Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Fuzzysox]

  On 9/14/2015 at 8:39 PM, Anne Elk said:

I don't think that Josh married Anna with no intent whatsoever to be faithful. I doubt he is that introspective or insightful about himself. I think he believed that marriage would mean he would finally get all the sex he wanted and he didn't think past that. And then, when he realized that marriage didn't "cure" him, he probably blamed Anna for not being enough woman for him. That way, he had all the excuse he needed to step out on her.

 

I doubt Josh will ever be honest with Anna about what he wants, because I doubt he is ever honest with himself about what he wants. He knows he should live the Gothard way, so that's what he fronts. When he fails to live up to what he preaches, Gothardite teachings hand him a whole bunch of scapegoats he can blame: his wife, porn, temptresses, his sisters, Satan, etc. Why would he ever look past that and see how he's the one at fault?

I believe this too. Josh is searching for something that he never had....his teenage years. Getting married was the worst thing for him. He is now more trapped than ever.

[kellylovessnark]

This is the Duggars. I don't know the specifics about car seat expirations, but the care seat for Marcus could work for M4.

A quick Google search states that they have a 7 to 10 year life span. So, Josh and Ann could have enough for all 4 children. That assumes they bought them new.

[leighdear]

*LOL*

 

I actually meant that I don't think there is any way Anna could get herself and the kids out of there unnoticed by at least dozen others!  

[truthtalk2014]

  On 9/14/2015 at 9:59 PM, kellylovessnark said:

This is the Duggars. I don't know the specifics about car seat expirations, but the care seat for Marcus could work for M4.

A quick Google search states that they have a 7 to 10 year life span. So, Josh and Ann could have enough for all 4 children. That assumes they bought them new.

They had enough car seats to drive across country after Joshgate2.  So they still have enough.  I was snarking at the 50 carseats.  This is not a valid reason for Anna to stay with Josh.  The truth is, she doesn't really have a valid reason - unless she just doesn't want to leave him.  

 

Women do it all the time that have MUCH less.  

 

I'm TOTALLY with the poster that said the best thing Josh could do would be file for a divorce.  He is not going to change- no matter how many Cisco and bondage programs he endures.  People divorce and kids live through it.  Anna may even meet a nice fundie in the future that wants the same things she does.  

 

Divorce happens all the time.  Don't quote me, but isn't it over 50%?  People live through it and most of the time are happier after getting rid of the baggage.  (See, I did learn something from the Friday night sermons.  ;)

  On 9/14/2015 at 9:59 PM, kellylovessnark said:

This is the Duggars. I don't know the specifics about car seat expirations, but the care seat for Marcus could work for M4.

 

I'm cracking up thinking of Anna one day homeschooling and calling the kids M1, M2, M3, M4.  And I seriously hope the numbers end there. 

[kokapetl]

I do think Josh owes Anna a divorce, and owes it to her to insist on it. If he returns a decent man, he should take the heat.

[TaxNerd]

  On 9/14/2015 at 10:13 PM, truthtalk2014 said:

I'm cracking up thinking of Anna one day homeschooling and calling the kids M1, M2, M3, M4. And I seriously hope the numbers end there.

Picture her starring in 20 years on one of those TLC shows about the women who collect dolls and treat them like real children.

Edited September 14, 2015 by TaxNerd

[kalamac]

  On 9/14/2015 at 8:06 PM, MarysWetBar said:

http://everydaypsychology.com/2008/01/is-dr-phil-actually-psychologist.html?m=1

But he's technically not licensed to act as a psychologist?

This confuses me. Can someone answer this in small talk for me?

Unless they've changed the laws, you don't have to have a license or a degree to practice as a psychologist. You can just hang out a shingle and start seeing people. You can't prescribe medication or anything though, but there's no real oversight, which sucks for the people who do have degrees in Psycology. You do need to be properly licensed for Psychiatry.

[GeeGolly]

  On 9/14/2015 at 10:43 PM, kalamac said:

Unless they've changed the laws, you don't have to have a license or a degree to practice as a psychologist. You can just hang out a shingle and start seeing people. You can't prescribe medication or anything though, but there's no real oversight, which sucks for the people who do have degrees in Psycology. You do need to be properly licensed for Psychiatry.

