Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[galaxygirl76]

3 hours ago, Tuxcat said:

Okay I am starting to buy the theory that JB and Josh knew. The fancy lawyer indicates that they at least knew to be prepared. 

But I don't know why they would have encouraged Jed to run for office or Jeremy and Jinger to write a wholesome book.  So I still think the rest of the family were really in the dark about what could happen.

And The Vuolos did stop posting daughter pictures from social media but left ALL THE old PHOTOS of Felicity up. If they were concerned about Josh and those implication - they would have pulled all those photos. I think Jinger was just tired of constant criticisms TBH.

 

The Vuolos apparently had no problems calling the paps to take pictures of them out and about with the baby, they just got released by the Daily Mail(I think) so I imagine those were supposed to be promo work for that book of theirs. 

[Oldernowiser]

27 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

So could Josh argue in court, that since he was not properly diagnosed as a teen (and again as an adult) that fault lies with the family/providers ? Could he argue that he is blameless given his condition and inadequate preventative treatment?

He’s 33 years old and the father of 6-ish. He’s going to have tough sledding to claim his parents are somehow responsible for his actions, especially as JB is going to be footing the attorneys’ fees. I suspect they’ll go with, “it’s all a political setup to persecute a good Christian family.”

Of course, anyone can argue anything. I was on jury duty once for a DUI case and the expert witness argued that yes, the defendant had consumed 8 shots of vodka and then had driven away from the bar, but he had drunk them so quickly, you see, that he couldn’t have metabolized them fast enough to be legally impaired when he was pulled over. The guy had refused a breathalyzer. I rolled my eyes so hard my face hurt for days.

Edited May 2, 2021 by Oldernowiser

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Tuxcat said:

Okay I am starting to buy the theory that JB and Josh knew.

They've known what was coming for nearly a year and a half -- since the day the feds came a-knocking. 

[mittsigirl]

25 minutes ago, farmgal4 said:

ONE expert witness in the Derek Chauvin trial costs $21,000.  I’m wondering just how much money Jim Boob is willing to shell out in order to keep Smuggar out of prison?

Can you remember if this expensive expert witness was for the defense or prosecution? I had no idea they paid them that much!

[emmawoodhouse]

3 minutes ago, Giant Misfit said:

They've known what was coming for nearly a year and a half -- since the day the feds came a-knocking. 

Is it possible that they were lulled into a sense of complacency when nothing seemed to happen for those 18 months? I imagine Boob put the St. Louis lawyer on retainer (via Story's recommendation) way back when and promptly forgot about him until Thursday.

[Cinnabon]

1 hour ago, mittsigirl said:

I know I shouldn't laugh at something so serious, but gee, I really needed this! 

Not so #littleduggars . 🤣

[Churchhoney]

24 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

It's ironic that Smuggar is probably the only one of the 19 kids that JB and M had anything resembling normal parental affection for, and he's the bad seed of the family.

They really really like Bill Gothard, too. And they're extremely fond of themselves. There may be a pattern there. 😁

I'm pretty sure a big part of their fondness for Josh is the Gothard and patriarchal mythology about the firstborn son being the leader of the family. Somebody special to God. And that you're so lucky to have a firstborn son so you have your natural leader because it's just not the same if there's a firstborn daughter. She can't lead the family as a firstborn boy can do. Blah blah. 

 Once they'd thrown in their lot with Josh being that special person -- and treated him that way for years and years, maybe they were just too committed to him being special to see anything clearly. 

I don't think there's a whole lot of evidence that JB and M have particularly good judgment in any case, though. They have a lot of low cunning. But judgment not so much, seems to me. 

[farmgal4]

Just now, mittsigirl said:

Can you remember if this expensive expert witness was for the defense or prosecution? I had no idea they paid them that much!

Prosecution.  The defense also had the same type of expert witness, but that witness only charged $14,000 and was made to looks like an idiot by the prosecution.

[doodlebug]

6 minutes ago, mittsigirl said:

Can you remember if this expensive expert witness was for the defense or prosecution? I had no idea they paid them that much!

