Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Dawn16]

It does look like the CPS story is fake. Sorry for getting everyone's hopes up.

It got my hopes up for a minute, too, when I saw it shared on Facebook. 

[HeyNow]

Awww, too bad it's bogus.  Sorry for passing on something not legit.  I deleted the link in my last post. 

I posted the same thing in Duggars in the Media, and in Jim Bob and Michelle, too.   I'll delete my links as well.  So sad it's not true!

[JoanArc]

I will admit to enjoying the fantasy that CPS was involved. I think that would help everyone. Maybe they are, and we just can't know. I'd hope that all the media attention makes SOMEONE in authority ask Jim Bob and Michelle the hard questions. 10 years of regurgitated, scripted answers is enough already.

[CofCinci]

I'm sure they've been reported over the weekend, right?  So there is probably a new investigation?  Or bystander apathy makes me assume that suspicions have been reported but they actually haven't?

[Sew Sumi]

Looks like Josh is back in DC -- there was a shot of him on Extra on NBC carrying Michael through National Airport. Didn't say anything besides "no comment" (I don't think -- I didn't hear anything), though he was smirking/didn't look particularly upset or nervous or anything.

That was from last Wednesday (pictures were all over the internet), after the first article with allegations, but before they got hold of the actual report and posted it the next day. At that time, I guess Josh still may have thought he could skate. 

[leighdear]

That site has a report that the "Hero Mom" from Maryland that smacked her kid on TV is being investigated too, but in Maryland.  But the protection people have the same last name Lancaster. 

 

Both sites are seriously bogus.

Edited May 27, 2015 by leighdear

[HumblePi]

That site has a report that the "Hero Mom" from Maryland that smacked her kid on TV is being investigated too, but in Maryland.  But the protection people have the same last name Lancaster. 

 

Both sites are seriously bogus.

This is what happens, vultures sweep in to sensationalize and inflame people. It's a disgusting way to do business and I'll send a complaint to the FCC about that website.

[Ivy26]

Whether or not the CPS thing is bogus, you don't announce it before you do it!  Lord, that gives Jim Boob and Bitchelle time to groom the kids and their answers. 

[Wellfleet]

I'm probably the only person in North America who doesn't have a facebook account, so I can't see the message. May I ask you to paraphrase what it says, please - if that is allowed here, that is.

 

Hello!  I'm the other person in North America who's never had - and never will have - a Facebook account. I guess we're a club now. Let's get jackets made! :>)

[merylinkid]

Thank you to the Mods for keeping this thread open despite what must be a very difficult balancing act.    For one thing, it has allowed people to post their own stories.

 

To those who posted their own stories with abuse -- thank you for being brave enough to share.   If you are having a hard time right now, please seek help.   Call your local crisis line.   Someone will believe you.   WE BELIEVE YOU.   

 

This is why I wish the adults had their own attorneys/advisers.   We don't know what they need right now.   Do they want to speak publicly?   Do they want to go hide?  Do some want to talk and others want to hide?  What?   But unless they have someone who is looking out for each of their interests and each of their interests only, they will not get even an attempt at what they want.   As long as Daddy is in charge of the PR crisis management and the lawyers, we will get what Daddy wants.   Which is the same thing that happened all those years ago.   Everything covered up so Mommy and Daddy can get their tv show and be famous.   I am quite sure no one asked all those 19 kids if they wanted to be tv or not.   And no one is asking even those over 18 what they want now.

[HeyNow]

Hello!  I'm the other person in North America who's never had - and never will have - a Facebook account. I guess we're a club now. Let's get jackets made! :>)

Can I be treasurer?

[Mrsjumbo]

I will be shocked if the girls don't come out with some group interview absolving their brother. Shocked.

Because if they don't, the gravy train jumps the tracks for good and JB isn't going to let that happen.

Besides, the family has been putting on an act for years, why would they believe it wouldn't work now?

The only way this might not happen is if there's something more lurking out there and inviting more scrutiny would be too dangerous.

I haven't caufht up reading yet but had to comment that at least on the Today show, they are not naming his sisters as the victims. They are just saying "underage girls". We saw the police report with JB & M listed as parents so we know. But with the police record being destroyed, do the Duggars feel we don't know it was his sisters & will never admit that?

