Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[dillpickles]

I've read several news articles and studies about how first-born children are usually the most successful children in a family.

(for example- http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/apr/26/firstborn-children-excel-study-reveals)

If that's true, the Duggars should really be ashamed at what their firstborn has "accomplished," such as bringing down their little fundie "empire" and destroying their brand. What's going to follow with the rest of the kids?

Jessa will become a stripper, she needs the male attention from someone who won't fire and brimstone her. John-David will become a drug dealer, Jinger will be a hippie photographer, and Jana? Oh, we don't *talk* about her.

(Its always the quiet ones)

Serious stuff aside, flash forward 40 years, I have a mental image of Josh Duggar at age 67.

Too skinny for Joshy boy.

[cmr2014]

This abnormal thinking about sex was created because Michelle and Jim Bob preached to their children that sex is something to hide or be ashamed of. Sex is something that is natural. It's something they should have been open about with their children rather than make every attempt to shield them from it. Parents should be honest with their children and not hold them to standards of behavior and dress that are so rigid that no human could possibly mature normally in a sexual way. Suppression of a cough in church is right. Suppression of sexual thoughts and actions are wrong.

 

Actually, I agree and disagree here. I certainly agree that all of the no looking (NIKE!), no touching, no kissing before marriage is damaging. At the same time, they expose their children to their own relentless hyper-sexuality. It's important for children to be exposed to the idea that Mommy and Daddy love each other and are phsically affectionate with each other, but their endless talking about their own sex lives -- Mommy's cycle calendar on the fridge and the infamous dry-humping at the putt putt course come ti mind -- is just as inappropriate.

 

All parents make mistakes, but JB and J'chelle are such sanctamonious blow-hards that it is really hard to have much compassion for them. I also can't get past the fact that after they found out that their son was molesting their daughters, the made NO changes to the way they parent (or fail to parent) their children, and went on to have SEVEN more children.

[BatmanBeatles]

 

One of my first snarky thoughts when this whole thing came out was that this is double scandal for the Duggars because they don't believe in credit either and Josh had a credit card!

Holy cow, I didn't think of that. Hypocrisy all around.

[cheatincheetos]

I love that he described himself as "pure."

 

Oh, he's pure something, all right.

[JoanArc]

*snort*

This needs to be this topic's subtitle.

Edited August 21, 2015 by JoanArc

[cheatincheetos]

*snort*

This needs to be this topic's subtitle.

That poster looks closer to what Josh wet-dreamed when he signed up than to the real wimmins he managed to pull.

ChickTract-Fil-A.

[kokapetl]

There's no chance any of their kids will grow chins. Edited August 21, 2015 by Kokapetl

[denisett]

Any guesses as to what Josh's "O" face looks like?

[GeeGolly]

I feel bad for Anna. Whether or not she knowingly married someone who "inappropriately touched" his sisters. She was young, naive, and had the approval of her parents. I don't believe her poor choice in marrying Josh makes her deserving of all this. I can't imagine how hard these last few months have been for her. Her husband loses his job while she is pregnant with her 4th child, he loses his 2nd income the day she delivers, and now she is 1 month postpartum, and she finds out her husband is a cheating sleazebag. All that is bad enough on its own, and she has to do it with the world watching.

 

Gothard, quiverfull, fundamentalism, and whatever else factored into this shit storm, doesn't change how bad I feel for Anna or any other woman having to go through this.

[NextIteration]

I got a beating to end all beatings once for looking at a Sears catalog that showed women in their panties and bras. I still have scars on my lower back from that one. 

 

Hugs, what an awful experience.

 

Late back to the party but given all of the edits, I think all manner of things sexually were going on for Josh, probably professionals, affairs, pornography (and masturbation) and webcam girls.  He appears to be a sexual addict to me, and that takes a lot of therapy to heal.  Real therapy - not Gothardite nonsense.  Anna must be feeling humiliated.  I would hope that this secular problem would be met by a secular answer, divorce.  She can write a huge tell-all about all the nonsense, if she'd just open her eyes, and it seems like she's had enough exposure to the outside world to understand this.  I can't have much sympathy for her if she martyrs herself and stays within the insane restraints of this cult.

 

If Josh doesn't get real secular therapy - this will happen again and again, and even if he does the recidivism rate is appallingly high.

As to work for Josh?  Once he's gone through some sort of rehab (and a rather lengthy one) Televangelism.

