Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[madpsych78]

Quote

HSI is the second largest criminal investigative agency (8,700+ special agents) in the United States and is primarily responsible for investigating transnational crime.  HSI investigates violations of laws related to human rights, human smuggling, cybercrime (i.e. child pornography), narcotics smuggling, weapons and other types of related contraband, financial crimes, intellectual property rights, transnational gangs, and export enforcement issues. 

A synopsis of what Homeland Security investigates...

[PikaScrewChu]

Well well well... One of these fundie assholes is finally getting their comeuppance?

[Temperance]

15 minutes ago, Teriacky said:

According to People, Josh was arrested by Homeland Security. 

People magazine is doing shitty journalism. Homeland Security did the raid back in 2019. He could have been arrested on their behalf, but there's no direct evidence that Homeland Security is involved now. It could be true, but their sources are wonky. 

They also said the Ashley Madison took place a month after the birth of M4. It didn't. It was the same month, because TLC cancelled 19 kids after the Ashley Madison scandal took place. The show was cancelled the day M4 was born.

[BitterApple]

Is anyone else feeling Christmas morning levels of anticipation for tomorrow? I seriously hope and pray these charges have nothing to do with kids, but damn if I'm not excited to see Joshley in an orange jumpsuit (hopefully) being denied bail. 

 

[emmawoodhouse]

19 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Is anyone else feeling Christmas morning levels of anticipation for tomorrow? I seriously hope and pray these charges have nothing to do with kids, but damn if I'm not excited to see Joshley in an orange jumpsuit (hopefully) being denied bail. 

 

I hope Smuggar sings like a canary and takes Boob down with him. 

Edited April 30, 2021 by emmawoodhouse

[PikaScrewChu]

4 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

I hope Smuggar sings lime a canary and takes Boob down with him. 

I want the lot of them to go down. The entire extended fundie universe. 

Guess I have to settle for Smugs right now.

[jcbrown]

26 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

I hope Smuggar sings like a canary and takes Boob down with him. 

So say we all.

[3 is enough]

He looked high to me in the mug shot, which leads me to wonder if he got involved in criminal activities to finance his habit.  It’s not inconceivable.  

[Jennifersdc]

1 hour ago, madpsych78 said:

A synopsis of what Homeland Security investigates...

Hi - I’ve never watched any of these shows or have ever posted on this thread before. But as a long time member going way back to Television Without Pity...

WTF? Who the fuck gets arrested by the US Marshal’s on behalf of Homeland Security? Homeland Security didn’t have their own guys? And what the fuck did you do for Homeland Security to come after you in the first place? Not in FBI’s jurisdiction? Even if - why would the FBI be coming after you?

I cannot even imagine a scenario that any of the above would come looking for me - and I’m no angel (see Handbasket to Hell re “reality”tv).

[MsJamieDornan]

2 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

I hope Smuggar sings like a canary and takes Boob down with him.

That is my biggest hope.

I actually don't care if anything happens to Josh, if it happens to be something like money laundering, I want to see JimBooger taken down and buried.  I really dislike that piece of garbage. 

[Tabbygirl521]

If a person was criming while storming the Capitol on Jan 6, would any subsequent arrest be via Federal Marshals? Just wondering. I have no info on any particular person being in this situation.  

[GeeGolly]

Josh's statement following charges:

I apologize to my wife, kids and family. Satan came back and built a new fortress. Please allow us privacy during this trying time.

[Iguessnot]

29 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Josh's statement following charges:

I apologize to my wife, kids and family. Satan came back and built a new fortress. Please allow us privacy during this trying time.

Is that accurate? I could see that line uttered on SNL.

[GeeGolly]

2 minutes ago, Iguessnot said:

Is that accurate? I could see that line uttered on SNL.

No, Josh hasn't been charged yet. I made it up.

