Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Absolom]

And all the St Louis lawyer's experts, probably an associate or three, a paralegal, and a secretary plus the partridge in the pear tree.  :)  

[emmawoodhouse]

10 minutes ago, LilJen said:

No conjugal visits?

Not in Federal prison. Of course, nothing is stopping him now as he awaits trial (or an 11th hour plea).

[mittsigirl]

2 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

The good news is that Boob has to pay both Travis Story AND the fancy St. Louis lawyer. 😂

Good, because JB is the type of man who is hurt the most if you take away his money!

[mittsigirl]

6 hours ago, hathorlive said:

The joke we had in my lab was we would quit if we ever had to explain epochal time in court.  It's something that they always put on certification tests, but you NEVER see in real life.  And there I was, in front of a giant screen walking the jury through where the value was found and converted and blah blah.  I almost laughed at one point, it was so silly.  Noted you are on my list of future jurors!

I just googled it and tried to understand it as much as I could, sure is different than anything I have ever read about. It sure must be the most precise measure of time for a court case like this one. Gee HATHORLIVE, I knew you were very smart before, but now you are way up there in my mind! Sure appreciate the way you explain things so well, that even a layperson can understand-thank-you:)

[mittsigirl]

5 hours ago, Namaste said:

So, if Josh  is convicted of both charges, what is the minimum sentence he will receive? Thx. 

Nowhere NEAR long enough!

[lulu69]

7 hours ago, Tigregirl said:

Admin - if this is not allowed, please delete.

I saw this post from May 10 on Duggars W/O pity.  Taking it with a grain of salt but things could get even more f’ed up:

“Another Duggar is being investigated by Homeland Security and there is going to be another arrest. Anna is moving off the property into a home some one close to her and Josh owns. There is a huge divide of the Duggar's that still believe Josh was set up. Stay tuned...

Neighbor”

 

Please let it be JB on an obstruction of justice or destruction of evidence charge. 

Pleaseeee (fingers crossed)...

[mittsigirl]

5 hours ago, Hpmec said:

My husband was once in a courtroom as a prospective juror when the judge specifically told members of the jury pool to pay no attention to the fact that the defendant was chained to the table.It was a murder case and the defendant, according to my husband, looked menacing. I don't see how a jury could be expected to be unbiased when it was clear the defendant was a potential danger to them. 

Wow! I am pretty sure that I would have peed my pants if I had to be in a jury with someone so dangerous! In the last 25 years, I have been called for jury duty 6 times, but because I am on a high dose morphine, I was excused each time. I live in a small city so that's why I was called so many times.

[Tabbygirl521]

I’m surprised that, IF Anna has been to visit Josh, we haven’t heard any paparazzi reports. 

[mittsigirl]

4 hours ago, hathorlive said:

That's kind of like robbing a bank and saying you didn't want to steal the money, you just wanted to hold the cash because it was a rush.  He can try to say anything he wants but most juries have no use for anything a suspect says once they hear the facts of the case.  There is no explanation for this.  I had a guy once say he was downloading the images so they could be taken off the net.  Because downloading means they are gone because they are now on your computer.

What an idiot! I bet that you have all kinds of stories you could tell that include dummies like him! You just have to have some that are funny and make you laugh to balance out all of the terrible things that you see:(

[madpsych78]

For some reason, Josiah keeps coming to my mind here. The show did depict him as probably the only sibling who demonstrated any sort of looking-up-to-Josh behavior (especially when he first started courting Marjorie). And, he hasn't been on social media for six months. I really feel like he is such a wild card that it could have nothing to do with Josh, or absolutely everything to do with Josh (re: the supposed rumor about some other Duggars being implicated).

Edited May 12, 2021 by madpsych78

[mittsigirl]

4 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Totally agree. That's why it makes me so angry I could rip somebody's head off. 

Jim Bob and Meeechelle have ruined those kids' lives and they're well on the way to ruining a lot of their "grandbabies'" lives, too. And yet we still hear "Oh, but Jim Bob loves eeez kidddzz!!!" No, he doesn't. He feels some fuzzy feelings in his crotch and belly and maybe a wee bit in his brain when he sees his little loin fruit walking around and producing more little descendants-of-Jim-Bob sperm to bring him glory with Jesus. But he's spent every day of his adult life doing stuff that ruins their lives.  And yet they've been on tv for over a decade, held up as role models, which has not just convinced strangers that they're role models but has convinced their own kids. 

And yet none of his kids are likely to realize this until they're forced to. 

So if this forces them to, it won't be pretty but it's the only thing that's likely to move most of them in the direction of the truth, as far as I can tell.