[GeeGolly]

I'm not sure that Josh has a sex addiction. For most people sexual exploration is gradual; masturbation, National Geographic, Playboy, kissing, 1st base, etc, and porn and actual sex. He wasn't allowed any of that and even thinking about it was considered sinful. I think his recent behaviors of the last 5 years is equivalent to (not the same as) college like behaviors of partying too hard. Only in Josh's case he harmed a lot more people than just himself.

 

Just my opinion, and I don't think JB & M would have insight or own any responsibility in why Josh acts like he does. They would probably rather he has an addiction.

 

And yup, National Geographic & 1st base, I'm old.

[NextIteration]

Josh has displayed classic signs of addiction - pursuing his fix to the detriment of his family, his professional life and his well being.

 

Masturbating to porn a couple times a week isn't it, cheating on your wife isn't it, but a compulsion to continue down multiple avenues with no ability to stop?  That's it.

Edited August 21, 2015 by NextIteration

[CofCinci]

The Hackers have posted more files. http://arstechnica.com/security/2015/08/2nd-dump-from-ashley-madison-hack-is-2x-includes-ceo-e-mail/

[NextIteration]

@CofCinci - most of that second dump is emails and org charts and internal business information of Avid.  I think all the "juicy" data was released in the first dump.

 

I watched an interview last night that indicated that other "big names" have been identified but they are being handled more quietly for whatever reason.  I remain sort of surprised that Josh was the first one out of the gate, but I think the hypocrisy factor was just too high.  Chris Hayes interviewed Dan Savage last night and Dan said he thought that the "average guy" should be left alone, only those that espouse "higher morality" and engage in finger pointing deserve exposure.  I guess Josh's outing was Dan's theory in action.

[WhineandCheez]

Quiverfulling to QueeringFully. ;)

 

Tee Hee, IntotheMystic..  Glad life is happy now!  And your avatar, if that's really your pup, he/she looks like a very wise guru.

 

I don't think Anna has the ability to become a speaker.  Maybe she can pull herself up by her bootstaps and grow a set for her kids sake.

[magpye29]

It's something they should have been open about with their children rather than make every attempt to shield them from it.

 

At the same time, they expose their children to their own relentless hyper-sexuality. It's important for children to be exposed to the idea that Mommy and Daddy love each other and are phsically affectionate with each other, but their endless talking about their own sex lives -- Mommy's cycle calendar on the fridge and the infamous dry-humping at the putt putt course come ti mind -- is just as inappropriate.

 

It isn't just that they talk about it, they TAUNT about it. EVERYTHING JB and J'C do in public is a neener-neener-neener swipe at their kids. Look at us! We can do this, but you can't! Frankly, I think it borders on abusive, but even if it isn't, it's spiteful and childish and waaay TMI for kids about their parents, especially when every normal expression of fondness is ruthlessly squelched and suppressed by those skeevy-ass horndogs.

[phoenix62]

This is what happens when people like Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar live as though they are morally superior to others. With 19 children, there's bound to be at least one black sheep in the flock that will ultimately discredit their smug, sanctimonious charade.  I don't give a damn about Michelle and Jim Bob. But I do feel a deep remorse for the younger Duggar children, Anna and her children, and the family of Anna. They have all been humiliated and will carry Josh's stigma along with him.

 

One thing this whole Duggar experience is good for is to remind us all that people like Michelle and Jim Bob with their fundamentalist preaching, rigid customs and beliefs, are all nothing but frauds. Like the saying goes "if it seems too good to be true, it probably is". People that are sanctimonious and self-righteous are probably just very insecure people attempting to make themselves look better than anyone else.

I signed in to say what you said, and you said it better than me:D mind, I think a lot of people with rigid belief systems mean well but ultimately do harm to the children...but I suspect this couple (meaning Joshe's parents) was abusing the trust and kindness of the people in their religious circle, and when they managed to get in the public eye, they took full advantage of the network. I don't bad AT ALL for TLC, they knew what they were dealing with, I'm sure....but I do feel terrible for the children. Mind, I'm not excusing the oldest one (Josh) one iota, but I'm sure he needs counciling...and plenty of it. I feel terrible for his children. Poor kids. I always thought his little ones were adorable, especially little Mikey.

[ChocolateAddict]

Most of my opinions have been covered by everyone else but here is my 2c anyway.  

