Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[kathe5133]

These people are such a mess!  “For better for worse in sickness and in health”……..  Anna took those vows.  It would never even occur to Anna to leave.  We, well-educated independent folk, can say “it’s not your fault”, “you are a good person (but do we even know that?)”, “leave that scumbag, etc….”  But those are just words that are going up against a lifetime of training.  She doesn’t know how to leave.  She wouldn’t know what to do.  Her parents would never take her in.  They’ve raised her to be the way she is.  Ok, they raised her sisters too and they broke away, but from the religious oppression, not a cheating husband.  She’s got four kids and no viable means to support them.  She’s was snatched out of her life in an instant.  Whether she knew about the molestations pre or post marriage will most likely never be known.  But I think we will all agree that she married intending to remain faithful and stay committed.   The Duggar way is to “trust in the lord”.  I feel they choose that way because it is the path of least resistance.  They can stay in their rooms and “pray”.  Ok, prayer is fine, but you need to back it up with some action.  The old “god helps those that help themselves……”   Anna will pray too.  Hopefully, she is strong and perhaps having had a taste of the good life before her cheating, piece of shit, husband caused it to be snatched away, will cause her to realize that the lord is really not sitting up in heaven focusing on the needs of Anna Duggar and her four kids and that she needs to go to school, get a job, and get out on her own.  But, what are the odds that Smugger will knock her up at least one more time?

[Hana Chan]

http://www.people.com/article/jim-bob-duggar-michelle-duggar-stunned-josh-duggar-cheating-pornography-scandal

Well, they've started blaming the evil internet and other "outside influences". Saw that one coming. I bet the J'littles still living at the TTH will never see a computer again under that roof. Boob and Mechelle will look like prohibitionists hacking moonshine stills as they destroy every evil instrument of temptation (computer) in the house. And yet I guarantee they are also the types that subscribe to the "guns don't kill, people do!" mantra. And yet once again, Joshy is practically given a free pass from any personal responsibility.

 

99% of the reason that Josh is as screwed up as he is can precisely be traced directly to his parent's bizarre view of sex. Their children get absolutely no education about sex beyond that it's something sinful that should only happen within the confines of marriage, and even then, only for the purpose of procreation. They don't get to date or explore their own sexuality in a healthy normal manner. Forget about doing anything sexually with another person until they say "I do" (and have no idea of they're really going to be compatible with their partner).

 

But then they see their parents acting in a very hyper-sexual manner with one another. It's perfectly fine for parents to be physically affectionate with one another, but JimBoob and Me!chelle turned their sexual lives into a spectator sport for the family. So is it any surprise that in at least one of their children that natural desires come out in a very warped way?

 

This is not to say that boys raised in perfectly normal families don't turn out screwed up at times. Plenty of molesters and cheaters got raised in normal families. But it's impossible to argue that seeing his father hump his mother in front of him while he wasn't ever allowed to even look at a picture of a naked woman is a big part of why he seems to have absolutely no control over his sexual impulses now.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Hana Chan

[NextIteration]

Wasn't he reprimanded for watching porn at work when he was 16?  What is all this bullshit shock about.

 

If it quacks and walks like a duck, it's a god damned DUCK!

 

He's an addict, can't help himself and never could.

 

And the guilt and shame for all of this becoming public will drive him back to all the bad behavior, if he doesn't receive extensive secular therapy.  He admitted he's a porn addict.

Edited August 21, 2015 by NextIteration

[Fuzzysox]

Josh was/is a horny manchild. He should have been allowed to bone as many woman as he wanted when he was of age. They should have let him sow his wild oats because we are seeing now the aftermath of how keeping his sexual desires at bay have caused.

 

Getting him married off created more problems, a poor naive girl stuck in a bad situation with 4 children. Just truly sad!

[kathe5133]

Don't understand the "addict" part.  Truly don't.  He has a disease where a part of his brain makes him call woman to try to have sex with them?  There is a part of his brain that forces him to cheat on his wife?  Did he "catch" this disease or did it develop?  I believe those that attribute their bad behavior to an "addiction" are simply creating a scape goat.  Josh Duggar is a lying, cheating, manwhore who was raised by two simpletons.  Josh's only "addiction" is pleasing Josh.  Why and what made him that way, I'm not qualified to even hazard a guess, and it's not for these forums anyway.  But he needs help.  Help in learning to be a normal man.  And he may be too damaged to ever live a normal life. 