I know that many physicians who provide expert testimony for malpractice cases charge 10 grand a day, not to mention expenses which include first class air travel, meals and the nicest hotel in town.  I could see someone with very specific knowledge important to one side or the other charging $21 grand.

[SMama]

5 hours ago, Zella said:

An anonymous source has claimed to the media that Jim Bob called the family on Thursday morning to alert them Josh was being arrested on "serious charges" later that day. 

 

I thought he was arrested Wednesday.

[Oldernowiser]

20 minutes ago, Giant Misfit said:

They've known what was coming for nearly a year and a half -- since the day the feds came a-knocking. 

Is it possible, though, that JB didn’t know why they came a-knocking? Given the financial shenanigans I have zero doubt JB has been up to, maybe they’re actually relieved that this is what the result is? 

It’s not like Josh being a twisted sexpest is exactly new. 

[Churchhoney]

2 hours ago, Zella said:

When he was running for office back in the early 2000s, he said that both rape and incest should be punished with the death penalty. 

I'd just like to point out this coincided with the same period in which Josh was molesting his sisters and Jim Bob's response was to lock the girls' room. :( 

Yep.

And also, after saying in the most public and official kind of way that incestuous acts should get the death penalty, several years later JB convinced his daughters to say on national tv that incestuous acts are going on in every family in their circle. 

That called for a headline saying  "Jim Bob Duggar Demands Death Penalty For Members of All Fundamentalist Families."

[all fall down]

6 minutes ago, SMama said:

I thought he was arrested Wednesday.

He was arrested Thursday. I remember because I was fortunate to have the day off work so I could follow along all day without feeling guilty about not paying attention to work!

https://www.so.washington.ar.us/res/Detainee.aspx?bn=4235381

[mittsigirl]

22 minutes ago, farmgal4 said:

Prosecution.  The defense also had the same type of expert witness, but that witness only charged $14,000 and was made to looks like an idiot by the prosecution.

Thanks for that information FarmGal4. Didn't the defense look like idiots most of that trial?!

[Lady Whistleup]

I have the sick feeling there's going to be gofundme's for Josh soon. 

[mittsigirl]

9 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Yep.

And also, after saying in the most public and official kind of way that incestuous acts should get the death penalty, several years later JB convinced his daughters to say on national tv that incestuous acts are going on in every family in their circle. 

That called for a headline saying  "Jim Bob Duggar Demands Death Penalty For Members of All Fundamentalist Families."

Well I am the oldest of 6, and there were no sick perversions that went in in my family, and we are all in our 50's and 60's now. Nor in my Dad's family, and there were 13 of them. I know that, sadly, it does happen, but I just don't agree when the Duggar's say that it's a common things that goes on. Is it??

[quarks]

Speaking of Casey Anthony, she's essentially had to go into hiding for the past decade or so.

I suspect the same will be true for Josh Duggar, even if - perhaps especially if - he's found innocent at trial. 

[JoanArc]

2 minutes ago, quarks said:

Speaking of Casey Anthony, she's essentially had to go into hiding for the past decade or so.

I suspect the same will be true for Josh Duggar, even if - perhaps especially if - he's found innocent at trial. 

 FYI she has turned back up in public, working for someone on her legal team. 

 If Josh pulls that theres no hope for the world.

[Churchhoney]

16 minutes ago, mittsigirl said:

Well I am the oldest of 6, and there were no sick perversions that went in in my family, and we are all in our 50's and 60's now. Nor in my Dad's family, and there were 13 of them. I know that, sadly, it does happen, but I just don't agree when the Duggar's say that it's a common things that goes on. Is it??

I think JB was pretty much saying anything he could think of that made himself and Josh look better, and wasn't at all concerned about basing his accusations against other people on facts. 😉

[zoomama]

my roommate saw the statement from TLC cancelling counting on. i dont have a link. can anyone find it and post t?