[hathorlive]

 

Hello!  I'm the other person in North America who's never had - and never will have - a Facebook account. I guess we're a club now. Let's get jackets made! :>)

 

I'm confused.  How do you make passive aggressive swipes at your siblings without Facebook?  I don't know how my sister and I would communicate unless we were making fun of each other via our Facebook status.

 

Congrats on being free from updating the world with every trivial thought you have.

[JenCarroll]

Sadly,this is a fake news site. If the Arkansas Division of Child and Family Services did investigate, it would likely not be in the news, unless someone leaked the info.

The real Wahington Post is washingtonpost.com. Washingtonpost.com.co is a fake. (.com.co is usually a tip-off.)

Nationalreport.net is a spoof site.

Edited May 27, 2015 by JenCarroll

[Iguessnot]

Is that really what they were doing? Or was it a weird documentary that happened every year and then got to be a TV show because the America liked to watch them? I don't really recall feeling like I was being told my life was wrong watching their show, but that is just me.

 

Very true. The specials gave a little nuggets of insight into the family. I remember being shocked when I realized it was going to be a weekly series, because insight is gone and now you are just a performer. On the TWOP forum, people were all besides themselves trying to contact producers and "suggest" scenarios. What started as a brood in a house with one bathroom soon became a mega mansion tribe of international jetsetters with Macbooks and cameras up the wahoo of every laboring mom. 

 

Their modesty didn't bother me, but the Little House on the Prairie and Ken doll styling bugged me to no end. Big families are great, but intentionally pumping them out beyond your financial, mental and emotional capability is stupid. Purposely under-educating your kids in this society? More for me and mine I guess. 

[ButterQueen]

Can someone explain the Oprah thing to me? So, she did interview them, filmed the show, but cancelled it?

I sincerely hope CPS, despite the fake story, is investigating this. How can they not?

[HumblePi]

Can I be treasurer?

I don't have a Facebook either so I want to be in the club on one condition, that I get to hold the remote control for the TV in the clubhouse during meetings. There won't be any TLC I can assure you.

[Cherrio]

Hello!  I'm the other person in North America who's never had - and never will have - a Facebook account. I guess we're a club now. Let's get jackets made! :>)

me 3

[Happyfatchick]

There was a post with a link I was interested in, but I've lost it (my computer has been acting SO ridiculous tonight!  I even switched and I'm STILL getting weirdness!) 

 

There was mention of a girl (now a woman) who'd been raised Duggaresque, and has now broken free.  And a link to her.  I clicked the link, but got a message that the link wasn't available.  (boo!)  The poster said she could help us wrap our heads around the principles of this religious belief system (my words, not the poster's).  Originally when I began on this forum - that's what I came for.  To understand it better.  All I got before we froze up was that her name was Cynthia something (the post-fundie or Gothardite), and I don't even know how far back I was!!!  If anyone remembers (or perhaps posted) please help me out.

[jschoolgirl]

There was a post with a link I was interested in, but I've lost it (my computer has been acting SO ridiculous tonight!  I even switched and I'm STILL getting weirdness!) 

 

There was mention of a girl (now a woman) who'd been raised Duggaresque, and has now broken free.  And a link to her.  I clicked the link, but got a message that the link wasn't available.  (boo!)  The poster said she could help us wrap our heads around the principles of this religious belief system (my words, not the poster's).  Originally when I began on this forum - that's what I came for.  To understand it better.  All I got before we froze up was that her name was Cynthia something (the post-fundie or Gothardite), and I don't even know how far back I was!!!  If anyone remembers (or perhaps posted) please help me out.

I think you might be referring to Cynthia Jeub.

[Sew Sumi]

I happened to be reading all these posts,(trying anyway) and came across yours with the link and I clicked on it and I honestly thought I was reading some twisted, contrived Duggar hater making this stuff up. Then, I understood. It was quoted from the Michael Seeward blog. I absolutely cannot believe this. I will, for the benefit of those who haven't taken the time to click the link since there's so much on these boards to read, post a sampling of the article.

 

"According to Seewald, only consequences keep us from acting as Duggar did when he molested five children in their beds. Seewald said that Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar “are to be commended” for their roles in covering up their son’s crimes, reporting them only to a law enforcement officer who is currently serving more than 50 years in prison for possession of photos of naked children."