Any Mental Health Clinician must be licensed or work under someone else's license. There are multiple licensing entities that oversee therapists. 

[Fuzzysox]

How many weeks has Josh been in prison errr I mean RU rehab?

[Satchels of gold]

  On 9/14/2015 at 10:43 PM, kalamac said:

Unless they've changed the laws, you don't have to have a license or a degree to practice as a psychologist. You can just hang out a shingle and start seeing people. You can't prescribe medication or anything though, but there's no real oversight, which sucks for the people who do have degrees in Psycology. You do need to be properly licensed for Psychiatry.

I think you are thinking of the title counselor. You can call yourself a counselor with no liscene but a to call yourself a psychologist requires masters Degree or more.

[CofCinci]

  On 9/14/2015 at 11:11 PM, Fuzzysox said:

How many weeks has Josh been in prison errr I mean RU rehab?

This will be our 4th Friday night watching. Edited September 15, 2015 by CofCinci

[JoanArc]

  On 9/15/2015 at 1:28 AM, CofCinci said:

This will be our 4th Friday night watching.

Five months of bondage to go!

[3girlsforus]

You know if JB ever really needs money he could sell his family to psychologists.  Can you imagine how many PhD students could get their thesis from studying the Duggars? Or published books? 19 disorders and counting....

[What In The]

I think about what Josh grew up with. All Jchelle cares about his being pregnant, all Jimbooby cares about is lolitics and image. Two people who only have room in life for themselves can't possibly help a child in this case Josh.

Sorry, I mesnt politics

[MarysWetBar]

  On 9/15/2015 at 3:10 AM, What In The said:

I think about what Josh grew up with. All Jchelle cares about his being pregnant, all Jimbooby cares about is lolitics and image. Two people who only have room in life for themselves can't possibly help a child in this case Josh.

Sorry, I mesnt politics

I actually am quite smitten with the word "lolitics". Suits that occupation to a T. :)

[Micks Picks]

Joan and Cinci, if Josh isn't there, you do realize we are taking the punishment for him…..

[CofCinci]

  On 9/15/2015 at 6:55 AM, Micks Picks said:

Joan and Cinci, if Josh isn't there, you do realize we are taking the punishment for him…..

He's there.  I saw him that first week before they realized he was on camera.  RU read our live comments and moved him off camera.

[pennben]

  On 9/15/2015 at 6:55 AM, Micks Picks said:

Joan and Cinci, if Josh isn't there, you do realize we are taking the punishment for him…..

 

I'm glad you said that.  I have to admit I have giggled quietly to myself several times over the last few weeks reading the boards thinking that he might not be there and yet so many others are attending Friday services in his place!:) 

Edited September 15, 2015 by pennben

[Featherhat]

Ok so I watched "Duggar Dating Rules" the one where Josh and Anna made the trip from Florida to Arkansas after their engagement, and I want to punch Josh's smug face as he spends all his TH's pontificating about how you shouldn't kiss, even though you are engaged etc and how much more pure that was, blah, blah. Not that it wasn't like that before his scandals came out, but its extra nauseating now.

And sending out various of his younger sisters, including his targets to chaperone against what would presumably be consensual front hugging and rubbing, given all the gross hand sex going on, was vomit inducing.

I watched it to see what he was actually like when they got engaged, and I do think he wanted to get married, if only for the sex and independence. They didn't really know each other very well, which is par for the course but that was some serious hand rubbing and Anna is just as enthusiastic. Now if he/they had had the choice, they might have chosen differently and never got married asap to have sex, but I don't think Josh was exactly pushed into it against his will at the beginning, although Boob and J'chelle probably were hoping it was a solution to their problems.

[xtwheeler]

Just a thought on selling the $65k house, I almost feel like it was done in advance of perhaps a pending lawsuit (5rh victim? Others?) The 65k would still be a reachable asset like the house, but with the cash liquid, Josh could be quietly funneling the cash to other less-reachable places. For example, he could take it out in cash $5k at a time and squirrel some away (with a friend, JD). You'd be surprised how much money you can have access to but not count as your property for the purposes of settling (which of course also just taking cash and keeping it in a drawer or his mattress. Just spit balling here. I'm sure it is some grift plan any way you slice it.