Josh is a lying, cheating dickhead who is less qualified than my desk to comment on relationships and morality. At least my desk came from an environmentally sustainable source.  Josh on the other hand, allowed his sisters, wife and parents to go on national TV and talk about how much he changed.  All the while, he knew that he had broken the most basic idea of marriage - monogamy.  Even if he only side-hugged a girl on Ashley Madison he made a concerted effort to have an affair and judging from the statement, it went further than hand-holding.  

That said, J'Chelle and Boob should (but won't) recognise that for some people, courting, early marriage and kids isn't what they want.  Josh was driven into early marriage and the path that Boob and J'Chelle thought best without actually considering what he wanted.  This by no means an excuse, Josh was the one that got down on one knee and promised to be faithful, no one held a gun to his head.  But there was pressure on him and Anna to be the perfect examples of successful courting - they saved their first kiss for marriage, had plenty of blessings and Anna was a SAHM who homeschooled them.  Some people just aren't suited to that life and Josh seems to be one of them.  In my ungodly heathen mind, Josh should have been given the opportunity to sow his wild oats before settling down.  As it is, he ended up doing so after because it probably seemed exciting and a change from the boring domestic home life.  It just goes to show that for all their Godly courting ways, the Duggars still ended up with an adulterer.  IMO the strict and boring way that the kids were bought up probably contributed to the whole thing.  

That said, Josh is still a dickhead who cheated on his probably pregnant wife through an online dating service, no less.  Combined with the fact that he molested his sisters AND made himself the arbiter of morality makes him a waste of space in my books (and I'm being generous!).  

With Anna, we don't know that she doesn't hate Josh and wish that she could leave.  Since the molestation scandal we have seen a  scripted media release and probably carefully scripted social media postings.  It may be the case, as unlikely as it is, that Josh has been sleeping on the lounge for the last few months.  I would hope that behind closed doors, Anna isn't nearly as adoring as people think.  I hope that she has the self-worth to realise that this is 150% on Josh and his inability to keep it in his pants.

Edited August 21, 2015 by ChocolateAddict

[dorcastrilling]

According to their bio on their website -- she homeschooled and graduated high school; I seem to remember her saying something about studying "early childhood education" but she married so young that I'm betting it was some online courses until a suitor came along, not an actual classroom education -- which is what you'd need to teach. I don't see her being able to get a job at a school unless it's a teacher's aide or cafeteria worker -- and honestly I think waitressing would be more lucrative than that.

It would be. I have degrees, and since becoming widowed have found that falling back on that is what allows me to remain independent. If I can be doing it at 60, Anna can be doing it now.

 

Anna is exactly who social services exist for. She would qualify for subsidized housing and child care, as well as food stamps and medicaid. Let the state go after Josh. There are programs for women like Anna coming out of horrible situations that would provide voc re-hab. Problem is someone being able to get this information to her.

 

First and foremost, she has to be made to realize she is not to blame.

[NEGirl]

I feel so sorry for Anna - she and the kids do not deserve this. I for one minute do not believe she knew the whole story of Josh molesting his sisters. She was probably given a sanitized version of what happened and not told the truth until they family was told In Touch was going to break the story - thus the devastated Anna we saw on the last show. I also do not think she is as naive or lame as she pretends to be. I also believe her statement about knowing the whole story about the molestation was written for her and not her words. I believe that she really loves Josh and he probably loves her too. However, she has to realize you can't change a cheater and this must be devastating for her.  The conditions in that house now must be a nightmare. Boob and MeChelle created this nightmare and now Anna and her kids have to live with it.

Edited August 21, 2015 by NEGirl

[NoThyme]

Can you imagine if this scandal hit first while the show was still on tv? I imagine the ratings surge would be huge! I feel bad for any wife finding out that her husband has been having an affair. What makes this really creepy is that this is an online affair for the purpose of sex. He paid for it! What makes it even worse is that the whole world knows about it, how humiliating. I feel bad for Anna. I hope that this isn't seen as a failing on Anna to keep her man sexually satisfied.  I wonder if Josh had a normal upbringing with school and male friends who hid in the shed reading Playboy, had a few girlfriends and wasn't forced into marriage if his life would have turned out to be normal. The same for the other children in the family. I can't imagine being raised as a Duggar or in that climate.    

[Hana Chan]

Well, according to a report in the NY Daily News, Anna will "absorb blame" over Josh's behavior.

