingness of the lawyers to throw a Hail Mary.

[mythoughtis]

9 hours ago, Dianaofthehunt said:

Folks, what happens when Jim Boob dies?
Now think about that. Maybe not from old age, but keeling over from whatever.
What happens to the holy empire then?

My guess…. John David will become the CEO of it all.  There’s probably a trust of some sort for JDs’ unmarried sisters since they were not allowed to work. If you remember, they all got cars and  allowances while the boys had to work for theirs.  The married sisters won’t get anything and the brothers will work for the family businesses. Michelle will live with whichever offspring moves into the  Tinker Toy house… probably Jessa and Ben. 
Anna will get an allowance and a place to live 

Edited September 27, 2021 by mythoughtis

[hathorlive]

On 9/25/2021 at 12:31 AM, GeeGolly said:

I have a totally uneducated question about the zip file. Could they argue Josh was actually downloading something legit that had CSA on it without Josh's knowledge and the government only has a partial file?

The problem is that Josh's search terms probably indict what he was looking for. I've had suspects say in court "I don't know how those pictures got there" to which I say "searching for naked little xxx pics probably explains it" and then testify about their  search items.  He can indicate that he wasn't looking for anything bad but then he has to explain why he was on the dark web in the first place.  Because there's nothing on the dark web that legit people need.  Most of my friends are highly highly technical people who work in the computer field and not one of them has even been on the dark web.   Also, I can't remember if the zip file was one of things they found in recycle bin or not, but it shouldn't be hard to negate that.  Especially if the file name is of a known CP series, and if they have a search for that term.  I don't think most juries would buy that someone on the dark web is looking for puppies and flowers.

 

[Insert Username]

You can’t just browse the dark web. There is no google equivalent where you can do searches. You have to know exactly where you are going. There is no “accidentally” stumbling across anything there.

[Zella]

18 minutes ago, Insert Username said:

You can’t just browse the dark web. There is no google equivalent where you can do searches. You have to know exactly where you are going. There is no “accidentally” stumbling across anything there.

Yeah he downloaded a Tor browser for accessing the dark web and then even admitted to law enforcement that Tor might have been used on the computer. He can't seriously claim he didn't know the dark web browser was there. 

[madpsych78]

It sounds like a lot of planning would have had to go into place in order to access the CSAM files. 

I wonder how Josh knew these files existed though... 🤔

[quarks]

Someone on the DuggarSnark Reddit uploaded the rest of the defense's responses to the government's responses to their motions (the best thing about tomorrow's hearing is that whatever comes next should be somewhat shorter to type!

Some of my (non-lawyer) thoughts after reading them:

1. The motion to get Josh's initial statements to law enforcement officials tossed out:

It's less complicated than the Bit Torrent and cell phone motions, and less grandly historical than the HSA motion, but it sounds like this one may take up the bulk of the hearing tomorrow, since this is the one motion where the defense specifically states they have more to add in oral arguments.

And if they can get these statements tossed out - though I'm not convinced they can - Josh may have a chance in court. 

2. The hands and feet motion:

If I'm the judge on this case, I am going to want to ask some hard questions to both sides about what exactly is going on here. 

3. The HSA motion:

Still doesn't impress me.  

We'll see if it impresses the judge.

4. The cell phone motion:

I earlier said that this motion would be tossed out, because it turns out that the three cell phones in question apparently weren't on the premises at the time of the alleged crime. I still think it's going to get tossed out, because, hey, the cell phones in question apparently weren't on the premises at the time of the alleged crime, but the defense made a few new points that I assume they will later bring up in trial:

a. At one point in the government's response, the government said they did not conduct a forensic review of Witness 2's cell phone, and then later said they did conduct that review but didn't keep a record. The defense is all, wait, what? How could you conduct a review and not keep a record? 

b. Witness 3 apparently lied to law enforcement about exactly when he started to work at the car lot. (The dates he gave to law enforcement don't match the company records.) I'm not sure if this was an actual lie, faulty memory, Josh keeping terrible records, fraud, or all of the above, but the defense thinks that it's a justification for taking a much closer look at Witness 3. Presumably because Witness 1 didn't work at the car lot and did not have access to the computer/Wifi passwords, and Witness 2 was in jail during the time of the alleged crime, leaving Witness 3.

c. I continue to believe that this ongoing attempt to cast blame on someone else for this crime would go much better if the defense could find someone to convincingly cast blame on.