[Annb67]

5 hours ago, cereality said:

Former federal court lawyer here — federal charges are never insignificant. US Attorneys Offices are busy and always under staffed — they don’t bring petty crime type of cases because it isn’t worth their time. At this point Anna better be praying that this a financial/tax fraud type of issue not a porn ring, prostitution, trafficking, or molestation type of issue — and if charged for any of those sex type of crimes are brought in federal court, you’re looking at a crime ring type of situation, not a one off molestation type of case (bc that would go to state court).

Any idea what time the initial appearance is tomorrow? That’s when we’ll see a criminal complaint and more importantly the supporting affidavit which sets out what he did.

So if it is financial, tax fraud situation; is that guaranteed some jail time?

[Kellyee]

Quote

WTF? Who the fuck gets arrested by the US Marshal’s on behalf of Homeland Security? Homeland Security didn’t have their own guys? And what the fuck did you do for Homeland Security to come after you in the first place? Not in FBI’s jurisdiction? Even if - why would the FBI be coming after you?

I always laugh when famous people try to claim it's so easy to get arrested. I've never even come close. I don't know anyone who has been arrested either. Having Federal agents haul you off sounds pretty serious.

The title of this thread gets more and more accurate as time goes on. Meanwhile, Anna keeps pushing out babies on that 2 year schedule. I wonder more about what's wrong with her than I wonder about what's wrong with Josh.

 

 

 

[zenme]

10 hours ago, Madtown said:

I would love to be a fly on the wall at Jill and Derick's.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Derek tipped an agency off to begin with.

[Madtown]

37 minutes ago, zenme said:

I wouldn’t be surprised if Derek tipped an agency off to begin with.

I've been wondering if they somehow knew about this and is why Jill has been talking about being stressed lately.

[Lisa418722]

The empathic part of me can feel sorry for Anna because she has been trained since infant-hood to be a wife and a mother and (this is my thought only) not to concern herself with anything her husband does because it's just not a woman's place to question anything her husband does. 
The reality part of me has no sympathy for Anna because she spends so much time deluding others and herself that Josh is a diligent worker who was overjoyed at announcing M7.  
The only ones I do feel complete sympathy for are the M-kids.  They were born into this shit-show and no one deserves that. 
I can't help but wonder will JB be brought down with all of this.  Since we know JB was at Big Sandy when this all went down. But I'm sure if JB was also involved to the point where an arrest could be made, they would have waited  (or in my fantasy, arrest JB while he's on stage talking about his oh-so-wonderful family).  
Hmmm, wonder what Katey and Claire's families are thinking this morning. 
I can't wait to hear what the charges are.  I'm working from home this morning so it will be easier for me to keep an eye on this site while trying to work.  
Re-reading this - I'm wondering a lot of things. LOL  

[ginger90]

4 hours ago, Jennifersdc said:

WTF? Who the fuck gets arrested by the US Marshal’s on behalf of Homeland Security? Homeland Security didn’t have their own guys?

The Marshals Service assumes custody for all prisoners charged with a federal offense, no matter which agency made the arrest.
 

Reference: https://www.usmarshals.gov/prisoner/index.html

 

[hathorlive]

6 hours ago, madpsych78 said:

A synopsis of what Homeland Security investigates...

Again, Homeland Security is one of THE most funded federal agencies.  They fund hundreds of nation wide tasks forces on every conceivable topic:  dark web activity, drug cartels, human trafficking, financial crimes.  Josh could have been investigated by a task force made up of local, regional and state entities that is funded by Homeland Security.  I've been on dark web search warrants before where my federal agency got the collar (aka gets the credit for that arrest) that was supported by the homeland security task force (their intelligence, equipment, funding).  It's the federal government's way of training and supporting local Law Enforcement so they can do better and more sophisticated case work.  So until we hear the specific charges, we won't know who started the investigation.   It MAY be that Homeland Security itself did the case.  But in my experience (for that's worth) it may be the Springdale Police, who are part of the taskforce against Smug Smuggars, who did the work, built the case, did the recon, and jacketed the case.