[CofCinci]

  On 9/15/2015 at 10:12 AM, xtwheeler said:

Just a thought on selling the $65k house, I almost feel like it was done in advance of perhaps a pending lawsuit (5rh victim? Others?) The 65k would still be a reachable asset like the house, but with the cash liquid, Josh could be quietly funneling the cash to other less-reachable places. For example, he could take it out in cash $5k at a time and squirrel some away (with a friend, JD). You'd be surprised how much money you can have access to but not count as your property for the purposes of settling (which of course also just taking cash and keeping it in a drawer or his mattress. Just spit balling here. I'm sure it is some grift plan any way you slice it.

He could easily transfer the $65K to JB in payment of some made up debt (or real debt if JB paid the $14k IRS debt).  JB can make an itemized billing statement for the room, board and increased security spent on Josh, Anna, and the children.  Also, I wouldn't put it past JB to make Josh pay for his own "rehab" ($7500).  They can move this money around in so many ways to protect Josh from the pending civil lawsuit of the non-family member victim.

 

Upthread some, it was asked how or why could a victim sue Josh after all this time.  Just a reminder that under Arkansas Code, civil action can begin when a sexual abuse victim start to experience the effects of the abuse years later.   Nightmares?  Intrusive thoughts?  Anxiety?  Hypervigilance?  = $$$$$$$.

[Satchels of gold]

  On 9/15/2015 at 7:24 AM, pennben said:

I'm glad you said that.  I have to admit I have giggled quietly to myself several times over the last few weeks reading the boards thinking that he might not be there and yet so many others are attending Friday services in his place!:)

I popped in for a bit on last fri night, even if Josh isn't there, it's was freakin hysterical.

[Churchhoney]

  On 9/15/2015 at 3:26 AM, MarysWetBar said:

I actually am quite smitten with the word "lolitics". Suits that occupation to a T. :)

 

Particularly when JIm Bob is involved. Oughta be one of the top new words of the year, actually.

  On 9/15/2015 at 7:24 AM, pennben said:

I'm glad you said that.  I have to admit I have giggled quietly to myself several times over the last few weeks reading the boards thinking that he might not be there and yet so many others are attending Friday services in his place!:) 

 

Once again God moves in mysterious ways. ....

[louannems]

  On 9/15/2015 at 8:40 AM, Featherhat said:

Ok so I watched "Duggar Dating Rules" the one where Josh and Anna made the trip from Florida to Arkansas after their engagement, and I want to punch Josh's smug face as he spends all his TH's pontificating about how you shouldn't kiss, even though you are engaged etc and how much more pure that was, blah, blah. Not that it wasn't like that before his scandals came out, but its extra nauseating now.And sending out various of his younger sisters, including his targets to chaperone against what would presumably be consensual front hugging and rubbing, given all the gross hand sex going on, was vomit inducing.I watched it to see what he was actually like when they got engaged, and I do think he wanted to get married, if only for the sex and independence. They didn't really know each other very well, which is par for the course but that was some serious hand rubbing and Anna is just as enthusiastic. Now if he/they had had the choice, they might have chosen differently and never got married asap to have sex, but I don't think Josh was exactly pushed into it against his will at the beginning, although Boob and J'chelle probably were hoping it was a solution to their problems.

[Loves2Dance]

  On 9/14/2015 at 10:16 PM, gimipizzauoldtroll said:

Given the mocking tone and content of your post, I don't think you understood what I am trying to convey. I'm not talking about mere "sleaziness." I'm talking about men using women an a means to an end, and the normalization of objectification of women and what that attitude can lead to. A man doesn't have to be an active rapist to foster rape culture.

Josh didn't need to "sow his oats." He needed to grow up in a household that respects women and have someone explain healthy sexuality as opposed to the porn he is addicted to.

Not intended to be mocking and I did understand the message you meant; I just don't necessarily agree that Josh fits into that category. 