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/anna-duggar-absorb-blame-cheating-hubby-report-article-1.2332918

 

This is precisely why my sympathy for Anna is so limited. It's that she totally buys the bullshit proposition that if a man strays, it's because his wife isn't giving him what he needs at home. So to someone trapped in that belief, of course it's at least partly her fault that Josh was having affairs and trolling for porn.

 

Anna strikes me as being the least sexually adventurous woman on the planet. That even in the confines of marriage, there's no room for exploration and just mutual pleasure. No, it's all about missionary position with the lights off and hoping that you made a baby.  That's not totally her fault - she's a product of her upbringing. The problem is that her lox of a husband is looking outside the marriage for something a bit more interesting. I don't know what was going on behind closed doors and if Josh was asking for the occasional bj, with Anna refusing because there was no way his little spermies would make it through her digestive tract and make a baby, but one of three things was going on. Either Josh was asking for something more and not getting it, or he wasn't telling her that he wasn't fulfilled (because he didn't know how), or he made the choice not to tell her because he knew that she would not be able to go along with it. So rather than burdening his "beloved" wife and mother of his children with his unsavory desires, he turned to sinful women.

 

That doesn't mean that I'm letting Anna totally off the hook here. Being boring in bed does not excuse being cheated on if both expressed the same beliefs and expectations about their sex lives. But what happens now is entirely in her hands. In less then four months, she's shouldered the bombshell that her husband had molested several of his sisters and now that he had repeatedly been unfaithful to her. There comes a point when a grown ass woman should accept that her husband's poor behavior has nothing to do with her or her lack of sexual curiosity. It's all on him. Whether she divorces him or stays in the marriage is one thing, but this sickening assuming responsibility for his behavior just shows how toxic this religious mindset really is.

[Marigold]

I agree. I bet she knew very little of the molestation case when they were courting.  Just that it was a front hug instead of a side hug. Through the clothes.

 

I still think Anna might leave. She has sisters who left such a rigid system...she might have the guts. 

And I think Joshie will be leaving for some treatment program for at least 6 months.  Boob and Mechelle are gonna dump him asap. 

 

I bet Jim Bob is spitting on Josh right now. Anna might be crying and her world is turned around.  Jim Bob? I bet he is LIVID. Josh essentially destroyed their entire family. Jim Bob is a competitive man and likes to look good. Josh needs to be more worried about his father than Anna. Jim Bob and those church elders can dish out a spiteful punishment....

[Katydid]

http://www.people.com/article/jim-bob-duggar-michelle-duggar-stunned-josh-duggar-cheating-pornography-scandal

Well, they've started blaming the evil internet and other "outside influences". Saw that one coming. I bet the J'littles still living at the TTH will never see a computer again under that roof. Boob and Mechelle will look like prohibitionists hacking moonshine stills as they destroy every evil instrument of temptation (computer) in the house. And yet I guarantee they are also the types that subscribe to the "guns don't kill, people do!" mantra. And yet once again, Joshy is practically given a free pass from any personal responsibility.

[Oldernowiser]

I don't excuse him squat. I don't care if Anna has had a headache since day two of their marriage. She has had four of his babies, has had to move to follow his "career," and has worshipped the idiot ground this chowderhead has walked on.

Watch your stupid porn, asshole, but keep it at home. This isn't just about morality...this is their livelihood, their religion, their lifestyle, their family, their image, their children's future...it's EVERYTHING. He threw all that away for an orgasm.

Besides, if she's ever refused him anything I'd be surprised and actually hopeful that she might find a spine yet.

ETA: Oy, that People article. "Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar 'Stunned' by Son Josh Cheating, Pornography Scandal: 'They So Strictly Limit Their Exposure to These Sorts of Outside Influences,' Says Source." HE'S TWENTY-SEVEN.

Maybe that's the real problem here. He's never been allowed to grow up and he liked it that way just fine.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Oldernowiser

[Skittl1321]

 

IIRC, Anna has a bachelor's degree in early childhood education from some unaccredited online Christian school, so it isn't worth much in the real world.

I thought this too- but I cannot find ANYTHING that names the school. If she had any sort of degree, even if most of us don't think it is worth a grain of salt, it seems like it would be in the family bio.

Could this blind item today posted by blindgossip.com be about Josh and Anna?

http://blindgossip.com/?p=73291

[blind Gossip] In what may come as a bit of a surprise, this celebrity’s wife is actually breathing a sigh of relief now that the public knows that her husband is a low-down, dirty dog!

Even though she also committed adultery in their relationship, he will look petty and retaliatory if he brings up her cheating during divorce proceedings.