[galaxygirl76]

He looks smug and like he thinks his daddy will come and save him from his problems in his smugshot. 

 

My lunch break will be right around when we'll find out what the charges are. 

[MargeGunderson]

6 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Is anyone else feeling Christmas morning levels of anticipation for tomorrow? I seriously hope and pray these charges have nothing to do with kids, but damn if I'm not excited to see Joshley in an orange jumpsuit (hopefully) being denied bail. 

 

I have cleared my calendar 😉

[awaken]

7 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Is anyone else feeling Christmas morning levels of anticipation for tomorrow? I seriously hope and pray these charges have nothing to do with kids, but damn if I'm not excited to see Joshley in an orange jumpsuit (hopefully) being denied bail. 

 

I’m embarrassed to admit that I stayed up way too late reading about this and woke up early in anticipation 😬

[Churchhoney]

5 hours ago, Jennifersdc said:

Hi - I’ve never watched any of these shows or have ever posted on this thread before. But as a long time member going way back to Television Without Pity...

WTF? Who the fuck gets arrested by the US Marshal’s on behalf of Homeland Security? Homeland Security didn’t have their own guys? And what the fuck did you do for Homeland Security to come after you in the first place? Not in FBI’s jurisdiction? Even if - why would the FBI be coming after you?

I cannot even imagine a scenario that any of the above would come looking for me - and I’m no angel (see Handbasket to Hell re “reality”tv).

The Marshals often do the pickups and transporting and all that stuff on behalf of all the federal agencies. That's one of the Marshals' main jobs -- they chase down fugitives, find people who are wanted by other agencies and pick up people for the other federal agencies when there are no other agents from the actual arresting agency free at the time in the area where the person is. The Marshals are basically highly expert gofers, protectors, escorts, etc. 

6 hours ago, 3 is enough said:

He looked high to me in the mug shot, which leads me to wonder if he got involved in criminal activities to finance his habit.  It’s not inconceivable.  

Either that or the thought of this happening -- which has to have been active in his mind at least since the 2019 raid -- has increased his desire for chemically induced oblivion at the moment....

Once DHS had picked up his computer, he had to know what highly trained government agents would be looking for on it -- and that someone would most likely find it. So that's nearly two years of a very specific fear very very much in his head, no doubt. That wouldn't go away, day or night,  probably.

So either your suggestion or this one or BOTH are all good possibilities, I'd say. 

 

Edited April 30, 2021 by Churchhoney

[Minivanessa]

6 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Is anyone else feeling Christmas morning levels of anticipation for tomorrow? 

Hee! @MargeGunderson's calendar is cleared for this, and mine didn't need clearing. I slept badly last night, since I had a rare-for-me upset gut which has finally calmed down. I'm so ready to find out what Josh is charged with and where bail is set. It's bringing a little oomph to my otherwise blah morning. 

9 minutes ago, galaxygirl76 said:

He looks smug and like he thinks his daddy will come and save him from his problems in his smugshot. 

My lunch break will be right around when we'll find out what the charges are. 

Doncha know JB is going to HATE having to fork over fees and tie up money/property as surety to bond Josh out of jail? And pay to hire a criminal defense lawyer for Josh? Depending on the nature of the charges, JB may not be able to lean on some fundie type lawyer to take the case for cheap. Hee hee.

I'll be refreshing my Google search later today for news of the hearing. Hope some reporters attend the hearing, whether it's a video hearing (pandemic) or in-person. 

IMO if the Duggar show was one of TLC's flat-out "we're trashy/crazy/dysfunctional and happy to act it all out for the cameras" series? Josh's arrest and criminal charges would. be a GREAT plot twist. Crews would have been rushed out to Arkansas yesterday afternoon and the cameras would be rolling. It would be GOLDEN for the show and all involved in it.

However, since the show is all phonied up and is about these earnest Christians who court like it's 1821 and pump out babies like nobody's business? Not to mention the family will not defy JB and be real and honest on camera, or say anything to sully the wonderful image of Duggarworld? Bad situation (as my TLC secret crush Dr. Now would say).