But my skepticism aside, I'm going to guess that the judge won't rule on most, if any, of these motions tomorrow, and may request additional hearings on one or two of them.

[Quilt Fairy]

In the unlikely event that Josh gets off, he's still going to be on LE's radar, right?  It wouldn't be unconstitutional or something, would it?  Because they know these kind of people just can't stop.  So hopefully he can't go back to browsing the dark web without knowing that someone is checking up on what he's doing - and I don't mean Anna's Covenant Eyes stuff. 

[mynextmistake]

9 hours ago, ozziemom said:

My take is that Josh is both stupid and smug. Nothing too bad has happened to him before, so he doesn’t have the mental capacity to imagine what might happen to him now. Living apart from his family now is no different than when he was in Jesus rehab, so I doubt the reality of his situation has sunk in.

Hell, he probably likes it. 

I don’t think marriage to Anna followed by a zillion blessings was ever what Josh wanted. I think if he’d had his druthers, Josh would gotten a job in conservative politics, dated around a bit, and eventually married some kind of lower-rent Kayleigh McEnany type who would have been happy with a couple of kids, max. But Josh needed JB and Michelle’s $$$ and fame to get anywhere close to the kind of life he wanted, and they told him that his end of the bargain was getting married to a nice Gothard-approved girl so he would have an outlet for his “urges” and would stop embarrassing the family. So he married mousy bumpkin Anna and became the reluctant father of a new kid every couple of years.

For a few years he probably felt like even despite that he could still have some semblance of the life he wanted, but then he messed up the FRC job and had to come home with his tail between his legs. Being trapped back in Bumfuck, Arkansas, working on a used car lot and coming home to an exhausted wife, a passel of screaming toddlers and a house that smells like baby shit 24/7 was probably his worst nightmare. The Reber’s place is probably like paradise in comparison  — no kids, no chores, Anna coming over every day to cook his meals and be joyfully available. The idea of going to jail is probably still scary, but he probably doesn’t mind his current situation a bit.

[CandyCaneTree]

7 hours ago, Zella said:

Yeah he downloaded a Tor browser for accessing the dark web and then even admitted to law enforcement that Tor might have been used on the computer. He can't seriously claim he didn't know the dark web browser was there. 

And where did he learn about the Tor browser from Jesus Jail.

[linthia]

19 hours ago, satrunrose said:

I don't think TLC would try to stop a tell-all at this point unless it somehow implicated the network or production company. The number of TLC families that have had scandals is a dark joke at this point. Heck, I think scandals and shocking!! revelations are more or less the raison d'être for 90 Fiancée, their big money maker. 

I agree that TLC loves a scandal. But, I am wondering how many of them have actually had a tell-all written by a participant? It is not the kind of book I would look I would buy, so maybe there are loads of them that I have not seen.

[GeeGolly]

Why would TLC care? Anything in a tell-all would have very little to do with them and would be very easy to write without mentioning them at all. And in the case of spilling the tea on Josh, the most egregious scandals were pre and post him being filmed.

There has been a lot of discussion in various threads about NDAs. One that comes up over and over is the Gosselins. Theirs was part of their divorce agreement, not TLC. I doubt there are many insider secrets to filming reality shows and doubt any of those being filmed sign TLC ordered NDAs.

[Churchhoney]

8 hours ago, madpsych78 said:

It sounds like a lot of planning would have had to go into place in order to access the CSAM files. 

I wonder how Josh knew these files existed though... 🤔

Guys usually find out about them from talking to other guys, online or off. I'm sure Josh has always found other guys with vicious interests to talk to.

For example, about the only time we heard of him having a male Gothardy "friend" that I recall is before the news came out about the child rapist who was supposedly courting Jana. I can never remember his name, but at the same time the "court Jana" rumor was scotched his presence at a restaurant dinner with the Duggars was explained by his being a "friend of Josh's."

When you see how many guys in northwest Arkansas have been convicted of or pled guilty to the exact same crimes Josh is charged with just in the past few years, you realize that a lot of men are looking for the same stuff. 

Edited September 27, 2021 by Churchhoney

[HighHopes]

6 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Guys usually find out about them from talking to other guys, online or off. I'm sure Josh has always found other guys with vicious interests to talk to.