[Hana Chan]

I see these two statements as completely contradictory. If the proposition that it's the woman's fault that a man cheats is "bullshit," then it's not her fault, period. Saying that Josh strayed because Anna is "the least sexually adventurous woman on the planet" *is* blaming her and stems from the same patriarchal, sexist mindset the Duggars are being (deservedly) criticized for.

 

My issue with Anna isn't her probable lack of interest in sex beyond making babies because she is sadly a product of her upbringing. It's the bullshit that she's responsible in any way for Josh straying. There is a very sick mindset in this particular vein of fundamentalist Christianity that a woman assumes the majority of blame for a man's sexual faults. If he cheats, then it's because she's not satisfying him at home. It takes the blame off Josh, that he cannot be held totally responsible for his behavior.

 

But staying with a man who has already proven himself to be so untrustworthy? Taking blame for him repeatedly cheating on her? That I do hold against her. It's not just her happiness and well-being at stake. She's got four kids to worry about that they are growing up in an environment with a father who has shown that he can never be fully trusted. And by taking some of the blame on herself for his actions, she is all but ensuring more problems down the road. It's one thing that Josh finds himself unfulfilled sexually with his wife, but it's entirely another to go behind her back and have affairs. Maybe not figuring out that he's not entirely happy with things is a shared responsibility (though she can't be a mindreader if he's not telling her), but the cheating? That's all on Josh. Anna's responsibility needs to be on taking care of herself and her children, because it's clear that Josh will never be the partner that she needs. And she's so far failing in that area. Again, in large part due to her upbringing but there comes a time when you have to shake off the cobwebs and deal with reality. Otherwise you'd just better be prepared to have the word "doormat" tattooed on your forehead.

[Lemur]

*snort*

This needs to be this topic's subtitle.

Okay, WHY IS THERE A CREEPY ASS CLOWN IN THE BACKGROUND????

 

(Oh, right, that's about what Josh could pull on AM.  I wonder if that was his "guaranteed affair".)

 

(OT, I hate clowns.)

Edited August 21, 2015 by Lemur

[NextIteration]

Personally, I'm not letting Josh off the hook for anything.  Everyone has personal choice, and one of them is admitting there is a problem that needs a solution, that's the responsible first step.

[SongbirdHollow]

Josh has displayed classic signs of addiction - pursuing his fix to the detriment of his family, his professional life and his well being.

 

Masturbating to porn a couple times a week isn't it, cheating on your wife isn't it, but a compulsion to continue down multiple avenues with no ability to stop?  That's it.

 

Agree. My take is that Josh would have done all of this (molestation and adultery) regardless of whether he was brought up Gothard. Presumably, other young men in the religion were able to wait for marriage and are satisfied (Chad Paine comes to mind.) But I think Gothard's cult rules prevented him from getting the real treatment that could have prevented the disaster it has become.

[MuuMuuChainsmoker]

Okay, WHY IS THERE A CREEPY ASS CLOWN IN THE BACKGROUND????)

Hee! I admit, I was too busy looking at the creepy ass clown in the foreground to notice that. Why indeed?

[Julia]

It's funny. If you were to ask me, I wouldn't have said the problem with the Duggars' approach to sexuality was that they hid it from their kids. I would have said that the problem with the Duggars' approach to sexuality is that their father has defined his wife, and by extension his daughters and all women, as something with the ultimate goal in God's plan of providing sex on demand.

I don't really have the words for the idea that a woman raising four small children, including a newborn, who is responsible for all the family and home maintenance, is at fault for not being creative or enthusiastic enough about the sex she's not allowed to say no to. That the husband her notional coldness caused to fall from grace has a long, documented history of exactly this form of misbehavior—long before she ever met him—is lagniappe. For which I also don't really have the words.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Julia

[Soup333]

I feel sorry for Anna because I believe she will "absorb blame" for this and stay with Josh and do everything in her power to make her marriage work. Even if that everything includes acts that she doesn't truly feel comfortable doing. And even then, that may not be enough for Josh. But for all I know, Josh has expressed his desire to be more adventurous and they've been doing everything but hanging from the rafters for years now and THAT still wasn't enough.

 

I think no matter what, if she is pressured to stay - by her upbringing, her in-laws, her guilt, whatever - she'll end up miserable in a few years when she discovers that he's done it again. And again. Because I don't believe he will ever stop. I think he'll try, yes. But eventually, his true nature will surface and he'll be trying to get some side action and fuck it up (maybe literally, maybe not) again and get caught.