 

“As it stands criminal charges were not brought against Josh but I believe that Josh’s parents acted in a way that godly parents should,” Seewald writes. After the Duggars discovered their son’s horrific actions, he was sent for treatment at a center run by a man who ultimately resigned after it was discovered that he was “sexually grooming” teens and young women."

 

"Many times it is simply lack of opportunity or fear of consequences that keep us from falling into grievous sin even though our fallen hearts would love to indulge the flesh. We should not be shocked that this occurred in the Duggar’s home, we should rather be thankful to God if we have been spared such, and pray that he would keep us and our children from falling."

 

Honest to God, if all these are true statements made by Michael Seeward, then he belongs in a nuthouse with the rest of the clan. I'm a little wary of stories that are coming out that may be erroneous and constructed specifically to inflame the court of public opinion. I will take these quotes with a grain of salt unless I actually can find them on his blog myself.

The direct quotes are indeed from Michael Seewald's blog post. It's been posted here several times, but can be found at Seewalds.com. The non-quoted information (including stuff you bolded) is from the author of the article, firstly in reference to Gothard, which is acutally only half true. The builder friend was a Gothardite, but Josh was only involved in building an ATI training center in Little Rock; he wasn't in a program run by Gothard. So yeah, that article embellished the facts just a wee bit. 

[Aethera]

Can someone explain the Oprah thing to me? So, she did interview them, filmed the show, but cancelled it?

I sincerely hope CPS, despite the fake story, is investigating this. How can they not?

 

She was going to interview them, someone anonymously notified her of the abuse, and she reported the allegation, then canceled the special.

[CofCinci]

Was the Oprah episode filmed though?

[Rhondinella]

We're very happy for all you non-Facebook-having people.  Feel free to go have the inaugural meeting of your club over in the Small Talk thread.  But not here.  Thank you.

[NikSac]

Interesting, they just had a Duggar story on Access Hollywood and the editor from In Touch (Alexander Hitchen) said "it's possible that this could have been conducted on over 20 occasions."  (referring to the forcible fondling)  He didn't say where the 20 occasions came from, though.  Access said they'll have more about it tomorrow.

 

Edited to add link: http://www.accesshollywood.com/inside-the-duggar-scandal-what-comes-next_video_2804537?utm_source=access&utm_medium=insite&utm_campaign=hero(the 20 occasions comment is at about the :30 mark)

Edited May 27, 2015 by NikSac

[Sunflowers]

Hi,

 

Ironically I discovered this thread just before all the scandal. I was fascinated to discover all the many details, and I'm glad I had a chance to read ALL OF THAT (A lot of reading), before the scandal. And that's been a full time job. This fascinates me because I see so many different things, with regard to the scandal many people are speculating that it was the isolation, or the hyper emphasis of the girls being covered, the homeschooling, the parents life style. And I'm not really seeing this at all.

 

I am profoundly deaf, and most deaf children have very limited ways of expressing these incredibly horrible things, often they're taken for granted by the deaf child as what is the perceptual experience of that child. Nowdays, deaf children have a completely different experience. But back then, things were different. Someone mentioned a book incident. Yeah, btdt. As a deaf child, I was molested countless times, beaten by teachers, brownie leaders, and always beaten and molested. Though I had the vocabulary to tell, I never did. I was so grateful to be loved by family, I was TERRIFIED that if they learned how the rest of the world treated me, they might see me with new eyes, and realize that I was this awful person, that soooooo clearly the rest of the world, and myself, saw me. I could never in a million years risked losing the love of all I had.

 

I'm PROUD of the Duggar girls for telling. I'm proud that perhaps they might see the TV show to a new life. That's empowerment. Whatever abuse occurred, these girls felt safe and loved enough to go to the parents. Was everything handled perfectly. No. But they did take some steps to rectify in a way that felt safe to them. I don't agree with the things on the show, (j slaves, gay bashing, and the hypersexualization of females. ...you know the stuff we talked about before all this. ) But bottom line, those girls were empowered and safe enough to tell! That's AWESOME. Those girls are far more savvy than they ate given credit for. ....They might just WANT tyne darn show, because it's a way to a better life.