Therefore, it looks like she is going to be able to walk away from the marriage with the money, the kids… AND and a clean reputation!

NO way.  There won't be divorce proceedings.

[graefin]

This is precisely why my sympathy for Anna is so limited. It's that she totally buys the bullshit proposition that if a man strays, it's because his wife isn't giving him what he needs at home. So to someone trapped in that belief, of course it's at least partly her fault that Josh was having affairs and trolling for porn.

 

Anna strikes me as being the least sexually adventurous woman on the planet. That even in the confines of marriage, there's no room for exploration and just mutual pleasure. No, it's all about missionary position with the lights off and hoping that you made a baby. 

I see these two statements as completely contradictory. If the proposition that it's the woman's fault that a man cheats is "bullshit," then it's not her fault, period. Saying that Josh strayed because Anna is "the least sexually adventurous woman on the planet" *is* blaming her and stems from the same patriarchal, sexist mindset the Duggars are being (deservedly) criticized for.

[msblossom]

I think the likelihood of Anna moving on without Josh is slim. But who thinks Josh will stop now? I'm sure he's probably been guilt ridden for some time and was unable to put a stop to the hypocrisy and living a double life. What, he's all the sudden gonna shape up and live the moral life now? I think he'll sincerely try, but I'm doubtful he'll be very successful with it in the long-term without some form of serious therapy that involves more than throwing bible verses at him and prayer. I'm all for prayer and meditating on scripture, but not to the exclusion of trained psychological secular therapy. Will he get it? Probably not. And the cycle continues...this ain't over by a long shot, IMO.

[kathe5133]

These people are such a mess!  “For better for worse in sickness and in health”……..  Anna took those vows.  It would never even occur to Anna to leave.  We, well-educated independent folk, can say “it’s not your fault”, “you are a good person (but do we even know that?)”, “leave that scumbag, etc….”  But those are just words that are going up against a lifetime of training.  She doesn’t know how to leave.  She wouldn’t know what to do.  Her parents would never take her in.  They’ve raised her to be the way she is.  Ok, they raised her sisters too and they broke away, but from the religious oppression, not a cheating husband.  She’s got four kids and no viable means to support them.  She’s was snatched out of her life in an instant.  Whether she knew about the molestations pre or post marriage will most likely never be known.  But I think we will all agree that she married intending to remain faithful and stay committed.   The Duggar way is to “trust in the lord”.  I feel they choose that way because it is the path of least resistance.  They can stay in their rooms and “pray”.  Ok, prayer is fine, but you need to back it up with some action.  The old “god helps those that help themselves……”   Anna will pray too.  Hopefully, she is strong and perhaps having had a taste of the good life before her cheating, piece of shit, husband caused it to be snatched away, will cause her to realize that the lord is really not sitting up in heaven focusing on the needs of Anna Duggar and her four kids and that she needs to go to school, get a job, and get out on her own.  But, what are the odds that Smugger will knock her up at least one more time?

[Hana Chan]

http://www.people.com/article/jim-bob-duggar-michelle-duggar-stunned-josh-duggar-cheating-pornography-scandal

Well, they've started blaming the evil internet and other "outside influences". Saw that one coming. I bet the J'littles still living at the TTH will never see a computer again under that roof. Boob and Mechelle will look like prohibitionists hacking moonshine stills as they destroy every evil instrument of temptation (computer) in the house. And yet I guarantee they are also the types that subscribe to the "guns don't kill, people do!" mantra. And yet once again, Joshy is practically given a free pass from any personal responsibility.

 

99% of the reason that Josh is as screwed up as he is can precisely be traced directly to his parent's bizarre view of sex. Their children get absolutely no education about sex beyond that it's something sinful that should only happen within the confines of marriage, and even then, only for the purpose of procreation. They don't get to date or explore their own sexuality in a healthy normal manner. Forget about doing anything sexually with another person until they say "I do" (and have no idea of they're really going to be compatible with their partner).

 

But then they see their parents acting in a very hyper-sexual manner with one another. It's perfectly fine for parents to be physically affectionate with one another, but JimBoob and Me!chelle turned their sexual lives into a spectator sport for the family. So is it any surprise that in at least one of their children that natural desires come out in a very warped way?