 

Edited to add: Violating someone's trust over and over again makes a person paranoid AND will probably tank whatever modicum of self-esteem she has. How much forgiveness is she supposed to muster for this man? Seriously. At some point, it's just not worth it.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Soup333

[Jynnan tonnix]

I feel sorry for Anna because I believe she will "absorb blame" for this and stay with Josh and do everything in her power to make her marriage work. Even if that everything includes acts that she doesn't truly feel comfortable doing. And even then, that may not be enough for Josh. But for all I know, Josh has expressed his desire to be more adventurous and they've been doing everything but hanging from the rafters for years now and THAT still wasn't enough.

 

I think no matter what, if she is pressured to stay - by her upbringing, her in-laws, her guilt, whatever - she'll end up miserable in a few years when she discovers that he's done it again. And again. Because I don't believe he will ever stop. I think he'll try, yes. But eventually, his true nature will surface and he'll be trying to get some side action and fuck it up (maybe literally, maybe not) again and get caught.

 

Edited to add: Violating someone's trust over and over again makes a person paranoid AND will probably tank whatever modicum of self-esteem she has. How much forgiveness is she supposed to muster for this man? Seriously. At some point, it's just not worth it.

Even if they HAVE been hanging from the rafters, or doing whatever else Josh might have asked for, Anna doesn't strike me as being actress enough to be convincingly into it if that was not her thing (she's likely never seen "When Harry Met Sally" either)...

[toodles]

On FJ, they are calling him Joshley Madison.  I think that would be a great title too.

Edited August 21, 2015 by toodles

[Skittl1321]

 

But staying with a man who has already proven himself to be so untrustworthy? Taking blame for him repeatedly cheating on her? That I do hold against her. It's not just her happiness and well-being at stake. She's got four kids to worry about that they are growing up in an environment with a father who has shown that he can never be fully trusted. And by taking some of the blame on herself for his actions, she is all but ensuring more problems down the road.

How could she do anything else though? She has been programmed since near birth that these things are the way the world works. 

I hope her sister who broke free can reach out to her; but it takes A LOT to leave a cult.  Without incredible amounts of counseling Anna may never understand that this is NOT what most people believe. That she did NOTHING wrong. That this is NOT her fault.

 

Because every part of her life has taught her that it is her fault and she has no choice but to stay.

 

This is God's way of testing her. Her leaving would let Satan win. Satan wants to break up families. She can't give in to Satan. Satan has already tempted Josh, it is Anna's job as wife to keep them altogether.  Not being willing to forgive is the worst thing she could possibly do, in her view.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Skittl1321

[Defrauder]

Gawker is tracking all the edits.  Here' a redline of the original apology they posted to show all edits. 

This is too funny.  All of the public apology edits. A new day another apology version in the making perhaps?  We'll see.  

[luna70]

I REALLY wish I knew how far into this 'Gothard's (sp?) crap Anna's family is. Yes, Anna 'met' Josh at the 'homeschool' conference in Texas, but since her family lives in FL., they probably knew NOTHING about the Duggars other than what PR & lies were put out by both the 'family' and the 'church' . After all, those conferences were 5 days long, once a year, & most members do NOT use the internet like 'we do', nor read things 'not church approved'. So, Anna's family might have been 'blind' to every negative thing about Josh/family & thought 'Our lil Anna's got quite a catch!' (Sad that there are people who are that naïve .)

 

Sad, because, Anna is stuck w/a sick jerk who is still controlled by Daddy! Plus four (?) of his offspring. Even by some remote chance she left him, I bet almost everything is /was done under a companies name or Jim Bob's name-so Anna will get nothing. Josh will work for 'daddy's 'business' so salary will be under the table-so very little child support-OR-MICHELLE-in HER constant hunger/sickness to 'gather' babies, would/will try to get 'custody'.

 

How long was this 'affair'? Who in their right mind would want to have SEX with Josh? Or, since this person has a website, did she set him up from the beginning? (I have No Idea how much RAGS like the Star, Radar, etc. pay for 'exclusives' like-' I was Josh Duggar's Love Slave!'-Makes me nauseous just typing it!)