 

As soon as they got married, they started dressing sexier, they are extremely comfortable with the female side of themselves, they do midwifery,which in its own way, empowers them again, to not fear their bodies. Yes, they often say things that are ignorant to us, but my goodness, they have only been put off the house a year. Already they are savvy. I don't think that we can presume what they think, feel, or , or how they dealt with it. Spirituality in ALL forms, to the believer (and I mean all forms, wiccan, Christianity, Buddha. ..whatever), I'd they believe their God helps them, loves them, and allowed them to move on then more power to them. I think they are freaking fabulous. Did the parents drop the ball, yeah, but you can see that they clearly tried to honor ALL the kids, including not demonizing their young son as a monster for life (which is what happens when sometimes [snip]. They were reeling from a LOT, trying to make big choices, quickly. In hindsight, yeah, it was probably more than a teen age f up, but they couldn't know yet). We cam get mad about hypocrisy, okay. But the bottom line is the girls were empowered to tell. And that a miracle. The boy was held accountable in their weird way, and that's a miracle too. These girls, I cry with admiration for their empowerment, savviness, and dignity. Let's not tear that down.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Rhondinella
added paragraph breaks; please do so in future

[Chai]

The entire premise of the show was that we followed the lives of 19 kids.  Taking Josh, and by extension Anna and the Ms out of the equation, somewhat defeats the purpose of the show.  

If they do go ahead, they will need a new name.  I'm going to throw in "1 molester who we don't talk about, 4 victims and 14 others".  For short it could just be "1+4+14" but maths isn't really a strong point for Boob and J'Chelle so maybe not. Any other suggestions?  

 

In all seriousness, I don't ever want to see Boob, J'Chelle or Josh on TV ever again.  I don't want to see them explaining their logic for not dealing with a serious crime.  I don't want to see Josh talking about how he repented.  I don't even want to see the girls talking about how they forgave him.  I want Boob and J'Chelle to step away from the cameras and do some serious soul-searching and consider how they can begin to make things right.  Starting with not allowing Josh to return to the TTH, insisting he get proper treatment and ensuring that the girls get whatever treatment or counselling they need, regardless of the cost.  

In short, I want a miracle.  

Me either! I said everything about it on the Michelle and JB thread. I agree with you, and I bet a lot more do, too. I no longer want to have anything to do with them.

[NextIteration]

When I was eleven, I stayed the night at a so-called "friend's" house. I woke up in the middle of the night to both her and her 15-year-old sister molesting me. While I can look back on it now and say those girls were likely abused, because how else would an eleven-year-old know to do that, it doesn't stop me from hating the both of them, and their parents who tried to sweep it under the rug. I was just as violated then as I was when I was molested in my sleep by my brother's best friend right before my 13th birthday (he was 16), when I was raped by a fifteen-year-old at a high school party, and when I was repeatedly bullied and sexually assaulted by one of my peers between the 9th and 11th grade. All of them fucking sucked. All of them gave me nightmares, and PTSD that I have to deal with to this very day, as a 28-year-old. I used to think I had some kind of signal I emitted that said "easy to abuse". All of these people were under 18, none faced any consequences for what they did to me. The cops deemed the first incident "sexual exploration" even though it was done to me in my fucking sleep and refused to do anything about it. And that's when I learned that the cops don't care and won't do anything to help, so I didn't even report after that, because why bother?

 

Massive hugs.  And yes, it took years for me to remove the "easy victim" tattoo that was on my forehead.  I'm not sure why it is that some of us just put it in the air so that it occurs again and again.  I'm small in stature as well, if that means anything.  I'm glad that you are getting help. ♥

 

Not sure if this has been posted yet:

https://www.yahoo.com/tv/s/three-advertisers-drop-tlcs-19-kids-counting-195351441--finance.html

 

Weee!  Excellent news!!!

 

I have to get this off my chest. I am not sure who will agree with me, but I'm going to say it anyway (and maybe blog about it because this is the 21st century and I CAN). Firstly, the whole thing is reprehensible, but what I am really upset by is the number of uber liberals who are pretty much happy this is happening. And this is coming from me, who is an uber liberal.