[louannems]

I also just watched the whole scene where Josh Skype's Anna's father, asking his permission to court Anna, whom he had barely met at the water cooler at a previous ATI camping trip in Big Sandy. Mr.Keller agrees, saying God laid it on his heart that Josh Was The One. So Josh shows up in Florida, on Anna's birthday, in a restaurant, to propose. What I Just Can't Get Over is listening to Josh Giggle, Giggle, Giggle, over and over. He giggled like a little girl! He was just SO confident that Anna would say YES.

[Loves2Dance]

  On 9/14/2015 at 7:16 PM, Julia said:

OK, I'm imagining that. Now I'm imagining marrying a woman who isn't allowed to divorce me and promising to be a completely different person for the rest of our lives when I have no particular interest in that life or in fidelity.

 

And if I'm a decent human being for once in my life, I file for divorce and give her a shot at having the life I promised her.

Except she can't have that life unless she leaves the Gothard way too. He has ruined her, for all intents and purposes, in the circle they live in. 

  On 9/14/2015 at 7:55 PM, MarysWetBar said:

Apologies to Dr Fool's fan base but i recall reading somewhere years ago that he isn't even a Dr?

He's more like an ambulance chaser.If it's what the public is watching he will find some way to get camera time from it.

He has a PhD in Psychology, what i think people latched onto is that he never transferred his license from Texas to California. He could have at this point, but he absolutely has his Doctorate degree and is a real doctor. 

[Loves2Dance]

  On 9/14/2015 at 8:39 PM, Anne Elk said:

I don't think that Josh married Anna with no intent whatsoever to be faithful. I doubt he is that introspective or insightful about himself. I think he believed that marriage would mean he would finally get all the sex he wanted and he didn't think past that. And then, when he realized that marriage didn't "cure" him, he probably blamed Anna for not being enough woman for him. That way, he had all the excuse he needed to step out on her.

 

I doubt Josh will ever be honest with Anna about what he wants, because I doubt he is ever honest with himself about what he wants. He knows he should live the Gothard way, so that's what he fronts. When he fails to live up to what he preaches, Gothardite teachings hand him a whole bunch of scapegoats he can blame: his wife, porn, temptresses, his sisters, Satan, etc. Why would he ever look past that and see how he's the one at fault?

I agree with all of this. 

 

One of the biggest injustices that I think JB and Mechelle have done to their kids is not taught them how to cope with the world they live in. You can't live like it's the 1800's in 2015 and expect to get through life without learning to cope with wants, desires, fantasies....etc. etc. That part of your brain is so heavily influenced by your childhood that all of the Duggars children are essentially screwed, Josh is just the first to fall. 

 

I'd bet my entire life savings that JD isn't far behind his brother---he's just smart enough not to get married or be obvious about it. Aside from the Duggar daughter's, I'd be shocked if any of the Duggar boys are actually virgins when they marry. Except maybe Josiah. 

[mizkat]

  Quote

One of the biggest injustices that I think JB and Mechelle have done to their kids is not taught them how to cope with the world they live in. You can't live like it's the 1800's in 2015 and expect to get through life without learning to cope with wants, desires, fantasies....etc. etc. That part of your brain is so heavily influenced by your childhood that all of the Duggars children are essentially screwed, Josh is just the first to fall.

 

I'll add to this--I think it's worse than just not being able to cope with contemporary attitudes about sex and love and marriage. Sex wasn't demonized in the 1800s, it just wasn't talked about in polite society, therefore daily life wasn't hypersexualized like life in the Duggar household is. The messages and actions in that household are so mixed up and hypocritical, how can any of them have a normal outlook on anything? Sex and desire forcefully repressed by two people that are constantly a) having sex b) having babies c) THEIR PARENTS. Its a disastrous tapestry they've woven that only years of therapy can unravel--and we know that ain't happening any time soon. 

[Tabbygirl521]

  On 9/15/2015 at 3:28 PM, mizkat said:

I'll add to this--I think it's worse than just not being able to cope with contemporary attitudes about sex and love and marriage. Sex wasn't demonized in the 1800s, it just wasn't talked about in polite society, therefore daily life wasn't hypersexualized like life in the Duggar household is. The messages and actions in that household are so mixed up and hypocritical, how can any of them have a normal outlook on anything? Sex and desire forcefully repressed by two people that are constantly a) having sex b) having babies c) THEIR PARENTS. Its a disastrous tapestry they've woven that only years of therapy can unravel--and we know that ain't happening any time soon.