 

This is not to say that boys raised in perfectly normal families don't turn out screwed up at times. Plenty of molesters and cheaters got raised in normal families. But it's impossible to argue that seeing his father hump his mother in front of him while he wasn't ever allowed to even look at a picture of a naked woman is a big part of why he seems to have absolutely no control over his sexual impulses now.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Hana Chan

[NextIteration]

Wasn't he reprimanded for watching porn at work when he was 16?  What is all this bullshit shock about.

 

If it quacks and walks like a duck, it's a god damned DUCK!

 

He's an addict, can't help himself and never could.

 

And the guilt and shame for all of this becoming public will drive him back to all the bad behavior, if he doesn't receive extensive secular therapy.  He admitted he's a porn addict.

Edited August 21, 2015 by NextIteration

[Fuzzysox]

Josh was/is a horny manchild. He should have been allowed to bone as many woman as he wanted when he was of age. They should have let him sow his wild oats because we are seeing now the aftermath of how keeping his sexual desires at bay have caused.

 

Getting him married off created more problems, a poor naive girl stuck in a bad situation with 4 children. Just truly sad!

[kathe5133]

Don't understand the "addict" part.  Truly don't.  He has a disease where a part of his brain makes him call woman to try to have sex with them?  There is a part of his brain that forces him to cheat on his wife?  Did he "catch" this disease or did it develop?  I believe those that attribute their bad behavior to an "addiction" are simply creating a scape goat.  Josh Duggar is a lying, cheating, manwhore who was raised by two simpletons.  Josh's only "addiction" is pleasing Josh.  Why and what made him that way, I'm not qualified to even hazard a guess, and it's not for these forums anyway.  But he needs help.  Help in learning to be a normal man.  And he may be too damaged to ever live a normal life. 

[Hana Chan]

I see these two statements as completely contradictory. If the proposition that it's the woman's fault that a man cheats is "bullshit," then it's not her fault, period. Saying that Josh strayed because Anna is "the least sexually adventurous woman on the planet" *is* blaming her and stems from the same patriarchal, sexist mindset the Duggars are being (deservedly) criticized for.

 

My issue with Anna isn't her probable lack of interest in sex beyond making babies because she is sadly a product of her upbringing. It's the bullshit that she's responsible in any way for Josh straying. There is a very sick mindset in this particular vein of fundamentalist Christianity that a woman assumes the majority of blame for a man's sexual faults. If he cheats, then it's because she's not satisfying him at home. It takes the blame off Josh, that he cannot be held totally responsible for his behavior.

 

But staying with a man who has already proven himself to be so untrustworthy? Taking blame for him repeatedly cheating on her? That I do hold against her. It's not just her happiness and well-being at stake. She's got four kids to worry about that they are growing up in an environment with a father who has shown that he can never be fully trusted. And by taking some of the blame on herself for his actions, she is all but ensuring more problems down the road. It's one thing that Josh finds himself unfulfilled sexually with his wife, but it's entirely another to go behind her back and have affairs. Maybe not figuring out that he's not entirely happy with things is a shared responsibility (though she can't be a mindreader if he's not telling her), but the cheating? That's all on Josh. Anna's responsibility needs to be on taking care of herself and her children, because it's clear that Josh will never be the partner that she needs. And she's so far failing in that area. Again, in large part due to her upbringing but there comes a time when you have to shake off the cobwebs and deal with reality. Otherwise you'd just better be prepared to have the word "doormat" tattooed on your forehead.

[Lemur]

*snort*

This needs to be this topic's subtitle.

Okay, WHY IS THERE A CREEPY ASS CLOWN IN THE BACKGROUND????

 

(Oh, right, that's about what Josh could pull on AM.  I wonder if that was his "guaranteed affair".)

 

(OT, I hate clowns.)

Edited August 21, 2015 by Lemur

[NextIteration]

Personally, I'm not letting Josh off the hook for anything.  Everyone has personal choice, and one of them is admitting there is a problem that needs a solution, that's the responsible first step.

[SongbirdHollow]

Josh has displayed classic signs of addiction - pursuing his fix to the detriment of his family, his professional life and his well being.

 

Masturbating to porn a couple times a week isn't it, cheating on your wife isn't it, but a compulsion to continue down multiple avenues with no ability to stop?  That's it.

 

Agree. My take is that Josh would have done all of this (molestation and adultery) regardless of whether he was brought up Gothard. Presumably, other young men in the religion were able to wait for marriage and are satisfied (Chad Paine comes to mind.) But I think Gothard's cult rules prevented him from getting the real treatment that could have prevented the disaster it has become.