 

Some of my friends are offended by their religion in general, so they are pretty much excited that they are getting the boot and posting gleefully about how they get what they deserve and how they don't understand how I ever watched the show (as a woman, they asked, how could I watch a family that devalues women?) and that they are sooo happy that these "bigots" get their comeuppance. I get that people are upset about their rallying against gay rights, but they are an incredibly right-wing Christian family. Did they think they were going to somehow suddenly support gay rights? People have also been "offended" all over my newsfeed about some of the dumb things Jessa has said (i.e. athiests don't exist, etc.)...but WHAT DO THEY THINK she is going to say?!

 

I feel most sorry for the girls, because they cannot hide their name redactions. The rest of the kids also have had the rug pulled out from under them as the gravy trian has suddenly (or most probably) stopped...and I can't imagine the guilt the girls must feel (hopefully they don't, but growing up in that environment, it is up in the air). They've lost a lot in a matter of days and been publicly outed as victims when they may not have wanted to be. And people are celebrating this because they are right wing Christians and they've always "found them creepy"?!  One of my friends wrote, "I feel positively gleeful that this family and their nasty patriarchal religion are being shown the door" and "I'm starting to wonder if you really understand how vile and hurtful their beliefs are, or if you still think they're just a cute, wacky tv family."

 

Some of my family is Amish, which very easily allows for abuse of children and women because of the same-ish principles at play here. I think that's partly why I feel so sorry for the girls and why I feel as though all of this is incredibly unfair to them. I don't really care if they are bigots, they are still human beings. I would be just as upset if this were revealed in some family as truly awful as the Westboro Baptist Church clan.

 

Does any of this make sense?

 

This was the topic of a discussion with my daughter yesterday - she's mortified by some of the liberals expressing glee at the downfall of the Duggars, who seem to not be taking into consideration that it's come at a terrible cost to the victims.  Her point is that it is every bit as hypocritical as the Duggars supposedly are themselves.  And 'round and 'round it goes.

 

eta: and it does go round and round because I'm having an impossible time separating the fact that I'd have had Josh and his parents taken down by any means because of their bigoted hate mongering - and my heart breaks for the victims.

Edited May 27, 2015 by NextIteration

[Maharincess]

No I haven't submitted it anywhere. If you or anyone else wants to, feel free.

I read about it days ago. I don't think its big news. I've read it at a couple of different places.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Maharincess

[Rhondinella]

Please note that the mod note pinned at the top of the page has had an addition.  Please read and act accordingly.

[Rhondinella]

I'm PROUD of the Duggar girls for telling. I'm proud that perhaps they might see the TV show to a new life. That's empowerment. Whatever abuse occurred, these girls felt safe and loved enough to go to the parents.

 

 

Sunflowers, welcome here!  We're glad to have you.  I just wanted to respond to this because otherwise you will likely get 47 other people doing it.

 

I don't know if you've had time to read everything, as you admitted you had only recently started reading the boards, but the evidence we have at the moment SEEMS to indicate that the girls themselves did NOT tell their parents about the abuse (which is quite common with abuse cases). It was revealed initially through the letter accidentally left in a book loaned to a friend, and subsequently after an anonymous note was sent to the Oprah show and they turned it over to the police.  Had the girls told their parents before that? We can't know for certain that they didn't, but it certainly doesn't seem so.  All this is from the police report as well as interviews with the family members themselves.

 

I agree with you that if they had been empowered enough to go to their parents that would be AWESOME.  Still wouldn't mitigate the harm that was done to them, but would at least perhaps show some hope for the future.  But as of right now we have no real evidence that this is true.  Although I agree the married daughters do seem to be inching away from their parents' ways. So that might be a good sign.

 

NOTE TO EVERYONE ELSE: Please don't respond to Sunflowers saying the same thing I just did.  This is enough.

[Gemma Violet]

I remember a story my mother told me years ago.  When she was young, in the 1930s, there was a teen in town who had gone to church in a red dress.  Very scandalous for the day.  When the girl's mother found out, she was furious.  It so happens that the next day, one of their family members died.  The mother told the teen that it was her fault that the family member had died, that God was punishing the family for her wearing the red dress to church.  My mom said that the girl lived to be an old woman and never did she wear any color but black because of the guilt she felt.  

 

All this talk about these poor girls reminded me of this story.  How can a parent inflict that on a child?

Edited May 27, 2015 by Gemma Violet

[maggiemae]

I wonder what Josh is doing back in DC...packing up to return home. Can't imagine what future he has in DC......even other organizations like the FRC.