[Defrauder]

I don't want Anna and the children to be stuck with this jerk due to financial reasons.  He doesn't have a job right now anyway.  The Duggar empire is collapsing, she would be better off without their financial problems.  Now is her best chance to leave.  No not easy with 4 young children, but women leave destructive marriages and it would be better for her and the children to be away from him.  I hate to see him trying to buy her forgiveness with a trip to Aldi's.  She's the one who has been wronged - he should leave the house, wherever they are, and be in the streets - not her.  She needs a good lawyer - fast.

[toodles]

None of what Joshley did is Anna's fault.  He took marriage vows, just like she did.  Maybe she knew about the molestation and maybe she didn't.  We will never know.  She was a young girl when she got married, with no world experience.  I'm not talking about sexual experience.  She never had a chance to date so she never learned how to navigate relationship issues.   Neither did Joshley.   It seems to me that these marriages have a lot of strikes against them right from the start.  Not only do you go from 0 to 60 physical-wise, but it's 0-60 relationship-wise too.  And they are so YOUNG.  Add a baby right out of the gate and you have a receipe for disaster.  And this is the disaster.  

 

My wish for her is someone to help her with this.  Not a fundie, but a trained professional to help her make the right choice for herself and her children without all the faith guilt.  Sadly, I pretty sure this won't happen, but she deserves all the good help she can get.

[JoanArc]

 

Okay, WHY IS THERE A CREEPY ASS CLOWN IN THE BACKGROUND????

 

(Oh, right, that's about what Josh could pull on AM.  I wonder if that was his "guaranteed affair".)

 

(OT, I hate clowns.)

He's probably got a clown fetish. I'm sure the AM hack will eventually release all his naughty emails and pictures.

[DangerousMinds]

Can you imagine if this scandal hit first while the show was still on tv? I imagine the ratings surge would be huge! I feel bad for any wife finding out that her husband has been having an affair. What makes this really creepy is that this is an online affair for the purpose of sex. He paid for it! What makes it even worse is that the whole world knows about it, how humiliating. I feel bad for Anna. I hope that this isn't seen as a failing on Anna to keep her man sexually satisfied.  I wonder if Josh had a normal upbringing with school and male friends who hid in the shed reading Playboy, had a few girlfriends and wasn't forced into marriage if his life would have turned out to be normal. The same for the other children in the family. I can't imagine being raised as a Duggar or in that climate.    

Unfortunately, I don't think there are many young boys hiding out and reading Playboy anymore. Most have access to full-blown porn on the internet these days. Both boys and girls. This bothers me, but the Duggar's preventing their kids from any kind of exploration of sexuality bothers me more.

[Soup333]

I wonder if she'll even demand that he get checked for STDs. Since she just had a baby, I would think she'd have had screening (but maybe not. Did she have an actual doctor or a sistermom doula/lay midwife?). Josh could have been on Ashley Madison, OKCupid, Backpage, Craigslist, local street corners, etc. Who knows what he's been in contact with. If she's going to stay (which she is), he'd have to get checked. Not that he should be getting any from her at any point in the near future. Or Ever.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Soup333

[Oldernowiser]

I wonder if she'll even demand that he get checked for STDs. Since she just had a baby, I would think she'd have had screening (but maybe not. Did she have an actual doctor or a sistermom doula/lay midwife?). Josh could have been on Ashley Madison, OKCupid, Backpage, Craigslist, local street corners, etc. Who knows what he's been in contact with. If she's going to stay (which she is), he'd have to get checked. Not that he should be getting any from her at any point in the near future. Or Ever.

If only. I'm starting the pool on redemption baby #5 ("We've never been happier or more in love"). I'm taking 90 days.

[galax-arena]

This part of the People article stood out to me:

 

"Don't forget that the main aspect he focused on in his attempt to fix things after the molestation scandal was the fact that he was young when that happened and that he had since rebuilt himself, turned to a righteous path and was a good, upstanding, decent man who had learned from his mistakes."

 

"The whole idea was that people should forgive what he did when he was a teenager because he was such a great guy now," continues the source. "So for this to come to light …. He's ruined. It will be such a steep and practically impossible climb to come back from this."

This goes with what some of us were saying when others were asking if it was really necessary to drag more of Josh's misdeeds to light after he had already been hit by the molestation scandal. The Duggars' defense then hinged upon how the molestation occurred before Josh was a True Christian, and that present-day Josh was a good God-fearing traditional-family-values man. This latest scandal shows what a crock that was (although, just to reiterate, having a consensual adult affair is of course worlds apart from molesting children).