I never watched the show except little bits here and there, so I am still in ultra-shocked mode about some of their weirdness. The "in your face" sexual behavior is juvenile, embarrassing, and - under their circumstances - really kind of hostile to the kids. The kids, who are not only forbidden to engage in certain benign behaviors like playing with an opposite-sex sib, but also from even thinking about sex lest you Have Desires. You aren't even supposed to think about it! But suddenly one day you get married, and have your first kiss and first sex in one day. When you haven't even been allowed to imagine what it might be like. I know that in reality, they most likely all DO think about it - who doesn't? But imagine the guilt mixed with normal desire. What a mess!

The kids being encouraged to keep track of Michelle's cycle, with JB's a accompanying leering face and "hey hey hey" is absolutely disgusting.

And nothing will ever top dry-humpin' minigolf. It's all the rage. Seriously, if my husband did that to me, especially in the "capture you from behind and you can't get loose" kind of way, he'd be spitting out teeth.

I grew up in the Sixties and Seventies and I have pretty damn open attitudes about lots of stuff. But the Duggars are just all kinds of messed up about sex.

[camom]

I'm not sure a lawsuit against Joshie for something he did at age 14 or so would be successful.  Now if this happened after the incidents with his sisters, I'd sue Jim Bob and Michelle.  That would be interesting.

Edited September 15, 2015 by camom

[3 is enough]

Regarding the house, lots of states have homestead provisions where your home cannot be included in any type of lawsuit filed against you.  Don't know if Arkansas has anything like this available.

[3girlsforus]

  On 9/15/2015 at 4:06 PM, Tabbygirl521 said:

The kids being encouraged to keep track of Michelle's cycle, with JB's a accompanying leering face and "hey hey hey" is absolutely disgusting.

 

 

This is right up there on the 'barf-o-meter'. Tracking your own mother's cycle with a focus on 'Dad - time to hump Mom tonight' is just vile. There is just so much stunted development in Duggarland. No one in either generation seems to have matured past jr. high. And even that's generous. Can't really tell with Grandma but since she doesn't speak up about it or do anything different I can't see that she's a whole lot better. 

[Lemur]

  On 9/15/2015 at 4:06 PM, camom said:

I'm not sure a lawsuit against Joshie for something he did at age 14 or so would be successful.  Now if this happened after the incidents with his sisters, I'd sue Jim Bob and Michelle.  That would be interesting.

 

I'm pretty sure a civil litigation could indeed be successful, especially based on a police report and other public admissions of guilt.  I'd say there's an 80-20 chance the person who's name was redacted from the police report could get a favorable decision from either a judge or a jury.  I don't think any other person who was not included in that police report could though.  The question I have, and it's procedural, is who would the respondents to such a suit be?  Josh or his parents?  

Edited September 15, 2015 by Lemur

[3girlsforus]

  On 9/14/2015 at 1:55 AM, sometimesy said:

Hell No! I hope this doesn't happen. Anna is the mother of those children. She is responsible for them. The J'slaves need to focus on themselves and what they want and need, not the needs of the group. They will start employing the lost girls. Not fair. Damn cult.

 

I get what you are saying but I think this is a different situation than Anna just wanting to dump her kids off on someone else. She had kids with the understanding that she also had a husband with a job. Now she's alone. I venture to guess that if you had a close friend or family member whose husband was unexpectedly gone for 6 months, leaving behind 4 young kids one of which is a newborn you wouldn't begrudge her some help, especially in the early days of his departure. The idea that Anna had these kids so it's up to her alone to deal is akin to saying Josh's behavior is her fault. 

 

I'm not saying a Duggar sister should be enslaved to Anna permanently, but I have no problem with them helping her for a while. Besides, lets look at the other options. Take Jana, her choices are - live in the TTH and take care of all the kids still at home, deal with JB/Chelle, and be watched 24/7 or move in with Anna, help her with her kids, provide her some companionship, and be as close to 'out of the house' as she's going to get.

[sometimesy]

  On 9/15/2015 at 4:06 PM, camom said:

I'm not sure a lawsuit against Joshie for something he did at age 14 or so would be successful.  Now if this happened after the incidents with his sisters, I'd sue Jim Bob and Michelle.  That would be interesting.