For example, about the only time we heard of him having a male Gothardy "friend" that I recall is before the news came out about the child rapist who was supposedly courting Jana. I can never remember his name, but at the same time the "court Jana" rumor was scotched his presence at a restaurant dinner with the Duggars was explained by his being a "friend of Josh's."

When you see how many guys in northwest Arkansas have been convicted of or pled guilty to the exact same crimes Josh is charged with just in the past few years, you realize that a lot of men are looking for the same stuff. 

Wasn't the man they sent him to for "rehabilitation" after the truth came out about how he abused his sisters also found guilty of CSAM or something similar?? 

[Zella]

20 minutes ago, HighHopes said:

Wasn't the man they sent him to for "rehabilitation" after the truth came out about how he abused his sisters also found guilty of CSAM or something similar?? 

I don't know about where he was sent off to, but I believe the state trooper who gave him a talking to definitely was. 

[Rootbeer]

1 hour ago, Zella said:

I don't know about where he was sent off to, but I believe the state trooper who gave him a talking to definitely was. 

Yeah, the 'family friend' who was also a member of their church and a law enforcement officer gave Josh a lecture that undoubtedly scared him straight.  The officer is still doing time as he was released once and then re-offended.  His current sentence is 50+ years, so he won't be able to give Josh anymore advice.  His first conviction came just 3 years after the Duggars had him speak to Josh, so he was presumably already participating in exactly the sort of behavior he was supposed to be discouraging in Josh.

He was arrested and convicted of possessing images of child sexual abuse including some photographs of a member of his own family.  So, I suppose Josh knew who to ask when he was looking for CSA material.

The Daily Fail is not the best news source, but they appear to have used a lot of court documents in the story.  Beware, the details are very ugly.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3102655/The-sickening-pedophile-crimes-Duggars-state-trooper-friend-failed-properly-investigate-eldest-son-Josh-molestation-young-girls.html

[Ohiopirate02]

21 hours ago, MargeGunderson said:

For the lawyers and lawyer-adjacent here, a question. If Josh (and JB) tell the lawyers to pursue some argument and the lawyers don’t, could Josh, if convicted, claim that he didn’t have adequate counsel as a way to appeal the ruling? Maybe that plays a part in the willingness of the lawyers to throw a Hail Mary.

Prisons are filled with inmates who all claim they did not have adequate counsel after a guilty verdict.  Josh could try this tactic if he is found guilty, but the odds are low that he will succeed.  The appellate courts are too busy dealing with cases that were truly miscarriages of justice to bother with Josh.  Also, appeals cost.  At some point, JB will have to cut his losses.

[hathorlive]

19 hours ago, Insert Username said:

You can’t just browse the dark web. There is no google equivalent where you can do searches. You have to know exactly where you are going. There is no “accidentally” stumbling across anything there.

Actually, there are ways to find pointers to dark web addresses.  That's why you use google.  And that's why you can bet Josh used Google to find sites that referenced what he wants, because otherwise, he'd have to be freaking omniscient to know where to go.  However, my reading of the information indicates that some of the CP was downloaded via bit torrent, which is not a dark web app.  So he probably got the series names from somewhere and that somewhere was probably Google. 

Edited September 27, 2021 by hathorlive

[quarks]

3 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Prisons are filled with inmates who all claim they did not have adequate counsel after a guilty verdict.  Josh could try this tactic if he is found guilty, but the odds are low that he will succeed.  The appellate courts are too busy dealing with cases that were truly miscarriages of justice to bother with Josh.  Also, appeals cost.  At some point, JB will have to cut his losses.

And if he does head to an appeals court, he has other grounds for appeal - all listed in the motions already made by the defense.

And speaking of those motions, as per people on Reddit who are reading the minute entry for the hearing, all of the motions except for the Bit Torrent motion have been denied. It sounds like the judge has granted an additional hearing on that motion?

[sue450]

On 9/25/2021 at 7:17 AM, Fallacy said:

I’m not sure it’s possible to “accidentally” download CSA as the average computer user. I think folks like Josh have to first do some research into where and how to get it. It’s not something the average person knows how to access. 

and anna had some program on joshs computers to keep him from getting to porn so he had to work around that to get to the porn  so don't see how that could be accisental

 

[Fallacy]

Here’s the link if anyone wants to read the basic outline of today’s court hearing: https://www.dropbox.com/s/htqphkzyneb8uco/Minute Order for Hearing 9-27-21.pdf?dl=0

ETA: Here’s how a lawyer on Reddit described the outcome:

The motions to dismiss and/or suppress evidence were DENIED meaning the Defense was unsuccessful. The case will proceed as normal, likely with more plea deals being offered, more discovery(fact investigation), and drafting of appeals (for the Defense).