[NextIteration]

As fun as the spoof National Reporter site can be (it's a perfect imitation of HuffPost) I think it is in remarkably shitty taste to have posted that fake CPS report, but I suppose that some would think that's awesome satire.  "Too soon" and too desired for me to think it's funny at all.

[pennben]

 

I don't know if you've had time to read everything, as you admitted you had only recently started reading the boards, but the evidence we have at the moment SEEMS to indicate that the girls themselves did NOT tell their parents about the abuse (which is quite common with abuse cases).

 

I'm not sure that I agree.  According to the InTouch article that discusses the police report:

 

 

The report says that James told police he was alerted in March, 2002 by a female minor that Josh — who turned 14-years-old that month — had been touching her breasts and genitals while she slept. This allegedly happened on multiple occasions. Jim Bob told police that about nine months later in March, 2003 “there was another incident.” Josh was again accused by a female minor of touching her breasts and genitals. Josh was accused by several minors of touching their genitals, often when they slept, but at times when they were awake.

 

Granted, we don't know who the female minors were that told the father. I don't follow the show, but have been following this fall out here and there, so I may have missed something somewhere else.  Apologies if that is the case.

Edited May 27, 2015 by pennben

[Picture It. Sicily]

 

I remember a story my mother told me years ago.  When she was young, in the 1930s, there was a teen in town who had gone to church in a red dress.  Very scandalous for the day.  When the girl's mother found out, she was furious.  It so happens that the next day, one of their family members died.  The mother told the teen that it was her fault that the family member had died, that God was punishing the family for her wearing the red dress to church.  My mom said that the girl lived to be an old woman and never did she wear any color but black because of the guilt she felt. 

All this talk about these poor girls reminded me of this story.  How can a parent inflict that on a child?

My mother went to Catholic school in the sixties. The nun who taught her grade passed away over the summer. Mother Superior came in on the first day of class and told the students that they had killed her with their 'terrible' behavior. My mother laughed when she told me this story, but I can't help but think that a part of her carried that guilt with her. Words are very powerful and when you attach god to it, like the Duggars do, it can be devastating to a child who believes in every word the adults in their lives say.

[zenme]

I wonder what Josh is doing back in DC...packing up to return home. Can't imagine what future he has in DC......even other organizations like the FRC.

 

I'm guessing the Duggar clan won't be going to Maryland to pack up Josh and family, nor will a Bates child be sent to help...Maybe Josh will have a moving company pack up his Hobby Lobby "Family" plaques, and dirty mattresses and have them sent to his new abode in Arkansas.  As for FRC, I'm thinking Josh won't be getting obligatory farewell cake and party?

[ChicksDigScars]

OK. That? I can tell you is a huge deal. Because Behr is Home Depot is Ken Langone, who recently let it be known that if the new pope didn't stop being less right wing than the previous pope (and keep in mind, up to this point he said we had to do everything the pope said because he was the pope), american billionaires were going to stop donating.

If Ken Langone bailed on patriarchal PR, things have gotten real. Except for things, read more digestive things. I am a Depot girl and a huge Behr fan. I spend a lot of money there and also bought a lot of paint. Best paint ever so I am happy about this. Since I have decided to not watch TLC at all anymore, I will boycott all sponsors.

 

[snip]

 

Even more than Home Depot giving the Duggars the heave ho, the biggest one for me is General Mills. Holy crap. That's a HUGE loss. When I heard that General Mills pulled their sponsorship, I thought, "It's over, Jim Bob."

 

I keep thinking of the movie Private Parts: 

 

"We just lost Stereo City. This is not Muffler Man. This is Stereo-fucking-City."

"You know there's gonna be other sponsors....."

"No, there's not, Jim Bob, 'cause your career is over. You're finished."

Edited May 27, 2015 by Rhondinella
off topic

[Sunflowers]

I'm not sure that I agree. According to the InTouch article that discusses the police report:

Granted, we don't know who the female minors were that told the father. I don't follow the show, but have been following this fall out here and there, so I may have missed something somewhere else. Apologies if that is the case.