[doodlebug]

1 minute ago, Churchhoney said:

I think JB was pretty much saying anything he could think of that made himself and Josh look better, and wasn't at all concerned about basing his accusations against other people on facts. 😉

He was also very quick to assert that Josh couldn't possibly be a pedophile because he was something like 15 years and 4 months when he molested the 5 year old and, legally, one has to be 16 to be declared a pedophile.  No shame in his game.

[ozziemom]

2 hours ago, Oldernowiser said:

 

I can see them all fantasizing about a Murder on the Orient Express scenario and honestly, I wouldn’t blame them.

I’d watch that show! 

[doodlebug]

5 minutes ago, zoomama said:

my roommate saw the statement from TLC cancelling counting on. i dont have a link. can anyone find it and post t?

TLC's website still lists Counting On as one of its shows and has links to watch episodes.

TLC issued a statement that they are 'saddened' by Josh' arrest, that's all I've seen.

Derick has called for the show to be cancelled, but he's been riding that bus for years.

[Future Cat Lady]

1 hour ago, Tuxcat said:

So could Josh argue in court, that since he was not properly diagnosed as a teen (and again as an adult) that fault lies with the family/providers ? Could he argue that he is blameless given his condition and inadequate preventative treatment?

 

Since Daddy is paying for the lawyer, I doubt they'll pursue this? However, I think Josh would have no problem throwing his parents under the bus.

[JoanArc]

2 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

TLC's website still lists Counting On as one of its shows and has links to watch episodes.

TLC issued a statement that they are 'saddened' by Josh' arrest, that's all I've seen.

Derick has called for the show to be cancelled, but he's been riding that bus for years.

So did one of the Roloff kids. 

[crazy8s]

the only thing I see is Hulu is dropping Counting On and other TLC shows in May. but I think they were going to do that anyway. Not related to Josh.

[quarks]

2 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

 FYI she has turned back up in public, working for someone on her legal team. 

 If Josh pulls that theres no hope for the world.

No, not really, unless you call filing business paperwork "turning back up in public."

Since her trial, she's made basically one public appearance - at a political event at a rather well known Palm Beach location. She was spotted almost immediately, and went back into hiding. 

Back in December, she filed to start up a private investigating company, using the same street address used by the private investigator her defense team hired - the house she's been living in for the last several years. News outlets noted that she had filed to start up a new business and went with that - but she didn't issue any press releases and more critically, didn't leave the house that she's staying in. She almost never does, even to go grocery shopping. 

Back to Josh, I don't think Josh will have a problem throwing anyone under the bus - his parents, his siblings, Anna. Another reason why it's in the Duggar family's best interests to avoid a trial. I doubt very much, however, that Josh is thinking about the best interests of anyone not named Josh Duggar. 

[cmr2014]

1 hour ago, farmgal4 said:

Casey Anthony and her attorney threw her father completely under the bus (they claimed that her father had been sexually abusing her for years) during that trial.  I can see Josh doing the same thing to Jim Boob and MEchelle.  He’s just that narcissistic IMO.

I think he'd lay the blame at someone who is dead -- one of his grandfathers perhaps?

[BigBingerBro]

I just read about a wild rumor on reddit that Grandma Mary was killed because she "knew too much" about something.....

[ozziemom]

Is the big shot lawyer from St. Louis able to defend Josh in Arkansas cos it’s federal court? Or is he licensed in Arkansas?

[JoanArc]

4 minutes ago, BigBingerBro said:

I just read about a wild rumor on reddit that Grandma Mary was killed because she "knew too much" about something.....

 

[tabloidlover]

Anyone else wondering how JoshUa is faring in jail?

[zoomama]

6 minutes ago, tabloidlover said:

Anyone else wondering how JoshUa is faring in jail?

nope. not so much.

[Zella]

2 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

I thought I read he's represented by three attorneys...will have to look that up.

Found it.  On Friday, Duggar's attorneys – Justin Gelfand, Travis Story and Greg Payne – said in a joint statement that their client has pled not guilty to both charges and plans to "fight back in the courtroom."   https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/celebrities/2021/04/29/josh-duggar-arrested-feds-days-after-wife-pregnancy-announcement/7403586002/

I hope JB has really deep pockets because this one is gonna cost him!