Not sure about what's going on with the Franks hearing motion. Even if the Court grants it all that happens is an evidentiary hearing to determining the validity of the granting and execution of the warrant, so it's not a game-changer either way, for now, even if it gets granted.

The exhibits of the cheques were likely used to show when the employees/witnesses started working at the car lot, so law enforcement could explain why a thorough investigation of those witnesses was not necessary, nor was making a forensic imaging of their phones. The witnesses we now know by name are Witness 1 and Witness 3 with the names Matthew Waller (Anna's brother) and Randall Steve Barry (I don't recognize the name from the DCU - Duggar Cinematic Universe). We don't know which is which.
 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by Fallacy
Add more details

[CandyCaneTree]

Do you think that Smuggar realizes that he is in deep shit?

[Westiepeach]

7 minutes ago, CandyCaneTree said:

Do you think that Smuggar realizes that he is in deep shit?

I really don’t think so. 

[emmawoodhouse]

Anna doesn't have a brother named Matthew, and Waller is Prissy's married name. No clue who this guy is.

[crazy8s]

I believe he is david waller's youngest sibling and is 23yrs old.

A matthew Waller was/is registered to vote at an address right in front of the TTH. Voter records show he registered with that address in April 2019.  I think it is the little building up near the road, next to the warehouse. The one that now seems to be the Duggar Good Neighbor Realty office.

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by crazy8s

[Gigi43]

48 minutes ago, CandyCaneTree said:

Do you think that Smuggar realizes that he is in deep shit?

 

He won't realize until the bars slam shut behind him. 

 

And even then, he may convince himself it was all the lawyer's fault and an appeal will get him out. 

[quarks]

33 minutes ago, Fallacy said:

The exhibits of the cheques were likely used to show when the employees/witnesses started working at the car lot, so law enforcement could explain why a thorough investigation of those witnesses was not necessary, nor was making a forensic imaging of their phones. 

The defense was also using the checks to claim that Witness 3 lied to law enforcement about his employment start date, which was why - in their opinion - a thorough investigation of Witness 3's cell phone was necessary.

I suspect the defense will be having a very serious talk with Josh tonight or tomorrow.

[BigBingerBro]

Court denies Josh Duggar’s motions to toss photographs, dismiss child porn case

[Tabbygirl521]

On 9/22/2021 at 9:01 AM, Zella said:

What is it with cheap tabloids and this error? Someone on here found one a few months ago that had Jinger has Zinger Dagger, which made me laugh so hard. Wonder if it's the same site. 

Dolly’s sister, I guess. 

[CandyCaneTree]

I was on Reddit Duggar Snark and there was a photo of Smuggar and Anna leaving the courthouse and Anna looked as smug as he did. 

[emmawoodhouse]

7 minutes ago, CandyCaneTree said:

I was on Reddit Duggar Snark and there was a photo of Smuggar and Anna leaving the courthouse and Anna looked as smug as he did. 

I saw it, too. There's no way she's in the dark now. 

eta She's still pregnant.

Edited September 28, 2021 by emmawoodhouse

[quarks]

9 minutes ago, CandyCaneTree said:

I was on Reddit Duggar Snark and there was a photo of Smuggar and Anna leaving the courthouse and Anna looked as smug as he did. 

See, this is ANOTHER reason why wearing masks would have been a good idea, folks!

[Churchhoney]

2 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Anna doesn't have a brother named Matthew, and Waller is Prissy's married name. No clue who this guy is.

David Waller's Wallers have a Matthew, one of their younger ones. So it could be him....But Matthew Waller isn't exactly an uncommon name, I'd say. So it could be some other guy, too.

Whoever it is, nobody in the government side saw any evidence that he could have done the downloading .... even though Josh would like everybody to think he did. 

Looks like most people are going with "delusional" on the "what is it with Josh, anyway?" question. 

Makes sense. 

[BitterApple]

I just saw the pic on Reddit, and wow. Josh and Anna look pretty damn smug considering his defense is crumbling before his eyes. 

[emmawoodhouse]

It was established above that Matthew is of the David Waller family. 