And that will be sad and difficult. 

BUT -- and this is a big "but" as far as I'm concerned, they will be far from the only people who have had to create their own lives nearly from scratch when they never knew they'd have to and who are often just as ill-prepared as the Duggars through no fault of their own - people grow up in terrible poverty, they grow up and become orphaned at just the wrong moment, they become estranged from their families through no fault of their own, they have parents with undiagnosed mental illness, etc. People get deprived in all kinds of ways and have to make it as adults on their own. And an amazing number ultimately manage to scramble and do it. With no more resources handed to them that the Duggarlings have. 

The Duggarlings won't have been well prepared. But they'll be just as prepared as a lot of other people are.

Up to now, in my opinion, they've been a super-self-satisfied and smug-as-hell bunch, based on their parents' estimation of themselves and the fact that many of the older kids, especially, believe themselves to be important "celebs."

So while I do have a lot of sympathy for them, I also think there's no reason that it won't ultimately improve their lives if they have to get off that high horse and struggle down on the ground the way many many other people have to do. There are a lot of them. They can help each other if they're willing. 

They may now have to go through some stuff that lots and lots of other people also go through. And the fact that they'll be going through it from a lifelong position of imagining that they're above it -- because of what they've heard from Mama and Daddy -- doesn't mean to me that they deserve any special help or consideration we don't give to every other young person who has to struggle without much help to make a life. 

 

AMEN. Very well said CHURCHHONEY!

[cereality]

If there is another charge coming and it’s related to this - and not financial crime - I wonder if we’ll see an obstruction of justice charge against someone who helped Josh maybe destroying evidence after the 2019 raid (or more likely if they got wind of a raid hours before it happens which isn’t unheard of in a small town if you see authorities moving around that you’ve never seen). In that event it’s more likely to be one of the brothers than JB bc how much does JB know about technology? IDK what brothers hang with Josh. The show and social media have painted a picture of Josh being totally removed from the siblings’ lives but reality is we don’t know who hangs out with who. While I think the older brothers (JD, Joe) are thoroughly disgusted with Josh bc they understand what he did to their sisters, the cheating on Anna etc. The middle brothers were toddlers with he did stuff to the sisters and like preteens when he cheated on Anna. While some of them may have vague notions that he’s messed up, you know the sister stuff was never discussed with them when they were old enough to understand (or it was vague platitudes re messing up when he was a young teen and he’s sought the lords forgiveness) and the cheating on Anna - eh the devil led him astray when he left his mommy and daddy for the big city life. I could see one of those brothers helping in some way that’s obstruction.

In any event this isn’t going to trial unless it’s JB&M or Josh overruling the lawyers’ advice. It’s federal court folks, verdicts must be unanimous. A jury with 12 members will necessarily have some women and some moms — I don’t see that demographic being like CP eh but the hash values on the images don’t match so maybe there’s spoliation of evidence blah blah. Some # of jurors vote guilty on CP bc it’s so visceral. All you need is 1 juror voting guilty and there goes Josh’s acquittal - then you’re looking at a mistrial and retrial or a plea deal after day after day of making headlines for the trial (granted the plea deal on the back end may not be bad bc USAO showed they couldn’t get a conviction but given that he’s on supervised release until trial lord knows what new evidence he gives them if he scores a phone/internet in the next 2-3 mos).

 

[cmr2014]

1 hour ago, madpsych78 said:

For some reason, Josiah keeps coming to my mind here. The show did depict him as probably the only sibling who demonstrated any sort of looking-up-to-Josh behavior (especially when he first started courting Marjorie). And, he hasn't been on social media for six months. I really feel like he is such a wild card that it could have nothing to do with Josh, or absolutely everything to do with Josh (re: the supposed rumor about some other Duggars being implicated).

Mine, too.

There were also rumors that Marjorie called off there "courtship" in part because Josiah was pestering her to "sext" with him. Josiah was also the one (I think) who was sent to ALERT over and over again.

I hope it's not him because I sort of liked him back when he seemed to have a little bit of personality. I also think it would be really tough on the siblings. I think they've all disliked Josh for a long time, but I think that many of them like Josiah.

It occurred to me that if Josh is throwing a sibling under the bus, it could be Jed! I think it's possible the JB is grooming him for the role he initially intended for Josh, and I would imagine that Josh would feel tremendous jealousy over that. 

Edited May 12, 2021 by cmr2014

[cereality]

How do we know Josiah looked up to Josh? It’s been so many years since Josh was on the show that I can’t even recall how he and Josiah interacted. Examples?