[Sunflowers]

Yes, that's what confused me, too! And I deeply apologize if I'm confused. But we, in the nine zillion posts,plus links, plus, police reports, plus this "Alice," I mean it goes on and on. And, while I understand the time line distinctly, and I understand all about Harpo, Oprah, posible TLC cover up. The mysterious letter in the book...... BUT, I also. Am almost certain that I read one girl told, the parents kinda blew that off, and I can truly understand that, in this day and age of over the top criminalization. I mean, okay. ...but then, about a year later, the other girls told. Now, it's NOT one little incident, it's a behavior, And no parent should ever ignore that, and that was when Josh, was sent away. To be honest, After that, then comes the trip to Oprah, and then letter is then sent to Oprah. So my understanding is that those girls told. I'm not trying to defend this by any means, I'm just seeing those girls has being way more empowered than anyone is giving them credit for. I kind of think, well thank God, TLC was in the house all those years, it certainly had to have some influence in behaving better, it gave the girls a remarkable education in marketing, promotion. Yes, sexual abuse is horrific. I'm not diminishing that, I'm not saying it's not a big deal. My life was destroyed by my childhood. But I was incredibly isolated, they weren't isolated, I was one child, all alone. They had each other, they for a better opportunity and life, by growing up with the opportunities that TLC gave them. I laugh when they say Nike, because it's almost as though they DO think their brother's are pathetic horn dogs. I would hold accountable is ANNA, because now that there is at very least, a behavior, she cannot, should not EVER raise those girls around him. But those girls, I see them as way more empowered than we think. And different people do have differential coping skills, ways of processing trauma, through spiritual beliefs, and if they are just now beginning the best part of their lives, their love, passions, journey to learn, explore. ....after all these years. Who are we to define their experience, which we really, don't know.

[Muffyn]

The suggestion from the accounts is that one girl told, not each of them.  When the book incident happened, an older girl saw what pervo Josh was doing and reported it to their parents.  

[Sunflowers]

Look at it from Jessa's point. Abuse or no abuse, whether the parents are mysogonistic, homophobic, evangelists, using the show to push an agenda or not. ..It's all irrelevant now. It's done. Clearly these people are the most famous/infamous people in America at the moment. Depending on if you love them or hate them. But, here she spent all those years SLAVING over those, kids, marketing herself through You Tube, she gets the wedding. .. Actually DOES get pregnant, but had to keep it a secret, so Jill, can have her moment, because she sure deserves it, they work in tandem, that to me, shows a highly strategic move by both of these girls in understanding maejeting, promotion A. Way. Out. ..And, NOW, with all those years of this. ...to yank the show away from her, Jana, the other girls, BECAUSE OF WHAT SOME JERK DID ALREADY? SO now we torture the girls twice, by taking away the one good, empowering, franchise those girls have? Because whatever our feelings were about raising kids in the show, we've given those girls a marketing kingdom. And they clearly I know how to use social media marketing. Who cares what Josh thinks, let him rot. Who cares what the parents think. But, the one thing we all agree on, I hope, is not torturing the girls twice, because of the family, the guy. But by taking away the show, we are now taking away Jessa's, Jill's moment to shine, spread their wings after all those years dreaming of this moment to be free. And who knows what they will be like in a few years. My beliefs were not the same when I started college. I was naive. And we just took it all away. TWICE. BECAUSE OF WHAT THE GUY DID. So... she, the girls, who have inadvertly been groomed for this all their lives. The GIRLS pay the price. Twice. How's that not horrific? Hate them, love them, but that show, TLC is the younger girls best protection in the home, NOW, and, future. Because, this is beyond some social worker, beyond criminalization, and beyond our own agendas and politics, it is beyond our control. If what we really, truly care about, is those girls, then why punish them twice, for someone else's behavior, and a lifetime of events beyond all of our control, and theirs, that had now become their greatest gift to get out, to learn, to decide what they want. It's like raping the victim twice, through the legal system, the guy still goes free, and now we've ruined their reputation, because of someone else's deeds. That's messed up. It's not about politics, not about what happens to Josh. That's come and gone. Now it's about salvaging the chance for income, eeducation, freedom, the moment to be their own selves, in the sun, free. For. The. Girls.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Sunflowers

[lilabennet]

Even more than Home Depot giving the Duggars the heave ho, the biggest one for me is General Mills. Holy crap. That's a HUGE loss. When I heard that General Mills pulled their sponsorship, I thought, "It's over, Jim Bob."