Edited August 21, 2015 by galax-arena

[Satchels of gold]

I don't want to look a gift horse in the mouth but I wish this scandal had involved another Duggar, only because people will see him as "the bad seed" and not see that the whole belief system is sick. In therapy we would call him "the identified patient" he displays the dysfunction of the entire family, but they are all sick. And wow do they hate/fear women. The only way to ensure a woman never leaves you is to keep her uneducated and pregnant. She's not a wife she is a hostage. I seem to be in the minority but I think the molestation was a far bigger deal then this. Espically the molestation of a five year old child, that is some serious sexually acting out. I think Josh has some serious problems (I know we aren't allowed to diagnos) conforming to societal standards/ norms. When you dig deeper it's about more than sex.

[floridamom]

So, Anna has been taught to trust in the Lord...well, maybe the Lord has been speaking directly to Anna and she's not been listening...showing her exactly who Josh really is and He's telling this stupid, naïve, girl of a woman TO GO!!! How many direct signs does God have to send someone, (Anna) to get His advice across? Open your eyes and ears, girl, God's talking to you.  Note: I believe in a Supreme Being and that communication and guidance are a very real thing myself.

I also hope that Anna's non-fundy siblings are speaking to her and advising her to think of herself and her children and drop this guy like a hot potato; hopefully Jim Bob and Josh hadn't cooked up an income "bypass" from Anna all this time....I hope she hires herself a shark of a lawyer to defend her and the kids. She should walk away with financial security for the rest of her life...with legal responsibility-backup from POPS.

Where is Anna's father? One would think that even in their restrictive religious cult, that one's parents would come to the aid of their children and defend her! They were the ones who chose to raise their kids in a sheltered, naïve, society that ill-equips their daughters to be real women in this world...religion or not, one must be able to live in this world while we are here successfully....the Kellers should also take responsibility for this one....way to go, daddy Keller...I see just how good you looked out for Anna when choosing Joshy for her...Better take a good look at David and Pris's situation while you're at it.

[xander874]

My fear is that Josh will play up the sex addict part and quietly roll the molestation thing into it, so when he goes on his apology tour, everything bad he did will be considered part of the same problem (which I guess they are somewhat, but still different enough). And when he emerges a changed man in a year or so, all will be forgiven.

[wirebitersm]

Is there a way to get a letter directly to Anna and Josh? The Flying Spaghetti Monster has moved me to reach out to this young couple.

[Cherrio]

He's probably got a clown fetish. I'm sure the AM hack will eventually release all his naughty emails and pictures.

Oh please no, no ,no,no.   I don't think I would recover from that.

 

     Did he have a tater tot fetish?    Put frozen ones where the sun don't shine and they come back as hash browns?      

[CousinAmy]

I REALLY wish I knew how far into this 'Gothard's (sp?) crap Anna's family is. Yes, Anna 'met' Josh at the 'homeschool' conference in Texas, but since her family lives in FL., they probably knew NOTHING about the Duggars other than what PR & lies were put out by both the 'family' and the 'church' . After all, those conferences were 5 days long, once a year, & most members do NOT use the internet like 'we do', nor read things 'not church approved'. So, Anna's family might have been 'blind' to every negative thing about Josh/family & thought 'Our lil Anna's got quite a catch!' (Sad that there are people who are that naïve .)

Sad, because, Anna is stuck w/a sick jerk who is still controlled by Daddy! Plus four (?) of his offspring. Even by some remote chance she left him, I bet almost everything is /was done under a companies name or Jim Bob's name-so Anna will get nothing. Josh will work for 'daddy's 'business' so salary will be under the table-so very little child support-OR-MICHELLE-in HER constant hunger/sickness to 'gather' babies, would/will try to get 'custody'.

How long was this 'affair'? Who in their right mind would want to have SEX with Josh? Or, since this person has a website, did she set him up from the beginning? (I have No Idea how much RAGS like the Star, Radar, etc. pay for 'exclusives' like-' I was Josh Duggar's Love Slave!'-Makes me nauseous just typing it!)

Let me just say, I'm not THAT Cousin Amy. I chose this moniker because I have a cousin named Amy.

Ashley Madison is basically a pimping service, matching foolish men with women who are looking for no-strings affairs. Some of the women are in it for the cash, gifts, or luxury travel that they could not otherwise afford. They are not naive young girls; they know how to prevent pregnancy and STDs. One may come forward if she gets paid to give an interview.