Payne is part of Story's law firm and has represented Josh with Story before (in his real estate case and in suing Springdale). 

[galaxygirl76]

1 hour ago, christine falls said:

He was arrested Thursday. I remember because I was fortunate to have the day off work so I could follow along all day without feeling guilty about not paying attention to work!

https://www.so.washington.ar.us/res/Detainee.aspx?bn=4235381

I was off too and like an idiot I was catching up on my tv shows and didn't find out until my husband told me about it. My husband btw doesn't usually care about this stuff and rarely gets any kind of gossip before I do, I felt like a slacker 🤣

Edited May 2, 2021 by galaxygirl76

[tabloidlover]

22 minutes ago, zoomama said:

nope. not so much.

I was thinking along the lines of how uncomfortable and miserable he might be.  Cuz that would be something to enjoy.

[Lukeysboat]

55 minutes ago, zoomama said:

 

my roommate saw the statement from TLC cancelling counting on. i dont have a link. can anyone find it and post t?

 

This is all I’ve seen, from People. "TLC is saddened to learn about the continued troubles involving Josh Duggar," the network said in a statement to PEOPLE on Friday. "19 Kids and Counting has not aired since 2015. TLC cancelled the show on the heels of prior allegations against Josh Duggar and he has not appeared on-air since then."

https://people.com/tv/tlc-statement-josh-duggar-arrest-on-child-pornography-charges/

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Oldernowiser said:

Is it possible, though, that JB didn’t know why they came a-knocking?

Possible? Sure. But probable? No way. JB has known -- and covered up -- Josh's predatoriness since he was 15. And there's no way that Josh was running that car dealership (except straight into the ground) so JB had to know there was no financial shenanigans going on since HE was the one likely overseeing that part of the enterprise.  JB likes to play the bumfuck fundie dad but he's a sly operator. There's no way he didn't immediately retain council for Josh after the raid and 100% knew what the crimes they uncovered were. 

[Zella]

I don't think TLC has any plans of canceling the Duggars any time soon. The statement they released seemed like their argument is Josh is not on the show, so not relevant to the show. At the same time, I can also see them not being terribly motivated to promote it or release new material right now. They might be playing wait and see regarding the case to see if further developments require additional damage control from them. 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Zella

[carrps]

1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

I know that many physicians who provide expert testimony for malpractice cases charge 10 grand a day, not to mention expenses which include first class air travel, meals and the nicest hotel in town.  I could see someone with very specific knowledge important to one side or the other charging $21 grand.

If it was that Tobin guy, he was WEP. At least one juror has said that he convinced her, and she intimated that others were, too.

[lascuba]

13 minutes ago, Zella said:

I don't think TLC has any plans of canceling the Duggars any time soon. The statement they released seemed like their argument is Josh is not on the show, so not relevant to the show. At the same time, I can also see them not being terribly motivated to promote it or release new material right now. They might be playing wait and see regarding the case to see if further developments require additional damage control from them. 

TLC is something else. "Oh, we cancelled 19KaC years ago! We have nothing to do with Josh Duggar!" Bitch, please.

They're really attached to keeping the Duggars on the air. How long did they air CO without a single advertiser (other than TLC's other shows)? I don't know if there's anything short of a rating of less than 2 viewers that would be enough to have them cancel. They're probably counting on a ratings spike after the arrest. I'm almost surprised they're not running a CO marathon right now like they did with 19K after the first scandal came out.

[Marshmallow Mollie]

3 hours ago, hathorlive said:

We have busted sites with CP and taken the user's list info and parsed them out to the local police in that area.  

Okay now I am even more intrigued. Last week the senior pastor of a Baptist Church was arrested for downloading child sexual abuse images after “the local police received a tip.” This was a day or two before Josh was arrested. I zeroed in on it because I was trying to figure out if it was the same church the Rods had visited in late 2019. I even went to their blog to try and figure it out 😫. 
 

I had decided it was a coincidence since Josh was brought it by the Marshalls and local pastor was brought in by the sheriff’s dept, but maybe there was some gross connection.