It would be karma if JB purposed to keep all the money and property in his name and HE is the one who gets sued. It also wouldn't be a surprise if Josh is expected to pay for his recovery because it was one of their key points in the Fox debacle. JB does have a judge friend who might be giving free advice. Josh is in a really shitty situation: he is not really employable, he has a wife that wouldn't consider working, he has no education, 4 kids to support, his father controls him and it's all done publically. Redemption tour in 5 months.

[Julia]

And given a choice between living with Anna in a clean house with four children and living in the Duggar house with a dozen more than that, I'm guessing the girls would probably volunteer.

[SometimesBites]

  On 9/15/2015 at 4:06 PM, Tabbygirl521 said:

And nothing will ever top dry-humpin' minigolf. It's all the rage. Seriously, if my husband did that to me, especially in the "capture you from behind and you can't get loose" kind of way, he'd be spitting out teeth.

I grew up in the Sixties and Seventies and I have pretty damn open attitudes about lots of stuff. But the Duggars are just all kinds of messed up about sex.

Because these words cannot only be posted once. So many yeses to spitting out teeth.

[3girlsforus]

  On 9/15/2015 at 5:55 PM, Julia said:

And given a choice between living with Anna in a clean house with four children and living in the Duggar house with a dozen more than that, I'm guessing the girls would probably volunteer.

 

We've already seen that Anna's kids are more normal and better behaved than the Duggar kids so it probably feels like a major vacation for any of the girls to be there without JB/Chele, especially now that Josh isn't there. 

[NEGirl]

As to the law suit, Josh was a minor aged 14 & 15 at the time of the offenses. I do not think he can be sued. However, JB and Mechelle are his parents and apparently did nothing to warn or protect the 5th victim. They knew of Josh's past behavior. I would guess they are the one who would be sued. Hopefully, for a pretty penny too.

 

I would not begrudge  Anna having Jana or Jinger to help her at this time. She has shown herself to be a loving mother who takes care of her kids. Her home is clean, the kids are well behaved and do not looking like orphans. I would bet that given the choice they would run to help Anna and not be at the TTH.

Edited September 15, 2015 by NEGirl

[queenanne]

I dunno, don't you guys think that Anna and a sister-mom walled up together would talk?  

 

I mean, if I know anything about young women, and I think I do having been one myself, I don't know how you'd stop them, or each other.  I should think the urge to gossip and share would be nigh-insurmountable.  

 

It'd be a great thing for them TO talk honestly about the issue I think, don't get me wrong, but I also don't see the parental hegemony allowing this either.  Going together to Target doesn't count, I doubt I'd string two honest words together in public were I they, knowing I might get papped or ratted out by my fellow shoppers, with audio.

Edited September 16, 2015 by queenanne

[kokapetl]

Might be a bit awkward.

[JenCarroll]

  On 9/16/2015 at 6:59 AM, queenanne said:

I dunno, don't you guys think that Anna and a sister-mom walled up together would talk?  

 

I mean, if I know anything about young women, and I think I do having been one myself, I don't know how you'd stop them, or each other.  I should think the urge to gossip and share would be nigh-insurmountable.  

 

It'd be a great thing for them TO talk honestly about the issue I think, don't get me wrong, but I also don't see the parental hegemony allowing this either.  Going together to Target doesn't count, I doubt I'd string two honest words together in public were I they, knowing I might get papped or ratted out by my fellow shoppers, with audio.

They'd probably insist on one of the howlers going along with the sistermom, just to prevent this.

[3girlsforus]

  On 9/16/2015 at 6:59 AM, queenanne said:

I dunno, don't you guys think that Anna and a sister-mom walled up together would talk?  

 

I mean, if I know anything about young women, and I think I do having been one myself, I don't know how you'd stop them, or each other.  I should think the urge to gossip and share would be nigh-insurmountable.  

 

It'd be a great thing for them TO talk honestly about the issue I think, don't get me wrong, but I also don't see the parental hegemony allowing this either.  Going together to Target doesn't count, I doubt I'd string two honest words together in public were I they, knowing I might get papped or ratted out by my fellow shoppers, with audio.