I hope TLC gets the rights to that interview.

Edited August 21, 2015 by CousinAmy

[Oldernowiser]

Like raging narcissism? Because it seems to me that is definitely a family trait.

[Julia]

I seem to be in the minority but I think the molestation was a far bigger deal then this. Especially the molestation of a five year old child, that is some serious sexually acting out. I think Josh has some serious problems (I know we aren't allowed to diagnose) conforming to societal standards/ norms. When you dig deeper it's about more than sex.

If you are, I'm in the minority too, because I nodded at all of that. Just thinking about being both the golden boy and the bad seed at the same time, and in such a small pond...

[Jenniferbug]

I think if Anna wants to leave, she can. She has 3 siblings who have broken away, and if Suz can figure out how to live independently and get a job as a single mother, there's no reason Anna can't. If anything, she can benefit from Suz's knowledge and experience.

I think Anna would be well suited to work at a daycare, especially a faith based one. It doesn't pay much, but it would give her an income and likely insurance. Many in my area offer free or reduced tuition for staff members children, to compensate for it not being a high paying job. She seems to be very good with children.

She could also seek low income/income based housing. Again, in my area, there are some pretty nice apartments and townhouses designated this way- and they are in decent neighborhoods too.

It would be tough, but she could do it. She has siblings who would support her decision (and I'm not so sure her parents wouldn't help her out too). The real issue is whether she WANTS to leave. My money is on her staying, sadly.

[Anne Elk]

I think Josh has a major problem with impulse control. Thus the overeating, the cheating, the molestation, the porn, etc. 

 

It's not an excuse, because Josh is a grownup and he deserves all the blame. But I do think if he had grown up in a family where the kids were gradually allowed to take some responsibility for their lives and their choices, rather than having everything controlled by Daddy, he might have learned how to handle his impulse problems before dragging everyone else in his entire family into all this. Maybe not, though. 

 

I agree that Josh is not cut out for the Gothard fundie lifestyle. The problem is, according to the worldview his parents have taught him, that is the ONLY God-approved way to live. He doesn't have any choice in the matter. At least JimBob and Michelle got to experience the world and chose to live this way. None of their kids were given any choice at all, and that's my real objection to their lifestyle.

 

I can't help but feel sorry for Anna. Thanks to one bad decision she made as a young woman, she's now been utterly humiliated in front of the entire world. And this is her life. She can look forward to probably 50 more years of Josh failing and her guilting herself over it. It's sadder than sad.

[SongbirdHollow]

I think Josh has a major problem with impulse control. Thus the overeating, the cheating, the molestation, the porn, etc. 

 

I was thinking about the definitions of this...in my mind, acting impulsively means without thought. Acting compulsively means thinking about it and doing it anyway regardless of consequences. To me, this is compulsive. JMHO.

[Churchhoney]

When you dig deeper it's about more than sex.

 

Right on the money in your post, I think. And about the above -- Well, anybody who says that there's a circumstance in which somebody is obliged to have sex with them -- that's pretty clearly somebody with massive power and control issues, right there, seems to me. Josh has huge issues living with other humans on the earth, really. Can't stand the fact that anybody else has autonomy and doesn't do everything he says. ....

 

And now he's destined to be a total flunkie for the rest of his days. How sad. Not.

 

Not to absolve JB and M of their horrible part in this. I do feel sorry for Josh the kid. He surely didn't get anything that he needed from his parents. But he's a grownup now, and I think it's pretty clear that he's by nature and choice, as well as by nurture, a person who doesn't give a crap about anyone but himself.

[IndianPaintbrush]

I think Josh has a major problem with impulse control. Thus the overeating, the cheating, the molestation, the porn, etc. 

 

It's not an excuse, because Josh is a grownup and he deserves all the blame. But I do think if he had grown up in a family where the kids were gradually allowed to take some responsibility for their lives and their choices, rather than having everything controlled by Daddy, he might have learned how to handle his impulse problems before dragging everyone else in his entire family into all this. Maybe not, though. 

 

I agree that Josh is not cut out for the Gothard fundie lifestyle. The problem is, according to the worldview his parents have taught him, that is the ONLY God-approved way to live. He doesn't have any choice in the matter. At least JimBob and Michelle got to experience the world and chose to live this way. None of their kids were given any choice at all, and that's my real objection to their lifestyle.