Edited September 28, 2021 by emmawoodhouse

[GeeGolly]

That Reddit Duggar Snark picture appears to be a shot of live video on someone's TV screen. @Zella, do you know if this getting a lot of local coverage?

Anna is still "big pregnant", if the video was actually of yesterday. I can't imagine either of them of feeling too smug at this point. Oh the lies Anna must be telling herself to stand by Josh at this point.

 

[SMama]

Let’s see how smug they are at Josh’s sentencing. 

[Churchhoney]

3 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

That Reddit Duggar Snark picture appears to be a shot of live video on someone's TV screen. @Zella, do you know if this getting a lot of local coverage?

Anna is still "big pregnant", if the video was actually of yesterday. I can't imagine either of them of feeling too smug at this point. Oh the lies Anna must be telling herself to stand by Josh at this point.

 

It's definitely getting local coverage. Stories about it came up on my youtube page a couple times today. I was busy with other stuff and didn't look at them, but the local news is definitely on the story. You could see in the stills that people were reporting from the courthouse. 

Edited September 28, 2021 by Churchhoney

[Zella]

6 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

That Reddit Duggar Snark picture appears to be a shot of live video on someone's TV screen. @Zella, do you know if this getting a lot of local coverage?

Anna is still "big pregnant", if the video was actually of yesterday. I can't imagine either of them of feeling too smug at this point. Oh the lies Anna must be telling herself to stand by Josh at this point.

 

My phone blew up with notifications from the two local channels I get them from (40/29 and Channel 5) when he was first arrested. I remember making a point of watching the local news then, and it got coverage near the top of the hour.

But I've not received any notifications from local news apps about the case since he was released that I can think of. I just checked, and 40/29 does have a quick article about today's hearing but Channel 5 doesn't that I can see. I didn't watch the news today, so maybe TV gave it more coverage than the apps did. 

My guess would be the local coverage will ramp up if it goes to trial, but as is, the average person in NWA cares way less about Duggar updates than we do. 

Edited September 28, 2021 by Zella

[quarks]

4 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

That Reddit Duggar Snark picture appears to be a shot of live video on someone's TV screen. @Zella, do you know if this getting a lot of local coverage?

Anna is still "big pregnant", if the video was actually of yesterday. I can't imagine either of them of feeling too smug at this point. Oh the lies Anna must be telling herself to stand by Josh at this point.

 

I find his expression a bit difficult to read. Anna, however, definitely looks not just smug, but triumphant, which is an odd reaction under the circumstances. 

My guess is that Anna feels justified - and thus, smug - about the one ruling that was kinda/sorta in Josh's favor - the one on the Franks hearing. That's the one that suggests that this entire investigation was illegal in the first place and law enforcement misled the magistrate who issued the warrant. She may be feeling a bit of "I told you so! See? Even the judge agrees that we have to find out if law enforcement was lying!" And feeling that they have plenty of grounds for a later appeal.

And thus not recognizing that everything else today was decidedly not in Josh's favor, and that appeals are all very well, but you have to sit in jail during the appeals process.

Or she was just following the advice of a PR person/Josh's attorneys and trying to look confident, and succeeding in that far too well. 

 

 

[CandyCaneTree]

Just remember that he is world famous crown prince of Smuggarvile and everybody is out to get him.

[GeeGolly]

Just now, quarks said:

I find his expression a bit difficult to read. Anna, however, definitely looks not just smug, but triumphant, which is an odd reaction under the circumstances. 

My guess is that Anna feels justified - and thus, smug - about the one ruling that was kinda/sorta in Josh's favor - the one on the Franks hearing. That's the one that suggests that this entire investigation was illegal in the first place and law enforcement misled the magistrate who issued the warrant. She may be feeling a bit of "I told you so! See? Even the judge agrees that we have to find out if law enforcement was lying!" And feeling that they have plenty of grounds for a later appeal.

And thus not recognizing that everything else today was decidedly not in Josh's favor, and that appeals are all very well, but you have to sit in jail during the appeals process.

Or she was just following the advice of a PR person/Josh's attorneys and trying to look confident, and succeeding in that far too well. 

 

 

Screen shots of video are often misleading. I'd love to see the actual video to get a better read. But really they're in a no-win situation, because I'm sure they are trying to portray innocence at this point.

They look no where near as smug as Lori Loughlin looked at her first hearing, though.