[mittsigirl]

1 hour ago, quarks said:

Speaking of Casey Anthony, she's essentially had to go into hiding for the past decade or so.

I suspect the same will be true for Josh Duggar, even if - perhaps especially if - he's found innocent at trial. 

And if he does get to jail then they will have to keep him separate from the general population, because of his crimes being against children.

[Tuxcat]

29 minutes ago, Zella said:

I don't think TLC has any plans of canceling the Duggars any time soon. The statement they released seemed like their argument is Josh is not on the show, so not relevant to the show. At the same time, I can also see them not being terribly motivated to promote it or release new material right now. They might be playing wait and see regarding the case to see if further developments require additional damage control from them. 

In order to keep the show alive, perhaps they'll need a Hail Mary? Jana's courtship perhaps. Irony everywhere.

[MaryAnneSpier]

2 minutes ago, mittsigirl said:

And if he does get to jail then they will have to keep him separate from the general population, because of his crimes being against children.

Honestly, I think being in prison if he's separated from general population will be the most liberated he's felt in years. He won't have to have six kids running around, he won't have to hide what he's doing in his free time. Heck, he might even benefit from working out, eating less, and having access to books and education. Ironically, it may be the most free he's felt since he was a little kid. 

[irisheyes]

3 minutes ago, MaryAnneSpier said:

Honestly, I think being in prison if he's separated from general population will be the most liberated he's felt in years. He won't have to have six kids running around, he won't have to hide what he's doing in his free time. Heck, he might even benefit from working out, eating less, and having access to books and education. Ironically, it may be the most free he's felt since he was a little kid. 

Wouldn’t it be ironic if Josh was able to actually get that law degree he’s been wanting in prison?

JB and Michelle - our kid had to go to jail to achieve his ambition. 

[Zella]

4 minutes ago, MaryAnneSpier said:

Honestly, I think being in prison if he's separated from general population will be the most liberated he's felt in years. He won't have to have six kids running around, he won't have to hide what he's doing in his free time. Heck, he might even benefit from working out, eating less, and having access to books and education. Ironically, it may be the most free he's felt since he was a little kid. 

Just anecdotally, I've noticed the people who tend to do better in prison are types who respond well to structure. I think Josh wouldn't have a problem with being separated from his family, but I think he will really struggle with having to follow rules. He's always been above the rules. That's going to be a real bitch slap to him to suddenly have to be beholden to them in his thirties. 

[Churchhoney]

15 minutes ago, Marshmallow Mollie said:

Okay now I am even more intrigued. Last week the senior pastor of a Baptist Church was arrested for downloading child sexual abuse images after “the local police received a tip.” This was a day or two before Josh was arrested. I zeroed in on it because I was trying to figure out if it was the same church the Rods had visited in late 2019. I even went to their blog to try and figure it out 😫. 
 

I had decided it was a coincidence since Josh was brought it by the Marshalls and local pastor was brought in by the sheriff’s dept, but maybe there was some gross connection.

Yeesh. A Liberty grad, this guy -- who had a photo of the rape of a naked girl aged 10-12 -- had various pastor jobs around the U.S. and has been a church planter in Ghana. Spreading his greatness on two continents. And unlike Josh he only has four children who'll be traumatized by this. 

[Arkay]

10 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

In order to keep the show alive, perhaps they'll need a Hail Mary? Jana's courtship perhaps. Irony everywhere.

I truly hope Jana gets to continue her courtship, if that’s what she wants, and doesn’t lose her chance due to Josh. I don’t care if it’s on TV or not; I would like for her to have her own happiness. She may choose to stay at the TTH house instead so she can be there for her suffering younger siblings, and then she’d be collateral damage due to Josh. 

[Soaper410]

As a total (but maybe not really) side note.  

I was 99% sure Anna was going to name her kid Magnolia (and call her Maggie) which I know others think too because of her love of Chip & Joanna.  

Now I'm sure its going to be Mercy (for what Josh should be given) or Mia (as in Josh will be M.I.A since he's going to prison). 

Edited May 3, 2021 by Soaper410