Is the Duggar name getting toxic in fundieland - or will they successfully spin this as just the devil (and the ebil government) persecuting godly Christian people?

[Churchhoney]

4 hours ago, MsJamieDornan said:

That is my biggest hope.

I actually don't care if anything happens to Josh, if it happens to be something like money laundering, I want to see JimBooger taken down and buried.  I really dislike that piece of garbage. 

JB and M and Gothard collaborated to warp their whole absurdly big family into a horror show. And, yeah, as the kids have become adults they share some of the blame. But, for me, the bottom line is that the kids didn't start it. Not even Josh did way back when.....

And their parents handled all of it horribly and, in my opinion, with  nothing really on their minds but their own personal (as in JB and M's...) greater glory,  in this world and the next. 

That's why Jinger's bullshit in the book about how the Josh stuff "brought them closer" absolutely enrages me ....

Yeah -- They were "brought closer' when JB realized he could blame media and government workers for revealing some things in the story....So he and M rallied everybody around making those people the enemy and the cause of all Duggar troubles. And they probably felt "close" as they railed against somebody else who hurt all the Duggars!!!! And they felt "close" as they sued with JB hoping to reap millions off of it. ....

But all that whole episode really was for was to distract everybody from the true originating causes of all the problems -- JB and M and their Gothard God -- and pretend that JB and M were utterly blameless and they were all victims of the evil media and the evil government. 

That wasn't "closeness." It was clever lies on JB's part to avoid facing any real truths about himself, his wife and his cult leader -- and to avoid examining their real family issues and getting people real help and offering apologies. That would have been closeness. 

But what they did instead was create some second-tier enemy to point the finger at so all their stupid brainwashed children would rally round their oh-so-loving mother and father and protect the sacred family and not even realize for one second that their fucking parents are the actual root of the thing and have never tried to get any of them, even Josh, any real assistance of a kind that would help ....  or utter any actual truths to their kids at all. Closeness my aunt fanny. 

Jingle's shit about how her parents brought strangers into the home because they're so loving and her shitty mother's soft kiss and "0h, darling, Jinger." All all all a walking hallucination that they've brainwashed Jingle -- and the rest -- into believing from day one to this day. Her portrayal of her rotten totally selfish parents as Christian martyrs for charity and love or something makes me ill. She's an adult in her mid-20s, thousands of miles away from these creeps,  and they've still got their hands in her mouth,  working it like a puppet. 

Josh is a jerk. But the only thing that would ever really make me happy about this family would be to see JB and M (and Gothard, but that's a lost cause, too, now that he's such an old fart) get the massive massive massive comeuppance I believe they deserve for their lifetime of arrogance and selfishness that's wrecked all their children and is now wrecking the next generation -- And they've performed all that wreckage with such stealth and vicious lying that the kids -- save Jill -- still don't have a clue that it's ever happened. All while going off regularly to be paid speakers at "family conferences." Nauseating. 

 

Edited April 30, 2021 by Churchhoney

[laurakaye]

 

6 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

I hope Smuggar sings like a canary and takes Boob down with him. 

I do hope it's financial (for the sake of the kids), and that it means jail time for Smugs, and that several Duggar men - starting with JB - are also implicated and convicted and like so many pasty Wonder Bread dominoes, they topple and fall, taking the next person down with them.

[Tikichick]

1 hour ago, Lisa418722 said:

Hmmm, wonder what Katey and Claire's families are thinking this morning. 
 

They're checking the contracts with the wedding photographers to see what's included regarding photo editing.

[Madtown]

On a local radio station, they mentioned his arrest and said "Josh Duggar was arrested in connection with a used car dealership he once owned. It's unclear what charges he is facing. Sources say the arrest is related to a 2019 Homeland Security raid on his now closed car dealership."

Obviously we have talked about this situation, but just reporting what I heard. I know they get their info from Page 6. 11:00 can't come soon enough!