I agree with this.  I think Josh's status as the eldest son probably came with undue pressure to be a godly example to his younger siblings, but it also gave him a strong sense of entitlement.  The fact that he got away with molesting his sisters with little more than a slap on the wrist, combined with Anna's general naivete, made him think he could get away with living a double life.  

 

At any rate, I think Jim Bob and Michelle share some of the responsibility for this whole mess.

[lottiedottie]

I wonder if Anna's sisters-on-the-outside are trying to convince her that this stuff is not her fault and that she doesn't have to stay with him. Her sisters have to believe that this is fucked up like the rest of us do, right?

[riverblue22]

Anna will not leave him," the source claimed. "As with her in-laws, she is turning more to her faith than ever. She and Josh are probably praying around the clock right now, I would assume."

 

 

WHATEVER...  

 

It's harder for Anna to leave this cult than if she were FLDS--she is surrounded and trapped.

I'm just glad that the TLC money is gone.  Let Jim Bob keep up this insanity with the profits from his towing company and cell tower.

You would hope her parents would reach out to her, but they have allowed daughter Esther to be ruined by her crackpot husband so what good will they do Anna?

Edited August 21, 2015 by riverblue22

[Almost 3000]

Let me be clear that I am not psychoanalyzing Josh.

In my experience as a therapist when people come to me for the first time and report that they're self-diagnosed "sex addicts", I look for Bipolar I or II.

 

I posted elsewhere that Josh use to (seemly) obsessively post pix of the food he was eating. It was odd.

[HumblePi]

Josh was/is a horny manchild. He should have been allowed to bone as many woman as he wanted when he was of age. They should have let him sow his wild oats because we are seeing now the aftermath of how keeping his sexual desires at bay have caused.

 

Getting him married off created more problems, a poor naive girl stuck in a bad situation with 4 children. Just truly sad!

I have to disagree with what you're saying. Every teenage boy is horny. Their sex drives are fueled by a flooding of testosterone into their bloodstream. Nearly anything turns a hormonal teenage boy on. They will have involuntary nocturnal emissions (wet dreams), they may have an attraction to the same sex, nearly anything can cause an erection even at the worse times. They all have fantasies, they all masturbate and usually they feel guilty about the intensity of their sexual drive. But if every hormonal teenage boy was allowed to 'bone as many women' as he wanted to, the statistics for rape and unwanted pregnancies would go soar through the roof. Allowing a teenage boy free reign to sow his wild oats isn't a solution to the behaviors that Josh Duggar exhibited when he was 14 and to his addiction to porn today.

 

Teenagers need to have an honest dialog either with their parents, or if that's not comfortable for them, with their friends or teachers or anyone they can be honest with. They need to know that an intense sex drive is NORMAL and how to deal with it until their hormonal floods eventually level off somewhere in their later teens and they begin to have control over them. Parents can be of greater support to their teen son when they have a better understanding of what is happening to his body. I'd bet my eye-teeth that Michelle and Jim Bob never talked honestly with Josh or any of the other boys about sexuality and nature. Their conversations regarding sex have been 'don't think of it, don't do it, and you can't have it until you're married'.

[DropTheSoap]

I hadn't watched the show in a while, but it seemed that Anna's father/family enjoyed the "fame" of being Duggars-once-removed. Even with all the crap, I think they remain hot in gunfire circles. I doubt the family would support her leaving. So, would she be someone who could take the kids without family support? Doubtful. She's most likely stuck in place.

I have no doubt the situation stems from the Duggar warped worldview where sex is everything yet also evil and sinful, in addition to whatever inherent issues Josh brought to the table regarding his issues with his own sexual impulses.

[Julia]

I posted elsewhere that Josh use to (seemly) obsessively post pix of the food he was eating. It was odd.

One of the things I've noticed about Josh (and to some extent Jessa) is that he seems really badly to want to be one of the cool kids, but given his upbringing he's not clear what the signifiers are. So, the cool kids are tweeting their work-of-art fine dining meals or their homemade foodie creations, and Josh is tweeting his Chick fil A sandwich. It's all food, right?

[Jynnan tonnix]

Everybody talks about Anna leaving Josh, but is there any chance that Josh would actually choose to leave Anna...? I know it's probably not something he could do if he ever wants to parlay all of this into some sort of "reformed sinner" ministry tour, and I don't know what else he could do for a living, but it's conceivable that he could decide to just cut his losses and distance himself from the entire mess, coincidentally leaving himself free to indulge in whatever. I'm not sure it's something that would really prove viable for him, but I'm sure it might be tempting sometimes. And obviously he does have a tendency to give in to temptation.