 

I keep thinking of the movie Private Parts: 

 

"We just lost Stereo City. This is not Muffler Man. This is Stereo-fucking-City."

"You know there's gonna be other sponsors....."

"No, there's not, Jim Bob, 'cause your career is over. You're finished."

Given General Mills' pro-LGBT stance, you would think that JimBob wouldn't want their sponsorship associated with his show.  I guess his convictions don't extend to denying his pocketbook ready cash.

[shannon612]

Just saw that alot of the sponsors are bailing out on the show. But do you think TLC would still show the new season since it is already taped? Because I hate to admit it but I really wanted to see it..

[ElectricBoogaloo]

When they cancelled Honey Boo Boo, they had already shot some of the new season and those episodes were never aired.

[Micks Picks]

But where will we go, what will we do with our time if we don't have the show to snark on and each other to visit?  I have often been kind of down and burst out laughing at a comment made.  And the last few days, I've been wide awake, eyes scratchy, reading away, and making horrible typing mistakes.  I really like the posters here.

[Darknight]

Maybe JimChelle or Joshanna will leave the country for a few months til this passes over.

[Julia]

When they cancelled Honey Boo Boo, they had already shot some of the new season and those episodes were never aired.

I think the response to the idea of abusers, or people who allowed abuse to go on, profiting from the exploitation of children is visceral enough for most people out there that they more or less have to bail the way they did with Honey Boo Boo. The number of people who have heard about this now dwarves the number who actually watched the Duggars, or even the channel they're shown on.

I suspect that the parent company, which has dozens of other channels to consider, are going to have to make this go away before viewers of, say, the aspirant Discovery-branded channels or their many overseas channels in socially conservative countries are exposed to the particular form of social narrowcasting they specialize in on TLC.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Julia

[CofCinci]

But where will we go, what will we do with our time if we don't have the show to snark on and each other to visit? I have often been kind of down and burst out laughing at a comment made. And the last few days, I've been wide awake, eyes scratchy, reading away, and making horrible typing mistakes. I really like the posters here.

We can't snark on this family anymore, which was, sadly, something I enjoyed. I have a high stress job and coming here/TWoP to read and post hilarious comments was one way to ground myself after intense sessions (I'm a psychotherapist with the VA, who helps process Afghanistan and Iraq trauma all day). Bin is now Ben. JoylessAnna will never be used again. We no longer think of Jana as an old maid. Michelle's Xanax state has more meaning now. Can't even joke about them wearing their full street clothes to bed because now we understand why they do so. We are now post-snark. Post-schadenfreude. They're a real family now with real pain and it's not fun to dwell in that space. For years they kept up a holier than thou facade but in reality, they're like so many American families, whether they're ready to admit it or not.

Le roi est mort, vive le roi !

On to the Kody Brown and his 3/4 wives! Wet bar of tears, snark buddies.

[becca3891]

If the fundie men supposedly have no self-control, are constantly at risk for succumbing to temptation, and aren't expected to take any responsibility for their actions, it seems asinine that the fundie women should look to them as "leaders" and headships. Why follow someone so weak?

Excellent point. I once asked a (fundie) pastor a similar question and got a horrifying response. Basically, he said that women, through Eve, ruined God's plan of a perfect man. So the man is still superior even though he has been made weak in this area because of the sin of Eve,who was tempted by the serpent. Again, it's all viewed through the lens that personhood, by default is male, and that women sort of exist also, but in a secondhand kind of way. 

 

I think all of the older ones have A GED. Jessa might be the only one with a HS diploma, though.

When you're homeschooled, the only kind of diploma you can get is a GED. Your parents might print something out for you, but it doesn't really mean anything.

I don't know if you've had time to read everything, as you admitted you had only recently started reading the boards, but the evidence we have at the moment SEEMS to indicate that the girls themselves did NOT tell their parents about the abuse (which is quite common with abuse cases). 

Actually, page 14 of the police report makes it very clear that one of the daughters went to Jim Bob in March 2002, crying and saying she had witnessed abuse. According to the report, this was how Jim Bob first became aware of it, and the letter of unknown origin (probably a church elder) was written later, after Josh confessed and Jim Bob told the elders about it. Not to criticize, because you moderators do a great job, but this is a rather important point and the OP was right that it was one of the daughters who blew the whistle.

Edited May 27, 2015 by becca3891