 

 

[Tikichick]

I do feel sympathy for Anna.   Once again pregnant and major stress, public shame and worry about her husband.   Yes, she could have prevented pregnancy; yes, she was smug about her husband and their lives.   Bottom line, I just think she's been brainwashed and conditioned since birth. leaving her completely unable to consider there are flaws in the belief system. 

She is both part of the problem and a victim of the system.   I truly do not believe she has even the slightest ability to recognize all of the egregiously erroneous things she believes because it is the entire foundation she stands on, and has taught her children to stand on.     

Edited April 30, 2021 by Tikichick

[Kellyee]

Quote

I do feel sympathy for Anna.   Once again pregnant and major stress, public shame and worry about her husband. 

More and more, I think Anna is the driver behind the pregnancies. I think she is the one who wants 19 kids, not Josh. I remember when they announced M4 and Josh looked miserable then.

 

 

 

 

[JocelynCavanaugh]

9 hours ago, Gweilo said:

Depending on the information we learn in the next few days, could we perhaps consider changing the title of this thread? I just feel like, this has gone beyond unfortunate events, and into CRIMES.

 

There were already crimes. This thread title was my submission back when we were naming threads, so I vote we keep it. 😊 The understatement is the joke. 

[FizzyPuff]

15 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

The kids, yes. Anna, no.

I feel for Anna she is so brainwashed, she probably feels stuck now and this is her life and just accepts it.

15 hours ago, Rabbittron said:

He looks so fucking smug in his mug shot

I want to slap that smirk off his face! 

14 hours ago, iwantcookies said:

Maybe counting on will get canceled?!

We can only hope.

10 hours ago, EarlGreyTea said:

Derick and Jill gave a super brief statement here.

 

I wonder if those two are having a party or they’re gonna wait till Josh is behind bars.

14 minutes ago, Kellyee said:

More and more, I think Anna is the driver behind the pregnancies. I think she is the one who wants 19 kids, not Josh. I remember when they announced M4 and Josh looked miserable then.

 

 

 

 

Josh is the headship in his family if he didn’t want more kids he should’ve said something to Anna. They say that it’s the men in control in this cult but it seems like the women control a lot of things too. For all the sneaking around he does he couldn’t have sneaked around and got a vasectomy.

[Crochetlady]

I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the various Duggar households this morning.  I wonder how Anna is spinning this with her kids. Where is daddy? When is he coming back? 

I truly hope they didn't see him get arrested. But they probably did, unfortunately. 

[Lisa418722]

1 minute ago, FizzyPuff said:

Josh is the headship in his family if he didn’t want more kids he should’ve said something to Anna. They say that it’s the men in control in this cult but it seems like the women control a lot of things too. For all the sneaking around he does he couldn’t have sneaked around and got a vasectomy.

His family became rich and famous (well in the context of reality show stars) because of having more kids than they could afford.  He should have had a vasectomy, but (a) he didn't have the money to pay for one and (b) JB wouldn't give him the money to have one because more kids means more money in their screwed up views, after all weddings and babies is what has made this family famous / infamous. Also he probably thinks having a vasectomy would make him less of a man (not that he is any sort of man other than fathering children).  He could have told Anna he didn't want any more kids and went to Sam's to buy extra condoms, but for whatever reason he didn't/wouldn't. 

[Crochetlady]

Just now, Lisa418722 said:

His family became rich and famous (well in the context of reality show stars) because of having more kids than they could afford.  He should have had a vasectomy, but (a) he didn't have the money to pay for one and (b) JB wouldn't give him the money to have one because more kids means more money in their screwed up views, after all weddings and babies is what has made this family famous / infamous. Also he probably thinks having a vasectomy would make him less of a man (not that he is any sort of man other than fathering children).  He could have told Anna he didn't want any more kids and went to Sam's to buy extra condoms, but for whatever reason he didn't/wouldn't. 

And in their world, they are making babies God. Or some crap like that. I don't think Josh would ever think about it. 