[hathorlive]

2 hours ago, 3girlsforus said:

As much I would hate having to see the images/videos, I agree that if I was on the jury I would want to see it. Well I wouldn't want to but I think it would be necessary.

It's asking a jury to convict based on someone's description of the video.  I wouldn't feel comfortable doing that if I were a juror.  If we let someone else describe the video, you end up with JB and Michelle dismissing Josh's sexual abuse.  That's a person's account of something they saw.  Versus an actual witness, who gets to make their own decision based on their understanding of the law and what is sexual abuse.   Does that make sense?  If the prosecutor describes the video, it's prejudicial toward the prosecution.  If the defense attorney gets to describe it, it's slanted toward the defense.  You can't convict someone unless you get to judge for yourself.  

Edited May 12, 2021 by hathorlive

[3 is enough]

When Josiah was younger he was a bit like Josh 2.0 in terms of smugness.  But then there was that incident where he was visibly upset when Michelle announced she was pregnant with # 20 and shortly after he began the trips to Alert. 

I always thought he was pushed into the courtship with Marjorie because there were signs he was playing for the other team.  People here continued to speculate about that possibility even after he married Lauren.  Also, the courtship with Marjorie ended shortly after the original Josh scandal broke, and everyone thought that was why she bailed.  This is the first time I ever heard any mention of him pressuring Marjorie to sext.

That said, if he was working with Josh at the car lot I suppose he could be implicated by association.  And I totally can see his POS brother throwing him under the bus. Because if Josh is going down he will not hesitate to take as many family members with him as possible.

Edited May 12, 2021 by 3 is enough

[Nysha]

If Josh breaks his release roles and gets arrested again does the prosecution have to notify his lawyers first or is that Josh's responsibility.

[Zella]

5 minutes ago, Nysha said:

If Josh breaks his release roles and gets arrested again does the prosecution have to notify his lawyers first or is that Josh's responsibility.

I assume he'd call them with his one phone call. Or he'd call Big Daddy Jim Bob with his one phone call and then Jim Bob would call the attorneys.*

*Disclaimer: I am totally talking out of my ass and have no idea and would be interested in what our lawyers have to say.  

Edited May 12, 2021 by Zella

[Quilt Fairy]

11 hours ago, hathorlive said:

It will be interesting if they challenge geolocation in court.  I mean, if it's good enough for NASA, it's probably good enough for court.  I've never heard anyone challenge this before.

Well, you know, if it's not mentioned in the 1611 KJV it's probably suspect.

[Zella]

I'm not convinced any of the rumors--that another sibling is implicated in the Homeland Security investigations (beyond potentially being a witness) or that Josiah was trying to get Marjorie to sext with him--are true, but I also can't help but wonder if what these people (besides Josh the Creep) think of as sexting is what anyone else would think of as sexting. I mean, hell, would sending someone a picture of a full-frontal hug scandalize them? 

Edited May 12, 2021 by Zella

[Snow Fairy]

Maybe they think sending a kiss or kissing emoji is sexting?

[Kellyee]

Quote

I'm not convinced any of the rumors--that another sibling is implicated in the Homeland Security investigations (beyond potentially being a witness) or that Josiah was trying to get Marjorie to sext with him--are true, but I also can't help but wonder if what these people (besides Josh the Creep) think of as sexting is what anyone else would think of as sexting. I mean, hell, would sending someone a picture of a full-frontal hug scandalize them? 

Considering that Jim Bob thinks Michelle had "baggage" before they met at 17, God only know what these people consider a scandal.

I remember Josiah being very smug when he was still a little kid. Lauren has always seemed more mainstream somehow and less smug.

 

 

 

 

 

[Gigi43]

There's a huge difference between wanting to sext with someone you're courting and downloading CP, to associate sexting with being a sign of the other is wildly unfair. Josiah's name comes up a lot in this because he worked in the car lot. If Josiah knew what Josh was up to that could be a reason to be investigated, and Josh would probably love to take the heat off himself and blame someone else but I think Josiah would have been arrested along with Josh or Josh wouldn't have been arrested now if the case was easily open to Josh pinning it on him. For all we know Josiah could have helped the Feds make the case, which would give Josh extra reason to turn around and say it was him. 

 

Josiah is like 10yrs younger than Josh, growing up he may not have realized how big of a deal what Josh did was, where as JD, for example, was older and probably well aware of why there were locks on Josh's door and why he was sent away for three months, and so on. JB continued to push Josh as a role model to the younger ones.

 

Also, I think a lot of these rumors are people who don't want to wait for real information or the trial in July and want to keep discussion going whether its true or not. 