[MuuMuuChainsmoker]

Okay, WHY IS THERE A CREEPY ASS CLOWN IN THE BACKGROUND????)

Hee! I admit, I was too busy looking at the creepy ass clown in the foreground to notice that. Why indeed?

[Julia]

It's funny. If you were to ask me, I wouldn't have said the problem with the Duggars' approach to sexuality was that they hid it from their kids. I would have said that the problem with the Duggars' approach to sexuality is that their father has defined his wife, and by extension his daughters and all women, as something with the ultimate goal in God's plan of providing sex on demand.

I don't really have the words for the idea that a woman raising four small children, including a newborn, who is responsible for all the family and home maintenance, is at fault for not being creative or enthusiastic enough about the sex she's not allowed to say no to. That the husband her notional coldness caused to fall from grace has a long, documented history of exactly this form of misbehavior—long before she ever met him—is lagniappe. For which I also don't really have the words.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Julia

[Soup333]

I feel sorry for Anna because I believe she will "absorb blame" for this and stay with Josh and do everything in her power to make her marriage work. Even if that everything includes acts that she doesn't truly feel comfortable doing. And even then, that may not be enough for Josh. But for all I know, Josh has expressed his desire to be more adventurous and they've been doing everything but hanging from the rafters for years now and THAT still wasn't enough.

 

I think no matter what, if she is pressured to stay - by her upbringing, her in-laws, her guilt, whatever - she'll end up miserable in a few years when she discovers that he's done it again. And again. Because I don't believe he will ever stop. I think he'll try, yes. But eventually, his true nature will surface and he'll be trying to get some side action and fuck it up (maybe literally, maybe not) again and get caught.

 

Edited to add: Violating someone's trust over and over again makes a person paranoid AND will probably tank whatever modicum of self-esteem she has. How much forgiveness is she supposed to muster for this man? Seriously. At some point, it's just not worth it.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Soup333

[Jynnan tonnix]

I feel sorry for Anna because I believe she will "absorb blame" for this and stay with Josh and do everything in her power to make her marriage work. Even if that everything includes acts that she doesn't truly feel comfortable doing. And even then, that may not be enough for Josh. But for all I know, Josh has expressed his desire to be more adventurous and they've been doing everything but hanging from the rafters for years now and THAT still wasn't enough.

 

I think no matter what, if she is pressured to stay - by her upbringing, her in-laws, her guilt, whatever - she'll end up miserable in a few years when she discovers that he's done it again. And again. Because I don't believe he will ever stop. I think he'll try, yes. But eventually, his true nature will surface and he'll be trying to get some side action and fuck it up (maybe literally, maybe not) again and get caught.

 

Edited to add: Violating someone's trust over and over again makes a person paranoid AND will probably tank whatever modicum of self-esteem she has. How much forgiveness is she supposed to muster for this man? Seriously. At some point, it's just not worth it.

Even if they HAVE been hanging from the rafters, or doing whatever else Josh might have asked for, Anna doesn't strike me as being actress enough to be convincingly into it if that was not her thing (she's likely never seen "When Harry Met Sally" either)...

[toodles]

On FJ, they are calling him Joshley Madison.  I think that would be a great title too.

Edited August 21, 2015 by toodles

[Skittl1321]

 

But staying with a man who has already proven himself to be so untrustworthy? Taking blame for him repeatedly cheating on her? That I do hold against her. It's not just her happiness and well-being at stake. She's got four kids to worry about that they are growing up in an environment with a father who has shown that he can never be fully trusted. And by taking some of the blame on herself for his actions, she is all but ensuring more problems down the road.

How could she do anything else though? She has been programmed since near birth that these things are the way the world works. 

I hope her sister who broke free can reach out to her; but it takes A LOT to leave a cult.  Without incredible amounts of counseling Anna may never understand that this is NOT what most people believe. That she did NOTHING wrong. That this is NOT her fault.

 

Because every part of her life has taught her that it is her fault and she has no choice but to stay.

 

This is God's way of testing her. Her leaving would let Satan win. Satan wants to break up families. She can't give in to Satan. Satan has already tempted Josh, it is Anna's job as wife to keep them altogether.  Not being willing to forgive is the worst thing she could possibly do, in her view.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Skittl1321

[Defrauder]

Gawker is tracking all the edits.  Here' a redline of the original apology they posted to show all edits. 

This is too funny.  All of the public apology edits. A new day another apology version in the making perhaps?  We'll see.  