 

Where would that leave Anna? If she was the one who was left, wouldn't her family have to support her more than they might have if she was the one who walked away?

[Aja]

One of the things I've noticed about Josh (and to some extent Jessa) is that he seems really badly to want to be one of the cool kids, but given his upbringing he's not clear what the signifiers are. So, the cool kids are tweeting their work-of-art fine dining meals or their homemade foodie creations, and Josh is tweeting his Chick fil A sandwich. It's all food, right?

Julia, you beat me to it. The "am I doing this right?" vibe is strong with the Duggars and all of their pathetic attempts to keep their brand alive through social media. 

[Marigold]

I wonder what is really going on in that house. 

 

Is Josh stuffing his face with Oreos while Jim Bob yells?

Is Josh hiding in the bathroom?

Is Anna screaming at Josh or just sobbing?

Is Michelle using the baby voice?

Is Bin taking notes for future instagram sermons?

Is Anna on the phone with her parents?

Are they all in the TTH hiding behind the gates?

 

Wonder if Jim Bob/Michelle are arguing with Anna's parents? Maybe they want her to come back to Florida for a while. They might realize Josh is a sick individual even if his mommy protects him. I personally think Jim Bob hates Josh at this point. 

[truthtalk2014]

I know everyone keeps saying that Anna should leave Josh.  I'm quite the opposite.  I think Josh should leave Anna.  He's obviously not happy with himself and the life he has created.  I agree with all that said he didn't get to sow his wild oats like most guys.  He obviously wants something different and he should not make Anna and the kids suffer because he didn't figure this crap out BEFORE he got married and had four kids.  

 

It won't get better.  Men that cheat typically will do it again. I learned that valuable lesson with my first husband.  Took him back the first time and later, he did it again.  I finally got the balls to kick his to the curb.  Best decision of my life.  I just don't think Anna ever will. 

 

I don't really care how much he watches porn.  That's not a biggie.  He's an unfaithful dough head and most likely will be one for his entire life.  I know we are all focusing on the AM site and OK Cupid but I have a feeling Josh hired an escort or two or even prostitute off the street when he wasn't getting any action online.  No telling what will come out next.  

[Marigold]

I think Josh will be heading off to some Christian rehab center very shortly. So he will leave. For a while. 

[CofCinci]

One of the things I've noticed about Josh (and to some extent Jessa) is that he seems really badly to want to be one of the cool kids, but given his upbringing he's not clear what the signifiers are. So, the cool kids are tweeting their work-of-art fine dining meals or their homemade foodie creations, and Josh is tweeting his Chick fil A sandwich. It's all food, right?

When they post ChickFilA pictures, it's their way of saying "Fuck you gay people, you don't deserve rights and I will support those who actively discriminate against you." It has nothing to do with their love of chicken biscuits.

[HumblePi]

I wonder if Anna's sisters-on-the-outside are trying to convince her that this stuff is not her fault and that she doesn't have to stay with him. Her sisters have to believe that this is fucked up like the rest of us do, right?

Anna Duggar is in a very unfortunate situation because she stood by Josh during the sexual molestation debacle and even stated that she was fully aware of his molestation before they got married. Now she's being the good little Fundy wife and taking some of the blame for Josh's sexual addiction onto herself, where it absolutely doesn't belong. Some will say "It serves her right if she knew in advance". People can't grasp how innocent and trusting a person like Anna really is. It's not even part of our reality that people like Anna and her family exists. She grew up in an alternate universe as far as pop culture, sexuality and the realities of life are concerned. She, like Josh, was home-schooled and wasn't integrated with other children. Anna was also raised in a Fundamentalist Christian home. Both Anna and Josh will say that their parents were open and listened to them and prayed with them ( to achieve 'peace in their heart' ) when faced with temptations. (nuh-uh that's not parental sexual education and guidance)

 

In a few short years, Anna has been the 'good wife' and gave Josh the "blessings of God by having many children". Now, with 4 little ones to be a mother to, Anna has two choices. Leave Josh and go back home and live with her parents and take the kids away from their father, or stay with Josh for the sake of the children and forever be an unhappy and distrusting woman. The two choices she has aren't good ones no matter what she does.