 

Yea - and this is one reason I really hope it happens. My original comment hoping this would happen was in response to someone who said Anna needs to raise her own kids and not have a j'slave. But I really hope it happens, not because I want to see the j'slaves continued in their indentured servitude, but because Anna needs help and companionship and the j'slaves need some semblance of privacy and connection with another person without JB/Chelle. Of course that's exactly why it probably won't happen.

 

But the reality here is that JB/Chelle are between a rock and a hard place. If Anna and her kids aren't living in the TTH then there are two options. Either Anna gets to live alone without a chaperone or a headship and more free to have contact with people like her brother who might be able to get her to think a bit or they send  one of the girls to live with her and they might start talking truthfully to each other without JB to pull the little string to tell them what to say. Either way, it could be a really good thing. 

[Barb23]

  On 9/15/2015 at 12:59 PM, louannems said:

I also just watched the whole scene where Josh Skype's Anna's father, asking his permission to court Anna, whom he had barely met at the water cooler at a previous ATI camping trip in Big Sandy. Mr.Keller agrees, saying God laid it on his heart that Josh Was The One. So Josh shows up in Florida, on Anna's birthday, in a restaurant, to propose. What I Just Can't Get Over is listening to Josh Giggle, Giggle, Giggle, over and over. He giggled like a little girl! He was just SO confident that Anna would say YES.

Yes, Josh was confident. IIRC, on the episode where Ben skypes them about asking Jessa to marry him, Anna made a big deal that Ben seemed over confident Jessa would say "Yes". Anna told Josh that she (Anna) should have told Josh "No" to throw him off when he asked her since he was confident too. I don't think the 20 yr old Anna would have ever done that, even if she was kidding. She was so happy to be asked by THE Josh Duggar she would have never done anything to jeopardize that.

[dillpickles]

  On 9/14/2015 at 3:53 AM, gimipizzauoldtroll said:

We as a society need to stop perpetuating the dangerous idea that college-aged men are allowed to treat women like shit as a part of their maturation process. Rape culture is real.

No one implied that women where going to be treated like trash. The point was if Josh was allowed to have casual sex with consenting adult women, he might not have been the way he is now.

[bigskygirl]

If Josh has a serious addiction letting him have casual sex before marriage would not have solve his problems. And the sad fact is men or women who had normal parents and childhoods can end up with sexual addictions which leads to porn, cheating, hooking up with others just to try to satisfy their needs. Imo, I think Josh probably would ended up with this way even if he had a normal childhood and parents.

[Easyspreestep]

  On 9/16/2015 at 5:33 PM, bigskygirl said:

If Josh has a serious addiction letting him have casual sex before marriage would not have solve his problems. And the sad fact is men or women who had normal parents and childhoods can end up with sexual addictions which leads to porn, cheating, hooking up with others just to try to satisfy their needs. Imo, I think Josh probably would ended up with this way even if he had a normal childhood and parents.

There is no evidence Josh has a serious addiction, all the evidence points to Josh just needing a healthy way to explore sex.  Touching young girls as a teenager was wrong, but would he have done that if his parents allowed him to go to a normal school meet girls his age and have contact with girls.  I don't know the answer to that, but he has not touch young girls since his marriage (that we know of).  All the reports now are of Josh using age appropriate prostitutes wrong but maybe if he was allowed to be a young single guy just dating and having consensual sex with a partner he would not need the prostitutes.  

Edited September 16, 2015 by Easyspreestep

[leighdear]

JB and Michelle can't be everywhere and with everybody at all times.  I'm betting that while none of the J-girls probably want to talk about Anna's sex life with Josh, some of the older ones spend time with her without being snoop-sisters.  For all their dullness and mouthing the Gothard lines, I think Jana, Jinger & Joy are nice girls and probably all cut Anna some slack on her "being sweet" requirements when they're away from the judging eyes of JB and Michelle. 

 

At least I hope it's that way.  But I don't know about Jill & Jessa.  They could be extra-judgy out of fear.

Edited September 16, 2015 by leighdear

[Julia]

I don't think someone who escalates to the genitals of a five-year-old for sexual gratification when his other victims become less easily available is acting out any form of normal psychosexual development.