[luna70]

I REALLY wish I knew how far into this 'Gothard's (sp?) crap Anna's family is. Yes, Anna 'met' Josh at the 'homeschool' conference in Texas, but since her family lives in FL., they probably knew NOTHING about the Duggars other than what PR & lies were put out by both the 'family' and the 'church' . After all, those conferences were 5 days long, once a year, & most members do NOT use the internet like 'we do', nor read things 'not church approved'. So, Anna's family might have been 'blind' to every negative thing about Josh/family & thought 'Our lil Anna's got quite a catch!' (Sad that there are people who are that naïve .)

 

Sad, because, Anna is stuck w/a sick jerk who is still controlled by Daddy! Plus four (?) of his offspring. Even by some remote chance she left him, I bet almost everything is /was done under a companies name or Jim Bob's name-so Anna will get nothing. Josh will work for 'daddy's 'business' so salary will be under the table-so very little child support-OR-MICHELLE-in HER constant hunger/sickness to 'gather' babies, would/will try to get 'custody'.

 

How long was this 'affair'? Who in their right mind would want to have SEX with Josh? Or, since this person has a website, did she set him up from the beginning? (I have No Idea how much RAGS like the Star, Radar, etc. pay for 'exclusives' like-' I was Josh Duggar's Love Slave!'-Makes me nauseous just typing it!)

[Defrauder]

I don't want Anna and the children to be stuck with this jerk due to financial reasons.  He doesn't have a job right now anyway.  The Duggar empire is collapsing, she would be better off without their financial problems.  Now is her best chance to leave.  No not easy with 4 young children, but women leave destructive marriages and it would be better for her and the children to be away from him.  I hate to see him trying to buy her forgiveness with a trip to Aldi's.  She's the one who has been wronged - he should leave the house, wherever they are, and be in the streets - not her.  She needs a good lawyer - fast.

[toodles]

None of what Joshley did is Anna's fault.  He took marriage vows, just like she did.  Maybe she knew about the molestation and maybe she didn't.  We will never know.  She was a young girl when she got married, with no world experience.  I'm not talking about sexual experience.  She never had a chance to date so she never learned how to navigate relationship issues.   Neither did Joshley.   It seems to me that these marriages have a lot of strikes against them right from the start.  Not only do you go from 0 to 60 physical-wise, but it's 0-60 relationship-wise too.  And they are so YOUNG.  Add a baby right out of the gate and you have a receipe for disaster.  And this is the disaster.  

 

My wish for her is someone to help her with this.  Not a fundie, but a trained professional to help her make the right choice for herself and her children without all the faith guilt.  Sadly, I pretty sure this won't happen, but she deserves all the good help she can get.

[JoanArc]

 

Okay, WHY IS THERE A CREEPY ASS CLOWN IN THE BACKGROUND????

 

(Oh, right, that's about what Josh could pull on AM.  I wonder if that was his "guaranteed affair".)

 

(OT, I hate clowns.)

He's probably got a clown fetish. I'm sure the AM hack will eventually release all his naughty emails and pictures.

[DangerousMinds]

Can you imagine if this scandal hit first while the show was still on tv? I imagine the ratings surge would be huge! I feel bad for any wife finding out that her husband has been having an affair. What makes this really creepy is that this is an online affair for the purpose of sex. He paid for it! What makes it even worse is that the whole world knows about it, how humiliating. I feel bad for Anna. I hope that this isn't seen as a failing on Anna to keep her man sexually satisfied.  I wonder if Josh had a normal upbringing with school and male friends who hid in the shed reading Playboy, had a few girlfriends and wasn't forced into marriage if his life would have turned out to be normal. The same for the other children in the family. I can't imagine being raised as a Duggar or in that climate.    

Unfortunately, I don't think there are many young boys hiding out and reading Playboy anymore. Most have access to full-blown porn on the internet these days. Both boys and girls. This bothers me, but the Duggar's preventing their kids from any kind of exploration of sexuality bothers me more.

[Soup333]

I wonder if she'll even demand that he get checked for STDs. Since she just had a baby, I would think she'd have had screening (but maybe not. Did she have an actual doctor or a sistermom doula/lay midwife?). Josh could have been on Ashley Madison, OKCupid, Backpage, Craigslist, local street corners, etc. Who knows what he's been in contact with. If she's going to stay (which she is), he'd have to get checked. Not that he should be getting any from her at any point in the near future. Or Ever.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Soup333