Edited May 12, 2021 by Gigi43

[MsJamieDornan]

7 minutes ago, Gigi43 said:

Also, I think a lot of these rumors are people who don't want to wait for real information or the trial in July and want to keep discussion going whether its true or not. 

You're absolutely right.

[lascuba]

I would be surprised if any of the Duggars are confiding in anyone at this point, so any rumors about what's been happening since the arrest--or even since the initial raid--are likely made up out of thin air.

[JoanArc]

1 hour ago, Kellyee said:

Considering that Jim Bob thinks Michelle had "baggage" before they met at 17, God only know what these people consider a scandal.

She was 15.  Imagine all that baggage! 

 I will also point out Sexting is not illegal, and that was a lame rumor to begin with.

[3girlsforus]

If the rumor that Josh is trying to make a deal by throwing someone else in the family under the bus has any truth I imagine it goes something like this. 

The person is Josiah because he worked at the car lot. Josh realizes that Josiah worked at the car lot so he tells his lawyer it could have been Josiah who downloaded the stuff. Josh's lawyers know this is crap but see if the Feds take the bait. The Feds laugh their asses off. 

[BigBingerBro]

Is John David still a constable?  I wonder if this scandal will have any effect on his being re-elected?

[NotthebadVictoria]

2 hours ago, MsJamieDornan said:

You're absolutely right.

What makes this hard, is that this family is so fucked up most of the rumors are plausible! 

[Ohiopirate02]

27 minutes ago, BigBingerBro said:

Is John David still a constable?  I wonder if this scandal will have any effect on his being re-elected?

Why would JD have to resign?  He is an adult, married and living under a different roof than Josh.  Josh is also an adult who committed crimes.  Unless JD is also indicted, he would be in the clear.  As to him being re-elected, it all depends on if someone else runs against him.  The position has no teeth and seems largely ceremonial, so not that many people even care about running.  If he has zero opposition, then he might win the election based upon voter apathy.

[Zella]

4 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

The position has no teeth

An Arkansas constable actually has the power to arrest a county sheriff. I doubt JD actually does anything since he is so close to a city that law enforcement response time is unlikely an issue there, but constables in the state are not powerless. In fact, a lot of people would argue just the opposite--they have too much power. 

That being said, I also doubt JD the constable would be able to provide much help to Josh right now, even if he was inclined to do so.

[BigBingerBro]

5 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Why would JD have to resign?  He is an adult, married and living under a different roof than Josh.  Josh is also an adult who committed crimes.  Unless JD is also indicted, he would be in the clear.  As to him being re-elected, it all depends on if someone else runs against him.  The position has no teeth and seems largely ceremonial, so not that many people even care about running.  If he has zero opposition, then he might win the election based upon voter apathy.

I didn't say anything about him resigning.  I was asking if he is still holding that position.  I feel bad for him as this latest scandal may make things hard for him.

[Jeanne222]

10 hours ago, Zella said:

I'm not convinced any of the rumors--that another sibling is implicated in the Homeland Security investigations (beyond potentially being a witness) or that Josiah was trying to get Marjorie to sext with him--are true, but I also can't help but wonder if what these people (besides Josh the Creep) think of as sexting is what anyone else would think of as sexting. I mean, hell, would sending someone a picture of a full-frontal hug scandalize them? 

Was Josiah heavy with Josh when he was courting Marjorie?

Sounds like something Josh would put a brother up to!

[3 is enough]

I can see it now:  "Hey Marjorie, can you send me a picture of your collarbones? " 

[iwantcookies]

12 minutes ago, 3 is enough said:

I can see it now:  "Hey Marjorie, can you send me a picture of your collarbones? " 

Or your knees???

Hahaha

[JoanArc]

35 minutes ago, 3 is enough said:

I can see it now:  "Hey Marjorie, can you send me a picture of your collarbones? " 

“ show me you’re a bad girl.....let’s use a condom”

[lulu69]

7 hours ago, Kellyee said:

Considering that Jim Bob thinks Michelle had "baggage" before they met at 17, God only know what these people consider a scandal.

And yet they didnt consider their own son molesting his sisters, repeatedly, a scandal at all. To quote JB & Mechelle, "It was no big deal".

Go figure.

[Nysha]

48 minutes ago, lulu69 said:

And yet they didnt consider their own son molesting his sisters, repeatedly, a scandal at all. To quote JB & Mechelle, "It was no big deal".

In Michelle's defense, it was no big deal for Josh. The sexually abused sisters clearly had baggage they needed to repent for.