[Tikichick]

22 minutes ago, Kellyee said:

More and more, I think Anna is the driver behind the pregnancies. I think she is the one who wants 19 kids, not Josh. I remember when they announced M4 and Josh looked miserable then.

 

 

 

 

I wouldn't doubt that one bit.   That's exactly what Anna believes she is supposed to be doing, fulfilling her husband's desires, and then God blesses them with more children.  I genuinely do not think she recognizes another option.    The more children she has, the more she sees herself as living a life that God approves.   She also probably has more status as a mother of, I forget how many, than she did as a mother of two or three.   

I do think Josh realizes that, had he not screwed up their ability to live independently, he could have done something to stop the baby train because he would have theoretically had the authority to be the headship in his own marriage.   We all know he screwed  up and they had to scurry back to the fold and JB's perpetual headship.  Irony being, both Josh and JB have wound up foisted on their own petards -- Josh has zero control over his life, and JB is stuck grinning like a monkey every time Anna becomes pregnant once again.   No doubt in my mind JB does not want to support that endless string of mouths to feed, but he has absolutely no way to prevent the breeding and he knows he would be publicly roasted for turning his back on the helpless mother and grandchildren.    

[laurakaye]

So were most of the family posting on SM like they usually do the day before and the day of Josh's arrest?

It is interesting to speculate if the family knew this might be coming or if they were caught completely unaware.  We had two surprise, low-key weddings but we also still had Jeremy posting about pretentious food and golf socks, so it's hard to tell.

[GeeGolly]

I hope Josh, and any others charged, get what they deserve nothing more nothing less.

This a family. Seeing their brother(s?) and possibly father charged with crimes is not going to makes things better for any of them.

I'm as eager as everyone to see Josh charged this afternoon and I'll snark along with the rest of you. I'll even joke about some of the impact on the siblings. But I really do feel bad for Anna, the kids and the siblings. At least that's where I'm at now.

[SunnyBeBe]

I’ve lost sympathy for Anna at this point.  I do feel for the oldest daughter Mackynzie who will be devoting a lot of her time with childcare and household duties.  It’s very unfair for the older daughters to get this responsibility.  Of course Anna likely thinks it’s a treat:(   

[Minivanessa]

30 minutes ago, Crochetlady said:

And in their world, they are making babies [for] God. Or some crap like that. I don't think Josh would ever think about it. 

That may be true for most of the other kids, but I'm not sure it is as to Josh. As the firstborn, he was old enough to remember how his family life changed when JB and Michelle became fundies and Gothardites. IIRC Josh actually attended school, kindergarten and maybe first grade. He may be a moral idiot, but IMO he's not intellectually stupid, and we all know that kids can be very discerning about what they see and hear in their direct experience. 

Even in the early days of the TLC shows, it was said that Josh had wanted to be a lawyer. There was AFAIK no discussion of that on the show that showed anybody taking Josh's lawyer talk seriously.  If his eejit parents thought it was okay for Josh to want to do that, they could have figured out how to parlay Josh's home school high school education into college and law school for him. But that comment about wanting to be a lawyer IIRC was just handled as just one of those idle "things kids say," like a five year old who says that when she grows up she wants to be a a rockstar. Cute, but not anything to take seriously.

Josh had a mainstream life as a small child, then experienced his parents going fundie/Gothard, pulling him out of school, limiting his life to an existence where he mainly interacted with the growing number of babies his parents pumped out, and with non-relatives at fundie/Gothard/ATI/IBLP gatherings - and he was aware of the differences. He was the favored child, the designated Crown Prince of the Duggar kingdom. [ETA: I've just remembered that when Josh was a kid, JB served a term or so in the Arkansas legislature, and he took Josh with him to the Capital every day, all the time, even to hearings and meetings where the subject matter was not appropriate for a 12 year old or whatever age Josh was then. So Josh got glimpses of the world beyond his crowded family home for a few years there. and probably entertained ideas of being involved in that world - but instead JB lost his Senate race and the days of going to the Capitol were over for Josh.]