[Crochetlady]

3 hours ago, lulu69 said:

And yet they didnt consider their own son molesting his sisters, repeatedly, a scandal at all. To quote JB & Mechelle, "It was no big deal".

Go figure.

Well they think it happens in all families, or most families, so that could be part of it. Bunch of sick people. 

[emmawoodhouse]

1 hour ago, Crochetlady said:

Well they think it happens in all families, or most families, so that could be part of it. Bunch of sick people. 

Jill's statistic was 2/3 of families. Straight outta Gothard.

[JoanArc]

18 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Jill's statistic was 2/3 of families. Straight outta Gothard.

Look at the 1:40 mark  just in case anyone wants to hear Jill explain how 2/3 of families deal with having siblings molest other siblings. Really sick. She actually implies that it’s even occurring in more than 2/3 of families.  She was so brainwashed.  I forgot how childlike she sounded during that interview too.  Jessa did a valiant job of sticking to her talking points and getting every pre-written talking point out there. 

Jessa also made sure to point out that she did not consider Josh a pedophile. So there’s that too. 

 In that clip they also nervously giggle that no other Duggar family secret is going to come out. 

Edited May 13, 2021 by JoanArc

[SMama]

27 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

 In that clip they also nervously giggle that no other Duggar family secret is going to come out. 

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😝

[JoanArc]

10 minutes ago, SMama said:

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😝

 Keep in mind, this was pre-Ashley Madison, too!  😅

[SMama]

The victims really memorized those talking points, but IIRC Mullet and Jill had a cheat sheet on their laps. Jill referred to professional counseling, and Jessa said licensed counseling. 🙄 One of them said Volderjosh received counseling and he had to pay for it himself. What a crock of excrement. If it’s true Jill didn’t want to do the interview and was pressured, Boob and Mullet are not just bad parents. They are fucking vile, evil, devoid of any redeeming qualities. I hope Grandpa Duggar meets them at the pearly gates and throws their asses down into hell, where they belong. 

[Gweilo]

On 5/11/2021 at 3:38 AM, MargeGunderson said:

God multitasks like a boss.

That's how we know she's a woman.

[Future Cat Lady]

1 hour ago, SMama said:

The victims really memorized those talking points, but IIRC Mullet and Jill had a cheat sheet on their laps. Jill referred to professional counseling, and Jessa said licensed counseling. 🙄 One of them said Volderjosh received counseling and he had to pay for it himself. What a crock of excrement. If it’s true Jill didn’t want to do the interview and was pressured, Boob and Mullet are not just bad parents. They are fucking vile, evil, devoid of any redeeming qualities. I hope Grandpa Duggar meets them at the pearly gates and throws their asses down into hell, where they belong. 

They had Jill and Jessa out themselves as victims so they could go on TV defending their abuser. Meanwhile, Josh was hidden away for protection. He never had to explain himself.

[lilwhitelion]

I just finished watching God is Grey's latest YT video, with Jen from Fundie Fridays as her guest.  I was surprised that Brenda (God is Grey) didn't know very much about the Duggars.  Jen had to bring her up to speed on the past abuses by Josh, etc.  It's well worth a watch.  Much of what they cover has been discussed on here.  One thing Jen pointed out was that Josh's iPhone had to be seized and they would not let Josh use it (to call his attorney) as perps have 'kill switches' on phones that will erase material they want hidden.

[SMama]

4 hours ago, Future Cat Lady said:

They had Jill and Jessa out themselves as victims so they could go on TV defending their abuser. Meanwhile, Josh was hidden away for protection. He never had to explain himself.

Jill and Jessa were upset about being re victimized by the disclosure of their molestation by the media. Yet not a word about their godly (🤮) parents dragging them to do an interview to absolve their abuser of any responsibility. Meanwhile their abuser was shielded from public accountability while he was screwing around on Ashley Madison. 

[hathorlive]

13 hours ago, JoanArc said:

Look at the 1:40 mark  just in case anyone wants to hear Jill explain how 2/3 of families deal with having siblings molest other siblings. Really sick. She actually implies that it’s even occurring in more than 2/3 of families.  She was so brainwashed.  I forgot how childlike she sounded during that interview too.  Jessa did a valiant job of sticking to her talking points and getting every pre-written talking point out there. 

 

This.  Every time I see this interview, it's like watching Stockholm Syndrome in action.  She looks like she's reading a hostage note.  I could dislike JB and Mechelle for so many reasons, but this is the single event that made me despise them.  You forced your daughter to traumatize herself in order to save your TV show.  It's all about money for them.  I hope God strikes them down.

[Natalie68]

13 hours ago, Gweilo said:

That's how we know she's a woman.

Exactly!