I think that the last thing in the world that Josh wanted, was to follow in his parents' footsteps and live the life they wanted him to, even as the favored Crown Prince of the family.  I think a lot of his behavior has come from his passive-aggressive obedience to his parents' script for his life. His one attempt to chart his own course in life - getting the FRC job and moving away - blew up and landed him back in Arkansas and firmly under his parents' thumbs once again. 

I believe he's not on board with the baby train thing, and would have liked a family with just a few children. I think he's a weak and troubled guy. And if it's true he's committed crimes so bad as to get the attention of law enforcement (and FEDERAL law enforcement at that), then he's a weak and troubled criminal. I doubt anybody forced him to commit crimes. 

I doubt he really shares his family's religious beliefs, although he doesn't see any way out of that world, and goes along with it all.  

Edited April 30, 2021 by Jeeves

[GeeGolly]

4 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I’ve lost sympathy for Anna at this point.  I do feel for the oldest daughter Mackynzie who will be devoting a lot of her time with childcare and household duties.  It’s very unfair for the older daughters to get this responsibility.  Of course Anna likely thinks it’s a treat:(   

Its so much more than childcare though. Their dad has been arrested. They're just little kids. Innocent kids. IMO, no kid deserves to live through something like this.

[SMama]

I think is very telling that Jill hasn’t turned off comments in her IG. She’s getting rightfully needed support. I bet it chaps JB’s hide. I hope the positive reinforcement helps Jill in her healing journey. Clearly the only one no longer under JB’s thumb. 

[JoanArc]

 It’s Christmas morning! One more hour! 

 

 

[Tikichick]

15 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

That may be true for most of the other kids, but I'm not sure it is as to Josh. As the firstborn, he was old enough to remember how his family life changed when JB and Michelle became fundies and Gothardites. IIRC Josh actually attended school, kindergarten and maybe first grade. He may be a moral idiot, but IMO he's not intellectually stupid, and we all know that kids can be very discerning about what they see and hear in their direct experience. 

Even in the early days of the TLC shows, it was said that Josh had wanted to be a lawyer. There was AFAIK no discussion of that on the show that showed anybody taking Josh's lawyer talk seriously.  If his eejit parents thought it was okay for Josh to want to do that, they could have figured out how to parlay Josh's home school high school education into college and law school for him. But that comment about wanting to be a lawyer IIRC was just handled as just one of those idle "things kids say," like a five year old who says that when she grows up she wants to be a a rockstar. Cute, but not anything to take seriously.

Josh had a mainstream life as a small child, then experienced his parents going fundie/Gothard, pulling him out of school, limiting his life to an existence where he mainly interacted with the growing number of babies his parents pumped out, and with non-relatives at fundie/Gothard/ATI/IBLP gatherings - and he was aware of the differences. He was the favored child, the designated Crown Prince of the Duggar kingdom. [ETA: I've just remembered that when Josh was a kid, JB served a term or so in the Arkansas legislature, and he took Josh with him to the Capital every day, all the time, even to hearings and meetings where the subject matter was not appropriate for a 12 year old or whatever age Josh was then. So Josh got glimpses of the world beyond his crowded family home for a few years there. and probably entertained ideas of being involved in that world - but instead JB lost his Senate race and the days of going to the Capitol were over for Josh.]

I think that the last thing in the world that Josh wanted, was to follow in his parents' footsteps and live the life they wanted him to, even as the favored Crown Prince of the family.  I think a lot of his behavior has come from his passive-aggressive obedience to his parents' script for his life. His one attempt to chart his own course in life - getting the FRC job and moving away - blew up and landed him back in Arkansas and firmly under his parents' thumbs once again. 

I believe he's not on board with the baby train thing, and would have liked a family with just a few children. I think he's a weak and troubled guy. And if it's true he's committed crimes so bad as to get the attention of law enforcement (and FEDERAL law enforcement at that), then he's a weak and troubled criminal. I doubt anybody forced him to commit crimes. 

I doubt he really shares his family's religious beliefs, although he doesn't see any way out of that world, and goes along with it all.  

I never knew Josh went to a real school at all, or had lived a mainstream lifestyle for a time during his childhood.   I can see that being spun by JB & Co. in light of continuing events with Josh.  

[Tikichick]

6 minutes ago, SMama said:

I think is very telling that Jill hasn’t turned off comments in her IG. She’s getting rightfully needed support. I bet it chaps JB’s hide. I hope the positive reinforcement helps Jill in her healing journey. Clearly the only one no longer under JB’s thumb. 

She should get support.   Any of her siblings deserve support as well.

Unless someone else is implicated in Josh's wrongdoings, they shouldn't face scorn for them.  Josh, JB & M are the ones deserving of the scorn IMO.   If JB & M can take endless praise for their wonderful parenting and what a great job they've done, they can stand up and accept the criticism for how they failed their son, and his wife and children.   

[thehorseofpower]

I feel bad for the kids, yes. Not sure how badly I feel for Anna at this point. I do not feel bad, however, for looking forward to Josh getting punished for whatever it is he did. If you commit a crime, you deserve punishment regardless of the effects on your spouse and children. Perhaps Josh should have thought about those effects before he did whatever it is he did. He received virtually no consequences for abusing his sisters, and we all know how much he appeared to learn from that. I am glad for whatever consequences he is about to get.

It's also possible the environment in the Smuggar home is so toxic with Josh there that the kids could feel relief at having him gone. We don't know what the real situation is in that warehouse. Perhaps this situation will also be a catalyst for the show to end at last and some of the children to finally become disillusioned with the cult they're in and move to more mainstream lives. That would be a positive consequence for all of these kids.

On a lighter note..."smugshot" is pure genius. Dying over that one. 🤣

[cereality]

4 hours ago, Annb67 said:

So if it is financial, tax fraud situation; is that guaranteed some jail time?

Usually yes. Depending on what the charges are sometimes the time can be light -- like a year in prison and then 3-5 years of supervised release with the ankle bracelet (the federal equivalent of probation) which for this family is NBD because they spend all day every day on the compound anyway so more time to pray and make babies.

But it may not be a light sentence IF it's a financial/tax fraud that he's been engaged in over years and years; the lighter sentences are like for a one time embezzlement and you never did it again. If they've been manipulating income/not paying taxes/money laundering for years, that's a different type of charge with a higher sentence because it'll be a larger amount of financial "damage" to the gov't if they haven't paid taxes or to their victims say if they've money laundered.

Though aren't all of their fortunes tied here? If this IS a financial fraud type of thing, you know it was set up by JB because Josh isn't bright enough to do that. But I have a heard time believing it was just set up by JB for Josh ALONE.  All of the brothers and Ben work in the same ridiculous "businesses" like warehouse leasing or towing or the car lot -- they're all drawing income from any such fraud. But I wonder if the difference is that JB and Josh knew it was a fraud whereas Ben and co. were like -- what I got a paycheck for sweeping the garage and selling a car last month.

IDK because this is Josh alone -- and not JB or any of the brothers -- and given his history with his sisters; Ashley Madison; and prostitution -- IDK I feel like there could be something more and something more sordid than financial crime. I'm a fed court lawyer not a therapist but those kinds of problems don't just get fixed because your wife makes 3 more babies with you and is more attentive to your needs and you go to a few weeks of Christian counseling here and there.

[leighdear]

24 minutes ago, SMama said:

I think is very telling that Jill hasn’t turned off comments in her IG. She’s getting rightfully needed support. I bet it chaps JB’s hide. I hope the positive reinforcement helps Jill in her healing journey. Clearly the only one no longer under JB’s thumb. 

She's getting worthless lip-service from leg humpers.   And she relishes every useless, uninformed, prayerful, meaningless word of it.